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Mending Fences

Aired February 21, 2005 - 13:31   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: As we continue to follow the storms out in California, take a look at this video that we're just getting in to CNN. Three people are trapped inside this home in Hacienda Heights in California. It was hit by a mudslide. We don't know if there are any injuries, but if you see in the bottom portion of your screen right there, rescue workers underneath this banner that you see are in the area. There is one behind the house. Several rescue workers are on the scene. In fact, they've called for more rescue teams to approach the area to try to rescue these three people trapped inside. Of course, the rains keep pouring in Southern California. So far, two people have died because of these storms. And we will continue to follow it throughout the day.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: President Bush is calling for a new era of trans-Atlantic unity between the U.S. and Europe. That was the major theme of the president's speech in Brussels today that kicked off a five-day fence-mending tour through Europe. What exactly does the president mean by mending fences? And is this the way to bridge divisions with Europe? Joining me from New York is Philippe Bolopion, a correspondent for Radio France Internationale, and syndicated columnist Joel Mowbray.

And, Joel, let me start with you. Are we making too much of this whole notion of mending fences? It seems if you're going to mend some fences, someone needs to apologize on one side or the other, and that's not going to happen. Are we making too much of this?

JOEL MOWBRAY, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: You know, when I think of a fence, I think of something that divides, a barrier between two places. And I think we definitely have profound divide between old Europe and the United States. There are very different world views. President Bush has, you know, what you could say is very easily an optimist, idealist sort of worldview. He believes that you can spread liberty, and that is the antidote to tyranny. I happen to believe he's correct on that. The French government does not. Many of the other governments of old Europe and the people of old Europe don't really believe that. And I think new Europe, to borrow from Rumsfeld's phrasing, I think they do believe in that more. Remember, they just came out very recently from under the grip of the Iron Curtain. So they understand about defeating tyranny and they still see the United States as an ally, not an enemy.

HARRIS: Hey, Philippe, do you buy that characterization from Joel?

PHILIPPE BOLOPION, RADIO FRANCE INTERNATIONALE: Not really. I think it's actually interesting. What President Bush said today is that he wanted a stronger Europe, and it looks to me like they are trying to sort of put past them that divide between old Europe and new Europe. They sort of acknowledge that the European Union is now a real diplomatic power in the world, and you know that strategy to divide that has been mainly pursued by Donald Rumsfeld, the secretary of defense, I think it's not on the agenda anymore, and I think right now it's more a reconciliation that we can see today.

HARRIS: Joel, why not play a little good cop/bad cop here -- soft power, hard power, the United States will be the big hammer let France and other countries of Europe use their, quote, unquote, "soft power," and let's move on to other issues; let's move on to Syria and other issues over there.

MOWBRAY: Well, I think what we have here is actually a charm offensive. It's not really something where bush is trying to necessarily compromise with the other side. I think what he's trying to do -- you see this with President Bush here domestically. He has an idea, he has a vision, he sticks to his guns, and he eventually coaxes over at least a few people so his side, enough to build a workable coalition. I think you're looking at the same thing here. I think he's partly trying to soften opposition, and maybe even pick up a few admittedly cautious allies, but allies nonetheless.

I think that he might actually have success, or at least this will be the beginning of a glasnost, if you will, with the countries of western Europe. And the others could be affected.

We need Europe with us to have an alliance. You know, the Iraq war was not as strong as it could have been, had we had more support behind it in the rebuilding as well. I think it would be good to have a stronger Atlantic alliance. I just don't see that happening right away. It will take time, and this is the beginning of that.

HARRIS: Philippe, what were the fence-mending words, ideas, notions that you heard today?

BOLOPION: Well, you know, we heard all that talk about strong Europe, united, on the side of the U.S. but the most important is probably what we are not going to see right now. The President Chirac and the President Bush are supposed to have a dinner together, and you know the relationship between the two of them has been really icy, not to say really bad lately. So there is bad chemistry between the two men, and I think that's a real problem to mend fences. So I think it's really interesting to see what they are going to discuss tonight, how their personal relationship is going to grow. And I think they're going to choose to talk about things that they can agree on, and right now, for example, there is the Lebanon question, absolutely both countries have been really working together hand-in-hand in the Security Council to obtain resolution 1559 to ask Syria to withdraw from Lebanon. They obtain together to have an inquiry into the assassination of the former prime minister, Rafik Hariri.

So there are things they can work on, whether they have a common interest, and I think if they take it from there, they can probably move on to restore a better relationship, even though I agree, William Cohen said the tone is new, but the tune is the same, and I agree with that, but it's a beginning, it's new tone certainly.

