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Polls Show Many Voters Voted Based On Religious, Moral Beliefs; Iran Hostage Crisis Anniversary; Falluja Assault Likely To Be Guerrilla Warfare; Entertainment News
Aired November 04, 2004 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Famous mantra -- the Clinton campaign a dozen years ago, you remember it -- "It's the economy, stupid." Well, maybe it's really something more divine than that. Polls show many based their vote this go around on their long-held religious and moral beliefs.
CNN's senior analyst Jeff Greenfield reports on the importance of values in voting.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST (voice-over): So, what was on the voters' minds Tuesday? Was it terrorism? The war in Iraq? The economy? No -- if the exit polls are right, more than one in five voters said that moral values was the most important issue, and by an astonishing 80 to 18 margin, they voted for President Bush.
DICK CHENEY (R), VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the president of the United States.
GREENFIELD: This may be the most important factor in the president's reelection -- a long-term movement of voters from traditional policy voting -- taxes, education, healthcare, foreign policy -- to a less defined, but powerful inclination, to vote for candidates who share their fundamental views of right and wrong, vice and virtue.
You can see this in sharp division in recent years on so-called religiosity. Voters who went to church once a week or more voted 61- 39 for the president. Those who never went voted even more strongly, 62-36, for Kerry. Those married with children, considered more likely to worry over the moral climate, went very big for Bush.
The political consequences are also clear geographically. Small- town and rural voters, who once voted Democratic on economic grounds, have migrated strongly to the GOP because of values.
Missouri is a prime example. John Kerry won in St. Louis and nearby St. Louis County by margins big enough to have given the Democrat the state in past years. But this time, a huge vote in rural areas pushed the state to Bush.
Ohio saw a similar pattern. Kerry got the votes he wanted in Democratic strongholds, but an enormous turnout elsewhere delivered the state, and thus the White House, to Bush. The president's embrace of the values theme in the campaign was long planned and specific, to push the Democrats out of the mainstream by heeding the specific issues where most Americans were in agreement -- not the broad abortion issue, but a narrower target.
GEORGE W. BUSH (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I signed the ban on partial-birth abortion. It's a brutal practice.
GREENFIELD: Not an attack on gays, but a live and let live approach along with a specific stand on one big issue.
BUSH: Marriage between a man and a woman is the ideal. And the job of the president is to drive policy toward the ideal.
GREENFIELD: Not so incidentally, gay marriage bans were on the ballot in 11 states, helping to draw out social conservatives. All passed.
For years, Democrats have argued that values orders (ph) could be wooed back to the party with an economic message -- healthcare, better schools, job security. But the evidence from campaigns seems to show that if voters don't see you sharing at least some of their attitudes on fundamental values, they will not even let you in the door to sell your economic wares. There's no bigger dilemma for the Democratic party than this one.
Jeff Greenfield, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Well, with the end of this election, we also remember a historic and disastrous period of a previous administration.
Twenty-five years ago today, the Iran hostage crisis began while President Jimmy Carter was in office. On November 4th, 1979, hundreds of young, radical Iranians stormed the U.S. Embassy in Tehran, spurred on by their fundamentalist cleric Ayatollah Khomeini. The radicals blamed the U.S. for supporting the Shah that their revolution ousted. They wanted the Shah returned to stand trial and planned to use American hostages as their pawns of negotiation.
For the next 444 days, rifle-carrying Iranians stood guard outside a U.S. embassy-turned-prison. Fifty-two Americans found themselves hostages of the Muslim extremists. Many were beaten and paraded in front of mobs. Their release would not come until President Reagan's administration in 1981.
But in April of 1980, a secret Delta Force mission would seek to free those hostages. Retired Sergeant Eric Haney was part of that mission. He's also the author of "Inside Delta Force: The Story of America's Elite Counterterror Unit." Joins us to talk more about this.
Let's go back. Delta Force was just formed. The embassy had been taken over already once before. You went into seclusion. Take us from there.
SGT. ERIC HANEY, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Yes. Well, we started planning for this operation, not knowing how that it would resolve itself eventually. Obviously, all the first efforts, as they should be, are -- used diplomacy, tried to seek a peaceful ends to this. The military option is always that final option when nothing else has worked.
Great difficulty, though. Difficult from an intelligence point of view. We had no intelligence inside Iran. The CIA would not put agents in to help us with the critical intelligence that we required. We wound up getting one of our own men inside the country eventually.
And then, it was: How are we going to get into the country? That's a long way to go. How do we penetrate in the nation? How do we get up next to the embassy?
The easier part of the whole mission would be the attack on the embassy, to kill the terrorists, recapture our hostages, get them out of the embassy. But then, the last hard part would have been getting them back out of Iran at that point.
PHILLIPS: Now, you were convinced all these hostages would die?
HANEY: No, we weren't convinced of that.
PHILLIPS: No?
