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Bush Defends Rumsfeld; Gulf War Veterans May Suffer Effects of Oil Fires
Aired December 20, 2004 - 14:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: "Now in the News," later today Lisa Montgomery is scheduled to appear in court in Kansas City, Kansas, accused of killing Bobbie Jo Stinnett who was 8 months pregnant, then cutting the fetus from Stinnett's womb and masquerading as the baby's mother. The baby is hospitalized in good condition.
Not an enemy combatant. That's what the Pentagon is now saying about one prisoner being held at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Without providing details officials say a military review has determined the man was wrongly classified. he'll be released to his home country soon. It will be the second such release since the Supreme Court ruled Guantanamo prisoners can challenge their detentions.
The terrorists in Iraq will fail. Those words from President Bush today as he held a wide-ranging news conference. He insists Iraq will hold democratic elections on schedule at the end of next month. Though he acknowledges the process won't be trouble free
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: First this hour, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld in a show of support today from the man who counts most.
With more congressional flack coming Rumsfeld's way, chiefly over Iraq, President Bush has stepped in. At a news conference this morning, he praised the job Rumsfeld is doing and signaled he remains in good standing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When I asked the -- the secretary to stay on as secretary of defense, I was very pleased when he said yes. And I asked him to stay on because I understand the nature of the job of the secretary of defense. And I believe he's doing a really fine job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NGUYEN: Joining us now for more on the story, from the Pentagon, CNN's Kathleen Koch.
Hi, there, Kathleen.
KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Betty.
It was quite a vote of confidence for the embattled defense secretary. It's been a rough year for Donald Rumsfeld, who is, indeed, a very firm believer in the president's policy in Iraq.
Calls for Rumsfeld's resignation started back in the spring when the Abu Ghraib prison abuse scandal broke. More eventually lawmakers, disappointed in his handling of the war in Iraq, both Republican and Democrat, have said that they have lost confidence in the defense secretary.
And then there was Rumsfeld's response when questioned recently about the lack of armored vehicles in Iraq that some believe show that he is insensitive to the needs of the troops on the ground there. Still even some critics doubt that removing Rumsfeld would improve the situation in Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SPEC. THOMAS WILSON, U.S. ARMY: Now, why do we soldiers have to dig through local landfills for pieces of scrap metal and compromised ballistic glass to up armor our vehicles?
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: As you know, you go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want.
SEN. CARL LEVIN (D-MI), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: There's been a lot of mistakes, but the mistakes have been mainly policy mistakes on the part of the administration, going in as unilaterally as they did without the support of the world community through the United Nations, disbanding the Iraqi army, not having a plan for the aftermath, leaving out the top professional leaders in this country.
In planning for and aftermath, they made a lot of mistakes. They're unwilling to acknowledge any mistakes. But that's mainly the policies of this administration. And if I thought those policies would change by changing the secretary of defense, I'd be all for it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KOCH: Secretary Rumsfeld has also gotten some flack for having an automated signature machine sign his name on letters of condolence to families of those who have lost loved ones in Iraq. The secretary now says that he plans to sign those letters personally himself.
But it did, indeed, put the president -- the whole fact, in the unusual position today of not only having to defending his defense secretary's actions in Iraq but his character, saying that Rumsfeld underneath his, quote, "rough and gruff demeanor" is a good human being who cares deeply about the military -- Betty.
NGUYEN: CNN's Kathleen Koch at the Pentagon for us today. Thank you, Kathleen -- Miles.
MILES O'BRIEN, CO-HOST: Well, compared with the current military campaign, the previous war with Iraq was relatively quick and decisive, to say the least.
But a report out today provides another reminder that the '91 war in Kuwait still has costs of its own. The report says hundreds of oil well fires that were set by Iraqi troops in the waning days of the war pose potential health threats to U.S. combat veterans.
And joining me now to talk more about it is Steve Robinson. He is executive director of the National Gulf Resource Center right here in Washington.
Steve, good to have you with us.
STEVE ROBINSON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, NATIONAL GULF RESOURCE CENTER: My pleasure.
O'BRIEN: First of all, give us the background on this. You've had veterans complaining of serious health effects, Gulf War syndrome, all kinds of things since the Gulf War. This is the first time we've heard any mention or link, potentially, to lung cancer.
Are we just hearing about it now because of the latency period on the disease?
ROBINSON: Absolutely. I mean, we've been studying the effects of veterans' illnesses resulting from the first Gulf War. There's been a, basically, a revolution in the way that DOD and the Department of Veterans Affairs have understood that these are real illnesses.
The study by the IOM today looks at cancers in Gulf War veterans. And the reason why it has taken this long for it to come out is the latency period for cancers to develop. But we're really interested in all respiratory illnesses related to the war.
O'BRIEN: It's very difficult in the case of cancer to make a direct link and say this is what caused cancer. So what can -- what can Gulf veterans -- Gulf War veterans do to make that link with the V.A.?
ROBINSON: Yes, it is very interesting. The IOM concluded that -- they looked at all different types of exposures, not specifically Gulf War veterans' exposures.
