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Protesters Greet Bush in Ottawa; Penalty Phase in Scott Peterson Case Resumes

Aired November 30, 2004 - 15:03   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Now, the other live picture you're seeing, demonstrations in Ottawa, Canada, not long after Prime Minister -- Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin met with the president of the United States, talking about trade issues and the war in Iraq. As you can see, a number of protesters here, anti-Bush protesters, obviously, protesting the war in Iraq. Getting a little out of hand in some areas of this protest. Riot police now have been brought in with riot gear, trying to keep the peace among the protesters there in Ottawa.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: And Suzanne Malveaux is there.

And as we pull back on these pictures, you can see -- well, the group seems to be growing just a little bit. A moment ago, as we were monitoring the pictures, it didn't look quite that big of a gathering. But now it seems to be taking on a little bit of size.

Suzanne Malveaux is there.

And, Suzanne, what can you tell us?

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're looking from our vantage point from a window up above the building, really, that's right across the street from this protest.

And they are outside of Parliament Hill. There are thousands of demonstrators who have gathered, as you can see, of course, Canadian police, those in riot gear, who have shown up for reinforcements. It's not an understatement to say that President Bush here, in this country, is very unpopular, the president even making a joke about it earlier today, when he was asked about the tensions between Canadians and Americans, much of his policy, the president saying that he was pleased with the way that Canadians were greeting him.

Then he made a joke saying for those who greeted him with all five fingers, in reference to, of course, the single finger salute that some people have been giving the president on his arrival this visit. Of course, a lot of people very disturbed about a number of issues, most notably, of course, the Iraq war. Canadians overwhelmingly disapproved of that. The country did not send troops.

Other issues are social issues, very far apart from many Americans on issues of abortion rights, gay rights, also issues of the environment and free trade. And so what you're seeing here are thousands of people who have gathered to make their views known. It's been very, very vocal. Even those members of the government, the Parliament itself, those members have also been very critical of the Bush administration, going so far, a few members even stomping on a doll of the president, calling it a coalition of the idiots, meaning those who are contributing to the effort in the Iraq war.

So you see it all levels, on the street scene here that's unfolding, as well as high-level officials in the government. Having said that, however, President Bush and the prime minister, of course, both of them, their goal for this visit is at least to kind of chill some of the rather cold relations between these countries.

HARRIS: And, Suzanne, let me ask you, has this protest been gathering throughout the day? I don't recall it earlier today. Or is it something that's just sort of developed over the last hour or so?

MALVEAUX: Well, it's certainly not surprising. And it's not unexpected.

And what you are seeing as well is the buildup in security. This is something that they expected, up to 15,000, perhaps. We don't know what the exact number is.

HARRIS: OK.

MALVEAUX: But, as the day has gone on, we've seen this grow.

HARRIS: And we have got some pushing and shoving now. And you're right. You listed a number of issues that have been of concern to Canadians. But, as we look down into that crowd of people, and we take a look at some of the signs, we can't show some of them to you because the language is pretty vulgar. But most of the signs are referring to Iraq. There are a couple signs saying end the massacre in Iraq and no blood for oil. And, as you mentioned, that seems to be the chief bone of contention for Canadians.

MALVEAUX: We're seeing as well our CNN crew that was just led away. They were discouraged from shooting. You might have seen that just moments ago. They were actually shooting rather close to the protesters and were shoved a bit across the street and backed up to stay across the street. We just observed that just a minute ago.

HARRIS: OK, let's change gears for just a moment.

We just watched the resignation of Tom Ridge from the Department of Homeland Security, Suzanne. And I'm curious as to what the president's thoughts are, what he mentioned about it in his conversation today to the press.

MALVEAUX: Well, it was not mentioned in his conversation to the press. It certainly is no surprise to the White House, however, about this announcement. This is something that they knew was coming for some time.

This is something that we reported on two weeks ago, quoting two senior administration sources who tipped us off on Ridge's intention of leaving and going back to the private sector. This has been known for quite some time. The main point here, however, is it's somewhat awkward. The president was not able to actually comment about Ridge's resignation, because his comments came before Ridge made his announcement official.

HARRIS: That's right.

