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State Dept. After Powell; Bob Schieffer Touts 50 Years on 'Face the Nation'

Aired November 15, 2004 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Checking stories "Now in the News." Saying he accomplished a great deal as secretary of state, Colin Powell announced he's ending his sometimes contentious relationship with the Bush administration. Powell says it was by mutual agreement. Sources say Condoleezza Rice is a likely replacement. More on Powell's legacy just ahead with Liz Marlantes of "The Christian Science Monitor."
Colin Powell the most prominent of four cabinet members whose resignations were revealed today. Also on the way out: Education Secretary Rod Paige, Energy Secretary Spencer Abraham and Agriculture Secretary Ann Veneman, that makes a total of six departures among the 15 people on the Bush cabinet.

Now to who is in. President Bush wants the man who managed his re-election bid to head up the Republican Party. Two Republican officials tell CNN that Mr. Bush has asked Ken Mehlman to success Ed Gillespie as chairman of the Republican National Committee. The RNC will formally name a chairman next year.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, it was long rumored, now it's official, Secretary of State Colin Powell stepping down. Powell led a successful but controversial tenure, often butting heads with some of his colleagues inside the Bush administration. So how will Mr. Powell be remembered and who will replace him? These are questions for Liz Marlantes, a political correspondent for "The Christian Science Monitor."

Liz, good to have you back with us.

LIZ MARLANTES, "THE CHRISTIAN SCIENCE MONITOR": Thanks, Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right. What's the buzz in Washington? This is one that has been rumored now for about just about four years or so and it finally happens. Is it a bit of an anti-climax or does the timing not surprise folks?

MARLANTES: Well, actually, I would say yes and no. It obviously wasn't a surprise. Powell has made it clear for a while that he was ready to leave. In some ways people were not necessarily expecting it today. There had been some rumors recently that he might stay on a little bit longer just because there's so much going on on the foreign policy front with the Mideast, everything in Iraq, and now we've got Iran as well. So there was some surprise that it came today, but in the grand scheme of things, no, it's not a surprise that he's leaving. O'BRIEN: Well, let me ask you this, when all is said and written will the biggest surprise be that he lasted the full four years? There's so much open discussion about discontent with the Pentagon and with Foggy Bottom, the State Department, that you have to wonder how he lasted four years.

MARLANTES: Yes. I think there's no question that it was probably a frustrating tenure in many ways for him and probably really testament to Powell's loyalty and the loyalty that Bush really demands of the people serving him, that Powell did last this long, that he chose not to step down in the middle of the campaign, for example, when it would have obviously caused a lot of reverberations and possibly given something for Kerry to throw back at the Bush administration. So I do think the fact that he stuck around is testament to a certain code of loyalty there.

O'BRIEN: All right, lots of talk today about Condoleezza Rice as potentially stepping in, and moving over to the State Department, doing what Kissinger and James Baker have done in the past. What are you hearing there?

MARLANTES: Yes, I think the fact that her name has come out so quickly and that there are so few other names being bandied about is a sign that that looks quite likely in many ways. There are a few other names, John Danforth's name has come forward, the ambassador to the U.N. But there is a lot of speculation right away on Condoleezza Rice. And in a way it makes a lot of sense. We've seen over and over again with President Bush that he likes to promote from within. He likes to put people that he trusts and whom he's already relying on to a great deal in other positions. Look at what he did with Alberto Gonzalez, Ken Mehlman today. So again I think that would fit with the Bush administration's general pattern of putting trusted advisers -- promoting from within.

O'BRIEN: But Liz, to the extent that Colin Powell served as a bit of a counterweight, a bit of moderation in this administration, having Condoleezza Rice in that role takes that away. What would the implications be of that?

MARLANTES: Well, you know, in many ways I think increasingly, having counter voices of opposition in a cabinet is really less effective in some ways than it used to be. I think increasingly the way cabinet officials are effective is if they really are there to put in play what the president wants them to do. And so in that sense I think the cabinet is really increasingly just an arm of the presidency, and we really saw that with this president.

This has been a strong presidency and cabinet officials who have tried to cross the West Wing have really not made much headway which is why obviously Powell's tenure was probably in many ways a frustrating one. I think in many ways Rice will represent the president's views much more clearly. And in a way that might be useful for allies to know that they're dealing with someone who is absolutely on the same page as this president.

O'BRIEN: All right. Those are all names we've heard. Let's put a name in play that nobody has been talking about so far today. This is your idea, James Baker. Bring James Baker back, put him back as secretary of state. What do you think of that idea. We're going to start a rumor right here.