What needs to happen now is that the IOM needs to do a large scale -- not the IOM but science needs to do a large-scale epidemiological study to look at the prevalence rates for cancer in Gulf War veterans. And if they are higher than the normal population, then we go to Congress with that information and ask for a presumptive service connection.
O'BRIEN: All right. Until that time, until you go through that whole process, there's a lot of sick people who need some treatment. What happens to them?
ROBINSON: There are programs in the Department of Veterans Affairs for those kinds of soldiers. There's the War Related Injury and Illness Studies Center. There's the V.A. medical centers. There's ongoing cancer registries that the V.A. is looking at.
Cancer is a big deal. Lung cancer is a really big deal. I'd encourage veterans -- a lot of times give up, and they don't go to these places. So if they're out there and they have developed these illnesses, we want them to go to the V.A. so we can capture the data, report it, and find out the statistical significance.
O'BRIEN: Now, you mention capturing the data, which brings us to the present day. Another conflict under way. Who knows what sorts of problems these veterans will face? Each group of veterans has its own unique problems.
Is that data collection underway? Is there enough attention being brought to bear on these kinds of long-term health issues?
ROBINSON: The Department of Defense is doing a better job at collecting data. There are environmental monitoring teams on the ground in Iraq, looking at, like, for example, depleted uranium and where it's being used, working next -- next to chemical facilities that are emitting different types of pollutants.
So they're doing a better job. And if they do a good job, we won't have this significant delay between illnesses that present themselves and trying to find the causative factor.
O'BRIEN: Let's talk big picture here as we close it out here. The fight over Gulf War Syndrome was an ugly fight because the Pentagon fought very long and hard to say it just ain't so. And ultimately, the veterans were -- prevailed in this case.
And you can look back in history, veterans who were exposed to atomic tests, whatever the case may be, the Pentagon has resisted its own people when they say, "Look, I'm sick and I think it has something to do with my service." Why is that?
ROBINSON: My -- my gut reaction is they want to kind of prevent these bad news stories from coming out immediately with significant impact. These stories play out over time. They start looking at certain things but don't really focus.
You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to look back over the last 50 years at Agent Orange, mustard gas tests, Gulf War veterans and some of the things we did to ourselves to know that they hurt people.
But science has prevailed. Science now says that these illnesses are real. The DOD and the V.A. have fallen in line. And we look forward to focused research.
O'BRIEN: All right. We do, too. Steve Robinson, thanks for dropping by. Appreciate it.
ROBINSON: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: Betty.
NGUYEN: And then there were four. Arson investigators now have a total of four men in custody in connection with the Maryland subdivision fire earlier this month. Forty-five homes were hit, causing an estimated $10 million in damage.
Earlier I spoke with CNN's law enforcement analyst, Mike Brooks, about the latest arrest and what might have motivated arson on this kind of scale.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NGUYEN: Well, let's put this in a time line, if we could, at least as much information we can. Put the pieces together.
We have Aaron Speed saying, "I'm not involved whatsoever." He fails a polygraph test, and then he says, "I'm a part of it." What kind of -- what -- how?
MIKE BROOKS, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, even before the polygraph, Betty, back on December 10 he was interviewed by law enforcement. And they were -- basically laid out a hypothetical situation.
In fact, reading right from the affidavit -- it's a very interesting case. And it says, "How would you do it?"
And he basically said, "Someone pouring an accelerant followed by someone lighting it."
They asked him what kind of -- how would he light it? He said with a torch. And he was very specific and said a hand-held propane torch. They found that kind of torch at the scene.
Then they get down into possible motive. They still don't know what the motive is. They said, "Who may have set the fire?"
And he said to them, quote, "Someone who works at the site and eventually experienced a great loss." Well, then investigators also cite in the affidavit that his son back in April of -- spring of 2004 had died. He felt that the security company he worked for did not treat him well. So they were looking -- they were looking at that as a possible motive.
But then when they gave him the polygraph on the 16th, he talked about -- he failed the polygraph and then he said that he was present when they were lit, along with some acquaintances.
And from that we go to the investigation with the -- with the Bureau of Alcohol and Tobacco and Firearms and Explosives and FBI finding these other three, one of which at the time he was arrested had on a T-shirt that had "AVFD" on it. That stands for Accokeek Volunteer Fire Department.
He was supposedly an observer. He had applied to be a firefighter but had not gotten full firefighter status as of yet.
NGUYEN: All right. So what is the connection between these three guys and Aaron Speed?
BROOKS: They're acquaintances of somehow. Now, talking to two sources or law enforcement sources close to the investigation today, I said, well, what -- you couldn't get into the specifics.
But he said, "Mike, if you're an investigator -- you're a former investigator." He said, "It's as if I called up someone and said, 'Hey, I want something. I want to do something.' And then he called a good friend of his and then that person knew someone else. That's how they all got together."
What they're working on right now is motive. Was it revenge? Was it excitement, you know? Was it someone who wanted to be a firefighter and couldn't be a firefighter and now they set a fire for excitement? Or was it for fraud? They don't know. They don't know the exact motive. They're looking into that. They hope to have that within the next couple of days.
NGUYEN: All right. In the meantime, we want to talk about another fire today. This one in D.C. Let's look at these dramatic pictures from this fire. Tell us how you know about how this was started.