MALVEAUX: But, having said that, we expect that they're going to release a paper statement. And what White House officials are saying, the most important thing now, of course, is that make sure that there's consistency, no matter who it is that he chooses to be Ridge's successor, that there's someone who essentially will carry this on, that it will go -- the transition will go without a hitch.

I don't know if it's been mentioned who is actually being considered for a possible replacement. But those who have been named, Asa Hutchinson, who is the undersecretary for border and transportation security, Frances Townsend, who is a White House adviser on homeland security, and Mitt Romney, who is the governor of Massachusetts. So that's really going to be the critical issue, whether or not the president can get somebody in, get them in right away and have that be a seamless transition.

HARRIS: And you're absolutely right, Suzanne. The president made his comments before Tom Ridge made his official announcement.

Suzanne Malveaux in Ottawa with the president -- Suzanne, thank you.

MALVEAUX: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: Well, from Ottawa to Redwood City, we're following another story right now, life or death. That's the question before jurors in the Scott Peterson murder case. The penalty phase of the trial is now getting under way after a short delay.

Our Rusty Dornin following developments live in Redwood City -- Rusty.

RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they're actually in a lunch break right now, Kyra.

And it was a 2 1/2 hour delay for some kind of evidentiary hearing. The judge would not describe exactly what it was. But the penalty phase in this case is finally under way. The jury filed in. Apparently, none of them looked -- only one of them looked at the defendant as they filed by, the judge giving the jury lingering doubt instructions, telling them that if they have lingering doubt in this case, that that could be a mitigating factor in whether they decide to sentence him to death or give him life in prison without the possibility of parole.

Then it was time for the prosecution was giving the opening statement. David Harris, in a very intimate, soft voice, telling the jury that they would bring forth the family and friends of Laci Peterson, her mother, her father, her stepfather, her brother, talk about who Laci Peterson was and that she had a life and that this family will never be the same.

The opening statement was relatively brief, about 10, 15 minutes. Then he sat down. Apparently, the defense is not going to be giving an opening statement now. They're going to wait until they present their case. So they're going to be at a break for about the next hour and a half. And then we will hear the first witnesses, who will talk about the impact that the death of Laci Peterson and her unborn son had on their lives -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Rusty Dornin live from Redwood City, California, thanks so much.

We're going to take a quick break. More LIVE FROM right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: And we're going to back live now to Ottawa, Canada, where a pretty feisty debate, a protest is going on right now. And, sure, there's a debate going on between the protesters and the police, as the police try to quell that situation there.

These are protesters who are making their voices heard, in opposition to the president's policies, namely, specifically, in Iraq. We've seen some pretty nasty signs, as you might imagine. And there's a lot of pushing and shoving going on right now.

And Suzanne Malveaux is there with the president.

And, Suzanne, I think I just saw a picture a moment ago, well, of someone being dragged away, and a picture a little earlier of someone actually on the ground.

MALVEAUX: We've seen several protesters dragged across the street, taken away by some of the police officers in riot gear.

And what we've seen just over the last couple of minutes is a different posture that they've been taking, some of them kneeling, some of behind, putting their gas masks on, perhaps in preparation for using some sort of tear gas or other agent. They haven't done so, so far. But there was a point where it seemed like it was escalating, the tension escalating. And they definitely took on a much more aggressive posture.

We have seen a couple of individuals being arrested. There are several thousand that are out here at the moment. Certainly, the Canadian officials and authorities have been prepared and expecting this kind of show of force. It may grow as the day continues. They are expecting as many as 15,000. We're not really sure of the exact number now.

But if you just take a look at the people that are out there, you can get a pretty good sense of the wide array of causes and concerns that many people have.

HARRIS: Yes. MALVEAUX: You see some of them walking away from the trouble and others staying there, a lot of pushing and shoving. But so far, it looks like they have made some sense of control outside of Parliament Hill.

HARRIS: Yes, it does look that way.

And you make a good point. There's just not one issue that Canadians are upset with. There are a number of issues. And there were questions in that joint appearance by the prime minister and the president that got to some of the heart of the matters here. And we're talking about trade issues. We know that there is a ban on Canadian cattle into this country. We know that that has devastated a lot of the cattle ranchers and farmers in that area.

