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Marines Offer Surrender to Insurgents in Falluja

Aired November 17, 2004 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: These are the stories now in the news, a House hearing is getting under way right now. You are looking at a live picture. This is aimed at understanding the flu vaccine shortage and trying to fix it in the future.
Julie Gerberding, the director of the C.D.C. says the flu season has been mild so far, but she is calling for continued vigilance.

And confirmation hearings for Condoleezza Rice will begin early next month. The Senate is expected to start the hearings on December 6, 7 or 8 on Capitol Hill. And she is expected to be approved as secretary of state after a lot of questioning.

All right, two explosions at banks in Buenos Aires have left one person dead. The blast went off at a Citibank branch and a branch of Galacia Bank, the largest private bank in Argentia -- Argentina.

Now, so far no one claims responsibility, but the bombs come as China's president, Hu Jintao, visits Buenos Aires.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: In Iraq, U.S. commanders say they have secured the city of Falluja, but sporadic battles remain a dangerous fact of life there. The Marines of India Company fought insurgents for more than six hours on Monday.

British reporter, Lindsey Hilsum, of channel 4 news was there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LINDSEY HILSUM, REPORTER, CHANNEL 4 NEWS (voice-over): The Marines have been told to comb the mosque for weapons. And as they do, the firing starts.

It turns into a firefight. The armored vehicle arrives with more ammunition because the houses around the mosque are full of fighters. A group of Marines is pinned down on a flat rooftop. We're filming from an armored vehicle on the streets below.

The heavier weapons fire a barrage at the insurgents. They call it suppressive fire. A Marine has been injured, and his colleagues need to administer first aid and get him out.

But the rest of the group now needs to get out, too, under intense fire. The fire (ph) team crosses the street. They're going to hit the insurgents with an anti-tank missile.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Aiming in that window. UNIDENTIFLED MALE: That angle right there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Looks like a doorway.

HILSUM: The back blast of the missile results everyone in dust.

They call in an air strike. And the troops must quickly leave the danger area. Fearing the insurgents may still be active, they run down the street. The debris of the day's battle lays in their path, a rocket launcher, a flattened Kalashnikov.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's probably a good 20 or 30 down in that last corner. And they're pinched right now. We tried talking to them with our interpreter, get them to surrender, walk out on the street.

They're telling us they'd rather die than come out and surrender, so they're going die.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Five seconds.

HILSUM: Night is falling. As the Marines go on foot to see whether the combined power of all of their weaponry has destroyed their enemies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'll going to have to check out the bodies, sir.

HILSUM: In the wreckage of the houses along the streets near the mosque, they find the bodies of 21 fighters. The end of the Muslim fast of Ramadan is marked by the sickle moon. Americans control Falluja, the ruined city of mosques.

Lindsey Hilsum, channel four news, Falluja.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Americans control Falluja. That is an interesting word.

Let me talk to retired brigadier general James Marks in Washington. He is the former chief of U.S. Army intelligence, the school there.

General, you take a look at that scene and the word control may be perplexing to a lot of Americans, especially when you see that's the scene in Falluja. And then you've got 31 Iraqi police officers kidnapped in the last 24 hours and violence breaking out all over the country still.

So what is the payback? It seems like the insurgents are doing just fine without their home base in Falluja.

BRIG. GEN. JAMES MARKS, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Carol, the word control is an all-encompassing term. And really what it means is there are elements of control, and there are pockets of control.

The corollary is true as well. There will be resistance at various parts throughout Falluja. But the Marine forces and the coalition forces -- all of the coalition forces on the ground -- really will have to maintain a very tight control and a very precise control at very specific locations throughout Falluja to keep the insurgents from coming back in and to keep them from popping their heads up, because they still exist in the city.

LIN: They still exist. And clearly they're operating freely across the country. So, if 80 percent of the insurgents left Falluja before the battle, who is it exactly who is on the run?

Is it coalition forces or is it the insurgency?

MARKS: Carol, you used the term "operating freely" throughout Iraq. I will tell you that there are elements of resistance, and the insurgents are, in fact, creating chaos at various portions, throughout the Sunni triangle, very specifically.

But the coalition forces are in place and executing combat operations to take those problems on. And they're doing a very aggressive job of it. And the intent in Falluja was to let the insurgency know that the coalition forces were coming in.

If you keep the insurgents on the run, if you force them to move, you don't give them an opportunity to plant a flag and try to establish some increased command and control, than the coalition forces are doing their job.

Understand that the center of gravity in this fight is not necessarily the leadership. It's not Zarqawi. It is not the Sunni cleric, Janobi (ph). It is, in fact, the ability of the insurgency to maintain sanctuary, which is what they will try to do in the urban areas.