MARLANTES: We're going to start a rumor. No, I really was only sort of joking about that, because in a way, I think he is sort of the embodiment of the type of pick that I could imagine Bush going for, because of course, he's long on experience, has extensive ties in the Mideast, which would obviously be important right now. But at the same time, his standing in the Bush inner circle is unquestioned. And so I think, in that sense, he would be maybe the ultimate pick. But obviously Condoleezza Rice is the one that all the focus is on at the moment.

O'BRIEN: He's tanned, he's rested, he's ready. All right, thank you very much. Liz Marlantes from "The Christian Science Monitor," appreciate you giving us a little pipeline to Washington -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Thanks, Miles.

Now back to the battle of Falluja. Thirty-eight Americans have been killed, almost 300 wounded in the fierce fighting. CNN's Nic Robertson has the story of the dangerous hours inside the battle zone for one group of U.S. Marines.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTL. CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For this Marine gunner, resupplying Charlie Company was never going to be easy. A high speed dash through Falluja's dangerous streets, head- long into a firefight.

Resupplying Charlie Company, abruptly switching to reinforce Bravo Company. There, foot patrol, pinned down by insurgent gunfire. Incoming rounds whistle and snap overhead. Bullets ricochet off the armored supply vehicle. Suddenly a call. Marines injured.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's what they're doing right now, they're getting casualties. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) that we're going to leave.

ROBERTSON: Reinforcement turns into medevac. A race back to base, resupplying Charlie Company no longer the objective. Better luck on the next run.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, give me some people down to grab this (expletive deleted) and bring it inside!

ROBERTSON: Charlie Company Marines rush to get their water, food and ammunition out of harm's way. For their commander, the focus now on insurgents bypassed in the initial phase of the assault.

CAPT. THOMAS TENNANT, U.S. MARINE CORPS: The threat that they pose right now is that they hold the ground. We don't know where they are. They can continue to snipe at us and fire RPGs.

ROBERTSON: Resupplied, Captain Tennant's Marines race for cover en route to the next objective, plans worked out as they go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If we do enough clearing rooms, if we have to take over and clear rooms, you guys are throwing frag in every room we come to.

ROBERTSON: Explosives to clear the way. Two of Charlie Company killed by insurgents lying in wait in a house just a few days before. Past the body of a man believed to be an insurgent, progress is cautious. Holding up in a house along the way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. I want a scope up top, doing a- con (ph) up here. Anderson (ph) has got us covered back here. We're good.

ROBERTSON: The strains of battle etching their wearying patterns on the face of Charlie Company. No flagging, though, on the final push for their objective, an Iraqi school. As promised, no risks taken.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fire in the hole!

ROBERTSON: Marines rush forward. No insurgents found.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out!

LT. COL. TRAVIS FULLER, U.S. MARINE CORPS: One of our biggest concerns right now actually is not enemy being in the building. It's a building being booby trapped.

ROBERTSON: Later, under cover of darkness, detainees being sent back to base for questioning.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let us know if Charlie Company needs something tomorrow.

ROBERTSON: And a call for much needed supplies. As day breaks, relative quiet after a night of sporadic explosions. Time to repair, refresh, and reflect on their first taste of battle.

CPL. DOUG KIELER, U.S. MARINE CORPS: I've never gone through anything like this with one of my friends before. And I definitely know that we're all a lot closer now.

ROBERTSON: Unpredictably, and seemingly out of nowhere, they take fire. A day to be like the one before, maybe, more objectives to be taken, more time for Charlie Company in the firing line. Their losses so far, cutting deep, but not hindering their mission.

TENNANT: Broken hearted, disappointed, but with the mission at hand, you can't grieve too much now. You just save it and you grieve when you get out of here safely.

ROBERTSON: For Charlie Company, Falluja was never going to be painless.

Nic Robertson, CNN, with Charlie Company in Falluja, Iraq. (END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Well if life is about making the most of every moment, our next guest has lived his life just right. Veteran newsman Bob Schieffer is here. We're going to go behind the scenes of the big moment in a career packed with a lot of big moments. Straight ahead on LIVE FROM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

Four thousand eight hundred and sixty-two newsmakers, including every man who has served as president and vice president since Eisenhower, not to mention dozens of princes, senators and members of Congress. I'm talking about all the people who have either been revered or reviled as they took tough questions while in the calm or chaotic crossfire of "FACE THE NATION."

Now, 2,450 broadcasts later, Bob Schieffer, the show's anchor and moderator since 1991, is here to talk about every single show that's also detailed in his new book, "Face the Nation: My Favorite Stories from the First 50 Years of the Award-Winning News Broadcast." I'm just kidding. He's not going to talk about all 2,450 broadcasts, only a few.

