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Last Great Mystery of Solar System; Can Americans Be Trusted to Make Their Own Health Care Decisions?; Bush Talks About Education; Party Planning for Inaugural; Pictures from Cassini
Aired January 14, 2005 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: We are getting some of those pictures in now.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Did you hear that big "Yee- haw"? I have a feeling that's because of the pictures.
And Miles has a little bit more on that.
That wasn't you, though, was it?
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: We're kind of having a hard time here. We're seeing them all looking and oogling at the picture and yet we have not seen it just yet. Let's listen into this for just a moment here. This is some of the European Space Agency officials here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... altitudes. The first one is from an altitude of 16 kilometers. It has about 20 meters per pixel or about 40 meters resolution in the frame. And I think it's pretty clear that you see things that look very much like drainage channels. Maybe not like drainage channels like on rivers on the Earth but perhaps stubby boxed canyons with seepage out of the walls, flowing down towards what looks very much like a shoreline.
We suspected there would be liquid on the surface of Titan. We suspected that we would see things that look like drainage channels and shorelines. We've never been able to see them look with this clarity.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These pictures were taken from what altitude?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This one was taken from an altitude of 16 kilometers, and it has a resolution, as I said, of about 40 meters per pixel.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, you've acquired how many pictures, or you have data for how many pictures already?
O'BRIEN: All right. Let's bring that down for just a minute. I want to bring in Carolyn Porco, who's watching this same image at the same time with us.
Carolyn, this is an emotional moment. I think you have -- tears have welled up a little there. CAROLYN PORCO, CASSINI-HUYGEN PROJECT: I -- I -- frankly, I cannot believe what I am seeing. This is just -- I just -- I really didn't think we'd have this kind of a view.
It's -- you know, they probably are having a hard time also seeing up from down by I always felt that perhaps the patterns would give the geology away. And it's clear to the principal investigator. I just heard him say it. It's clear to me as I look at it they're looking at drainage channels.
So that is, you know, the fingerprint of a fluid that has flown -- has flowed on the surface of Titan. It is just absolutely remarkable.
O'BRIEN: Carolyn...
PORCO: Not that we're seeing fluids, but we're seeing drainage channels.
O'BRIEN: I was just pointing out there. They cut away from the picture there. But I was pointing out those drainage channels there. Did you anticipate seeing what it boils down to rivers on Titan? Whether dry or not? Rivers on Titan?
PORCO: Well, of course, all the theoretical predictions from the Voyager images -- the Voyager data, not the images. Images taken by astronomers from the ground and then, of course, our own, the orbiter images as we've approached Titan and flown by it now closely three times, we see things that look tantalizing like meandering streams. In fact, I've even said that.
But you couldn't really be sure, because we didn't have the resolution that these folks are now having, which is about 20 meters. Our best resolution was about a kilometer.
And it's just -- I really have to say in all honesty, I'm just shocked. It's just remarkable. And it means we are really going to have a bird's eye view into this moon that has been a mystery now ever since it was discovered.
O'BRIEN: All right. So -- so Carolyn, let me clarify. This picture, on the right side you see a very darkened area. And on the left side you see what appear to be river channels. Is the darkened area, perhaps, a sea of methane or some such?
PORCO: Well, OK, so we have not seen any indication, any unambiguous indication that we're seeing fluids on the surface. But it -- that doesn't mean that there isn't -- the process that we've always imagined might create fluid on the surface.
We might see -- it might be a mud. It might be a fluid that's covered with, maybe, a mud-like material. So it doesn't necessarily have to be reflective for us still to have gotten it reasonably right about what's going on on Titan.
But there are river channels. That is the big message here. There are channels that are cut by something.
O'BRIEN: And those river channels...
PORCO: They're clearly...
O'BRIEN: It's quite clear -- and when you look at these, it's pretty hard not to say that has something to do with flowing liquid, right?
PORCO: Yes, because what else would create something like this? If it was a tectonic feature that was caused by a crack, it wouldn't look meandering. It would look sharp.
We see on Titan -- in fact, in our images, we do see rather angular, sharp features. Those might be tectonic, OK? When I say tectonic, I mean faults that, on Earth, give rise to earthquakes. Here, these are just meanderings. They had to be cut by something. A fluid of some sort is of course the best guess. And this is so -- it's so startling and, as far as I'm concerned here, unambiguous.
I just -- I didn't expect it was going to be this easy. I can't wait to see the other images, if they've got any.
O'BRIEN: Well, now, this one, would this be at the 150-kilometer altitude mark, probably, correct? Is that accurate to say, or do we know?
PORCO: No. No. No, in fact, what they've done is, they've shown us one of the images that is taken low in the atmosphere.
I heard the principal investigator, Martin Tomasko, say it was 16 kilometers above the surface. So he's thrown out his best right now. So -- and that's gorgeous. Oh, that is just gorgeous, gorgeous from 10 astronomical units away.
O'BRIEN: You have got to lead with your strong suit.
But let's not bury the lead here, as we're talking about leading with our strong suit. There was a lot of feeling going into this that you might see nothing more but closeups of more haze. And the fact that you're able to make out these features validates a mission that the idea began some 20 years ago.
PORCO: Oh, this mission has been like a fantasy come true.
You know, I've said landing on Titan is very much like something out of a Jules Verne story, a combination of "Journey to the Moon" and "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea" all at once, except it's real. We are doing this. We have just landed on an object that is very, very far away from us. Vast distances exist between us and Titan, and we are exploring it as we speak, so this is a great moment in -- not only for science but in the history of humankind.