HARRIS: Joel, doesn't that make sense? Why don't you start with something you can agree on. Let's forget about -- well, you can't forget about Iraq, because the president would love some help, some monetary assistance from Europe with the rebuilding of Iraq. But why not move forward? Why not talk about things that you can agree on, and put some of those other issues, to the extent you can?

MOWBRAY: Well, let's take a look at Syria, for example. When it came down to the Iraq war, France saw as its greatest ally, Syria, not the United States on the Security Council. That should be trouble sign No. 1. They don't have a moral problem working hand in hand with the Syrians.

Now when it's politically convenient, they say, oh, well, we want the Syrians out of Lebanon. Well, you know, I wonder why there is such a Johnny-come-lately to that issue? With the question of Iraq, remember, right after the war ended, remember, the French wanted in on the contracts because they wanted to get money. Why are they not taking the lead also now when we realize that there is going to be more economic assistance needed until the oil spigots start to flow fully in Iraq? And I didn't see them at the front of that line either.

HARRIS: Hey, Joel, before we run out of time, isn't the real must-see event the meeting later this week with president Putin?

MOWBRAY: Well, yes. The fact -- we haven't really talked about this so far -- the fact that he called on Russia to go further towards Democratic reforms is implicitly saying that he doesn't believe that Putin is really a Democratic leader anymore. Remember, this is a man who three years ago Bush looked into his eyes and saw his soul.

HARRIS: Saw his soul, yes.

MOWBRAY: And now he's publicly rebuking him on the international stage. This is a quite a turn of events. I didn't think I'd see it. The fact that he called for that, I mean it's necessary and we need to that happen. Russia, by the way, has been a big stumbling block when you're talking about Iraq, when you're talking about Iran, or even North Korea. So to have a more Democratic Russia, I think would really help us on the international stage, dealing with the axis of evil countries.

HARRIS: OK, and, Philippe, just a quick word. What are you looking forward to in those conversations? What will we hear publicly, and probably more importantly, what will we learn later about what went on privately?

BOLOPION: Well, I agree what's going to happen with Vladimir Putin is really interesting, because right now people have heard the agenda of freedom spreading from Bush have been very skeptical of his desire to really spread freedom when it comes to allies with a bad human rights record. There is, of course, Saudi Arabia and countries like that. So now I think he's trying to show that he really means it. How long he can do that, can he sustain that policy with a big ally like Russia, it's going to be really interesting to see.

HARRIS: Great. Phillipe, thank you very much for taking the time to talk with us. We appreciate. Thank you.

MOWBRAY: Thank you.

BOLOPION: Thank you.

HARRIS: Coming up, is outsourcing airline maintenance putting your safety in jeopardy? Drew Griffin investigates. That's next.

NGUYEN: Plus, the wedding of Prince Charles and Camilla Parker Bowles, is ti time for you to book your ticket, or possibly even pack your protest signs? LIVE FROM is engraving your invitation, straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: He is the grandson of slaves, a Korean War veteran and a lawyer who has carved an historic and unusual career in politics. As part of CNN's anniversary series "Then and Now," we look back at the life of Douglas Wilder and where he is today.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Lawrence Douglas Wilder has earned a reputation exploring uncharted territory, politically as well as racially. He graduated from the private all- black Virginia Union University after being turned away from all-white schools in his native Virginia. Doug Wilder went on to become a celebrated criminal lawyer, state senator, lieutenant governor, and in 1990, the first black governor ever elected in the U.S.

DOUGLAS WILDER, FMR. VA GOVERNOR: The people of Virginia have spoken tonight!

PHILLIPS: To demonstrate distaste for his state's history of slavery, Wilder chose to take his oath of office outside Virginia's capitol, a building that had served as the Confederate capital during the Civil War. Now at 74, he's beginning a new phase of public service. Last November, following a historic change in the city charter, he became the first mayor elected by the people, rather than the council, in his hometown Richmond.

WILDER; What is it that we are to do? And who are you there for? You're there to represent the people.

PHILLIPS: Today, Mayor Doug Wilder is a common sight on the streets of Richmond, and Virginia Commonwealth University, where he teaches political science.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: Well, if you've flown recently, you've probably noticed the meal and beverage service cutbacks that have been instituted by cash-strapped U.S. airlines. But some airline mechanics say the cost cutting goes far beyond peanuts and pretzels and could compromise safety. CNN's Drew Griffin reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN (voice-over): By the numbers, it's the safest way to travel in the United States, but don't tell that to this man.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The public really doesn't know what's going on inside the industry.

