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President Bush Releases Budget Plan
Aired February 07, 2005 - 13:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Taking a look at stories now in the news, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is in Rome. It's the latest stop on her diplomat mission across Europe and the Middle East.
Earlier, Rice met with Palestinian authority president, Mahmoud Abbas, ahead of Tuesday's Middle East summit in Egypt.
Awaiting extradition, a Florida couple accused of severely abusing and torturing five of their adopted children are behind bars in Utah. John and Linda Dollar were captured there Friday ending a nationwide man hunt.
Still unclear when an extradition hearing for that couple will be held.
Suspended, the United Nations takes action against two employees implicated in the Iraqi oil-for-food scandal. The move comes days after the former head of the aid program and another senior official were accused of misconduct by the U.N. commission investigating the oil-for-food program.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Education programs, Medicaid, health care for veterans -- all are among the many programs facing deep spending cuts under President Bush's new budget plan out today. So why the cuts, and what do they mean for Americans?
Joining me now to talk about the president's plan and the furious debate it is likely to spark in congress is former congressman and CNN contributor, Bob Barr.
Bob, good to see you.
BOB BARR, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: As a pleasure, always.
HARRIS: This is the beginning of a long process, right?
BARR: It really is...
HARRIS: We can be clear about this.
BARR: This is just the opening shot across the bough. Now the really hard work begins both in the congress and in the administration.
HARRIS: So, Bob, you're my representative. The budget proposal from the president comes out today. Are you going to read it?
BARR: Well, that's what you have staff for.
HARRIS: What do you...
BARR: That's what you have the staff do.
I tell you, if any member of congress is seeing and hearing about this for the first time today, they ought to be fired because this document, even though it's just the first shot, this has been in the work for many weeks.
And most members who know what they're doing up there already had a pretty good idea of where the cuts were going to come.
HARRIS: So, if you, for example, are in Marietta, Ohio, and you -- part of your constituency is Lockheed Martin, are you telling me that you probably had an idea that the cuts were coming -- how long ago?
BARR: Well, several weeks ago.
HARRIS: Several weeks ago.
BARR: At least.
HARRIS: The handwriting has been on the wall for Lockheed Martin. And they, -- they are going to have a tough road. They've got their work cut out for them both on the hill and with the administration.
HARRIS: So what do you do, Bob? If you've known for a couple of weeks that this is coming, that these proposals are coming and there are going to be some cuts to favor programs, what do you do now?
BARR: Well, you start turning up the heat back home. You start going to the folks in your district, the chambers of commerce, the important contributors to the Republican party are certainly important.
HARRIS: OK.
BARR: All of the subcontractors -- and there are thousands of them across the country.
HARRIS: What are you asking them to do?
BARR: You are asking them to contact members of the appropriations committee. See, those are the men and women...
HARRIS: I see.
BARR: ... that are going to make the final decision -- not the president. This is just his blueprint. What really will make the difference is if you can get to those appropriators between now and the fall.
HARRIS: So the president's blueprint, but it's also, isn't it, a political document? So if you're a congressman, or in particular, a congress person in a particular district and you see that there are some cuts being proposed to some favorite programs of yours, programs that perhaps help to get you elected in the first place, do you take this personally? The president doesn't like my proposal -- can you?
BARR: No, you don't. If you take it personally, you're going to take your eye off the ball.
HARRIS: I see.
BARR: This is not personal. It's just business. And it's a political statement. You're right.
That's basically what this document is. It's the political statement by the president that he's going to go out and campaign on and that he's going to use to exert pressure.
HARRIS: Well, could he have gone farther, cut deeper if his stated goal is to cut this budget deficit?
BARR: This, as austere as this budget proposal may appear to be to some people...
HARRIS: Yes.
BARR: ... it is not going to half or cut the deficit in half within the next few years.
HARRIS: Well, why wouldn't he propose more?
BARR: Well, because that would be too much of a drastic statement. This goes just enough, just far enough so that the president can claim to be a conservative, a budget hawk...
HARRIS: Yes.
BARR: ... but not so far that it really cuts into the meat of those important constituencies in key districts around the country.
HARRIS: And why isn't there any budget line here for the money we know the president is going to ask for, for additional funds for the war in Iraq and Afghanistan?
BARR: Well, can you say smoke and mirrors?
HARRIS: I see.
BARR: It's a way, rather disingenuous, to be honest. And a lot of us used to criticize the Clinton administration for doing this very thing.
HARRIS: Yes.
BARR: It's a way to move that off the table temporarily and then sneak it in as a supplemental and get less attention. HARRIS: Do we know what he really wants? If you say this is the process, this is -- we got a ways to go here, months -- and we'll get to that in a moment. Do the proposed cuts -- are they really what the president wants or does he know, as is your suggestion to us, that this is a process in horse trading and everything else is going to go on down the road here?
