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Latest Developments in the Peterson Trial; A Dozen Brokerage Firms Will Be Told By the SEC That Their Prices Were Wrong; Falluja Update

Aired November 08, 2004 - 14:40   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Kyra?
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Another story we've been keeping up with, that's the new developments in the Scott Peterson case. We're going to go straight to Ted Rowlands just outside the courtroom in Redwood City.

Ted, what's the latest?

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, there could be some problems with the deliberation process with this jury.

Late this morning, the judge called the jury back into the courtroom with Scott Peterson present and both attorneys, both sides were present and he reread the jury some of the instructions that they were given earlier. And the specific instructions that the judge wanted these jurors to take notice of was their responsibility as jurors to deliberate in a manner which was conducive to come into a conclusion.

They are to be respectful toward each other, and they are to not take one side and be an advocate. They are also not to disclose their opinion and stick to it from the very beginning, says the judge. He went on for about 45 seconds to a minute reading verbatim what these instructions were, and then sent the jury back into the deliberation room to get back to work.

Now, the judge, after the jury left, told both attorneys that the next time there is a potential problem with this jury, he is going to read them what is referred to as the dynamite instruction across the country, specifically here in California. It is the People versus Moore. And this is an instruction which is giving jurors other ideas on how to come to a verdict, telling them to role play, switch out the form.

The bottom line here is there seems to be a definite disconnect within these 12 men and women, six men and six women, that have now been deliberating for three full days on Scott Peterson's fate.

The judge has warned both attorneys that the next step is to read this dynamite instruction and that, according to legal experts monitoring this case, could be the last step before a hostile hung jury. Meaning that if he reads this, the foreman then comes back at a later date and says, we're still hung. That could be it and that could be a mistrial. So very telling today as to where the jury is. They seem to be, at least at this point, split -- Kyra?

PHILLIPS: So, Ted, you say there are problems within the deliberation. It's been going on for three days. It really doesn't seem that long when you think about how long this case has been going on.

Has there been some type of infighting? Is it a personality problem? Are there certain individuals that just aren't getting along? What seems to be -- what are your sources telling you about what seems to be sort of that inside problem?

ROWLANDS: Well, we don't know. On the record, there's been absolutely nothing established. On Friday, sources close to the case told CNN who reported Friday night that there was an issue and it was deliberative in nature. It wasn't a medical problem or a scheduling problem and today it really did manifest itself with the judge bringing everybody in.

But interesting, the first thing the judge told this jury was, folks, we've been here for five and a half months and he seemed to convey to them that this has been a lot of work, and he really, really was trying to tell them, let's take our time and do our best here to get to a decision.

It's very common for jurors that are at a discord to give up in frustration. They had to spend the weekend together without deliberate in a hotel here. They're sequestered. So today's re- reading of these instruction, most likely from the judge, is an effort to try to get them focused again.

But it cannot be a good sign that it has come to this point, that someone -- the foreman has told the judge that there is a problem. We don't know if it's one juror, a camp of jurors. But the indication is it may be just one or two jurors because of the way the judge read these instruction. It was almost targeted at a potential problem saying, hey, open up your mind and get back to work.

PHILLIPS: Interesting. All right. Ted Rowlands, right outside the Peterson case there in Redwood City, thanks so much -- Miles?

O'BRIEN: Let's talk about this a little bit more with someone who has had a lot of direct experience with juries over the years. Jeffrey Toobin, our senior legal analyst, joining us now from New York City.

Jeff, let's talk about what might be going on in the jury room. And in particular, there's a juror that a lot of people have talked about. The juror who is both a lawyer and a medical doctor, JD/MD, and who has taken copious notes. Could we presume him to be at the center of this controversy perhaps?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I don't know if we could presume, but I think that would be a pretty good guess. I think a lot of people were surprised that the prosecution left this person on the jury, because prosecutors tend not to like extremely intelligent, extremely unusually talented jurors who might try to take over deliberations.

But I mean, just to state the obvious, this is a serious problem for the prosecution. These kind of jury instructions about deadlock this early in deliberations -- and as Kyra said just a moment ago -- in a trial that went five months, three days of deliberation is not very long. And that they're having trouble like this at this point really suggests that this jury is in danger of not reaching a verdict.

O'BRIEN: All right. So, perhaps a bit of a poisoned atmosphere there in the jury room, which might make it difficult for them to deliberate.

Let's talk about the other thing -- the other little piece of evidence that we have witnessed, which is the jury asked to see the boat. Give us a sense of how you would interpret that as what the jury is thinking about right now?