So there are a number of issues that Canadians are taking issue with the Bush administration on.

MALVEAUX: Well, there are a lot of people, of course, as you know, who are the majority of people, Canadians, about 80 percent, the polls show, who were vehemently against the Iraq war.

HARRIS: Yes.

MALVEAUX: But you bring up a very good point, which is, others are upset because they've been hurt in the pocketbook.

And you're talking about trade policies a lot of people don't agree with, those who are in the lumber industry who believe that they're unfairly targeted, those as well in the beef industry.

You can see another protester who, essentially, this person is being dragged away by...

(CROSSTALK)

HARRIS: Push coming to shove here, yes.

MALVEAUX: By several and being put on the ground here, as tension seems to escalate.

HARRIS: And, Suzanne, there are also border issues as well.

I know there is the need and the desire of U.S. officials to make that border, that miles-long border between the United States and Canada, as safe as it can possibly can be and to make sure that the documentation of folks coming from Canada into the United States is as sound and verifiable as it can be.

But there have been a number of complaints from Canadian officials about the time, the delay, and the free flow of people being hindered back and forth across those borders.

MALVEAUX: And, also, that's really one of the big concerns when you talk about trade. I mean, this is very important for Canadians, as well as Americans, that there are a lot of people who come and go, a lot of commerce that comes and goes. It's the world's largest trading partners. And there are a lot of problems along that border. What they're trying to do is streamline, so that you have programs. There are programs that are already in place between Homeland Security and Canada's comparable department that allows some movement, some prescreening to take place, so that people can come and go a little bit more easily.

You can see, there seems to be some more activity here, as the police are approaching the barricade, again taking on a more aggressive posture.

HARRIS: Yes.

MALVEAUX: It looks like they're lining up about three or four lines deep, just in case this crowd breaks the barricade.

But, again, there are programs that both the United States and Canada are working on together to try to make sure that that border is porous enough so that you've got people coming and going easily to do their jobs and conduct their business.

HARRIS: That's right. Yes.

MALVEAUX: But, at the same time, a big concern about security.

HARRIS: OK, Suzanne Malveaux.

Suzanne, do us a favor and keep an eye on that situation and gives us a little heads up if the situation on the ground there changes at all.

We'll take a break and we'll come back and look at security from a different vantage point when LIVE FROM continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: So, are you ready for a machine to decide whether you are really you?

In our series this week on privacy, CNN technology correspondent Daniel Sieberg reports that biometrics may already be a part of your life.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHELLE DEBOSE, CONSUMER: I might forget my credit card, but I'm not forgetting my finger.

DANIEL SIEBERG, CNN TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When Michelle Debose (ph) shops for groceries at her Piggly Wiggly in South Carolina, a scan of her index finger takes the place of writing a check or swiping a credit card. Shoppers can enroll in the pay by touch biometrics system by providing a driver's license and their checking or credit card information.

DEBOSE: It's easy. It's quick. And you're not fumbling for your debit card and your checkbook to write it down.

SIEBERG (on camera): The Pig, as it's known here in the South, is testing the technology in four different stores before it rolls it out nationwide. Like any new technology, there's always a learning curve. Think back to ATM machines or buying something online. And so they want to make sure that they can balance convenience with security and privacy. I've already registered, so I can just go ahead and use my finger. Thank you.

(voice-over): And fingers aren't the only body parts with characteristics that can be used for security. There are at least half a dozen others that act as your personal password.

(on camera): I am Daniel Sieberg. I promise you I am who I say I am.

(voice-over): At the University of West Virginia's Center for Identification Technology Research, other studies include voice recognition.

MATTHEW MONACO, UNIVERSITY OF WEST VIRGINIA: There's actually a frequency or pitch of your voice. This is an iris scan. This is actually the most accuser biometric system in use today. This essentially is reading your palm.

SIEBERG (on camera): Not a fortune teller?

MONACO: No. It's actually...

SIEBERG: OK.

MONACO: I'm trying to see if you are actually who you say you are.

What it's measuring here is actually 14 different measurements.

SIEBERG (voice-over): Some other measures include hand geometry and facial geometry. Researchers here say a biometric can be more secure than a password or an I.D. card.