O'BRIEN: Put yourself on the surface of Titan right now, based on what you see there. What would it be like to be there?
PORCO: Well, it would be just perhaps a little bit colder than where I'm standing now, in Darmstadt, Germany.
It's very cold there, about 300 degrees below zero Fahrenheit. It would be a dim -- even at noontime, it would be like deep-Earth twilight here on the Earth, because, after all, there's a thick, a very -- hundreds of kilometers worth of haze above you. You don't see any shadows. It's always an overcast day on Titan because of the haze, not clouds, but haze, kind of like a smog.
And it would be probably extremely unpleasant with all those hydrocarbons around. If there is liquids, I've said things like, imagine Lake Michigan brimming with paint thinner. Only, this looks like it's a dirty, gunged-up kind of paint thinner.
O'BRIEN: All right, Lake Michigan with paint thinner, we'll leave it at that for now. That's all they're going to release for the moment, I'm told. And these images will be trickling out all through the remainder of the afternoon into the evening and into the weekend.
Carolyn, you stay put because you do a very nice job walking us through what it's like to be there and giving us a sense of what is going on in this very distant, remote, very strange world in our solar system. Perhaps the last great mystery of our solar system may be no longer, Betty.
NGUYEN: And an emotional day for those watching. They've waited so long for this. All right, thank you, Miles. We'll be checking in with you just a little bit later.
WHITFIELD: And it's what you call the ultimate tease, just allowing us to see a few little pictures, a little bit at a time throughout the weekend.
(CROSSTALK)
NGUYEN: And we'll be showing them to you as soon as we can get them, of course.
We want to welcome you back to our last half-hour of LIVE FROM. I'm Betty Nguyen.
WHITFIELD: And I'm Fredricka Whitfield.
A top story we're following for you this hour, we're waiting for a recommendation, any time now, on whether you should be able to buy a popular cholesterol-lowering drug without a prescription. The issue raises the question, how much can Americans be trusted to make their own health care decisions?
CNN medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joins me now.
And what's the perhaps worst-case scenario if Americans are entrusted to make that kind of decision on their own?
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right.
The worst-case scenario, according to some people, some doctors we've talked to who are concerned about this is that if over-the -- if cholesterol-lowering drugs were to go over the counter, someone is just sort of doing their weekly shopping and then they see a bottle of cholesterol-lowering drugs and say, gee, I think I'll take that. Maybe I have high cholesterol. I don't know. Why not take it? Maybe it will help me. And that person ends up getting sick from the drugs or maybe that person really does have cholesterol, but still could end up getting sick.
These drugs have some unusual -- in other words, they're not very common. They don't happen a lot, but sometimes people get sick. They can get liver damage, kidney damage. There can be horrible muscle problems as a result. And so, if people were to take these and not follow up with their doctor, that could happen. Also, if a pregnant woman were to take this or maybe a woman who's pregnant and doesn't even know it, that can be a real problem for the fetus.
WHITFIELD: So we started with the worst. Now how about the best-case scenario?
COHEN: The best-case scenario is someone who is doing what they're supposed to do. They go to their doctor. They get diagnosed with high cholesterol and they go back to the doctor for periodic visits to have their liver functions measured and have other things checked out to make sure they're not having any of these bad side effects.
And they then get to buy this drug over the counter. It may be cheaper and it's just simply easier. It's easier to just walk in and buy something over the counter than to actually have to go to the pharmacy. Sometimes, you can only get one month at a time, which can be a pain in the neck.
So, for someone who is doing it as they should, seeing their doctor as they should and actually really does have high cholesterol, that's a good-case scenario.
WHITFIELD: Now, cost is another criteria that the FDA has got to consider when trying to figure out the best decision. So, what is at stake here?
COHEN: Well, cost gets very complicated, because people in America pay for their prescription drugs in different ways.
Let's say you're someone who has excellent prescription drug coverage on their insurance. Well, right now, if you're taking Mevacor, you're probably not paying very much for it. Your insurance is. Now, if it were to go over the counter, you would really stand to lose, because your insurance company could say, hey, why don't you pay for it? It's over the counter. We don't want to pay for it anymore.
However, let's say that your insurance doesn't pay for prescription drugs or you don't have any kind of insurance and you're paying for Mevacor out of your own pocket. Well, if it went over the counter, it would be cheaper. To get a month's worth of Mevacor just out of your own pocket would be $70. To get it over the counter, if it went over the counter -- we don't know that yet. If it went over the counter, it would only be about $30. So, you would stand to save money.
WHITFIELD: All right. We'll be waiting to see what the FDA decides on. Thanks so much, Elizabeth.
NGUYEN: Well, the rain has stopped, but the water is still rising in Ohio. It's all runoff from rivers and streams that are filled to overflowing.
Now, for the fourth time in a year, thousands of people are being flooded out of their homes, but it's turning colder, which officials say will help to slow down that runoff.
Now to the South, a day of cleaning up after a stormy night. The National Weather Service has confirmed it was a powerful F-3 twister that left all this destruction that you see here in southern Arkansas. It also killed two people.
On Hawaii's Big Island, a rather odd scene -- check it out -- as surfboards become snowboards. Two dormant volcanoes which rise 13,000 feet are now covered in snow. Can you believe it?
All right, we want to keep on this weather story and talk about hundreds of homes that have been evacuated east of Los Angeles, where a dam has sprung a leak and a flash flood watch is in effect down stream. The evacuation happened this morning in an area soaked by days of rain.
We have reporter Craig Fiegener there at the scene in Corona, California. And he joins us with a live update with CNN affiliate KCAL.
What do you see out there right now? What's the situation?
