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Ex-CIA Agents Talk Shop
Aired February 08, 2005 - 14:29 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: "Now in the News," President Bush is off and running, promoting his controversial budget proposal to the American people. Today he told business leaders in Detroit the spending plan would bring discipline to government by cutting programs that aren't needed or don't meet their goals.
Turning the page, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, live pictures right now, meeting with the foreign minister of France. The country was one of the most vocal critics of the Iraq war. Speaking earlier in Paris, Rice said that it's time to turn away from the past disagreements and look forward to the future.
A handshake and a deal to stop fighting, that's what Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and Mahmoud Abbas are taking away from today's summit in Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt. Abbas agreed to order militant groups to stop attacking Israel. Israel says it would hand over five West Bank towns and release hundreds of Palestinian prisoners.
Pope John Paul II will not preside over Ash Wednesday's services tomorrow at the Vatican. A spokesperson says that the pope will be in the hospital until at least Thursday. He hasn't missed public Ash Wednesday prayers since becoming pope 27 years ago.
Glimpse inside the secret culture of the CIA. Three former operatives who spent more than 50 years combined living covert lives, well, they've written books about their experiences inside the spy agency.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Our national security correspondent David Ensor sits down with them to get a firsthand look at how they operated, recruited other spies, and survived some dangerous missions.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): We met at a bar not far from the CIA, once a popular hangout for the spy set. Both women were clandestine officers. Both have now written books, Melissa Mahle, an Arabic speaker with 14 years at the CIA, and Lindsay Moran, who spent five years with the agency, part of it in Southeastern Europe.
(on camera): Have either of you ever been to this bar before?
MELISSA MAHLE, AUTHOR, "DENIAL AND DECEPTION": This is my first time.
LINDSAY MORAN, AUTHOR, "BLOWING MY COVER": I have been here once.
ENSOR: OK, with others from the agency or...
MORAN: With one other colleague from the agency.
ENSOR: Is this the kind of setting in which a case officer might try to recruit agents?
MAHLE: I would bring somebody here and spend time with them. I don't think I would use this kind of a very intimate, closed-in setting for an actual recruitment pitch.
ENSOR: What sort of a setting would you look for, for that?
MAHLE: Well, I think that I would like to have someplace where there are not a lot of people and where I can speak more privately, because what if the person goes crazy on you?
MORAN: You want to be somewhere where if, as Melissa said, if the person goes crazy or makes a scene, it's not going to blow your cover.
ENSOR (voice-over): Floyd Paseman also knows something about recruiting spies. We visited him at his home outside Williamsburg, Virginia. Fluent in Chinese, author of a new book, Paseman is a decorated 34-year veteran.
(on camera): Was your life ever in danger as a CIA officer?
PASEMAN: Yes, it was on a number of occasions. I don't want to overdramatize it, but The Iranian intelligence service attempted to assassinate me on one of my assignments. They failed, as you can see.
ENSOR (voice-over): Their job was to go to dangerous places sometimes and try to recruit potentially dangerous people.
(on camera): You're an Arabic speaker, a specialist in the Arab world, but you're a blue-eyed blonde. Did that ever -- was that ever a problem for you?
MAHLE: No. Actually, I always found it to be an advantage.
(LAUGHTER)
ENSOR: Ah. How so?
MAHLE: The Arab male rather likes to sit down and talk to a blonde, blue-eyed woman and get to know her. And so I found them to be very welcoming to my efforts to spend some time with them. I've always found that once you say, no, I'm sorry, I'm not going to sleep with you, and that's not why I want to be your friend, then they are so bewildered and befuddled by all of that, you just have them wrapped around your little finger. You can take them anywhere you want to go from there.
ENSOR: But Lindsay Moran, who I also met for lunch earlier, told me it isn't always quite that easy.
MORAN: I knew plenty of women who did get themselves in uncomfortable situations, one woman who was being chased around a hotel room by a sort of libidinous Arab agent. That's a case where she obviously didn't do enough early on to establish the parameters of the relationship.
ENSOR (on camera): Did you ever change your appearance to blend in?
MAHLE: Oh, you betcha. When I wanted to go operational and effectively disappear, the best way to do that in the Middle East is put on a veil.
