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Questions Arise as Kerik Steps Down as Nominee; Peterson Jury Debates His Fate; Armless Iraqi Boy Paints to Raise Money for Iraqi Children; Investigation Opens into Ukraine Opposition Leader's Poisoning; Man, 80, Rescued at Sea

Aired December 13, 2004 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MILES O'BRIEN, CO-HOST: How did Bernie Kerik get so far in the vetting process for homeland security chief? Was it a nanny problem or was it something else from his past that ended it?
RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Rusty Dornin in Redwood City, California, where the tension mounts as this jury continues to deliberate Scott Peterson's final punishment. Details coming up.

BETTY NGUYEN, CO-HOST: Plus, it's confirmed. Ukrainian opposition leader Viktor Yushchenco was poisoned. The big question is who did it? We're live from Kiev.

O'BRIEN: A wet suit and instincts. An 80-year-old spear fisherman tells the tale of how he survived 18 hours alone in the cold waters of the Atlantic.

From the CNN center in Atlanta, I'm Miles O'Brien.

NGUYEN: And I'm Betty Nguyen, in for Kyra Phillips. CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.

O'BRIEN: And we begin with questions about Bernie Kerik. He's not the first high-profile candidate to fall victim to "nannygate." But Kerik's decision to withdraw his nomination to head homeland security raising all kinds of questions today.

Even one of his biggest supporters is red-faced. A spokeswoman for former New York mayor, Rudy Giuliani, says he apologized to President Bush at a White House dinner last night.

Giuliani himself says he's glad the nanny issue came out now, not later.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: The thinks about his personal life, he's going to have to answer himself. But those are all things that in a confirmation process could have been handled. There would have been answers for them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't think any of those would have derailed him?

GIULIANI: Any of those? Well, you know, that's all speculative. But the fact is that those are all things for which he has answers. Probably would have consumed a lot of time in the process. I think he probably had the votes to get through. Everyone thinks he would have been superbly qualified for it.

The issue of employing an illegal is like a bright line test. You just can't get past that issue. These others, you can give explanations to.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Now, many others are wondering about Kerik and the vetting process that allowed him to be nominated in the first place. CNN's Mary Snow with that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Congratulations.

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): One week the president touted him as being superbly qualified to be homeland security director. But within days, Bernard Kerik pulled the plug on his own nomination.

BERNARD KERIK, FORMER HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY NOMINEE: It could have been an embarrassment to the president and his administration, and I just -- I couldn't do that.

SNOW: Kerik pins the blame on discovering last week that a former nanny may not have been a legal immigrant and there were tax issues involving her payment.

Saturday, a White House official said Kerik should have brought it to the administration's attention sooner. But some question the White House's role.

PAUL LIGHT, PROFESSOR, NEW YORK UNIVERSITY: This is presidential appointments process 101. And it's pretty clear to me that the White House moved much too quickly.

Notwithstanding what they're all saying today, I think they moved on the basis of Mayor Giuliani's endorsement, the fact that the senior democrats in New York endorsed Kerik. They moved ahead without doing their homework.

SNOW: But Kerik was coming under scrutiny before the nanny issue. In New York, where Kerik serves as police commissioner, observers say his style may be partly to blame.

MICHAEL GOODWIN, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": He's not attentive to the kind of normal way of doing business that, frankly, most professionals are. He's not a professional guy. He was a street cop who made it big, frankly, in the last few years. And it's just showing that he's kind of not quite ready for this level of scrutiny.

SNOW: Some suggest the very toughness that earned Kerik his stripes and honors may have been the very thing that also added to his failed nomination.

LIGHT: There's a little bit of hubris here when somebody enters the process and says, well, basically, I can survive it because my life story is so compelling. That's just not enough in the presidential appointments process today. And this is really an issue where Bernie Kerik was his own worst enemy.

SNOW: But while Kerik says he believed he would have been confirmed, he also expected the scrutiny and says he didn't want his past to become a distraction.

Mary Snow, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: Now, President Bush may still be looking for a candidate to head homeland security, but he's made his pick to fill the other remaining vacancy in his cabinet.

The president today nominated EPA chief Michael Leavitt to serve as secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services. If confirmed by the Senate, Leavitt would replace Tommy Thompson.