GRIFFIN: He's a senior mechanic with one of the nation's biggest airlines, working at a main hub. He's afraid to tell you his name, his airline or even let us show you his face, because he fears he'll lose his job. But he wants you to know he's afraid for your safety if you fly his airline or any other airline that sends its maintenance work to outside repair shops.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We haven't had a lot catastrophic crashes yet but according to the trend we see, it won't be that long.

GRIFFIN: Trends to outsourcing maintenance he says are generating serious quality problems, problems supported by these documents obtained by CNN. Record after record of what people throughout the industry agree is shoddy repair work, poor maintenance and even negligence. The head of safety for the largest aircraft mechanics union in the country, Frank Boxsanske calls the records frightening.

FRANK BOKSANSKE, AIRCRAFT MECHANICS UNION: And the reports that I see coming in are very serious in nature that I've not seen in my 28 years in the industry.

GRIFFIN: Why do airlines do it? It's simple. They are trying to save money. Many outside contractors use non-union mechanics, can focus on specialized work and according to the Air Transport Association, can save airlines hundreds of millions of dollars a year. But that doesn't mean the cheaper work has led to less quality, less safety or less oversight, according to the ATA.

BASIL BARIMO, AIR TRANSPORT ASSN: So airlines are very careful at making sure that they maintain a safe operation and really there's no distinction statistically when you talk about safety, between work performed within the airline or work performed by a third party maintenance provider.

GRIFFIN: Outsourcing of specialized maintenance has been going on for more than 30 years, but it has been mostly specialized, like engines going back to the manufacturer. Now all kinds of work is being sent out by the airlines. Air carriers are outsourcing anywhere from a third to 3/4 of their maintenance to outside companies.

BARIMO: What you're seeing now is more at the air frame level. It's the airplane itself.

GRIFFIN: The Air Transport Association says airlines last year lost $8 billion and says the group, trimming maintenance costs has help alleviate some of that economic pressure, without sacrificing safety. But the former head of the National Transportation Safety Board, Jim Hall, says cutting back on maintenance costs is cutting back on safety.

JIM HALL, FORMER HEAD NTSB: It's one thing to pull back essentially on the -- passing onto the passengers they cost they pay (ph) for tickets or eliminating the pretzels and the nuts. But the nuts and bolts of maintenance you can't ignore.

GRIFFIN: Hall points to the crash two years ago of a commuter plane in Charlotte, North Carolina, that killed 21, partially blamed on a contractor's failure to properly adjust a cable. Mechanics, Congress, union leaders, two critical reports by the inspector general and even some of the FAA's own inspectors now agree, commercial airliners are not being adequately cared for and the consequences could be tragic.

(on-camera): And what's more, critics say the Federal Aviation Administration is failing the flying public because they say the FAA inspectors, the watchdogs, are incapable of policing this booming industry.

(voice-over): Why? According to the inspector general, there just aren't enough of them. What's at stake? Take a look at documents obtained by CNN. The documents are maintenance reports were prepared by the airlines own maintenance departments and cite dozens of examples of bad work by outside repair companies. The sub-standard work ranged from a plastic bottle wedged in an aircraft landing gear door to problems with wing flaps, cabin doors and engines.

The mistakes were later caught and documented by the airlines own mechanics but only after the outside repair shop had given the plane a maintenance release and in many cases after the plane had carried passengers. The documents show that at one flight, an aircraft door wouldn't shut. On another, fuel was leaking into cargo bays, landing gear struts were worn through, hydraulic fluid leaked and wing flaps would not extend. On one airplane, the nose gear was so out of alignment a mechanic wrote the airline was lucky this plane didn't lose control on take off or landing.

Every one of the planes cited in these documents had recently been worked on at an outside maintenance facility. Here at Purdue University school of aviation technology, students are taught on the school's own Boeing 737s that safety is the mechanics responsibility and safety is enhanced when skilled technicians oversee each others work.

Professor Thomas Wild (ph) is showing us an aircraft engine borisco (ph) plug. A mechanic can unscrew the plug and use this small scope to inspect the interior of an engine. According to Wild, the most important part of the inspection is putting the plug back properly. But according to the documents we obtained on two separate flights from San Francisco to Hawaii, the borisco plugs were either missing or in one case simply left hanging with Teflon tape and sealant to try to hold the plug in place. The crews on both flights reported engine surges, the unexpected racing of an engine in flat. A mechanic we spoke to called the mistake inexcusable.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're talking about extremely high pressure, hot air being expelled to the inside coverings or the (INAUDIBLE) of the engine, causing, probably causing a lot of damage inside the (INAUDIBLE) itself.