HANEY: No. We never -- that possibility always exists, certainly did, because the threat was there. And that was the ultimate threat -- we'll kill these people; we'll start killing them.
We really felt what would take place was that they would be placed on a show trial.
PHILLIPS: Did you even understand Islamic terrorism then like we know it now?
HANEY: We were getting the feel for it, but it had transformed. Up until then, terrorism, as it had been expressed against the United States, was Palestinian-based in their conflict with Israel. And it was the attempt to force the Americans to do things that would influence the Israelis.
This right here, the Iranian revolution and what was instituted at that point, was the fundamental root of Islamic terrorism as it is expressed up until this day.
PHILLIPS: I want to ask you about that in a minute, but just let's go back for just of minutes here. All hell broke loose, just to put it bluntly. What happened? I mean, you made it to Iran, but your aircraft crashed. There were -- there are men dead on the ground. What went wrong?
HANEY: Yes. The basis of it was that we had two elements of transportation getting into the country. Air Force C-130s -- we flew into the desert at a location known as Desert 1. And at that point, the helicopters, which had launched from a Navy carrier, would meet us in the night, would be refueled from the C-130 refuel birds, and from there we would move forward by helicopter the rest of the night. And then, as we got closer in, we would go into the embassy in covered trucks.
The helicopters were the weak link in this whole operation. They'd never able to perform their missions. The crews were unfamiliar with, not only the aircraft to a certain extent, but this type of flying that was demanded. And then, on the night that we penetrated, we flew in, the assault force, landed in the desert, and the helicopters went through an atmospheric phenomenon called a haboob. It's just a huge dust storm of extremely fine dust -- it's like powder.
And lot of them lost their way. They had troubles with navigation, and it was so unnerving that they were pretty well done in by the time they arrived at our location, and also much late.
PHILLIPS: So, this rescue attempt, it failed. It was pretty much a disaster.
HANEY: At that point, yes.
PHILLIPS: At that point...
HANEY: It had not completely fallen apart yet.
PHILLIPS: And then, it was a matter of time later, Reagan is voted into office, some time of deal of struck, the hostages are freed.
HANEY: Yes.
PHILLIPS: From that point on, we never really found out what kind of deal was struck, but you were told, as a Delta Force guy, that it was hands off. You couldn't do anything about Iranians at that point, is that right?
HANEY: Let's look at it from this perspective. This is just the reality of it.
The terrorist threat and the terrorist actions that were enacted against the United States and United States' interests until the advent of al Qaeda were sponsored by the revolutionary governor of Iran, principally often through its surrogates Hezbollah and Hamas. They are the ones who blew up the United States embassy in Beirut, that blew up the American Marine barracks in Beirut, killing, you know, several hundred men.
Captured -- kidnapped, captured, and executed CIA chief of station in Lebanon. Captured and executed a Marine Colonel Higgins during all this period. Sponsored taking of aircraft. In no instance, none of these did the United States ever make any type of effort to bring this to heal, to bring it to a halt to the point we have been on missions and things enacted, and we were called off of it.
So, it's inexplicable.
PHILLIPS: Eric Haney, interesting. Thank you so much.
HANEY: Certainly.
PHILLIPS: We want to continue the discussion definitely, though, and that is the fact that the Iran hostage crisis would begin an era, like Eric Haney said, of Islamic fundamentalism that would lead to future terrorism such as 9/11. And that crisis also forever changed how Iran is now viewed internationally.
President Bush continues to call that nation part of an axis of evil. Joining me now, Iranian journalist Shirzad Bozorgmehr. It's pretty interesting to look back now, 25 years. What's the word in Iran now? Are they talking about the hostage crisis today?
SHIRZAD BOZORGMEHR, IRANIAN JOURNALIST: They are on occasions, especially on the anniversary on Wednesday, and on several occasions during the Friday prayers.
It's a rallying point whenever there is lack of political support or waning of political support. This is one thing that most Iranians rally around -- or at least the conservative Iranians rally around. And this is what happened again this year. The only difference this year was that this was the first year the Iranian so-called fundamentalists are in -- practically in total power. The only thing that they don't have is the cabinet, the executive branch -- which they will soon capture, as well. So, the rest of it is just repetition of years ago.
PHILLIPS: So, you look at what Eric Haney said and the concern on behalf of the military and the U.S. government at time, and that this hostage crisis spurred a growth in Islamic terrorism. Now Bush continuing to call Iran part of the axis of evil. What is the Iranian reaction now to bush and his reelection?
BOZORGMEHR: There isn't much reaction, because as far as I can tell, election of -- reelection of President Bush is a win-win situation for Iran. If he was -- now that he's elected, they can always rally support, because they see him as a threat. So, they can tell the Iranian people that there's a foreign threat. And if there is any dissension in Iran, it would disappear, and they would rally around the flag because of that.