PROF. ARUN ROSS, UNIVERSITY OF WEST VIRGINIA: If I give my I.D. card to someone or someone stole it, then they would probably be able to misuse it. However, in biometrics, the person has to be at the point of transaction and he has to offer his biometric trait at that point.

SIEBERG: Before September 11, the focus of biometrics was mainly on making life a little easier for consumers while still helping to prevent identity theft. That focus changed dramatically after the terrorist attacks and the priority shifted to national security.

Legal experts are working directly with scientists on new security measures based on these physical characteristics. PROF. LISA NELSON, UNIVERSITY OF PITTSBURGH: People are very apprehensive about biometric technology and that fear means that they're going to be less willing to accept it as part of their daily routine. So the more that they -- the less they understand about it, the more fearful they are, which means, I think, that drive, the need for legislation, the need to build in privacy protections.

SIEBERG: Secure biometrics systems extract details from a fingerprint, iris scan or other body part, then get rid of that raw data so it can't be stolen.

PROF. LARRY HORNAK, UNIVERSITY OF WEST VIRGINIA: And one of the basic principles here is to make sure that you design the system and the algorithms such that you can't go backwards.

SIEBERG: Hollywood helps fuel one bizarre but common myth about biometrics. Might someone chop off my finger to get access to all my stuff? After all, it worked for Arnold Schwarzenegger in The Sixth Day.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE SIXTH DAY")

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: System access.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIEBERG: Well, scientists say a new sensor, developed in 2003, will give a dismembered digit a definite thumbs down. Older sensors could not.

HORNAK: We've looked at the perspiration pattern that comes from the pores that you can then pick out living individuals relative to spoof or cadavers.

SIEBERG: But fingerprints can be faked -- Play Dough, melted Gummi Bears and a handful of other spoofing tools are used to create then fix vulnerabilities. A stolen fingerprint on Play Dough is a common fraud attempt.

HORNAK: With one of these, you really have only one try and then you've already deformed the spoof enough that it's not going to image very well.

SIEBERG: While biometric tools can work well for company security and retail sites, some privacy watchdogs warn that the technology is being peddled as a silver bullet for enormous tasks like securing airports and builders.

LEE TIEN, ELECTRONIC FRONTIER FOUNDATION: Our feeling is that it's just not ready for prime time right now. You can change a password. You can re-key locks. But, you know, your fingers, you know, your iris, your voice, they're you. So when someone compromises the security of that kind of biometric, you're stuck.

SIEBERG: So before getting stuck, biometric users must decide how high to set the bar to determine what's a match and what's not. ROSS: The question is what is the cost of making an error? What is the cost of falsely accepting an impostor? If I'm falsely rejected, maybe I'm going to be upset for a couple of seconds, but I could place my finger again. But if it's a false accept, you just let the wrong person into the nuclear facility.

SIEBERG: Some systems combine two different traits, say, a fingerprint and an iris scan, that could dramatically improve security.

So as this technology grows, the next time you go to the grocery store, the cashier's question might not be paper or plastic, but rather, finger or eye?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: We've been talking a lot about Tom Ridge, head of Department of Homeland Security stepping down today. You're saying he was a big supporter of this.

SIEBERG: He was, a big supporter of biometrics. In fact, one of his big initiatives was the US-VISIT initiative. This stands for United States Visitor and Immigrant Status Indicator Technology.

The idea behind this is that anyone who is applying for a visa, a nonimmigrant status visa, had to have supplied two fingerprints. That's part of a biometric tool. They also had to have their digital picture taken. That was all part of making borders more secure. This was ruled out earlier this year in January. So Secretary Tom Ridge a big part of biometrics, for sure.

PHILLIPS: All right, what's ahead tomorrow?

SIEBERG: Yes. We have more in our five-part series here. Tomorrow, we're going to talk about, why steal personal information when you can simply fool people into giving it away? Fake e-mail easily tricks people into handing over credit card and bank account data to a legitimate-looking Web site. Tomorrow, we'll show you how to avoid being hooked by phishing. It's a growing scam.

PHILLIPS: P-H, phishing.

SIEBERG: P-H.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: Thanks, Dan.

