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Live From...
Saving Scott Peterson; Major League Scandal
Aired December 07, 2004 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TONY HARRIS, CO-HOST: They know firsthand the dangers in Iraq, and today marines at California's Camp Pendleton got a thank you directly from their commander-in-chief. About 21,000 marines based at Camp Pendleton are serving in Iraq's volatile Al Anbar province. That base has lost more than 200 troops in this war.
The Saudi wing of al Qaeda is claiming responsibility for yesterday's attack on the U.S. consulate in Jeddah. Nine people were killed in that attack, including four of the gunmen. Messages posted on Web sites used by insurgents referred to the Falluja battle in Iraq. The authenticity of those claims could not be confirmed.
A democratically-elected president takes the oath of office in Afghanistan. Very tight security in Kabul today for the inauguration of Hamid Karzai. U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfield were on hand. Karzai says that Afghanistan has come a long way, but still faces an uphill battle against drugs and terrorists.
Remember the attack that plunged America into World War II. 63 years ago today, the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor. In Hawaii, the navy is holding its annual service aboard the USS Arizona Memorial, and a separate service is being on shore to commemorate that fatal day.
First this hour, trying to convince a California jury that Scott Peterson's life is worth saving. Friends and family of the convicted double murderer are painting a sympathetic portrait of the man they say was gentle, generous and a good friend.
Our Rusty Dornin joins us now from Redwood City, where penalty phase is winding down -- Rusty.
RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Well, Tony, we're hearing more of the same today. Scott Peterson was a super guy who never showed any kind of violence, never showed he was angry, he was kind, he was responsible.
Today, we heard from six witnesses. Court is actually over for the day. We heard from six people, including a neighbor, a former college professor, a golf coach, another friend. But the most emotional testimony we heard from was from an Abba Imani. Now, he's the owner of a restaurant in Morro Bay, where Scott Peterson used to work and where Scott and Laci Peterson met for the first time and had their first date. We actually interviewed him about a year and a half ago. He began crying on the stand, talking about what a tragedy it was for both families. Sharon Rocha also began crying in the front row. But, as far as all these glowing testimonials go, legal experts say it may be not making points with the jury.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM HAMMER, FORMER PROSECUTOR: I think these jurors don't buy it, because the picture they saw is of a conniving, lying, plotting cheater who murdered his wife. So none of these stories fit that picture, and I'm not sure they have any effect at this point.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DORNIN: That was former prosecutor Jim Hammer, who says he saw Scott Peterson after everyone had left the courtroom yesterday, after the jury had left, break down and cry and was very upset, talking to his attorney, Mark Geragos, who had his hand on his shoulder and was trying to calm him down. It was the most emotional anyone has seen him so far during this trial.
From what we understand, there's going to be four or five witnesses tomorrow. They'll be wrapping up with Jackie Peterson, Scott Peterson's mother. Then there will be the summation by both sides and jury instructions. And on Thursday -- that will be on Thursday, the summations and jury instructions. And then the jury will begin their deliberations in this case -- Tony.
HARRIS: Rusty Dornin, live from Redwood City, California -- Rusty, thank you.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CO-HOST: Members of the House await their chance to vote on the post-9/11 intelligence reform. Live pictures now of the House as it just reconvened.
Sources say that a key House Republican has dropped his opposition, which could lead to House approval by the end of the day. Senate passage is pretty much a given. And after months and months of work, supporters sense victory.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN (D), CONNECTICUT: We have walked a long and winding road to get to this day. But, ultimately, we've gotten to exactly where we wanted to be, which is on the verge of adopting legislation that will reform America's intelligence assets, so that, to the best extent possible, we can feel that we are ready to prevent another September 11 from happening.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: President Bush has pledged to sign those reforms. Of course, they did emerge from the probe by the 9/11 Commission.
A classified cable, a bleak assessment of Iraqi security, and now two warnings, they are being called, from the CIA station chief in Baghdad. Why was this classified information leaked and why now?
Here to talk more about the intel and the station chief is CNN military intelligence analyst Ken Robinson. He's joining us live from Washington.
Ken, let's talk about the agency station chief, right now, this one in Baghdad. I understand it's the biggest station, I guess, since Saigon in Vietnam. Is that right?
KEN ROBINSON, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: That's correct.
The station chief is the senior intelligence professional in the country of Iraq representing the intelligence community and the interests of the United States. And he commands at his disposal air assets, remote-piloted vehicles, human intelligence operatives, signals intelligence operatives, and he tries to fuse that information and give the best assessment of what's going on in the country.
PHILLIPS: So how many station chiefs are there?
