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Pollution Perils; Taxed by the Mile?; Rumsfeld Speaks

Aired February 16, 2005 - 13:31   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Getting a dose of discussion, members of the FDA meeting today in Washington with government official, doctors, researchers and the public, they all meet and talk about the safety of popular prescription painkillers like Vioxx, Celebrex and Bextra, and whether they were put on the market before adequate testing.
If the deal is OK'd, it'll make history. An Arizona businessman, Reggie Fowler, will become the NFL's first black team owner. Fowler has agreed buy the Minnesota Vikings franchise, and bring more than bucks to the table. He briefly played for the NFL's Cincinatti Bengals.

Two cyclones tearing through the South Pacific. Cyclone Olaf is battering American Samoa. Wind gusts as high as 190 miles per hour. Samoa's capital is shut down and people have moved to higher ground. Another cyclone, Nancy, has weakened after pummeling the Cook Island.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, you won't feel it or see it, but starting today, much of the world is changing the way it uses energy. Eight years after it was drafted the Kyoto Global Warming Pact goes into force today. One-hundred and forty nations, not including the U.S., are part of the plan to cap emissions of so-called greenhouse gases that trap heat and have gradually warmed the planet.

Over the past few months I've seen a lot of evidence of global warming at the far reaches of the world. In November, I traveled to the north slope of Alaska, spent some time with Idaqid (ph) whalers, and fisherman and hunters who rely on winter ice to hunt their prey. But the ice comes later, melts earlier and is thinner these days.

Also, in the fall, our team to Churchill (ph), Manitoba, polar bear capital of the world, similarly story there. The bears are nature's binge eaters, spending the winter on the ice of Hudson Bay eating, and then they fast for the remainder of the year on dry land when it has melted. But the ice there is on Hudson Bay three weeks less than it was 30 years ago. That means the bears are skinnier, not as healthy, although these guys look good. They're constantly rummaging for food in the town of Churchill. The question is, how long can they last before there's not enough food for them?

Finally, I just flew in from the South Pacific, and boy, are my arms tired. The tiny low-lying nation of Tuvulo (ph), it's a coral atoll, it's barely above sea level as it is, and as the earth heats up, the glaciers melt, seas expand. The rising sea imperils this nation of 11,000. There's good reason to believe Tuvolo as a nation would be wiped off the map in 50 years time. People there are angry at the U.S. and the Australian government, both of which have reviewed to sign on to Kyoto, whose goal is to reduce emissions of greenhouse gases to 1990 levels. Both nations believe such restraints on energy use will hinder their economies and mean a loss of jobs.

But supporters of the treaty say something needs to be done to stop climate change, and Kyoto is a start, and that capping emissions might create whole new clean energy industries. In any case, all of this will be distilled into a special "CNN PRESENTS" which we are calling "Melting Point: Global Warming Threat," which airs Sunday, March 27th, at 8:00 p.m. Eastern. We invite you to set your TiVo now.

PHILLIPS: I'm going to watch it live.

O'BRIEN: Can you read now?

PHILLIPS: I think I'm okay. I'm getting so (INAUDIBLE) over your special, I was choked up. Sorry.

O'BRIEN: Yes, well, just let me know if you want my help, I'm here for you.

PHILLIPS: All right, well have you ditched your gas his guzzler for a more fuel-efficient car? If so, it could come back to bite you. Yes, it could. California is losing some big-time bucks in the form of gasoline taxes, and so the state is apparently considering an idea to make drivers pay for every mile they drive instead.

Ross Palombo from CNN affiliate KRON has the taxing details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're becoming more and more popular.

ROSS PALOMBO, KRON REPORTER (voice-over): It was designed to help you locate destinations, but now it may help the DMV locate you. Published reports say new state DMV director is thinking of rolling out a plan that would put brakes on the gas tax and instead tax drivers by the mile.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's basically like having a surveillance structure in place.