ENSOR: So you did that?
MAHLE: Oh, yes. And I'll tell you, the minute you put on the head scarf, you put on the big, black tent dress, you look just like every single Arab woman there. And in their culture, they won't look you in the eyes if you're veiled. They know that's rude. So you really do become invisible.
ENSOR (voice-over): Over the years the, CIA's training has changed somewhat, but all three trained to parachute into hostile territory. All three learned to shoot.
PASEMAN: I packed heat for quite a while.
ENSOR (on camera): Ever have to use it?
PASEMAN: Never did, thank God.
ENSOR: Did you ever run into any known terrorists?
MAHLE: Yasser Arafat. A lot of people considered him to be a terrorist. And he was somebody with whom that I met with and worked with.
Also, I had, you know, odd experiences, weird experiences of being in a restaurant seated the distance between you and me and looking over there and seeing Abu Abbas, the notorious mastermind behind the Achille Lauro hijacking, in which a U.S. citizen was killed. And that's up close and personal.
ENSOR: What did you do?
MAHLE: I had to go back and go through a very bureaucratic process of writing a cable and saying, hey, this guy, not only is he here; he's running around completely without concern of being caught.
ENSOR: Did anything come of it?
MAHLE: Absolutely nothing.
ENSOR: I have to ask you why you left. MAHLE: Complicated question, answer. A lot of it I can't talk about, because I have a very threatening letter from the CIA telling me that it's classified without actually telling me what part of it is classified.
But the bottom-line issue was that they didn't like a relationship that I had with a foreigner. And you know what? I was paid to go out and meet foreigners. And this is just one of the rules, again, that's wrong.
ENSOR: Was this something that would have happened to a man, too?
MAHLE: I don't believe so.
ENSOR: This is kind of an unusual situation. I'm sitting in a bar with two ladies who were spies for their country and have now -- and lived in a secret culture -- and have now written books about it. Are you outcasts from the CIA?
MAHLE: I would say it's a mixed bag.
(LAUGHTER)
MORAN: Definitely a mixed bag.
I certainly have lots of friends who are still there. I probably wouldn't show up here for happy hour.
(LAUGHTER)
MORAN: But I've heard mixed reactions, certainly, to my book, a lot of people who are extremely angered just by virtue of the fact that I wrote a book. And then a lot of people who say, you know, that's great, and you said a lot of things that need to be said.
ENSOR (voice-over): All three argue there are too many rules, too many limitations on CIA officers imposed from Washington. All argue for a back-to-basics approach to intelligence gathering in a post-9/11 world.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Well, what does that back-to-basics approach entail?
HARRIS: Part two of David Ensor's report is next. The agents say it may mean breaking some rules and taking more risks.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: So what's it like to go after the bad guys? Our national security correspondent David Ensor continues his fascinating look at the secretive lives of three former CIA spies.
PHILLIPS: They reveal some of the tricks of the trade and what they see as the agency's biggest weakness. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR (voice-over): Floyd Paseman was the spy who played in a band.
(on camera): "Everyone's Talking at Me?"
PASEMAN: Yes, sir.
ENSOR: Harry Nelson (ph)?
PASEMAN: Yes.
ENSOR: So guitar, spy, where did that fit in?
PASEMAN: Well, it's basically a tool.
ENSOR (voice-over): A tool that once got Paseman's band a gig at the Russian ambassador's residence. Target-rich environment for recruiting spies.
PASEMAN: Best tool I had in 35 years.
ENSOR (on camera): So this is what you used to recruit agents?
PASEMAN: Very helpful.
ENSOR: Music.
PASEMAN: Music.
ENSOR (voice-over): Music, says Paseman, or whatever it took.
PASEMAN: I've done everything from been a stamp collector to a model airplane, to running jogging clubs, all with the idea of running into a specific person that I felt might have access to secret information.
ENSOR: Paseman, as well as former CIA officers Lindsay Moran and Melissa Mahle say recruiting spies is a delicate dance that can take years, and far too often runs into interference from headquarters.
MORAN: When I tried to go after targets that were of relevance that might have had terrorist ties, I was actually discouraged from doing so.