ROBINSON: Well, in most large countries in the world, there's a representative of the intelligence community representing the interests of the U.S. So it's over 100. And in small countries, they have what is called a chief of base, who also does the same type of functions, but the organization doesn't rank the status of being called a station, normally found in the American embassies.
PHILLIPS: All right, so the station chief in Baghdad, about 300 people underneath this individual, does a station chief always operate in an undercover manner, and is he or she operating in Baghdad undercover?
ROBINSON: Well, you know, that's the great question about the she, because there have been very few female station chiefs. But those that have reached that rank have been really phenomenal players.
And, yes, in most cases, they are undercover. In some cases, they are declared to the host company, where the embassy is located.
PHILLIPS: So why is a cable, as it's called like this, so important to pay attention to? Is it basically because the station chief is a bit of a fortune teller and has to be there and analyze all this intelligence to look at not only the present, but the future of Iraq?
ROBINSON: Well, the cable is the formal means of communication between the CIA station chief and his headquarters. And also many times the addressees on those cables may be members of the intelligence community. The White House Situation Room, the State Department, the Department of Defense, the Joint Chiefs may also be addressees on chief of station cables.
And what they do is, yes, it's an art as much as it is a science of trying to make an assessment of where a country may be going because of demographics, because of an urban youth bulge, because of a shortage of water, anything that could lead toward conflict, which could lead toward instability. That's what that station chief's job is, is to make those warnings to the policy-makers in Washington, so they have a true on-the-ground assessment of what is going on.
PHILLIPS: All right. And I don't think it's new news that politically, economically, and security wise, that there are these warnings coming out of Iraq.
And also, according to this cable, the station chief did credit the Iraqis in saying that progress is being made. But just taking it maybe in another direction, could this just be an attempt to undermine the Bush administration? There's a lot of bitter feelings within the CIA right now, right?
ROBINSON: Well, I don't think that the station chief's authorship of that cable was to undermine anyone. I believe that, likely, his intent was to inform the policy-makers.
Now, the real question is, who leaked it? Where did it leak from and what was their intent? Because leaking is a cottage industry in Washington. It can come out of congressional committees. It can come out of some member of the executive branch who feels disenfranchised and disagrees with a policy.
But these cables are important, because they are gut candor assessments of what's going on, on the ground. And, yes, Iraqis have made great strides, but there are enormous challenges toward stability. And the warnings which he make there, they go hand in hand with the assessments that the average American can observe. With the amount of killings and bombing which are going on there, it's hard to imagine stable elections in January.
PHILLIPS: CNN military intelligence analyst Ken Robinson -- thanks so much, Ken.
ROBINSON: Thank you.
HARRIS: Now to the fight against the flu. More than one million new doses of flu vaccine from Germany are headed for the U.S. The Food and Drug Administration authorized them. Outgoing Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy Thomson says the new flu shots may have some risks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOMMY THOMPSON, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: We are confident that the GSK vaccine is safe and effective for use under an IND. This vaccine has been licensed for use in more than 30 different countries. And under an IND, the patient has to sign an informed consent form acknowledging that they are aware of the potential adverse impacts and effects associated with this investigational vaccine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Federal health officials say there's no widespread flu outbreak yet, but they warn a slow start does not necessarily mean a slow season.
PHILLIPS: Baseball players and Senator John McCain getting serious about the Major League steroid scandal. But what about the people who fill the stands? We are going to talk about it with two sports hosts who have their finger on the pulse of the fans.
Chicago's major says firefighters averted a major disaster at this skyscraper fire. Details on that story straight ahead.
And check this out. Caught on tape, a store clerk takes matters into her own hands. Oh, yes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(WEATHER UPDATE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: While player unions and team owners sweat over changing the rules and the feds threaten to come off the bench, the steroid scandal sure seems like a major league crisis. But you have got to wonder what fans think about the whole thing. If it's true the power hitters fill the seats and it doesn't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing, what would happen if performance-enhancing drugs are called out?
We have got a couple of sports talk show hosts joining us to bat around the topic. Chris Dimino with 790 The Zone here Atlanta, and Steve Davis with WBAL in Baltimore.
Gentlemen, thanks for being here.
(CROSSTALK)
STEVE DAVIS, SPORTS RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: My pleasure.
HARRIS: All right, Steve, let me start with you. What are you hearing from your listeners?
DAVIS: Well, not as much as I think maybe the columnists and talk show hosts think they should. It is...
HARRIS: Oh, really now?
DAVIS: Yes.
I think the average fan, they want home runs. They don't necessarily -- the ones that call into the show, of course, have an opinion about it. But I think not as many people as you might expect are outraged by this. They want the home runs. And they are not the ones that are putting their bodies at risk. And so I think you can make the case that, hey, it's bad for kids and all that, which I would say, but I don't know that fans are outraged as maybe as much as they should be, because, you look at the polls, they knew this.