O'BRIEN: From NASA to LSU. Sources telling CNN that's the path Sean O'Keefe is taking after spending three years running the space agency.

They say he'll announce his resignation as NASA administrator tomorrow, set to accept an offer to become chancellor of Louisiana State University. That's his home state.

So who will fill his spot at NASA? We'll talk about possible replacements with a guest from NASAWatch.com. That's coming up in the next hour of CNN's LIVE FROM.

In California, legal observers say it's a good sign for Scott Peterson. For the third day, the jury is deliberating whether he should live or die. Still no decision.

CNN's Rusty Dornin at the courthouse in Redwood City, California, where she's been for an awful long time now.

Rusty, what do we know?

DORNIN: Well, Miles, each moment that ticks by increases the chances, of course, that there could be a hung jury in this case. That would mean that this jury would be dismissed. They'd have to pick a new one unless the prosecutors worked out a deal. And just -- then Scott Peterson would be sentenced to life in prison without parole.

Now in that case, also the gag order would remain in effect. No one would be able to talk about this case, except for the jury that was just dismissed. They would be able to talk about the case. But the families and the prosecutors and the defense, they would not be able to talk about it. Now they've been deliberating for about 3 1/2 hours more in this penalty phase than they did in their deliberations to convict Scott Peterson. They've been about 10 1/2 hours.

There is -- both sides are in judge's chambers this morning, the defense and the prosecution. A little bit of commotion.

And to show you how much people read into everything that goes on in that courtroom, a little while ago a bailiff came in and pulled a chair out of the courtroom, pulled it back, assuming into the judge's chambers. Some people wondering whether perhaps, if there were some problems, the judge would be interviewing each juror about any problems that would arise.

Of course, we don't know that, but those are some of the things that could happen in this case. And so right now we're just watching and waiting.

The crowd is beginning to build again. On Friday there were a couple hundred people here spectators, court watchers, people -- some of the people that had been here 40, 50, even 100 days watching this case. They're beginning to gather again, perhaps expecting a verdict today, we hope -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right. A couple thoughts here, Rusty. First of all, the jury has deliberated longer now on this issue than it has on the verdict itself. Correct?

DORNIN: That's right. Three hours longer.

O'BRIEN: And -- and it's worth reminding people, we're talking about just like the actual verdict, one juror can stop this whole process. And so we can just, in our mind's eye, try to figure out what might be going on in that jury room, how many holdouts there might be.

DORNIN: That's right. And that's why the judge, if there is a problem and they start butting heads, you know, nobody is going to budge.

And it's difficult, because people obviously have very strong feelings about the death penalty. And if they're butting heads in there, and they do call for the bailiff or whatever, then the judge will interview each one of them and try to see if there's any -- if there's any way any one of them could change their minds in this.

We don't know that that's what's going on. So far we have not heard any word that the jury has sent out any notes or any requests. So we don't know that that's going on yet.

O'BRIEN: All right, Rusty Dornin is watching it for us. Thank you very much. Stay close -- Betty.

NGUYEN: A year after the capture of Saddam Hussein, the violence rages on in Iraq. It's been an extremely bloody 24 hours for both soldiers and civilians, both Americans and Iraqis. Seven U.S. Marines were killed in two separate incidents Sunday in the volatile Al Anbar province west of Baghdad. It is the deadliest fighting for U.S. troops since the end of October.

In Baghdad, a suicide car bombing outside the Green Zone killed eight people and wounded 15. Another bomb exploded in the northern part of the Iraqi capital, wounding three U.S. soldiers and an Iraqi civilian.

Many had predicted the insurgency would be crippled after the capture of Hussein exactly one year ago.

These famous images of U.S. troops examining the former Iraqi dictator were taken right after he was taken into custody. A translator who was there when Saddam Hussein was pulled out of the spider hole recalls the moment of capture.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAMIR, HELPED CAPTURE SADDAM HUSSEIN: They said, "Samir, come talk to him. Tell him to come out." And I had to talk to him, to tell him come out.

And he start saying, "Don't shoot; don't kill me. Don't shoot."

And it took a little -- a little time to get his hands up. And they asked me to tell him -- to ask him, "Put your hands up. We want to see your hand." I told him, "Put your hands up."