TOOBIN: That would seem to me to be suggestive of a jury that's just simply doing its job. The boat is, obviously, a very important piece of evidence. There was a good deal of controversy about it. The prosecution claims that Scott disposed of his wife's body using that boat. It's obviously an important piece of evidence.

I don't think you can draw too much of a conclusion one way or the other about asking to see it. It's thorough. It's appropriate. It's what juries usually do. It's very different from having a deadlock, which is what the judge's instructions this morning suggest.

O'BRIEN: Now, I remember last time we were talking about this general subject, it was, of course, the Enron case. And in that, case it turned out one juror held fast and, as a result, no verdict was reached. How frequently does that really happen?

TOOBIN: Not often but it does happen. The Dennis Kozlowski case here in New York, they had a...

O'BRIEN: Oh, I'm sorry, not Enron, Tyco. I apologize.

TOOBIN: Right. That was a case that was stopped by a single holdout juror. It is not the usual way that hung juries happen. There usually are a couple of jurors who have a problem. But this is -- but one juror is enough to stop a verdict and a jury that's split six to six is legally the same as a jury that's split 11 to one. Either way you have to redo the whole trial.

O'BRIEN: It makes you wonder, and I'm sure that a lot of -- at a lot of law schools they discuss this, what about some sort of super majority vote for jurors.

TOOBIN: You know, in a death penalty case, that would certainly never be constitutional. In many misdemeanor cases and many states, majorities are allowed to convict rather than unanimity. But in a case with stakes this high, I think there's no way any court would approve a less than unanimous verdict. I think one of the real questions this raises is, why did this trial take so long?

And do you, by trying a case for this long, limit yourself to jurors who are somehow eccentric because most people are not going to be able to sit on a five or six month trial. And I think should this trial not end successfully for the prosecution, their decision to try it at such enormous lengths when it is not the world's most complicated murder, I think that's going to be a question that will and should be asked.

O'BRIEN: You've said it before. I'm sure you'll say it again. The prosecution could have used a good editor there (ph).

TOOBIN: Boy. You know, playing every single one of the Amber Frey case, when the fact that they were having an affair was not in dispute. This is a case where there's only one fact that is really the most important, is that Laci Peterson's body was discovered 80 miles from their home, precisely where Scott said he was on the day she disappeared. That's what this case is about. You didn't need six months to try it that way.

O'BRIEN: Jeff Toobin, our legal analyst in New York City, thanks for your insights. We appreciate it.

TOOBIN: OK, Miles.

PHILLIPS: We're going to take a quick break. We're going to check in with Rhonda Schaffler and the markets, see how they're doing, right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, an investigation into some of the nation's best known brokerage firms might become the latest scandal targeting Wall Street.

O'BRIEN: Another scandal on Wall Street and Rhonda Schaffler is tracking every bit of it.

Hello, Rhonda.

RHONDA SCHAFFLER, CNN SR. BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Miles and Kyra.

Well, here's the latest. About a dozen brokerage firms might soon be told by the Securities and Exchange Commission that their price was wrong. According to sources, the SEC is investigating whether the firms failed to get the best price for stocks they were trading for their customers.

By law, brokers are required to security the best available price. Firms being probed include Wall Street heavyweights such as Morgan Stanley, Merrill Lynch, Charles Schwab, and E*trade. Neither the SEC nor the firms involved are commenting. Even though the alleged trades would have hurt investors by mere pennies a share, it might hurt overall investor trust, which we know has been damaged by previous Wall Street scandal -- Kyra, Miles? PHILLIPS: I guess it's a good thing you and I bought stun guns to use on each other.

O'BRIEN: I'm going to Taser your you know what. All right.

SCHAFFLER: They're going to be everywhere, apparently, by the latest news here.

O'BRIEN: Great! Shock news! Shocking!

PHILLIPS: We're not the only ones.

SCHAFFLER: Stun guns everywhere.

PHILLIPS: Shock an anchor.

SCHAFFLER: They have been approved, in all seriousness, by the Department of Homeland Security for use on board a major international commercial airlines. The company does not specify which airline will be able to use the stun gun but this is the first approval for use of Taser devices on commercial flights. Shares of Taser are up about $9 on the news.

Need a little bit more stunning action on Wall Street. It's been pretty quiet throughout the trading day. The Dow Industrials coming off big gains last week, only up 11 points right now. The Nasdaq little changed.