HARRIS: Right. DAVIS: Over 90 percent of the fans, you look at the polls, say, hey, I knew Bonds was on steroids. Now he's just telling me what I already knew.
HARRIS: Chris, what's your take on this? What are you hearing from your listeners?
CHRIS DIMINO, SPORTS RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Well, I agree with Steve.
The thing that really horrifies me more than anything else, though, is the idea is that nobody has ever seemed to talk about the legal aspect of this. I have met a lot of baseball players. I'm sure Steve has. And you probably have as well. I have never one smart enough to actually go into his bath tub and make this stuff, which means you bought it. You possessed it, because it somehow got in a cup.
And in the case of Bonds, according to Gary Sheffield, there might have been distribution. Jeremy Giambi has already said his brother gave him some of these things. Again, you have another charge there. The risk-reward in baseball has never been high enough. It's more about the reward from a dollars and cents point of view. There's never been a risk because baseball has decided to turn that blind eye.
HARRIS: And, Steve, you believe you haven't heard more outrage because the fans have a sense that all of this stuff, eventually, down the road, will become legal; it will be subjected to FDA testing and that it will be available with a doctor's prescriptions; they have a sense that the genie is out of the bottle and you can't put it back in?
DAVIS: Well, I don't think it's ever going to become legal.
I think Chris raises a good point, which is the letter of the law in baseball, these guys didn't cheat, although you know they cheated. They did something -- it's ironic that they did something that was illegal in our country, yet not considered cheating in baseball. And that's something that you have to say is disturbing.
I think the average baseball player isn't not doing steroids because they are afraid of getting caught.
HARRIS: Right.
DAVIS: I think they're not doing it because they're afraid of what might happen to their body.
DIMINO: Well, let's just cut to the chase in terms of the baseball way of thinking.
HARRIS: Yes.
DIMINO: Sammy Sosa comes to the bat with a corked -- excuse me, comes to the plate with a corked bat.
HARRIS: Right. Right.
DAVIS: He gets busted. By baseball rules, he gets eight games. He is actually allowed to knock it down to seven. Ridiculous.
Sammy Sosa comes up to the plate with a needle in his rear end, that doesn't matter to baseball. That's how far along this whole thing has gotten. It's crazy that baseball has not followed any letters of the law. They've followed their own. And I blame the Players Union and I blame Bud Selig, who threw juiced baseballs into this mix to assure that we have home runs and runs.
HARRIS: OK. Now, that sort of gets to it for me. Now, there was the baseball strike in, what was it, '94?
DIMINO: Ninety-four.
HARRIS: It was '94.
DIMINO: Right, canceled the World Series.
HARRIS: That's right, canceled the World Series.
And then there was this whole -- a lot of this hand-wringing going on. What's going to happen to baseball? Baseball is dead as we know it. Then we get to '98, OK, and then we've got Sosa and McGwire.
(CROSSTALK)
DIMINO: Which can never -- it can never happen again. That feel-good story is gone. I don't care if somebody gets a shot to hit 88 home runs. You will never have the celebration of the home run the way that it was.
(CROSSTALK)
DAVIS: Well, it's tainted by what those two guys did.
Don't forget, now those names are getting thrown in there.
HARRIS: Yes.
DAVIS: We'll never know what happened with McGwire.
I have spoken to two Major League Baseball players in the last five days, both of whom think that, look, McGwire and Sosa's name deserve to get thrown into this mix as well.
HARRIS: And my point is that there was a lot of hand-wringing, yes, but there was also a lot of winking and nodding from the owners, from the Players Association, from the players themselves. How do we get butts back in the seat?
(CROSSTALK)
DIMINO: Well, it's a business.
HARRIS: People love -- and, Steve, you said it. People love the home run ball.
DIMINO: It's a business more than anything else. It's become a business more than a game.
I love baseball for the three hours it's played. I don't necessarily care about too much about it the other 21 hours of the day. That's what I think a lot of baseball fans are feeling. But that three hours seems to be good enough for baseball and maybe good enough for the fans to go buy their tickets.
HARRIS: All right, here's the other point. Barry Bonds hits a whole bunch of home runs. It raises -- he gets a big contract. Jason Giambi hits a whole bunch of home runs. He gets a huge contract from the Yankees. It raises the bar for everyone.
So now Carlos Beltran gets more money. Adam Dunn gets more money. Part of the reason that we are not going to see any strong language from the players or any strong statement from the players is because they are all getting their boats floated by these home runs and this juice.
DAVIS: Let me make a point on that, though, Tony, which is that there are certain players that are making a lot of money.