LIN: So, how do you know when the war is over?

MARKS: Great question. You really don't. It's not like somebody drops the other shoe and says, ok, we're finished here. We're going to move on to some other area. It is a very drawn out process of maintaining pressure on the insurgency wherever it pops up.

But understand that in parallel what needs to take place is the growth of the Iraqi face on this fight and the growth of Iraqi governance throughout the countryside.

LIN: Yes.

MARKS: That's happening unparalleled.

LIN: An ideal picture but, at the same time, a majority of the casualties are still U.S. soldiers. So what does that tell you about how well the Iraqi forces are actually operating out in the field right now?

MARKS: I think it's an inappropriate metric to apply, to success on the ground, the number of casualties. Any casualties... LIN: But the Iraqi forces, weren't they the ones, supposed to -- they were supposed to be the ones leading the battle; and it was the U.S. forces that were supposed to be backing them up.

MARKS: Nobody made any pretense about the involvement of the Iraqi forces in terms of their complementary skills and what they would bring to bear.

LIN: Yes.

MARKS: What you have is the coalition forces complemented by Iraqi forces. And the heavy lifting is done by the coalition forces. We understand that, and you understand that.

The Iraqi forces will continue to increase their presence within the formation and will begin to start taking over some of the more aggressive security responsibilities.

LIN: Yes.

MARKS: But again, I need to emphasize that the number of casualties that a formation suffers is not a metric of how well or how aggressively they're fighting.

What needs to be understood is that in a counterinsurgency, in urban combat like we are seeing right now...

LIN: Yes.

MARKS: ... everyone involved -- everyone involved -- is a potential for engagement. There is no front, and there is no rear. The enemy is all over. And so, you need to fight them all over.

LIN: All right. You're pointing out exactly the new type of warfare, frankly, that Americans are now witnessing firsthand because of the embeds and the coverage of this war.

Thank you, general. Thank you very much -- Miles?

O'BRIEN: Well, as if there's not enough crazy stuff going on in the world, now we have locusts to worry about. Some are calling it positively biblical.

More on this as we go around the world Old Testament style.

Sleep off extra pounds? Yes, sleep it off. Could this be for real? It's one of those lose weight schemes, right?

Well, we'd like details on this. Of course, you've got to wait for more LIVE FROM. Take quick nap during the commercials, come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: We're getting word now from Washington about the House's response to a possible ruling that affects Tom Delay. It turns out that the Republican leader will be able to retain his leadership position if he is indicted by a Texas grand jury on corruption charges.

Now it's complicated, and we are following these developments, so please stay with CNN as details emerge. But he gets to stay on the job.

O'BRIEN: Well, we'll be watching it.

LIN: (Unintelligible).

O'BRIEN: All right. Excuse me.

News across America, now -- a seasonal tradition in Washington, the annual pachyderm pumpkin stomp at the National Zoo. Zoo officials say it's a fun way to get rid of those left over jack-o-lanterns, and it simulates the animals natural behaviors.

LIN: What?

O'BRIEN: I have no idea. Note to self, do not order the pumpkin pie at the national zoo, ever.

In Chicago, New York Yankee, Gary Sheffield, comes out swinging and says he will not cave to an extortion attempt. Thirty-eight year old Derrick Mosley (ph) has a bond hearing tomorrow.

He allegedly threatened to go public with an old videotape of Sheffield's wife having sex with an unidentified professional musician. All kinds of questions left here, huh?

Sheffield released a statement saying he knew about that old relationship before he married his wife, and he's vowed to stand by her.

And the L.A.P.D. on the lookout for this thief. Now, luckily for them, Mr. Criminal Mastermind here forgot to wear the stocking face mask like they do in movies.

He's wanted for a host of alleged offensives, including the theft of at least 30 cartons of smokes and a bunch of scratch off tickets. It's nice to say he's not going to win that jackpot.

All right, news from the medical front for you now -- some curious new research connects obesity and sleep -- I guess more accurately, the lack of sleep and obesity.

Also, something about doctors recommending an addition to the family to help overweight patients. All of this has us scratching our heads.

And here to help us sort this out is Elizabeth Cohen, with all kinds of medical news for us. Sleep longer, lose weight. It sounds like one of those, you know, ads you see in a magazine that your mother said, hang on to your wallet on that one.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORREPSONDENT: That's right, exactly. Although in this case, no one would make money because it's just telling people to sleep more, which is...

O'BRIEN: That's true, unless there was some kind of sleep program...

COHEN: Right, like a device or something like that.