BARR: The president knows, as well as the folks in the congress, that there is going to be a lot of changes to this document. This is basically just the opening gambit.
HARRIS: OK. And one final question, give us a couple of key dates to look forward to in this process.
BARR: The next key date to look for will be around the middle of the Spring...
HARRIS: Yes.
BARR: ... when the budget resolution it passes the congress. That's congress' mark on the table.
Then, between then and when the appropriations are finally adopted in the Fall is when all of the hard lifting is going to have to take place.
HARRIS: The nuts and bolts from Bob Barr.
Bob, good to see you, as always. Thank you.
BARR: Thank you.
PHILLIPS: For more than 30 years, political junkies have speculated on the identity of "Deep Throat," the top-secret source that helped bring down the Nixon administration over the Watergate scandal.
The suspect list has included just about every '70s name you can think of with the possible exception of Sonny and Cher. But is "Deep Throat" about to be unmasked at last? Howard Kurtz, host of CNN's "RELIABLE SOURCES" lays out an intriguing scenario.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HOWARD KURTZ, CNN "RELIABLE SOURCES" HOST (voice-over): He's the most famous secret source in journalistic history, the man who whispered Watergate secrets to Bob Woodward in a parking garage, played by Hal Holbrooke in the movie "All the President's Men."
More than three decades later, could we be closer to learning the identity of "Deep Throat?" John Dean, the Nixon White House aide who went to jail over the Watergate cover up says we might.
Writing in Sunday's "Los Angeles Times," Dean says that "Deep Throat," the man -- we do know he is a man -- who helped bring down President Nixon, is ill. What's more, says Dean, Woodward has told the editor of the "Washington Post" about the illness.
How exactly does Dean know this? He's got his own "Deep Throat," a source he won't identify, who gave him the information. Woodward declined to comment Sunday about any alleged illness, but confirmed that former "Post" editor, Ben Bradley, the only other person beside Woodward and Carl Bernstein who knows "Throat's" identity, has said publicly that the obituary is already written.
At the very least, "The Post" has the material ready.
Journalists are increasingly on the defensive about their use of confidential sources. A "New York Times" reporter, Judith Miller and "Time" magazine's Matt Cooper are facing possible jail terms for refusing to disclose which Bush administration official, or officials, talked to them about Valerie Plame, the CIA operative whose role was leaked to columnists and CNN "CROSSFIRE" host, Bob Novak.
Other journalists could face jail over anonymous sources in the case of Wen Ho Lee, the former nuclear weapons scientist suing to find out who gave his name to reporters, including one former CNN correspondent.
Last week's opening of an exhibit of Woodward and Bernstein's papers at the University of Texas rekindled interest in "Deep Throat," who is still held up as a good source, a classic example of a whistle blower, who needed to be protected by the press.
But who was "Deep Throat?" What was his motivation? And why did he betray Richard Nixon?
(on camera) If John Dean is right, we may soon be able to answer those lingering questions.
Howard Kurtz, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Well, the current executive editor of "The Post," Len Downie, tells Howard Kurtz that Woodward has not contacted him to say that "Deep Throat" is ill.
Well, you don't have to be a pundit to be intrigued by this political parlor game, especially when names on the suspect list have at some point included Henry Kissinger, Pat Buchanan, former President Bush and even news anchor, Diane Sawyer.
Some of those have been defunct, but others remain tantalizing possibilities. Journalist Bernard Kalb joins us now from Washington to talk about the likeliest remaining candidates for the who done it.
Good to see you, Bernie.
BERNARD KALB, JOURNALIST: Well, thanks very much.
I've been checking around with palm readers and astrologers, and they've given me no names whatsoever. And personally, I hate to join the death watch, checking hospitals to find out who is seriously ill, and thereby reveal who "Deep Throat" is.
PHILLIPS: But Bernie, this is -- this is the biggest, I mean, death watch every to hit history. I mean, we -- everybody wants to know.
Why do you think so many people are so intrigued? After 30 years, people are still fascinated.
KALB: No, 30 years ago -- you know, those of us who were alive 30 years ago remember the excitement and the drama and the tension that flooded the United States from coast to coast about Watergate.
It led to the resignation of a president. It had an enormous affect on foreign policy. It grounded the B-52s that President Nixon may have used against Vietnam at that particular point with the communist forces on the roll.
But 30 years later it is, indeed, a fascinating story. And we are all curious about the identity of "Deep Throat." But I tell be you, I've been sleeping fairly well in the past 30 years. I've not stayed up to explore who "Deep Throat" was or wasn't.
PHILLIPS: But I know you've thought of it.
KALB: And I'm prepared to exhibit a bit more patience about this.
PHILLIPS: We've been patient for long enough. Come on. We hear that the obituary has been written. We hear we might know the name.
