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Analysis of the Fighting in Falluja; New Developments in the Scott Peterson Trial

Aired November 09, 2004 - 13:37   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Well, apart from the obvious challenges of fighting in narrow streets and blind allies, U.S. and Iraqi troops are also trying to keep their prey from escaping.
We get some insights from CNN military analyst retired Army Brigadier General David Grange. General, good to see you.

BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE, U.S. ARMY (RET): Same to you.

HARRIS: Well, let me start by sort of recapping some of the points from the press briefing and then get your general comments on it. Lieutenant General Thomas Metz told us nothing has surprised U.S. and Iraqi troops so far in the battle in Falluja.

The objectives so far for the battle are on -- or ahead of schedule, not only in Falluja, but throughout Iraq. No real count on enemy fighting -- fighters killed or captured and the enemy is fighting hard but not to the death so far.

Give me your sense of where we are about 36 hours, close to two days, into this battle for Falluja.

GRANGE: Well, my assessment is they're doing quite well. It's typical of insurgents to conduct a fleeting battle. In other word, delaying actions, engage coalition forces and melt back into a neighborhood, from building to building, using any means they can to use the concealment of the urban area to survive. And that's probably what you're seeing.

But if they have a cordon, if they have the area surrounded as tight as they say they do, then I think they'll be very successful.

HARRIS: The idea for those insurgents is basically to launch -- to fire on troop, to try to draw them into areas that perhaps have been booby-trapped, although the general did mention they have not found as much booby-trapping as they thought they might.

GRANGE: Well, some of it may be to lure in coalition troops. But part of it is just shoot and run, shoot and scoot. Again, it's a survival tactic that an inferior force will use against superior odds.

HARRIS: Who are these insurgents at this point? They're basically on a suicide mission at this point. They're faced with overwhelming force from the coalition troops. What are they doing, what kind of a plan, if any, is evident here? GRANGE: Well, I think the plan was, hope that there would be casualties from improvised explosive devices or others and there will be a stall-mate, negotiations, again and so then the attack would stop. Or they have a way to ex-filtrate (ph) the city. But some will die in place, will want to die for what they think is their cause. Some will just get pushed and pushed and pushed into a corner, like rats, and then just die in place.

HARRIS: You know, there was some praise from the general for the Iraqi forces. Quoting here, they have acquitted (ph) themselves well. How important is it for these Iraqi troops to show up, take on the battle and be viewed by American soldiers as being good and successful fighters in this battle?

GRANGE: Well, very important. And a lot of effort's been going on the last half of the year to train Iraqi forces up to acceptable standard to fight alongside coalition troops. Remember, you're changing a culture of the military that for 30 years was not organized or led or trained or equipped to anything like it is today. That doesn't happen overnight.

The key thing is the selection of quality, capable leaders that the troops respect and will follow into battle. And that took a while. And they're finally are getting units like that and are doing very well.

HARRIS: Well, you think this can be used as some kind of recruiting tool to get more Iraqis involved? Boy, that would really be helpful.

GRANGE: I think they will. There's a PR, you know, public relations piece to this, to say, hey, look, we can do this, too. We're a capable and proud military unit. And you can be like us and support your government and bring this thing to an end. And I think it will have a domino effect on the rank and file of the new Iraqi recruits.

HARRIS: The fighting from the insurgents has been described as sort of hit or miss or haphazard. Are you surprised that there hasn't been stauncher resistance?

GRANGE: Not necessarily. Because, again, they're overmatched. And they really can't do a whole lot. You can't compare it too much to April because the forces were somewhat held back. Now they have objectives deep into the city, on key terrain. They occupy that, as they clear the rest of the city.

And so, it's a very, very comprehensive plan, with rebuilding and reconstruction right on the heels of each neighborhood they go through. So it's happening concurrently, it's simultaneous in action. It's a well thought-out plan.

The general says he's expecting several more days of tough, urban fighting. If you would, put us under the helmets of these brave men and women who are fighting for us in Iraq and give us a sense of how they're approaching this battle, as they go from street to street, from alley to alley, not quite sure of where the booby-trap may be.

GRANGE: Sure. And that's the fear that all soldiers have, marines have. You're not going to get rid of it no matter how many times you've been in combat, how young or hold they are. But they have a lot of confidence. And they want -- what happens is when you have a military organization that has a purpose, with an end in sight, it's very good for morale.

The worst thing that can happen is, oh, stop it we don't really mean to finish it, and they pull back. If they know they're going to completion of the mission, morale will stay high and they'll be very confident in their actions.

HARRIS: CNN military analyst, retired Army Brigadier General David Grange, thank you so much. Let's leave it there for right now.

GRANGE: My pleasure.

HARRIS: More LIVE FROM when we come right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, to convict or not to convict? Jurors in the Scott Peterson case enter a fifth day of what appears to be contentious deliberations. Rusty Dornin joins us live outside the courthouse with the latest. Hi there, Rusty.

RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning. They're back at it, after nearly three hours this morning. They're -- both sides are behind closed doors with the judge, however. They did call a hearing. We're not sure what that hearing is about this morning.