I spoke to one player on the Orioles who doesn't do steroids. I believe he doesn't do steroids. You look at his statistics, you know he doesn't do steroids. And one of the things that he tells me is, this is costing him a lot of money. Because he doesn't do steroids, he feels like he would be considered maybe a better player in baseball if he didn't have to compete with the guys that are doing steroids.
So you look at some of the surveys out there -- "USA Today" did a survey I think two years ago; 80 percent of the players want steroid testing. The problem is, is that the union isn't listening to the players. And the players aren't coming out. They are not saying it publicly. They're saying it behind closed doors.
DIMINO: This is why this isn't a real union. I'm tired of the word union being thrown around.
It's an association and that's what it is. If 51 percent, one man, one vote, which is the way that it's supposed to work, says, we want this, you should be able to implement it tomorrow. If they are not smart to understand and then they want to throw around figures like 80 percent, they're not doing their job. Bud Selig has sat on his hands on a lot of issues over the last few years. It's time that he gets off.
I'm horrified by Bud Selig's ability to look into a camera and try to tell me that he is going to fix something that he was a part of. Juiced baseballs and turning the eye here, baseball and its hierarchy has been absolutely as guilty as the Players Association in this.
DAVIS: And, Chris, how about this? How about the fact that baseball is actually asking or at least accepting the fact that government will get involved? Who would have ever thought that a professional sports league would welcome government intervention to solve a problem?
HARRIS: Yes.
DIMINO: Well, that's a couple of buddies.
And you've got to understand, John McCain, I give him credit. He's done it on the boxing world, or at least attempted. But here's the thing that is going to be interesting for me.
HARRIS: Yes.
DIMINO: You can cannot parade Barry Bonds around to track down 756. Bud Selig's closest associate in baseball, the biggest name he has on his side is Hank Aaron.
(CROSSTALK)
HARRIS: We are all going to be watching that story.
DIMINO: We are all going to be watching it differently. And I'm telling you, I don't care if a guy has got 89 home runs and the magic number for somebody is '90, you will never capture what you had in '98. That part of it is done. People will not buy into it.
HARRIS: Last word. Last word, Steve. Last word.
DAVIS: Well, I think it's going to be very interesting to see how this plays out. I don't think that Bud Selig is going to get the resolution he wants as far as a quick agreement.
HARRIS: Yes. I agree with you.
DAVIS: Because the Players Union will continue to hold out.
DIMINO: It's a chip.
HARRIS: And they will not want to give up all these privacy issues.
(CROSSTALK)
HARRIS: All right, I've got to go. I've got to go.
DAVIS: OK. OK.
(CROSSTALK)
HARRIS: I'm way over here. That's good stuff.
Steve Davis and Chris Dimino, we appreciate it. Plenty to talk about on this.
DIMINO: Thanks.
HARRIS: And we will be following it in the days and weeks and months and into spring training and beyond. Thank you, guys.
DIMINO: Thanks.
DAVIS: Thank you.
PHILLIPS: Other news across America now.
Investigators still searching for the cause of a frightening high-rise fire in downtown Chicago. That fire broke out yesterday and burned for more than four hours. No one was killed, but at least 37 people were injured. One woman who escaped the flames told us what she saw.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARAH NADLEHOFFER, CHICAGO FIRE VICTIM: We were working late and the office started filling up with smoke. So my partners and I left the office and went to the nearest stairwell. And we went down one flight and it was very smoky. And it was -- it seemed to be worse in the stairwell, especially going, descending. So we exited the stairwell and we went back into our office. And I went straight to my phone and called 911.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: An incredible survival story in Indiana. This car crash left the drive, a 28-year-old woman, impaled by a metal fence rod. The force of the accident pushed the 12-foot rod through her mouth and out the back of her neck. Emergency crews say that they were shocked to find her alive. She's hospitalized and in critical condition.
A robbery suspect picked the wrong store to hold up in Ohio. Check this out. The clerk gave him the money he demanded, then a bullet to the shoulder. After receiving medical treatment, the suspect now faces robbery charges.
HARRIS: First, there was the drink-tossing incident at the basket-brawl in Detroit. Now we have got this, the teddy toss in Calgary. But this scene is inspiring thanks, rather than arrest warrants. Details ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(FINANCIAL UPDATE)
PHILLIPS: Well, it's raining teddy bears north of the border.
Check this out. Fans pelted the ice with teddy bears at a junior hockey game last night in Calgary. Well, it happened after Calgary scored its first goal about 13 minutes into the game. In all, about 13,000 bears hit the ice, so many that it took a half-an-hour to clear them all out. But it was for a good cause, because the animals will be donated to a local children's hospital.
HARRIS: That's all the hockey you are going to see this year. That's it right there. Enjoy. Well, OK.