BROOKS: Unbelievable fire. Unbelievable footage here, Betty. I just spoke with Alan Etter of the D.C. Fire Department. And this video was actually shot by CNN producer Vito Maggiola (ph), who on his own time is a firefighter with the D.C. -- a photographer.
Let's watch and listen for a second.
What this is -- these units, this was a row house in southeast D.C. When they first got there they encountered heavy, heavy fire. Engine eight, which is right around the corner from there, got on the scene. And this is what they were encountered with right at the front door.
Now hear the air horn? You heard the battalion chief tell everyone to, "Get out; get out." They're trying to make entry. D.C. Fire Department is an extremely aggressive firefighters. They try to make entry into the front door. You hear them with the air horn. That is a signal for everyone to evacuate the building.
The fire, they believe, started in the basement and worked its way up. By the time they had gotten there it was already out of control, but they try to make entry.
They -- one man, a 68-year-old man, had jumped from a second story window. He wound up dying. They found the bodies of a 32-year- old woman and her 11-year-old daughter inside the house.
NGUYEN: And part of this building or this house, this row house, actually collapsed. Why was this fire so hard to fight?
BROOKS: It started in the basement. Apparently, a very deep seated fire in the basement had gotten a head start on the firefighters before they got there. You see this thick smoke rolling out from the second floor.
It went up through the walls into the first floor, up into the attic. These kind of houses, I can tell you from experience, row houses in D.C., once it gets up into the walls, it gets to the attic. It gets very, very hard to fight.
You saw the heavy fire conditions they experienced when they arrived.
This has been an unusually heavy fire seasons around the country. I just spoke to Assistant Chief Tim Butters (ph), who's with the Fairfax City Fire Department. And he was saying --- talking about the number of multiple alarms that they've had just in Fairfax County over the last number of weeks.
And I just spoke with Chief Dennis Rubin of the Atlanta Fire Department, and they had a multiple alarm fire at a church here in Atlanta on Saturday. In fact, I was at the scene of that fire. And they actually have a working fire going on right now. They had fires over the night.
Just seems to be because of the cold weather.
NGUYEN: Exactly.
BROOKS: People have to be careful. As the temperature drops, people try to use alternate heat sources, space heaters, these kinds of things. You know, they set them too close to something that's flammable.
And with the Christmas season right now...
NGUYEN: Christmas lights.
BROOKS: ... Christmas trees, Christmas trees. And I just want to remind people that when they go to dispose of their fire -- their trees, don't try to put them in their fireplaces. I've seen fires where they've actually tried to feed them into the fireplaces.
NGUYEN: Bad idea.
BROOKS: Very, very bad idea.
So -- and also, ovens, smoking materials, please be careful. We don't want this to happen to your family over the holiday season.
NGUYEN: Absolutely. CNN law enforcement analyst Mike Brooks, thank you for that.
BROOKS: Thank you, Betty.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NGUYEN: Some good advice there.
All right, if getting there is half the fun, some commuters must be having a blast. We will tag along as one woman makes the two and a half hour trek to work with a big smile on her face.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Well, do you put up with an extra long commute? Do you commute so long that you have to eat Chinese food at your workstation like this poor person here? As a matter of fact, if you commute more than 90 minutes each way, 90 minutes, think of that, you're considered an extreme commuter. And you're extremely wasting a lot of time.
Alina Cho has our story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Well before the track of dawn...
SHELLY GIBLEN, EXTREME COMMUTER: The alarm goes off at 4 a.m.
CHO: ... Shelly Giblen is on her way to work. Giblen saves time in the car to the bus station by eating while she drives. Once she's parked, her commute is just beginning.
A 5 a.m. bus takes her to New York City, a two-hour ride.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eighty-third Street.
CHO: Then the final leg, a 20-minute walk to the office. Total commute time: two and a half hours one way.
GIBLEN: I think all of us who ride the bus need to have our heads examined at one point or another.
CHO: On average, Americans spend 25 minutes commuting one way, up three minutes since 1990.
Giblen is an extreme commuter, someone who spends more than 90 minutes getting to work for the chance to buy into the American dream. Shelly and Paul own a home in the Poconos, the only place in the area they can afford.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're basically trading the time in the morning and in the evening for mortgage.
CHO (on camera): Extreme commuters make up one of the fastest growing segments of commuters, according to census takers, and longer commute times often mean earlier start times, meaning more people abandoning the 9 to 5 workday.
GIBLEN: I am in my office before 7 a.m., and I cut out earlier than 4 p.m.
CHO: That way Giblen misses the early morning and afternoon rush.
Jimmy Nelson has been commuting two hours to New York City for seven years.
(on camera) Why do you do it? I mean, how do you do it?
JIMMY NELSON, EXTREME COMMUTER: Look at the price you pay to live in the city. It's too much. CHO (voice-over): But five hours a day commuting? Don't think Giblen hasn't had second thoughts.
GIBLEN: There are times that I walk past these apartment buildings and I go, "Gee, I wonder what the rent in one of these things is?"
CHO: Then she's on her way, walking, riding and driving. Another day, another extreme commute.
