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Teen Found Guilty of Grandparents' Murder Despite Zoloft Defense; Michael Jackson Hospitalized for Flu, Jury Selection Delayed
Aired February 15, 2005 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUDGE STEPHEN NEEL, MIDDLESEX SUPERIOR COURT: It is difficult to imagine a more egregious misuse of trust and authority than that which occurred in this case.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KYRA PHILLIPS, CO-HOST: A former priest sentenced for repeatedly molesting a boy. New developments. We expect to hear from the priest's attorneys, live this hour.
Guilty. The verdict in the Zoloft murder trial is handed down. A boy accused of killing his grandparents while taking Zoloft now faces 30 years to life.
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Santa Maria, California, Michael Jackson is in the hospital. We'll fill you in on the very latest, coming up.
PHILLIPS: Did you forget the flowers, chunk the chocolate? If you're not feeling the love this day after Valentine's Day, ask Amy. That's right, columnist Amy Dickinson. She's got some advice for dealing with the disappointment.
From the CNN Center in Atlanta, Miles is miking up. I'm Kyra Phillips. CNN LIVE FROM starts right now.
We always knew who done it. We knew when, where and how the deed was done. And now a jury finds Zoloft had nothing to do with it.
The jury in Charleston, South Carolina, decided a short time ago that 15-year-old Christopher Pittman was in his right mind when he shot-gunned his grandparents and torched their home in 2001.
The defense argued that the young killer, just 12 at the time, was ambushed by chemicals, specifically the anti-depressant Zoloft.
But as you just saw live here, just a few minutes ago, jurors accepted the state's description of malice, meanness and wickedness.
CNN medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen followed this trial from the outset and joins us now with more on the verdict.
Elizabeth, are you surprised? ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, I have to say that many of us here are not surprised. We wouldn't have been too surprised the other way, but this seems more the verdict that many here thought the jury would arrive at this jury of nine women, three men.
They heard over and over again about how Christopher Pittman waited until his grandparents fell asleep, got a gun, went up, shot them, and reloaded, and how he then lit the house on fire, went into the car, packed up things like his dog, like the guns, and then blamed the murder on somebody else.
Now, what's interesting is that the prosecution over and over again talked about how they said this was planned, about how he thought up an excuse. He thought up a story about how somebody else did it. And that they said that that showed that he wasn't manic, he wasn't psychotic, as the defense attorneys were trying to paint him out to be. They said that he was a very clear-thinking young man and that he also, they said, was very angry.
His grandparents were disciplining him because he had acted out against another child the day before. And the grandparents said, "Look, if you don't straighten up, we're sending you back to your father in Florida." He did not want to go back to his father. And so the prosecutors said he was just angry. That's what happened. He was just angry. Well, the jury apparently agreed with that argument.
Now, the reaction in the court was very, very intense. His lawyer had tears in his eyes. Chris Pittman was just looking down, as he has been throughout most of this trial. Another lawyer had her arm around him.
His sister, Danielle, she's just 18 years old, she testified on his behalf. Said this drug made him very edgy, made him always walk around and feel like his skin was crawling. He was unable to basically control himself. And she just sat there in that courtroom. She cried and cried. She was shaking with her father's arms around her shoulder -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Elizabeth Cohen, live just outside the courthouse, thanks so much -- Miles.
MILES O'BRIEN, CO-HOST: Jurors could have found Pittman guilty but mentally ill or not guilty because of temporary insanity. While we wait on the sentencing, let's call on CNN legal analyst Kendall Coffey.
Kendall, what surprises have you seen, if any?
KENDALL COFFEY, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I don't think the verdict itself was a surprise, because no matter what the age, no matter what the rationale, the very way he took this crime, carried it out, step by step, waiting until they fell asleep, shooting each of them, four different shots in the head, point blank range. And then afterwards escaping, with guns, with his dog, with $33 stolen and an SUV. It may have been the action of a child, but it was clearly the crime of a premeditated murder.
O'BRIEN: Let's talk about precedent here for just a moment. We can think of a lot of cases where insanity has been the defense offered up. How many cases have you been that you can just recall off the top of your head, where it was the use of a chemical of some kind was part of the defense?
COFFEY: Well, only a few, and they're very rarely successful. In fact, Miles, insanity hardly ever works. As we know, back in the early 1980s after Hinckley was acquitted by reason of insanity for attempting to kill President Reagan, all the states, including South Carolina, changed laws and made insanity a very, very limited offense. It is effective in probably one percent or less of the crimes that are prosecuted in this country.
O'BRIEN: And the reason is -- that juries don't buy this offense typically is what? What do you think?
COFFEY: Well, the reason is, if the jury is following in instructions, the instructions give them very little room. It ties the jury's hands. Because somebody can be mentally ill; somebody can be impaired; somebody can be young and angry and really, really a troubled soul, but if they can tell the difference between right and wrong, if they know what they're doing is wrong, then in virtually every state, that's the end of it, that's guilty. And here we saw, it's a conviction for first-degree murder.
O'BRIEN: And I suppose, sitting there in that jury box, you might make an assumption that anybody in this case of course, the facts of the case not disputed, anybody who would do such a thing probably has some mental problems regardless, right?