HARRIS: And that wraps up this edition of LIVE FROM.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired November 30, 2004 - 15:03   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Now, the other live picture you're seeing, demonstrations in Ottawa, Canada, not long after Prime Minister -- Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin met with the president of the United States, talking about trade issues and the war in Iraq. As you can see, a number of protesters here, anti-Bush protesters, obviously, protesting the war in Iraq. Getting a little out of hand in some areas of this protest. Riot police now have been brought in with riot gear, trying to keep the peace among the protesters there in Ottawa.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: And Suzanne Malveaux is there.

And as we pull back on these pictures, you can see -- well, the group seems to be growing just a little bit. A moment ago, as we were monitoring the pictures, it didn't look quite that big of a gathering. But now it seems to be taking on a little bit of size.

Suzanne Malveaux is there.

And, Suzanne, what can you tell us?

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're looking from our vantage point from a window up above the building, really, that's right across the street from this protest.

And they are outside of Parliament Hill. There are thousands of demonstrators who have gathered, as you can see, of course, Canadian police, those in riot gear, who have shown up for reinforcements. It's not an understatement to say that President Bush here, in this country, is very unpopular, the president even making a joke about it earlier today, when he was asked about the tensions between Canadians and Americans, much of his policy, the president saying that he was pleased with the way that Canadians were greeting him.

Then he made a joke saying for those who greeted him with all five fingers, in reference to, of course, the single finger salute that some people have been giving the president on his arrival this visit. Of course, a lot of people very disturbed about a number of issues, most notably, of course, the Iraq war. Canadians overwhelmingly disapproved of that. The country did not send troops.

Other issues are social issues, very far apart from many Americans on issues of abortion rights, gay rights, also issues of the environment and free trade. And so what you're seeing here are thousands of people who have gathered to make their views known. It's been very, very vocal. Even those members of the government, the Parliament itself, those members have also been very critical of the Bush administration, going so far, a few members even stomping on a doll of the president, calling it a coalition of the idiots, meaning those who are contributing to the effort in the Iraq war.

So you see it all levels, on the street scene here that's unfolding, as well as high-level officials in the government. Having said that, however, President Bush and the prime minister, of course, both of them, their goal for this visit is at least to kind of chill some of the rather cold relations between these countries.

HARRIS: And, Suzanne, let me ask you, has this protest been gathering throughout the day? I don't recall it earlier today. Or is it something that's just sort of developed over the last hour or so?

MALVEAUX: Well, it's certainly not surprising. And it's not unexpected.

And what you are seeing as well is the buildup in security. This is something that they expected, up to 15,000, perhaps. We don't know what the exact number is.

HARRIS: OK.

MALVEAUX: But, as the day has gone on, we've seen this grow.

HARRIS: And we have got some pushing and shoving now. And you're right. You listed a number of issues that have been of concern to Canadians. But, as we look down into that crowd of people, and we take a look at some of the signs, we can't show some of them to you because the language is pretty vulgar. But most of the signs are referring to Iraq. There are a couple signs saying end the massacre in Iraq and no blood for oil. And, as you mentioned, that seems to be the chief bone of contention for Canadians.

MALVEAUX: We're seeing as well our CNN crew that was just led away. They were discouraged from shooting. You might have seen that just moments ago. They were actually shooting rather close to the protesters and were shoved a bit across the street and backed up to stay across the street. We just observed that just a minute ago.

HARRIS: OK, let's change gears for just a moment.

We just watched the resignation of Tom Ridge from the Department of Homeland Security, Suzanne. And I'm curious as to what the president's thoughts are, what he mentioned about it in his conversation today to the press.

MALVEAUX: Well, it was not mentioned in his conversation to the press. It certainly is no surprise to the White House, however, about this announcement. This is something that they knew was coming for some time.

This is something that we reported on two weeks ago, quoting two senior administration sources who tipped us off on Ridge's intention of leaving and going back to the private sector. This has been known for quite some time. The main point here, however, is it's somewhat awkward. The president was not able to actually comment about Ridge's resignation, because his comments came before Ridge made his announcement official.

HARRIS: That's right.