CRAIG FIEGENER, KCAL REPORTER: Well, just behind me, this is the Prado Dam. This dam is providing flood control for Orange County.
As you look at it right now, it doesn't appear as though there is anything wrong. But there has been a flurry of activity here today, as workers from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers try to take care of some seepage at the base of the dam.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FIEGENER (voice-over): This is Prodo Dam. It provides flood control for Orange County. For several days, it's been taking on more storm runoff than it can handle. And this morning, people who live down from the dam were told to leave.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have some information that there's a leak in the dam, so there's about 850 homes down there at base and just west of the dam that -- that's a concern.
FIEGENER: The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers says a private contractor is working to stop minor seepage at the base of the dam. They say the risk of a large catastrophe is very small and that the evacuations are merely a precaution. People have packed up their cars and trucks and many of them simply don't know what to think.
DEBBIE SILVERN, CORONA RESIDENT: This has never happened before and I have friends in a complex that have been here from day one and it's never happened before.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can see where, you know, parts of it are -- where the water is coming over. The dirt slid down and stuff, but I don't know. It's -- I have no idea if it's going to break or not.
FIEGENER: It was clear there were problems at the dam earlier this week. It swelled with rain water, backing up and flooding half of the Corona Airport. Now, from across the 91 Freeway, people are stopping just to look. An otherwise unremarkable landmark is getting a lot of attention.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FIEGENER: Back live in Southern California. The Santa Ana River is quite the landmark. This is what flows into the Santa Ana River, runoff from the Prodo Dam here in Riverside County.
You are looking at 74,818 gallons of water each second. That's 10,000 cubic feet per second, roughly three average sized swimming pools. That runoff, at least a few days ago, was less than what was coming into the dam. But the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers says they've stabilized what's coming into the dam and are actually letting more water out right now.
Later today, we're expecting an update on when the people who have left their homes might be able to go back.
I'm Craig Fiegener reporting live for CNN -- back to you.
NGUYEN: All right, Craig, thank you so much. Of course, those families want to get back home as soon as possible -- Fred.
WHITFIELD: And we'll go live to Fort Hood, Texas, where a jury deliberates the guilt or innocence of the man accused of being the ringleader in the Abu Ghraib prison abuse scandal.
Also ahead, wealth, power and access, the three buzz words in Washington leading up to the presidential inauguration.
And you'll remember this Titan. A probe sent to Saturn's moons sends back some never-before-seen pictures. Our Miles O'Brien is on that right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: This just in. We have an update on Elizabeth Cohen's story on allowing cholesterol-lowering drugs to be sold over the counter. Federal advisers have recommended against allowing over-the- counter use of cholesterol drugs like Mevacor. So, again, the debate is over. According to federal advisers, they are recommending against it. We, of course, will stay on top of the story and bring you the latest -- Fred. WHITFIELD: Another story we continue to keep a close watch on for you. A soldier out of control or just following orders? A military jury is considering just that as it deliberates the fate of Army Specialist Charles Graner. He's accused of abusing Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib.
CNN's Susan Candiotti joins us from Fort Hood, Texas -- Susan.
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Fredricka.
Yes, the jury has been considering Specialist Charles Graner's guilt or innocence for more than 2 1/2 hours now. Specialist Graner appeared confident as he walked into court this day. His parents have been with him all along. Graner told us that he is not disappointed that he did not take the stand and testify in his own behalf, even though his attorney did tell the jury that they would hear from him during opening statements.
However, he -- the jury has been told that they cannot hold that against Specialist Graner. Now, here's a look at five charges that he faces. There are two specifications, as they're called, in the court- martial, or counts, of conspiracy to abuse prisoners, one specification of dereliction of duty, four counts of a charge of maltreatment of prisoners, two counts of aggravated assault, and one specification of committing an indecent act.
Now, during closing arguments this day, Graner's parents sat in court and held hands as they sat behind him. He insisted that -- through his attorney that he was simply following orders, orders that he considered to be legal, and the Army is simply trying to make him a scapegoat.
Prosecutors called that hogwash, said that what happened here was pure and simple abuse and nothing else than that. they told the jury -- quote -- "He," Graner, "does not have the final word on abuse at Abu Ghraib. You do. And it will speak volumes to the Army, volumes to the country, volumes to the world."
The defense countered by using a quote from a report that Graner received in Abu Ghraib for his work with, they said, military intelligence. And the quote was, "You are doing a fine job." The attorney asked, is that a counselor telling him to stop? Well, again, it will be up to the jury to decide one way or the other Specialist Graner's fate. If he is found guilty, he faces more than 17 years in a military prison -- back to you.
WHITFIELD: Susan Candiotti at Fort Hood, Texas, thanks so much -- Betty.
NGUYEN: The countdown to the presidential inauguration is on. And the nation's capital is rolling out the red carpet for the ultimate power party. We will take you behind the scenes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: Well, President Bush went on the road to Florida today to talk about education and how to pay for it.
WHITFIELD: His brother Florida Governor Jeb Bush introduced the president at a community college in Jacksonville. Mr. Bush said he would urge Congress to raise the limit on Pell Grant awards by $500 over the next five years.
NGUYEN: Now, that would put the maximum grant at $4,550 by 2010. The grants are awarded to low-income students to help pay for college.
Back in Washington, party planning is in full swing for the president's inauguration on Thursday.
WHITFIELD: And if you have very deep pockets, you could be knee- deep in luxury.
Our Julie Vallese has a look at some of the pricier hotel packages.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JULIE VALLESE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Every presidential inauguration brings out the white tablecloth crowd. But when it's an inauguration for a Texan, it brings out snakeskin boots, cowboy hats and homemade vodka from the Lone Star State.