GRIFFIN: I just can't believe why an airline would allow this to happen.

BOKSANSKE: Well, they're going through hard times. They're practicing risk management. They're taking a chance.

GRIFFIN: Not so, says the Air Transport Association who says the unions are simply worried about their jobs. Outsourcing work to non- union repair stations has cost thousands of union jobs, but Boksanske says this is not just a labor dispute, but a critical safety issue and he claims, not only the airlines, but also the industry's Federal watchdog.

BOKSANSKE: The FAA is very, has a critical shortage of (INAUDIBLE) inspectors.

My position is a factual position.

GRIFFIN: Nick Sabatini is the FAA's administrator for regulation and certification.

NICK SABATINI, FAA: So the concerns are not substantiated by the facts. The fact is, it is the safest air transportation system in the world. But you know what, we take this business very seriously. If the inspector general thinks that there are issues, then we take those issues very seriously and we follow up.

GRIFFIN: In fact, Sabatini says, the FAA has already begun changing the way it inspects outsourced maintenance shops and it's increasing the number of those inspections and he also says the agency routinely includes surprise inspections.

SABATINI: We can make all the unannounced visits we want ad infinitum. There is absolutely no requirement anywhere for those inspectors to announce that they're coming.

LINDA GOODRICH, FAA'S INSPECTORS UNION: We are lucky to go to each of the facilities once a year.

GRIFFIN: Not a surprise visit?

GOODRICH: No. We would love to be able to do surprise visits. It's not possible.

GRIFFIN: Linda Goodrich is vice president of the Federal union that represents FAA inspectors.

GOODRICH: You can't just keep cutting away at the safety margin and expect nothing to happen. GRIFFIN: For 21 years, Sarah McLeod has run the Aeronautical Repair Station Association, a group that represents about 500 of the 5200 outsource repair stations worldwide.

SARAH MCLEOD, REPAIR ASSN: Our record indicates that work being done by repair stations either in house maintenance done by repair stations or carrier repair stations or the air carrier themselves, versus work being done by a outsource maintenance provider are no different.

GRIFFIN: No one in this report could provide complete data comparing in house versus outsourced maintenance, though the inspector general has found the FAA does a much better job watching maintenance at the airlines than it does at outside repair shops. American Airlines agrees. The company invited us to Fort Worth, Texas, to tell us that it's decided to buck the trend and put more work back in the hands of its own mechanics. When the airline was trying to avoid bankruptcy, the union agreed to wage cuts to keep more of the work in house. About 80 percent of American's work stays with American, including all heavy maintenance.

DAVID CAMPBELL, AMERICAN AIRLINES: Having control of this highly technical machine, the maintenance of that and the engineering of those products, having that control, we believe gives us greater ability to mitigate safety risks.

When that airplane goes out the door after I've seen it, (INAUDIBLE) we know what kind of quality has gone into that and we know the workmanship that's gone into it, because we've had it from cradle to grave.

GRIFFIN: Any day now, the Transportation Department's inspector general is expected to release yet another critical report on poor maintenance and poor Federal oversight of how commercial airlines keep their planes flying.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS: All right, Betty, stay with me on this one because there is a lot of information in this. Now Prince Charles, well, he won't have to worry about getting to the church on time.

NGUYEN: Why is that?

HARRIS: Well, he and long-time companion Camilla Parker Bowles are both divorcees. So they've agreed to be married in a civil rather than religious ceremony. But that may not be enough to satisfy some Church Of England authorities who still say they -- that the planned wedding is illegal.

NGUYEN: Oh yes. In an interview with British media, one London minister, Tony, says he will file a written challenge to the marriage, and if that doesn't work, get this, he is threatening to voice his objections at the ceremony itself. Hmm.

HARRIS: He doesn't have a name placard at the ceremony. NGUYEN: Can you imagine though? Could you imagine standing up and objecting to it

HARRIS: Yes, yes, yes, I could see it happening.

NGUYEN: Oh, what an awkward moment that would be.

HARRIS: You got that right.

(LAUGHTER)

HARRIS: Coming up in our second hour of LIVE FROM, we're live from Brussels, Belgium, where President Bush is meeting with European leaders.