And if he had lost, it would still be the same. So, it really did not affect or would not affect Iran's domestic policies add all.
PHILLIPS: Is Iran concerned that the U.S. may invade Iran?
BOZORGMEHR: Not really, no. They're more concerned about the possibility of Israel attacking Iran, because Israel has a history of doing that. They did it to us in Iraq before. So, there's a precedent for it. But they feel that -- from what I gather, they feel that the United States Army is already overextended in Afghanistan and Iraq, and they are not doing a very good job. So, they don't want to take an added burden, especially with Iran, which is a country bigger than both of those countries, has a great military capability, and has proven in a war of attrition that it can support itself and it stand its own ground.
So, it's not going to be as easy as Iraq or Afghanistan.
PHILLIPS: But I think it will be interesting from a military standpoint -- Eric Haney -- also from a journalistic standpoint to watch the relations between the U.S. and Iran. Shirzad, thank you for your time today.
BOZORGMEHR: Thank you.
PHILLIPS: Well, joining forces in Falluja -- U.S. Air Force troops and Marines still launching hit-and-run attacks ahead of what now seems an imminent preelection offensive. Marines say that several enemy positions were blown away in overnight airstrikes. Hospital officials say that two people were killed on the outskirts. Troops are brushing on the warfare reminiscent of Somalia, Chechnya, even Vietnam.
CNN's Karl Penhaul has more. He's with the Marines.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey Doug, make sure you hang out behind me a little bit so I can give you some cover.
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Getting ready to storm out of desert and into an urban jungle. An assault on Falluja promises to be a close-quarters street fight. Marine infantrymen in tanks will have to work in harmony against rebel fighters in buildings and hidden alleys.
SGT. MICHAEL CHAMBERS, U.S. MARINE CORPS.: That's what's kind of scary. You're rolling right by thinking it's secure, and then they pop up off that rooftop behind you, and then here comes an RPG.
PENHAUL: Remote-controlled explosives and suicide car bombs are likely to be major threats.
(on camera): The history books recall how some of the world's most powerful armies became bogged down in urban guerrilla warfare -- Kuwait City, Vietnam, Mogadishu, Somalia, Grozny, Chechnya.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guerrilla warfare is dirty business. The defender initially has the advantage because he knows the terrain much better than the attacker. If the defender is able to use his defense to his advantage, the attacker will be slowed and have to reorient his offense.
PENHAUL (voice-over): When the Marines roll in, insurgent gunmen could be lurking in any window or doorway. Armored vehicles and tanks will become magnets for attack.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to be looking for an RPG fire from the rooftops and intersections and stuff like that, make sure we don't hit any tank mine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Charge three!
PENHAUL: Mortar crews run through drills.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Elevation!
UNIDENTIFIED MALES: Elevation!
PENHAUL: Inside the city, they could, if needed, lob charges over buildings or onto rooftops to destroy concealed insurgent positions.
This explosives team is measuring out detonation cord. Depending on how they tie the knot, they can blow out door and race in to clear a potential insurgent hideout.
Intelligence suggests Falluja's defenders may have rigged buildings with homemade bombs.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will it cause us to maybe slow down our attack a little bit because we have to take into count all these kids of obstacles as far as booby traps? Yeah. But will it cause us to not be able to complete mission? Absolutely not.
PENHAUL: U.S. commanders say the keys to victory in Falluja are moving fast and coordinating their weapons on the ground and in the air -- a battlefield where Marine and machine works as one.
Karl Penhaul, CNN, near Falluja.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: The first-ever felony prosecution for spammers. Coming up, how much prison time a pair of e-mail spammers face for illegally sending out millions of spam messages.
SIBILA VARGAS, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: I'm Sibila Vargas from Hollywood. A comedy fundraiser turns political as one famous funnyman throws a few punches at the presidential election. I'll have the whole story when CNN's LIVE FROM continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Well, comedy might be making a comeback on the networks. Elton John and the folks behind "Saturday Night Live" may have something to do with that. CNN's entertainment correspondent Sibila Vargas explains in our Hollywood headlines. She joins us live from L.A. Hi, Sibila.
VARGAS: Hey, Miles. That's right. The rumors are swirling about a new reality show that would give Donald Trump a run for his money. This time, the reported would-be mogul is "Saturday Night Live" executive Lorne Michaels. The famed producer is said to be working on his own reality competition.
The supposed "SNL" project would follow a group of comedians vying for a grand prize, which is believed to be a role on the long- running sketch comedy show. However, we called "Saturday Night Live" directly, and they say there's no offer, no deal, no order, and likely no show in the works. So, Miles, it looks like the Donald can put away his running shoes, at least for now, Miles.
O'BRIEN: All right, at least for now. What about Elton John? There's this whole scenario, perhaps -- or there might be some sort of sitcom -- conventional scripted sitcom involving Elton John of all people?