COFFEY: Yes, it's true for most killers, virtually all child molesters, and the system today, Miles, doesn't care a whole lot about the perpetrator and what his or her individual characteristics are, so much as what happens to the victim. And from the standpoint of a victim, whether the killer is 50 or 12, the results are the same brutal tragedy.
O'BRIEN: All right. Former U.S. attorney and defense attorney, Kendall Coffey, joining us from Miami with his insights. We appreciate you joining us and being with us today.
COFFEY: Thanks.
O'BRIEN: Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Unfolding drama in Santa Maria, California. Michael Jackson makes a detour to the hospital on his way to the courthouse this morning. The diagnosis, flu.
CNN's Ted Rowlands was in court. He joins us now with more on how this is going to affect the jury selection, if at all -- Ted. ROWLANDS: Well, it is going to affect the proceedings here. Michael Jackson still hospitalized at this hour. Court has been adjourned for the entire week and will not be back in session until Tuesday. Monday is a holiday.
After a conference call with attending physician at the hospital in Santa Maria, where Jackson is, the judge came on to the bench and told the 100-plus prospective jurors that Mr. Jackson is suffering from a bad case of the flu. The judge said that the doctor estimated that Jackson would need three to four days to recover. So the judge said let's give him the rest of the week and the weekend, the long weekend, to recover.
The judge did a very good job, if you're looking at it from the defense perspective, of alleviating any tension in the courtroom. And making a few jokes and giving Mr. Jackson the benefit of the doubt throughout the proceeding.
There was a time where there was a major delay. Mr. Jackson was the only one missing in the courtroom. And there seemed to be some frustration amongst the jurors. But the judge came on the bench and explained the situation. And again, gave Jackson the benefit of the doubt.
At this point, he is at the hospital. An eyewitness at the hospital tells CNN that Jackson walked in under his own power, just shortly after 8:30. The caravan from Neverland detoured. Instead of taking a right to the courthouse, it went left to hospital. The hospital is just about a mile away here from the courthouse in Santa Maria.
So that's about it. Mr. Jackson suffering from the flu. No court for the rest of the week -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Ted Rowlands, thank you so much. In just a few minutes, more on that celebrity-heavy witness list in the Jackson case. Criminal defense lawyer Manny Arora joins us for more on the star-studded strategies.
Well, will Robert Blake be the leading man in his own defense? After seven weeks of evidence from prosecutors today, begins the defense case in Blake's murder trial and the prospect of the former tough guy actor on the witness stand.
As you know, Blake is charged with shooting the woman he married after learning she was carrying his child. As the state rested yesterday, Blake rushed sobbing from the courtroom after hearing tapes of himself professing love for his young daughter, Rosie.
O'BRIEN: The former Catholic priest who was convicted last week of child rape will very possibly die in prison. As you may have seen here live on CNN -- we hope so -- a judge in Boston sentenced Paul Shanley to 12 to 15 years for having molested a Sunday school student over a six-year period in the '80s.
Earlier today, prosecutors asked for a life sentence, and given Shanley's age, 74, that may be what he got.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NEEL: It is difficult to imagine a more egregious misuse of trust and authority than that which occurred in this case, where the defendant, a Roman Catholic priest at St. Jean's Church used his position to enable his sexual abuse on Sunday mornings of a young CCB student.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: Shanley was arrested in retirement after the victim's supposedly repressed memories resurfaced over all the publicity over sex abuse in the Boston archdiocese.
Well, he's eluded capture for years, but the U.S. Has a new tactic to try to capture Osama bin Laden: a TV ad. We'll show you the ad, and we'll tell you why some say it's missing the target audience.
Michael Jackson case, we'll talk with a defense attorney with some high-profile clients on his docket on how star power could help or maybe could hurt in that trial.
And reading, writing and righteousness? Some parents say a public school should lose its religious lessons.
ANNOUNCER: You're watching LIVE FROM on CNN, the most trusted name in news.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Well, while Michael Jackson's in the hospital with the flu, we want to take a look at the list of high-profile witnesses who may be called to testify for his defense, from Liz Taylor to CNN's own Larry king. What's up with the celebrity roll call? Well, the drama continues to unfold.
Criminal defense lawyer Manny Arora joins us now to talk about some -- the insight into the courtroom strategy. His firm has had its share of high-profile clients, including NFL player Ray Lewis, Atlanta Thrashers player Danny Heatley and many others. Of course, stories that we have covered.
Nice to have you here with us.
MANNY ARORA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE LAWYER: Thanks for having me.
PHILLIPS: Of course, we hear he goes to hospital with flu. This postpones everything. Is this a strategy?
ARORA: It's not a strategy. I mean, could you just imagine being on the receiving end in the courtroom, with these horrible charges. Then if you get a little sick, it magnifies everything a hundredfold. So I don't think there's anything to it. He's probably sick.
PHILLIPS: We know how stress can completely wipe out the immune system.
All right. Let's talk about this list of celebrities, character witnesses. He came out, or rather his lawyers came out with this just massive list. Look at all -- I mean, we can see the faces here.
Does this necessarily mean that every single one of these individuals has to come and say, "Yes, Michael Jackson's a great guy?" I mean, they have a choice here, whether they want to come to court or not, if called, right?
ARORA: Well, if you subpoena them, they have to come. But the issue is simply you're dealing with the biggest star of all right away. So if there's any star-struck issues, I don't think these other folks are really going to have much of an impact.