DARRELL SHEAFFER, GENERAL MANAGER, MANDARIN ORIENTAL: This particular week is all about access. It is all about power.
VALLESE: Hotels in the nation's capital in January are usually about half full, but during the week of inauguration, that goes up to 85 percent. While most hotel rooms will cost about $300, same as always, some are offering a once-in-a-lifetime experience with a price tag to match.
SHEAFFER: What makes the room special, again, is the views.
VALLESE: Along with that view, the Mandarin Oriental hotel was offering a four-night package complete with a private jet, 3,500- square-foot suite and designer duds, all for the taking of just over $200,000. But there were no takers. The suite was booked without all the perks for $8,000 a night.
The four-night presidential package at the Ritz Carlton will run $150,000, complete with a new set of luggage packed by a personal butler and a champagne and caviar reception for 25 of your closest friends.
PAUL WESTBROOK, VICE PRESIDENT, RITZ CARLTON: Inauguration happens only every four years, and it's our Super Bowl. It's our Emmys. And it's our chance to shine, really where excess is OK.
VALLESE: At those prices, the Sofitel's don't-mess-with-Texas package may seem like a bargain at $75,000. Its perks, alligator boots, Rolex watches and eight four-piece place settings of official White House china. (on camera): Now, for those who don't have thousands to spend, the Black Tie and Boots Ball is one of the hottest tickets in town. Tickets are still available and cost around $650. As for the swearing-in ceremony and the inaugural parade, those tickets are free. And tickets are available through your local congressional office.
In Washington, I'm Julie Vallese.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NGUYEN: Speaking of tickets, we are getting a ticket to see what Titan looks like.
WHITFIELD: Yes. Let's check in with Miles O'Brien. He's been getting some beautiful pictures.
(CROSSTALK)
O'BRIEN: Yes, actually, beautiful picture.
NGUYEN: Oh, yes, that's true, one picture that we'll look at over and over again.
O'BRIEN: We should point out, this is -- we have hit upon a philosophical difference between NASA and the European Space Agency.
As you all know, when NASA hits a home run on Mars, they just start streaming out those pictures and they come in. As they come in, they release them. Now, the Europeans have a little different theory on that. They like to kind of keep things close to the vest, massage it a little bit, and parcel it out.
Of course, it is self-serving to say so, but I always think it's nice to share. Nevertheless, these pictures -- this picture, I should say, is a stunning one.
And Carolyn Porco is with us from Darmstadt, Germany. And a moment ago, it literally brought tears to her eyes. She's been working on this product for a long time. She works on the Cassini side of things. This is the Cassini-Huygens project. So, she has no direct duties there today, except to watch as a very interested observer.
And, Carolyn, based on what you have seen, well, first of all, let's talk about this issue. Why are they so slow to release these images, unlike what we see at your home shop?
PORCO: Well, to be a little bit fair to them, you know, oftentimes, images can be hard to interpret if they're raw images. I don't know what the quality of their images is before they process them.
So, maybe it's kind of like they don't want to show dirty laundry. They just want to process the images, pick -- choose the ones that are the most dramatic or the ones that are easiest to interpret, the ones that have a message right away, so they don't have to be waffling about what it means. And that may be part of why they're slow to release. But you're right. There probably is a different philosophy, too.
O'BRIEN: Yes, well, all right. And I'm not trying to be too harshly critical. We're just talking about a philosophical difference. And we can all agree that everybody has different ways of doing things.
But I have got to give JPL credit for hanging out the dirty laundry, let us all decide what we like, what we don't like.
I'm going to show an image which is on your Web site which shows kind of the conical -- oh, we just lost her, my goodness gracious.
Carolyn Porco, what are we going to do with without her?
All right, let's look at the image one more time. We'll talk about it for just a few moments. That's her image. And she was going to make some comments about how that relates to what we've seen here.
But just to recap for both of you, Betty and Fred, what we're seeing here -- I guess you don't have to be a rocket scientist on this one. These are what appear to be river channels. Is it actively flowing with liquid methane or ethane, as Carolyn Porco put it just a few moments ago? Could this out here be a giant lake filled with turpentine or paint thinner? Imagine that.
As I've said earlier today, there is no question that Titan is a nonsmoking moon. And the question is, what is the consistency of this particular area? And one thing we don't know for certain yet -- they haven't told us -- is, where, in fact, did it land? And is it bobbing in this methane ocean or is it sitting on the banks of one of these methane riverbanks?
What Carolyn will do, if we could bring her image off of the Web for just a second, she is going to compare these images, which is predicting kind of the cone and the direction that the Huygens probe is. That yellow dot in the middle is it. And she's going to try to match these features with what we've seen there.
Now, as a layperson, I have no way of connecting these two images. And without her on the satellite, I can't go much further with that. But, nevertheless, when we get a chance, we'll do that -- Betty and Fred.
WHITFIELD: Oh, well. Well, it was good while it lasted.
NGUYEN: Yes.
O'BRIEN: It was.
WHITFIELD: Well, we got a little bit of perspective from her.
O'BRIEN: Yes.
(CROSSTALK) WHITFIELD: And that really did kind of paint the picture, because we only have that one picture, Miles.
NGUYEN: That one, yes.
WHITFIELD: But it was great anyway, nonetheless. We'll get to see more of it throughout the weekend.
NGUYEN: Absolutely. And it's almost as it raises more questions than it does answers. But, of course, as they continue to investigate those pictures, we can learn much more.
WHITFIELD: Yes. All right.
O'BRIEN: Absolutely.