And it was like one hand. I said, "Let me see your other hand." And he did this -- I said, "No. Both hands up."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: A 13-year-old boy was a portrait of suffering during the Iraq war, and now Ali Abbas is helping other children in need.

ITN's Jasmine Lowson has his story of recovery and hope.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASMINE LOWSON, ITN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Study brush control and competent design. The remarkable work of a 13-year-old boy painting with his foot.

Ali Abbas lost both his arms in a bomb blast in Iraq last year. Now he's learning to express his self through images remembered.

ALI ABBAS, INJURED IN IRAQ WAR: It was near to my mosque. The mosque I used to go and pray there. There I would -- there is rabbit in the park.

LOWSON: Pictures of Ali helpless in hospital in Baghdad moved the world. Donations flooded in and enabled him to be brought to Britain for treatment and to be fitted with false arms, which he likes to remove to paint. ZAFAR KHAN, CHAIRMAN, LIMBLESS ASSOCIATION: His arms are controlled electronically. And he has got movement, which is this, and that movement. For art, he needs fine kind of movement.

ABBAS: I left both hospitals in Iraq to help lots of people in Iraq.

LOWSON: Ali now feels he can repay some of the kindness he's received. Sales from his latest pictures will now go to help some more children in Iraq.

Jasmine Lowson, ITV News.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: All right. It's not a best-selling thriller just yet. But with one candidate poisoned, the other lashing out at the U.S., the Ukraine election drama stays in the headlines. We are live from Kiev next.

And later, we're live from L.A. as TV's "Desperate Housewives" have a golden moment. More on LIVE FROM after this.

ANNOUNCER: You're watching LIVE FROM on CNN, the most trusted name in news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: I guess we could call it "Extreme Makeover: Diabolical Politics" edition. Austrian doctors say dioxin poisoning caused the radical and disfiguring transformation of Viktor Yushchenko.

And now lawmakers in Ukraine are reopening their investigation into what happened to the opposition leader.

CNN's Jill Dougherty in Kiev where there is even more drama regarding who is in charge of the probe.

The plot thickens, Jill.

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's true. Miles, you know we have half the mystery solved, which is what was the chemical that was used? We know it was dioxin. It was actually part of Agent Orange.

We know that it, according to the doctors in Vienna, that it was given to him, probably, in a liquid, because it is soluble. Presumably, they said it might even be in his soup, and he did have dinner the night that he fell ill.

And they believe that it was by a third party. And that is where the questions come up. Who was that third party?

Now Mr. Yushchenko has said all along that he believes it was the government in some form, but he's been very vague about that. And now even with the investigation, there actually will be two, a parliamentary investigation. And the justice department will be relaunching an investigation into this.

But he's saying he wants that to be done after the election, because we only have less than two weeks to go. And he said it's extremely sensitive.

But Miles, I can tell you that one of his -- his chief of staff was on the air with CNN today and said that they were warned by former secret service police, as he put it, that they were going to -- somebody was going to try to get rid of or deal with Yushchenko, and probably the way they might do it would be with poison.

O'BRIEN: Jill, let me ask you this. And there's no real easy way to say it. I guess it sounds kind of crass. But to the extent that this might help Mr. Yushchenko politically, are there some in Ukraine who are saying this might be all some sort of Machiavellian plot which he conjured up or his supporters have conjured up in some way?

DOUGHERTY: Absolutely. There are people who have literally said that.

But you know, it cuts two ways, Miles. You'd have to say, on the one hand, it could help him. There could be a sympathy vote. People who don't trust the government, et cetera, they could say, you know, we think this is terrible and we will vote for him.

But on the other hand, you're hearing from Mr. Yanukovych, Viktor Yanukovych, who is the man he'll be once against up once again, up against in this campaign, the prime minister. Yanukovych is saying, look, this is a sick man.

And so that would undercut Yushchenko. That could be -- some people might say why should I vote for a man who's sick?

Now, his doctors say that he is on mend, but his face will take perhaps even years to get back to normal but that he can function as president. But it does kind of undercut -- it could undercut his position.

O'BRIEN: It is asking the voters, if in fact this investigation is delayed, it is asking them to make a decision about their future without really sort of full disclosure here. Correct?

DOUGHERTY: That's true. But I guess you just have to go with what the doctors from Vienna are saying, which he is on mend, his internal organs, his digestive tract, the pain, all of that is pretty much gone. And they say it doesn't affect his mental capacity, et cetera.