MAHLE: I personally proposed an operation to penetrate a terrorist camp. Not an al Qaeda camp but a different terrorist camp, and I had deafening silence from headquarters, from Langley. Their response was, this is dangerous, and did you really consider how dangerous it was?
We have so many rules and regulations of what we can and cannot do. And those rules and regulations are there because the agency has been burned either by doing something wrong and then having a backlash from Congress, in particular, saying no, no, no, no, you can't do that, you can't recruit people that might have bad records, that might actually be a terrorist.
And I'm sorry, the CIA breaks laws for a living. And if we're going to be able to do -- really push that envelope, go right up to that edge, we've got to be able to get down and dirty and do our jobs, and we can't do that right now.
ENSOR (on camera): That means hiring people who have committed torture, murder, drug running, whatever, right?
MAHLE: And it means not being afraid to rub elbows with them too.
ENSOR: Neither of you are in the agency anymore. Do you have the impression that these things are changing, that they are getting down and dirty more now than they were when you were in the agency?
MORAN: I think, I'm gathering that I have less faith than Melissa does, that things are changing rapidly. When I left the agency, I didn't see any drastic changes. And my understanding from people who are still there is that it still is a big, plodding bureaucracy, and there still are a number of rules and regulations that at the end of the day preclude you from doing your job.
PASEMAN: We need to go back to the business of spying, and that means train somebody, give them the skills, give them the tools to spy, put them out there, support them, and leave them out there and let them do the hard work in the back alleys of the cities of the world.
ENSOR: And if something goes wrong?
PASEMAN: Then support the officers when things go wrong.
ENSOR: Otherwise they won't do...
PASEMAN: Otherwise you will wind up with a cadre of people who will not take the risk.
ENSOR: Does Washington have to be ready for some embarrassments if it's going to let case officers and station chiefs do their thing, collect more human intelligence?
MORAN: I think there's far less danger of free-for-all of rogue case officers out in the field than there is of continuing with the status quo, which is not gathering quality intelligence, because headquarters always puts the kabash on promising leads.
ENSOR (voice-over): The three ex-spies say the CIA should hire more Americans of Muslim origin, and it should put officers into foreign countries for a dozen years, rather than just a few. Above all, they say, the nation needs spies willing to do whatever it takes.
MAHLE: I'm not ashamed to have said, you know, I lie, cheat and steal on the behalf of the U.S. government. And I think that's the important part, it's on behalf of the U.S. government. I don't do it for my own personal aggrandizement or to get rich, or anything like that.
David Ensor, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: Changes at the CIA.
PHILLIPS: Yes. It's great stuff. David Ensor, terrific job.
HARRIS: Big changes in store for the Academy Awards this year.
PHILLIPS: Really? Do tell. I guess we're going to talk about sine actors that may not be going up on stage even if they win.
HARRIS: That's a big change.
PHILLIPS: And need to pay up. Britney Spears flexes some legal muscle, suing for almost $10 million in damages.
HARRIS: That's the only muscle she's flexing. And stop the cell phone spam. Uncle Sam puts spammers on notice.
(WEATHER REPORT)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: News across America now. Kyra, pay attention. You were asking about this.
PHILLIPS: That drives me nuts.
HARRIS: Yes, yes, a lot of folks, in Virginia.
PHILLIPS: It's silly looking.
HARRIS: They're calling it the droopy drawers bill. And it's really not a joke. A lawmaker is targeting the low-riding bagging and sagging pants. He wants to make it a crime for people that to wear pants around their knees, exposing their underwear...
PHILLIPS: It is a crime.
HARRIS: Yes, it's a crime, ought to be a law. The bill is going to Virginia's House for a vote. If passed, it would impose a $50 fine for anyone captured exposing their BVDs.
It's the homecoming they've been waiting for, 200 Marines return to San Diego, California, today to tears, kisses and hugs from their loved ones. They're from the 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing that's been serving in Iraq.