That wraps this Tuesday edition of LIVE FROM.
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Aired December 7, 2004 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TONY HARRIS, CO-HOST: They know firsthand the dangers in Iraq, and today marines at California's Camp Pendleton got a thank you directly from their commander-in-chief. About 21,000 marines based at Camp Pendleton are serving in Iraq's volatile Al Anbar province. That base has lost more than 200 troops in this war.
The Saudi wing of al Qaeda is claiming responsibility for yesterday's attack on the U.S. consulate in Jeddah. Nine people were killed in that attack, including four of the gunmen. Messages posted on Web sites used by insurgents referred to the Falluja battle in Iraq. The authenticity of those claims could not be confirmed.
A democratically-elected president takes the oath of office in Afghanistan. Very tight security in Kabul today for the inauguration of Hamid Karzai. U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfield were on hand. Karzai says that Afghanistan has come a long way, but still faces an uphill battle against drugs and terrorists.
Remember the attack that plunged America into World War II. 63 years ago today, the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor. In Hawaii, the navy is holding its annual service aboard the USS Arizona Memorial, and a separate service is being on shore to commemorate that fatal day.
First this hour, trying to convince a California jury that Scott Peterson's life is worth saving. Friends and family of the convicted double murderer are painting a sympathetic portrait of the man they say was gentle, generous and a good friend.
Our Rusty Dornin joins us now from Redwood City, where penalty phase is winding down -- Rusty.
RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Well, Tony, we're hearing more of the same today. Scott Peterson was a super guy who never showed any kind of violence, never showed he was angry, he was kind, he was responsible.
Today, we heard from six witnesses. Court is actually over for the day. We heard from six people, including a neighbor, a former college professor, a golf coach, another friend. But the most emotional testimony we heard from was from an Abba Imani. Now, he's the owner of a restaurant in Morro Bay, where Scott Peterson used to work and where Scott and Laci Peterson met for the first time and had their first date. We actually interviewed him about a year and a half ago. He began crying on the stand, talking about what a tragedy it was for both families. Sharon Rocha also began crying in the front row. But, as far as all these glowing testimonials go, legal experts say it may be not making points with the jury.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM HAMMER, FORMER PROSECUTOR: I think these jurors don't buy it, because the picture they saw is of a conniving, lying, plotting cheater who murdered his wife. So none of these stories fit that picture, and I'm not sure they have any effect at this point.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DORNIN: That was former prosecutor Jim Hammer, who says he saw Scott Peterson after everyone had left the courtroom yesterday, after the jury had left, break down and cry and was very upset, talking to his attorney, Mark Geragos, who had his hand on his shoulder and was trying to calm him down. It was the most emotional anyone has seen him so far during this trial.
From what we understand, there's going to be four or five witnesses tomorrow. They'll be wrapping up with Jackie Peterson, Scott Peterson's mother. Then there will be the summation by both sides and jury instructions. And on Thursday -- that will be on Thursday, the summations and jury instructions. And then the jury will begin their deliberations in this case -- Tony.
HARRIS: Rusty Dornin, live from Redwood City, California -- Rusty, thank you.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CO-HOST: Members of the House await their chance to vote on the post-9/11 intelligence reform. Live pictures now of the House as it just reconvened.
Sources say that a key House Republican has dropped his opposition, which could lead to House approval by the end of the day. Senate passage is pretty much a given. And after months and months of work, supporters sense victory.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN (D), CONNECTICUT: We have walked a long and winding road to get to this day. But, ultimately, we've gotten to exactly where we wanted to be, which is on the verge of adopting legislation that will reform America's intelligence assets, so that, to the best extent possible, we can feel that we are ready to prevent another September 11 from happening.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: President Bush has pledged to sign those reforms. Of course, they did emerge from the probe by the 9/11 Commission.
A classified cable, a bleak assessment of Iraqi security, and now two warnings, they are being called, from the CIA station chief in Baghdad. Why was this classified information leaked and why now?
Here to talk more about the intel and the station chief is CNN military intelligence analyst Ken Robinson. He's joining us live from Washington.
Ken, let's talk about the agency station chief, right now, this one in Baghdad. I understand it's the biggest station, I guess, since Saigon in Vietnam. Is that right?
KEN ROBINSON, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: That's correct.
The station chief is the senior intelligence professional in the country of Iraq representing the intelligence community and the interests of the United States. And he commands at his disposal air assets, remote-piloted vehicles, human intelligence operatives, signals intelligence operatives, and he tries to fuse that information and give the best assessment of what's going on in the country.
PHILLIPS: So how many station chiefs are there?
ROBINSON: Well, in most large countries in the world, there's a representative of the intelligence community representing the interests of the U.S. So it's over 100. And in small countries, they have what is called a chief of base, who also does the same type of functions, but the organization doesn't rank the status of being called a station, normally found in the American embassies.