But probably the most interesting, I found out he two steps because he's from Fort Worth, Texas. I want to talk more about that.

BOB SCHIEFFER, AUTHOR, "FACE THE NATION": All right.

PHILLIPS: I'm just kidding. We'll get to that stuff later. But seriously, the serious news of the day -- first of all, it's a pleasure to have you here.

SCHIEFFER: Thank you very much, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: And pretty timely, considering what's happening in the Bush administration. Are you surprised at all of these resignations?

SCHIEFFER: Really no, I mean, this is a normal thing. These jobs are killers. I want to guarantee you, there are a lot of people who are going to be leaving because they want to leave. They're just worn out. You can't do these jobs for very long. I must say I am surprised about Colin Powell. There has been all this talk that he was going to leave and all of the problems he was having, but my sense of it was, and I think there are a number of people in Washington who thought especially since the death of Arafat that he might stay around for a while, at least until they could get some sort of initiative going in the Middle East.

So I really am a little surprised at his resignation was announced. I have no idea about the timing.

PHILLIPS: Well, you hear about the big names, especially Colin Powell. And as an American, sometimes you sit back and think, oh my gosh, what's happening within our administration. But at the same time I was asking you, OK, has it ever been worse than this and you said, yes. Actually we can trace back to where Richard Nixon asked everyone to resign.

SCHIEFFER: Yes. And then reappointed some of the people but he asked for the resignations of his entire cabinet. And you saw this at the end of the first Reagan term, you saw changes take place. This is only natural. I think the interesting thing now is not so much -- well, it is so much who replaces Colin Powell, but also, does Don Rumsfeld stay or is he going, too? I think that, when we get the answer to those two questions, we'll have a better idea of what the foreign policy in the second Bush term is going to be like.

PHILLIPS: OK. I'll call you for a follow-up interview when that happens, OK? Good. Now, let's get to the book here. I want to go back to the very first broadcast. You talked about it as McCarthy blacklist and the red scare. We pulled a little clip from your CD that comes with the book and we'll listen to this for a second.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "FACE THE NATION" )

SEN. JOSEPH MCCARTHY (R), WISCONSIN: I've been so busy being investigated, preparing for this lynch bee (ph) starting tomorrow that I hadn't had an opportunity to...

SCHIEFFER: You call a meeting of the United States Senate a lynch bee?

MCCARTHY: Well, let's call it the censure...

SCHIEFFER: No, but I'm interested in this, because the Senate is an institution of government. It's a part of the Congress.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: The first show, the first guest, Senator Joseph McCarthy at an incredible time in American history. Wow, this was a scoop.

SCHIEFFER: Yes. This is what you would call a "big get" today. The Senate was about to take up the resolution on whether he should be censured for launching these witch hunts. He goes on the broadcast, like many people since have gone on it, thinking he could go over the head of his critics, take his case to the American people. He dug himself a much deeper hole.

The senators were furious when he referred to the Senate hearings as a lynching bee, and actually speeded up the censure proceedings. He was censured I think much more quickly than he would have been had he not gone on "FACE THE NATION."

PHILLIPS: Wow, and that's where it all started. And then as always, I was looking through the book, the chapter on Fidel Castro and Ed Sullivan. First of all, let's tell our viewers, I mean, did Ed Sullivan really outscoop the newsmen of CBS?

SCHIEFFER: "FACE THE NATION" thought it had obtained this worldwide scoop. They got to Havana and interviewed Fidel Castro the day he came out of the hills to take power in Havana only to learn later that about six hours earlier, Ed Sullivan, of all people, he had gone into the hills and had interviewed Castro.

It turned out that Sullivan always wanted Ed Murrow to invite him to the end of the year of correspondents roundup when he had Schira (ph) and Eric Sevareid and all the famous journalists in the CBS stable to come in and talk about the state of the world. Ed Sullivan, who had been a gossip columnist for "The New York Daily News" on Broadway thought he ought to be invited. And he thought if I can get a...

PHILLIPS: He wanted to be taken seriously, right?

SCHIEFFER: He thought if I can get a big scoop here then maybe Murrow will invite me to the broadcast. So he goes down and actually did interview Ed Sullivan. "FACE THE NATION" got their broadcast on first that Sunday but that night at 8:00 on "The Ed Sullivan Show," sandwiched between a trained dog act and comedian Alan King, here is old Ed Sullivan interviewing Fidel Castro, asking him, among other things, did he play football in high school and did that help him in the revolution?

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIPS: And that's the way it was. Did he ever gain the respect of Edward R. Morrow ever?

SCHIEFFER: No.

PHILLIPS: Pretty much tanked (ph) at that point, didn't it?