VARGAS: That's right. Elton John fans will be glad to learn that the musical Brit is lacing up his own running shoes for a new comedy. The rock legend is said to be working on an sitcom for ABC about an aging rock star and the people that surround him.
Now, John says the show is not necessarily based on himself, but rather a mix of other male divas, like Rod Stewart, Mick Jagger, and David Bowie.
And speaking of legends of the stage, some of comedy's heavy hitters turned out last night at L.A.'s International Cultural Center to partake in Buddy Hackett's Sixth Annual Night of Comedy. Now, the event is an annual fundraiser for Buddy Hackett's Singita Animal Sanctuary. And while animals were definitely on the brain, so was the election.
JAY MOHR, COMEDIAN: You know, you look at map of the blue and the red, it looks like someone stabbed Mexico and Canada to death. And apparently people that voted for John Kerry, kind of in the minority. The guy won. The guy won by a lot. He won the popular vote. He won the electoral votes. And if, you know, you got to sweat out New Hampshire and you're from Massachusetts, you can't deliver North Carolina and your vice president is from there? Come on.
VARGAS: Tough words from comedian Jay Mohr. But all joking aside, most of the celebrities we spoke to agreed that America made its decision, and it was definitely time to move forward.
O'BRIEN: All right. Jay Mohr better not quit his -- I guess for him it's a night job. I don't know if political analyst is going to work for him. All right. Sibila Vargas, thanks very much. Good to see you -- Kyra?
PHILLIPS: Well, coming up, a pair of e-mail spammers face prison time. What's the sentence in the first ever felony convictions for e- mail spam?
Also, a check of Wall Street and what's pushing markets higher. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: All right, spam. One of your favorite subjects. Kyra comes to me every day: How can I get them to stop sending me this?
PHILLIPS: Rhonda, ever since the elections began, Miles and I -- hundreds, hundreds a day. We're on a mass spam list.
O'BRIEN: Well, it's ever so nice to hear from folks and have them share their opinions and then sell us all kinds of things to make things larger, if you know what I mean.
But you know, the truth is I hope there's a special place in hell for them. I really do. Rhonda, tell us what...
RHONDA SCHAFFLER, CNN SR. BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: I wouldn't go that far, but there's a place in prison for at least one of them, if that makes you feel any better, Miles and Kyra.
A brother and sister team who sent junk e-mail to millions of America Online customers have been convicted now in the nation's first felony prosecution of spam distributors. The jury recommended a fine of $7,500 for the sister, and the brother got nine years in prison.
Prosecutors said that the two amassed a net wealth of $24 million peddling worthless products like the refund processor and an Internet history eraser. Case is prosecuted in Virginia under a law that took effect last year. That law prevents people from sending unsolicited bulk e-mail -- Kyra, Miles?
O'BRIEN: What was that saying -- one and get it done? Or one and it be done?
PHILLIPS: One and done.
SCHAFFLER: One and not...
O'BRIEN: So, is it two and be through or...
SCHAFFLER: Let's hope not.
O'BRIEN: Oh, no. OK, tell us what...
SCHAFFLER: But we are seeing day two of very, very strong gains here. And it's been a while since we've had consistent back to back rallies.
Got one today, a follow-up from the Bush-inspired rally yesterday. Also, some relief once again on the oil front. Oil prices sliding $2 below $49 now. So, all of this is helping to lift stocks in a very big way. The Dow surges 146 points. Nasdaq up three- quarters of a percent.
And that is the very latest from Wall Street. Kyra, Miles, see you later.
O'BRIEN: Thanks, Rhonda. See you tomorrow.
That wraps up the Thursday edition of LIVE FROM.
PHILLIPS: Now to take us through the next 90 minutes of political headlines, "JUDY WOODRUFF INSIDE POLITICS." Hi, Judy. Did you get any sleep last night?
JUDY WOODRUFF, HOST, "INSIDE POLITICS": Well, a little bit. A little bit. Looking forward to the weekend.
O'BRIEN: All right. You deserve a rest.
PHILLIPS: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: You did a great job.
WOODRUFF: Thank you both. We appreciate it. Thank you.
Well, you both know, the president has already begun to look ahead to his next term. We'll have a live report from the White House. And we'll look at what the Bush campaign did right to win themselves this election and four more years.
Plus, a new balance of power in the Senate. We'll look at the new makeup and what the president says he hopes to do with it.
"INSIDE POLITICS" begins in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Checking stories now in the news for you.
Sources are telling CNN Yasser Arafat isn't registering things, recognizing people, or even speaking. Arafat's condition has deteriorated, and he is gravely ill in France. CNN's "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" will have more at 5:00 Eastern.
And an attack kills three British soldiers recently moved closer to Baghdad to help back up U.S. forces. The three were members of the Black Watch regiment, which until last week was in the relatively peaceful southern portion of Iraq. An Iraqi translator also killed in that attack.