Also, the judge can decide how many character witness one will allow. And if they're just character witness, then you're talking about sort of fluff witnesses, and they don't really have much credibility and don't really make a difference.
If they were substantive witnesses, then, say, somebody that's a star may carry a little bit more credibility with you, say like a police officer might, because they're actually talking about something substantive that you can use and show that I did or didn't do it, one way or the other.
PHILLIPS: From your experience, when you have potential jurors, if somebody like an Ed Bradley -- for me, OK, Ed Bradley, I would think, "Oh, wow, Ed Bradley is going to say this person is a decent person, I'm going to really pay attention to this."
How much influence do big names truly have on potential jurors, in the end all?
ARORA: In our experience, they don't really have that much, because whether you have Ed Bradley or any of the basketball players or anybody else, how well do they really know Michael Jackson is the big -- anybody can come in and say, "Kyra, you're a wonderful person and I think you never would have done this stuff."
But when the prosecutor gets here, on cross-examination, they'll say, "Well, were you on his ranch at such and such a day? Did you know he had little boys in his bed, as the allegation's been made?" And you know, we'll have to see what those people say.
So the substantive, or the meat and potatoes of it, I don't think is going to carry much weight. It's just more of a drama, as it were, with this whole case.
PHILLIPS: Have you ever done it in any of your cases, thought, "I'm going to call in some high-profile names"?
ARORA: Well, we've used high-profile witnesses before, but generally it's for something substantive. Because I find that it really backfire on you. Because if you put all this stuff up, the jury anticipation is built up. And they simply just come in and says," He's a good guy."
"Well, how well did you know him?"
"Well, you know, I saw him three years ago one time when we did an interview."
It just doesn't have any weight and you look like a fool, and your credibility as a lawyer is lost at that point.
PHILLIPS: Is it unusual to come out with this list of names at this point?
ARORA: It's what we call the phone book method. Everybody comes out with every possible witness that they could have. It doesn't mean there's going to be 300 witnesses coming out. It's just sort of throwing it all out there, and see if they can get a reaction from any of the jurors in order to decide who should stay or not stay on the jury.
PHILLIPS: I'm curious. Do you want to be a part of this case? If you had the opportunity, if Michael Jackson would have called you and said, "Hey, would you defend me," would you do it?
ARORA: I'd probably do it. Can you imagine, it's a once in a lifetime type of case? I can't say -- the lawyers will be just as star-struck as the jurors, I'm sure, so we'll see.
PHILLIPS: Have you thought about it? Have you even thought about a possible strategy? Have you looked at these attorneys and thought, "Oh, bad move. I would have done this. I would have done that"?
ARORA: Well, it's easy to sort of look at these attorneys and say in hindsight, "Maybe I would have done this or that." But they're very confident people with long, established records. Just like when we handle some of our athletes, these guys could come back on the show and say, Well, Manny should have done this or done that." So, you know, everybody can second-guess.
PHILLIPS: Interesting. You'll follow the case with us and come back?
ARORA: Sure.
PHILLIPS: Terrific. Manny Arora, thank you so much.
We're going to take a quick break. More LIVE FROM right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Live pictures now, Charleston, North Carolina. Motions being entertained by the judge there as the jury in the case of Christopher Pittman, 15 years old, now considers his possible sentence. He faces up to 30 years in prison now, having been convicted of the murders of his grandparents. As we have been telling you, he used the rather novel defense, saying it was the Zoloft that made him do it, the anti-depressant drug Zoloft. We are awaiting word from the jury as it comes out with its recommendation on a sentence. As soon as it happens, we'll bring it to you live, of course.
News across America now to tell you about.
The loss of a daughter inspires a mother's personal appeal. The family of Heather Kiss joined medical experts in Washington today to urge an FDA investigation into ibuprofen. They claim two ibuprofen makers withheld critical safety information about the drug's dangers. They want warning labels on the common, over the counter painkiller. Heather, who had no known drug allergies, died after a severe reaction to children's Advil.
In Arkansas, Governor Mike Huckabee his wife go to bat for so- called covenant marriage before a crowd of thousands. They converted their 30-year marriage into a covenant union. Under covenant marriage law, couples agree to wait two years before divorce becomes final. Huckabee told the crowd he wants to promote marriage in a state with the nation's third highest divorce rate.
In the ongoing debate over the separation of church and state, an interesting situation in one Virginia school, drawing some attention. CNN's Tom Foreman on a public school in Stanton that allows students to take a break for Bible classes.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On a damp path behind McSwain Elementary School, the first graders are heading to a Baptist church.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We love him because he first loved us.
FOREMAN: For a half hour each week, first, second and third graders who sign up for weekday religious education, or WRE, are excused from class to learn about the Bible, morality.
ALEX OAKES, STUDENT: Well, some of the lessons that I learned from the Bible were stuff like Daniel and the lion's den, the birth of Jesus.
FOREMAN: Both of Andrea Oakes' girls went, along with 85 percent of their classmates, and she's astonished the program is under attack.
ANDREA OAKES, PARENT: I would like to think that, no, they're not attacking us because we are Christians; however, I cannot help but question whether or not that is the reason.
FOREMAN: In this strongly religious state, church groups pay for WRE, which about 12,000 students attend, and religious classes are not held on school property.