Now a homecoming of a different sort in Beantown, today. Thousands of screaming fans welcome the New England Patriots home from their Super Bowl victory. Fans are going crazy over this. Adults skipped work, and teens played hooky just to take part in the parade. The Academy Awards ceremony will have a slightly new look this year. With that and more, let's go to our entertainment correspondent Brooke Anderson in Los Angeles.
Hi, Brooke.
BROOKE ANDERSON, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Tony. You're right. It will look a bit different. We've got some new rules. In fact, some Academy Award winners will not be strutting their stuff, taking that traditional long walk down the Oscar aisle and up to the stage. Telecast producer Gil Cates announced yesterday he's cutting the walk for some of the winners, they will instead receive their Oscar trophies from a presenter in the audience.
This is being done, of course, to save time. Another Oscar change you'll see in the telecast, in some cases, all of the nominees in a single category will be invited up to the stage, and then the winner will be announced. Cates says he wants more of the nominees to be seen on television.
Now many of the contenders were seen at the Oscar luncheon in Beverly Hills yesterday, Hilary Swank, Jamie Foxx, Virginia Madsen, Cate Blanchett, and Alan Alda were among those on hand to feast on -- get this -- lobster topped with caviar. Mmm. But before the nominees broke bread together, they took time to chat about their nominations. Nominee Alan Alda, who turned 69 a couple days after the nominations were announced, says the recognition is encouraging.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALAN ALDA, ACADEMY AWARD NOMINEE: Even coming at this point in my life, it's very encouraging to me because I really am always trying to get better. And this, to me, is some acknowledgment that I have gotten better at what I'm trying to do. And it encourages me to go on for the next 40 or 50 years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Tony, the Oscars will be handed out February 27th.
HARRIS: Hey, Brooke, have you got a second? I've got a question for you. You have a second?
ANDERSON: Oh, I've got a second. For you, anytime.
HARRIS: OK. Appreciate it. You know, Britney Spears is making some news today. What's the deal with beloved Britney?
ANDERSON: Yes. Britney Spears is making some news. You may remember, Spears had to cancel her European tour last year due to a knee injury, Tony. Well, now she is suing eight insurance companies to pay for the losses she sustained, the money she didn't make from canceling the tour.
The companies rejected a $9.8 million claim Spears filed after the tour was canceled. They say Spears failed to tell them about a preexisting knee injury and surgery she had had less than five years earlier.
Well, Spears' lawsuit filed last week claims this was a minor omission on Spears' part, and that she is owed all that money.
All right. Moving now to "Sex and the City" star Kristin Davis, she's heading to the burbs in a new pilot for ABC called "Soccer Moms." It revolves around two desperate housewives, one of them played by Davis, who team up as private investigators.
Tony, no shortage of opportunity for these "Sex and the City" gals. All four of them are staying very busy post-"Sex and the City." We'll see more and more of them coming up.
HARRIS: They're still hot. They're just still hot. OK, Brooke, good to see you.
ANDERSON: They're very hot. You too.
HARRIS: Thank you. Brooke Anderson in Los Angeles.
(STOCK MARKET REPORT)
HARRIS: A controversial professor from the University of Colorado was supposed to give a speech tonight, but all of the controversy means it may not happen. Find out who is coming to his defense today.
PHILLIPS: Also ahead on LIVE FROM, families whose own kids suffer from depression rally around a teenager on trial for murder.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: "Now in the News," feeling their pain. President Bush promoting his economic agenda in Detroit, Michigan, today, a state that lost tens of thousands of manufacturing jobs during his first term. This half hour we'll tune in as the president helps celebrate Black History Month.
Repairing the rift, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is in France trying to reignite a friendship strained by war in Iraq. Speaking in Paris today she said the two nations share common values and must work together to promote freedom around the world.
And you're looking at something we rarely see. At the request of CNN and other TV networks, the U.S. Air force released video today showing Predator attacks on what the military says are insurgent positions in Iraq. The Predator is unmanned aircraft equipped with Hellfire missiles. It also has sensors which recorded these pictures.