I'm Miles O'Brien. now, "JUDY WOODRUFF'S INSIDE POLITICS."
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Aired November 4, 2004 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Famous mantra -- the Clinton campaign a dozen years ago, you remember it -- "It's the economy, stupid." Well, maybe it's really something more divine than that. Polls show many based their vote this go around on their long-held religious and moral beliefs.
CNN's senior analyst Jeff Greenfield reports on the importance of values in voting.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST (voice-over): So, what was on the voters' minds Tuesday? Was it terrorism? The war in Iraq? The economy? No -- if the exit polls are right, more than one in five voters said that moral values was the most important issue, and by an astonishing 80 to 18 margin, they voted for President Bush.
DICK CHENEY (R), VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the president of the United States.
GREENFIELD: This may be the most important factor in the president's reelection -- a long-term movement of voters from traditional policy voting -- taxes, education, healthcare, foreign policy -- to a less defined, but powerful inclination, to vote for candidates who share their fundamental views of right and wrong, vice and virtue.
You can see this in sharp division in recent years on so-called religiosity. Voters who went to church once a week or more voted 61- 39 for the president. Those who never went voted even more strongly, 62-36, for Kerry. Those married with children, considered more likely to worry over the moral climate, went very big for Bush.
The political consequences are also clear geographically. Small- town and rural voters, who once voted Democratic on economic grounds, have migrated strongly to the GOP because of values.
Missouri is a prime example. John Kerry won in St. Louis and nearby St. Louis County by margins big enough to have given the Democrat the state in past years. But this time, a huge vote in rural areas pushed the state to Bush.
Ohio saw a similar pattern. Kerry got the votes he wanted in Democratic strongholds, but an enormous turnout elsewhere delivered the state, and thus the White House, to Bush. The president's embrace of the values theme in the campaign was long planned and specific, to push the Democrats out of the mainstream by heeding the specific issues where most Americans were in agreement -- not the broad abortion issue, but a narrower target.
GEORGE W. BUSH (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I signed the ban on partial-birth abortion. It's a brutal practice.
GREENFIELD: Not an attack on gays, but a live and let live approach along with a specific stand on one big issue.
BUSH: Marriage between a man and a woman is the ideal. And the job of the president is to drive policy toward the ideal.
GREENFIELD: Not so incidentally, gay marriage bans were on the ballot in 11 states, helping to draw out social conservatives. All passed.
For years, Democrats have argued that values orders (ph) could be wooed back to the party with an economic message -- healthcare, better schools, job security. But the evidence from campaigns seems to show that if voters don't see you sharing at least some of their attitudes on fundamental values, they will not even let you in the door to sell your economic wares. There's no bigger dilemma for the Democratic party than this one.
Jeff Greenfield, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Well, with the end of this election, we also remember a historic and disastrous period of a previous administration.
Twenty-five years ago today, the Iran hostage crisis began while President Jimmy Carter was in office. On November 4th, 1979, hundreds of young, radical Iranians stormed the U.S. Embassy in Tehran, spurred on by their fundamentalist cleric Ayatollah Khomeini. The radicals blamed the U.S. for supporting the Shah that their revolution ousted. They wanted the Shah returned to stand trial and planned to use American hostages as their pawns of negotiation.
For the next 444 days, rifle-carrying Iranians stood guard outside a U.S. embassy-turned-prison. Fifty-two Americans found themselves hostages of the Muslim extremists. Many were beaten and paraded in front of mobs. Their release would not come until President Reagan's administration in 1981.
But in April of 1980, a secret Delta Force mission would seek to free those hostages. Retired Sergeant Eric Haney was part of that mission. He's also the author of "Inside Delta Force: The Story of America's Elite Counterterror Unit." Joins us to talk more about this.
Let's go back. Delta Force was just formed. The embassy had been taken over already once before. You went into seclusion. Take us from there.
SGT. ERIC HANEY, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Yes. Well, we started planning for this operation, not knowing how that it would resolve itself eventually. Obviously, all the first efforts, as they should be, are -- used diplomacy, tried to seek a peaceful ends to this. The military option is always that final option when nothing else has worked.
Great difficulty, though. Difficult from an intelligence point of view. We had no intelligence inside Iran. The CIA would not put agents in to help us with the critical intelligence that we required. We wound up getting one of our own men inside the country eventually.
And then, it was: How are we going to get into the country? That's a long way to go. How do we penetrate in the nation? How do we get up next to the embassy?
The easier part of the whole mission would be the attack on the embassy, to kill the terrorists, recapture our hostages, get them out of the embassy. But then, the last hard part would have been getting them back out of Iran at that point.
PHILLIPS: Now, you were convinced all these hostages would die?
HANEY: No, we weren't convinced of that.
PHILLIPS: No?
HANEY: No. We never -- that possibility always exists, certainly did, because the threat was there. And that was the ultimate threat -- we'll kill these people; we'll start killing them.