MALVEAUX: But, having said that, we expect that they're going to release a paper statement. And what White House officials are saying, the most important thing now, of course, is that make sure that there's consistency, no matter who it is that he chooses to be Ridge's successor, that there's someone who essentially will carry this on, that it will go -- the transition will go without a hitch.

I don't know if it's been mentioned who is actually being considered for a possible replacement. But those who have been named, Asa Hutchinson, who is the undersecretary for border and transportation security, Frances Townsend, who is a White House adviser on homeland security, and Mitt Romney, who is the governor of Massachusetts. So that's really going to be the critical issue, whether or not the president can get somebody in, get them in right away and have that be a seamless transition.

HARRIS: And you're absolutely right, Suzanne. The president made his comments before Tom Ridge made his official announcement.

Suzanne Malveaux in Ottawa with the president -- Suzanne, thank you.

MALVEAUX: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: Well, from Ottawa to Redwood City, we're following another story right now, life or death. That's the question before jurors in the Scott Peterson murder case. The penalty phase of the trial is now getting under way after a short delay.

Our Rusty Dornin following developments live in Redwood City -- Rusty.

RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they're actually in a lunch break right now, Kyra.

And it was a 2 1/2 hour delay for some kind of evidentiary hearing. The judge would not describe exactly what it was. But the penalty phase in this case is finally under way. The jury filed in. Apparently, none of them looked -- only one of them looked at the defendant as they filed by, the judge giving the jury lingering doubt instructions, telling them that if they have lingering doubt in this case, that that could be a mitigating factor in whether they decide to sentence him to death or give him life in prison without the possibility of parole.

Then it was time for the prosecution was giving the opening statement. David Harris, in a very intimate, soft voice, telling the jury that they would bring forth the family and friends of Laci Peterson, her mother, her father, her stepfather, her brother, talk about who Laci Peterson was and that she had a life and that this family will never be the same.

The opening statement was relatively brief, about 10, 15 minutes. Then he sat down. Apparently, the defense is not going to be giving an opening statement now. They're going to wait until they present their case. So they're going to be at a break for about the next hour and a half. And then we will hear the first witnesses, who will talk about the impact that the death of Laci Peterson and her unborn son had on their lives -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Rusty Dornin live from Redwood City, California, thanks so much.

We're going to take a quick break. More LIVE FROM right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: And we're going to back live now to Ottawa, Canada, where a pretty feisty debate, a protest is going on right now. And, sure, there's a debate going on between the protesters and the police, as the police try to quell that situation there.

These are protesters who are making their voices heard, in opposition to the president's policies, namely, specifically, in Iraq. We've seen some pretty nasty signs, as you might imagine. And there's a lot of pushing and shoving going on right now.

And Suzanne Malveaux is there with the president.

And, Suzanne, I think I just saw a picture a moment ago, well, of someone being dragged away, and a picture a little earlier of someone actually on the ground.

MALVEAUX: We've seen several protesters dragged across the street, taken away by some of the police officers in riot gear.

And what we've seen just over the last couple of minutes is a different posture that they've been taking, some of them kneeling, some of behind, putting their gas masks on, perhaps in preparation for using some sort of tear gas or other agent. They haven't done so, so far. But there was a point where it seemed like it was escalating, the tension escalating. And they definitely took on a much more aggressive posture.

We have seen a couple of individuals being arrested. There are several thousand that are out here at the moment. Certainly, the Canadian officials and authorities have been prepared and expecting this kind of show of force. It may grow as the day continues. They are expecting as many as 15,000. We're not really sure of the exact number now.

But if you just take a look at the people that are out there, you can get a pretty good sense of the wide array of causes and concerns that many people have.

HARRIS: Yes. MALVEAUX: You see some of them walking away from the trouble and others staying there, a lot of pushing and shoving. But so far, it looks like they have made some sense of control outside of Parliament Hill.

HARRIS: Yes, it does look that way.

And you make a good point. There's just not one issue that Canadians are upset with. There are a number of issues. And there were questions in that joint appearance by the prime minister and the president that got to some of the heart of the matters here. And we're talking about trade issues. We know that there is a ban on Canadian cattle into this country. We know that that has devastated a lot of the cattle ranchers and farmers in that area.

So there are a number of issues that Canadians are taking issue with the Bush administration on.