Alina Cho, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: President says he supports him, but what do Americans think? Should Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld stay or should he go? New poll numbers just moments away.
And diamonds are a girl's best friend, especially during the holidays. Ali Velshi on the bling that makes the season sing, after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: Few things last forever, but one of them may be the most successful marketing slogan of all times.
CNN's Ali Velshi explains.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's not just the diamonds that last forever. This slogan has been around since 1947. It's part of a campaign of memorable and effective one-liners, backed up by an expensive marketing approach that has at least some men saying, "I will."
(on camera) Two month's salary too much to pay for something that lasts forever?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. Not if you love the girl enough.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Money is not an object to me when I'm making someone feel good. And on top of that, something that lasts forever for something -- two months' salary? Hey, you're going to work until you die anyway.
VELSHI: Money can't buy endorsements like that, or can it? How about a couple of hundred million dollars a year paid for by the Diamond Trading Company. It's part of the legendary diamond giant De Beers.
KAREN BENEZRA, EDITOR, "BRANDWEEK": Fairly significant from the standpoint of spending $200 million a year worldwide. But compare that to McDonald's. Compare that -- a drop in the bucket. VELSHI: A drop in the bucket? More like Chinese water torture. That same message year after year after year, and it all started at the N.W. Ayer Building in Philadelphia. That was the ad company for De Beers.
Copy editor Francis Gerety worked late one night to come up with the perfect slogan for them.
LINDA KAPLAN THALER, AD EXECUTIVE: She could not come up with a line. She wanted it to be something bold and beautiful and something that go on for eternity like diamonds. And she fell asleep, and when she woke up, in her handwriting was the line, "A diamond is forever."
VELSHI: Linda Kaplan Thaler runs the ad company in New York that took over N.W. Ayer a few years ago. She says when you buy the diamond you buy the mystique.
THALER: You don't have one for rubies or sapphires or emeralds. And they're far more precious gems. They're rare. They're resilient. They're beautiful, but nobody says, "My god, I hope my husband gets me, you know, a ruby for Christmas."
VELSHI: And the mastery? Telling men exactly how much to spend on a diamond engagement ring.
The average American man ties the knot for the first time at the age of 27. The average 27-year-old American man makes about $37,000 a year. So if the average American guy need believes the ads, he needs to buy a $5,000 ring and he needs it to look good.
(on camera) And that's why any day, any time of year, you'll find men jamming the stalls of the diamond district here in Manhattan, looking for this, the perfect diamond.
This is a place, because of its bustle and congestion, thought to offer a better deal than the fancy boutiques. But in the end the message that the men get when they're here is the same: it's worth it. She's worth it. After all, forever is a long time.
(voice-over) Like the ad says, there are only two things that last longer than time: love is one of them, and guess what the other one is?
Ali Velshi, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: Geesh.
NGUYEN: All right, Miles, help me out here. Why is it that men can spend $30,000, $40,000, $50,000, even $100,000 on a car...
O'BRIEN: Me? You're talking about me?
NGUYEN: ... that's not going to last forever, but not on a diamond that could last forever? O'BRIEN: Oh, gee. No, the truth is, I think the whole thing is a racket. And they have men -- they have men convinced that if they plunk down this money, buy this rock, they're going to be, you know, out of the doghouse over.
NGUYEN: It's forever, Miles. Forever.
O'BRIEN: It's a racket, it doesn't work. Trust me. You've got to do other things forever, if you know what I mean.
NGUYEN: All righty, then.
O'BRIEN: Be kind and thoughtful and love your honey. And the rock is fine, but it's not to supplant that.
NGUYEN: Another excuse from another man. All right.
O'BRIEN: Those are words of wisdom from a man who's been there.
All right, Betty. It was a pleasure. Thanks for being there. And we'll see you in Atlanta coming up the rest of the week.
That wraps up this edition of LIVE FROM. And now to take us through the next hour of political headlines, I am honored to have Judy Woodruff standing beside me.
JUDY WOODRUFF, HOST, "INSIDE POLITICS": My goodness.
O'BRIEN: Yes.
WOODRUFF: We have you here in Washington.
O'BRIEN: It's great.
WOODRUFF: Welcome to Washington.
O'BRIEN: It's fun to be here. I was interviewing one of the fathers of the Internet today, Vincent Cerf. It was like geek heaven for me. It was great.
WOODRUFF: We can't wait to see it. We're going to see it when?
O'BRIEN: It's the CNN 25 special. So it will be rolling out a little later in January. So we'll keep you posted on that.
WOODRUFF: Come back any time.
O'BRIEN: All right.
WOODRUFF: We like having you visit.
O'BRIEN: It's a pleasure.
WOODRUFF: Thank you, Miles. Thank you, Betty, very much.
It is soon to be the end of an era, another kind of an era. Today on "INSIDE POLITICS," I'll talk with outgoing Senate minority leader Tom Daschle about his 26 years in Congress and what he plans on doing next.
Plus, seven weeks after election day the battle for Washington state's highest office still hangs in the balance. We'll have a live report from Seattle, where the election could actually be decided by a single digit margin.
"INSIDE POLITICS" begins in just a minute.