O'BRIEN: Yes, yes.

COHEN: But what researchers at Columbia University noticed was, hey, we're an overweight nation. We're also a sleep deprived nation. Could there be a connection?

So, they looked at data from 9,000 people and asked two questions: how much sleep do you get each night, and how much do you weigh?

And what they found was that people who hat got the least amount of sleep were the most likely to be obese. And the numbers are actually pretty stunning.

Folks who got only six hours of sleep a night were 27 percent more likely to be obese compared to people who got eight hours of sleep a night.

People who slept only two to five hours a night were very sleepy and 73 percent more likely to be obese. Now, of course, the question is, gee, why would this be true? And the answer appears partially to have to do with hormones.

There's a hormone that tells you stop. You're satisfied. Stop eating. Well, levels of that hormone go down when you're tired.

There's another hormone that says, hey, eat more. Eat more. And levels of that hormone appear to go up when you're sleeping.

O'BRIEN: So, you could -- why don't we just buy the hormones, and then we can just sort of just regulate this?

All right, well then -- so, the bottom line is for a lot of people out there, they're saying, would that I could get more sleep. I'm having difficulty sleeping.

Now, does this work, let's just say, if you require something like Ambient to use, to get to sleep; or are there some other sleep tips you can offer?

COHEN: There are definitely other things you want to do before you turn to drugs. I mean, the drugs help, but there are other things you want to try: a glass of warm milk just like your mother told you. There is one you can try.

Another one you can try is go to bed and wake up at the same time. That really helps. People notice it with their kids, and it's true for adults, too.

Avoid caffeine or exercise right before you go to bed. O'BRIEN: Well, duh?

COHEN: Duh. Well, you would be surprised. You'd be surprised. Some people think, well, I'll exercise a lot, and that will get me really tired. Doing it right before bed is really going to kind of amp you up.

Also, get regular exercise during the day, and then wait a couple hours before you go to sleep. So, don't do it right before you go to sleep, do it during the day.

O'BRIEN: All right. Now, one other thing. This is an interesting one. If you go on a diet with your pet -- now if you have a fat dog at home, like we do.

COHEN: Listen up.

O'BRIEN: I call her the sausage. And I give her scraps, too. And of course, I'm eating what she's eating. And maybe we should both go on a diet.

COHEN: Well, actually, this wouldn't really work for you. Your dog may need to lose weight, but you don't need to lose weight.

However, if you need to lose weight and your dog needs to lose weight, too, you might want to keep in mind some advice from researchers at Northwestern University.

What they did is they took overweight pets and overweight people, put them on a diet together. Gave them special doggie food that was lower in calories. Put the people on a diet. Told them to exercise together. Go for a walk. Go for a run.

And they found that it really worked. The pets lost weight. The people lost weight. And it really makes sense because they know that people lose weight better when they have a human buddy to do it with them or an online support group or an in person support group.

So support is important whether it's from dog or a person.

O'BRIEN: And it works great. Once you get over the taste of Kibbles and Bits, it's wonderful. It really is.

COHEN: It's terrible.

And once the dog learns to like apples, that will work, too.

LIN: Was this a federally funded study? That's what I want to know.

COHEN: I don't believe so. No, it wasn't. Taxpayer money did not go to this study.

O'BRIEN: It was IAMs that put it out.

LIN: Yes. O'BRIEN: All right. Elizabeth Cohen, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

COHEN: Thanks.

LIN: When does the dog learn to say, you look marvelous? That's the support that I want.

O'BRIEN: And every time they wag their tails.

LIN: There you go.

O'BRIEN: Yes.

LIN: All right. Thanks, Elizabeth.

We've got some other news from around the world. Those lips, those eyes, those polygons. Sit down, Miles.

The most cyber sultry and computer curvaceous are vying for the title of Miss Digital World, and it's coming down to the wire.

It was only a matter of time given the immense popularity of female characters in video games. Fans of the phony femmes have been voting for their favorites for a year.

Does she have any clothes on?

The winner of the first ever, all avatar beauty contest will be announced next month. Don't look for Laura Croft. She is so yesterday, Miles.

O'BRIEN: Some fine pixels there. Indeed.

LIN: All right. Don't be bug eyed.

But take a look at this. This is just plain creepy, and creepier than the computer girl beauty contest. Yes, locusts -- millions of them, billions of them are pestering the city of Cairo.

We should call Ben Wedeman our bureau chief there.

O'BRIEN: I'm sure he's on it.

LIN: The unusually large swarms of the insects are a bit off course and driving people in the Egyptian capital simply crazy. Experts don't expect the bugs to hang around, but they already worn out their welcome.