MALVEAUX: Well, there are a lot of people, of course, as you know, who are the majority of people, Canadians, about 80 percent, the polls show, who were vehemently against the Iraq war.

HARRIS: Yes.

MALVEAUX: But you bring up a very good point, which is, others are upset because they've been hurt in the pocketbook.

And you're talking about trade policies a lot of people don't agree with, those who are in the lumber industry who believe that they're unfairly targeted, those as well in the beef industry.

You can see another protester who, essentially, this person is being dragged away by...

(CROSSTALK)

HARRIS: Push coming to shove here, yes.

MALVEAUX: By several and being put on the ground here, as tension seems to escalate.

HARRIS: And, Suzanne, there are also border issues as well.

I know there is the need and the desire of U.S. officials to make that border, that miles-long border between the United States and Canada, as safe as it can possibly can be and to make sure that the documentation of folks coming from Canada into the United States is as sound and verifiable as it can be.

But there have been a number of complaints from Canadian officials about the time, the delay, and the free flow of people being hindered back and forth across those borders.

MALVEAUX: And, also, that's really one of the big concerns when you talk about trade. I mean, this is very important for Canadians, as well as Americans, that there are a lot of people who come and go, a lot of commerce that comes and goes. It's the world's largest trading partners. And there are a lot of problems along that border. What they're trying to do is streamline, so that you have programs. There are programs that are already in place between Homeland Security and Canada's comparable department that allows some movement, some prescreening to take place, so that people can come and go a little bit more easily.

You can see, there seems to be some more activity here, as the police are approaching the barricade, again taking on a more aggressive posture.

HARRIS: Yes.

MALVEAUX: It looks like they're lining up about three or four lines deep, just in case this crowd breaks the barricade.

But, again, there are programs that both the United States and Canada are working on together to try to make sure that that border is porous enough so that you've got people coming and going easily to do their jobs and conduct their business.

HARRIS: That's right. Yes.

MALVEAUX: But, at the same time, a big concern about security.

HARRIS: OK, Suzanne Malveaux.

Suzanne, do us a favor and keep an eye on that situation and gives us a little heads up if the situation on the ground there changes at all.

We'll take a break and we'll come back and look at security from a different vantage point when LIVE FROM continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: So, are you ready for a machine to decide whether you are really you?

In our series this week on privacy, CNN technology correspondent Daniel Sieberg reports that biometrics may already be a part of your life.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHELLE DEBOSE, CONSUMER: I might forget my credit card, but I'm not forgetting my finger.

DANIEL SIEBERG, CNN TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When Michelle Debose (ph) shops for groceries at her Piggly Wiggly in South Carolina, a scan of her index finger takes the place of writing a check or swiping a credit card. Shoppers can enroll in the pay by touch biometrics system by providing a driver's license and their checking or credit card information.

DEBOSE: It's easy. It's quick. And you're not fumbling for your debit card and your checkbook to write it down.

SIEBERG (on camera): The Pig, as it's known here in the South, is testing the technology in four different stores before it rolls it out nationwide. Like any new technology, there's always a learning curve. Think back to ATM machines or buying something online. And so they want to make sure that they can balance convenience with security and privacy. I've already registered, so I can just go ahead and use my finger. Thank you.

(voice-over): And fingers aren't the only body parts with characteristics that can be used for security. There are at least half a dozen others that act as your personal password.

(on camera): I am Daniel Sieberg. I promise you I am who I say I am.

(voice-over): At the University of West Virginia's Center for Identification Technology Research, other studies include voice recognition.

MATTHEW MONACO, UNIVERSITY OF WEST VIRGINIA: There's actually a frequency or pitch of your voice. This is an iris scan. This is actually the most accuser biometric system in use today. This essentially is reading your palm.

SIEBERG (on camera): Not a fortune teller?

MONACO: No. It's actually...

SIEBERG: OK.

MONACO: I'm trying to see if you are actually who you say you are.

What it's measuring here is actually 14 different measurements.

SIEBERG (voice-over): Some other measures include hand geometry and facial geometry. Researchers here say a biometric can be more secure than a password or an I.D. card.