So that's what the voters have to decide. Do they believe that? And a lot of people here who are really the true believers for Yushchenko are saying we knew that he was poisoned all along. It's not going to affect us, and we're going to vote for him.

O'BRIEN: CNN's Jill Dougherty in Kiev, Ukraine, thank you very much -- Betty. NGUYEN: News around the world now.

Striking back in Gaza. Hours after five Israeli soldiers were killed in a deadly tunnel blast in Gaza, Israeli helicopters fired on two Gaza City workshops suspected of making weapons. Palestinian sources say missiles also struck the home of a Hamas activist, but it was empty and no casualties were reported.

In Togo, targeting malaria, the deadly mosquito born illness that kills more than a million people a year, mostly children. International aid workers launch a blitz to hand out a million insecticide treated mosquito nets.

Meanwhile, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation donates more than $42 million to a non-profit drug company trying to turn an ancient Chinese remedy into a cheap malaria treatment.

And it's a melee in the manger. Check this out. A protester whacks vindictive at London's Madame Tussaud's, knocking over soccer star David Beckham and his wife, Posh Spice and the controversial nativity scene in which their statues were cast as Joseph and the Virgin Mary. A spokeswoman says, though, Miles, the baby is just fine.

O'BRIEN: I'm glad to hear that.

OK, say you're 80 years old. You're stranded alone out in the Atlantic Ocean. So, what would you do to keep alive?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

IGNACIO SIBERIO, RESCUED AT SEA: I had one thought, that I put as a fixation over here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: All right. That one thought kept this diver going. We'll tell you his amazing story next.

And, an elevated risk of stroke for sufferers of a particular type of headache. The details are ahead. LIVE FROM continues. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Well, it sounds like a variation on the Ernest Hemingway man versus nature classic. But this version of "The Old Man and the Sea" really happened off the Florida Keys this weekend.

Reporter Tina Varona from our affiliate WFOR in Miami on an 80- year-old spear fisherman who lost his boat but not his will to live.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TINA VARONA, WFOR REPORTER (voice-over): Ignacio Siberio spent the day with friends and family in the comforts of his own home, a far cry from trying to survive in the chilly ocean water.

SIBERIO: I relax everything, no matter how cold you feel.

VARONA: For the past 60 years, this 80-year-old fitness guru has been diving faithfully every weekend. But this time he dove straight into danger.

SIBERIO: I saw the boat going far, far, far to the gulf.

VARONA: The boat's anchor gave way to the windy conditions, leaving Ignacio stranded.

SIBERIO: I had one thought, that I put as a fixation here: I cannot do this to my family.

VARONA: With that determination, he grabbed this buoy and held on for dear life.

SIBERIO: I couldn't have spent the night in the same place. I would have been dragged or pushed by the current.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So we were worried.

VARONA: When Ignacio didn't return home, his family contacted the Coast Guard. An all-out search and rescue was under way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a map that we use to coordinate our search efforts.

VARONA: After several hours the search was called off. By daybreak, Ignacio knew it was swim or die. After five straight hours, a boat would finally come into sight. It was Ignacio's friend and nephew.

SIBERIO: The feeling to see friendly people that give you a hand is very rewarding.

CARLOS LOPEZ, SIBERIO'S NEPHEW: He wasn't shaking. He was in excellent shape.

VARONA: Ignacio was eventually found by Conquique (ph), five miles from where he began. His boat literally drifted off the map.

(on camera) Will you go out on the boat again?

SIBERIO: Oh, sure. Oh, sure.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Oh, sure, no problem! Tina Varona with that report.

By the way, in all, Siberio spent 18 hours in the water. Wasn't even hospitalized after the ordeal.

And Betty, doesn't he look good? He's 80 years old.

NGUYEN: Yes, right.

O'BRIEN: This is -- this is a fitness guru. I suspect, though, next time he goes maybe he'll go, maybe, with a buddy.

NGUYEN: Yes. That's the way to do it, just in case.

O'BRIEN: Good idea.

NGUYEN: If only we were all that healthy at 80. Great story.

All right. It's finally a done deal. Oracle has managed to win Peoplesoft after more than a year of negotiations.