PHILLIPS: All right, so the station chief in Baghdad, about 300 people underneath this individual, does a station chief always operate in an undercover manner, and is he or she operating in Baghdad undercover?
ROBINSON: Well, you know, that's the great question about the she, because there have been very few female station chiefs. But those that have reached that rank have been really phenomenal players.
And, yes, in most cases, they are undercover. In some cases, they are declared to the host company, where the embassy is located.
PHILLIPS: So why is a cable, as it's called like this, so important to pay attention to? Is it basically because the station chief is a bit of a fortune teller and has to be there and analyze all this intelligence to look at not only the present, but the future of Iraq?
ROBINSON: Well, the cable is the formal means of communication between the CIA station chief and his headquarters. And also many times the addressees on those cables may be members of the intelligence community. The White House Situation Room, the State Department, the Department of Defense, the Joint Chiefs may also be addressees on chief of station cables.
And what they do is, yes, it's an art as much as it is a science of trying to make an assessment of where a country may be going because of demographics, because of an urban youth bulge, because of a shortage of water, anything that could lead toward conflict, which could lead toward instability. That's what that station chief's job is, is to make those warnings to the policy-makers in Washington, so they have a true on-the-ground assessment of what is going on.
PHILLIPS: All right. And I don't think it's new news that politically, economically, and security wise, that there are these warnings coming out of Iraq.
And also, according to this cable, the station chief did credit the Iraqis in saying that progress is being made. But just taking it maybe in another direction, could this just be an attempt to undermine the Bush administration? There's a lot of bitter feelings within the CIA right now, right?
ROBINSON: Well, I don't think that the station chief's authorship of that cable was to undermine anyone. I believe that, likely, his intent was to inform the policy-makers.
Now, the real question is, who leaked it? Where did it leak from and what was their intent? Because leaking is a cottage industry in Washington. It can come out of congressional committees. It can come out of some member of the executive branch who feels disenfranchised and disagrees with a policy.
But these cables are important, because they are gut candor assessments of what's going on, on the ground. And, yes, Iraqis have made great strides, but there are enormous challenges toward stability. And the warnings which he make there, they go hand in hand with the assessments that the average American can observe. With the amount of killings and bombing which are going on there, it's hard to imagine stable elections in January.
PHILLIPS: CNN military intelligence analyst Ken Robinson -- thanks so much, Ken.
ROBINSON: Thank you.
HARRIS: Now to the fight against the flu. More than one million new doses of flu vaccine from Germany are headed for the U.S. The Food and Drug Administration authorized them. Outgoing Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy Thomson says the new flu shots may have some risks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOMMY THOMPSON, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: We are confident that the GSK vaccine is safe and effective for use under an IND. This vaccine has been licensed for use in more than 30 different countries. And under an IND, the patient has to sign an informed consent form acknowledging that they are aware of the potential adverse impacts and effects associated with this investigational vaccine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Federal health officials say there's no widespread flu outbreak yet, but they warn a slow start does not necessarily mean a slow season.
PHILLIPS: Baseball players and Senator John McCain getting serious about the Major League steroid scandal. But what about the people who fill the stands? We are going to talk about it with two sports hosts who have their finger on the pulse of the fans.
Chicago's major says firefighters averted a major disaster at this skyscraper fire. Details on that story straight ahead.
And check this out. Caught on tape, a store clerk takes matters into her own hands. Oh, yes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(WEATHER UPDATE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: While player unions and team owners sweat over changing the rules and the feds threaten to come off the bench, the steroid scandal sure seems like a major league crisis. But you have got to wonder what fans think about the whole thing. If it's true the power hitters fill the seats and it doesn't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing, what would happen if performance-enhancing drugs are called out?
We have got a couple of sports talk show hosts joining us to bat around the topic. Chris Dimino with 790 The Zone here Atlanta, and Steve Davis with WBAL in Baltimore.
Gentlemen, thanks for being here.
(CROSSTALK)
STEVE DAVIS, SPORTS RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: My pleasure.
HARRIS: All right, Steve, let me start with you. What are you hearing from your listeners?
DAVIS: Well, not as much as I think maybe the columnists and talk show hosts think they should. It is...
HARRIS: Oh, really now?
DAVIS: Yes.
I think the average fan, they want home runs. They don't necessarily -- the ones that call into the show, of course, have an opinion about it. But I think not as many people as you might expect are outraged by this. They want the home runs. And they are not the ones that are putting their bodies at risk. And so I think you can make the case that, hey, it's bad for kids and all that, which I would say, but I don't know that fans are outraged as maybe as much as they should be, because, you look at the polls, they knew this.
