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House Republicans Block Intelligence Reform Bill; Basketbrawl; Hunters Shot
Aired November 22, 2004 - 13:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Well, if at first you don't succeed, try again. That's the mood in Washington now amongst supporters of a bill aimed at overhauling U.S. intelligence. A group of House Republicans blocked the measure during a rare Saturday session of Congress. CNN congressional correspondent Joe Johns joins us now with the details on that and the mystery involving another bill -- Joe.
JOE JOHNS, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, members of Congress well aware of the president's intention and interest of getting an intelligence reform bill though the Congress and on his desk. However, after the bill was blocked over the weekend by House Republicans, some here are saying the president, the White House and the Defense Department need to get on the same page before making demands on Capitol Hill.
Still, a number of people think this bill can still be done, including House Speaker Dennis Hastert, who plans to try to bring it up sometime the first week of December. Also, the Senate minority -- or majority whip, I'm sorry -- Mitch McConnell of Kentucky talked to CNN earlier today and said he also thinks that bill can get through the Senate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R), KENTUCKY: It's essentially a turf battle, but look, a lot of people have look at this over a period of time. This bill is a step in the right direction. I'm optimistic that we're going to come back together December the 6th and 7th and pass this bill and send it on down to the president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNS: Now, the collapse of the bill on Saturday obviously has prompted continuing criticism of the Congress, not just here on Capitol Hill but also from the 9/11 commissioners. Many of them say this Congress really needs to get the work done and also says the president needs to do more.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN F. LEHMAN, 9/11 COMMISSION: This is a classic confrontation you see in Washington that they can sell tickets for because the president now has been challenged directly by the leadership of the -- of the Congress and by the lobbyists and by the bureaucracy. Now he's got to show who's in charge, and this -- there's no doubt he can pass this. He can get it passed if he chooses to use his political capital and to hold accountable any members that obstruct this passage.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNS: House conservatives did shoot that bill down because they were concerned, they said, about immigration provisions in the bill. Also, about making sure that real-time intelligence on the ground in wartime situations was controlled by the Department of Defense.
Kyra, back to you.
PHILLIPS: Joe Johns live on the Hill. Thank you.
Iran announced that today it suspends its controversial uranium enrichment program, a program that the U.S. says is a pretext for developing nukes. Well, the head of the U.N. nuclear watchdog group, Mohammed ElBaradei, says that pretty much everything has come to a halt, but the IAEA should be able to fully verify this on Thursday. The United States had threatened to go to the U.N. Security Council and demand economic sanctions against Iran.
Secretary of State Colin Powell undertaking a new round of Mideast diplomacy following the death of Yasser Arafat. Today he met with Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to enlist Israel's support for Palestinian elections scheduled for January 9. Now, earlier Powell met with Palestinian leaders, saying that he's pleased with the level of coordination and cooperation he's seeing to make sure those elections can be held.
Now we've got a lot of live events that we're covering. You can't forget that Detroit throw-down as one of the most shocking incidents in sports history. We're expecting coaches and owners to respond. We're going to take those events as soon as they happen.
But first, Len Elmore has seen it all on and off the court. He's played for the ABA and the NBA.
Len is now an attorney. In fact, he's senior counsel with the LeBoeuf, Lamb, Greene & MacRae in New York, and he's also a television sports analyst. He joins us live from Charlotte, North Carolina.
I guess that was a pretty good move to go to law school and move into something else considering the way basketball is turning out nowadays, Len. It's quite a different story from when you played.
LEN ELMORE, ATTORNEY: Oh, absolutely. I don't think I would have fit in. But, you know, we can use all the adjectives you can find from the horrific standpoint, degrading, disgusting, but, you know, it's just something that's totally unprecedented. And in my years associated with basketball, on the professional side, particularly, I've never seen anything like it.
PHILLIPS: Well, your reputation has definitely been that of a true gentleman. Let's talk about the image of the league for a minute, Len, and take a look at the -- you know, the Kobes and the Sprewells and Artest and Rodman. And, you know, what's going on? Is it just a handful of bad an apples and bad behavior? Or is basketball and the image of the sport and the money that's been involved and the advertising and these salaries just kind of gotten out of control to where egos sort of override the ethics?
ELMORE: Well, I think it's a convergence of all of those things. I mean, we are talking about a handful of guys. But, you know, with this expansive media scrutiny, you can tell about anything that's happening. You can see anything that's happening.
And the fact is, the money has something to do with it. The feeling of entitlement has a great deal to do with it, and the lack of maturity.
I mean, it's not coincidental that some of the main culprits in this thing had very little or no college experience. And now I think is an opportunity for the NBA, NCAA, the Players Association to really put their heads together to find out how they can bring in more mature, better-educated players, because obviously, you know, this, as I said, is not a coincidence.