Rhonda Schaffler joins us from the New York Stock Exchange with all those details.

Hi, there, Rhonda.

(STOCK REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired December 13, 2004 - 13:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CO-HOST: How did Bernie Kerik get so far in the vetting process for homeland security chief? Was it a nanny problem or was it something else from his past that ended it?
RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Rusty Dornin in Redwood City, California, where the tension mounts as this jury continues to deliberate Scott Peterson's final punishment. Details coming up.

BETTY NGUYEN, CO-HOST: Plus, it's confirmed. Ukrainian opposition leader Viktor Yushchenco was poisoned. The big question is who did it? We're live from Kiev.

O'BRIEN: A wet suit and instincts. An 80-year-old spear fisherman tells the tale of how he survived 18 hours alone in the cold waters of the Atlantic.

From the CNN center in Atlanta, I'm Miles O'Brien.

NGUYEN: And I'm Betty Nguyen, in for Kyra Phillips. CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.

O'BRIEN: And we begin with questions about Bernie Kerik. He's not the first high-profile candidate to fall victim to "nannygate." But Kerik's decision to withdraw his nomination to head homeland security raising all kinds of questions today.

Even one of his biggest supporters is red-faced. A spokeswoman for former New York mayor, Rudy Giuliani, says he apologized to President Bush at a White House dinner last night.

Giuliani himself says he's glad the nanny issue came out now, not later.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: The thinks about his personal life, he's going to have to answer himself. But those are all things that in a confirmation process could have been handled. There would have been answers for them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't think any of those would have derailed him?

GIULIANI: Any of those? Well, you know, that's all speculative. But the fact is that those are all things for which he has answers. Probably would have consumed a lot of time in the process. I think he probably had the votes to get through. Everyone thinks he would have been superbly qualified for it.

The issue of employing an illegal is like a bright line test. You just can't get past that issue. These others, you can give explanations to.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Now, many others are wondering about Kerik and the vetting process that allowed him to be nominated in the first place. CNN's Mary Snow with that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Congratulations.

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): One week the president touted him as being superbly qualified to be homeland security director. But within days, Bernard Kerik pulled the plug on his own nomination.

BERNARD KERIK, FORMER HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY NOMINEE: It could have been an embarrassment to the president and his administration, and I just -- I couldn't do that.

SNOW: Kerik pins the blame on discovering last week that a former nanny may not have been a legal immigrant and there were tax issues involving her payment.

Saturday, a White House official said Kerik should have brought it to the administration's attention sooner. But some question the White House's role.

PAUL LIGHT, PROFESSOR, NEW YORK UNIVERSITY: This is presidential appointments process 101. And it's pretty clear to me that the White House moved much too quickly.

Notwithstanding what they're all saying today, I think they moved on the basis of Mayor Giuliani's endorsement, the fact that the senior democrats in New York endorsed Kerik. They moved ahead without doing their homework.

SNOW: But Kerik was coming under scrutiny before the nanny issue. In New York, where Kerik serves as police commissioner, observers say his style may be partly to blame.

MICHAEL GOODWIN, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": He's not attentive to the kind of normal way of doing business that, frankly, most professionals are. He's not a professional guy. He was a street cop who made it big, frankly, in the last few years. And it's just showing that he's kind of not quite ready for this level of scrutiny.

SNOW: Some suggest the very toughness that earned Kerik his stripes and honors may have been the very thing that also added to his failed nomination.

LIGHT: There's a little bit of hubris here when somebody enters the process and says, well, basically, I can survive it because my life story is so compelling. That's just not enough in the presidential appointments process today. And this is really an issue where Bernie Kerik was his own worst enemy.

SNOW: But while Kerik says he believed he would have been confirmed, he also expected the scrutiny and says he didn't want his past to become a distraction.

Mary Snow, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: Now, President Bush may still be looking for a candidate to head homeland security, but he's made his pick to fill the other remaining vacancy in his cabinet.

The president today nominated EPA chief Michael Leavitt to serve as secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services. If confirmed by the Senate, Leavitt would replace Tommy Thompson.

O'BRIEN: From NASA to LSU. Sources telling CNN that's the path Sean O'Keefe is taking after spending three years running the space agency.

They say he'll announce his resignation as NASA administrator tomorrow, set to accept an offer to become chancellor of Louisiana State University. That's his home state.