That is the latest from Wall Street. Kyra, Miles, see you later.

O'BRIEN: All right. Thank you very much, Rhonda Schaffler. Appreciate it.

Where are we headed?

PHILLIPS: I think we're going to toss to break and then talk about "INSIDE POLITICS" maybe after that.

O'BRIEN: Wonderful idea. Let's do it right away or else I'll have to Taser you. (INAUDIBLE).

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: The assault on Falluja is well underway now.

CNN's Jane Arraf is in the midst of it embedded with the U.S. Army. She joins us now on the phone.

Jane, what can you tell us?

JANE ARRAF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We're in the northeast sector of the city and they've just called in air strike on a suspected insurgent submission with five to six insurgents. For the past hour or so now, they have been firing tank rounds into booby-trapped barriers. Now these seem to be entire streets almost of barricades lined with home made bombs that were meant to prevent U.S. forces from getting in.

They had suspected and feared that this is what would greet them as they went in and this is what they found. They've been firing 120 millimeter fire into these rounds to explode them, causing massive explosions in this part of the city.

At the same time, as I mentioned, air strikes going on as well. So far they say they believe they've killed 20 to 25 insurgents. Now, in the entire city, we're talking about possibly up to 3,000. We are still on our way into the city. We're in an armored personnel carrier but they've been held back somewhat by the series of booby traps that they are going through methodically exploding -- Miles?

O'BRIEN: Jane, these booby-traps, which they're trying to dismantle and diffuse as they go along, pretty much what they expect, I presume?

ARRAF: It is. They had thought that that was part of the reason why this part of the city, the northeast part, was heavy with insurgence and very few civilians. They have been getting intelligence that insurgents has prevented civilians from coming back into this part of the city because they have laced the streets (INAUDIBLE) barriers, set up tires with home made bombs, improvised explosive devices designed to go off as the troops approach and that, indeed, is what they're finding.

O'BRIEN: CNN's Jane Arraf, who is embedded with the U.S. Army northeast portion of Falluja, as they continue their assault now, which is several hours old. We'll, obviously, be tracking it every step of the way. And as we hear from our embedded reporters, we'll bring them to you the moment they call us.

That's it from CNN's LIVE FROM. On behalf of Kyra Phillips and the rest of the team, thanks for watching us. Up next, "INSIDE POLITICS" with Judy Woodruff.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired November 8, 2004 - 14:40   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Kyra?
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Another story we've been keeping up with, that's the new developments in the Scott Peterson case. We're going to go straight to Ted Rowlands just outside the courtroom in Redwood City.

Ted, what's the latest?

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, there could be some problems with the deliberation process with this jury.

Late this morning, the judge called the jury back into the courtroom with Scott Peterson present and both attorneys, both sides were present and he reread the jury some of the instructions that they were given earlier. And the specific instructions that the judge wanted these jurors to take notice of was their responsibility as jurors to deliberate in a manner which was conducive to come into a conclusion.

They are to be respectful toward each other, and they are to not take one side and be an advocate. They are also not to disclose their opinion and stick to it from the very beginning, says the judge. He went on for about 45 seconds to a minute reading verbatim what these instructions were, and then sent the jury back into the deliberation room to get back to work.

Now, the judge, after the jury left, told both attorneys that the next time there is a potential problem with this jury, he is going to read them what is referred to as the dynamite instruction across the country, specifically here in California. It is the People versus Moore. And this is an instruction which is giving jurors other ideas on how to come to a verdict, telling them to role play, switch out the form.

The bottom line here is there seems to be a definite disconnect within these 12 men and women, six men and six women, that have now been deliberating for three full days on Scott Peterson's fate.

The judge has warned both attorneys that the next step is to read this dynamite instruction and that, according to legal experts monitoring this case, could be the last step before a hostile hung jury. Meaning that if he reads this, the foreman then comes back at a later date and says, we're still hung. That could be it and that could be a mistrial. So very telling today as to where the jury is. They seem to be, at least at this point, split -- Kyra?

PHILLIPS: So, Ted, you say there are problems within the deliberation. It's been going on for three days. It really doesn't seem that long when you think about how long this case has been going on.

Has there been some type of infighting? Is it a personality problem? Are there certain individuals that just aren't getting along? What seems to be -- what are your sources telling you about what seems to be sort of that inside problem?

ROWLANDS: Well, we don't know. On the record, there's been absolutely nothing established. On Friday, sources close to the case told CNN who reported Friday night that there was an issue and it was deliberative in nature. It wasn't a medical problem or a scheduling problem and today it really did manifest itself with the judge bringing everybody in.