PHILLIPS: So Len, how do you do that? Do you -- do you start -- do you focus less on the money? Do you tell athletes that they have to go to college, they no longer can come into the sport right out of high school?
I mean, how do you formulate that? How do you sort of change the way it's going when it's on such a fast pace right now?
ELMORE: Well, I mean, right now the argument has always been there are guys who can make the jump from high school to the pros. And that's true. And even though that thimbleful of guys can do that, and you don't want to foreclosure on their opportunity, I think in a bigger picture perspective, you have to take a look at how you can get these guys some type of training, some type of maturity factor.
If you're on a university campus, you've got a university community that has expectations of you, of how you're supposed to act in a social setting. And guys who go through those three or four years get a better understanding. And if they can't do it, they get weeded out before they get to the pro level.
But the bottom line is, again, there has to be some way to help people, particularly guys like Ron Artest, whose problems appear to be emotional and require clinical treatment. And, you know, it's been a long time coming, unfortunately, that's culminated in this type of situation, and people have had to have reputations hurt or sports perception has to be damaged before people are really going to take it seriously.
PHILLIPS: So this is the harshest penalty to date. Do you think it's fair?
ELMORE: You know what? I'm not sure fairness plays into it at this moment. Obviously, the Players Association has appealed and an arbitrator is going to make a decision. As we know, in the Latrell Sprewell situation, with the infamous choking deal, he wound up having his suspension cut significantly.
Bottom line is, though, the NBA had to make a statement. This is more symbolic than anything else to tell players, to tell the fans who they want to continue to come that they won't tolerate this type of behavior.
So fairness may be down the line. There'll be a determination. But right now I think the NBA is in good stead in making this strong and swift determination.
PHILLIPS: Do you think these players have forgotten their role models? Do you think they even care?
I mean, they have this god-given talent, and you would think that somehow that should keep them -- OK, Len, hold tight. I'm being told we're going to go to the Wisconsin press -- two stories we've been following, and that is of what's been happening on the court, a different court of sort.
Wisconsin, the five hunters found dead. A press conference now from the sheriff's department via KMSP. Let's listen in.
GOV. JIM DOYLE, WISCONSIN: This is an incredible tragedy, one in which a great family tradition like a deer hunt has turned into such a great loss. For the families that are involved, I'm here to extend on behalf of all the people of the state of Wisconsin to the families of those who have lost loved ones and those who are injured that the whole state of Wisconsin feels the deepest sympathy and the pain.
And our prayers go out to the family members. Our prayers go out to the community. And again, it's just such a tragedy when something that I'm sure by these people so anticipated throughout the year is one of the really great traditions could end in such tragedy.
I am very confident and have had a chance to speak with law enforcement officials involved. I am very confident that very professional law enforcement is engaged in this in a very thorough way, and that they will -- they will proceed as professionally and promptly as possible.
So again, on behalf of all the citizens of the state of Wisconsin, let me express my deepest condolences to those families that have lost loved ones and to those who have been injured, and wish those who are injured speedy recovery and let people know that we're praying for them and we're all hoping that they'll pull through.
Thank you.
Sheriff, thank you.
SHERIFF JAMES MEIER, SAWYER COUNTY, WISCONSIN: I'll start with my news briefing, and following me will be Sheriff Tom Richie from the Barron County Sheriff's Department.
And again, to echo the governor's words, this is such a tragedy. It's just unbelievable that it can happen in a small county.
Hunting camps are steeped in such tradition in Sawyer County and in northern Wisconsin. These people stay together in their cabins, camaraderie. They come up for a weekend of fun. They bring their children with them.
They enjoy themselves. And a lot of them even stay here for Thanksgiving and celebrate that holiday together to give thanks with each other and to deer hunting and enjoy northern Wisconsin.
Sawyer County has thousands of acres of land open to the public, and we do have an abundant deer population. And that brings people here, and it brings many, many hunters and outsiders.
As you're aware, our investigation so far has led us to believe that a suspect who had been hunting in the immediate area had gotten lost. He was not familiar with the area. And he had stopped by a couple of hunters and asked those hunters for directions.
They give him directions out to a certain road. He ended up wandering on to 400 acres of private property, and he found an empty deer stand and he crawled up and occupied it.
Unbeknownst to him that the property was private, a hunter from a hunter camp had a walkie-talkie and he had seen him in the deer stand and he radioed back and asked who would be in the deer stand. The answer was, "No one should be in that deer stand."
He stated over the radio that he was going to ask the person to leave. He approached the person and asked him to leave, at which time the landowners and occupants of the cabin that he was staying at also came on the scene.