AMY DIDUCH, PARENT: Well, it really began at the beginning of this school year.
FOREMAN: But Amy Diduch is one of the minority of parents who want the school board to shut the program down anyway.
DIDUCH: I'm not opposed to a parent, on an individual basis, choosing to take a child out for religious instruction, but I am opposed to having the school day stop while those children are absent.
FOREMAN: Diduch and others say kids who do not take part are getting little or no instruction while others are in religion class and that sometimes children are ostracized for not going.
EDWARD SCOTT, STAUNTON CITY SCHOOL BOARD MEMBER: If the letters to the editors are to be believed at all to our local newspaper, then surely students have been stigmatized.
FOREMAN: Back at the church, the Oakes girls say they never saw any evidence of that.
JACLYN OAKES, RELIGIOUS EDUCATION GRADUATE: I don't think any of the kids in my classroom that were left behind got teased at all.
FOREMAN: And religion class organizers say the courts have long approved of such programs, as long as they remain separate from schools and parents can choose.
JACK HINTON, PRESIDENT, RELIGIOUS EDUCATION ASSOCIATION: The majority does not impose its will on any minority in this particular situation. It is a voluntary situation where you opt in or you opt out.
FOREMAN (on camera): Many of the opponents of the religious classes make a point of saying they are Christian, too. They just think that school time should be for traditional school studies.
(voice-over) But in the end, the school board voted overwhelmingly to keep the religion classes and try to figure out a better plan for what to do with the kids who don't participate.
Tom Foreman, CNN, Stanton, Virginia.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS (voice-over): Next on LIVE FROM, are men and women wired differently? We'll explore the mind-blowing science of gender and the brain.
Later on LIVE FROM, preserving our national treasures. We'll take you inside efforts to keep the Declaration of Independence from fading away.
Tomorrow on LIVE FROM, his real-life story of an FBI agent infiltrating the mob was told in the movie "Donnie Brasco." Now former agent Joe Pistone has another story to tell. JOE PISTONE, FORMER FBI AGENT: Obviously, I am a, you know, a thrill junky, an adrenaline junky.
PHILLIPS: The LIVE FROM interview with Joe Pistone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Nice hair.
PHILLIPS: You know what?
O'BRIEN: I like it.
PHILLIPS: You're so full of it.
O'BRIEN: No, I'm -- I like it.
PHILLIPS: It's a no-brainer that men and women are -- definitely behave differently.
O'BRIEN: Yes. I just said nice hair. Said something nice, and you took that wrong.
PHILLIPS: You never compliment me.
O'BRIEN: Men are from Mars; women are from Venus. There's a disconnect.
PHILLIPS: He never compliments me.
O'BRIEN: How much of that is due to actual brain differences? CNN medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen takes us inside the minds of the sexes. It's a scary place.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COHEN (voice-over): They notice it when they make dinner. They notice it when they walk the dog.
MICHAEL GURIAN, PSYCHOLOGIST/AUTHOR: There are about 100 identified structural differences between the male and female brain.
COHEN: Michael Gurian, psychologist and author of "What Could He Be Thinking?", and his wife, family therapist Gail Reed Gurian, say they notice all the time how differently their brains function. How he tends, when they're talking, to get right to point.
GURIAN: You're taking in all sorts of stuff. Whereas all I'm doing is I'm listening for what I think is the key variable and I hone right in on that. And that's really very male/female.
COHEN: When scientists look inside men's and women's brains, literally, with MRIs, they find a biological reason for this difference. Women in general have a larger corpus callosum. That's the area of the brain that handles communication between the two hemispheres. So the two sides talk better to each other. That's one theory as to why studies show women tend to multitask better.
GURIAN: The more female brain approach, gather a lot of material, gather a lot of information, feel a lot, hear a lot, sense a lot.
COHEN: MRIs show men, on the other hand, tend to move information more easily within each hemisphere.
GURIAN: Men, because we tend to compartmentalize our communication into a smaller part of the brain, we tend to be better at getting right to the issue.
COHEN: Scientists say many male/female brain differences are apparent even at a very young age. Males have more activity in mechanical centers of the brain and females in verbal and emotional centers. So give a girl a doll, she'll try to talk to it.
GURIAN: That doll becomes life-like to that girl. But you give it to the 2-year-old boy, you're more likely -- not all the time, but you're more likely than not try to see that boy try to take the head off the doll, or he thinks spatial mechanical. So he's using the doll as an object.
COHEN: and what accounts for these differences? Much of the answer lies in our genes. Women are born with two X chromosomes and men with an X and a Y.
DR. MARIANNE LEGATO, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: And on that Y chromosome are at least 21 unique genes, unique to males, which control many of the body's operations, down to the level of the cell.
COHEN: Dr. Marianne Legato says because of these genetic differences, men and women experience different symptoms when they're having a heart attack. And genes, not body size, are the reason men can drink more alcohol than women without becoming intoxicated.
LEGATO: Women do not have the enzyme in their stomach that degrades alcohol, which men have.
COHEN: Of course, there are many similarities between men and women mentally and physically, but scientists are learning all the time about the differences and what they mean.
Elizabeth Cohen, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: Well, are grumpy customers bad for the economy? One expert says yes.
PHILLIPS: David Haffenreffer, what do you say?