We really felt what would take place was that they would be placed on a show trial.
PHILLIPS: Did you even understand Islamic terrorism then like we know it now?
HANEY: We were getting the feel for it, but it had transformed. Up until then, terrorism, as it had been expressed against the United States, was Palestinian-based in their conflict with Israel. And it was the attempt to force the Americans to do things that would influence the Israelis.
This right here, the Iranian revolution and what was instituted at that point, was the fundamental root of Islamic terrorism as it is expressed up until this day.
PHILLIPS: I want to ask you about that in a minute, but just let's go back for just of minutes here. All hell broke loose, just to put it bluntly. What happened? I mean, you made it to Iran, but your aircraft crashed. There were -- there are men dead on the ground. What went wrong?
HANEY: Yes. The basis of it was that we had two elements of transportation getting into the country. Air Force C-130s -- we flew into the desert at a location known as Desert 1. And at that point, the helicopters, which had launched from a Navy carrier, would meet us in the night, would be refueled from the C-130 refuel birds, and from there we would move forward by helicopter the rest of the night. And then, as we got closer in, we would go into the embassy in covered trucks.
The helicopters were the weak link in this whole operation. They'd never able to perform their missions. The crews were unfamiliar with, not only the aircraft to a certain extent, but this type of flying that was demanded. And then, on the night that we penetrated, we flew in, the assault force, landed in the desert, and the helicopters went through an atmospheric phenomenon called a haboob. It's just a huge dust storm of extremely fine dust -- it's like powder.
And lot of them lost their way. They had troubles with navigation, and it was so unnerving that they were pretty well done in by the time they arrived at our location, and also much late.
PHILLIPS: So, this rescue attempt, it failed. It was pretty much a disaster.
HANEY: At that point, yes.
PHILLIPS: At that point...
HANEY: It had not completely fallen apart yet.
PHILLIPS: And then, it was a matter of time later, Reagan is voted into office, some time of deal of struck, the hostages are freed.
HANEY: Yes.
PHILLIPS: From that point on, we never really found out what kind of deal was struck, but you were told, as a Delta Force guy, that it was hands off. You couldn't do anything about Iranians at that point, is that right?
HANEY: Let's look at it from this perspective. This is just the reality of it.
The terrorist threat and the terrorist actions that were enacted against the United States and United States' interests until the advent of al Qaeda were sponsored by the revolutionary governor of Iran, principally often through its surrogates Hezbollah and Hamas. They are the ones who blew up the United States embassy in Beirut, that blew up the American Marine barracks in Beirut, killing, you know, several hundred men.
Captured -- kidnapped, captured, and executed CIA chief of station in Lebanon. Captured and executed a Marine Colonel Higgins during all this period. Sponsored taking of aircraft. In no instance, none of these did the United States ever make any type of effort to bring this to heal, to bring it to a halt to the point we have been on missions and things enacted, and we were called off of it.
So, it's inexplicable.
PHILLIPS: Eric Haney, interesting. Thank you so much.
HANEY: Certainly.
PHILLIPS: We want to continue the discussion definitely, though, and that is the fact that the Iran hostage crisis would begin an era, like Eric Haney said, of Islamic fundamentalism that would lead to future terrorism such as 9/11. And that crisis also forever changed how Iran is now viewed internationally.
President Bush continues to call that nation part of an axis of evil. Joining me now, Iranian journalist Shirzad Bozorgmehr. It's pretty interesting to look back now, 25 years. What's the word in Iran now? Are they talking about the hostage crisis today?
SHIRZAD BOZORGMEHR, IRANIAN JOURNALIST: They are on occasions, especially on the anniversary on Wednesday, and on several occasions during the Friday prayers.
It's a rallying point whenever there is lack of political support or waning of political support. This is one thing that most Iranians rally around -- or at least the conservative Iranians rally around. And this is what happened again this year. The only difference this year was that this was the first year the Iranian so-called fundamentalists are in -- practically in total power. The only thing that they don't have is the cabinet, the executive branch -- which they will soon capture, as well. So, the rest of it is just repetition of years ago.
PHILLIPS: So, you look at what Eric Haney said and the concern on behalf of the military and the U.S. government at time, and that this hostage crisis spurred a growth in Islamic terrorism. Now Bush continuing to call Iran part of the axis of evil. What is the Iranian reaction now to bush and his reelection?
BOZORGMEHR: There isn't much reaction, because as far as I can tell, election of -- reelection of President Bush is a win-win situation for Iran. If he was -- now that he's elected, they can always rally support, because they see him as a threat. So, they can tell the Iranian people that there's a foreign threat. And if there is any dissension in Iran, it would disappear, and they would rally around the flag because of that.
And if he had lost, it would still be the same. So, it really did not affect or would not affect Iran's domestic policies add all.