The suspect got down from the deer stand, walked approximately 40 yards, fiddled with his rifle in some (UNINTELLIGIBLE), which appeared he took the scope off the rifle, he turned and opened fire on the group. One of the first people hit had the walkie-talkie, he radioed back to the cabin that he had been shot, "Send help." And other people jumped on their ATVs from their cabin and went out to the scene.
People were wounded at that time. People were shot. They attempted to rescue the wounded. And at that time, the gunman opened fire again on them and shot several of them.
Some of the victims did receive -- some of the deceased victims did receive multiple gunshot wounds. When everything was said and done, we had eight people shot.
Injured were a Lauren Hesebeck (ph), a Dennis Drew (ph), a Terry Willers, and deceased are a Robert Cratoll (ph), age 42; and his son, Jeremy Cratoll (ph), age 20; Al Lasky (ph), age 43, Mark Royt (ph), age 28; and Jessica Willers, age 27. And she was the daughter of Terry Willers. When the hunters came upon the person and asked him to leave, one of them had the sense to write down his bag tag number. They were going to report him to the DNR, and they scribbled the bag tag number in the dust on one of the ATVs.
Upon officers' arrival, they were told this. They ran the bag tag number and it came up to a gentleman from St. Paul, Minnesota, on an out-of-state hunting license by the name of Chai Vang, who is 36 years old. A physical of the -- of the -- a physical description of the suspect was also issued, and it was put out to the officers and deputies at the scene.
The area was sealed off by law enforcement and this description was given out to other hunters. Subsequently, two gentlemen on an ATV or on ATVs had been talked to by a warden who had said, you know, "We're looking for this gentleman. This is his bag tag number. And if you see him, please report him."
They came upon a subject in the woods. He walked up and reported he was lost. They didn't realize who they were talking to. So out of the goodness of their heart they give him a ride back out, at which time they realized they had Mr. Vang in their presence. And they offered him a ride out to the warden's jeep truck, at which time he was taken into custody.
In his possession was an SKS assault rifle, 762 x 39. The magazine was empty. The chamber was empty.
Today, the Federal Bureau of Investigation has come on board with this investigation. Also the Department of Justice, Division of Criminal Investigation has come on board. And we've also received assurance from the Wisconsin attorney general's office that they will prosecutor any offenses which may be forthcoming from this case.
The investigation is being carried out in a very meticulous and methodical way. The crime scene is very large. The bodies were located in the same tract of woods, although that tract of woods is very large. And recovering of evidence and recovering of other items that are pertinent to this investigation are somewhat hindered by the size of the crime scene.
Also involved in the investigation is the Washburn County Sheriff's Department, the Russ County (ph) Sheriff's Department, the Barron County Sheriff's Department, the Birchwood Police Department, the LCO Police Department (ph), the Division of Natural Resources, the Department of Transportation State Patrol, the Minnesota State Patrol with their aircraft, the Ambulance Services of Sawyer County, the Fire Services of Sawyer County, the Ambulance Services of Birchwood and the Fire Services of Birchwood.
We'll entertain questions after Sheriff Richie gives his presentation. At this time, I want to introduce Sheriff Tom Richie from the Barron County Sheriff's Department.
SHERIFF TOM RICHIE, BARRON COUNTY, WISCONSIN: Good afternoon. This incident has certainly put our community in a sense of disarray and disbelief. All eight victims are very well-known and well-respected individuals that resided in Barron County, including the five deceased.
Our community is in a state of mourning, and the most frequently asked question is, how could somebody do such a horrific, inhumane act? Quite frankly, I don't believe there are words that can explain it to us. There are a lot of unanswered questions.
I've been in close contact with the victims, and each one is grieving in their own way. At this time, none of the family members wish to offer any type of statement, and we ask that you respect that of them. And our deepest, our heartfelt sympathy goes out to the victims, all their families. And god bless them.
MEIER: And we'll attempt to answer any questions you have at this time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sheriff, has Mr. Vang said anything at all while in custody?
MEIER: Mr. Vang is being held in custody. And at this time, he's showing some cooperation with law enforcement.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he admit it, then?
MEIER: At this time he has not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Has he asked for an attorney yet?
MEIER: Pardon me?
MEIER: Has he asked for an attorney yet?
MEIER: I don't believe he has.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, this rifle, was it registered to Mr. Vang?
MEIER: The ATF out of Madison is running a check on it. For those that aren't familiar with SKSs, they're a Chinese-type assault rifle. And they usually have multiple owners. And we haven't heard back from ATF yet.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sheriff, could you be a little more specific on the timeline of what happened as far as who survived as opposed to who didn't, and if some of those were the first people on the scene or they arrived later in response to that radio call, and who actually made that call? If you could just go through some of that.