So who will fill his spot at NASA? We'll talk about possible replacements with a guest from NASAWatch.com. That's coming up in the next hour of CNN's LIVE FROM.

In California, legal observers say it's a good sign for Scott Peterson. For the third day, the jury is deliberating whether he should live or die. Still no decision.

CNN's Rusty Dornin at the courthouse in Redwood City, California, where she's been for an awful long time now.

Rusty, what do we know?

DORNIN: Well, Miles, each moment that ticks by increases the chances, of course, that there could be a hung jury in this case. That would mean that this jury would be dismissed. They'd have to pick a new one unless the prosecutors worked out a deal. And just -- then Scott Peterson would be sentenced to life in prison without parole.

Now in that case, also the gag order would remain in effect. No one would be able to talk about this case, except for the jury that was just dismissed. They would be able to talk about the case. But the families and the prosecutors and the defense, they would not be able to talk about it. Now they've been deliberating for about 3 1/2 hours more in this penalty phase than they did in their deliberations to convict Scott Peterson. They've been about 10 1/2 hours.

There is -- both sides are in judge's chambers this morning, the defense and the prosecution. A little bit of commotion.

And to show you how much people read into everything that goes on in that courtroom, a little while ago a bailiff came in and pulled a chair out of the courtroom, pulled it back, assuming into the judge's chambers. Some people wondering whether perhaps, if there were some problems, the judge would be interviewing each juror about any problems that would arise.

Of course, we don't know that, but those are some of the things that could happen in this case. And so right now we're just watching and waiting.

The crowd is beginning to build again. On Friday there were a couple hundred people here spectators, court watchers, people -- some of the people that had been here 40, 50, even 100 days watching this case. They're beginning to gather again, perhaps expecting a verdict today, we hope -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right. A couple thoughts here, Rusty. First of all, the jury has deliberated longer now on this issue than it has on the verdict itself. Correct?

DORNIN: That's right. Three hours longer.

O'BRIEN: And -- and it's worth reminding people, we're talking about just like the actual verdict, one juror can stop this whole process. And so we can just, in our mind's eye, try to figure out what might be going on in that jury room, how many holdouts there might be.

DORNIN: That's right. And that's why the judge, if there is a problem and they start butting heads, you know, nobody is going to budge.

And it's difficult, because people obviously have very strong feelings about the death penalty. And if they're butting heads in there, and they do call for the bailiff or whatever, then the judge will interview each one of them and try to see if there's any -- if there's any way any one of them could change their minds in this.

We don't know that that's what's going on. So far we have not heard any word that the jury has sent out any notes or any requests. So we don't know that that's going on yet.

O'BRIEN: All right, Rusty Dornin is watching it for us. Thank you very much. Stay close -- Betty.

NGUYEN: A year after the capture of Saddam Hussein, the violence rages on in Iraq. It's been an extremely bloody 24 hours for both soldiers and civilians, both Americans and Iraqis. Seven U.S. Marines were killed in two separate incidents Sunday in the volatile Al Anbar province west of Baghdad. It is the deadliest fighting for U.S. troops since the end of October.

In Baghdad, a suicide car bombing outside the Green Zone killed eight people and wounded 15. Another bomb exploded in the northern part of the Iraqi capital, wounding three U.S. soldiers and an Iraqi civilian.

Many had predicted the insurgency would be crippled after the capture of Hussein exactly one year ago.

These famous images of U.S. troops examining the former Iraqi dictator were taken right after he was taken into custody. A translator who was there when Saddam Hussein was pulled out of the spider hole recalls the moment of capture.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAMIR, HELPED CAPTURE SADDAM HUSSEIN: They said, "Samir, come talk to him. Tell him to come out." And I had to talk to him, to tell him come out.

And he start saying, "Don't shoot; don't kill me. Don't shoot."

And it took a little -- a little time to get his hands up. And they asked me to tell him -- to ask him, "Put your hands up. We want to see your hand." I told him, "Put your hands up."

And it was like one hand. I said, "Let me see your other hand." And he did this -- I said, "No. Both hands up."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: A 13-year-old boy was a portrait of suffering during the Iraq war, and now Ali Abbas is helping other children in need.