HARRIS: Right. DAVIS: Over 90 percent of the fans, you look at the polls, say, hey, I knew Bonds was on steroids. Now he's just telling me what I already knew.
HARRIS: Chris, what's your take on this? What are you hearing from your listeners?
CHRIS DIMINO, SPORTS RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Well, I agree with Steve.
The thing that really horrifies me more than anything else, though, is the idea is that nobody has ever seemed to talk about the legal aspect of this. I have met a lot of baseball players. I'm sure Steve has. And you probably have as well. I have never one smart enough to actually go into his bath tub and make this stuff, which means you bought it. You possessed it, because it somehow got in a cup.
And in the case of Bonds, according to Gary Sheffield, there might have been distribution. Jeremy Giambi has already said his brother gave him some of these things. Again, you have another charge there. The risk-reward in baseball has never been high enough. It's more about the reward from a dollars and cents point of view. There's never been a risk because baseball has decided to turn that blind eye.
HARRIS: And, Steve, you believe you haven't heard more outrage because the fans have a sense that all of this stuff, eventually, down the road, will become legal; it will be subjected to FDA testing and that it will be available with a doctor's prescriptions; they have a sense that the genie is out of the bottle and you can't put it back in?
DAVIS: Well, I don't think it's ever going to become legal.
I think Chris raises a good point, which is the letter of the law in baseball, these guys didn't cheat, although you know they cheated. They did something -- it's ironic that they did something that was illegal in our country, yet not considered cheating in baseball. And that's something that you have to say is disturbing.
I think the average baseball player isn't not doing steroids because they are afraid of getting caught.
HARRIS: Right.
DAVIS: I think they're not doing it because they're afraid of what might happen to their body.
DIMINO: Well, let's just cut to the chase in terms of the baseball way of thinking.
HARRIS: Yes.
DIMINO: Sammy Sosa comes to the bat with a corked -- excuse me, comes to the plate with a corked bat.
HARRIS: Right. Right.
DAVIS: He gets busted. By baseball rules, he gets eight games. He is actually allowed to knock it down to seven. Ridiculous.
Sammy Sosa comes up to the plate with a needle in his rear end, that doesn't matter to baseball. That's how far along this whole thing has gotten. It's crazy that baseball has not followed any letters of the law. They've followed their own. And I blame the Players Union and I blame Bud Selig, who threw juiced baseballs into this mix to assure that we have home runs and runs.
HARRIS: OK. Now, that sort of gets to it for me. Now, there was the baseball strike in, what was it, '94?
DIMINO: Ninety-four.
HARRIS: It was '94.
DIMINO: Right, canceled the World Series.
HARRIS: That's right, canceled the World Series.
And then there was this whole -- a lot of this hand-wringing going on. What's going to happen to baseball? Baseball is dead as we know it. Then we get to '98, OK, and then we've got Sosa and McGwire.
(CROSSTALK)
DIMINO: Which can never -- it can never happen again. That feel-good story is gone. I don't care if somebody gets a shot to hit 88 home runs. You will never have the celebration of the home run the way that it was.
(CROSSTALK)
DAVIS: Well, it's tainted by what those two guys did.
Don't forget, now those names are getting thrown in there.
HARRIS: Yes.
DAVIS: We'll never know what happened with McGwire.
I have spoken to two Major League Baseball players in the last five days, both of whom think that, look, McGwire and Sosa's name deserve to get thrown into this mix as well.
HARRIS: And my point is that there was a lot of hand-wringing, yes, but there was also a lot of winking and nodding from the owners, from the Players Association, from the players themselves. How do we get butts back in the seat?
(CROSSTALK)
DIMINO: Well, it's a business.
HARRIS: People love -- and, Steve, you said it. People love the home run ball.
DIMINO: It's a business more than anything else. It's become a business more than a game.
I love baseball for the three hours it's played. I don't necessarily care about too much about it the other 21 hours of the day. That's what I think a lot of baseball fans are feeling. But that three hours seems to be good enough for baseball and maybe good enough for the fans to go buy their tickets.
HARRIS: All right, here's the other point. Barry Bonds hits a whole bunch of home runs. It raises -- he gets a big contract. Jason Giambi hits a whole bunch of home runs. He gets a huge contract from the Yankees. It raises the bar for everyone.
So now Carlos Beltran gets more money. Adam Dunn gets more money. Part of the reason that we are not going to see any strong language from the players or any strong statement from the players is because they are all getting their boats floated by these home runs and this juice.
DAVIS: Let me make a point on that, though, Tony, which is that there are certain players that are making a lot of money.