MEIER: From what we can gather -- and this is one of the gray areas in our investigation -- is that the incident occurred somewhere between 12:00 and 12:30. And the rescuers who also came under fire checked bodies for signs of life, and they -- they grabbed who they could grab and get out of there because they were still under fire. There was still fire coming into them. And they put those people in a truck.
Some of the victims were obviously deceased. And they were left at the scene. And other ones were taken into the village of Birchwood, at which time they received ambulance care and were transported to the hospital.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Which of the initial victims came out, and then which ones were rescued (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?
MEIER: I actually don't have that available right now. That would be in a report, and I don't have a copy of the report.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't have an approximated (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?
MEIER: I can speculate that the SKS magazine holds 20 rounds. And it was empty.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you repeat the names of the deceased and spell their last names?
MEIER: My secretary is in the backroom. She has a copy of that all written out, along with a mug photo of Mr. Vang.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sheriff, was there any attempt -- sheriff, was there any attempt by those in the hunting party to fire back at the suspect trying to fight him off?
MEIER: At this time, by statements that were gathered, it appears there may have been some attempt to fire back. We don't know if that's happened or not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this the single deadliest shooting spree for this area of Wisconsin ever?
MEIER: Well, for the 25 years I've been here, yes, it is. The Cameron Down (ph) was one of our historical things, and also during the '30s we had some things. But I sincerely think that five people in one incident is the most that's happened up here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sheriff, any idea over what period of time these shots were actually fired? And would it appear that the suspect was stalking or in fact hunting these people?
MEIER: It would be inappropriate for me to answer that because I don't really have that in front of me and I haven't reviewed that report yet.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this weapon legal?
PHILLIPS: Sheriff James Meier, sheriff there of Sawyer County where the shootings took place, briefing reporters about a 36-year-old man from Minnesota now in custody, Chai Vang, a hunter who was getting directions from fellow hunters in northern Wisconsin when not sure what happened. Police still trying to get him to talk.
Evidently, is he cooperating with authorities now. But he has not admitted to the crimes, the crime committed by a Chinese assaulted rifle. Twenty rounds, the sheriff says, and chamber left empty.
As you listen to the news conference, so is our Keith Oppenheim. He joins us live with more on what's taking place. He's in Hayward, closer to where the shooting spree took place.
Keith, what do you make of the news conference and what can you tell us so far from the scene and developments in the investigation?
KEITH OPPENHEIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're just pretty close to where it all happened around noon yesterday, Kyra. And what I'll do, since I can't hear you that great, is I'll just give you a quick recap of the information that we have so far from that news conference and from the information that we got as we were arriving here.
In general, around noon yesterday, you had a group of hunters who came across another hunter. They were on private land. And that hunter was trespassing on that private land.
The law in Wisconsin says if a hunter has permission to hunt on private land, he can do that. But this was not the case.
There was a confrontation which led to gunfire, and that first group was injured by Chai Vang, the suspect in this case, a 36-year- old man. He shoots at them. One of them uses a walkie-talkie and alerts another group of hunters, five of whom came on -- or at least five -- and five -- in total, five hunters are killed, three are injured, and one of those injured is in critical condition at a regional hospital.
We don't know a great deal about Chai Vang other than what you reported there, Kyra, that he is cooperating with authorities. He's from St. Paul. It's not unusual for people from Minnesota to come to Wisconsin to get hunting licenses here. That's exactly what he did.
He came on to this land thinking that he could use an empty deer stand. But again, that's a violation of law. And what happened in between the original confrontation and Chai Vang using his what police say was a semiautomatic gun on al these people is really one of the key questions they're looking at right now.
Back to you.
PHILLIPS: All right. Keith Oppenheim, thank you so much, live from Hayward, Wisconsin, there.
Quite a busy afternoon. A number of live events taking place. We're still waiting for that Indiana Pacers news conference about the melee that took place between the Pistons and the Pacers.
Also, President Bush live from Cartagena, Colombia. He's been meeting with the president there. Of course the number one item on that agenda is drug interdiction. We're going to take a quick break and continue to follow all these live events and other news of the day right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: And live pictures now from the press room there at Conseco Fieldhouse. We're waiting a news conference from Pacers head coach, Rick Carlisle.
Also, we are waiting for Pacers sports entertainment CEO and president, Donnie Walsh, and president of the basketball operations, Larry Byrd. All three individuals supposed to address the media on the melee that took place at the Pistons-Pacers game. We'll follow that, bring you that live as soon as it happens.
Meanwhile, these days Donald Trump might be better known for "The Apprentice" than for being a successful businessman. Rhonda Schaffler joins us now from the New York Stock Exchange with the latest on his casino company not doing so well -- Rhonda.