ITN's Jasmine Lowson has his story of recovery and hope.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASMINE LOWSON, ITN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Study brush control and competent design. The remarkable work of a 13-year-old boy painting with his foot.

Ali Abbas lost both his arms in a bomb blast in Iraq last year. Now he's learning to express his self through images remembered.

ALI ABBAS, INJURED IN IRAQ WAR: It was near to my mosque. The mosque I used to go and pray there. There I would -- there is rabbit in the park.

LOWSON: Pictures of Ali helpless in hospital in Baghdad moved the world. Donations flooded in and enabled him to be brought to Britain for treatment and to be fitted with false arms, which he likes to remove to paint. ZAFAR KHAN, CHAIRMAN, LIMBLESS ASSOCIATION: His arms are controlled electronically. And he has got movement, which is this, and that movement. For art, he needs fine kind of movement.

ABBAS: I left both hospitals in Iraq to help lots of people in Iraq.

LOWSON: Ali now feels he can repay some of the kindness he's received. Sales from his latest pictures will now go to help some more children in Iraq.

Jasmine Lowson, ITV News.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: All right. It's not a best-selling thriller just yet. But with one candidate poisoned, the other lashing out at the U.S., the Ukraine election drama stays in the headlines. We are live from Kiev next.

And later, we're live from L.A. as TV's "Desperate Housewives" have a golden moment. More on LIVE FROM after this.

ANNOUNCER: You're watching LIVE FROM on CNN, the most trusted name in news.

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O'BRIEN: I guess we could call it "Extreme Makeover: Diabolical Politics" edition. Austrian doctors say dioxin poisoning caused the radical and disfiguring transformation of Viktor Yushchenko.

And now lawmakers in Ukraine are reopening their investigation into what happened to the opposition leader.

CNN's Jill Dougherty in Kiev where there is even more drama regarding who is in charge of the probe.

The plot thickens, Jill.

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's true. Miles, you know we have half the mystery solved, which is what was the chemical that was used? We know it was dioxin. It was actually part of Agent Orange.

We know that it, according to the doctors in Vienna, that it was given to him, probably, in a liquid, because it is soluble. Presumably, they said it might even be in his soup, and he did have dinner the night that he fell ill.

And they believe that it was by a third party. And that is where the questions come up. Who was that third party?

Now Mr. Yushchenko has said all along that he believes it was the government in some form, but he's been very vague about that. And now even with the investigation, there actually will be two, a parliamentary investigation. And the justice department will be relaunching an investigation into this.

But he's saying he wants that to be done after the election, because we only have less than two weeks to go. And he said it's extremely sensitive.

But Miles, I can tell you that one of his -- his chief of staff was on the air with CNN today and said that they were warned by former secret service police, as he put it, that they were going to -- somebody was going to try to get rid of or deal with Yushchenko, and probably the way they might do it would be with poison.

O'BRIEN: Jill, let me ask you this. And there's no real easy way to say it. I guess it sounds kind of crass. But to the extent that this might help Mr. Yushchenko politically, are there some in Ukraine who are saying this might be all some sort of Machiavellian plot which he conjured up or his supporters have conjured up in some way?

DOUGHERTY: Absolutely. There are people who have literally said that.

But you know, it cuts two ways, Miles. You'd have to say, on the one hand, it could help him. There could be a sympathy vote. People who don't trust the government, et cetera, they could say, you know, we think this is terrible and we will vote for him.

But on the other hand, you're hearing from Mr. Yanukovych, Viktor Yanukovych, who is the man he'll be once against up once again, up against in this campaign, the prime minister. Yanukovych is saying, look, this is a sick man.

And so that would undercut Yushchenko. That could be -- some people might say why should I vote for a man who's sick?

Now, his doctors say that he is on mend, but his face will take perhaps even years to get back to normal but that he can function as president. But it does kind of undercut -- it could undercut his position.

O'BRIEN: It is asking the voters, if in fact this investigation is delayed, it is asking them to make a decision about their future without really sort of full disclosure here. Correct?

DOUGHERTY: That's true. But I guess you just have to go with what the doctors from Vienna are saying, which he is on mend, his internal organs, his digestive tract, the pain, all of that is pretty much gone. And they say it doesn't affect his mental capacity, et cetera.