But there was good news yesterday afternoon, when they requested an additional 30 pieces of evidence. That was because earlier in the day, they had indicated to the judge that they were having problems in the jury room and had come to some kind of impasse. Basically, the judge reread instructions to them, indicating if you don't succeed, try, try, again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHUCK SMITH, LEGAL ANALYST: There are obviously two camps. No one knows what the size of the camps are. But the judge's rereading, most specifically, 17.4-0, which tells the jurors that they should not make an emphatic expression of how they intend to vote at the outset. They should not develop a sense of pride in their position. They should not hesitate to change their opinion if shown to be wrong. It basically tells them, hey, folks, get along, keep talking, don't become entrenched in your positions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DORNIN: And after the jury went back in, that is when they requested that additional evidence, which did include some tidal charts of where Scott Peterson went fishing, the anchor, the phone calls of Amber Frey and Scott Peterson that were recorded secretly with Amber Frey and police.

It was after at that point after the judge had read off this very long list that one of the legal pundits next to me said, looks like we could be in for a long haul. Back to you.

NGUYEN: So, that means with this 30 pieces of evidence that they're looking at, possibly they are trying to come to some kind of decision back there, they're still at it?

DORNIN: Exactly. Some legal experts say it could be people in the majority that are saying let's look at this evidence, trying to convince the minority to come their way. So they're asking for all these different pieces of evidence. It just depends on how long it's going to take to go through that. Perhaps they want to be very thorough in this before they decide to take a vote again.

NGUYEN: Absolutely. CNN's Rusty Dornin in Redwood City, California, for us today. Thank you, Rusty.

Of course, we will have a check of the markets momentarily. We're take a quick break. More LIVE FROM. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: There's been a new development in the Scott Peterson case. We want to take you live to CNN's Rusty Dornin in Redwood City, California, with the latest. Rusty, what do you know?

DORNIN: Well, Betty, as I told you a few moments ago, they went into chambers, both sides, the prosecution and the defense, to talk to the judge this morning. We understand from a source that they're talking about a juror who did some kind of research possibly on his own.

Now, if that is found to be true, that could be grounds for dismissing a juror in this case. Last week, we did hear there was a juror issue that was not about scheduling. It wasn't about a health issue. It might have been about this juror. So they're discussing that right now, behind closed doors. We'll have to see what happens. But it could be regarding a dismissal.

NGUYEN: Very interesting. We'll definitely want to see how all of this plays out. CNN's Rusty Dornin, thank you for that report.

There is more CNN LIVE FROM right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(STOCK MARKET UPDATE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired November 9, 2004 - 13:37   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Well, apart from the obvious challenges of fighting in narrow streets and blind allies, U.S. and Iraqi troops are also trying to keep their prey from escaping.
We get some insights from CNN military analyst retired Army Brigadier General David Grange. General, good to see you.

BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE, U.S. ARMY (RET): Same to you.

HARRIS: Well, let me start by sort of recapping some of the points from the press briefing and then get your general comments on it. Lieutenant General Thomas Metz told us nothing has surprised U.S. and Iraqi troops so far in the battle in Falluja.

The objectives so far for the battle are on -- or ahead of schedule, not only in Falluja, but throughout Iraq. No real count on enemy fighting -- fighters killed or captured and the enemy is fighting hard but not to the death so far.

Give me your sense of where we are about 36 hours, close to two days, into this battle for Falluja.

GRANGE: Well, my assessment is they're doing quite well. It's typical of insurgents to conduct a fleeting battle. In other word, delaying actions, engage coalition forces and melt back into a neighborhood, from building to building, using any means they can to use the concealment of the urban area to survive. And that's probably what you're seeing.

But if they have a cordon, if they have the area surrounded as tight as they say they do, then I think they'll be very successful.

HARRIS: The idea for those insurgents is basically to launch -- to fire on troop, to try to draw them into areas that perhaps have been booby-trapped, although the general did mention they have not found as much booby-trapping as they thought they might.

GRANGE: Well, some of it may be to lure in coalition troops. But part of it is just shoot and run, shoot and scoot. Again, it's a survival tactic that an inferior force will use against superior odds.

HARRIS: Who are these insurgents at this point? They're basically on a suicide mission at this point. They're faced with overwhelming force from the coalition troops. What are they doing, what kind of a plan, if any, is evident here? GRANGE: Well, I think the plan was, hope that there would be casualties from improvised explosive devices or others and there will be a stall-mate, negotiations, again and so then the attack would stop. Or they have a way to ex-filtrate (ph) the city. But some will die in place, will want to die for what they think is their cause. Some will just get pushed and pushed and pushed into a corner, like rats, and then just die in place.

HARRIS: You know, there was some praise from the general for the Iraqi forces. Quoting here, they have acquitted (ph) themselves well. How important is it for these Iraqi troops to show up, take on the battle and be viewed by American soldiers as being good and successful fighters in this battle?