(STOCK MARKET REPORT)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired November 22, 2004 - 13:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Well, if at first you don't succeed, try again. That's the mood in Washington now amongst supporters of a bill aimed at overhauling U.S. intelligence. A group of House Republicans blocked the measure during a rare Saturday session of Congress. CNN congressional correspondent Joe Johns joins us now with the details on that and the mystery involving another bill -- Joe.
JOE JOHNS, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, members of Congress well aware of the president's intention and interest of getting an intelligence reform bill though the Congress and on his desk. However, after the bill was blocked over the weekend by House Republicans, some here are saying the president, the White House and the Defense Department need to get on the same page before making demands on Capitol Hill.
Still, a number of people think this bill can still be done, including House Speaker Dennis Hastert, who plans to try to bring it up sometime the first week of December. Also, the Senate minority -- or majority whip, I'm sorry -- Mitch McConnell of Kentucky talked to CNN earlier today and said he also thinks that bill can get through the Senate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R), KENTUCKY: It's essentially a turf battle, but look, a lot of people have look at this over a period of time. This bill is a step in the right direction. I'm optimistic that we're going to come back together December the 6th and 7th and pass this bill and send it on down to the president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNS: Now, the collapse of the bill on Saturday obviously has prompted continuing criticism of the Congress, not just here on Capitol Hill but also from the 9/11 commissioners. Many of them say this Congress really needs to get the work done and also says the president needs to do more.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN F. LEHMAN, 9/11 COMMISSION: This is a classic confrontation you see in Washington that they can sell tickets for because the president now has been challenged directly by the leadership of the -- of the Congress and by the lobbyists and by the bureaucracy. Now he's got to show who's in charge, and this -- there's no doubt he can pass this. He can get it passed if he chooses to use his political capital and to hold accountable any members that obstruct this passage.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNS: House conservatives did shoot that bill down because they were concerned, they said, about immigration provisions in the bill. Also, about making sure that real-time intelligence on the ground in wartime situations was controlled by the Department of Defense.
Kyra, back to you.
PHILLIPS: Joe Johns live on the Hill. Thank you.
Iran announced that today it suspends its controversial uranium enrichment program, a program that the U.S. says is a pretext for developing nukes. Well, the head of the U.N. nuclear watchdog group, Mohammed ElBaradei, says that pretty much everything has come to a halt, but the IAEA should be able to fully verify this on Thursday. The United States had threatened to go to the U.N. Security Council and demand economic sanctions against Iran.
Secretary of State Colin Powell undertaking a new round of Mideast diplomacy following the death of Yasser Arafat. Today he met with Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to enlist Israel's support for Palestinian elections scheduled for January 9. Now, earlier Powell met with Palestinian leaders, saying that he's pleased with the level of coordination and cooperation he's seeing to make sure those elections can be held.
Now we've got a lot of live events that we're covering. You can't forget that Detroit throw-down as one of the most shocking incidents in sports history. We're expecting coaches and owners to respond. We're going to take those events as soon as they happen.
But first, Len Elmore has seen it all on and off the court. He's played for the ABA and the NBA.
Len is now an attorney. In fact, he's senior counsel with the LeBoeuf, Lamb, Greene & MacRae in New York, and he's also a television sports analyst. He joins us live from Charlotte, North Carolina.
I guess that was a pretty good move to go to law school and move into something else considering the way basketball is turning out nowadays, Len. It's quite a different story from when you played.
LEN ELMORE, ATTORNEY: Oh, absolutely. I don't think I would have fit in. But, you know, we can use all the adjectives you can find from the horrific standpoint, degrading, disgusting, but, you know, it's just something that's totally unprecedented. And in my years associated with basketball, on the professional side, particularly, I've never seen anything like it.
PHILLIPS: Well, your reputation has definitely been that of a true gentleman. Let's talk about the image of the league for a minute, Len, and take a look at the -- you know, the Kobes and the Sprewells and Artest and Rodman. And, you know, what's going on? Is it just a handful of bad an apples and bad behavior? Or is basketball and the image of the sport and the money that's been involved and the advertising and these salaries just kind of gotten out of control to where egos sort of override the ethics?
ELMORE: Well, I think it's a convergence of all of those things. I mean, we are talking about a handful of guys. But, you know, with this expansive media scrutiny, you can tell about anything that's happening. You can see anything that's happening.
And the fact is, the money has something to do with it. The feeling of entitlement has a great deal to do with it, and the lack of maturity.
I mean, it's not coincidental that some of the main culprits in this thing had very little or no college experience. And now I think is an opportunity for the NBA, NCAA, the Players Association to really put their heads together to find out how they can bring in more mature, better-educated players, because obviously, you know, this, as I said, is not a coincidence.