PROF. ARUN ROSS, UNIVERSITY OF WEST VIRGINIA: If I give my I.D. card to someone or someone stole it, then they would probably be able to misuse it. However, in biometrics, the person has to be at the point of transaction and he has to offer his biometric trait at that point.

SIEBERG: Before September 11, the focus of biometrics was mainly on making life a little easier for consumers while still helping to prevent identity theft. That focus changed dramatically after the terrorist attacks and the priority shifted to national security.

Legal experts are working directly with scientists on new security measures based on these physical characteristics. PROF. LISA NELSON, UNIVERSITY OF PITTSBURGH: People are very apprehensive about biometric technology and that fear means that they're going to be less willing to accept it as part of their daily routine. So the more that they -- the less they understand about it, the more fearful they are, which means, I think, that drive, the need for legislation, the need to build in privacy protections.

SIEBERG: Secure biometrics systems extract details from a fingerprint, iris scan or other body part, then get rid of that raw data so it can't be stolen.

PROF. LARRY HORNAK, UNIVERSITY OF WEST VIRGINIA: And one of the basic principles here is to make sure that you design the system and the algorithms such that you can't go backwards.

SIEBERG: Hollywood helps fuel one bizarre but common myth about biometrics. Might someone chop off my finger to get access to all my stuff? After all, it worked for Arnold Schwarzenegger in The Sixth Day.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE SIXTH DAY")

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: System access.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIEBERG: Well, scientists say a new sensor, developed in 2003, will give a dismembered digit a definite thumbs down. Older sensors could not.

HORNAK: We've looked at the perspiration pattern that comes from the pores that you can then pick out living individuals relative to spoof or cadavers.

SIEBERG: But fingerprints can be faked -- Play Dough, melted Gummi Bears and a handful of other spoofing tools are used to create then fix vulnerabilities. A stolen fingerprint on Play Dough is a common fraud attempt.

HORNAK: With one of these, you really have only one try and then you've already deformed the spoof enough that it's not going to image very well.

SIEBERG: While biometric tools can work well for company security and retail sites, some privacy watchdogs warn that the technology is being peddled as a silver bullet for enormous tasks like securing airports and builders.

LEE TIEN, ELECTRONIC FRONTIER FOUNDATION: Our feeling is that it's just not ready for prime time right now. You can change a password. You can re-key locks. But, you know, your fingers, you know, your iris, your voice, they're you. So when someone compromises the security of that kind of biometric, you're stuck.

SIEBERG: So before getting stuck, biometric users must decide how high to set the bar to determine what's a match and what's not. ROSS: The question is what is the cost of making an error? What is the cost of falsely accepting an impostor? If I'm falsely rejected, maybe I'm going to be upset for a couple of seconds, but I could place my finger again. But if it's a false accept, you just let the wrong person into the nuclear facility.

SIEBERG: Some systems combine two different traits, say, a fingerprint and an iris scan, that could dramatically improve security.

So as this technology grows, the next time you go to the grocery store, the cashier's question might not be paper or plastic, but rather, finger or eye?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: We've been talking a lot about Tom Ridge, head of Department of Homeland Security stepping down today. You're saying he was a big supporter of this.

SIEBERG: He was, a big supporter of biometrics. In fact, one of his big initiatives was the US-VISIT initiative. This stands for United States Visitor and Immigrant Status Indicator Technology.

The idea behind this is that anyone who is applying for a visa, a nonimmigrant status visa, had to have supplied two fingerprints. That's part of a biometric tool. They also had to have their digital picture taken. That was all part of making borders more secure. This was ruled out earlier this year in January. So Secretary Tom Ridge a big part of biometrics, for sure.

PHILLIPS: All right, what's ahead tomorrow?

SIEBERG: Yes. We have more in our five-part series here. Tomorrow, we're going to talk about, why steal personal information when you can simply fool people into giving it away? Fake e-mail easily tricks people into handing over credit card and bank account data to a legitimate-looking Web site. Tomorrow, we'll show you how to avoid being hooked by phishing. It's a growing scam.

PHILLIPS: P-H, phishing.

SIEBERG: P-H.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: Thanks, Dan.

HARRIS: And that wraps up this edition of LIVE FROM.

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