Now, if they are off course, where were they were supposed to be because they would be somewhere if not in Cairo? We'll get Ben Wedeman on that...

O'BRIEN: That's a good question. I'm sure it would stir up some trouble in the Middle East one way or another. All right. Let's get it over to Rhonda Schaffler right now for a positively biblical look at what's going on at the New York Stock Exchange.

Hello, Rhonda.

RHONDA SCHAFFLER, CNN FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT: Let me tell you, there might be locusts in Cairo, but there are bulls all over Wall Street. We've got a huge rally under way.

Also, word of a possible strike in the sky - details coming up right after the break.

Stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Well, you know what your mother told you. A penny saved is a penny earned. Is that a Ben Franklin thing? Probably is.

Anyway, Eugene Sukie of Barberton, Ohio is rolling in found dough today. For 34 years Mr. Sukie saved, counted, wrapped and stored every penny that came his way. And yesterday the 78-year-old retiree cashed it all in.

And we do mean all. You see the pictures there. The pennies weighed more than 3.5 tons. He managed to schlep it all down to the local Coinstar machine. After the jingling stopped, Mr. Sukie had more than $11,000 to show for his efforts.

LIN: But...

O'BRIEN: $11,000.

LIN: ... had he invested in Wall Street, he'd be richer than Sam Walton.

O'BRIEN: If he'd sent those pennies to a brokerage house, yes. But of course, they would have taken a commission as did Coinstar, 8.9 percent, which is about $900.

Now, you might think that seems a little pricey, but because we're telling the story, Coinstar, in turn, gave Mr. Sukie $1,500 for the rights to use him as a promotional tool.

LIN: So not specifically CNN.

O'BRIEN: Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Did I make that unclear? No, no, no. Just in general because he's got notoriety.

LIN: Yes, there you go.

O'BRIEN: OK. History lesson for you now. We all know that early man migrated from Africa, over Europe across the Bering Straits and eventually what is now to the Americas, heading south because it gets warmer, right. Well, not so fast. Archaeologists digging in rural South Carolina believe they have evidence that will turn theory like that on its Paleo-Indian ear. Our technology correspondent, Daniel Sieberg, just attended an event in Columbia that has the scientific community buzzing.

He's on the road and on the phone with an instrument that early man could never have envisioned 50,000 years ago, the cell phone. Daniel, what can you tell us?

DANIEL SIEBERG, CNN TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT: That's right. A relatively new cell phone, not 50,000 years old. But this morning, researchers at the University of South Carolina say that radio carbon tests show that sediments in the area where they were looking are 50,000 years old suggesting that the artifacts found there were used by humans at that time.

That's 30,000 years older than what they had previously found in this site and could really change the way we look at how humans came to North America, as you were saying. The site is known as Topper (ph), and is in South Carolina along the banks of the Savannah River.

The lead archaeologist, Dr. Albert Goodyear, he's been looking there for many years. He says these finding are significant because it puts humans in North America well before the last ice age. And, as you might imagine, there are major ramifications on the migration and the origin of humans in North America.

Now, we need to point out -- it's very important -- these findings have not been what is known as peer reviewed. That means checked by researchers outside the University of South Carolina. We did talk to some other scientists who were cautious, intrigued. They were excited to see the findings when they do come out, when they are published, which Dr. Goodyear says will be in early 2005.

A quick explanation of the samples that were found -- every living entity gives off carbon. In order to radio carbon date something, samples of this carbon have to be done. In this case, it was found in some burned plants, like buck-eye oak and plum.

And to get these samples, believe it or not, a backhoe was used to actually dig down about four meters, or about 12 to 13 feet. This was done very surgically, mind you, not like a construction site.

Further analysis and carbon dating of the sediment showed these, this 50,000-year-old age. And these squig like (ph) tools that were found, some of them are very small, and that prompted Dr. Goodyear to release his findings.

It's very tough work. This may not be time to rewrite history, necessarily, but Dr. Goodyear says it's time to add another chapter to the books. And he hopes that it's going to encourage others archaeologists to dig around.

O'BRIEN: All right. Daniel Sieberg on his way back from South Carolina where history may be rewritten. I guess you could call that science pay dirt. LIN: Yes. You know, they don't want to make commitments, but really it is rewriting history.

O'BRIEN: Well, you've got to be careful...

LIN: Anyway. OK.

O'BRIEN: ... because if it isn't peer reviewed, just remember cold fusion (ph).

Well, nevertheless, let's press on because we are way late.