PALOMBO: The Electronic Frontier Foundation says the state might use tracking devices to download mileage directly from your car.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who keeps that data? And second of all, how long is it kept?

PALOMBO: Creating a potential for abuse every mile along the way.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's almost as if we're all being treated like potential criminals, and our records could be subpoenaed at anytime.

PALOMBO: Driving this possible change, cars with greater fuel efficiency.

For every gallon of gas pumped, 18 cents pours into state coffers. But since new fuel-efficient cars have been using less gas, less money is now coming in. By some estimate, slowing state revenues down 8 percent, while actual miles driven has accelerated 16 percent.

Honda driver Dedra Demming (ph) could e paying less tax, while someone driving an SUV the same distance is paying more. Basing the tax on mileage would ensure they pay the same.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's not fair.

PALOMBO: Some say it is. Since the money goes to repair roads worn out one mile at a time. Others say it goes too far, potentially allowing the state to drive off with private rights.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it should just stay the way it is. It's definitely an invasion of your privacy.

PALOMBO: Well, you'll be safe at the pumps for a little while longer. For any major change like this to go into effect, first the entire state legislature would have to approve it. In San Francisco, I'm Ross Palombo, KRON 4 News.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: Java junkies rejoice. It look like your daily fix can help fight certain cancers according to medical experts. We're going to talk about that straight ahead.

O'BRIEN: So if it fights cancer, when you have seven cups, that's seven times more cancer-fighting power, right? Let's hope not.

O'BRIEN: All right, and forget about it! You know him as Donnie Brasco, and now the man behind the movie and book. He's got a book. Bada-bing, bada-bo, LIVE FROM interview is coming up. If you don't watch, we'll break your knees.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Live to Capitol Hill now. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld speaking to reporters as he gets ready to head into the Senate Appropriations Committee to discuss that $81.9 billion in emergency funds for war efforts. Let's listen in.

(EVENT IN PROGRESS)

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: ... to do the kinds of things that we've seen done in four, five, six countries around the world in the last two and a half years. And we still have a big job to do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:: Mr. Secretary, you mentioned in there that you still don't really have much faith in the numbers that you're getting from the CIA or the DIA on the level of the insurgency. I mean, is it safe to say that you're still, this late point in the conflict, you're still dissatisfied in getting bad intelligence in Iraq? And also, the DCI says you're getting close to signing a memorandum on...

RUMSFELD: Let's do them one at a time. I have not seen the paper that you're referring to with respect to memorandum. It hasn't come to me yet. It's been -- it's staff level. Until I have a chance to read it, think about it and discuss it with him, it's -- and you haven't seen it either, have you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, sir.

RUMSFELD: So it's very much an open question. The intelligence -- I don't mean to be dismissive of it. People are doing the best that can be done. The fact is that people disagree. You heard the discussion in the committee. The Iraqi that they quoted have a number, others have numbers. We've seen the DIA and CIA and other pieces of our intelligence community analyze it.

It's not clear to me the number is the overriding, important thing. For one thing it changes from time to time, the size of these various groups, the former regime elements. It may change from time to time. To the extent -- certainly, the Zarqawi forces, the jihadists, change from time to time. And frankly, to the extent we can put pressure on their money, they're less able to hire criminals to participate with them in these various activities.

So the problem, the size of the problem, is one thing. The lethality of it is quite a different thing. The nature of it and the quality of it is different, the quality of it. The Zarqawi group within that problem group of the insurgency clearly is the smallest. It's clearly the most lethal. So wrong numbers don't -- I don't -- I don't think the issue is being cast quite right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Isn't that emblematic that you can't even come up with a firm number with all these intelligence communities? Isn't that emblematic of fact we haven't been able to nail down our intelligence in that region, even with all the troops?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Actually, let me just say -- he's talking about a series of shadowy networks, which don't take roll call and have no permanent, cohesive records. It's not unusual at all and you've got different estimates of the size of those forces.