PHILLIPS: So Len, how do you do that? Do you -- do you start -- do you focus less on the money? Do you tell athletes that they have to go to college, they no longer can come into the sport right out of high school?
I mean, how do you formulate that? How do you sort of change the way it's going when it's on such a fast pace right now?
ELMORE: Well, I mean, right now the argument has always been there are guys who can make the jump from high school to the pros. And that's true. And even though that thimbleful of guys can do that, and you don't want to foreclosure on their opportunity, I think in a bigger picture perspective, you have to take a look at how you can get these guys some type of training, some type of maturity factor.
If you're on a university campus, you've got a university community that has expectations of you, of how you're supposed to act in a social setting. And guys who go through those three or four years get a better understanding. And if they can't do it, they get weeded out before they get to the pro level.
But the bottom line is, again, there has to be some way to help people, particularly guys like Ron Artest, whose problems appear to be emotional and require clinical treatment. And, you know, it's been a long time coming, unfortunately, that's culminated in this type of situation, and people have had to have reputations hurt or sports perception has to be damaged before people are really going to take it seriously.
PHILLIPS: So this is the harshest penalty to date. Do you think it's fair?
ELMORE: You know what? I'm not sure fairness plays into it at this moment. Obviously, the Players Association has appealed and an arbitrator is going to make a decision. As we know, in the Latrell Sprewell situation, with the infamous choking deal, he wound up having his suspension cut significantly.
Bottom line is, though, the NBA had to make a statement. This is more symbolic than anything else to tell players, to tell the fans who they want to continue to come that they won't tolerate this type of behavior.
So fairness may be down the line. There'll be a determination. But right now I think the NBA is in good stead in making this strong and swift determination.
PHILLIPS: Do you think these players have forgotten their role models? Do you think they even care?
I mean, they have this god-given talent, and you would think that somehow that should keep them -- OK, Len, hold tight. I'm being told we're going to go to the Wisconsin press -- two stories we've been following, and that is of what's been happening on the court, a different court of sort.
Wisconsin, the five hunters found dead. A press conference now from the sheriff's department via KMSP. Let's listen in.
GOV. JIM DOYLE, WISCONSIN: This is an incredible tragedy, one in which a great family tradition like a deer hunt has turned into such a great loss. For the families that are involved, I'm here to extend on behalf of all the people of the state of Wisconsin to the families of those who have lost loved ones and those who are injured that the whole state of Wisconsin feels the deepest sympathy and the pain.
And our prayers go out to the family members. Our prayers go out to the community. And again, it's just such a tragedy when something that I'm sure by these people so anticipated throughout the year is one of the really great traditions could end in such tragedy.
I am very confident and have had a chance to speak with law enforcement officials involved. I am very confident that very professional law enforcement is engaged in this in a very thorough way, and that they will -- they will proceed as professionally and promptly as possible.
So again, on behalf of all the citizens of the state of Wisconsin, let me express my deepest condolences to those families that have lost loved ones and to those who have been injured, and wish those who are injured speedy recovery and let people know that we're praying for them and we're all hoping that they'll pull through.
Thank you.
Sheriff, thank you.
SHERIFF JAMES MEIER, SAWYER COUNTY, WISCONSIN: I'll start with my news briefing, and following me will be Sheriff Tom Richie from the Barron County Sheriff's Department.
And again, to echo the governor's words, this is such a tragedy. It's just unbelievable that it can happen in a small county.
Hunting camps are steeped in such tradition in Sawyer County and in northern Wisconsin. These people stay together in their cabins, camaraderie. They come up for a weekend of fun. They bring their children with them.
They enjoy themselves. And a lot of them even stay here for Thanksgiving and celebrate that holiday together to give thanks with each other and to deer hunting and enjoy northern Wisconsin.
Sawyer County has thousands of acres of land open to the public, and we do have an abundant deer population. And that brings people here, and it brings many, many hunters and outsiders.
As you're aware, our investigation so far has led us to believe that a suspect who had been hunting in the immediate area had gotten lost. He was not familiar with the area. And he had stopped by a couple of hunters and asked those hunters for directions.
They give him directions out to a certain road. He ended up wandering on to 400 acres of private property, and he found an empty deer stand and he crawled up and occupied it.
Unbeknownst to him that the property was private, a hunter from a hunter camp had a walkie-talkie and he had seen him in the deer stand and he radioed back and asked who would be in the deer stand. The answer was, "No one should be in that deer stand."
He stated over the radio that he was going to ask the person to leave. He approached the person and asked him to leave, at which time the landowners and occupants of the cabin that he was staying at also came on the scene.