WHITFIELD: Well, that's going to do it for us with this edition of LIVE FROM.
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Aired January 14, 2005 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: We are getting some of those pictures in now.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Did you hear that big "Yee- haw"? I have a feeling that's because of the pictures.
And Miles has a little bit more on that.
That wasn't you, though, was it?
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: We're kind of having a hard time here. We're seeing them all looking and oogling at the picture and yet we have not seen it just yet. Let's listen into this for just a moment here. This is some of the European Space Agency officials here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... altitudes. The first one is from an altitude of 16 kilometers. It has about 20 meters per pixel or about 40 meters resolution in the frame. And I think it's pretty clear that you see things that look very much like drainage channels. Maybe not like drainage channels like on rivers on the Earth but perhaps stubby boxed canyons with seepage out of the walls, flowing down towards what looks very much like a shoreline.
We suspected there would be liquid on the surface of Titan. We suspected that we would see things that look like drainage channels and shorelines. We've never been able to see them look with this clarity.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These pictures were taken from what altitude?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This one was taken from an altitude of 16 kilometers, and it has a resolution, as I said, of about 40 meters per pixel.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, you've acquired how many pictures, or you have data for how many pictures already?
O'BRIEN: All right. Let's bring that down for just a minute. I want to bring in Carolyn Porco, who's watching this same image at the same time with us.
Carolyn, this is an emotional moment. I think you have -- tears have welled up a little there. CAROLYN PORCO, CASSINI-HUYGEN PROJECT: I -- I -- frankly, I cannot believe what I am seeing. This is just -- I just -- I really didn't think we'd have this kind of a view.
It's -- you know, they probably are having a hard time also seeing up from down by I always felt that perhaps the patterns would give the geology away. And it's clear to the principal investigator. I just heard him say it. It's clear to me as I look at it they're looking at drainage channels.
So that is, you know, the fingerprint of a fluid that has flown -- has flowed on the surface of Titan. It is just absolutely remarkable.
O'BRIEN: Carolyn...
PORCO: Not that we're seeing fluids, but we're seeing drainage channels.
O'BRIEN: I was just pointing out there. They cut away from the picture there. But I was pointing out those drainage channels there. Did you anticipate seeing what it boils down to rivers on Titan? Whether dry or not? Rivers on Titan?
PORCO: Well, of course, all the theoretical predictions from the Voyager images -- the Voyager data, not the images. Images taken by astronomers from the ground and then, of course, our own, the orbiter images as we've approached Titan and flown by it now closely three times, we see things that look tantalizing like meandering streams. In fact, I've even said that.
But you couldn't really be sure, because we didn't have the resolution that these folks are now having, which is about 20 meters. Our best resolution was about a kilometer.
And it's just -- I really have to say in all honesty, I'm just shocked. It's just remarkable. And it means we are really going to have a bird's eye view into this moon that has been a mystery now ever since it was discovered.
O'BRIEN: All right. So -- so Carolyn, let me clarify. This picture, on the right side you see a very darkened area. And on the left side you see what appear to be river channels. Is the darkened area, perhaps, a sea of methane or some such?
PORCO: Well, OK, so we have not seen any indication, any unambiguous indication that we're seeing fluids on the surface. But it -- that doesn't mean that there isn't -- the process that we've always imagined might create fluid on the surface.
We might see -- it might be a mud. It might be a fluid that's covered with, maybe, a mud-like material. So it doesn't necessarily have to be reflective for us still to have gotten it reasonably right about what's going on on Titan.
But there are river channels. That is the big message here. There are channels that are cut by something.
O'BRIEN: And those river channels...
PORCO: They're clearly...
O'BRIEN: It's quite clear -- and when you look at these, it's pretty hard not to say that has something to do with flowing liquid, right?
PORCO: Yes, because what else would create something like this? If it was a tectonic feature that was caused by a crack, it wouldn't look meandering. It would look sharp.
We see on Titan -- in fact, in our images, we do see rather angular, sharp features. Those might be tectonic, OK? When I say tectonic, I mean faults that, on Earth, give rise to earthquakes. Here, these are just meanderings. They had to be cut by something. A fluid of some sort is of course the best guess. And this is so -- it's so startling and, as far as I'm concerned here, unambiguous.
I just -- I didn't expect it was going to be this easy. I can't wait to see the other images, if they've got any.
O'BRIEN: Well, now, this one, would this be at the 150-kilometer altitude mark, probably, correct? Is that accurate to say, or do we know?
PORCO: No. No. No, in fact, what they've done is, they've shown us one of the images that is taken low in the atmosphere.
I heard the principal investigator, Martin Tomasko, say it was 16 kilometers above the surface. So he's thrown out his best right now. So -- and that's gorgeous. Oh, that is just gorgeous, gorgeous from 10 astronomical units away.
O'BRIEN: You have got to lead with your strong suit.
But let's not bury the lead here, as we're talking about leading with our strong suit. There was a lot of feeling going into this that you might see nothing more but closeups of more haze. And the fact that you're able to make out these features validates a mission that the idea began some 20 years ago.
PORCO: Oh, this mission has been like a fantasy come true.
You know, I've said landing on Titan is very much like something out of a Jules Verne story, a combination of "Journey to the Moon" and "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea" all at once, except it's real. We are doing this. We have just landed on an object that is very, very far away from us. Vast distances exist between us and Titan, and we are exploring it as we speak, so this is a great moment in -- not only for science but in the history of humankind.
O'BRIEN: Put yourself on the surface of Titan right now, based on what you see there. What would it be like to be there?