NGUYEN: And get the latest on that missing family in Texas. A potentially important find in the search. More LIVE FROM after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired February 21, 2005 - 13:31   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: As we continue to follow the storms out in California, take a look at this video that we're just getting in to CNN. Three people are trapped inside this home in Hacienda Heights in California. It was hit by a mudslide. We don't know if there are any injuries, but if you see in the bottom portion of your screen right there, rescue workers underneath this banner that you see are in the area. There is one behind the house. Several rescue workers are on the scene. In fact, they've called for more rescue teams to approach the area to try to rescue these three people trapped inside. Of course, the rains keep pouring in Southern California. So far, two people have died because of these storms. And we will continue to follow it throughout the day.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: President Bush is calling for a new era of trans-Atlantic unity between the U.S. and Europe. That was the major theme of the president's speech in Brussels today that kicked off a five-day fence-mending tour through Europe. What exactly does the president mean by mending fences? And is this the way to bridge divisions with Europe? Joining me from New York is Philippe Bolopion, a correspondent for Radio France Internationale, and syndicated columnist Joel Mowbray.

And, Joel, let me start with you. Are we making too much of this whole notion of mending fences? It seems if you're going to mend some fences, someone needs to apologize on one side or the other, and that's not going to happen. Are we making too much of this?

JOEL MOWBRAY, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: You know, when I think of a fence, I think of something that divides, a barrier between two places. And I think we definitely have profound divide between old Europe and the United States. There are very different world views. President Bush has, you know, what you could say is very easily an optimist, idealist sort of worldview. He believes that you can spread liberty, and that is the antidote to tyranny. I happen to believe he's correct on that. The French government does not. Many of the other governments of old Europe and the people of old Europe don't really believe that. And I think new Europe, to borrow from Rumsfeld's phrasing, I think they do believe in that more. Remember, they just came out very recently from under the grip of the Iron Curtain. So they understand about defeating tyranny and they still see the United States as an ally, not an enemy.

HARRIS: Hey, Philippe, do you buy that characterization from Joel?

PHILIPPE BOLOPION, RADIO FRANCE INTERNATIONALE: Not really. I think it's actually interesting. What President Bush said today is that he wanted a stronger Europe, and it looks to me like they are trying to sort of put past them that divide between old Europe and new Europe. They sort of acknowledge that the European Union is now a real diplomatic power in the world, and you know that strategy to divide that has been mainly pursued by Donald Rumsfeld, the secretary of defense, I think it's not on the agenda anymore, and I think right now it's more a reconciliation that we can see today.

HARRIS: Joel, why not play a little good cop/bad cop here -- soft power, hard power, the United States will be the big hammer let France and other countries of Europe use their, quote, unquote, "soft power," and let's move on to other issues; let's move on to Syria and other issues over there.

MOWBRAY: Well, I think what we have here is actually a charm offensive. It's not really something where bush is trying to necessarily compromise with the other side. I think what he's trying to do -- you see this with President Bush here domestically. He has an idea, he has a vision, he sticks to his guns, and he eventually coaxes over at least a few people so his side, enough to build a workable coalition. I think you're looking at the same thing here. I think he's partly trying to soften opposition, and maybe even pick up a few admittedly cautious allies, but allies nonetheless.

I think that he might actually have success, or at least this will be the beginning of a glasnost, if you will, with the countries of western Europe. And the others could be affected.

We need Europe with us to have an alliance. You know, the Iraq war was not as strong as it could have been, had we had more support behind it in the rebuilding as well. I think it would be good to have a stronger Atlantic alliance. I just don't see that happening right away. It will take time, and this is the beginning of that.

HARRIS: Philippe, what were the fence-mending words, ideas, notions that you heard today?

BOLOPION: Well, you know, we heard all that talk about strong Europe, united, on the side of the U.S. but the most important is probably what we are not going to see right now. The President Chirac and the President Bush are supposed to have a dinner together, and you know the relationship between the two of them has been really icy, not to say really bad lately. So there is bad chemistry between the two men, and I think that's a real problem to mend fences. So I think it's really interesting to see what they are going to discuss tonight, how their personal relationship is going to grow. And I think they're going to choose to talk about things that they can agree on, and right now, for example, there is the Lebanon question, absolutely both countries have been really working together hand-in-hand in the Security Council to obtain resolution 1559 to ask Syria to withdraw from Lebanon. They obtain together to have an inquiry into the assassination of the former prime minister, Rafik Hariri.

So there are things they can work on, whether they have a common interest, and I think if they take it from there, they can probably move on to restore a better relationship, even though I agree, William Cohen said the tone is new, but the tune is the same, and I agree with that, but it's a beginning, it's new tone certainly.