RUMSFELD: And that's been true probably of most insurgencies in history where the numbers have moved around and people have different opinions of it and they've come and grown and shrunk depending on circumstances. I don't think it's unusual.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: General, I wanted to follow up on a question, a comment you made in response to about, there was a problem in Iran or North Korea or somewhere else in the world. You mentioned that you have to shift, perhaps airlift capacity to get -- as an example, and go back into reserve and guards who have been already deployed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Possibly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Possibly. Could you further elaborate on that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, no, the only thing I can say is the question was -- the U.S. military has other responsibilities in the world. And there's -- the whole defense strategy that we have to fulfill. My comment was we can do that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, if you do it still in a way -- like you said, more quickly and ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely,. There's no question on our ability to fulfill the defense strategy, as was articulated in last year's defense review. You bet.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks, folks. Let Mr. Dorita (ph) have the question here, we'll leave...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My question is, can you leave now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, thank you, folks. Appreciate it.

PHILLIPS: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld there, with Joint Chiefs of Staff Richard Myers. Getting ready -- initially, I was told, it was the Senate Appropriations Committee. Now I'm saying it's that it's the Senate Armed Services Committee. I'll try and confirm that for you and let you know.

Either way, Rumsfeld going in to discuss additional moneys to help support the war efforts going on right now. He's asking for an additional $81.9 billion in emergency funds. Now I'm being told it's the House Arms Services Committee that he's going in to discuss those budget numbers.

Scientists using new technology and some very old bones find the first fossil record that modern human existed nearly 200,000 years ago. Experts analyze two fossils found in Ethiopia. Both were originally thought to be 130,000 years old, but new testing shows that they're really 195,000 000 years old, the oldest known Homo Sapien fossils. Well, the study appears in the journal "Nature" that comes out tomorrow.

All right, go ahead, get another cup of coffee because it could help prevent the most common kind of liver cancer. Japanese researchers analyzed 90,000 people over ten years and the findings are a really wake-up. Daily coffee drinkers had half the likely occurrence of liver cancer as people who never drink coffee. That study appears in the "Journal of the National Cancer Institute."

O'BRIEN: Well, he's the only guest we've ever had on who wouldn't take his sunglasses off.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE PISTONE, FMR. FBI AGENT: Obviously, I am, you know, a thrill junkie, an adrenaline junkie. Like to walk the line, like to live on the edge.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Former undercover FBI agent Joe Pistone tells me why he's now collaborating with the mob. That's right, collaborating with the mob. It was an offer he couldn't refuse. Stay with us. All right, already, Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: All right, Miles, listen up. Today's LIVE FROM bonus story tells of a candy new marketing idea from Stuttgard, Germany. It's for women who might find themselves with an unexpected hot date. What if they haven't followed mom's advice about always wearing clean underwear? Perhaps they only found granny drawers in the drawer that day. Never fear. Miles, slip-o-mat is here.

For six euros -- that's about $7.50, you can now get a pair of black thong underwear from a vending machine, along with teeth cleaning tablets. The inventor says, who also owns a lingerie shop, says she can't believe how successful the skinny defensers have been. What do you think?

O'BRIEN: I'm staying away from that one. Not touching that with a...

PHILLIPS: He's stunned with the night delight. We'll be back with much more riveting news you got to know.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Well, if you've seen an episode of "The Sopranos," you know it's trouble when law enforcement and the Mafia bosses tangle. So imagine our surprise when we heard that a former FBI agent and a former mob crime family member were collaborating, in a manner of speaking. Bill Bonanno, pictured here on the right, with his brother, back in '56, served time for his involvement in the crime family run by his father, Joey "Bananas" Bonanno. Sonya Houston (ph), out producer, loves that "Bananas" thing.

And remember the movie "Donnie Brasco," that was the true story of FBI agent Joe Pistone. He spent six years infiltrating the mob. Johnny Depp actually played him. AND now the former law enforcer has teamed up with the former law breaker to write a novel called "The Good Guys." I caught up with Joe a few days ago to talk about it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Joe, thanks for being with us.