O'BRIEN: Excellent! Excellent work! Very, very nicely done.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired December 20, 2004 - 14:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: "Now in the News," later today Lisa Montgomery is scheduled to appear in court in Kansas City, Kansas, accused of killing Bobbie Jo Stinnett who was 8 months pregnant, then cutting the fetus from Stinnett's womb and masquerading as the baby's mother. The baby is hospitalized in good condition.
Not an enemy combatant. That's what the Pentagon is now saying about one prisoner being held at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Without providing details officials say a military review has determined the man was wrongly classified. he'll be released to his home country soon. It will be the second such release since the Supreme Court ruled Guantanamo prisoners can challenge their detentions.
The terrorists in Iraq will fail. Those words from President Bush today as he held a wide-ranging news conference. He insists Iraq will hold democratic elections on schedule at the end of next month. Though he acknowledges the process won't be trouble free
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: First this hour, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld in a show of support today from the man who counts most.
With more congressional flack coming Rumsfeld's way, chiefly over Iraq, President Bush has stepped in. At a news conference this morning, he praised the job Rumsfeld is doing and signaled he remains in good standing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When I asked the -- the secretary to stay on as secretary of defense, I was very pleased when he said yes. And I asked him to stay on because I understand the nature of the job of the secretary of defense. And I believe he's doing a really fine job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NGUYEN: Joining us now for more on the story, from the Pentagon, CNN's Kathleen Koch.
Hi, there, Kathleen.
KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Betty.
It was quite a vote of confidence for the embattled defense secretary. It's been a rough year for Donald Rumsfeld, who is, indeed, a very firm believer in the president's policy in Iraq.
Calls for Rumsfeld's resignation started back in the spring when the Abu Ghraib prison abuse scandal broke. More eventually lawmakers, disappointed in his handling of the war in Iraq, both Republican and Democrat, have said that they have lost confidence in the defense secretary.
And then there was Rumsfeld's response when questioned recently about the lack of armored vehicles in Iraq that some believe show that he is insensitive to the needs of the troops on the ground there. Still even some critics doubt that removing Rumsfeld would improve the situation in Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SPEC. THOMAS WILSON, U.S. ARMY: Now, why do we soldiers have to dig through local landfills for pieces of scrap metal and compromised ballistic glass to up armor our vehicles?
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: As you know, you go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want.
SEN. CARL LEVIN (D-MI), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: There's been a lot of mistakes, but the mistakes have been mainly policy mistakes on the part of the administration, going in as unilaterally as they did without the support of the world community through the United Nations, disbanding the Iraqi army, not having a plan for the aftermath, leaving out the top professional leaders in this country.
In planning for and aftermath, they made a lot of mistakes. They're unwilling to acknowledge any mistakes. But that's mainly the policies of this administration. And if I thought those policies would change by changing the secretary of defense, I'd be all for it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KOCH: Secretary Rumsfeld has also gotten some flack for having an automated signature machine sign his name on letters of condolence to families of those who have lost loved ones in Iraq. The secretary now says that he plans to sign those letters personally himself.
But it did, indeed, put the president -- the whole fact, in the unusual position today of not only having to defending his defense secretary's actions in Iraq but his character, saying that Rumsfeld underneath his, quote, "rough and gruff demeanor" is a good human being who cares deeply about the military -- Betty.
NGUYEN: CNN's Kathleen Koch at the Pentagon for us today. Thank you, Kathleen -- Miles.
MILES O'BRIEN, CO-HOST: Well, compared with the current military campaign, the previous war with Iraq was relatively quick and decisive, to say the least.
But a report out today provides another reminder that the '91 war in Kuwait still has costs of its own. The report says hundreds of oil well fires that were set by Iraqi troops in the waning days of the war pose potential health threats to U.S. combat veterans.
And joining me now to talk more about it is Steve Robinson. He is executive director of the National Gulf Resource Center right here in Washington.
Steve, good to have you with us.
STEVE ROBINSON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, NATIONAL GULF RESOURCE CENTER: My pleasure.
O'BRIEN: First of all, give us the background on this. You've had veterans complaining of serious health effects, Gulf War syndrome, all kinds of things since the Gulf War. This is the first time we've heard any mention or link, potentially, to lung cancer.
Are we just hearing about it now because of the latency period on the disease?
ROBINSON: Absolutely. I mean, we've been studying the effects of veterans' illnesses resulting from the first Gulf War. There's been a, basically, a revolution in the way that DOD and the Department of Veterans Affairs have understood that these are real illnesses.
The study by the IOM today looks at cancers in Gulf War veterans. And the reason why it has taken this long for it to come out is the latency period for cancers to develop. But we're really interested in all respiratory illnesses related to the war.
O'BRIEN: It's very difficult in the case of cancer to make a direct link and say this is what caused cancer. So what can -- what can Gulf veterans -- Gulf War veterans do to make that link with the V.A.?
ROBINSON: Yes, it is very interesting. The IOM concluded that -- they looked at all different types of exposures, not specifically Gulf War veterans' exposures.
What needs to happen now is that the IOM needs to do a large scale -- not the IOM but science needs to do a large-scale epidemiological study to look at the prevalence rates for cancer in Gulf War veterans. And if they are higher than the normal population, then we go to Congress with that information and ask for a presumptive service connection.