Word today that there are no survivors from that crash of the passenger plane outside Afghanistan's capital last week. The plane crashed into a snow-covered mountain, making recovery operations extremely hazardous. One hundred and four were killed, including six Americans. The National Transportation Safety Board is sending a team in to help investigate the crash.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired February 8, 2005 - 14:29 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: "Now in the News," President Bush is off and running, promoting his controversial budget proposal to the American people. Today he told business leaders in Detroit the spending plan would bring discipline to government by cutting programs that aren't needed or don't meet their goals.
Turning the page, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, live pictures right now, meeting with the foreign minister of France. The country was one of the most vocal critics of the Iraq war. Speaking earlier in Paris, Rice said that it's time to turn away from the past disagreements and look forward to the future.
A handshake and a deal to stop fighting, that's what Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and Mahmoud Abbas are taking away from today's summit in Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt. Abbas agreed to order militant groups to stop attacking Israel. Israel says it would hand over five West Bank towns and release hundreds of Palestinian prisoners.
Pope John Paul II will not preside over Ash Wednesday's services tomorrow at the Vatican. A spokesperson says that the pope will be in the hospital until at least Thursday. He hasn't missed public Ash Wednesday prayers since becoming pope 27 years ago.
Glimpse inside the secret culture of the CIA. Three former operatives who spent more than 50 years combined living covert lives, well, they've written books about their experiences inside the spy agency.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Our national security correspondent David Ensor sits down with them to get a firsthand look at how they operated, recruited other spies, and survived some dangerous missions.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): We met at a bar not far from the CIA, once a popular hangout for the spy set. Both women were clandestine officers. Both have now written books, Melissa Mahle, an Arabic speaker with 14 years at the CIA, and Lindsay Moran, who spent five years with the agency, part of it in Southeastern Europe.
(on camera): Have either of you ever been to this bar before?
MELISSA MAHLE, AUTHOR, "DENIAL AND DECEPTION": This is my first time.
LINDSAY MORAN, AUTHOR, "BLOWING MY COVER": I have been here once.
ENSOR: OK, with others from the agency or...
MORAN: With one other colleague from the agency.
ENSOR: Is this the kind of setting in which a case officer might try to recruit agents?
MAHLE: I would bring somebody here and spend time with them. I don't think I would use this kind of a very intimate, closed-in setting for an actual recruitment pitch.
ENSOR: What sort of a setting would you look for, for that?
MAHLE: Well, I think that I would like to have someplace where there are not a lot of people and where I can speak more privately, because what if the person goes crazy on you?
MORAN: You want to be somewhere where if, as Melissa said, if the person goes crazy or makes a scene, it's not going to blow your cover.
ENSOR (voice-over): Floyd Paseman also knows something about recruiting spies. We visited him at his home outside Williamsburg, Virginia. Fluent in Chinese, author of a new book, Paseman is a decorated 34-year veteran.
(on camera): Was your life ever in danger as a CIA officer?
PASEMAN: Yes, it was on a number of occasions. I don't want to overdramatize it, but The Iranian intelligence service attempted to assassinate me on one of my assignments. They failed, as you can see.
ENSOR (voice-over): Their job was to go to dangerous places sometimes and try to recruit potentially dangerous people.
(on camera): You're an Arabic speaker, a specialist in the Arab world, but you're a blue-eyed blonde. Did that ever -- was that ever a problem for you?
MAHLE: No. Actually, I always found it to be an advantage.
(LAUGHTER)
ENSOR: Ah. How so?
MAHLE: The Arab male rather likes to sit down and talk to a blonde, blue-eyed woman and get to know her. And so I found them to be very welcoming to my efforts to spend some time with them. I've always found that once you say, no, I'm sorry, I'm not going to sleep with you, and that's not why I want to be your friend, then they are so bewildered and befuddled by all of that, you just have them wrapped around your little finger. You can take them anywhere you want to go from there.
ENSOR: But Lindsay Moran, who I also met for lunch earlier, told me it isn't always quite that easy.
MORAN: I knew plenty of women who did get themselves in uncomfortable situations, one woman who was being chased around a hotel room by a sort of libidinous Arab agent. That's a case where she obviously didn't do enough early on to establish the parameters of the relationship.
ENSOR (on camera): Did you ever change your appearance to blend in?
MAHLE: Oh, you betcha. When I wanted to go operational and effectively disappear, the best way to do that in the Middle East is put on a veil.