JOE PISTONE, AUTHOR, "THE GOOD GUYS": Thanks for having me.

O'BRIEN: You know, you have one of those stories that's one of those, you know, truth is stranger than fiction stories. So I'm kind of curious, when you have so much real stuff to work with, why you decided to go the fiction route?

PISTONE: Well, book is fiction, but a lot of it is based on fact.

O'BRIEN: I believe that. I do believe that.

PISTONE: Yes, the story line, the Russian mafia, the Italian mafia, the Russians and Italians getting together to dream up a scam. It's cases that -- a particular case that I had interest in. And the characters -- the FBI characters, of course, the hero, O'Brien, is kind of based on my character. And the other FBI characters are composites of FBI agents that I knew. And the -- from the mafia side, the mob guys are a combination of characters that Bill Bonanno knew.

O'BRIEN: Well, tell me a little bit about that writing relationship, that team of Bonanno and Pistone. How does that work? Was it a good process creatively?

PISTONE: Well, yes. What happened was is that David Fisher, who is a dear friend of mine, an old friend, and a very accomplished writer, came up with the idea. So we met, we had some meetings. And we decided that a novel would be the way to go. And we plotted out the story line and the characters. And then I worked on the FBI chapters and Bill worked on the mob chapters. And then David put everything together. So David did all the real weaving of the tale together.

O'BRIEN: So you guys kind of worked on opposite sides of a wall, if you will. It's not like there was this tight-knit collaboration?

PISTONE: Exactly. We did not work together. I worked with David on the FBI chapters and Bill worked with David alone on the mob chapters. So we never actually sat down, Bill and I together, and did any writing.

O'BRIEN: How would that have gone, do you think, if you had tried to do it that way, or was that a bad idea?

PISTONE: Well, I don't think it would have been such a great idea. And the reason we didn't do it that way is we didn't want to influence one another on what we would say or what we would actually put into the basic thread of the story. So we felt if I knew what Bill's chapter was, then I would do my chapter and then he knew what my chapter was, and he would do his and Dave would put them together. And this way there would be no real conflict if we were sitting around together and then I would say, well, come on, Bill, you know that that would never happen that way. Or he would say, come on, Joe, you know the FBI wouldn't do this. And it worked out pretty good this way.

O'BRIEN: Yes. Pretty soon you got fisticuffs going and who knows what else happens if you have a situation like that, right? You don't want that, right?

PISTONE: Yes. You know, guns on the table and who's the quickest draw, so who knows?

O'BRIEN: Could get ugly really fast. Let me ask you this. An incredible career. You're the real-life "Donnie Brasco." Incredible career inside the mob from that amazingly, has to be scary, perspective, in that undercover role. Do you ever miss it? Is there a certain amount of adrenaline that you derive from that and thrill that you just can't get in writing a book?

PISTONE: Well, yes. I mean, you know, 27 years as an FBI agent, 20 years working undercover, you know, obviously, I am a thrill junky, an adrenaline junky, and like to -- you know, like to walk the line, like to live on the edge. But, you know, there comes a time when you have to hang up those spurs, so to speak. And, you know, I'm involved in movie production now, and TV production. And, you know, that's kind of like working with the mob guys too, you know, working in the movies.

(LAUGHTER)

O'BRIEN: Without mentioning any names, of course. And now we know why you're wearing those sunglasses, you have got to be careful what you say.

PISTONE: Exactly.

O'BRIEN: All right. Well, Joe Pistone, we wish you well with the book. And you're not going to take the sunglasses off for us today, right?

PISTONE: No, not today.

O'BRIEN: All right, on the down-low. Thanks for being with us. We appreciate your time.