You know, are you surprised that it's been kept a secret for so many years?
KALB: Astonished, as a matter of fact. But there is a question that comes up. You're suggesting that Ben Bradley has written the obituary of "Deep Throat." So Ben Bradley, of course, was indeed informed.
Does that mean there has not been a single leak of people at the "Washington Post" who have dealt with the story, possibly edited it or whatever, there has not been a scrap even of a syllable of his identity. And that is a remarkable achievement.
That is to say, when you give a source, confidentiality, you hang on to it decade after decade. That's something admirable about journalism.
PHILLIPS: It's pretty amazing. What do you think about jailing "deep throats?"
KALB: About what?
PHILLIPS: Jailing "deep throats," protecting our sources and being jailed for it or not being jailed for it?
KALB: Well, the question comes up about whether there was a violation of federal law. I'm in favor of anonymous sources. I think otherwise, journalism would be reduced to a megaphone for an administration.
Anonymous sources are critical if you deal with them responsibly and you check out the responsibility of the anonymous source. But strip anonymous sources from journalism, and you're dealing with handouts from morning until night.
PHILLIPS: Isn't that the truth?
All right, here is what we know, that "Deep Throat" -- this has, of course, been out there -- that he's a male. He's one person not a composite of a number of people, was executive branch insider, as of 1972 was a smoker and drank Scotch.
Woodward has vowed not reveal until "Deep Throat" dies or gives the green light. He's also being called an incurable gossip by Woodward.
KALB: Now, I would have...
PHILLIPS: Yes?
KALB: I would have thought it was Richard Nixon, except he's already passed on.
PHILLIPS: All right. In addition to Nixon, why don't we throw out some other presidents? There has been talk about Gerald Ford, dad Bush. What do you think? Why would these names be tossed into the ring?
KALB: Why not? I mean this is journalism. This is television journalism. And you can throw all the names into the journalistic circus and not be able to confirm any of them.
And what's more, you've got to keep doing that because it is an interesting subject, and it is perfectly journalistically legitimate to raise all these names.
And I suppose I could be reckless and say, yes, it was so and so, and, yes, it was so and so. And 24 hours later it makes no bit of a difference.
PHILLIPS: All right, let me go to a different realm, OK? Let's go back into White House -- the reason I want to ask you about this name, is when I was overseas prior to the war, I happened to be, you know, at a dinner party. There was a lot of Scotch there. But, you know, I wasn't drinking because I wanted to pay attention to what was being said.
And the name Alex Butterfield came up.
KALB: Alex Butterfield.
PHILLIPS: What do you think? KALB: Well, I remember Alex Butterfield, assuming my memory is still good, that it was Alex Butterfield who revealed that there was a secret taping instrument in the White House.
PHILLIPS: Correct.
KALB: And could it be Alex? I don't know. Have you checked with his doctor?
PHILLIPS: I've tried contacting his son, but I'm not getting a call.
Another interesting person, Patrick Gray, former acting FBI director -- this is a name I've seen quite a bit. FBI, you know, connection here?
KALB: Yes. That name -- that name, indeed, did circulate at that particular time when the great guessing game went on.
Remember, this has been an off and on guessing game now for more than 30 years. And some of the names that you have put forth are names that have turned up on the Nickelodeon, so to speak, all these years ago.
Who it is, Kyra, you've got to practice...
PHILLIPS: You're guess is as good as mine.
KALB: ... a little patience.
PHILLIPS: I've never been able to do that. Just ask my father.
Bernard, thanks so much for your time today. I'm going to be calling you as soon as we find out. You're going to be the first one I call.
KALB: Pleasure. Thank you.
PHILLIPS: Thanks, Bernard.
HARRIS: It is must-see TV, Iraq style.
Alleged insurgents apologize for their crimes on the airwaves. Will it have an impact on violence? Nic Robertson reports next.
And a giant pizza brings in lots of dough for tsunami relief. The shocker, where it happened.
"LIVE FROM" brings you the world one slice at a time.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Naming and shaming, it's the latest tactic being used in Iraq as police are turning propaganda footage against the suspected insurgents who shot it.
CNN's senior international correspondent, Nic Robertson, says the practice is not meeting with universal support.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Looking coward and submissive, suspected insurgents line up for a police camera -- part of a new initiative to combat terror.
Naming, shaming and intimidating others not to join their ranks.
This is me, says, Muhammad Al Sharquan (ph), pointing to a picture of three insurgents and a captive in front of an Abu Musab al- Zarqawi banner. Next to me is Fawaz (ph), and next to me again is Ali (ph). We're preparing to kill this man.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We showed these tapes of confessions to show the Iraqi people the ministry of interior's efforts to ensure they are safe and terrorists are being captured.