LIN: Yes, second hour of LIVE FROM. Lots of questions about some evidence found in Falluja that may have something to do with this man and what happened to this Marine when he disappeared.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired November 17, 2004 - 13:30   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: These are the stories now in the news, a House hearing is getting under way right now. You are looking at a live picture. This is aimed at understanding the flu vaccine shortage and trying to fix it in the future.
Julie Gerberding, the director of the C.D.C. says the flu season has been mild so far, but she is calling for continued vigilance.

And confirmation hearings for Condoleezza Rice will begin early next month. The Senate is expected to start the hearings on December 6, 7 or 8 on Capitol Hill. And she is expected to be approved as secretary of state after a lot of questioning.

All right, two explosions at banks in Buenos Aires have left one person dead. The blast went off at a Citibank branch and a branch of Galacia Bank, the largest private bank in Argentia -- Argentina.

Now, so far no one claims responsibility, but the bombs come as China's president, Hu Jintao, visits Buenos Aires.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: In Iraq, U.S. commanders say they have secured the city of Falluja, but sporadic battles remain a dangerous fact of life there. The Marines of India Company fought insurgents for more than six hours on Monday.

British reporter, Lindsey Hilsum, of channel 4 news was there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LINDSEY HILSUM, REPORTER, CHANNEL 4 NEWS (voice-over): The Marines have been told to comb the mosque for weapons. And as they do, the firing starts.

It turns into a firefight. The armored vehicle arrives with more ammunition because the houses around the mosque are full of fighters. A group of Marines is pinned down on a flat rooftop. We're filming from an armored vehicle on the streets below.

The heavier weapons fire a barrage at the insurgents. They call it suppressive fire. A Marine has been injured, and his colleagues need to administer first aid and get him out.

But the rest of the group now needs to get out, too, under intense fire. The fire (ph) team crosses the street. They're going to hit the insurgents with an anti-tank missile.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Aiming in that window. UNIDENTIFLED MALE: That angle right there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Looks like a doorway.

HILSUM: The back blast of the missile results everyone in dust.

They call in an air strike. And the troops must quickly leave the danger area. Fearing the insurgents may still be active, they run down the street. The debris of the day's battle lays in their path, a rocket launcher, a flattened Kalashnikov.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's probably a good 20 or 30 down in that last corner. And they're pinched right now. We tried talking to them with our interpreter, get them to surrender, walk out on the street.

They're telling us they'd rather die than come out and surrender, so they're going die.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Five seconds.

HILSUM: Night is falling. As the Marines go on foot to see whether the combined power of all of their weaponry has destroyed their enemies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'll going to have to check out the bodies, sir.

HILSUM: In the wreckage of the houses along the streets near the mosque, they find the bodies of 21 fighters. The end of the Muslim fast of Ramadan is marked by the sickle moon. Americans control Falluja, the ruined city of mosques.

Lindsey Hilsum, channel four news, Falluja.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Americans control Falluja. That is an interesting word.

Let me talk to retired brigadier general James Marks in Washington. He is the former chief of U.S. Army intelligence, the school there.

General, you take a look at that scene and the word control may be perplexing to a lot of Americans, especially when you see that's the scene in Falluja. And then you've got 31 Iraqi police officers kidnapped in the last 24 hours and violence breaking out all over the country still.

So what is the payback? It seems like the insurgents are doing just fine without their home base in Falluja.

BRIG. GEN. JAMES MARKS, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Carol, the word control is an all-encompassing term. And really what it means is there are elements of control, and there are pockets of control.

The corollary is true as well. There will be resistance at various parts throughout Falluja. But the Marine forces and the coalition forces -- all of the coalition forces on the ground -- really will have to maintain a very tight control and a very precise control at very specific locations throughout Falluja to keep the insurgents from coming back in and to keep them from popping their heads up, because they still exist in the city.

LIN: They still exist. And clearly they're operating freely across the country. So, if 80 percent of the insurgents left Falluja before the battle, who is it exactly who is on the run?

Is it coalition forces or is it the insurgency?

MARKS: Carol, you used the term "operating freely" throughout Iraq. I will tell you that there are elements of resistance, and the insurgents are, in fact, creating chaos at various portions, throughout the Sunni triangle, very specifically.

But the coalition forces are in place and executing combat operations to take those problems on. And they're doing a very aggressive job of it. And the intent in Falluja was to let the insurgency know that the coalition forces were coming in.

If you keep the insurgents on the run, if you force them to move, you don't give them an opportunity to plant a flag and try to establish some increased command and control, than the coalition forces are doing their job.

Understand that the center of gravity in this fight is not necessarily the leadership. It's not Zarqawi. It is not the Sunni cleric, Janobi (ph). It is, in fact, the ability of the insurgency to maintain sanctuary, which is what they will try to do in the urban areas.