PISTONE: Thank you, my pleasure.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Coming up in our second hour of LIVE FROM, we expect to hear from the sheriff in Pueblo County, Colorado, the scene of a plane crash today. We'll bring you an update on that as soon as it begins. More LIVE FROM after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired February 16, 2005 - 13:31   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Getting a dose of discussion, members of the FDA meeting today in Washington with government official, doctors, researchers and the public, they all meet and talk about the safety of popular prescription painkillers like Vioxx, Celebrex and Bextra, and whether they were put on the market before adequate testing.
If the deal is OK'd, it'll make history. An Arizona businessman, Reggie Fowler, will become the NFL's first black team owner. Fowler has agreed buy the Minnesota Vikings franchise, and bring more than bucks to the table. He briefly played for the NFL's Cincinatti Bengals.

Two cyclones tearing through the South Pacific. Cyclone Olaf is battering American Samoa. Wind gusts as high as 190 miles per hour. Samoa's capital is shut down and people have moved to higher ground. Another cyclone, Nancy, has weakened after pummeling the Cook Island.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, you won't feel it or see it, but starting today, much of the world is changing the way it uses energy. Eight years after it was drafted the Kyoto Global Warming Pact goes into force today. One-hundred and forty nations, not including the U.S., are part of the plan to cap emissions of so-called greenhouse gases that trap heat and have gradually warmed the planet.

Over the past few months I've seen a lot of evidence of global warming at the far reaches of the world. In November, I traveled to the north slope of Alaska, spent some time with Idaqid (ph) whalers, and fisherman and hunters who rely on winter ice to hunt their prey. But the ice comes later, melts earlier and is thinner these days.

Also, in the fall, our team to Churchill (ph), Manitoba, polar bear capital of the world, similarly story there. The bears are nature's binge eaters, spending the winter on the ice of Hudson Bay eating, and then they fast for the remainder of the year on dry land when it has melted. But the ice there is on Hudson Bay three weeks less than it was 30 years ago. That means the bears are skinnier, not as healthy, although these guys look good. They're constantly rummaging for food in the town of Churchill. The question is, how long can they last before there's not enough food for them?

Finally, I just flew in from the South Pacific, and boy, are my arms tired. The tiny low-lying nation of Tuvulo (ph), it's a coral atoll, it's barely above sea level as it is, and as the earth heats up, the glaciers melt, seas expand. The rising sea imperils this nation of 11,000. There's good reason to believe Tuvolo as a nation would be wiped off the map in 50 years time. People there are angry at the U.S. and the Australian government, both of which have reviewed to sign on to Kyoto, whose goal is to reduce emissions of greenhouse gases to 1990 levels. Both nations believe such restraints on energy use will hinder their economies and mean a loss of jobs.

But supporters of the treaty say something needs to be done to stop climate change, and Kyoto is a start, and that capping emissions might create whole new clean energy industries. In any case, all of this will be distilled into a special "CNN PRESENTS" which we are calling "Melting Point: Global Warming Threat," which airs Sunday, March 27th, at 8:00 p.m. Eastern. We invite you to set your TiVo now.

PHILLIPS: I'm going to watch it live.

O'BRIEN: Can you read now?

PHILLIPS: I think I'm okay. I'm getting so (INAUDIBLE) over your special, I was choked up. Sorry.

O'BRIEN: Yes, well, just let me know if you want my help, I'm here for you.

PHILLIPS: All right, well have you ditched your gas his guzzler for a more fuel-efficient car? If so, it could come back to bite you. Yes, it could. California is losing some big-time bucks in the form of gasoline taxes, and so the state is apparently considering an idea to make drivers pay for every mile they drive instead.

Ross Palombo from CNN affiliate KRON has the taxing details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're becoming more and more popular.

ROSS PALOMBO, KRON REPORTER (voice-over): It was designed to help you locate destinations, but now it may help the DMV locate you. Published reports say new state DMV director is thinking of rolling out a plan that would put brakes on the gas tax and instead tax drivers by the mile.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's basically like having a surveillance structure in place.

PALOMBO: The Electronic Frontier Foundation says the state might use tracking devices to download mileage directly from your car.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who keeps that data? And second of all, how long is it kept?