ROBERTSON: The insurgent's own propaganda video releases are used to confront and belittle them.
Di'a Aldin Musa Al-Jarwi (ph) appears shaken.
I saw them bring him to the amusement park in Mosul, he says. I didn't know he was going to be killed. They told me he was going to work with us. Then I realized he was going to be killed.
On the next video of a victim, he shows remorse. He was a Christian, the poor man he says, he was innocent and had children.
The use of videos like these on Iraqi television showing alleged insurgents has human rights groups up in arms and some international groups have accused the police of brutality.
Ministers have admitted brutalities in the past, explaining it's the leftover mentality from Saddam Hussein's brutal regime.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There have been abuses in pre-trial detention centers in some places. We have knowledge of that, and we condemn that. And the Iraqi government's position is clear that we are against torturing.
ROBERTSON: Iraqi security forces say they know better how to get information out of Iraqis than U.S. troops do but claim to stay within the law.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We took these confessions at the crime scene. They had in their possession tapes of themselves executing these crimes. We didn't make them up or arrange them.
All these crimes of killing and beheading were filmed by themselves.
ROBERTSON: Police have been slow to join the propaganda war. Insurgent video releases have been multiplying their ranks for some time. And recent videos like this show a logo burned into the picture, a degree more sophistication than their early footage.
(on camera) More than any other war, this conflict is being won and lost through the transmitted image. Abu Musab al-Zarqawi has grown his international following to the relatively simple means of recording and releasing his atrocities on the Internet, reversing that trend and taking the image and the fear it conveys to the enemy is, and as yet, an unproven tactic.
Nic Robertson, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: And news around the world now, no casualties reported but plenty of destruction as a cyclone Nina rips through the Cocoa Islands between Hawaii and New Zealand. Thanks to advanced warnings, people moved to higher ground and storm shelters.
Hundreds of tourists remain stranded as powerful winds and surf continue to batter the region. It will be another eight to 12 hours before the cyclone's intensity slacks off.
And would you like a slice of pizza with extra pannier (ph)? Is that it, Kyra, pannier (ph)?
Chefs in Bangalore, India got together -- is that it?
PHILLIPS: It's like an Indian, tofu cheese.
HARRIS: Is that what it is?
PHILLIPS: Yes, it's really good, actually.
HARRIS: Well, these chefs got together in Bangalore, India, you know, to cook up a 120-foot long pizza. The event was an effort to raise funds for India's five million tsunami survivors.
We've got more LIVE FROM for you when we take a quick break and come right back.
SUSAN LISOVICZ: CNN SR. BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: I'm Susan Lisovicz at the New York Stock Exchange. Ebay is cutting fees as it tries to pacify some angry customers. I'll have that story coming up on LIVE FROM.
Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: From model to receptionist to the wife of a real estate tycoon, this billionaire also had her day in court and spent some time in prison. As part of CNN's anniversary series, "Then and Now," we look back at Leona Helmsley and see where she is today.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT: She's known as the "queen of mean." Hotel magnate real estate tycoon and unapologetic tax evader, Leona Helmsley personified the ultra rich who bend the rules.
She allegedly once told her housekeeper, "Only the little people pay taxes."
Convicted of 33 felony counts of trying to defraud the government and the IRS in 1989, Helmsley served 18 months in prison.
LEONA HELMSLEY, BILLIONAIRE: I have done nothing wrong. I am not guilty.
UNIDENTIFIED CNN REPORTER: Helmsley will turn 85 this year and remains involved in day to day operations of her empire. Her husband Harry died in 1997, and she now spends a lot of time with her dog.
Helmsley is still one of the wealthiest women in the world with a reported net worth of more than $2.2 billion.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LISOVICZ: I'm Susan Lisovicz at the New York Stock Exchange, where we have some good news for some Ebay users.
The auction giant is trying to make amends. It plans to reduce some fees and improve customer service on its site. This move comes less than a month after it announced a price hike that unbreached many small business owners.
For the past three weeks, some Ebay sellers have lashed out with angry e-mails threatening to increase their prices, close their stores or jump ship to auctions hosted by Yahoo or other Web sites.
Although Ebay isn't backing off price hikes, the move might repair some of those strained relations.
Turning to today's market stocks, well, they're moving to the negative side right now. The Dow industrials off 12. The NASDAQ more than a third of a percent lower.
And that's the latest from Wall Street.
Coming up, a company that's paying out a huge settlement to its clients might wind up with a huge tax deduction. I'll have that story.
Stay tuned. LIVE --
LIVE FROM continues after this break.
PHILLIPS: You may not read all four volumes, but the facts and figures contained in these pages affect nearly every aspect of your life.
We're taking you inside President Bush's budget.