But interesting, the first thing the judge told this jury was, folks, we've been here for five and a half months and he seemed to convey to them that this has been a lot of work, and he really, really was trying to tell them, let's take our time and do our best here to get to a decision.

It's very common for jurors that are at a discord to give up in frustration. They had to spend the weekend together without deliberate in a hotel here. They're sequestered. So today's re- reading of these instruction, most likely from the judge, is an effort to try to get them focused again.

But it cannot be a good sign that it has come to this point, that someone -- the foreman has told the judge that there is a problem. We don't know if it's one juror, a camp of jurors. But the indication is it may be just one or two jurors because of the way the judge read these instruction. It was almost targeted at a potential problem saying, hey, open up your mind and get back to work.

PHILLIPS: Interesting. All right. Ted Rowlands, right outside the Peterson case there in Redwood City, thanks so much -- Miles?

O'BRIEN: Let's talk about this a little bit more with someone who has had a lot of direct experience with juries over the years. Jeffrey Toobin, our senior legal analyst, joining us now from New York City.

Jeff, let's talk about what might be going on in the jury room. And in particular, there's a juror that a lot of people have talked about. The juror who is both a lawyer and a medical doctor, JD/MD, and who has taken copious notes. Could we presume him to be at the center of this controversy perhaps?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I don't know if we could presume, but I think that would be a pretty good guess. I think a lot of people were surprised that the prosecution left this person on the jury, because prosecutors tend not to like extremely intelligent, extremely unusually talented jurors who might try to take over deliberations.

But I mean, just to state the obvious, this is a serious problem for the prosecution. These kind of jury instructions about deadlock this early in deliberations -- and as Kyra said just a moment ago -- in a trial that went five months, three days of deliberation is not very long. And that they're having trouble like this at this point really suggests that this jury is in danger of not reaching a verdict.

O'BRIEN: All right. So, perhaps a bit of a poisoned atmosphere there in the jury room, which might make it difficult for them to deliberate.

Let's talk about the other thing -- the other little piece of evidence that we have witnessed, which is the jury asked to see the boat. Give us a sense of how you would interpret that as what the jury is thinking about right now?

TOOBIN: That would seem to me to be suggestive of a jury that's just simply doing its job. The boat is, obviously, a very important piece of evidence. There was a good deal of controversy about it. The prosecution claims that Scott disposed of his wife's body using that boat. It's obviously an important piece of evidence.

I don't think you can draw too much of a conclusion one way or the other about asking to see it. It's thorough. It's appropriate. It's what juries usually do. It's very different from having a deadlock, which is what the judge's instructions this morning suggest.

O'BRIEN: Now, I remember last time we were talking about this general subject, it was, of course, the Enron case. And in that, case it turned out one juror held fast and, as a result, no verdict was reached. How frequently does that really happen?

TOOBIN: Not often but it does happen. The Dennis Kozlowski case here in New York, they had a...

O'BRIEN: Oh, I'm sorry, not Enron, Tyco. I apologize.

TOOBIN: Right. That was a case that was stopped by a single holdout juror. It is not the usual way that hung juries happen. There usually are a couple of jurors who have a problem. But this is -- but one juror is enough to stop a verdict and a jury that's split six to six is legally the same as a jury that's split 11 to one. Either way you have to redo the whole trial.

O'BRIEN: It makes you wonder, and I'm sure that a lot of -- at a lot of law schools they discuss this, what about some sort of super majority vote for jurors.

TOOBIN: You know, in a death penalty case, that would certainly never be constitutional. In many misdemeanor cases and many states, majorities are allowed to convict rather than unanimity. But in a case with stakes this high, I think there's no way any court would approve a less than unanimous verdict. I think one of the real questions this raises is, why did this trial take so long?

And do you, by trying a case for this long, limit yourself to jurors who are somehow eccentric because most people are not going to be able to sit on a five or six month trial. And I think should this trial not end successfully for the prosecution, their decision to try it at such enormous lengths when it is not the world's most complicated murder, I think that's going to be a question that will and should be asked.

O'BRIEN: You've said it before. I'm sure you'll say it again. The prosecution could have used a good editor there (ph).

TOOBIN: Boy. You know, playing every single one of the Amber Frey case, when the fact that they were having an affair was not in dispute. This is a case where there's only one fact that is really the most important, is that Laci Peterson's body was discovered 80 miles from their home, precisely where Scott said he was on the day she disappeared. That's what this case is about. You didn't need six months to try it that way.