(STOCK MARKET REPORT)
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Aired February 15, 2005 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUDGE STEPHEN NEEL, MIDDLESEX SUPERIOR COURT: It is difficult to imagine a more egregious misuse of trust and authority than that which occurred in this case.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KYRA PHILLIPS, CO-HOST: A former priest sentenced for repeatedly molesting a boy. New developments. We expect to hear from the priest's attorneys, live this hour.
Guilty. The verdict in the Zoloft murder trial is handed down. A boy accused of killing his grandparents while taking Zoloft now faces 30 years to life.
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Santa Maria, California, Michael Jackson is in the hospital. We'll fill you in on the very latest, coming up.
PHILLIPS: Did you forget the flowers, chunk the chocolate? If you're not feeling the love this day after Valentine's Day, ask Amy. That's right, columnist Amy Dickinson. She's got some advice for dealing with the disappointment.
From the CNN Center in Atlanta, Miles is miking up. I'm Kyra Phillips. CNN LIVE FROM starts right now.
We always knew who done it. We knew when, where and how the deed was done. And now a jury finds Zoloft had nothing to do with it.
The jury in Charleston, South Carolina, decided a short time ago that 15-year-old Christopher Pittman was in his right mind when he shot-gunned his grandparents and torched their home in 2001.
The defense argued that the young killer, just 12 at the time, was ambushed by chemicals, specifically the anti-depressant Zoloft.
But as you just saw live here, just a few minutes ago, jurors accepted the state's description of malice, meanness and wickedness.
CNN medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen followed this trial from the outset and joins us now with more on the verdict.
Elizabeth, are you surprised? ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, I have to say that many of us here are not surprised. We wouldn't have been too surprised the other way, but this seems more the verdict that many here thought the jury would arrive at this jury of nine women, three men.
They heard over and over again about how Christopher Pittman waited until his grandparents fell asleep, got a gun, went up, shot them, and reloaded, and how he then lit the house on fire, went into the car, packed up things like his dog, like the guns, and then blamed the murder on somebody else.
Now, what's interesting is that the prosecution over and over again talked about how they said this was planned, about how he thought up an excuse. He thought up a story about how somebody else did it. And that they said that that showed that he wasn't manic, he wasn't psychotic, as the defense attorneys were trying to paint him out to be. They said that he was a very clear-thinking young man and that he also, they said, was very angry.
His grandparents were disciplining him because he had acted out against another child the day before. And the grandparents said, "Look, if you don't straighten up, we're sending you back to your father in Florida." He did not want to go back to his father. And so the prosecutors said he was just angry. That's what happened. He was just angry. Well, the jury apparently agreed with that argument.
Now, the reaction in the court was very, very intense. His lawyer had tears in his eyes. Chris Pittman was just looking down, as he has been throughout most of this trial. Another lawyer had her arm around him.
His sister, Danielle, she's just 18 years old, she testified on his behalf. Said this drug made him very edgy, made him always walk around and feel like his skin was crawling. He was unable to basically control himself. And she just sat there in that courtroom. She cried and cried. She was shaking with her father's arms around her shoulder -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Elizabeth Cohen, live just outside the courthouse, thanks so much -- Miles.
MILES O'BRIEN, CO-HOST: Jurors could have found Pittman guilty but mentally ill or not guilty because of temporary insanity. While we wait on the sentencing, let's call on CNN legal analyst Kendall Coffey.
Kendall, what surprises have you seen, if any?
KENDALL COFFEY, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I don't think the verdict itself was a surprise, because no matter what the age, no matter what the rationale, the very way he took this crime, carried it out, step by step, waiting until they fell asleep, shooting each of them, four different shots in the head, point blank range. And then afterwards escaping, with guns, with his dog, with $33 stolen and an SUV. It may have been the action of a child, but it was clearly the crime of a premeditated murder.
O'BRIEN: Let's talk about precedent here for just a moment. We can think of a lot of cases where insanity has been the defense offered up. How many cases have you been that you can just recall off the top of your head, where it was the use of a chemical of some kind was part of the defense?
COFFEY: Well, only a few, and they're very rarely successful. In fact, Miles, insanity hardly ever works. As we know, back in the early 1980s after Hinckley was acquitted by reason of insanity for attempting to kill President Reagan, all the states, including South Carolina, changed laws and made insanity a very, very limited offense. It is effective in probably one percent or less of the crimes that are prosecuted in this country.
O'BRIEN: And the reason is -- that juries don't buy this offense typically is what? What do you think?
COFFEY: Well, the reason is, if the jury is following in instructions, the instructions give them very little room. It ties the jury's hands. Because somebody can be mentally ill; somebody can be impaired; somebody can be young and angry and really, really a troubled soul, but if they can tell the difference between right and wrong, if they know what they're doing is wrong, then in virtually every state, that's the end of it, that's guilty. And here we saw, it's a conviction for first-degree murder.
O'BRIEN: And I suppose, sitting there in that jury box, you might make an assumption that anybody in this case of course, the facts of the case not disputed, anybody who would do such a thing probably has some mental problems regardless, right?
COFFEY: Yes, it's true for most killers, virtually all child molesters, and the system today, Miles, doesn't care a whole lot about the perpetrator and what his or her individual characteristics are, so much as what happens to the victim. And from the standpoint of a victim, whether the killer is 50 or 12, the results are the same brutal tragedy.