PORCO: Well, it would be just perhaps a little bit colder than where I'm standing now, in Darmstadt, Germany.
It's very cold there, about 300 degrees below zero Fahrenheit. It would be a dim -- even at noontime, it would be like deep-Earth twilight here on the Earth, because, after all, there's a thick, a very -- hundreds of kilometers worth of haze above you. You don't see any shadows. It's always an overcast day on Titan because of the haze, not clouds, but haze, kind of like a smog.
And it would be probably extremely unpleasant with all those hydrocarbons around. If there is liquids, I've said things like, imagine Lake Michigan brimming with paint thinner. Only, this looks like it's a dirty, gunged-up kind of paint thinner.
O'BRIEN: All right, Lake Michigan with paint thinner, we'll leave it at that for now. That's all they're going to release for the moment, I'm told. And these images will be trickling out all through the remainder of the afternoon into the evening and into the weekend.
Carolyn, you stay put because you do a very nice job walking us through what it's like to be there and giving us a sense of what is going on in this very distant, remote, very strange world in our solar system. Perhaps the last great mystery of our solar system may be no longer, Betty.
NGUYEN: And an emotional day for those watching. They've waited so long for this. All right, thank you, Miles. We'll be checking in with you just a little bit later.
WHITFIELD: And it's what you call the ultimate tease, just allowing us to see a few little pictures, a little bit at a time throughout the weekend.
(CROSSTALK)
NGUYEN: And we'll be showing them to you as soon as we can get them, of course.
We want to welcome you back to our last half-hour of LIVE FROM. I'm Betty Nguyen.
WHITFIELD: And I'm Fredricka Whitfield.
A top story we're following for you this hour, we're waiting for a recommendation, any time now, on whether you should be able to buy a popular cholesterol-lowering drug without a prescription. The issue raises the question, how much can Americans be trusted to make their own health care decisions?
CNN medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joins me now.
And what's the perhaps worst-case scenario if Americans are entrusted to make that kind of decision on their own?
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right.
The worst-case scenario, according to some people, some doctors we've talked to who are concerned about this is that if over-the -- if cholesterol-lowering drugs were to go over the counter, someone is just sort of doing their weekly shopping and then they see a bottle of cholesterol-lowering drugs and say, gee, I think I'll take that. Maybe I have high cholesterol. I don't know. Why not take it? Maybe it will help me. And that person ends up getting sick from the drugs or maybe that person really does have cholesterol, but still could end up getting sick.
These drugs have some unusual -- in other words, they're not very common. They don't happen a lot, but sometimes people get sick. They can get liver damage, kidney damage. There can be horrible muscle problems as a result. And so, if people were to take these and not follow up with their doctor, that could happen. Also, if a pregnant woman were to take this or maybe a woman who's pregnant and doesn't even know it, that can be a real problem for the fetus.
WHITFIELD: So we started with the worst. Now how about the best-case scenario?
COHEN: The best-case scenario is someone who is doing what they're supposed to do. They go to their doctor. They get diagnosed with high cholesterol and they go back to the doctor for periodic visits to have their liver functions measured and have other things checked out to make sure they're not having any of these bad side effects.
And they then get to buy this drug over the counter. It may be cheaper and it's just simply easier. It's easier to just walk in and buy something over the counter than to actually have to go to the pharmacy. Sometimes, you can only get one month at a time, which can be a pain in the neck.
So, for someone who is doing it as they should, seeing their doctor as they should and actually really does have high cholesterol, that's a good-case scenario.
WHITFIELD: Now, cost is another criteria that the FDA has got to consider when trying to figure out the best decision. So, what is at stake here?
COHEN: Well, cost gets very complicated, because people in America pay for their prescription drugs in different ways.
Let's say you're someone who has excellent prescription drug coverage on their insurance. Well, right now, if you're taking Mevacor, you're probably not paying very much for it. Your insurance is. Now, if it were to go over the counter, you would really stand to lose, because your insurance company could say, hey, why don't you pay for it? It's over the counter. We don't want to pay for it anymore.
However, let's say that your insurance doesn't pay for prescription drugs or you don't have any kind of insurance and you're paying for Mevacor out of your own pocket. Well, if it went over the counter, it would be cheaper. To get a month's worth of Mevacor just out of your own pocket would be $70. To get it over the counter, if it went over the counter -- we don't know that yet. If it went over the counter, it would only be about $30. So, you would stand to save money.
WHITFIELD: All right. We'll be waiting to see what the FDA decides on. Thanks so much, Elizabeth.
NGUYEN: Well, the rain has stopped, but the water is still rising in Ohio. It's all runoff from rivers and streams that are filled to overflowing.
Now, for the fourth time in a year, thousands of people are being flooded out of their homes, but it's turning colder, which officials say will help to slow down that runoff.
Now to the South, a day of cleaning up after a stormy night. The National Weather Service has confirmed it was a powerful F-3 twister that left all this destruction that you see here in southern Arkansas. It also killed two people.
On Hawaii's Big Island, a rather odd scene -- check it out -- as surfboards become snowboards. Two dormant volcanoes which rise 13,000 feet are now covered in snow. Can you believe it?
All right, we want to keep on this weather story and talk about hundreds of homes that have been evacuated east of Los Angeles, where a dam has sprung a leak and a flash flood watch is in effect down stream. The evacuation happened this morning in an area soaked by days of rain.
We have reporter Craig Fiegener there at the scene in Corona, California. And he joins us with a live update with CNN affiliate KCAL.
What do you see out there right now? What's the situation?
CRAIG FIEGENER, KCAL REPORTER: Well, just behind me, this is the Prado Dam. This dam is providing flood control for Orange County.