SCHIEFFER: The answer is no, but he made a lot of money, was a very famous man, and probably the most powerful person in all of show business.

PHILLIPS: A little ironic twist there I'm sure.

SCHIEFFER: So that was enough, I guess.

PHILLIPS: Sure, yes, that's true. He was happy. I've got to talk about Vietnam, a much -- you talk about this, you say ongoing search for good news it's interesting when we saw that title, we're thinking wow, I can't tell you how many e-mails I get today from soldiers and Marines and Navy overseas saying where are the good -- well, who is that handsome mug there? Oh, wait a minute.

SCHIEFFER: You see, I haven't changed a bit.

PHILLIPS: You haven't changed at all. Tell me about covering this time. And when you had guests on your show did you ever feel like, OK, am I ever going to get through to the truth here?

SCHIEFFER: You know, every single person from the administration, and this went on over a series of years that appeared on the broadcast, and talked about Vietnam. In the beginning, as you go back to these transcripts, it was apparent they simply did not know what was going on there. And once they came to understand what was going on, they either misstated it or in some cases just lied about what the situation was there.

It was an amazing and sobering thing to see how much and how many times the truth was distorted. I remember one United States senator came on the broadcast in 1967 and said, we are winning in Vietnam, everybody knows it but the American people. And over and over you'd hear this, this search for good news is just around the corner. You can see the light at the end of the tunnel. Before it was over, of course, we realized the light was a train coming our way.

PHILLIPS: But the spin began.

SCHIEFFER: Yes.

PHILLIPS: So I'm curious then, remembering that time, remembering those moments, remembering looking to the eyes of these people and thinking, OK, I am not getting the truth here, when you talk about Iraq and you talk about Afghanistan, do you get that same feeling?

SCHIEFFER: Well, I'll tell you something. People say is this another Vietnam? Iraq is not other Vietnam. This is a totally different situation. For one thing, nobody was worried about the Vietcong coming here and attacking us in this country. This is not Vietnam that we're engaged in right now.

But sometimes, when I see and hear some of the spin coming out it makes me wonder, you know, are we into this same kind of PR campaign. Now I think probably things are looking a little better this week than maybe they looked last week. The good news coming out of Falluja right now is these Iraqi troops apparently performed very well. I think that's the best news I've heard in a long time.

Because in the end, they're going to have to win this war. We can help them, and that's the lesson I learned from Vietnam. You can help people, but you cannot do it for them. And in the end, the Iraqis are going to have to be the ones that do this. They're going to need a lot of help from us but they are the ones that are going to have to do it.

PHILLIPS: Back to the old journalism 101. I remember back in school the talk about, oh, news is going entertainment. You know, there was this whole theory that was out there. It's interesting where we are now. As you look back and you look at where we are now as journalists and how it has to sell and television news, shows like "FACE THE NATION" still very straightforward. You have some fierce loyalists. People still want the non...

SCHIEFFER: That's the interesting thing about these Sunday morning broadcasts, and I must say, CNN has a very good one with old Wolf Blitzer, the hardest working man on television on Sundays.

PHILLIPS: He's going to love that. We need that for a promo.

SCHIEFFER: Sundays are different. We don't try the gotcha business, we don't try to see who can scream the loudest. We don't put the extremists on. We still concentrate on content. And the good news is that seems to be what our viewers want. We're never going to have prime time ratings, but the Sunday broadcasts have become some of the most influential broadcasts on television. I don't think there's any denying that and "FACE THE NATION" is basically the same program today that it was November 7, 1954, when the first one aired. We set them down at the table, we turn on the lights and we ask questions. No bells, whistles or gimmicks.

PHILLIPS: Bob Schieffer, the book is "FACE THE NATION." Catchy title. Where did you get that from? "My Favorite Stories from the First 50 Years of the Award-Winning News Broadcast." It comes with a DVD with some really neat clips. Of course I'm getting the wrap, right, because we have to go to the commercial break that pays the bills. But I do have some questions for you and will incorporate it later in the newscast if you don't mind sticking around for a few more minutes.

SCHIEFFER: You bet, sure.

PHILLIPS: Thanks, Bob.

More LIVE FROM after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: All right.

O'BRIEN: The president won the election. We're just kind of...

PHILLIPS: We're still talking to Bob Schieffer. We got a little distracted there.

O'BRIEN: Well, we're really not even qualified to carry his briefcase. But we're going to carry on nonetheless. The president won the election, the cabinet needs a little bit of repair, har har. We'll keep you posted on who -- would Bob Schieffer read that? No. We'll keep you posted who's in, who's out and some possible replacements.

PHILLIPS: Also the dangers of whiplash coming to a car near you. A new study shows much room to improve on many vehicles. Stay with us.