O'BRIEN: All right. Former U.S. attorney and defense attorney, Kendall Coffey, joining us from Miami with his insights. We appreciate you joining us and being with us today.
COFFEY: Thanks.
O'BRIEN: Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Unfolding drama in Santa Maria, California. Michael Jackson makes a detour to the hospital on his way to the courthouse this morning. The diagnosis, flu.
CNN's Ted Rowlands was in court. He joins us now with more on how this is going to affect the jury selection, if at all -- Ted. ROWLANDS: Well, it is going to affect the proceedings here. Michael Jackson still hospitalized at this hour. Court has been adjourned for the entire week and will not be back in session until Tuesday. Monday is a holiday.
After a conference call with attending physician at the hospital in Santa Maria, where Jackson is, the judge came on to the bench and told the 100-plus prospective jurors that Mr. Jackson is suffering from a bad case of the flu. The judge said that the doctor estimated that Jackson would need three to four days to recover. So the judge said let's give him the rest of the week and the weekend, the long weekend, to recover.
The judge did a very good job, if you're looking at it from the defense perspective, of alleviating any tension in the courtroom. And making a few jokes and giving Mr. Jackson the benefit of the doubt throughout the proceeding.
There was a time where there was a major delay. Mr. Jackson was the only one missing in the courtroom. And there seemed to be some frustration amongst the jurors. But the judge came on the bench and explained the situation. And again, gave Jackson the benefit of the doubt.
At this point, he is at the hospital. An eyewitness at the hospital tells CNN that Jackson walked in under his own power, just shortly after 8:30. The caravan from Neverland detoured. Instead of taking a right to the courthouse, it went left to hospital. The hospital is just about a mile away here from the courthouse in Santa Maria.
So that's about it. Mr. Jackson suffering from the flu. No court for the rest of the week -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Ted Rowlands, thank you so much. In just a few minutes, more on that celebrity-heavy witness list in the Jackson case. Criminal defense lawyer Manny Arora joins us for more on the star-studded strategies.
Well, will Robert Blake be the leading man in his own defense? After seven weeks of evidence from prosecutors today, begins the defense case in Blake's murder trial and the prospect of the former tough guy actor on the witness stand.
As you know, Blake is charged with shooting the woman he married after learning she was carrying his child. As the state rested yesterday, Blake rushed sobbing from the courtroom after hearing tapes of himself professing love for his young daughter, Rosie.
O'BRIEN: The former Catholic priest who was convicted last week of child rape will very possibly die in prison. As you may have seen here live on CNN -- we hope so -- a judge in Boston sentenced Paul Shanley to 12 to 15 years for having molested a Sunday school student over a six-year period in the '80s.
Earlier today, prosecutors asked for a life sentence, and given Shanley's age, 74, that may be what he got.
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NEEL: It is difficult to imagine a more egregious misuse of trust and authority than that which occurred in this case, where the defendant, a Roman Catholic priest at St. Jean's Church used his position to enable his sexual abuse on Sunday mornings of a young CCB student.
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O'BRIEN: Shanley was arrested in retirement after the victim's supposedly repressed memories resurfaced over all the publicity over sex abuse in the Boston archdiocese.
Well, he's eluded capture for years, but the U.S. Has a new tactic to try to capture Osama bin Laden: a TV ad. We'll show you the ad, and we'll tell you why some say it's missing the target audience.
Michael Jackson case, we'll talk with a defense attorney with some high-profile clients on his docket on how star power could help or maybe could hurt in that trial.
And reading, writing and righteousness? Some parents say a public school should lose its religious lessons.
ANNOUNCER: You're watching LIVE FROM on CNN, the most trusted name in news.
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PHILLIPS: Well, while Michael Jackson's in the hospital with the flu, we want to take a look at the list of high-profile witnesses who may be called to testify for his defense, from Liz Taylor to CNN's own Larry king. What's up with the celebrity roll call? Well, the drama continues to unfold.
Criminal defense lawyer Manny Arora joins us now to talk about some -- the insight into the courtroom strategy. His firm has had its share of high-profile clients, including NFL player Ray Lewis, Atlanta Thrashers player Danny Heatley and many others. Of course, stories that we have covered.
Nice to have you here with us.
MANNY ARORA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE LAWYER: Thanks for having me.
PHILLIPS: Of course, we hear he goes to hospital with flu. This postpones everything. Is this a strategy?
ARORA: It's not a strategy. I mean, could you just imagine being on the receiving end in the courtroom, with these horrible charges. Then if you get a little sick, it magnifies everything a hundredfold. So I don't think there's anything to it. He's probably sick.
PHILLIPS: We know how stress can completely wipe out the immune system.
All right. Let's talk about this list of celebrities, character witnesses. He came out, or rather his lawyers came out with this just massive list. Look at all -- I mean, we can see the faces here.
Does this necessarily mean that every single one of these individuals has to come and say, "Yes, Michael Jackson's a great guy?" I mean, they have a choice here, whether they want to come to court or not, if called, right?
ARORA: Well, if you subpoena them, they have to come. But the issue is simply you're dealing with the biggest star of all right away. So if there's any star-struck issues, I don't think these other folks are really going to have much of an impact.