As you look at it right now, it doesn't appear as though there is anything wrong. But there has been a flurry of activity here today, as workers from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers try to take care of some seepage at the base of the dam.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FIEGENER (voice-over): This is Prodo Dam. It provides flood control for Orange County. For several days, it's been taking on more storm runoff than it can handle. And this morning, people who live down from the dam were told to leave.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have some information that there's a leak in the dam, so there's about 850 homes down there at base and just west of the dam that -- that's a concern.
FIEGENER: The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers says a private contractor is working to stop minor seepage at the base of the dam. They say the risk of a large catastrophe is very small and that the evacuations are merely a precaution. People have packed up their cars and trucks and many of them simply don't know what to think.
DEBBIE SILVERN, CORONA RESIDENT: This has never happened before and I have friends in a complex that have been here from day one and it's never happened before.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can see where, you know, parts of it are -- where the water is coming over. The dirt slid down and stuff, but I don't know. It's -- I have no idea if it's going to break or not.
FIEGENER: It was clear there were problems at the dam earlier this week. It swelled with rain water, backing up and flooding half of the Corona Airport. Now, from across the 91 Freeway, people are stopping just to look. An otherwise unremarkable landmark is getting a lot of attention.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FIEGENER: Back live in Southern California. The Santa Ana River is quite the landmark. This is what flows into the Santa Ana River, runoff from the Prodo Dam here in Riverside County.
You are looking at 74,818 gallons of water each second. That's 10,000 cubic feet per second, roughly three average sized swimming pools. That runoff, at least a few days ago, was less than what was coming into the dam. But the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers says they've stabilized what's coming into the dam and are actually letting more water out right now.
Later today, we're expecting an update on when the people who have left their homes might be able to go back.
I'm Craig Fiegener reporting live for CNN -- back to you.
NGUYEN: All right, Craig, thank you so much. Of course, those families want to get back home as soon as possible -- Fred.
WHITFIELD: And we'll go live to Fort Hood, Texas, where a jury deliberates the guilt or innocence of the man accused of being the ringleader in the Abu Ghraib prison abuse scandal.
Also ahead, wealth, power and access, the three buzz words in Washington leading up to the presidential inauguration.
And you'll remember this Titan. A probe sent to Saturn's moons sends back some never-before-seen pictures. Our Miles O'Brien is on that right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: This just in. We have an update on Elizabeth Cohen's story on allowing cholesterol-lowering drugs to be sold over the counter. Federal advisers have recommended against allowing over-the- counter use of cholesterol drugs like Mevacor. So, again, the debate is over. According to federal advisers, they are recommending against it. We, of course, will stay on top of the story and bring you the latest -- Fred. WHITFIELD: Another story we continue to keep a close watch on for you. A soldier out of control or just following orders? A military jury is considering just that as it deliberates the fate of Army Specialist Charles Graner. He's accused of abusing Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib.
CNN's Susan Candiotti joins us from Fort Hood, Texas -- Susan.
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Fredricka.
Yes, the jury has been considering Specialist Charles Graner's guilt or innocence for more than 2 1/2 hours now. Specialist Graner appeared confident as he walked into court this day. His parents have been with him all along. Graner told us that he is not disappointed that he did not take the stand and testify in his own behalf, even though his attorney did tell the jury that they would hear from him during opening statements.
However, he -- the jury has been told that they cannot hold that against Specialist Graner. Now, here's a look at five charges that he faces. There are two specifications, as they're called, in the court- martial, or counts, of conspiracy to abuse prisoners, one specification of dereliction of duty, four counts of a charge of maltreatment of prisoners, two counts of aggravated assault, and one specification of committing an indecent act.
Now, during closing arguments this day, Graner's parents sat in court and held hands as they sat behind him. He insisted that -- through his attorney that he was simply following orders, orders that he considered to be legal, and the Army is simply trying to make him a scapegoat.
Prosecutors called that hogwash, said that what happened here was pure and simple abuse and nothing else than that. they told the jury -- quote -- "He," Graner, "does not have the final word on abuse at Abu Ghraib. You do. And it will speak volumes to the Army, volumes to the country, volumes to the world."
The defense countered by using a quote from a report that Graner received in Abu Ghraib for his work with, they said, military intelligence. And the quote was, "You are doing a fine job." The attorney asked, is that a counselor telling him to stop? Well, again, it will be up to the jury to decide one way or the other Specialist Graner's fate. If he is found guilty, he faces more than 17 years in a military prison -- back to you.
WHITFIELD: Susan Candiotti at Fort Hood, Texas, thanks so much -- Betty.
NGUYEN: The countdown to the presidential inauguration is on. And the nation's capital is rolling out the red carpet for the ultimate power party. We will take you behind the scenes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: Well, President Bush went on the road to Florida today to talk about education and how to pay for it.
WHITFIELD: His brother Florida Governor Jeb Bush introduced the president at a community college in Jacksonville. Mr. Bush said he would urge Congress to raise the limit on Pell Grant awards by $500 over the next five years.
NGUYEN: Now, that would put the maximum grant at $4,550 by 2010. The grants are awarded to low-income students to help pay for college.
Back in Washington, party planning is in full swing for the president's inauguration on Thursday.
WHITFIELD: And if you have very deep pockets, you could be knee- deep in luxury.
Our Julie Vallese has a look at some of the pricier hotel packages.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JULIE VALLESE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Every presidential inauguration brings out the white tablecloth crowd. But when it's an inauguration for a Texan, it brings out snakeskin boots, cowboy hats and homemade vodka from the Lone Star State.