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Aired November 15, 2004 - 14:30   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Checking stories "Now in the News." Saying he accomplished a great deal as secretary of state, Colin Powell announced he's ending his sometimes contentious relationship with the Bush administration. Powell says it was by mutual agreement. Sources say Condoleezza Rice is a likely replacement. More on Powell's legacy just ahead with Liz Marlantes of "The Christian Science Monitor."
Colin Powell the most prominent of four cabinet members whose resignations were revealed today. Also on the way out: Education Secretary Rod Paige, Energy Secretary Spencer Abraham and Agriculture Secretary Ann Veneman, that makes a total of six departures among the 15 people on the Bush cabinet.

Now to who is in. President Bush wants the man who managed his re-election bid to head up the Republican Party. Two Republican officials tell CNN that Mr. Bush has asked Ken Mehlman to success Ed Gillespie as chairman of the Republican National Committee. The RNC will formally name a chairman next year.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, it was long rumored, now it's official, Secretary of State Colin Powell stepping down. Powell led a successful but controversial tenure, often butting heads with some of his colleagues inside the Bush administration. So how will Mr. Powell be remembered and who will replace him? These are questions for Liz Marlantes, a political correspondent for "The Christian Science Monitor."

Liz, good to have you back with us.

LIZ MARLANTES, "THE CHRISTIAN SCIENCE MONITOR": Thanks, Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right. What's the buzz in Washington? This is one that has been rumored now for about just about four years or so and it finally happens. Is it a bit of an anti-climax or does the timing not surprise folks?

MARLANTES: Well, actually, I would say yes and no. It obviously wasn't a surprise. Powell has made it clear for a while that he was ready to leave. In some ways people were not necessarily expecting it today. There had been some rumors recently that he might stay on a little bit longer just because there's so much going on on the foreign policy front with the Mideast, everything in Iraq, and now we've got Iran as well. So there was some surprise that it came today, but in the grand scheme of things, no, it's not a surprise that he's leaving. O'BRIEN: Well, let me ask you this, when all is said and written will the biggest surprise be that he lasted the full four years? There's so much open discussion about discontent with the Pentagon and with Foggy Bottom, the State Department, that you have to wonder how he lasted four years.

MARLANTES: Yes. I think there's no question that it was probably a frustrating tenure in many ways for him and probably really testament to Powell's loyalty and the loyalty that Bush really demands of the people serving him, that Powell did last this long, that he chose not to step down in the middle of the campaign, for example, when it would have obviously caused a lot of reverberations and possibly given something for Kerry to throw back at the Bush administration. So I do think the fact that he stuck around is testament to a certain code of loyalty there.

O'BRIEN: All right, lots of talk today about Condoleezza Rice as potentially stepping in, and moving over to the State Department, doing what Kissinger and James Baker have done in the past. What are you hearing there?

MARLANTES: Yes, I think the fact that her name has come out so quickly and that there are so few other names being bandied about is a sign that that looks quite likely in many ways. There are a few other names, John Danforth's name has come forward, the ambassador to the U.N. But there is a lot of speculation right away on Condoleezza Rice. And in a way it makes a lot of sense. We've seen over and over again with President Bush that he likes to promote from within. He likes to put people that he trusts and whom he's already relying on to a great deal in other positions. Look at what he did with Alberto Gonzalez, Ken Mehlman today. So again I think that would fit with the Bush administration's general pattern of putting trusted advisers -- promoting from within.

O'BRIEN: But Liz, to the extent that Colin Powell served as a bit of a counterweight, a bit of moderation in this administration, having Condoleezza Rice in that role takes that away. What would the implications be of that?

MARLANTES: Well, you know, in many ways I think increasingly, having counter voices of opposition in a cabinet is really less effective in some ways than it used to be. I think increasingly the way cabinet officials are effective is if they really are there to put in play what the president wants them to do. And so in that sense I think the cabinet is really increasingly just an arm of the presidency, and we really saw that with this president.

This has been a strong presidency and cabinet officials who have tried to cross the West Wing have really not made much headway which is why obviously Powell's tenure was probably in many ways a frustrating one. I think in many ways Rice will represent the president's views much more clearly. And in a way that might be useful for allies to know that they're dealing with someone who is absolutely on the same page as this president.

O'BRIEN: All right. Those are all names we've heard. Let's put a name in play that nobody has been talking about so far today. This is your idea, James Baker. Bring James Baker back, put him back as secretary of state. What do you think of that idea. We're going to start a rumor right here.