Also, the judge can decide how many character witness one will allow. And if they're just character witness, then you're talking about sort of fluff witnesses, and they don't really have much credibility and don't really make a difference.
If they were substantive witnesses, then, say, somebody that's a star may carry a little bit more credibility with you, say like a police officer might, because they're actually talking about something substantive that you can use and show that I did or didn't do it, one way or the other.
PHILLIPS: From your experience, when you have potential jurors, if somebody like an Ed Bradley -- for me, OK, Ed Bradley, I would think, "Oh, wow, Ed Bradley is going to say this person is a decent person, I'm going to really pay attention to this."
How much influence do big names truly have on potential jurors, in the end all?
ARORA: In our experience, they don't really have that much, because whether you have Ed Bradley or any of the basketball players or anybody else, how well do they really know Michael Jackson is the big -- anybody can come in and say, "Kyra, you're a wonderful person and I think you never would have done this stuff."
But when the prosecutor gets here, on cross-examination, they'll say, "Well, were you on his ranch at such and such a day? Did you know he had little boys in his bed, as the allegation's been made?" And you know, we'll have to see what those people say.
So the substantive, or the meat and potatoes of it, I don't think is going to carry much weight. It's just more of a drama, as it were, with this whole case.
PHILLIPS: Have you ever done it in any of your cases, thought, "I'm going to call in some high-profile names"?
ARORA: Well, we've used high-profile witnesses before, but generally it's for something substantive. Because I find that it really backfire on you. Because if you put all this stuff up, the jury anticipation is built up. And they simply just come in and says," He's a good guy."
"Well, how well did you know him?"
"Well, you know, I saw him three years ago one time when we did an interview."
It just doesn't have any weight and you look like a fool, and your credibility as a lawyer is lost at that point.
PHILLIPS: Is it unusual to come out with this list of names at this point?
ARORA: It's what we call the phone book method. Everybody comes out with every possible witness that they could have. It doesn't mean there's going to be 300 witnesses coming out. It's just sort of throwing it all out there, and see if they can get a reaction from any of the jurors in order to decide who should stay or not stay on the jury.
PHILLIPS: I'm curious. Do you want to be a part of this case? If you had the opportunity, if Michael Jackson would have called you and said, "Hey, would you defend me," would you do it?
ARORA: I'd probably do it. Can you imagine, it's a once in a lifetime type of case? I can't say -- the lawyers will be just as star-struck as the jurors, I'm sure, so we'll see.
PHILLIPS: Have you thought about it? Have you even thought about a possible strategy? Have you looked at these attorneys and thought, "Oh, bad move. I would have done this. I would have done that"?
ARORA: Well, it's easy to sort of look at these attorneys and say in hindsight, "Maybe I would have done this or that." But they're very confident people with long, established records. Just like when we handle some of our athletes, these guys could come back on the show and say, Well, Manny should have done this or done that." So, you know, everybody can second-guess.
PHILLIPS: Interesting. You'll follow the case with us and come back?
ARORA: Sure.
PHILLIPS: Terrific. Manny Arora, thank you so much.
We're going to take a quick break. More LIVE FROM right after this.
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O'BRIEN: Live pictures now, Charleston, North Carolina. Motions being entertained by the judge there as the jury in the case of Christopher Pittman, 15 years old, now considers his possible sentence. He faces up to 30 years in prison now, having been convicted of the murders of his grandparents. As we have been telling you, he used the rather novel defense, saying it was the Zoloft that made him do it, the anti-depressant drug Zoloft. We are awaiting word from the jury as it comes out with its recommendation on a sentence. As soon as it happens, we'll bring it to you live, of course.
News across America now to tell you about.
The loss of a daughter inspires a mother's personal appeal. The family of Heather Kiss joined medical experts in Washington today to urge an FDA investigation into ibuprofen. They claim two ibuprofen makers withheld critical safety information about the drug's dangers. They want warning labels on the common, over the counter painkiller. Heather, who had no known drug allergies, died after a severe reaction to children's Advil.
In Arkansas, Governor Mike Huckabee his wife go to bat for so- called covenant marriage before a crowd of thousands. They converted their 30-year marriage into a covenant union. Under covenant marriage law, couples agree to wait two years before divorce becomes final. Huckabee told the crowd he wants to promote marriage in a state with the nation's third highest divorce rate.
In the ongoing debate over the separation of church and state, an interesting situation in one Virginia school, drawing some attention. CNN's Tom Foreman on a public school in Stanton that allows students to take a break for Bible classes.
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TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On a damp path behind McSwain Elementary School, the first graders are heading to a Baptist church.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We love him because he first loved us.
FOREMAN: For a half hour each week, first, second and third graders who sign up for weekday religious education, or WRE, are excused from class to learn about the Bible, morality.
ALEX OAKES, STUDENT: Well, some of the lessons that I learned from the Bible were stuff like Daniel and the lion's den, the birth of Jesus.
FOREMAN: Both of Andrea Oakes' girls went, along with 85 percent of their classmates, and she's astonished the program is under attack.
ANDREA OAKES, PARENT: I would like to think that, no, they're not attacking us because we are Christians; however, I cannot help but question whether or not that is the reason.
FOREMAN: In this strongly religious state, church groups pay for WRE, which about 12,000 students attend, and religious classes are not held on school property.
AMY DIDUCH, PARENT: Well, it really began at the beginning of this school year.