ENSOR: So you did that?
MAHLE: Oh, yes. And I'll tell you, the minute you put on the head scarf, you put on the big, black tent dress, you look just like every single Arab woman there. And in their culture, they won't look you in the eyes if you're veiled. They know that's rude. So you really do become invisible.
ENSOR (voice-over): Over the years the, CIA's training has changed somewhat, but all three trained to parachute into hostile territory. All three learned to shoot.
PASEMAN: I packed heat for quite a while.
ENSOR (on camera): Ever have to use it?
PASEMAN: Never did, thank God.
ENSOR: Did you ever run into any known terrorists?
MAHLE: Yasser Arafat. A lot of people considered him to be a terrorist. And he was somebody with whom that I met with and worked with.
Also, I had, you know, odd experiences, weird experiences of being in a restaurant seated the distance between you and me and looking over there and seeing Abu Abbas, the notorious mastermind behind the Achille Lauro hijacking, in which a U.S. citizen was killed. And that's up close and personal.
ENSOR: What did you do?
MAHLE: I had to go back and go through a very bureaucratic process of writing a cable and saying, hey, this guy, not only is he here; he's running around completely without concern of being caught.
ENSOR: Did anything come of it?
MAHLE: Absolutely nothing.
ENSOR: I have to ask you why you left. MAHLE: Complicated question, answer. A lot of it I can't talk about, because I have a very threatening letter from the CIA telling me that it's classified without actually telling me what part of it is classified.
But the bottom-line issue was that they didn't like a relationship that I had with a foreigner. And you know what? I was paid to go out and meet foreigners. And this is just one of the rules, again, that's wrong.
ENSOR: Was this something that would have happened to a man, too?
MAHLE: I don't believe so.
ENSOR: This is kind of an unusual situation. I'm sitting in a bar with two ladies who were spies for their country and have now -- and lived in a secret culture -- and have now written books about it. Are you outcasts from the CIA?
MAHLE: I would say it's a mixed bag.
(LAUGHTER)
MORAN: Definitely a mixed bag.
I certainly have lots of friends who are still there. I probably wouldn't show up here for happy hour.
(LAUGHTER)
MORAN: But I've heard mixed reactions, certainly, to my book, a lot of people who are extremely angered just by virtue of the fact that I wrote a book. And then a lot of people who say, you know, that's great, and you said a lot of things that need to be said.
ENSOR (voice-over): All three argue there are too many rules, too many limitations on CIA officers imposed from Washington. All argue for a back-to-basics approach to intelligence gathering in a post-9/11 world.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Well, what does that back-to-basics approach entail?
HARRIS: Part two of David Ensor's report is next. The agents say it may mean breaking some rules and taking more risks.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: So what's it like to go after the bad guys? Our national security correspondent David Ensor continues his fascinating look at the secretive lives of three former CIA spies.
PHILLIPS: They reveal some of the tricks of the trade and what they see as the agency's biggest weakness. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR (voice-over): Floyd Paseman was the spy who played in a band.
(on camera): "Everyone's Talking at Me?"
PASEMAN: Yes, sir.
ENSOR: Harry Nelson (ph)?
PASEMAN: Yes.
ENSOR: So guitar, spy, where did that fit in?
PASEMAN: Well, it's basically a tool.
ENSOR (voice-over): A tool that once got Paseman's band a gig at the Russian ambassador's residence. Target-rich environment for recruiting spies.
PASEMAN: Best tool I had in 35 years.
ENSOR (on camera): So this is what you used to recruit agents?
PASEMAN: Very helpful.
ENSOR: Music.
PASEMAN: Music.
ENSOR (voice-over): Music, says Paseman, or whatever it took.
PASEMAN: I've done everything from been a stamp collector to a model airplane, to running jogging clubs, all with the idea of running into a specific person that I felt might have access to secret information.
ENSOR: Paseman, as well as former CIA officers Lindsay Moran and Melissa Mahle say recruiting spies is a delicate dance that can take years, and far too often runs into interference from headquarters.
MORAN: When I tried to go after targets that were of relevance that might have had terrorist ties, I was actually discouraged from doing so.