HARRIS: An historic moment from Iraq. The big vote, but we've got a story you have not heard about -- a hero who risked it all for his countrymen that day.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired February 7, 2005 - 13:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Taking a look at stories now in the news, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is in Rome. It's the latest stop on her diplomat mission across Europe and the Middle East.
Earlier, Rice met with Palestinian authority president, Mahmoud Abbas, ahead of Tuesday's Middle East summit in Egypt.
Awaiting extradition, a Florida couple accused of severely abusing and torturing five of their adopted children are behind bars in Utah. John and Linda Dollar were captured there Friday ending a nationwide man hunt.
Still unclear when an extradition hearing for that couple will be held.
Suspended, the United Nations takes action against two employees implicated in the Iraqi oil-for-food scandal. The move comes days after the former head of the aid program and another senior official were accused of misconduct by the U.N. commission investigating the oil-for-food program.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Education programs, Medicaid, health care for veterans -- all are among the many programs facing deep spending cuts under President Bush's new budget plan out today. So why the cuts, and what do they mean for Americans?
Joining me now to talk about the president's plan and the furious debate it is likely to spark in congress is former congressman and CNN contributor, Bob Barr.
Bob, good to see you.
BOB BARR, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: As a pleasure, always.
HARRIS: This is the beginning of a long process, right?
BARR: It really is...
HARRIS: We can be clear about this.
BARR: This is just the opening shot across the bough. Now the really hard work begins both in the congress and in the administration.
HARRIS: So, Bob, you're my representative. The budget proposal from the president comes out today. Are you going to read it?
BARR: Well, that's what you have staff for.
HARRIS: What do you...
BARR: That's what you have the staff do.
I tell you, if any member of congress is seeing and hearing about this for the first time today, they ought to be fired because this document, even though it's just the first shot, this has been in the work for many weeks.
And most members who know what they're doing up there already had a pretty good idea of where the cuts were going to come.
HARRIS: So, if you, for example, are in Marietta, Ohio, and you -- part of your constituency is Lockheed Martin, are you telling me that you probably had an idea that the cuts were coming -- how long ago?
BARR: Well, several weeks ago.
HARRIS: Several weeks ago.
BARR: At least.
HARRIS: The handwriting has been on the wall for Lockheed Martin. And they, -- they are going to have a tough road. They've got their work cut out for them both on the hill and with the administration.
HARRIS: So what do you do, Bob? If you've known for a couple of weeks that this is coming, that these proposals are coming and there are going to be some cuts to favor programs, what do you do now?
BARR: Well, you start turning up the heat back home. You start going to the folks in your district, the chambers of commerce, the important contributors to the Republican party are certainly important.
HARRIS: OK.
BARR: All of the subcontractors -- and there are thousands of them across the country.
HARRIS: What are you asking them to do?
BARR: You are asking them to contact members of the appropriations committee. See, those are the men and women...
HARRIS: I see.
BARR: ... that are going to make the final decision -- not the president. This is just his blueprint. What really will make the difference is if you can get to those appropriators between now and the fall.
HARRIS: So the president's blueprint, but it's also, isn't it, a political document? So if you're a congressman, or in particular, a congress person in a particular district and you see that there are some cuts being proposed to some favorite programs of yours, programs that perhaps help to get you elected in the first place, do you take this personally? The president doesn't like my proposal -- can you?
BARR: No, you don't. If you take it personally, you're going to take your eye off the ball.
HARRIS: I see.
BARR: This is not personal. It's just business. And it's a political statement. You're right.
That's basically what this document is. It's the political statement by the president that he's going to go out and campaign on and that he's going to use to exert pressure.
HARRIS: Well, could he have gone farther, cut deeper if his stated goal is to cut this budget deficit?
BARR: This, as austere as this budget proposal may appear to be to some people...
HARRIS: Yes.
BARR: ... it is not going to half or cut the deficit in half within the next few years.
HARRIS: Well, why wouldn't he propose more?
BARR: Well, because that would be too much of a drastic statement. This goes just enough, just far enough so that the president can claim to be a conservative, a budget hawk...
HARRIS: Yes.
BARR: ... but not so far that it really cuts into the meat of those important constituencies in key districts around the country.
HARRIS: And why isn't there any budget line here for the money we know the president is going to ask for, for additional funds for the war in Iraq and Afghanistan?
BARR: Well, can you say smoke and mirrors?
HARRIS: I see.
BARR: It's a way, rather disingenuous, to be honest. And a lot of us used to criticize the Clinton administration for doing this very thing.
HARRIS: Yes.
BARR: It's a way to move that off the table temporarily and then sneak it in as a supplemental and get less attention. HARRIS: Do we know what he really wants? If you say this is the process, this is -- we got a ways to go here, months -- and we'll get to that in a moment. Do the proposed cuts -- are they really what the president wants or does he know, as is your suggestion to us, that this is a process in horse trading and everything else is going to go on down the road here?