O'BRIEN: All right. Until that time, until you go through that whole process, there's a lot of sick people who need some treatment. What happens to them?
ROBINSON: There are programs in the Department of Veterans Affairs for those kinds of soldiers. There's the War Related Injury and Illness Studies Center. There's the V.A. medical centers. There's ongoing cancer registries that the V.A. is looking at.
Cancer is a big deal. Lung cancer is a really big deal. I'd encourage veterans -- a lot of times give up, and they don't go to these places. So if they're out there and they have developed these illnesses, we want them to go to the V.A. so we can capture the data, report it, and find out the statistical significance.
O'BRIEN: Now, you mention capturing the data, which brings us to the present day. Another conflict under way. Who knows what sorts of problems these veterans will face? Each group of veterans has its own unique problems.
Is that data collection underway? Is there enough attention being brought to bear on these kinds of long-term health issues?
ROBINSON: The Department of Defense is doing a better job at collecting data. There are environmental monitoring teams on the ground in Iraq, looking at, like, for example, depleted uranium and where it's being used, working next -- next to chemical facilities that are emitting different types of pollutants.
So they're doing a better job. And if they do a good job, we won't have this significant delay between illnesses that present themselves and trying to find the causative factor.
O'BRIEN: Let's talk big picture here as we close it out here. The fight over Gulf War Syndrome was an ugly fight because the Pentagon fought very long and hard to say it just ain't so. And ultimately, the veterans were -- prevailed in this case.
And you can look back in history, veterans who were exposed to atomic tests, whatever the case may be, the Pentagon has resisted its own people when they say, "Look, I'm sick and I think it has something to do with my service." Why is that?
ROBINSON: My -- my gut reaction is they want to kind of prevent these bad news stories from coming out immediately with significant impact. These stories play out over time. They start looking at certain things but don't really focus.
You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to look back over the last 50 years at Agent Orange, mustard gas tests, Gulf War veterans and some of the things we did to ourselves to know that they hurt people.
But science has prevailed. Science now says that these illnesses are real. The DOD and the V.A. have fallen in line. And we look forward to focused research.
O'BRIEN: All right. We do, too. Steve Robinson, thanks for dropping by. Appreciate it.
ROBINSON: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: Betty.
NGUYEN: And then there were four. Arson investigators now have a total of four men in custody in connection with the Maryland subdivision fire earlier this month. Forty-five homes were hit, causing an estimated $10 million in damage.
Earlier I spoke with CNN's law enforcement analyst, Mike Brooks, about the latest arrest and what might have motivated arson on this kind of scale.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NGUYEN: Well, let's put this in a time line, if we could, at least as much information we can. Put the pieces together.
We have Aaron Speed saying, "I'm not involved whatsoever." He fails a polygraph test, and then he says, "I'm a part of it." What kind of -- what -- how?
MIKE BROOKS, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, even before the polygraph, Betty, back on December 10 he was interviewed by law enforcement. And they were -- basically laid out a hypothetical situation.
In fact, reading right from the affidavit -- it's a very interesting case. And it says, "How would you do it?"
And he basically said, "Someone pouring an accelerant followed by someone lighting it."
They asked him what kind of -- how would he light it? He said with a torch. And he was very specific and said a hand-held propane torch. They found that kind of torch at the scene.
Then they get down into possible motive. They still don't know what the motive is. They said, "Who may have set the fire?"
And he said to them, quote, "Someone who works at the site and eventually experienced a great loss." Well, then investigators also cite in the affidavit that his son back in April of -- spring of 2004 had died. He felt that the security company he worked for did not treat him well. So they were looking -- they were looking at that as a possible motive.
But then when they gave him the polygraph on the 16th, he talked about -- he failed the polygraph and then he said that he was present when they were lit, along with some acquaintances.
And from that we go to the investigation with the -- with the Bureau of Alcohol and Tobacco and Firearms and Explosives and FBI finding these other three, one of which at the time he was arrested had on a T-shirt that had "AVFD" on it. That stands for Accokeek Volunteer Fire Department.
He was supposedly an observer. He had applied to be a firefighter but had not gotten full firefighter status as of yet.
NGUYEN: All right. So what is the connection between these three guys and Aaron Speed?
BROOKS: They're acquaintances of somehow. Now, talking to two sources or law enforcement sources close to the investigation today, I said, well, what -- you couldn't get into the specifics.
But he said, "Mike, if you're an investigator -- you're a former investigator." He said, "It's as if I called up someone and said, 'Hey, I want something. I want to do something.' And then he called a good friend of his and then that person knew someone else. That's how they all got together."
What they're working on right now is motive. Was it revenge? Was it excitement, you know? Was it someone who wanted to be a firefighter and couldn't be a firefighter and now they set a fire for excitement? Or was it for fraud? They don't know. They don't know the exact motive. They're looking into that. They hope to have that within the next couple of days.
NGUYEN: All right. In the meantime, we want to talk about another fire today. This one in D.C. Let's look at these dramatic pictures from this fire. Tell us how you know about how this was started.