MAHLE: I personally proposed an operation to penetrate a terrorist camp. Not an al Qaeda camp but a different terrorist camp, and I had deafening silence from headquarters, from Langley. Their response was, this is dangerous, and did you really consider how dangerous it was?
We have so many rules and regulations of what we can and cannot do. And those rules and regulations are there because the agency has been burned either by doing something wrong and then having a backlash from Congress, in particular, saying no, no, no, no, you can't do that, you can't recruit people that might have bad records, that might actually be a terrorist.
And I'm sorry, the CIA breaks laws for a living. And if we're going to be able to do -- really push that envelope, go right up to that edge, we've got to be able to get down and dirty and do our jobs, and we can't do that right now.
ENSOR (on camera): That means hiring people who have committed torture, murder, drug running, whatever, right?
MAHLE: And it means not being afraid to rub elbows with them too.
ENSOR: Neither of you are in the agency anymore. Do you have the impression that these things are changing, that they are getting down and dirty more now than they were when you were in the agency?
MORAN: I think, I'm gathering that I have less faith than Melissa does, that things are changing rapidly. When I left the agency, I didn't see any drastic changes. And my understanding from people who are still there is that it still is a big, plodding bureaucracy, and there still are a number of rules and regulations that at the end of the day preclude you from doing your job.
PASEMAN: We need to go back to the business of spying, and that means train somebody, give them the skills, give them the tools to spy, put them out there, support them, and leave them out there and let them do the hard work in the back alleys of the cities of the world.
ENSOR: And if something goes wrong?
PASEMAN: Then support the officers when things go wrong.
ENSOR: Otherwise they won't do...
PASEMAN: Otherwise you will wind up with a cadre of people who will not take the risk.
ENSOR: Does Washington have to be ready for some embarrassments if it's going to let case officers and station chiefs do their thing, collect more human intelligence?
MORAN: I think there's far less danger of free-for-all of rogue case officers out in the field than there is of continuing with the status quo, which is not gathering quality intelligence, because headquarters always puts the kabash on promising leads.
ENSOR (voice-over): The three ex-spies say the CIA should hire more Americans of Muslim origin, and it should put officers into foreign countries for a dozen years, rather than just a few. Above all, they say, the nation needs spies willing to do whatever it takes.
MAHLE: I'm not ashamed to have said, you know, I lie, cheat and steal on the behalf of the U.S. government. And I think that's the important part, it's on behalf of the U.S. government. I don't do it for my own personal aggrandizement or to get rich, or anything like that.
David Ensor, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: Changes at the CIA.
PHILLIPS: Yes. It's great stuff. David Ensor, terrific job.
HARRIS: Big changes in store for the Academy Awards this year.
PHILLIPS: Really? Do tell. I guess we're going to talk about sine actors that may not be going up on stage even if they win.
HARRIS: That's a big change.
PHILLIPS: And need to pay up. Britney Spears flexes some legal muscle, suing for almost $10 million in damages.
HARRIS: That's the only muscle she's flexing. And stop the cell phone spam. Uncle Sam puts spammers on notice.
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HARRIS: News across America now. Kyra, pay attention. You were asking about this.
PHILLIPS: That drives me nuts.
HARRIS: Yes, yes, a lot of folks, in Virginia.
PHILLIPS: It's silly looking.
HARRIS: They're calling it the droopy drawers bill. And it's really not a joke. A lawmaker is targeting the low-riding bagging and sagging pants. He wants to make it a crime for people that to wear pants around their knees, exposing their underwear...
PHILLIPS: It is a crime.
HARRIS: Yes, it's a crime, ought to be a law. The bill is going to Virginia's House for a vote. If passed, it would impose a $50 fine for anyone captured exposing their BVDs.
It's the homecoming they've been waiting for, 200 Marines return to San Diego, California, today to tears, kisses and hugs from their loved ones. They're from the 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing that's been serving in Iraq.
Now a homecoming of a different sort in Beantown, today. Thousands of screaming fans welcome the New England Patriots home from their Super Bowl victory. Fans are going crazy over this. Adults skipped work, and teens played hooky just to take part in the parade. The Academy Awards ceremony will have a slightly new look this year. With that and more, let's go to our entertainment correspondent Brooke Anderson in Los Angeles.