PALOMBO: Creating a potential for abuse every mile along the way.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's almost as if we're all being treated like potential criminals, and our records could be subpoenaed at anytime.

PALOMBO: Driving this possible change, cars with greater fuel efficiency.

For every gallon of gas pumped, 18 cents pours into state coffers. But since new fuel-efficient cars have been using less gas, less money is now coming in. By some estimate, slowing state revenues down 8 percent, while actual miles driven has accelerated 16 percent.

Honda driver Dedra Demming (ph) could e paying less tax, while someone driving an SUV the same distance is paying more. Basing the tax on mileage would ensure they pay the same.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's not fair.

PALOMBO: Some say it is. Since the money goes to repair roads worn out one mile at a time. Others say it goes too far, potentially allowing the state to drive off with private rights.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it should just stay the way it is. It's definitely an invasion of your privacy.

PALOMBO: Well, you'll be safe at the pumps for a little while longer. For any major change like this to go into effect, first the entire state legislature would have to approve it. In San Francisco, I'm Ross Palombo, KRON 4 News.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: Java junkies rejoice. It look like your daily fix can help fight certain cancers according to medical experts. We're going to talk about that straight ahead.

O'BRIEN: So if it fights cancer, when you have seven cups, that's seven times more cancer-fighting power, right? Let's hope not.

O'BRIEN: All right, and forget about it! You know him as Donnie Brasco, and now the man behind the movie and book. He's got a book. Bada-bing, bada-bo, LIVE FROM interview is coming up. If you don't watch, we'll break your knees.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Live to Capitol Hill now. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld speaking to reporters as he gets ready to head into the Senate Appropriations Committee to discuss that $81.9 billion in emergency funds for war efforts. Let's listen in.

(EVENT IN PROGRESS)

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: ... to do the kinds of things that we've seen done in four, five, six countries around the world in the last two and a half years. And we still have a big job to do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:: Mr. Secretary, you mentioned in there that you still don't really have much faith in the numbers that you're getting from the CIA or the DIA on the level of the insurgency. I mean, is it safe to say that you're still, this late point in the conflict, you're still dissatisfied in getting bad intelligence in Iraq? And also, the DCI says you're getting close to signing a memorandum on...

RUMSFELD: Let's do them one at a time. I have not seen the paper that you're referring to with respect to memorandum. It hasn't come to me yet. It's been -- it's staff level. Until I have a chance to read it, think about it and discuss it with him, it's -- and you haven't seen it either, have you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, sir.

RUMSFELD: So it's very much an open question. The intelligence -- I don't mean to be dismissive of it. People are doing the best that can be done. The fact is that people disagree. You heard the discussion in the committee. The Iraqi that they quoted have a number, others have numbers. We've seen the DIA and CIA and other pieces of our intelligence community analyze it.

It's not clear to me the number is the overriding, important thing. For one thing it changes from time to time, the size of these various groups, the former regime elements. It may change from time to time. To the extent -- certainly, the Zarqawi forces, the jihadists, change from time to time. And frankly, to the extent we can put pressure on their money, they're less able to hire criminals to participate with them in these various activities.

So the problem, the size of the problem, is one thing. The lethality of it is quite a different thing. The nature of it and the quality of it is different, the quality of it. The Zarqawi group within that problem group of the insurgency clearly is the smallest. It's clearly the most lethal. So wrong numbers don't -- I don't -- I don't think the issue is being cast quite right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Isn't that emblematic that you can't even come up with a firm number with all these intelligence communities? Isn't that emblematic of fact we haven't been able to nail down our intelligence in that region, even with all the troops?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Actually, let me just say -- he's talking about a series of shadowy networks, which don't take roll call and have no permanent, cohesive records. It's not unusual at all and you've got different estimates of the size of those forces.