BARR: The president knows, as well as the folks in the congress, that there is going to be a lot of changes to this document. This is basically just the opening gambit.
HARRIS: OK. And one final question, give us a couple of key dates to look forward to in this process.
BARR: The next key date to look for will be around the middle of the Spring...
HARRIS: Yes.
BARR: ... when the budget resolution it passes the congress. That's congress' mark on the table.
Then, between then and when the appropriations are finally adopted in the Fall is when all of the hard lifting is going to have to take place.
HARRIS: The nuts and bolts from Bob Barr.
Bob, good to see you, as always. Thank you.
BARR: Thank you.
PHILLIPS: For more than 30 years, political junkies have speculated on the identity of "Deep Throat," the top-secret source that helped bring down the Nixon administration over the Watergate scandal.
The suspect list has included just about every '70s name you can think of with the possible exception of Sonny and Cher. But is "Deep Throat" about to be unmasked at last? Howard Kurtz, host of CNN's "RELIABLE SOURCES" lays out an intriguing scenario.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HOWARD KURTZ, CNN "RELIABLE SOURCES" HOST (voice-over): He's the most famous secret source in journalistic history, the man who whispered Watergate secrets to Bob Woodward in a parking garage, played by Hal Holbrooke in the movie "All the President's Men."
More than three decades later, could we be closer to learning the identity of "Deep Throat?" John Dean, the Nixon White House aide who went to jail over the Watergate cover up says we might.
Writing in Sunday's "Los Angeles Times," Dean says that "Deep Throat," the man -- we do know he is a man -- who helped bring down President Nixon, is ill. What's more, says Dean, Woodward has told the editor of the "Washington Post" about the illness.
How exactly does Dean know this? He's got his own "Deep Throat," a source he won't identify, who gave him the information. Woodward declined to comment Sunday about any alleged illness, but confirmed that former "Post" editor, Ben Bradley, the only other person beside Woodward and Carl Bernstein who knows "Throat's" identity, has said publicly that the obituary is already written.
At the very least, "The Post" has the material ready.
Journalists are increasingly on the defensive about their use of confidential sources. A "New York Times" reporter, Judith Miller and "Time" magazine's Matt Cooper are facing possible jail terms for refusing to disclose which Bush administration official, or officials, talked to them about Valerie Plame, the CIA operative whose role was leaked to columnists and CNN "CROSSFIRE" host, Bob Novak.
Other journalists could face jail over anonymous sources in the case of Wen Ho Lee, the former nuclear weapons scientist suing to find out who gave his name to reporters, including one former CNN correspondent.
Last week's opening of an exhibit of Woodward and Bernstein's papers at the University of Texas rekindled interest in "Deep Throat," who is still held up as a good source, a classic example of a whistle blower, who needed to be protected by the press.
But who was "Deep Throat?" What was his motivation? And why did he betray Richard Nixon?
(on camera) If John Dean is right, we may soon be able to answer those lingering questions.
Howard Kurtz, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Well, the current executive editor of "The Post," Len Downie, tells Howard Kurtz that Woodward has not contacted him to say that "Deep Throat" is ill.
Well, you don't have to be a pundit to be intrigued by this political parlor game, especially when names on the suspect list have at some point included Henry Kissinger, Pat Buchanan, former President Bush and even news anchor, Diane Sawyer.
Some of those have been defunct, but others remain tantalizing possibilities. Journalist Bernard Kalb joins us now from Washington to talk about the likeliest remaining candidates for the who done it.
Good to see you, Bernie.
BERNARD KALB, JOURNALIST: Well, thanks very much.
I've been checking around with palm readers and astrologers, and they've given me no names whatsoever. And personally, I hate to join the death watch, checking hospitals to find out who is seriously ill, and thereby reveal who "Deep Throat" is.
PHILLIPS: But Bernie, this is -- this is the biggest, I mean, death watch every to hit history. I mean, we -- everybody wants to know.
Why do you think so many people are so intrigued? After 30 years, people are still fascinated.
KALB: No, 30 years ago -- you know, those of us who were alive 30 years ago remember the excitement and the drama and the tension that flooded the United States from coast to coast about Watergate.
It led to the resignation of a president. It had an enormous affect on foreign policy. It grounded the B-52s that President Nixon may have used against Vietnam at that particular point with the communist forces on the roll.
But 30 years later it is, indeed, a fascinating story. And we are all curious about the identity of "Deep Throat." But I tell be you, I've been sleeping fairly well in the past 30 years. I've not stayed up to explore who "Deep Throat" was or wasn't.
PHILLIPS: But I know you've thought of it.
KALB: And I'm prepared to exhibit a bit more patience about this.
PHILLIPS: We've been patient for long enough. Come on. We hear that the obituary has been written. We hear we might know the name.