LIN: So, how do you know when the war is over?

MARKS: Great question. You really don't. It's not like somebody drops the other shoe and says, ok, we're finished here. We're going to move on to some other area. It is a very drawn out process of maintaining pressure on the insurgency wherever it pops up.

But understand that in parallel what needs to take place is the growth of the Iraqi face on this fight and the growth of Iraqi governance throughout the countryside.

LIN: Yes.

MARKS: That's happening unparalleled.

LIN: An ideal picture but, at the same time, a majority of the casualties are still U.S. soldiers. So what does that tell you about how well the Iraqi forces are actually operating out in the field right now?

MARKS: I think it's an inappropriate metric to apply, to success on the ground, the number of casualties. Any casualties... LIN: But the Iraqi forces, weren't they the ones, supposed to -- they were supposed to be the ones leading the battle; and it was the U.S. forces that were supposed to be backing them up.

MARKS: Nobody made any pretense about the involvement of the Iraqi forces in terms of their complementary skills and what they would bring to bear.

LIN: Yes.

MARKS: What you have is the coalition forces complemented by Iraqi forces. And the heavy lifting is done by the coalition forces. We understand that, and you understand that.

The Iraqi forces will continue to increase their presence within the formation and will begin to start taking over some of the more aggressive security responsibilities.

LIN: Yes.

MARKS: But again, I need to emphasize that the number of casualties that a formation suffers is not a metric of how well or how aggressively they're fighting.

What needs to be understood is that in a counterinsurgency, in urban combat like we are seeing right now...

LIN: Yes.

MARKS: ... everyone involved -- everyone involved -- is a potential for engagement. There is no front, and there is no rear. The enemy is all over. And so, you need to fight them all over.

LIN: All right. You're pointing out exactly the new type of warfare, frankly, that Americans are now witnessing firsthand because of the embeds and the coverage of this war.

Thank you, general. Thank you very much -- Miles?

O'BRIEN: Well, as if there's not enough crazy stuff going on in the world, now we have locusts to worry about. Some are calling it positively biblical.

More on this as we go around the world Old Testament style.

Sleep off extra pounds? Yes, sleep it off. Could this be for real? It's one of those lose weight schemes, right?

Well, we'd like details on this. Of course, you've got to wait for more LIVE FROM. Take quick nap during the commercials, come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: We're getting word now from Washington about the House's response to a possible ruling that affects Tom Delay. It turns out that the Republican leader will be able to retain his leadership position if he is indicted by a Texas grand jury on corruption charges.

Now it's complicated, and we are following these developments, so please stay with CNN as details emerge. But he gets to stay on the job.

O'BRIEN: Well, we'll be watching it.

LIN: (Unintelligible).

O'BRIEN: All right. Excuse me.

News across America, now -- a seasonal tradition in Washington, the annual pachyderm pumpkin stomp at the National Zoo. Zoo officials say it's a fun way to get rid of those left over jack-o-lanterns, and it simulates the animals natural behaviors.

LIN: What?

O'BRIEN: I have no idea. Note to self, do not order the pumpkin pie at the national zoo, ever.

In Chicago, New York Yankee, Gary Sheffield, comes out swinging and says he will not cave to an extortion attempt. Thirty-eight year old Derrick Mosley (ph) has a bond hearing tomorrow.

He allegedly threatened to go public with an old videotape of Sheffield's wife having sex with an unidentified professional musician. All kinds of questions left here, huh?

Sheffield released a statement saying he knew about that old relationship before he married his wife, and he's vowed to stand by her.

And the L.A.P.D. on the lookout for this thief. Now, luckily for them, Mr. Criminal Mastermind here forgot to wear the stocking face mask like they do in movies.

He's wanted for a host of alleged offensives, including the theft of at least 30 cartons of smokes and a bunch of scratch off tickets. It's nice to say he's not going to win that jackpot.

All right, news from the medical front for you now -- some curious new research connects obesity and sleep -- I guess more accurately, the lack of sleep and obesity.

Also, something about doctors recommending an addition to the family to help overweight patients. All of this has us scratching our heads.

And here to help us sort this out is Elizabeth Cohen, with all kinds of medical news for us. Sleep longer, lose weight. It sounds like one of those, you know, ads you see in a magazine that your mother said, hang on to your wallet on that one.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORREPSONDENT: That's right, exactly. Although in this case, no one would make money because it's just telling people to sleep more, which is...

O'BRIEN: That's true, unless there was some kind of sleep program...

COHEN: Right, like a device or something like that.

O'BRIEN: Yes, yes.