MARLANTES: We're going to start a rumor. No, I really was only sort of joking about that, because in a way, I think he is sort of the embodiment of the type of pick that I could imagine Bush going for, because of course, he's long on experience, has extensive ties in the Mideast, which would obviously be important right now. But at the same time, his standing in the Bush inner circle is unquestioned. And so I think, in that sense, he would be maybe the ultimate pick. But obviously Condoleezza Rice is the one that all the focus is on at the moment.

O'BRIEN: He's tanned, he's rested, he's ready. All right, thank you very much. Liz Marlantes from "The Christian Science Monitor," appreciate you giving us a little pipeline to Washington -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Thanks, Miles.

Now back to the battle of Falluja. Thirty-eight Americans have been killed, almost 300 wounded in the fierce fighting. CNN's Nic Robertson has the story of the dangerous hours inside the battle zone for one group of U.S. Marines.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTL. CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For this Marine gunner, resupplying Charlie Company was never going to be easy. A high speed dash through Falluja's dangerous streets, head- long into a firefight.

Resupplying Charlie Company, abruptly switching to reinforce Bravo Company. There, foot patrol, pinned down by insurgent gunfire. Incoming rounds whistle and snap overhead. Bullets ricochet off the armored supply vehicle. Suddenly a call. Marines injured.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's what they're doing right now, they're getting casualties. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) that we're going to leave.

ROBERTSON: Reinforcement turns into medevac. A race back to base, resupplying Charlie Company no longer the objective. Better luck on the next run.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, give me some people down to grab this (expletive deleted) and bring it inside!

ROBERTSON: Charlie Company Marines rush to get their water, food and ammunition out of harm's way. For their commander, the focus now on insurgents bypassed in the initial phase of the assault.

CAPT. THOMAS TENNANT, U.S. MARINE CORPS: The threat that they pose right now is that they hold the ground. We don't know where they are. They can continue to snipe at us and fire RPGs.

ROBERTSON: Resupplied, Captain Tennant's Marines race for cover en route to the next objective, plans worked out as they go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If we do enough clearing rooms, if we have to take over and clear rooms, you guys are throwing frag in every room we come to.

ROBERTSON: Explosives to clear the way. Two of Charlie Company killed by insurgents lying in wait in a house just a few days before. Past the body of a man believed to be an insurgent, progress is cautious. Holding up in a house along the way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. I want a scope up top, doing a- con (ph) up here. Anderson (ph) has got us covered back here. We're good.

ROBERTSON: The strains of battle etching their wearying patterns on the face of Charlie Company. No flagging, though, on the final push for their objective, an Iraqi school. As promised, no risks taken.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fire in the hole!

ROBERTSON: Marines rush forward. No insurgents found.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out!

LT. COL. TRAVIS FULLER, U.S. MARINE CORPS: One of our biggest concerns right now actually is not enemy being in the building. It's a building being booby trapped.

ROBERTSON: Later, under cover of darkness, detainees being sent back to base for questioning.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let us know if Charlie Company needs something tomorrow.

ROBERTSON: And a call for much needed supplies. As day breaks, relative quiet after a night of sporadic explosions. Time to repair, refresh, and reflect on their first taste of battle.

CPL. DOUG KIELER, U.S. MARINE CORPS: I've never gone through anything like this with one of my friends before. And I definitely know that we're all a lot closer now.

ROBERTSON: Unpredictably, and seemingly out of nowhere, they take fire. A day to be like the one before, maybe, more objectives to be taken, more time for Charlie Company in the firing line. Their losses so far, cutting deep, but not hindering their mission.

TENNANT: Broken hearted, disappointed, but with the mission at hand, you can't grieve too much now. You just save it and you grieve when you get out of here safely.

ROBERTSON: For Charlie Company, Falluja was never going to be painless.

Nic Robertson, CNN, with Charlie Company in Falluja, Iraq. (END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Well if life is about making the most of every moment, our next guest has lived his life just right. Veteran newsman Bob Schieffer is here. We're going to go behind the scenes of the big moment in a career packed with a lot of big moments. Straight ahead on LIVE FROM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

Four thousand eight hundred and sixty-two newsmakers, including every man who has served as president and vice president since Eisenhower, not to mention dozens of princes, senators and members of Congress. I'm talking about all the people who have either been revered or reviled as they took tough questions while in the calm or chaotic crossfire of "FACE THE NATION."

Now, 2,450 broadcasts later, Bob Schieffer, the show's anchor and moderator since 1991, is here to talk about every single show that's also detailed in his new book, "Face the Nation: My Favorite Stories from the First 50 Years of the Award-Winning News Broadcast." I'm just kidding. He's not going to talk about all 2,450 broadcasts, only a few.

But probably the most interesting, I found out he two steps because he's from Fort Worth, Texas. I want to talk more about that.