You know, are you surprised that it's been kept a secret for so many years?
KALB: Astonished, as a matter of fact. But there is a question that comes up. You're suggesting that Ben Bradley has written the obituary of "Deep Throat." So Ben Bradley, of course, was indeed informed.
Does that mean there has not been a single leak of people at the "Washington Post" who have dealt with the story, possibly edited it or whatever, there has not been a scrap even of a syllable of his identity. And that is a remarkable achievement.
That is to say, when you give a source, confidentiality, you hang on to it decade after decade. That's something admirable about journalism.
PHILLIPS: It's pretty amazing. What do you think about jailing "deep throats?"
KALB: About what?
PHILLIPS: Jailing "deep throats," protecting our sources and being jailed for it or not being jailed for it?
KALB: Well, the question comes up about whether there was a violation of federal law. I'm in favor of anonymous sources. I think otherwise, journalism would be reduced to a megaphone for an administration.
Anonymous sources are critical if you deal with them responsibly and you check out the responsibility of the anonymous source. But strip anonymous sources from journalism, and you're dealing with handouts from morning until night.
PHILLIPS: Isn't that the truth?
All right, here is what we know, that "Deep Throat" -- this has, of course, been out there -- that he's a male. He's one person not a composite of a number of people, was executive branch insider, as of 1972 was a smoker and drank Scotch.
Woodward has vowed not reveal until "Deep Throat" dies or gives the green light. He's also being called an incurable gossip by Woodward.
KALB: Now, I would have...
PHILLIPS: Yes?
KALB: I would have thought it was Richard Nixon, except he's already passed on.
PHILLIPS: All right. In addition to Nixon, why don't we throw out some other presidents? There has been talk about Gerald Ford, dad Bush. What do you think? Why would these names be tossed into the ring?
KALB: Why not? I mean this is journalism. This is television journalism. And you can throw all the names into the journalistic circus and not be able to confirm any of them.
And what's more, you've got to keep doing that because it is an interesting subject, and it is perfectly journalistically legitimate to raise all these names.
And I suppose I could be reckless and say, yes, it was so and so, and, yes, it was so and so. And 24 hours later it makes no bit of a difference.
PHILLIPS: All right, let me go to a different realm, OK? Let's go back into White House -- the reason I want to ask you about this name, is when I was overseas prior to the war, I happened to be, you know, at a dinner party. There was a lot of Scotch there. But, you know, I wasn't drinking because I wanted to pay attention to what was being said.
And the name Alex Butterfield came up.
KALB: Alex Butterfield.
PHILLIPS: What do you think? KALB: Well, I remember Alex Butterfield, assuming my memory is still good, that it was Alex Butterfield who revealed that there was a secret taping instrument in the White House.
PHILLIPS: Correct.
KALB: And could it be Alex? I don't know. Have you checked with his doctor?
PHILLIPS: I've tried contacting his son, but I'm not getting a call.
Another interesting person, Patrick Gray, former acting FBI director -- this is a name I've seen quite a bit. FBI, you know, connection here?
KALB: Yes. That name -- that name, indeed, did circulate at that particular time when the great guessing game went on.
Remember, this has been an off and on guessing game now for more than 30 years. And some of the names that you have put forth are names that have turned up on the Nickelodeon, so to speak, all these years ago.
Who it is, Kyra, you've got to practice...
PHILLIPS: You're guess is as good as mine.
KALB: ... a little patience.
PHILLIPS: I've never been able to do that. Just ask my father.
Bernard, thanks so much for your time today. I'm going to be calling you as soon as we find out. You're going to be the first one I call.
KALB: Pleasure. Thank you.
PHILLIPS: Thanks, Bernard.
HARRIS: It is must-see TV, Iraq style.
Alleged insurgents apologize for their crimes on the airwaves. Will it have an impact on violence? Nic Robertson reports next.
And a giant pizza brings in lots of dough for tsunami relief. The shocker, where it happened.
"LIVE FROM" brings you the world one slice at a time.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Naming and shaming, it's the latest tactic being used in Iraq as police are turning propaganda footage against the suspected insurgents who shot it.
CNN's senior international correspondent, Nic Robertson, says the practice is not meeting with universal support.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Looking coward and submissive, suspected insurgents line up for a police camera -- part of a new initiative to combat terror.
Naming, shaming and intimidating others not to join their ranks.
This is me, says, Muhammad Al Sharquan (ph), pointing to a picture of three insurgents and a captive in front of an Abu Musab al- Zarqawi banner. Next to me is Fawaz (ph), and next to me again is Ali (ph). We're preparing to kill this man.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We showed these tapes of confessions to show the Iraqi people the ministry of interior's efforts to ensure they are safe and terrorists are being captured.
ROBERTSON: The insurgent's own propaganda video releases are used to confront and belittle them.