PHILLIPS: Is Iran concerned that the U.S. may invade Iran?
BOZORGMEHR: Not really, no. They're more concerned about the possibility of Israel attacking Iran, because Israel has a history of doing that. They did it to us in Iraq before. So, there's a precedent for it. But they feel that -- from what I gather, they feel that the United States Army is already overextended in Afghanistan and Iraq, and they are not doing a very good job. So, they don't want to take an added burden, especially with Iran, which is a country bigger than both of those countries, has a great military capability, and has proven in a war of attrition that it can support itself and it stand its own ground.
So, it's not going to be as easy as Iraq or Afghanistan.
PHILLIPS: But I think it will be interesting from a military standpoint -- Eric Haney -- also from a journalistic standpoint to watch the relations between the U.S. and Iran. Shirzad, thank you for your time today.
BOZORGMEHR: Thank you.
PHILLIPS: Well, joining forces in Falluja -- U.S. Air Force troops and Marines still launching hit-and-run attacks ahead of what now seems an imminent preelection offensive. Marines say that several enemy positions were blown away in overnight airstrikes. Hospital officials say that two people were killed on the outskirts. Troops are brushing on the warfare reminiscent of Somalia, Chechnya, even Vietnam.
CNN's Karl Penhaul has more. He's with the Marines.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey Doug, make sure you hang out behind me a little bit so I can give you some cover.
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Getting ready to storm out of desert and into an urban jungle. An assault on Falluja promises to be a close-quarters street fight. Marine infantrymen in tanks will have to work in harmony against rebel fighters in buildings and hidden alleys.
SGT. MICHAEL CHAMBERS, U.S. MARINE CORPS.: That's what's kind of scary. You're rolling right by thinking it's secure, and then they pop up off that rooftop behind you, and then here comes an RPG.
PENHAUL: Remote-controlled explosives and suicide car bombs are likely to be major threats.
(on camera): The history books recall how some of the world's most powerful armies became bogged down in urban guerrilla warfare -- Kuwait City, Vietnam, Mogadishu, Somalia, Grozny, Chechnya.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guerrilla warfare is dirty business. The defender initially has the advantage because he knows the terrain much better than the attacker. If the defender is able to use his defense to his advantage, the attacker will be slowed and have to reorient his offense.
PENHAUL (voice-over): When the Marines roll in, insurgent gunmen could be lurking in any window or doorway. Armored vehicles and tanks will become magnets for attack.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to be looking for an RPG fire from the rooftops and intersections and stuff like that, make sure we don't hit any tank mine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Charge three!
PENHAUL: Mortar crews run through drills.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Elevation!
UNIDENTIFIED MALES: Elevation!
PENHAUL: Inside the city, they could, if needed, lob charges over buildings or onto rooftops to destroy concealed insurgent positions.
This explosives team is measuring out detonation cord. Depending on how they tie the knot, they can blow out door and race in to clear a potential insurgent hideout.
Intelligence suggests Falluja's defenders may have rigged buildings with homemade bombs.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will it cause us to maybe slow down our attack a little bit because we have to take into count all these kids of obstacles as far as booby traps? Yeah. But will it cause us to not be able to complete mission? Absolutely not.
PENHAUL: U.S. commanders say the keys to victory in Falluja are moving fast and coordinating their weapons on the ground and in the air -- a battlefield where Marine and machine works as one.
Karl Penhaul, CNN, near Falluja.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: The first-ever felony prosecution for spammers. Coming up, how much prison time a pair of e-mail spammers face for illegally sending out millions of spam messages.
SIBILA VARGAS, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: I'm Sibila Vargas from Hollywood. A comedy fundraiser turns political as one famous funnyman throws a few punches at the presidential election. I'll have the whole story when CNN's LIVE FROM continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Well, comedy might be making a comeback on the networks. Elton John and the folks behind "Saturday Night Live" may have something to do with that. CNN's entertainment correspondent Sibila Vargas explains in our Hollywood headlines. She joins us live from L.A. Hi, Sibila.
VARGAS: Hey, Miles. That's right. The rumors are swirling about a new reality show that would give Donald Trump a run for his money. This time, the reported would-be mogul is "Saturday Night Live" executive Lorne Michaels. The famed producer is said to be working on his own reality competition.
The supposed "SNL" project would follow a group of comedians vying for a grand prize, which is believed to be a role on the long- running sketch comedy show. However, we called "Saturday Night Live" directly, and they say there's no offer, no deal, no order, and likely no show in the works. So, Miles, it looks like the Donald can put away his running shoes, at least for now, Miles.
O'BRIEN: All right, at least for now. What about Elton John? There's this whole scenario, perhaps -- or there might be some sort of sitcom -- conventional scripted sitcom involving Elton John of all people?
VARGAS: That's right. Elton John fans will be glad to learn that the musical Brit is lacing up his own running shoes for a new comedy. The rock legend is said to be working on an sitcom for ABC about an aging rock star and the people that surround him.