HARRIS: Joel, doesn't that make sense? Why don't you start with something you can agree on. Let's forget about -- well, you can't forget about Iraq, because the president would love some help, some monetary assistance from Europe with the rebuilding of Iraq. But why not move forward? Why not talk about things that you can agree on, and put some of those other issues, to the extent you can?

MOWBRAY: Well, let's take a look at Syria, for example. When it came down to the Iraq war, France saw as its greatest ally, Syria, not the United States on the Security Council. That should be trouble sign No. 1. They don't have a moral problem working hand in hand with the Syrians.

Now when it's politically convenient, they say, oh, well, we want the Syrians out of Lebanon. Well, you know, I wonder why there is such a Johnny-come-lately to that issue? With the question of Iraq, remember, right after the war ended, remember, the French wanted in on the contracts because they wanted to get money. Why are they not taking the lead also now when we realize that there is going to be more economic assistance needed until the oil spigots start to flow fully in Iraq? And I didn't see them at the front of that line either.

HARRIS: Hey, Joel, before we run out of time, isn't the real must-see event the meeting later this week with president Putin?

MOWBRAY: Well, yes. The fact -- we haven't really talked about this so far -- the fact that he called on Russia to go further towards Democratic reforms is implicitly saying that he doesn't believe that Putin is really a Democratic leader anymore. Remember, this is a man who three years ago Bush looked into his eyes and saw his soul.

HARRIS: Saw his soul, yes.

MOWBRAY: And now he's publicly rebuking him on the international stage. This is a quite a turn of events. I didn't think I'd see it. The fact that he called for that, I mean it's necessary and we need to that happen. Russia, by the way, has been a big stumbling block when you're talking about Iraq, when you're talking about Iran, or even North Korea. So to have a more Democratic Russia, I think would really help us on the international stage, dealing with the axis of evil countries.

HARRIS: OK, and, Philippe, just a quick word. What are you looking forward to in those conversations? What will we hear publicly, and probably more importantly, what will we learn later about what went on privately?

BOLOPION: Well, I agree what's going to happen with Vladimir Putin is really interesting, because right now people have heard the agenda of freedom spreading from Bush have been very skeptical of his desire to really spread freedom when it comes to allies with a bad human rights record. There is, of course, Saudi Arabia and countries like that. So now I think he's trying to show that he really means it. How long he can do that, can he sustain that policy with a big ally like Russia, it's going to be really interesting to see.

HARRIS: Great. Phillipe, thank you very much for taking the time to talk with us. We appreciate. Thank you.

MOWBRAY: Thank you.

BOLOPION: Thank you.

HARRIS: Coming up, is outsourcing airline maintenance putting your safety in jeopardy? Drew Griffin investigates. That's next.

NGUYEN: Plus, the wedding of Prince Charles and Camilla Parker Bowles, is ti time for you to book your ticket, or possibly even pack your protest signs? LIVE FROM is engraving your invitation, straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: He is the grandson of slaves, a Korean War veteran and a lawyer who has carved an historic and unusual career in politics. As part of CNN's anniversary series "Then and Now," we look back at the life of Douglas Wilder and where he is today.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Lawrence Douglas Wilder has earned a reputation exploring uncharted territory, politically as well as racially. He graduated from the private all- black Virginia Union University after being turned away from all-white schools in his native Virginia. Doug Wilder went on to become a celebrated criminal lawyer, state senator, lieutenant governor, and in 1990, the first black governor ever elected in the U.S.

DOUGLAS WILDER, FMR. VA GOVERNOR: The people of Virginia have spoken tonight!

PHILLIPS: To demonstrate distaste for his state's history of slavery, Wilder chose to take his oath of office outside Virginia's capitol, a building that had served as the Confederate capital during the Civil War. Now at 74, he's beginning a new phase of public service. Last November, following a historic change in the city charter, he became the first mayor elected by the people, rather than the council, in his hometown Richmond.

WILDER; What is it that we are to do? And who are you there for? You're there to represent the people.

PHILLIPS: Today, Mayor Doug Wilder is a common sight on the streets of Richmond, and Virginia Commonwealth University, where he teaches political science.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: Well, if you've flown recently, you've probably noticed the meal and beverage service cutbacks that have been instituted by cash-strapped U.S. airlines. But some airline mechanics say the cost cutting goes far beyond peanuts and pretzels and could compromise safety. CNN's Drew Griffin reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN (voice-over): By the numbers, it's the safest way to travel in the United States, but don't tell that to this man.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The public really doesn't know what's going on inside the industry.