FOREMAN: But Amy Diduch is one of the minority of parents who want the school board to shut the program down anyway.
DIDUCH: I'm not opposed to a parent, on an individual basis, choosing to take a child out for religious instruction, but I am opposed to having the school day stop while those children are absent.
FOREMAN: Diduch and others say kids who do not take part are getting little or no instruction while others are in religion class and that sometimes children are ostracized for not going.
EDWARD SCOTT, STAUNTON CITY SCHOOL BOARD MEMBER: If the letters to the editors are to be believed at all to our local newspaper, then surely students have been stigmatized.
FOREMAN: Back at the church, the Oakes girls say they never saw any evidence of that.
JACLYN OAKES, RELIGIOUS EDUCATION GRADUATE: I don't think any of the kids in my classroom that were left behind got teased at all.
FOREMAN: And religion class organizers say the courts have long approved of such programs, as long as they remain separate from schools and parents can choose.
JACK HINTON, PRESIDENT, RELIGIOUS EDUCATION ASSOCIATION: The majority does not impose its will on any minority in this particular situation. It is a voluntary situation where you opt in or you opt out.
FOREMAN (on camera): Many of the opponents of the religious classes make a point of saying they are Christian, too. They just think that school time should be for traditional school studies.
(voice-over) But in the end, the school board voted overwhelmingly to keep the religion classes and try to figure out a better plan for what to do with the kids who don't participate.
Tom Foreman, CNN, Stanton, Virginia.
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PHILLIPS (voice-over): Next on LIVE FROM, are men and women wired differently? We'll explore the mind-blowing science of gender and the brain.
Later on LIVE FROM, preserving our national treasures. We'll take you inside efforts to keep the Declaration of Independence from fading away.
Tomorrow on LIVE FROM, his real-life story of an FBI agent infiltrating the mob was told in the movie "Donnie Brasco." Now former agent Joe Pistone has another story to tell. JOE PISTONE, FORMER FBI AGENT: Obviously, I am a, you know, a thrill junky, an adrenaline junky.
PHILLIPS: The LIVE FROM interview with Joe Pistone.
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O'BRIEN: Nice hair.
PHILLIPS: You know what?
O'BRIEN: I like it.
PHILLIPS: You're so full of it.
O'BRIEN: No, I'm -- I like it.
PHILLIPS: It's a no-brainer that men and women are -- definitely behave differently.
O'BRIEN: Yes. I just said nice hair. Said something nice, and you took that wrong.
PHILLIPS: You never compliment me.
O'BRIEN: Men are from Mars; women are from Venus. There's a disconnect.
PHILLIPS: He never compliments me.
O'BRIEN: How much of that is due to actual brain differences? CNN medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen takes us inside the minds of the sexes. It's a scary place.
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COHEN (voice-over): They notice it when they make dinner. They notice it when they walk the dog.
MICHAEL GURIAN, PSYCHOLOGIST/AUTHOR: There are about 100 identified structural differences between the male and female brain.
COHEN: Michael Gurian, psychologist and author of "What Could He Be Thinking?", and his wife, family therapist Gail Reed Gurian, say they notice all the time how differently their brains function. How he tends, when they're talking, to get right to point.
GURIAN: You're taking in all sorts of stuff. Whereas all I'm doing is I'm listening for what I think is the key variable and I hone right in on that. And that's really very male/female.
COHEN: When scientists look inside men's and women's brains, literally, with MRIs, they find a biological reason for this difference. Women in general have a larger corpus callosum. That's the area of the brain that handles communication between the two hemispheres. So the two sides talk better to each other. That's one theory as to why studies show women tend to multitask better.
GURIAN: The more female brain approach, gather a lot of material, gather a lot of information, feel a lot, hear a lot, sense a lot.
COHEN: MRIs show men, on the other hand, tend to move information more easily within each hemisphere.
GURIAN: Men, because we tend to compartmentalize our communication into a smaller part of the brain, we tend to be better at getting right to the issue.
COHEN: Scientists say many male/female brain differences are apparent even at a very young age. Males have more activity in mechanical centers of the brain and females in verbal and emotional centers. So give a girl a doll, she'll try to talk to it.
GURIAN: That doll becomes life-like to that girl. But you give it to the 2-year-old boy, you're more likely -- not all the time, but you're more likely than not try to see that boy try to take the head off the doll, or he thinks spatial mechanical. So he's using the doll as an object.
COHEN: and what accounts for these differences? Much of the answer lies in our genes. Women are born with two X chromosomes and men with an X and a Y.
DR. MARIANNE LEGATO, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: And on that Y chromosome are at least 21 unique genes, unique to males, which control many of the body's operations, down to the level of the cell.
COHEN: Dr. Marianne Legato says because of these genetic differences, men and women experience different symptoms when they're having a heart attack. And genes, not body size, are the reason men can drink more alcohol than women without becoming intoxicated.
LEGATO: Women do not have the enzyme in their stomach that degrades alcohol, which men have.
COHEN: Of course, there are many similarities between men and women mentally and physically, but scientists are learning all the time about the differences and what they mean.
Elizabeth Cohen, CNN, Atlanta.
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O'BRIEN: Well, are grumpy customers bad for the economy? One expert says yes.
PHILLIPS: David Haffenreffer, what do you say?
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