RUMSFELD: And that's been true probably of most insurgencies in history where the numbers have moved around and people have different opinions of it and they've come and grown and shrunk depending on circumstances. I don't think it's unusual.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: General, I wanted to follow up on a question, a comment you made in response to about, there was a problem in Iran or North Korea or somewhere else in the world. You mentioned that you have to shift, perhaps airlift capacity to get -- as an example, and go back into reserve and guards who have been already deployed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Possibly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Possibly. Could you further elaborate on that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, no, the only thing I can say is the question was -- the U.S. military has other responsibilities in the world. And there's -- the whole defense strategy that we have to fulfill. My comment was we can do that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, if you do it still in a way -- like you said, more quickly and ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely,. There's no question on our ability to fulfill the defense strategy, as was articulated in last year's defense review. You bet.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks, folks. Let Mr. Dorita (ph) have the question here, we'll leave...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My question is, can you leave now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, thank you, folks. Appreciate it.

PHILLIPS: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld there, with Joint Chiefs of Staff Richard Myers. Getting ready -- initially, I was told, it was the Senate Appropriations Committee. Now I'm saying it's that it's the Senate Armed Services Committee. I'll try and confirm that for you and let you know.

Either way, Rumsfeld going in to discuss additional moneys to help support the war efforts going on right now. He's asking for an additional $81.9 billion in emergency funds. Now I'm being told it's the House Arms Services Committee that he's going in to discuss those budget numbers.

Scientists using new technology and some very old bones find the first fossil record that modern human existed nearly 200,000 years ago. Experts analyze two fossils found in Ethiopia. Both were originally thought to be 130,000 years old, but new testing shows that they're really 195,000 000 years old, the oldest known Homo Sapien fossils. Well, the study appears in the journal "Nature" that comes out tomorrow.

All right, go ahead, get another cup of coffee because it could help prevent the most common kind of liver cancer. Japanese researchers analyzed 90,000 people over ten years and the findings are a really wake-up. Daily coffee drinkers had half the likely occurrence of liver cancer as people who never drink coffee. That study appears in the "Journal of the National Cancer Institute."

O'BRIEN: Well, he's the only guest we've ever had on who wouldn't take his sunglasses off.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE PISTONE, FMR. FBI AGENT: Obviously, I am, you know, a thrill junkie, an adrenaline junkie. Like to walk the line, like to live on the edge.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Former undercover FBI agent Joe Pistone tells me why he's now collaborating with the mob. That's right, collaborating with the mob. It was an offer he couldn't refuse. Stay with us. All right, already, Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: All right, Miles, listen up. Today's LIVE FROM bonus story tells of a candy new marketing idea from Stuttgard, Germany. It's for women who might find themselves with an unexpected hot date. What if they haven't followed mom's advice about always wearing clean underwear? Perhaps they only found granny drawers in the drawer that day. Never fear. Miles, slip-o-mat is here.

For six euros -- that's about $7.50, you can now get a pair of black thong underwear from a vending machine, along with teeth cleaning tablets. The inventor says, who also owns a lingerie shop, says she can't believe how successful the skinny defensers have been. What do you think?

O'BRIEN: I'm staying away from that one. Not touching that with a...

PHILLIPS: He's stunned with the night delight. We'll be back with much more riveting news you got to know.

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O'BRIEN: Well, if you've seen an episode of "The Sopranos," you know it's trouble when law enforcement and the Mafia bosses tangle. So imagine our surprise when we heard that a former FBI agent and a former mob crime family member were collaborating, in a manner of speaking. Bill Bonanno, pictured here on the right, with his brother, back in '56, served time for his involvement in the crime family run by his father, Joey "Bananas" Bonanno. Sonya Houston (ph), out producer, loves that "Bananas" thing.

And remember the movie "Donnie Brasco," that was the true story of FBI agent Joe Pistone. He spent six years infiltrating the mob. Johnny Depp actually played him. AND now the former law enforcer has teamed up with the former law breaker to write a novel called "The Good Guys." I caught up with Joe a few days ago to talk about it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Joe, thanks for being with us.