GRANGE: Well, very important. And a lot of effort's been going on the last half of the year to train Iraqi forces up to acceptable standard to fight alongside coalition troops. Remember, you're changing a culture of the military that for 30 years was not organized or led or trained or equipped to anything like it is today. That doesn't happen overnight.

The key thing is the selection of quality, capable leaders that the troops respect and will follow into battle. And that took a while. And they're finally are getting units like that and are doing very well.

HARRIS: Well, you think this can be used as some kind of recruiting tool to get more Iraqis involved? Boy, that would really be helpful.

GRANGE: I think they will. There's a PR, you know, public relations piece to this, to say, hey, look, we can do this, too. We're a capable and proud military unit. And you can be like us and support your government and bring this thing to an end. And I think it will have a domino effect on the rank and file of the new Iraqi recruits.

HARRIS: The fighting from the insurgents has been described as sort of hit or miss or haphazard. Are you surprised that there hasn't been stauncher resistance?

GRANGE: Not necessarily. Because, again, they're overmatched. And they really can't do a whole lot. You can't compare it too much to April because the forces were somewhat held back. Now they have objectives deep into the city, on key terrain. They occupy that, as they clear the rest of the city.

And so, it's a very, very comprehensive plan, with rebuilding and reconstruction right on the heels of each neighborhood they go through. So it's happening concurrently, it's simultaneous in action. It's a well thought-out plan.

The general says he's expecting several more days of tough, urban fighting. If you would, put us under the helmets of these brave men and women who are fighting for us in Iraq and give us a sense of how they're approaching this battle, as they go from street to street, from alley to alley, not quite sure of where the booby-trap may be.

GRANGE: Sure. And that's the fear that all soldiers have, marines have. You're not going to get rid of it no matter how many times you've been in combat, how young or hold they are. But they have a lot of confidence. And they want -- what happens is when you have a military organization that has a purpose, with an end in sight, it's very good for morale.

The worst thing that can happen is, oh, stop it we don't really mean to finish it, and they pull back. If they know they're going to completion of the mission, morale will stay high and they'll be very confident in their actions.

HARRIS: CNN military analyst, retired Army Brigadier General David Grange, thank you so much. Let's leave it there for right now.

GRANGE: My pleasure.

HARRIS: More LIVE FROM when we come right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, to convict or not to convict? Jurors in the Scott Peterson case enter a fifth day of what appears to be contentious deliberations. Rusty Dornin joins us live outside the courthouse with the latest. Hi there, Rusty.

RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning. They're back at it, after nearly three hours this morning. They're -- both sides are behind closed doors with the judge, however. They did call a hearing. We're not sure what that hearing is about this morning.

But there was good news yesterday afternoon, when they requested an additional 30 pieces of evidence. That was because earlier in the day, they had indicated to the judge that they were having problems in the jury room and had come to some kind of impasse. Basically, the judge reread instructions to them, indicating if you don't succeed, try, try, again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHUCK SMITH, LEGAL ANALYST: There are obviously two camps. No one knows what the size of the camps are. But the judge's rereading, most specifically, 17.4-0, which tells the jurors that they should not make an emphatic expression of how they intend to vote at the outset. They should not develop a sense of pride in their position. They should not hesitate to change their opinion if shown to be wrong. It basically tells them, hey, folks, get along, keep talking, don't become entrenched in your positions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DORNIN: And after the jury went back in, that is when they requested that additional evidence, which did include some tidal charts of where Scott Peterson went fishing, the anchor, the phone calls of Amber Frey and Scott Peterson that were recorded secretly with Amber Frey and police.

It was after at that point after the judge had read off this very long list that one of the legal pundits next to me said, looks like we could be in for a long haul. Back to you.

NGUYEN: So, that means with this 30 pieces of evidence that they're looking at, possibly they are trying to come to some kind of decision back there, they're still at it?

DORNIN: Exactly. Some legal experts say it could be people in the majority that are saying let's look at this evidence, trying to convince the minority to come their way. So they're asking for all these different pieces of evidence. It just depends on how long it's going to take to go through that. Perhaps they want to be very thorough in this before they decide to take a vote again.

NGUYEN: Absolutely. CNN's Rusty Dornin in Redwood City, California, for us today. Thank you, Rusty.

Of course, we will have a check of the markets momentarily. We're take a quick break. More LIVE FROM. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: There's been a new development in the Scott Peterson case. We want to take you live to CNN's Rusty Dornin in Redwood City, California, with the latest. Rusty, what do you know?

DORNIN: Well, Betty, as I told you a few moments ago, they went into chambers, both sides, the prosecution and the defense, to talk to the judge this morning. We understand from a source that they're talking about a juror who did some kind of research possibly on his own.

Now, if that is found to be true, that could be grounds for dismissing a juror in this case. Last week, we did hear there was a juror issue that was not about scheduling. It wasn't about a health issue. It might have been about this juror. So they're discussing that right now, behind closed doors. We'll have to see what happens. But it could be regarding a dismissal.

NGUYEN: Very interesting. We'll definitely want to see how all of this plays out. CNN's Rusty Dornin, thank you for that report.

There is more CNN LIVE FROM right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(STOCK MARKET UPDATE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com