The suspect got down from the deer stand, walked approximately 40 yards, fiddled with his rifle in some (UNINTELLIGIBLE), which appeared he took the scope off the rifle, he turned and opened fire on the group. One of the first people hit had the walkie-talkie, he radioed back to the cabin that he had been shot, "Send help." And other people jumped on their ATVs from their cabin and went out to the scene.
People were wounded at that time. People were shot. They attempted to rescue the wounded. And at that time, the gunman opened fire again on them and shot several of them.
Some of the victims did receive -- some of the deceased victims did receive multiple gunshot wounds. When everything was said and done, we had eight people shot.
Injured were a Lauren Hesebeck (ph), a Dennis Drew (ph), a Terry Willers, and deceased are a Robert Cratoll (ph), age 42; and his son, Jeremy Cratoll (ph), age 20; Al Lasky (ph), age 43, Mark Royt (ph), age 28; and Jessica Willers, age 27. And she was the daughter of Terry Willers. When the hunters came upon the person and asked him to leave, one of them had the sense to write down his bag tag number. They were going to report him to the DNR, and they scribbled the bag tag number in the dust on one of the ATVs.
Upon officers' arrival, they were told this. They ran the bag tag number and it came up to a gentleman from St. Paul, Minnesota, on an out-of-state hunting license by the name of Chai Vang, who is 36 years old. A physical of the -- of the -- a physical description of the suspect was also issued, and it was put out to the officers and deputies at the scene.
The area was sealed off by law enforcement and this description was given out to other hunters. Subsequently, two gentlemen on an ATV or on ATVs had been talked to by a warden who had said, you know, "We're looking for this gentleman. This is his bag tag number. And if you see him, please report him."
They came upon a subject in the woods. He walked up and reported he was lost. They didn't realize who they were talking to. So out of the goodness of their heart they give him a ride back out, at which time they realized they had Mr. Vang in their presence. And they offered him a ride out to the warden's jeep truck, at which time he was taken into custody.
In his possession was an SKS assault rifle, 762 x 39. The magazine was empty. The chamber was empty.
Today, the Federal Bureau of Investigation has come on board with this investigation. Also the Department of Justice, Division of Criminal Investigation has come on board. And we've also received assurance from the Wisconsin attorney general's office that they will prosecutor any offenses which may be forthcoming from this case.
The investigation is being carried out in a very meticulous and methodical way. The crime scene is very large. The bodies were located in the same tract of woods, although that tract of woods is very large. And recovering of evidence and recovering of other items that are pertinent to this investigation are somewhat hindered by the size of the crime scene.
Also involved in the investigation is the Washburn County Sheriff's Department, the Russ County (ph) Sheriff's Department, the Barron County Sheriff's Department, the Birchwood Police Department, the LCO Police Department (ph), the Division of Natural Resources, the Department of Transportation State Patrol, the Minnesota State Patrol with their aircraft, the Ambulance Services of Sawyer County, the Fire Services of Sawyer County, the Ambulance Services of Birchwood and the Fire Services of Birchwood.
We'll entertain questions after Sheriff Richie gives his presentation. At this time, I want to introduce Sheriff Tom Richie from the Barron County Sheriff's Department.
SHERIFF TOM RICHIE, BARRON COUNTY, WISCONSIN: Good afternoon. This incident has certainly put our community in a sense of disarray and disbelief. All eight victims are very well-known and well-respected individuals that resided in Barron County, including the five deceased.
Our community is in a state of mourning, and the most frequently asked question is, how could somebody do such a horrific, inhumane act? Quite frankly, I don't believe there are words that can explain it to us. There are a lot of unanswered questions.
I've been in close contact with the victims, and each one is grieving in their own way. At this time, none of the family members wish to offer any type of statement, and we ask that you respect that of them. And our deepest, our heartfelt sympathy goes out to the victims, all their families. And god bless them.
MEIER: And we'll attempt to answer any questions you have at this time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sheriff, has Mr. Vang said anything at all while in custody?
MEIER: Mr. Vang is being held in custody. And at this time, he's showing some cooperation with law enforcement.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he admit it, then?
MEIER: At this time he has not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Has he asked for an attorney yet?
MEIER: Pardon me?
MEIER: Has he asked for an attorney yet?
MEIER: I don't believe he has.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, this rifle, was it registered to Mr. Vang?
MEIER: The ATF out of Madison is running a check on it. For those that aren't familiar with SKSs, they're a Chinese-type assault rifle. And they usually have multiple owners. And we haven't heard back from ATF yet.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sheriff, could you be a little more specific on the timeline of what happened as far as who survived as opposed to who didn't, and if some of those were the first people on the scene or they arrived later in response to that radio call, and who actually made that call? If you could just go through some of that.