COHEN: But what researchers at Columbia University noticed was, hey, we're an overweight nation. We're also a sleep deprived nation. Could there be a connection?

So, they looked at data from 9,000 people and asked two questions: how much sleep do you get each night, and how much do you weigh?

And what they found was that people who hat got the least amount of sleep were the most likely to be obese. And the numbers are actually pretty stunning.

Folks who got only six hours of sleep a night were 27 percent more likely to be obese compared to people who got eight hours of sleep a night.

People who slept only two to five hours a night were very sleepy and 73 percent more likely to be obese. Now, of course, the question is, gee, why would this be true? And the answer appears partially to have to do with hormones.

There's a hormone that tells you stop. You're satisfied. Stop eating. Well, levels of that hormone go down when you're tired.

There's another hormone that says, hey, eat more. Eat more. And levels of that hormone appear to go up when you're sleeping.

O'BRIEN: So, you could -- why don't we just buy the hormones, and then we can just sort of just regulate this?

All right, well then -- so, the bottom line is for a lot of people out there, they're saying, would that I could get more sleep. I'm having difficulty sleeping.

Now, does this work, let's just say, if you require something like Ambient to use, to get to sleep; or are there some other sleep tips you can offer?

COHEN: There are definitely other things you want to do before you turn to drugs. I mean, the drugs help, but there are other things you want to try: a glass of warm milk just like your mother told you. There is one you can try.

Another one you can try is go to bed and wake up at the same time. That really helps. People notice it with their kids, and it's true for adults, too.

Avoid caffeine or exercise right before you go to bed. O'BRIEN: Well, duh?

COHEN: Duh. Well, you would be surprised. You'd be surprised. Some people think, well, I'll exercise a lot, and that will get me really tired. Doing it right before bed is really going to kind of amp you up.

Also, get regular exercise during the day, and then wait a couple hours before you go to sleep. So, don't do it right before you go to sleep, do it during the day.

O'BRIEN: All right. Now, one other thing. This is an interesting one. If you go on a diet with your pet -- now if you have a fat dog at home, like we do.

COHEN: Listen up.

O'BRIEN: I call her the sausage. And I give her scraps, too. And of course, I'm eating what she's eating. And maybe we should both go on a diet.

COHEN: Well, actually, this wouldn't really work for you. Your dog may need to lose weight, but you don't need to lose weight.

However, if you need to lose weight and your dog needs to lose weight, too, you might want to keep in mind some advice from researchers at Northwestern University.

What they did is they took overweight pets and overweight people, put them on a diet together. Gave them special doggie food that was lower in calories. Put the people on a diet. Told them to exercise together. Go for a walk. Go for a run.

And they found that it really worked. The pets lost weight. The people lost weight. And it really makes sense because they know that people lose weight better when they have a human buddy to do it with them or an online support group or an in person support group.

So support is important whether it's from dog or a person.

O'BRIEN: And it works great. Once you get over the taste of Kibbles and Bits, it's wonderful. It really is.

COHEN: It's terrible.

And once the dog learns to like apples, that will work, too.

LIN: Was this a federally funded study? That's what I want to know.

COHEN: I don't believe so. No, it wasn't. Taxpayer money did not go to this study.

O'BRIEN: It was IAMs that put it out.

LIN: Yes. O'BRIEN: All right. Elizabeth Cohen, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

COHEN: Thanks.

LIN: When does the dog learn to say, you look marvelous? That's the support that I want.

O'BRIEN: And every time they wag their tails.

LIN: There you go.

O'BRIEN: Yes.

LIN: All right. Thanks, Elizabeth.

We've got some other news from around the world. Those lips, those eyes, those polygons. Sit down, Miles.

The most cyber sultry and computer curvaceous are vying for the title of Miss Digital World, and it's coming down to the wire.

It was only a matter of time given the immense popularity of female characters in video games. Fans of the phony femmes have been voting for their favorites for a year.

Does she have any clothes on?

The winner of the first ever, all avatar beauty contest will be announced next month. Don't look for Laura Croft. She is so yesterday, Miles.

O'BRIEN: Some fine pixels there. Indeed.

LIN: All right. Don't be bug eyed.

But take a look at this. This is just plain creepy, and creepier than the computer girl beauty contest. Yes, locusts -- millions of them, billions of them are pestering the city of Cairo.

We should call Ben Wedeman our bureau chief there.

O'BRIEN: I'm sure he's on it.

LIN: The unusually large swarms of the insects are a bit off course and driving people in the Egyptian capital simply crazy. Experts don't expect the bugs to hang around, but they already worn out their welcome.