O'BRIEN: Jeff Toobin, our legal analyst in New York City, thanks for your insights. We appreciate it.

TOOBIN: OK, Miles.

PHILLIPS: We're going to take a quick break. We're going to check in with Rhonda Schaffler and the markets, see how they're doing, right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, an investigation into some of the nation's best known brokerage firms might become the latest scandal targeting Wall Street.

O'BRIEN: Another scandal on Wall Street and Rhonda Schaffler is tracking every bit of it.

Hello, Rhonda.

RHONDA SCHAFFLER, CNN SR. BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Miles and Kyra.

Well, here's the latest. About a dozen brokerage firms might soon be told by the Securities and Exchange Commission that their price was wrong. According to sources, the SEC is investigating whether the firms failed to get the best price for stocks they were trading for their customers.

By law, brokers are required to security the best available price. Firms being probed include Wall Street heavyweights such as Morgan Stanley, Merrill Lynch, Charles Schwab, and E*trade. Neither the SEC nor the firms involved are commenting. Even though the alleged trades would have hurt investors by mere pennies a share, it might hurt overall investor trust, which we know has been damaged by previous Wall Street scandal -- Kyra, Miles? PHILLIPS: I guess it's a good thing you and I bought stun guns to use on each other.

O'BRIEN: I'm going to Taser your you know what. All right.

SCHAFFLER: They're going to be everywhere, apparently, by the latest news here.

O'BRIEN: Great! Shock news! Shocking!

PHILLIPS: We're not the only ones.

SCHAFFLER: Stun guns everywhere.

PHILLIPS: Shock an anchor.

SCHAFFLER: They have been approved, in all seriousness, by the Department of Homeland Security for use on board a major international commercial airlines. The company does not specify which airline will be able to use the stun gun but this is the first approval for use of Taser devices on commercial flights. Shares of Taser are up about $9 on the news.

Need a little bit more stunning action on Wall Street. It's been pretty quiet throughout the trading day. The Dow Industrials coming off big gains last week, only up 11 points right now. The Nasdaq little changed.

That is the latest from Wall Street. Kyra, Miles, see you later.

O'BRIEN: All right. Thank you very much, Rhonda Schaffler. Appreciate it.

Where are we headed?

PHILLIPS: I think we're going to toss to break and then talk about "INSIDE POLITICS" maybe after that.

O'BRIEN: Wonderful idea. Let's do it right away or else I'll have to Taser you. (INAUDIBLE).

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: The assault on Falluja is well underway now.

CNN's Jane Arraf is in the midst of it embedded with the U.S. Army. She joins us now on the phone.

Jane, what can you tell us?

JANE ARRAF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We're in the northeast sector of the city and they've just called in air strike on a suspected insurgent submission with five to six insurgents. For the past hour or so now, they have been firing tank rounds into booby-trapped barriers. Now these seem to be entire streets almost of barricades lined with home made bombs that were meant to prevent U.S. forces from getting in.

They had suspected and feared that this is what would greet them as they went in and this is what they found. They've been firing 120 millimeter fire into these rounds to explode them, causing massive explosions in this part of the city.

At the same time, as I mentioned, air strikes going on as well. So far they say they believe they've killed 20 to 25 insurgents. Now, in the entire city, we're talking about possibly up to 3,000. We are still on our way into the city. We're in an armored personnel carrier but they've been held back somewhat by the series of booby traps that they are going through methodically exploding -- Miles?

O'BRIEN: Jane, these booby-traps, which they're trying to dismantle and diffuse as they go along, pretty much what they expect, I presume?

ARRAF: It is. They had thought that that was part of the reason why this part of the city, the northeast part, was heavy with insurgence and very few civilians. They have been getting intelligence that insurgents has prevented civilians from coming back into this part of the city because they have laced the streets (INAUDIBLE) barriers, set up tires with home made bombs, improvised explosive devices designed to go off as the troops approach and that, indeed, is what they're finding.

O'BRIEN: CNN's Jane Arraf, who is embedded with the U.S. Army northeast portion of Falluja, as they continue their assault now, which is several hours old. We'll, obviously, be tracking it every step of the way. And as we hear from our embedded reporters, we'll bring them to you the moment they call us.

That's it from CNN's LIVE FROM. On behalf of Kyra Phillips and the rest of the team, thanks for watching us. Up next, "INSIDE POLITICS" with Judy Woodruff.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com