BROOKS: Unbelievable fire. Unbelievable footage here, Betty. I just spoke with Alan Etter of the D.C. Fire Department. And this video was actually shot by CNN producer Vito Maggiola (ph), who on his own time is a firefighter with the D.C. -- a photographer.
Let's watch and listen for a second.
What this is -- these units, this was a row house in southeast D.C. When they first got there they encountered heavy, heavy fire. Engine eight, which is right around the corner from there, got on the scene. And this is what they were encountered with right at the front door.
Now hear the air horn? You heard the battalion chief tell everyone to, "Get out; get out." They're trying to make entry. D.C. Fire Department is an extremely aggressive firefighters. They try to make entry into the front door. You hear them with the air horn. That is a signal for everyone to evacuate the building.
The fire, they believe, started in the basement and worked its way up. By the time they had gotten there it was already out of control, but they try to make entry.
They -- one man, a 68-year-old man, had jumped from a second story window. He wound up dying. They found the bodies of a 32-year- old woman and her 11-year-old daughter inside the house.
NGUYEN: And part of this building or this house, this row house, actually collapsed. Why was this fire so hard to fight?
BROOKS: It started in the basement. Apparently, a very deep seated fire in the basement had gotten a head start on the firefighters before they got there. You see this thick smoke rolling out from the second floor.
It went up through the walls into the first floor, up into the attic. These kind of houses, I can tell you from experience, row houses in D.C., once it gets up into the walls, it gets to the attic. It gets very, very hard to fight.
You saw the heavy fire conditions they experienced when they arrived.
This has been an unusually heavy fire seasons around the country. I just spoke to Assistant Chief Tim Butters (ph), who's with the Fairfax City Fire Department. And he was saying --- talking about the number of multiple alarms that they've had just in Fairfax County over the last number of weeks.
And I just spoke with Chief Dennis Rubin of the Atlanta Fire Department, and they had a multiple alarm fire at a church here in Atlanta on Saturday. In fact, I was at the scene of that fire. And they actually have a working fire going on right now. They had fires over the night.
Just seems to be because of the cold weather.
NGUYEN: Exactly.
BROOKS: People have to be careful. As the temperature drops, people try to use alternate heat sources, space heaters, these kinds of things. You know, they set them too close to something that's flammable.
And with the Christmas season right now...
NGUYEN: Christmas lights.
BROOKS: ... Christmas trees, Christmas trees. And I just want to remind people that when they go to dispose of their fire -- their trees, don't try to put them in their fireplaces. I've seen fires where they've actually tried to feed them into the fireplaces.
NGUYEN: Bad idea.
BROOKS: Very, very bad idea.
So -- and also, ovens, smoking materials, please be careful. We don't want this to happen to your family over the holiday season.
NGUYEN: Absolutely. CNN law enforcement analyst Mike Brooks, thank you for that.
BROOKS: Thank you, Betty.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NGUYEN: Some good advice there.
All right, if getting there is half the fun, some commuters must be having a blast. We will tag along as one woman makes the two and a half hour trek to work with a big smile on her face.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Well, do you put up with an extra long commute? Do you commute so long that you have to eat Chinese food at your workstation like this poor person here? As a matter of fact, if you commute more than 90 minutes each way, 90 minutes, think of that, you're considered an extreme commuter. And you're extremely wasting a lot of time.
Alina Cho has our story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Well before the track of dawn...
SHELLY GIBLEN, EXTREME COMMUTER: The alarm goes off at 4 a.m.
CHO: ... Shelly Giblen is on her way to work. Giblen saves time in the car to the bus station by eating while she drives. Once she's parked, her commute is just beginning.
A 5 a.m. bus takes her to New York City, a two-hour ride.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eighty-third Street.
CHO: Then the final leg, a 20-minute walk to the office. Total commute time: two and a half hours one way.
GIBLEN: I think all of us who ride the bus need to have our heads examined at one point or another.
CHO: On average, Americans spend 25 minutes commuting one way, up three minutes since 1990.
Giblen is an extreme commuter, someone who spends more than 90 minutes getting to work for the chance to buy into the American dream. Shelly and Paul own a home in the Poconos, the only place in the area they can afford.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're basically trading the time in the morning and in the evening for mortgage.
CHO (on camera): Extreme commuters make up one of the fastest growing segments of commuters, according to census takers, and longer commute times often mean earlier start times, meaning more people abandoning the 9 to 5 workday.
GIBLEN: I am in my office before 7 a.m., and I cut out earlier than 4 p.m.
CHO: That way Giblen misses the early morning and afternoon rush.
Jimmy Nelson has been commuting two hours to New York City for seven years.
(on camera) Why do you do it? I mean, how do you do it?
JIMMY NELSON, EXTREME COMMUTER: Look at the price you pay to live in the city. It's too much. CHO (voice-over): But five hours a day commuting? Don't think Giblen hasn't had second thoughts.
GIBLEN: There are times that I walk past these apartment buildings and I go, "Gee, I wonder what the rent in one of these things is?"
CHO: Then she's on her way, walking, riding and driving. Another day, another extreme commute.
Alina Cho, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: President says he supports him, but what do Americans think? Should Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld stay or should he go? New poll numbers just moments away.