Now, if they are off course, where were they were supposed to be because they would be somewhere if not in Cairo? We'll get Ben Wedeman on that...

O'BRIEN: That's a good question. I'm sure it would stir up some trouble in the Middle East one way or another. All right. Let's get it over to Rhonda Schaffler right now for a positively biblical look at what's going on at the New York Stock Exchange.

Hello, Rhonda.

RHONDA SCHAFFLER, CNN FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT: Let me tell you, there might be locusts in Cairo, but there are bulls all over Wall Street. We've got a huge rally under way.

Also, word of a possible strike in the sky - details coming up right after the break.

Stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Well, you know what your mother told you. A penny saved is a penny earned. Is that a Ben Franklin thing? Probably is.

Anyway, Eugene Sukie of Barberton, Ohio is rolling in found dough today. For 34 years Mr. Sukie saved, counted, wrapped and stored every penny that came his way. And yesterday the 78-year-old retiree cashed it all in.

And we do mean all. You see the pictures there. The pennies weighed more than 3.5 tons. He managed to schlep it all down to the local Coinstar machine. After the jingling stopped, Mr. Sukie had more than $11,000 to show for his efforts.

LIN: But...

O'BRIEN: $11,000.

LIN: ... had he invested in Wall Street, he'd be richer than Sam Walton.

O'BRIEN: If he'd sent those pennies to a brokerage house, yes. But of course, they would have taken a commission as did Coinstar, 8.9 percent, which is about $900.

Now, you might think that seems a little pricey, but because we're telling the story, Coinstar, in turn, gave Mr. Sukie $1,500 for the rights to use him as a promotional tool.

LIN: So not specifically CNN.

O'BRIEN: Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Did I make that unclear? No, no, no. Just in general because he's got notoriety.

LIN: Yes, there you go.

O'BRIEN: OK. History lesson for you now. We all know that early man migrated from Africa, over Europe across the Bering Straits and eventually what is now to the Americas, heading south because it gets warmer, right. Well, not so fast. Archaeologists digging in rural South Carolina believe they have evidence that will turn theory like that on its Paleo-Indian ear. Our technology correspondent, Daniel Sieberg, just attended an event in Columbia that has the scientific community buzzing.

He's on the road and on the phone with an instrument that early man could never have envisioned 50,000 years ago, the cell phone. Daniel, what can you tell us?

DANIEL SIEBERG, CNN TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT: That's right. A relatively new cell phone, not 50,000 years old. But this morning, researchers at the University of South Carolina say that radio carbon tests show that sediments in the area where they were looking are 50,000 years old suggesting that the artifacts found there were used by humans at that time.

That's 30,000 years older than what they had previously found in this site and could really change the way we look at how humans came to North America, as you were saying. The site is known as Topper (ph), and is in South Carolina along the banks of the Savannah River.

The lead archaeologist, Dr. Albert Goodyear, he's been looking there for many years. He says these finding are significant because it puts humans in North America well before the last ice age. And, as you might imagine, there are major ramifications on the migration and the origin of humans in North America.

Now, we need to point out -- it's very important -- these findings have not been what is known as peer reviewed. That means checked by researchers outside the University of South Carolina. We did talk to some other scientists who were cautious, intrigued. They were excited to see the findings when they do come out, when they are published, which Dr. Goodyear says will be in early 2005.

A quick explanation of the samples that were found -- every living entity gives off carbon. In order to radio carbon date something, samples of this carbon have to be done. In this case, it was found in some burned plants, like buck-eye oak and plum.

And to get these samples, believe it or not, a backhoe was used to actually dig down about four meters, or about 12 to 13 feet. This was done very surgically, mind you, not like a construction site.

Further analysis and carbon dating of the sediment showed these, this 50,000-year-old age. And these squig like (ph) tools that were found, some of them are very small, and that prompted Dr. Goodyear to release his findings.

It's very tough work. This may not be time to rewrite history, necessarily, but Dr. Goodyear says it's time to add another chapter to the books. And he hopes that it's going to encourage others archaeologists to dig around.

O'BRIEN: All right. Daniel Sieberg on his way back from South Carolina where history may be rewritten. I guess you could call that science pay dirt. LIN: Yes. You know, they don't want to make commitments, but really it is rewriting history.

O'BRIEN: Well, you've got to be careful...

LIN: Anyway. OK.

O'BRIEN: ... because if it isn't peer reviewed, just remember cold fusion (ph).

Well, nevertheless, let's press on because we are way late.

LIN: Yes, second hour of LIVE FROM. Lots of questions about some evidence found in Falluja that may have something to do with this man and what happened to this Marine when he disappeared.

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