GRIFFIN: He's a senior mechanic with one of the nation's biggest airlines, working at a main hub. He's afraid to tell you his name, his airline or even let us show you his face, because he fears he'll lose his job. But he wants you to know he's afraid for your safety if you fly his airline or any other airline that sends its maintenance work to outside repair shops.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We haven't had a lot catastrophic crashes yet but according to the trend we see, it won't be that long.

GRIFFIN: Trends to outsourcing maintenance he says are generating serious quality problems, problems supported by these documents obtained by CNN. Record after record of what people throughout the industry agree is shoddy repair work, poor maintenance and even negligence. The head of safety for the largest aircraft mechanics union in the country, Frank Boxsanske calls the records frightening.

FRANK BOKSANSKE, AIRCRAFT MECHANICS UNION: And the reports that I see coming in are very serious in nature that I've not seen in my 28 years in the industry.

GRIFFIN: Why do airlines do it? It's simple. They are trying to save money. Many outside contractors use non-union mechanics, can focus on specialized work and according to the Air Transport Association, can save airlines hundreds of millions of dollars a year. But that doesn't mean the cheaper work has led to less quality, less safety or less oversight, according to the ATA.

BASIL BARIMO, AIR TRANSPORT ASSN: So airlines are very careful at making sure that they maintain a safe operation and really there's no distinction statistically when you talk about safety, between work performed within the airline or work performed by a third party maintenance provider.

GRIFFIN: Outsourcing of specialized maintenance has been going on for more than 30 years, but it has been mostly specialized, like engines going back to the manufacturer. Now all kinds of work is being sent out by the airlines. Air carriers are outsourcing anywhere from a third to 3/4 of their maintenance to outside companies.

BARIMO: What you're seeing now is more at the air frame level. It's the airplane itself.

GRIFFIN: The Air Transport Association says airlines last year lost $8 billion and says the group, trimming maintenance costs has help alleviate some of that economic pressure, without sacrificing safety. But the former head of the National Transportation Safety Board, Jim Hall, says cutting back on maintenance costs is cutting back on safety.

JIM HALL, FORMER HEAD NTSB: It's one thing to pull back essentially on the -- passing onto the passengers they cost they pay (ph) for tickets or eliminating the pretzels and the nuts. But the nuts and bolts of maintenance you can't ignore.

GRIFFIN: Hall points to the crash two years ago of a commuter plane in Charlotte, North Carolina, that killed 21, partially blamed on a contractor's failure to properly adjust a cable. Mechanics, Congress, union leaders, two critical reports by the inspector general and even some of the FAA's own inspectors now agree, commercial airliners are not being adequately cared for and the consequences could be tragic.

(on-camera): And what's more, critics say the Federal Aviation Administration is failing the flying public because they say the FAA inspectors, the watchdogs, are incapable of policing this booming industry.

(voice-over): Why? According to the inspector general, there just aren't enough of them. What's at stake? Take a look at documents obtained by CNN. The documents are maintenance reports were prepared by the airlines own maintenance departments and cite dozens of examples of bad work by outside repair companies. The sub-standard work ranged from a plastic bottle wedged in an aircraft landing gear door to problems with wing flaps, cabin doors and engines.

The mistakes were later caught and documented by the airlines own mechanics but only after the outside repair shop had given the plane a maintenance release and in many cases after the plane had carried passengers. The documents show that at one flight, an aircraft door wouldn't shut. On another, fuel was leaking into cargo bays, landing gear struts were worn through, hydraulic fluid leaked and wing flaps would not extend. On one airplane, the nose gear was so out of alignment a mechanic wrote the airline was lucky this plane didn't lose control on take off or landing.

Every one of the planes cited in these documents had recently been worked on at an outside maintenance facility. Here at Purdue University school of aviation technology, students are taught on the school's own Boeing 737s that safety is the mechanics responsibility and safety is enhanced when skilled technicians oversee each others work.

Professor Thomas Wild (ph) is showing us an aircraft engine borisco (ph) plug. A mechanic can unscrew the plug and use this small scope to inspect the interior of an engine. According to Wild, the most important part of the inspection is putting the plug back properly. But according to the documents we obtained on two separate flights from San Francisco to Hawaii, the borisco plugs were either missing or in one case simply left hanging with Teflon tape and sealant to try to hold the plug in place. The crews on both flights reported engine surges, the unexpected racing of an engine in flat. A mechanic we spoke to called the mistake inexcusable.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're talking about extremely high pressure, hot air being expelled to the inside coverings or the (INAUDIBLE) of the engine, causing, probably causing a lot of damage inside the (INAUDIBLE) itself.