MEIER: From what we can gather -- and this is one of the gray areas in our investigation -- is that the incident occurred somewhere between 12:00 and 12:30. And the rescuers who also came under fire checked bodies for signs of life, and they -- they grabbed who they could grab and get out of there because they were still under fire. There was still fire coming into them. And they put those people in a truck.
Some of the victims were obviously deceased. And they were left at the scene. And other ones were taken into the village of Birchwood, at which time they received ambulance care and were transported to the hospital.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Which of the initial victims came out, and then which ones were rescued (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?
MEIER: I actually don't have that available right now. That would be in a report, and I don't have a copy of the report.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't have an approximated (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?
MEIER: I can speculate that the SKS magazine holds 20 rounds. And it was empty.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you repeat the names of the deceased and spell their last names?
MEIER: My secretary is in the backroom. She has a copy of that all written out, along with a mug photo of Mr. Vang.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sheriff, was there any attempt -- sheriff, was there any attempt by those in the hunting party to fire back at the suspect trying to fight him off?
MEIER: At this time, by statements that were gathered, it appears there may have been some attempt to fire back. We don't know if that's happened or not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this the single deadliest shooting spree for this area of Wisconsin ever?
MEIER: Well, for the 25 years I've been here, yes, it is. The Cameron Down (ph) was one of our historical things, and also during the '30s we had some things. But I sincerely think that five people in one incident is the most that's happened up here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sheriff, any idea over what period of time these shots were actually fired? And would it appear that the suspect was stalking or in fact hunting these people?
MEIER: It would be inappropriate for me to answer that because I don't really have that in front of me and I haven't reviewed that report yet.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this weapon legal?
PHILLIPS: Sheriff James Meier, sheriff there of Sawyer County where the shootings took place, briefing reporters about a 36-year-old man from Minnesota now in custody, Chai Vang, a hunter who was getting directions from fellow hunters in northern Wisconsin when not sure what happened. Police still trying to get him to talk.
Evidently, is he cooperating with authorities now. But he has not admitted to the crimes, the crime committed by a Chinese assaulted rifle. Twenty rounds, the sheriff says, and chamber left empty.
As you listen to the news conference, so is our Keith Oppenheim. He joins us live with more on what's taking place. He's in Hayward, closer to where the shooting spree took place.
Keith, what do you make of the news conference and what can you tell us so far from the scene and developments in the investigation?
KEITH OPPENHEIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're just pretty close to where it all happened around noon yesterday, Kyra. And what I'll do, since I can't hear you that great, is I'll just give you a quick recap of the information that we have so far from that news conference and from the information that we got as we were arriving here.
In general, around noon yesterday, you had a group of hunters who came across another hunter. They were on private land. And that hunter was trespassing on that private land.
The law in Wisconsin says if a hunter has permission to hunt on private land, he can do that. But this was not the case.
There was a confrontation which led to gunfire, and that first group was injured by Chai Vang, the suspect in this case, a 36-year- old man. He shoots at them. One of them uses a walkie-talkie and alerts another group of hunters, five of whom came on -- or at least five -- and five -- in total, five hunters are killed, three are injured, and one of those injured is in critical condition at a regional hospital.
We don't know a great deal about Chai Vang other than what you reported there, Kyra, that he is cooperating with authorities. He's from St. Paul. It's not unusual for people from Minnesota to come to Wisconsin to get hunting licenses here. That's exactly what he did.
He came on to this land thinking that he could use an empty deer stand. But again, that's a violation of law. And what happened in between the original confrontation and Chai Vang using his what police say was a semiautomatic gun on al these people is really one of the key questions they're looking at right now.
Back to you.
PHILLIPS: All right. Keith Oppenheim, thank you so much, live from Hayward, Wisconsin, there.
Quite a busy afternoon. A number of live events taking place. We're still waiting for that Indiana Pacers news conference about the melee that took place between the Pistons and the Pacers.
Also, President Bush live from Cartagena, Colombia. He's been meeting with the president there. Of course the number one item on that agenda is drug interdiction. We're going to take a quick break and continue to follow all these live events and other news of the day right after this.
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PHILLIPS: And live pictures now from the press room there at Conseco Fieldhouse. We're waiting a news conference from Pacers head coach, Rick Carlisle.
Also, we are waiting for Pacers sports entertainment CEO and president, Donnie Walsh, and president of the basketball operations, Larry Byrd. All three individuals supposed to address the media on the melee that took place at the Pistons-Pacers game. We'll follow that, bring you that live as soon as it happens.
Meanwhile, these days Donald Trump might be better known for "The Apprentice" than for being a successful businessman. Rhonda Schaffler joins us now from the New York Stock Exchange with the latest on his casino company not doing so well -- Rhonda.
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