Now, John says the show is not necessarily based on himself, but rather a mix of other male divas, like Rod Stewart, Mick Jagger, and David Bowie.
And speaking of legends of the stage, some of comedy's heavy hitters turned out last night at L.A.'s International Cultural Center to partake in Buddy Hackett's Sixth Annual Night of Comedy. Now, the event is an annual fundraiser for Buddy Hackett's Singita Animal Sanctuary. And while animals were definitely on the brain, so was the election.
JAY MOHR, COMEDIAN: You know, you look at map of the blue and the red, it looks like someone stabbed Mexico and Canada to death. And apparently people that voted for John Kerry, kind of in the minority. The guy won. The guy won by a lot. He won the popular vote. He won the electoral votes. And if, you know, you got to sweat out New Hampshire and you're from Massachusetts, you can't deliver North Carolina and your vice president is from there? Come on.
VARGAS: Tough words from comedian Jay Mohr. But all joking aside, most of the celebrities we spoke to agreed that America made its decision, and it was definitely time to move forward.
O'BRIEN: All right. Jay Mohr better not quit his -- I guess for him it's a night job. I don't know if political analyst is going to work for him. All right. Sibila Vargas, thanks very much. Good to see you -- Kyra?
PHILLIPS: Well, coming up, a pair of e-mail spammers face prison time. What's the sentence in the first ever felony convictions for e- mail spam?
Also, a check of Wall Street and what's pushing markets higher. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: All right, spam. One of your favorite subjects. Kyra comes to me every day: How can I get them to stop sending me this?
PHILLIPS: Rhonda, ever since the elections began, Miles and I -- hundreds, hundreds a day. We're on a mass spam list.
O'BRIEN: Well, it's ever so nice to hear from folks and have them share their opinions and then sell us all kinds of things to make things larger, if you know what I mean.
But you know, the truth is I hope there's a special place in hell for them. I really do. Rhonda, tell us what...
RHONDA SCHAFFLER, CNN SR. BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: I wouldn't go that far, but there's a place in prison for at least one of them, if that makes you feel any better, Miles and Kyra.
A brother and sister team who sent junk e-mail to millions of America Online customers have been convicted now in the nation's first felony prosecution of spam distributors. The jury recommended a fine of $7,500 for the sister, and the brother got nine years in prison.
Prosecutors said that the two amassed a net wealth of $24 million peddling worthless products like the refund processor and an Internet history eraser. Case is prosecuted in Virginia under a law that took effect last year. That law prevents people from sending unsolicited bulk e-mail -- Kyra, Miles?
O'BRIEN: What was that saying -- one and get it done? Or one and it be done?
PHILLIPS: One and done.
SCHAFFLER: One and not...
O'BRIEN: So, is it two and be through or...
SCHAFFLER: Let's hope not.
O'BRIEN: Oh, no. OK, tell us what...
SCHAFFLER: But we are seeing day two of very, very strong gains here. And it's been a while since we've had consistent back to back rallies.
Got one today, a follow-up from the Bush-inspired rally yesterday. Also, some relief once again on the oil front. Oil prices sliding $2 below $49 now. So, all of this is helping to lift stocks in a very big way. The Dow surges 146 points. Nasdaq up three- quarters of a percent.
And that is the very latest from Wall Street. Kyra, Miles, see you later.
O'BRIEN: Thanks, Rhonda. See you tomorrow.
That wraps up the Thursday edition of LIVE FROM.
PHILLIPS: Now to take us through the next 90 minutes of political headlines, "JUDY WOODRUFF INSIDE POLITICS." Hi, Judy. Did you get any sleep last night?
JUDY WOODRUFF, HOST, "INSIDE POLITICS": Well, a little bit. A little bit. Looking forward to the weekend.
O'BRIEN: All right. You deserve a rest.
PHILLIPS: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: You did a great job.
WOODRUFF: Thank you both. We appreciate it. Thank you.
Well, you both know, the president has already begun to look ahead to his next term. We'll have a live report from the White House. And we'll look at what the Bush campaign did right to win themselves this election and four more years.
Plus, a new balance of power in the Senate. We'll look at the new makeup and what the president says he hopes to do with it.
"INSIDE POLITICS" begins in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Checking stories now in the news for you.
Sources are telling CNN Yasser Arafat isn't registering things, recognizing people, or even speaking. Arafat's condition has deteriorated, and he is gravely ill in France. CNN's "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" will have more at 5:00 Eastern.
And an attack kills three British soldiers recently moved closer to Baghdad to help back up U.S. forces. The three were members of the Black Watch regiment, which until last week was in the relatively peaceful southern portion of Iraq. An Iraqi translator also killed in that attack.
I'm Miles O'Brien. now, "JUDY WOODRUFF'S INSIDE POLITICS."
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