BOB SCHIEFFER, AUTHOR, "FACE THE NATION": All right.

PHILLIPS: I'm just kidding. We'll get to that stuff later. But seriously, the serious news of the day -- first of all, it's a pleasure to have you here.

SCHIEFFER: Thank you very much, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: And pretty timely, considering what's happening in the Bush administration. Are you surprised at all of these resignations?

SCHIEFFER: Really no, I mean, this is a normal thing. These jobs are killers. I want to guarantee you, there are a lot of people who are going to be leaving because they want to leave. They're just worn out. You can't do these jobs for very long. I must say I am surprised about Colin Powell. There has been all this talk that he was going to leave and all of the problems he was having, but my sense of it was, and I think there are a number of people in Washington who thought especially since the death of Arafat that he might stay around for a while, at least until they could get some sort of initiative going in the Middle East.

So I really am a little surprised at his resignation was announced. I have no idea about the timing.

PHILLIPS: Well, you hear about the big names, especially Colin Powell. And as an American, sometimes you sit back and think, oh my gosh, what's happening within our administration. But at the same time I was asking you, OK, has it ever been worse than this and you said, yes. Actually we can trace back to where Richard Nixon asked everyone to resign.

SCHIEFFER: Yes. And then reappointed some of the people but he asked for the resignations of his entire cabinet. And you saw this at the end of the first Reagan term, you saw changes take place. This is only natural. I think the interesting thing now is not so much -- well, it is so much who replaces Colin Powell, but also, does Don Rumsfeld stay or is he going, too? I think that, when we get the answer to those two questions, we'll have a better idea of what the foreign policy in the second Bush term is going to be like.

PHILLIPS: OK. I'll call you for a follow-up interview when that happens, OK? Good. Now, let's get to the book here. I want to go back to the very first broadcast. You talked about it as McCarthy blacklist and the red scare. We pulled a little clip from your CD that comes with the book and we'll listen to this for a second.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "FACE THE NATION" )

SEN. JOSEPH MCCARTHY (R), WISCONSIN: I've been so busy being investigated, preparing for this lynch bee (ph) starting tomorrow that I hadn't had an opportunity to...

SCHIEFFER: You call a meeting of the United States Senate a lynch bee?

MCCARTHY: Well, let's call it the censure...

SCHIEFFER: No, but I'm interested in this, because the Senate is an institution of government. It's a part of the Congress.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: The first show, the first guest, Senator Joseph McCarthy at an incredible time in American history. Wow, this was a scoop.

SCHIEFFER: Yes. This is what you would call a "big get" today. The Senate was about to take up the resolution on whether he should be censured for launching these witch hunts. He goes on the broadcast, like many people since have gone on it, thinking he could go over the head of his critics, take his case to the American people. He dug himself a much deeper hole.

The senators were furious when he referred to the Senate hearings as a lynching bee, and actually speeded up the censure proceedings. He was censured I think much more quickly than he would have been had he not gone on "FACE THE NATION."

PHILLIPS: Wow, and that's where it all started. And then as always, I was looking through the book, the chapter on Fidel Castro and Ed Sullivan. First of all, let's tell our viewers, I mean, did Ed Sullivan really outscoop the newsmen of CBS?

SCHIEFFER: "FACE THE NATION" thought it had obtained this worldwide scoop. They got to Havana and interviewed Fidel Castro the day he came out of the hills to take power in Havana only to learn later that about six hours earlier, Ed Sullivan, of all people, he had gone into the hills and had interviewed Castro.

It turned out that Sullivan always wanted Ed Murrow to invite him to the end of the year of correspondents roundup when he had Schira (ph) and Eric Sevareid and all the famous journalists in the CBS stable to come in and talk about the state of the world. Ed Sullivan, who had been a gossip columnist for "The New York Daily News" on Broadway thought he ought to be invited. And he thought if I can get a...

PHILLIPS: He wanted to be taken seriously, right?

SCHIEFFER: He thought if I can get a big scoop here then maybe Murrow will invite me to the broadcast. So he goes down and actually did interview Ed Sullivan. "FACE THE NATION" got their broadcast on first that Sunday but that night at 8:00 on "The Ed Sullivan Show," sandwiched between a trained dog act and comedian Alan King, here is old Ed Sullivan interviewing Fidel Castro, asking him, among other things, did he play football in high school and did that help him in the revolution?

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIPS: And that's the way it was. Did he ever gain the respect of Edward R. Morrow ever?

SCHIEFFER: No.

PHILLIPS: Pretty much tanked (ph) at that point, didn't it?

SCHIEFFER: The answer is no, but he made a lot of money, was a very famous man, and probably the most powerful person in all of show business.