DARRELL SHEAFFER, GENERAL MANAGER, MANDARIN ORIENTAL: This particular week is all about access. It is all about power.
VALLESE: Hotels in the nation's capital in January are usually about half full, but during the week of inauguration, that goes up to 85 percent. While most hotel rooms will cost about $300, same as always, some are offering a once-in-a-lifetime experience with a price tag to match.
SHEAFFER: What makes the room special, again, is the views.
VALLESE: Along with that view, the Mandarin Oriental hotel was offering a four-night package complete with a private jet, 3,500- square-foot suite and designer duds, all for the taking of just over $200,000. But there were no takers. The suite was booked without all the perks for $8,000 a night.
The four-night presidential package at the Ritz Carlton will run $150,000, complete with a new set of luggage packed by a personal butler and a champagne and caviar reception for 25 of your closest friends.
PAUL WESTBROOK, VICE PRESIDENT, RITZ CARLTON: Inauguration happens only every four years, and it's our Super Bowl. It's our Emmys. And it's our chance to shine, really where excess is OK.
VALLESE: At those prices, the Sofitel's don't-mess-with-Texas package may seem like a bargain at $75,000. Its perks, alligator boots, Rolex watches and eight four-piece place settings of official White House china. (on camera): Now, for those who don't have thousands to spend, the Black Tie and Boots Ball is one of the hottest tickets in town. Tickets are still available and cost around $650. As for the swearing-in ceremony and the inaugural parade, those tickets are free. And tickets are available through your local congressional office.
In Washington, I'm Julie Vallese.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NGUYEN: Speaking of tickets, we are getting a ticket to see what Titan looks like.
WHITFIELD: Yes. Let's check in with Miles O'Brien. He's been getting some beautiful pictures.
(CROSSTALK)
O'BRIEN: Yes, actually, beautiful picture.
NGUYEN: Oh, yes, that's true, one picture that we'll look at over and over again.
O'BRIEN: We should point out, this is -- we have hit upon a philosophical difference between NASA and the European Space Agency.
As you all know, when NASA hits a home run on Mars, they just start streaming out those pictures and they come in. As they come in, they release them. Now, the Europeans have a little different theory on that. They like to kind of keep things close to the vest, massage it a little bit, and parcel it out.
Of course, it is self-serving to say so, but I always think it's nice to share. Nevertheless, these pictures -- this picture, I should say, is a stunning one.
And Carolyn Porco is with us from Darmstadt, Germany. And a moment ago, it literally brought tears to her eyes. She's been working on this product for a long time. She works on the Cassini side of things. This is the Cassini-Huygens project. So, she has no direct duties there today, except to watch as a very interested observer.
And, Carolyn, based on what you have seen, well, first of all, let's talk about this issue. Why are they so slow to release these images, unlike what we see at your home shop?
PORCO: Well, to be a little bit fair to them, you know, oftentimes, images can be hard to interpret if they're raw images. I don't know what the quality of their images is before they process them.
So, maybe it's kind of like they don't want to show dirty laundry. They just want to process the images, pick -- choose the ones that are the most dramatic or the ones that are easiest to interpret, the ones that have a message right away, so they don't have to be waffling about what it means. And that may be part of why they're slow to release. But you're right. There probably is a different philosophy, too.
O'BRIEN: Yes, well, all right. And I'm not trying to be too harshly critical. We're just talking about a philosophical difference. And we can all agree that everybody has different ways of doing things.
But I have got to give JPL credit for hanging out the dirty laundry, let us all decide what we like, what we don't like.
I'm going to show an image which is on your Web site which shows kind of the conical -- oh, we just lost her, my goodness gracious.
Carolyn Porco, what are we going to do with without her?
All right, let's look at the image one more time. We'll talk about it for just a few moments. That's her image. And she was going to make some comments about how that relates to what we've seen here.
But just to recap for both of you, Betty and Fred, what we're seeing here -- I guess you don't have to be a rocket scientist on this one. These are what appear to be river channels. Is it actively flowing with liquid methane or ethane, as Carolyn Porco put it just a few moments ago? Could this out here be a giant lake filled with turpentine or paint thinner? Imagine that.
As I've said earlier today, there is no question that Titan is a nonsmoking moon. And the question is, what is the consistency of this particular area? And one thing we don't know for certain yet -- they haven't told us -- is, where, in fact, did it land? And is it bobbing in this methane ocean or is it sitting on the banks of one of these methane riverbanks?
What Carolyn will do, if we could bring her image off of the Web for just a second, she is going to compare these images, which is predicting kind of the cone and the direction that the Huygens probe is. That yellow dot in the middle is it. And she's going to try to match these features with what we've seen there.
Now, as a layperson, I have no way of connecting these two images. And without her on the satellite, I can't go much further with that. But, nevertheless, when we get a chance, we'll do that -- Betty and Fred.
WHITFIELD: Oh, well. Well, it was good while it lasted.
NGUYEN: Yes.
O'BRIEN: It was.
WHITFIELD: Well, we got a little bit of perspective from her.
O'BRIEN: Yes.
(CROSSTALK) WHITFIELD: And that really did kind of paint the picture, because we only have that one picture, Miles.
NGUYEN: That one, yes.
WHITFIELD: But it was great anyway, nonetheless. We'll get to see more of it throughout the weekend.
NGUYEN: Absolutely. And it's almost as it raises more questions than it does answers. But, of course, as they continue to investigate those pictures, we can learn much more.
WHITFIELD: Yes. All right.
O'BRIEN: Absolutely.
WHITFIELD: Well, that's going to do it for us with this edition of LIVE FROM.
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