And diamonds are a girl's best friend, especially during the holidays. Ali Velshi on the bling that makes the season sing, after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: Few things last forever, but one of them may be the most successful marketing slogan of all times.
CNN's Ali Velshi explains.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's not just the diamonds that last forever. This slogan has been around since 1947. It's part of a campaign of memorable and effective one-liners, backed up by an expensive marketing approach that has at least some men saying, "I will."
(on camera) Two month's salary too much to pay for something that lasts forever?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. Not if you love the girl enough.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Money is not an object to me when I'm making someone feel good. And on top of that, something that lasts forever for something -- two months' salary? Hey, you're going to work until you die anyway.
VELSHI: Money can't buy endorsements like that, or can it? How about a couple of hundred million dollars a year paid for by the Diamond Trading Company. It's part of the legendary diamond giant De Beers.
KAREN BENEZRA, EDITOR, "BRANDWEEK": Fairly significant from the standpoint of spending $200 million a year worldwide. But compare that to McDonald's. Compare that -- a drop in the bucket. VELSHI: A drop in the bucket? More like Chinese water torture. That same message year after year after year, and it all started at the N.W. Ayer Building in Philadelphia. That was the ad company for De Beers.
Copy editor Francis Gerety worked late one night to come up with the perfect slogan for them.
LINDA KAPLAN THALER, AD EXECUTIVE: She could not come up with a line. She wanted it to be something bold and beautiful and something that go on for eternity like diamonds. And she fell asleep, and when she woke up, in her handwriting was the line, "A diamond is forever."
VELSHI: Linda Kaplan Thaler runs the ad company in New York that took over N.W. Ayer a few years ago. She says when you buy the diamond you buy the mystique.
THALER: You don't have one for rubies or sapphires or emeralds. And they're far more precious gems. They're rare. They're resilient. They're beautiful, but nobody says, "My god, I hope my husband gets me, you know, a ruby for Christmas."
VELSHI: And the mastery? Telling men exactly how much to spend on a diamond engagement ring.
The average American man ties the knot for the first time at the age of 27. The average 27-year-old American man makes about $37,000 a year. So if the average American guy need believes the ads, he needs to buy a $5,000 ring and he needs it to look good.
(on camera) And that's why any day, any time of year, you'll find men jamming the stalls of the diamond district here in Manhattan, looking for this, the perfect diamond.
This is a place, because of its bustle and congestion, thought to offer a better deal than the fancy boutiques. But in the end the message that the men get when they're here is the same: it's worth it. She's worth it. After all, forever is a long time.
(voice-over) Like the ad says, there are only two things that last longer than time: love is one of them, and guess what the other one is?
Ali Velshi, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: Geesh.
NGUYEN: All right, Miles, help me out here. Why is it that men can spend $30,000, $40,000, $50,000, even $100,000 on a car...
O'BRIEN: Me? You're talking about me?
NGUYEN: ... that's not going to last forever, but not on a diamond that could last forever? O'BRIEN: Oh, gee. No, the truth is, I think the whole thing is a racket. And they have men -- they have men convinced that if they plunk down this money, buy this rock, they're going to be, you know, out of the doghouse over.
NGUYEN: It's forever, Miles. Forever.
O'BRIEN: It's a racket, it doesn't work. Trust me. You've got to do other things forever, if you know what I mean.
NGUYEN: All righty, then.
O'BRIEN: Be kind and thoughtful and love your honey. And the rock is fine, but it's not to supplant that.
NGUYEN: Another excuse from another man. All right.
O'BRIEN: Those are words of wisdom from a man who's been there.
All right, Betty. It was a pleasure. Thanks for being there. And we'll see you in Atlanta coming up the rest of the week.
That wraps up this edition of LIVE FROM. And now to take us through the next hour of political headlines, I am honored to have Judy Woodruff standing beside me.
JUDY WOODRUFF, HOST, "INSIDE POLITICS": My goodness.
O'BRIEN: Yes.
WOODRUFF: We have you here in Washington.
O'BRIEN: It's great.
WOODRUFF: Welcome to Washington.
O'BRIEN: It's fun to be here. I was interviewing one of the fathers of the Internet today, Vincent Cerf. It was like geek heaven for me. It was great.
WOODRUFF: We can't wait to see it. We're going to see it when?
O'BRIEN: It's the CNN 25 special. So it will be rolling out a little later in January. So we'll keep you posted on that.
WOODRUFF: Come back any time.
O'BRIEN: All right.
WOODRUFF: We like having you visit.
O'BRIEN: It's a pleasure.
WOODRUFF: Thank you, Miles. Thank you, Betty, very much.
It is soon to be the end of an era, another kind of an era. Today on "INSIDE POLITICS," I'll talk with outgoing Senate minority leader Tom Daschle about his 26 years in Congress and what he plans on doing next.
Plus, seven weeks after election day the battle for Washington state's highest office still hangs in the balance. We'll have a live report from Seattle, where the election could actually be decided by a single digit margin.
"INSIDE POLITICS" begins in just a minute.
O'BRIEN: Excellent! Excellent work! Very, very nicely done.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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