JOE PISTONE, AUTHOR, "THE GOOD GUYS": Thanks for having me.

O'BRIEN: You know, you have one of those stories that's one of those, you know, truth is stranger than fiction stories. So I'm kind of curious, when you have so much real stuff to work with, why you decided to go the fiction route?

PISTONE: Well, book is fiction, but a lot of it is based on fact.

O'BRIEN: I believe that. I do believe that.

PISTONE: Yes, the story line, the Russian mafia, the Italian mafia, the Russians and Italians getting together to dream up a scam. It's cases that -- a particular case that I had interest in. And the characters -- the FBI characters, of course, the hero, O'Brien, is kind of based on my character. And the other FBI characters are composites of FBI agents that I knew. And the -- from the mafia side, the mob guys are a combination of characters that Bill Bonanno knew.

O'BRIEN: Well, tell me a little bit about that writing relationship, that team of Bonanno and Pistone. How does that work? Was it a good process creatively?

PISTONE: Well, yes. What happened was is that David Fisher, who is a dear friend of mine, an old friend, and a very accomplished writer, came up with the idea. So we met, we had some meetings. And we decided that a novel would be the way to go. And we plotted out the story line and the characters. And then I worked on the FBI chapters and Bill worked on the mob chapters. And then David put everything together. So David did all the real weaving of the tale together.

O'BRIEN: So you guys kind of worked on opposite sides of a wall, if you will. It's not like there was this tight-knit collaboration?

PISTONE: Exactly. We did not work together. I worked with David on the FBI chapters and Bill worked with David alone on the mob chapters. So we never actually sat down, Bill and I together, and did any writing.

O'BRIEN: How would that have gone, do you think, if you had tried to do it that way, or was that a bad idea?

PISTONE: Well, I don't think it would have been such a great idea. And the reason we didn't do it that way is we didn't want to influence one another on what we would say or what we would actually put into the basic thread of the story. So we felt if I knew what Bill's chapter was, then I would do my chapter and then he knew what my chapter was, and he would do his and Dave would put them together. And this way there would be no real conflict if we were sitting around together and then I would say, well, come on, Bill, you know that that would never happen that way. Or he would say, come on, Joe, you know the FBI wouldn't do this. And it worked out pretty good this way.

O'BRIEN: Yes. Pretty soon you got fisticuffs going and who knows what else happens if you have a situation like that, right? You don't want that, right?

PISTONE: Yes. You know, guns on the table and who's the quickest draw, so who knows?

O'BRIEN: Could get ugly really fast. Let me ask you this. An incredible career. You're the real-life "Donnie Brasco." Incredible career inside the mob from that amazingly, has to be scary, perspective, in that undercover role. Do you ever miss it? Is there a certain amount of adrenaline that you derive from that and thrill that you just can't get in writing a book?

PISTONE: Well, yes. I mean, you know, 27 years as an FBI agent, 20 years working undercover, you know, obviously, I am a thrill junky, an adrenaline junky, and like to -- you know, like to walk the line, like to live on the edge. But, you know, there comes a time when you have to hang up those spurs, so to speak. And, you know, I'm involved in movie production now, and TV production. And, you know, that's kind of like working with the mob guys too, you know, working in the movies.

(LAUGHTER)

O'BRIEN: Without mentioning any names, of course. And now we know why you're wearing those sunglasses, you have got to be careful what you say.

PISTONE: Exactly.

O'BRIEN: All right. Well, Joe Pistone, we wish you well with the book. And you're not going to take the sunglasses off for us today, right?

PISTONE: No, not today.

O'BRIEN: All right, on the down-low. Thanks for being with us. We appreciate your time.

PISTONE: Thank you, my pleasure.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Coming up in our second hour of LIVE FROM, we expect to hear from the sheriff in Pueblo County, Colorado, the scene of a plane crash today. We'll bring you an update on that as soon as it begins. More LIVE FROM after this.

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