So that's what the voters have to decide. Do they believe that? And a lot of people here who are really the true believers for Yushchenko are saying we knew that he was poisoned all along. It's not going to affect us, and we're going to vote for him.

O'BRIEN: CNN's Jill Dougherty in Kiev, Ukraine, thank you very much -- Betty. NGUYEN: News around the world now.

Striking back in Gaza. Hours after five Israeli soldiers were killed in a deadly tunnel blast in Gaza, Israeli helicopters fired on two Gaza City workshops suspected of making weapons. Palestinian sources say missiles also struck the home of a Hamas activist, but it was empty and no casualties were reported.

In Togo, targeting malaria, the deadly mosquito born illness that kills more than a million people a year, mostly children. International aid workers launch a blitz to hand out a million insecticide treated mosquito nets.

Meanwhile, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation donates more than $42 million to a non-profit drug company trying to turn an ancient Chinese remedy into a cheap malaria treatment.

And it's a melee in the manger. Check this out. A protester whacks vindictive at London's Madame Tussaud's, knocking over soccer star David Beckham and his wife, Posh Spice and the controversial nativity scene in which their statues were cast as Joseph and the Virgin Mary. A spokeswoman says, though, Miles, the baby is just fine.

O'BRIEN: I'm glad to hear that.

OK, say you're 80 years old. You're stranded alone out in the Atlantic Ocean. So, what would you do to keep alive?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

IGNACIO SIBERIO, RESCUED AT SEA: I had one thought, that I put as a fixation over here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: All right. That one thought kept this diver going. We'll tell you his amazing story next.

And, an elevated risk of stroke for sufferers of a particular type of headache. The details are ahead. LIVE FROM continues. Stay with us.

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O'BRIEN: Well, it sounds like a variation on the Ernest Hemingway man versus nature classic. But this version of "The Old Man and the Sea" really happened off the Florida Keys this weekend.

Reporter Tina Varona from our affiliate WFOR in Miami on an 80- year-old spear fisherman who lost his boat but not his will to live.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TINA VARONA, WFOR REPORTER (voice-over): Ignacio Siberio spent the day with friends and family in the comforts of his own home, a far cry from trying to survive in the chilly ocean water.

SIBERIO: I relax everything, no matter how cold you feel.

VARONA: For the past 60 years, this 80-year-old fitness guru has been diving faithfully every weekend. But this time he dove straight into danger.

SIBERIO: I saw the boat going far, far, far to the gulf.

VARONA: The boat's anchor gave way to the windy conditions, leaving Ignacio stranded.

SIBERIO: I had one thought, that I put as a fixation here: I cannot do this to my family.

VARONA: With that determination, he grabbed this buoy and held on for dear life.

SIBERIO: I couldn't have spent the night in the same place. I would have been dragged or pushed by the current.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So we were worried.

VARONA: When Ignacio didn't return home, his family contacted the Coast Guard. An all-out search and rescue was under way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a map that we use to coordinate our search efforts.

VARONA: After several hours the search was called off. By daybreak, Ignacio knew it was swim or die. After five straight hours, a boat would finally come into sight. It was Ignacio's friend and nephew.

SIBERIO: The feeling to see friendly people that give you a hand is very rewarding.

CARLOS LOPEZ, SIBERIO'S NEPHEW: He wasn't shaking. He was in excellent shape.

VARONA: Ignacio was eventually found by Conquique (ph), five miles from where he began. His boat literally drifted off the map.

(on camera) Will you go out on the boat again?

SIBERIO: Oh, sure. Oh, sure.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Oh, sure, no problem! Tina Varona with that report.

By the way, in all, Siberio spent 18 hours in the water. Wasn't even hospitalized after the ordeal.

And Betty, doesn't he look good? He's 80 years old.

NGUYEN: Yes, right.

O'BRIEN: This is -- this is a fitness guru. I suspect, though, next time he goes maybe he'll go, maybe, with a buddy.

NGUYEN: Yes. That's the way to do it, just in case.

O'BRIEN: Good idea.

NGUYEN: If only we were all that healthy at 80. Great story.

All right. It's finally a done deal. Oracle has managed to win Peoplesoft after more than a year of negotiations.

Rhonda Schaffler joins us from the New York Stock Exchange with all those details.

Hi, there, Rhonda.

(STOCK REPORT)

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