Hi, Brooke.
BROOKE ANDERSON, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Tony. You're right. It will look a bit different. We've got some new rules. In fact, some Academy Award winners will not be strutting their stuff, taking that traditional long walk down the Oscar aisle and up to the stage. Telecast producer Gil Cates announced yesterday he's cutting the walk for some of the winners, they will instead receive their Oscar trophies from a presenter in the audience.
This is being done, of course, to save time. Another Oscar change you'll see in the telecast, in some cases, all of the nominees in a single category will be invited up to the stage, and then the winner will be announced. Cates says he wants more of the nominees to be seen on television.
Now many of the contenders were seen at the Oscar luncheon in Beverly Hills yesterday, Hilary Swank, Jamie Foxx, Virginia Madsen, Cate Blanchett, and Alan Alda were among those on hand to feast on -- get this -- lobster topped with caviar. Mmm. But before the nominees broke bread together, they took time to chat about their nominations. Nominee Alan Alda, who turned 69 a couple days after the nominations were announced, says the recognition is encouraging.
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ALAN ALDA, ACADEMY AWARD NOMINEE: Even coming at this point in my life, it's very encouraging to me because I really am always trying to get better. And this, to me, is some acknowledgment that I have gotten better at what I'm trying to do. And it encourages me to go on for the next 40 or 50 years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Tony, the Oscars will be handed out February 27th.
HARRIS: Hey, Brooke, have you got a second? I've got a question for you. You have a second?
ANDERSON: Oh, I've got a second. For you, anytime.
HARRIS: OK. Appreciate it. You know, Britney Spears is making some news today. What's the deal with beloved Britney?
ANDERSON: Yes. Britney Spears is making some news. You may remember, Spears had to cancel her European tour last year due to a knee injury, Tony. Well, now she is suing eight insurance companies to pay for the losses she sustained, the money she didn't make from canceling the tour.
The companies rejected a $9.8 million claim Spears filed after the tour was canceled. They say Spears failed to tell them about a preexisting knee injury and surgery she had had less than five years earlier.
Well, Spears' lawsuit filed last week claims this was a minor omission on Spears' part, and that she is owed all that money.
All right. Moving now to "Sex and the City" star Kristin Davis, she's heading to the burbs in a new pilot for ABC called "Soccer Moms." It revolves around two desperate housewives, one of them played by Davis, who team up as private investigators.
Tony, no shortage of opportunity for these "Sex and the City" gals. All four of them are staying very busy post-"Sex and the City." We'll see more and more of them coming up.
HARRIS: They're still hot. They're just still hot. OK, Brooke, good to see you.
ANDERSON: They're very hot. You too.
HARRIS: Thank you. Brooke Anderson in Los Angeles.
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HARRIS: A controversial professor from the University of Colorado was supposed to give a speech tonight, but all of the controversy means it may not happen. Find out who is coming to his defense today.
PHILLIPS: Also ahead on LIVE FROM, families whose own kids suffer from depression rally around a teenager on trial for murder.
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PHILLIPS: "Now in the News," feeling their pain. President Bush promoting his economic agenda in Detroit, Michigan, today, a state that lost tens of thousands of manufacturing jobs during his first term. This half hour we'll tune in as the president helps celebrate Black History Month.
Repairing the rift, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is in France trying to reignite a friendship strained by war in Iraq. Speaking in Paris today she said the two nations share common values and must work together to promote freedom around the world.
And you're looking at something we rarely see. At the request of CNN and other TV networks, the U.S. Air force released video today showing Predator attacks on what the military says are insurgent positions in Iraq. The Predator is unmanned aircraft equipped with Hellfire missiles. It also has sensors which recorded these pictures.
Word today that there are no survivors from that crash of the passenger plane outside Afghanistan's capital last week. The plane crashed into a snow-covered mountain, making recovery operations extremely hazardous. One hundred and four were killed, including six Americans. The National Transportation Safety Board is sending a team in to help investigate the crash.
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