GRIFFIN: I just can't believe why an airline would allow this to happen.

BOKSANSKE: Well, they're going through hard times. They're practicing risk management. They're taking a chance.

GRIFFIN: Not so, says the Air Transport Association who says the unions are simply worried about their jobs. Outsourcing work to non- union repair stations has cost thousands of union jobs, but Boksanske says this is not just a labor dispute, but a critical safety issue and he claims, not only the airlines, but also the industry's Federal watchdog.

BOKSANSKE: The FAA is very, has a critical shortage of (INAUDIBLE) inspectors.

My position is a factual position.

GRIFFIN: Nick Sabatini is the FAA's administrator for regulation and certification.

NICK SABATINI, FAA: So the concerns are not substantiated by the facts. The fact is, it is the safest air transportation system in the world. But you know what, we take this business very seriously. If the inspector general thinks that there are issues, then we take those issues very seriously and we follow up.

GRIFFIN: In fact, Sabatini says, the FAA has already begun changing the way it inspects outsourced maintenance shops and it's increasing the number of those inspections and he also says the agency routinely includes surprise inspections.

SABATINI: We can make all the unannounced visits we want ad infinitum. There is absolutely no requirement anywhere for those inspectors to announce that they're coming.

LINDA GOODRICH, FAA'S INSPECTORS UNION: We are lucky to go to each of the facilities once a year.

GRIFFIN: Not a surprise visit?

GOODRICH: No. We would love to be able to do surprise visits. It's not possible.

GRIFFIN: Linda Goodrich is vice president of the Federal union that represents FAA inspectors.

GOODRICH: You can't just keep cutting away at the safety margin and expect nothing to happen. GRIFFIN: For 21 years, Sarah McLeod has run the Aeronautical Repair Station Association, a group that represents about 500 of the 5200 outsource repair stations worldwide.

SARAH MCLEOD, REPAIR ASSN: Our record indicates that work being done by repair stations either in house maintenance done by repair stations or carrier repair stations or the air carrier themselves, versus work being done by a outsource maintenance provider are no different.

GRIFFIN: No one in this report could provide complete data comparing in house versus outsourced maintenance, though the inspector general has found the FAA does a much better job watching maintenance at the airlines than it does at outside repair shops. American Airlines agrees. The company invited us to Fort Worth, Texas, to tell us that it's decided to buck the trend and put more work back in the hands of its own mechanics. When the airline was trying to avoid bankruptcy, the union agreed to wage cuts to keep more of the work in house. About 80 percent of American's work stays with American, including all heavy maintenance.

DAVID CAMPBELL, AMERICAN AIRLINES: Having control of this highly technical machine, the maintenance of that and the engineering of those products, having that control, we believe gives us greater ability to mitigate safety risks.

When that airplane goes out the door after I've seen it, (INAUDIBLE) we know what kind of quality has gone into that and we know the workmanship that's gone into it, because we've had it from cradle to grave.

GRIFFIN: Any day now, the Transportation Department's inspector general is expected to release yet another critical report on poor maintenance and poor Federal oversight of how commercial airlines keep their planes flying.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS: All right, Betty, stay with me on this one because there is a lot of information in this. Now Prince Charles, well, he won't have to worry about getting to the church on time.

NGUYEN: Why is that?

HARRIS: Well, he and long-time companion Camilla Parker Bowles are both divorcees. So they've agreed to be married in a civil rather than religious ceremony. But that may not be enough to satisfy some Church Of England authorities who still say they -- that the planned wedding is illegal.

NGUYEN: Oh yes. In an interview with British media, one London minister, Tony, says he will file a written challenge to the marriage, and if that doesn't work, get this, he is threatening to voice his objections at the ceremony itself. Hmm.

HARRIS: He doesn't have a name placard at the ceremony. NGUYEN: Can you imagine though? Could you imagine standing up and objecting to it

HARRIS: Yes, yes, yes, I could see it happening.

NGUYEN: Oh, what an awkward moment that would be.

HARRIS: You got that right.

(LAUGHTER)

HARRIS: Coming up in our second hour of LIVE FROM, we're live from Brussels, Belgium, where President Bush is meeting with European leaders.

NGUYEN: And get the latest on that missing family in Texas. A potentially important find in the search. More LIVE FROM after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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