PHILLIPS: A little ironic twist there I'm sure.

SCHIEFFER: So that was enough, I guess.

PHILLIPS: Sure, yes, that's true. He was happy. I've got to talk about Vietnam, a much -- you talk about this, you say ongoing search for good news it's interesting when we saw that title, we're thinking wow, I can't tell you how many e-mails I get today from soldiers and Marines and Navy overseas saying where are the good -- well, who is that handsome mug there? Oh, wait a minute.

SCHIEFFER: You see, I haven't changed a bit.

PHILLIPS: You haven't changed at all. Tell me about covering this time. And when you had guests on your show did you ever feel like, OK, am I ever going to get through to the truth here?

SCHIEFFER: You know, every single person from the administration, and this went on over a series of years that appeared on the broadcast, and talked about Vietnam. In the beginning, as you go back to these transcripts, it was apparent they simply did not know what was going on there. And once they came to understand what was going on, they either misstated it or in some cases just lied about what the situation was there.

It was an amazing and sobering thing to see how much and how many times the truth was distorted. I remember one United States senator came on the broadcast in 1967 and said, we are winning in Vietnam, everybody knows it but the American people. And over and over you'd hear this, this search for good news is just around the corner. You can see the light at the end of the tunnel. Before it was over, of course, we realized the light was a train coming our way.

PHILLIPS: But the spin began.

SCHIEFFER: Yes.

PHILLIPS: So I'm curious then, remembering that time, remembering those moments, remembering looking to the eyes of these people and thinking, OK, I am not getting the truth here, when you talk about Iraq and you talk about Afghanistan, do you get that same feeling?

SCHIEFFER: Well, I'll tell you something. People say is this another Vietnam? Iraq is not other Vietnam. This is a totally different situation. For one thing, nobody was worried about the Vietcong coming here and attacking us in this country. This is not Vietnam that we're engaged in right now.

But sometimes, when I see and hear some of the spin coming out it makes me wonder, you know, are we into this same kind of PR campaign. Now I think probably things are looking a little better this week than maybe they looked last week. The good news coming out of Falluja right now is these Iraqi troops apparently performed very well. I think that's the best news I've heard in a long time.

Because in the end, they're going to have to win this war. We can help them, and that's the lesson I learned from Vietnam. You can help people, but you cannot do it for them. And in the end, the Iraqis are going to have to be the ones that do this. They're going to need a lot of help from us but they are the ones that are going to have to do it.

PHILLIPS: Back to the old journalism 101. I remember back in school the talk about, oh, news is going entertainment. You know, there was this whole theory that was out there. It's interesting where we are now. As you look back and you look at where we are now as journalists and how it has to sell and television news, shows like "FACE THE NATION" still very straightforward. You have some fierce loyalists. People still want the non...

SCHIEFFER: That's the interesting thing about these Sunday morning broadcasts, and I must say, CNN has a very good one with old Wolf Blitzer, the hardest working man on television on Sundays.

PHILLIPS: He's going to love that. We need that for a promo.

SCHIEFFER: Sundays are different. We don't try the gotcha business, we don't try to see who can scream the loudest. We don't put the extremists on. We still concentrate on content. And the good news is that seems to be what our viewers want. We're never going to have prime time ratings, but the Sunday broadcasts have become some of the most influential broadcasts on television. I don't think there's any denying that and "FACE THE NATION" is basically the same program today that it was November 7, 1954, when the first one aired. We set them down at the table, we turn on the lights and we ask questions. No bells, whistles or gimmicks.

PHILLIPS: Bob Schieffer, the book is "FACE THE NATION." Catchy title. Where did you get that from? "My Favorite Stories from the First 50 Years of the Award-Winning News Broadcast." It comes with a DVD with some really neat clips. Of course I'm getting the wrap, right, because we have to go to the commercial break that pays the bills. But I do have some questions for you and will incorporate it later in the newscast if you don't mind sticking around for a few more minutes.

SCHIEFFER: You bet, sure.

PHILLIPS: Thanks, Bob.

More LIVE FROM after a quick break.

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PHILLIPS: All right.

O'BRIEN: The president won the election. We're just kind of...

PHILLIPS: We're still talking to Bob Schieffer. We got a little distracted there.

O'BRIEN: Well, we're really not even qualified to carry his briefcase. But we're going to carry on nonetheless. The president won the election, the cabinet needs a little bit of repair, har har. We'll keep you posted on who -- would Bob Schieffer read that? No. We'll keep you posted who's in, who's out and some possible replacements.

PHILLIPS: Also the dangers of whiplash coming to a car near you. A new study shows much room to improve on many vehicles. Stay with us.

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