I spoke to one player on the Orioles who doesn't do steroids. I believe he doesn't do steroids. You look at his statistics, you know he doesn't do steroids. And one of the things that he tells me is, this is costing him a lot of money. Because he doesn't do steroids, he feels like he would be considered maybe a better player in baseball if he didn't have to compete with the guys that are doing steroids.
So you look at some of the surveys out there -- "USA Today" did a survey I think two years ago; 80 percent of the players want steroid testing. The problem is, is that the union isn't listening to the players. And the players aren't coming out. They are not saying it publicly. They're saying it behind closed doors.
DIMINO: This is why this isn't a real union. I'm tired of the word union being thrown around.
It's an association and that's what it is. If 51 percent, one man, one vote, which is the way that it's supposed to work, says, we want this, you should be able to implement it tomorrow. If they are not smart to understand and then they want to throw around figures like 80 percent, they're not doing their job. Bud Selig has sat on his hands on a lot of issues over the last few years. It's time that he gets off.
I'm horrified by Bud Selig's ability to look into a camera and try to tell me that he is going to fix something that he was a part of. Juiced baseballs and turning the eye here, baseball and its hierarchy has been absolutely as guilty as the Players Association in this.
DAVIS: And, Chris, how about this? How about the fact that baseball is actually asking or at least accepting the fact that government will get involved? Who would have ever thought that a professional sports league would welcome government intervention to solve a problem?
HARRIS: Yes.
DIMINO: Well, that's a couple of buddies.
And you've got to understand, John McCain, I give him credit. He's done it on the boxing world, or at least attempted. But here's the thing that is going to be interesting for me.
HARRIS: Yes.
DIMINO: You can cannot parade Barry Bonds around to track down 756. Bud Selig's closest associate in baseball, the biggest name he has on his side is Hank Aaron.
(CROSSTALK)
HARRIS: We are all going to be watching that story.
DIMINO: We are all going to be watching it differently. And I'm telling you, I don't care if a guy has got 89 home runs and the magic number for somebody is '90, you will never capture what you had in '98. That part of it is done. People will not buy into it.
HARRIS: Last word. Last word, Steve. Last word.
DAVIS: Well, I think it's going to be very interesting to see how this plays out. I don't think that Bud Selig is going to get the resolution he wants as far as a quick agreement.
HARRIS: Yes. I agree with you.
DAVIS: Because the Players Union will continue to hold out.
DIMINO: It's a chip.
HARRIS: And they will not want to give up all these privacy issues.
(CROSSTALK)
HARRIS: All right, I've got to go. I've got to go.
DAVIS: OK. OK.
(CROSSTALK)
HARRIS: I'm way over here. That's good stuff.
Steve Davis and Chris Dimino, we appreciate it. Plenty to talk about on this.
DIMINO: Thanks.
HARRIS: And we will be following it in the days and weeks and months and into spring training and beyond. Thank you, guys.
DIMINO: Thanks.
DAVIS: Thank you.
PHILLIPS: Other news across America now.
Investigators still searching for the cause of a frightening high-rise fire in downtown Chicago. That fire broke out yesterday and burned for more than four hours. No one was killed, but at least 37 people were injured. One woman who escaped the flames told us what she saw.
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SARAH NADLEHOFFER, CHICAGO FIRE VICTIM: We were working late and the office started filling up with smoke. So my partners and I left the office and went to the nearest stairwell. And we went down one flight and it was very smoky. And it was -- it seemed to be worse in the stairwell, especially going, descending. So we exited the stairwell and we went back into our office. And I went straight to my phone and called 911.
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PHILLIPS: An incredible survival story in Indiana. This car crash left the drive, a 28-year-old woman, impaled by a metal fence rod. The force of the accident pushed the 12-foot rod through her mouth and out the back of her neck. Emergency crews say that they were shocked to find her alive. She's hospitalized and in critical condition.
A robbery suspect picked the wrong store to hold up in Ohio. Check this out. The clerk gave him the money he demanded, then a bullet to the shoulder. After receiving medical treatment, the suspect now faces robbery charges.
HARRIS: First, there was the drink-tossing incident at the basket-brawl in Detroit. Now we have got this, the teddy toss in Calgary. But this scene is inspiring thanks, rather than arrest warrants. Details ahead.
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PHILLIPS: Well, it's raining teddy bears north of the border.
Check this out. Fans pelted the ice with teddy bears at a junior hockey game last night in Calgary. Well, it happened after Calgary scored its first goal about 13 minutes into the game. In all, about 13,000 bears hit the ice, so many that it took a half-an-hour to clear them all out. But it was for a good cause, because the animals will be donated to a local children's hospital.
HARRIS: That's all the hockey you are going to see this year. That's it right there. Enjoy. Well, OK.
That wraps this Tuesday edition of LIVE FROM.
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