Di'a Aldin Musa Al-Jarwi (ph) appears shaken.
I saw them bring him to the amusement park in Mosul, he says. I didn't know he was going to be killed. They told me he was going to work with us. Then I realized he was going to be killed.
On the next video of a victim, he shows remorse. He was a Christian, the poor man he says, he was innocent and had children.
The use of videos like these on Iraqi television showing alleged insurgents has human rights groups up in arms and some international groups have accused the police of brutality.
Ministers have admitted brutalities in the past, explaining it's the leftover mentality from Saddam Hussein's brutal regime.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There have been abuses in pre-trial detention centers in some places. We have knowledge of that, and we condemn that. And the Iraqi government's position is clear that we are against torturing.
ROBERTSON: Iraqi security forces say they know better how to get information out of Iraqis than U.S. troops do but claim to stay within the law.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We took these confessions at the crime scene. They had in their possession tapes of themselves executing these crimes. We didn't make them up or arrange them.
All these crimes of killing and beheading were filmed by themselves.
ROBERTSON: Police have been slow to join the propaganda war. Insurgent video releases have been multiplying their ranks for some time. And recent videos like this show a logo burned into the picture, a degree more sophistication than their early footage.
(on camera) More than any other war, this conflict is being won and lost through the transmitted image. Abu Musab al-Zarqawi has grown his international following to the relatively simple means of recording and releasing his atrocities on the Internet, reversing that trend and taking the image and the fear it conveys to the enemy is, and as yet, an unproven tactic.
Nic Robertson, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: And news around the world now, no casualties reported but plenty of destruction as a cyclone Nina rips through the Cocoa Islands between Hawaii and New Zealand. Thanks to advanced warnings, people moved to higher ground and storm shelters.
Hundreds of tourists remain stranded as powerful winds and surf continue to batter the region. It will be another eight to 12 hours before the cyclone's intensity slacks off.
And would you like a slice of pizza with extra pannier (ph)? Is that it, Kyra, pannier (ph)?
Chefs in Bangalore, India got together -- is that it?
PHILLIPS: It's like an Indian, tofu cheese.
HARRIS: Is that what it is?
PHILLIPS: Yes, it's really good, actually.
HARRIS: Well, these chefs got together in Bangalore, India, you know, to cook up a 120-foot long pizza. The event was an effort to raise funds for India's five million tsunami survivors.
We've got more LIVE FROM for you when we take a quick break and come right back.
SUSAN LISOVICZ: CNN SR. BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: I'm Susan Lisovicz at the New York Stock Exchange. Ebay is cutting fees as it tries to pacify some angry customers. I'll have that story coming up on LIVE FROM.
Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: From model to receptionist to the wife of a real estate tycoon, this billionaire also had her day in court and spent some time in prison. As part of CNN's anniversary series, "Then and Now," we look back at Leona Helmsley and see where she is today.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT: She's known as the "queen of mean." Hotel magnate real estate tycoon and unapologetic tax evader, Leona Helmsley personified the ultra rich who bend the rules.
She allegedly once told her housekeeper, "Only the little people pay taxes."
Convicted of 33 felony counts of trying to defraud the government and the IRS in 1989, Helmsley served 18 months in prison.
LEONA HELMSLEY, BILLIONAIRE: I have done nothing wrong. I am not guilty.
UNIDENTIFIED CNN REPORTER: Helmsley will turn 85 this year and remains involved in day to day operations of her empire. Her husband Harry died in 1997, and she now spends a lot of time with her dog.
Helmsley is still one of the wealthiest women in the world with a reported net worth of more than $2.2 billion.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LISOVICZ: I'm Susan Lisovicz at the New York Stock Exchange, where we have some good news for some Ebay users.
The auction giant is trying to make amends. It plans to reduce some fees and improve customer service on its site. This move comes less than a month after it announced a price hike that unbreached many small business owners.
For the past three weeks, some Ebay sellers have lashed out with angry e-mails threatening to increase their prices, close their stores or jump ship to auctions hosted by Yahoo or other Web sites.
Although Ebay isn't backing off price hikes, the move might repair some of those strained relations.
Turning to today's market stocks, well, they're moving to the negative side right now. The Dow industrials off 12. The NASDAQ more than a third of a percent lower.
And that's the latest from Wall Street.
Coming up, a company that's paying out a huge settlement to its clients might wind up with a huge tax deduction. I'll have that story.
Stay tuned. LIVE --
LIVE FROM continues after this break.
PHILLIPS: You may not read all four volumes, but the facts and figures contained in these pages affect nearly every aspect of your life.
We're taking you inside President Bush's budget.
HARRIS: An historic moment from Iraq. The big vote, but we've got a story you have not heard about -- a hero who risked it all for his countrymen that day.
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