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Chicago Murder Victim was Well Liked; Authorities Downplay Information Found on Bombing Suspect; School Bus Driver Killed, Suspect 15 Years Old; Iraqi Judge Assassinated

Aired March 02, 2005 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COMMISSIONER RAY KELLY, NEW YORK POLICE DEPARTMENT: It shows, you might say, the secondary room of the Grand Central Station.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Are terrorists targeting Grand Central Station? A suspect in the Madrid train bombings reportedly had the drawings.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: On the trail of Osama bin Laden: a former FBI agent on OBL's trail before 9/11 says the U.S. blew some big chances.

PHILLIPS: A school bus driver, shot on her mourning route. Students on board witnessed the whole thing. A student now in custody. We're live from Cumberland City, Tennessee.

From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Kyra Phillips.

O'BRIEN: And I'm Miles O'Brien. CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.

PHILLIPS: A broken window, a suspicious car, a string of phone calls that may have come from a jail. Media reports out of Chicago littered with potential clues or red herrings in the killing of the husband and elderly mother of a federal judge, Joan Humphrey Lefkow.

A white supremacist grudge still the talk of the town, but investigators say it's far too early to favor one theory over any other.

What's not in dispute is the Lefkows' image as a pair of high achievers who did well by doing good. More on that from reporter Dane Placko of CNN affiliate WFLD in Chicago.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They were the most gracious couple that anybody would ever want to know.

DANE PLACKO, WFLD REPORTER (voice-over): On the Lefkows' block, just beyond the police tape, a card and a flower remain tacked to a wall. Neighbors say the couple was well liked, often seen walking through the neighborhood, hand in hand.

OLICHKA SOPENA, LEFKOWS' NEIGHBOR: I truly believe they are the perfect family. They're very kind and sincere. And very generous.

PLACKO: Michael Lefkow spent his career in law, trying to give a voice to the voiceless. Lefkow graduated from Northwestern University Law School. Then, for years, worked on behalf of the poor at the Legal Assistance Project of Chicago, twice arguing welfare cases before the U.S. Supreme Court.

More recently, Lefkow joined a civil rights law firm, his now empty office filled with pictures of his family. A partner says Lefkow was upset about late year's death threats against his wife.

BILL SPIELBERGER, LEFKOW'S LAW PARTNER: It had an impact upon his family life. I know his family was under special protection for a long time. That cannot have -- but have an effect upon your family life. He was apprehensive about -- about people coming in to the office.

PLACKO: The Lefkows and their four daughters were active members of St. Luke's Episcopal Church in Evanston. Security measures were taken last year when white supremacists threatened to picket the church. It never materialized.

REV. CHARLES KASKEY, LEFKOWS' FORMER PASTOR: It's just a wonderful family that had been very active in the community, very active in the church, and support anyone who is the underdog.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: All right. It's exceedingly rare for a judge at any level to suffer harm from an angry litigant. And if the Chicago murders are, in fact, traced to a case before Judge Lefkow, they will be unprecedented acts of vengeance against a judge's family. So says the judicial security division of the U.S. marshals.

Threats against judges are far more common, as former U.S. justice Leslie Crocker Snyder knows first hand. She was a guest on CNN's "AMERICAN MORNING."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LESLIE CROCKER SNYDER, FORMER U.S. JUSTICE: This is kind of everybody's worst nightmare. I know that when my entire family was threatened with death I was fortunate to have the New York City police department move right in and protect all of us. My kids went to school with two cop each. And still at 3 a.m. in the morning I'd wake up in a cold sweat, worrying about that.

It's one thing to put your own life in danger; it's another thing to have your family in danger. And this is just your worst nightmare.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: CNN law enforcement analyst Mike Brooks checks in with more details and insights on the Chicago case in the second hour of LIVE FROM, a little less than 90 minutes from now.

PHILLIPS: Articles of faith or artifacts of history? The 10 Commandments have divided judges and communities virtually since Moses, in Judeo-Christian tradition, received them from God almighty.

Well, today, those divisions turned up at the highest judicial authority in the United States. The Supreme Court heard cases from Kentucky and Texas over the church-state implications for commandment displays on government property.

Opponents see an unconstitutional government endorsement of religion. But supporters say God is invoked in word or symbol in all sorts of public facility and functions, including those of the Supreme Court. A decision is due this summer.

O'BRIEN: Interesting, says the FBI; old news, says New York's mayor; not relevant, says a police source in Madrid, where a sketch and computer disc seized by police almost a year ago, apparently, possibly, debatably, predict an alarming level of interest in New York's Grand Central terminal.

The materials were found in a Madrid apartment linked to suspects in the devastating Madrid train bombing on March 11, 2003.

New York Police Commissioner Ray Kelly addressed their significance in a news conference you see -- saw here on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLY: The material has been linked to an individual involved in the Madrid bombings. However, we have no information to indicate that these drawings were part of an operational plan to attack Grand Central Station.

It differs from other intelligence that we have received in the past. For example, the material did not include the specificity and detailed reconnaissance activity that accompanied the information on the al-Hindi computer files concerning Citicorp and the New York Stock Exchange. So in that respect, the discovery of this material did not cause the same level of concern as the al-Hindi material did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: The al-Hindi information Kelly speaks of is the intel that prompted security alerts in parts of New York, Newark and Washington last August.

More now on the current information and what it may mean from CNN homeland security correspondent Jeanne Meserve.

And Jeanne, we're talking about information which came to light back in March of 2004, almost a year now. And all of a sudden this comes to light. Is it really relevant beyond a story that is of interest to us?

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the U.S. government officials with whom I have spoken are not expressing any alarm about this information. It was received by the FBI and CIA late last year and passed on at that time to New York City and to transit officials.

Ray Kelly, New York's police commissioner, said this morning that security had already been increased in the wake of the Madrid bombings, and nothing in this material caused them to make changes in security plans.

This information is described as a couple of sketches that had been scanned onto a computer. It was not specific or technical, according to Department of Homeland Security. And U.S. officials do not believe that the information would be useful for developing any operational plans.

One official with whom I spoke said the sketches were of areas easily visible to the general public. Ray Kelly, as you heard, said they were amateur renderings in no way comparable to the material seized in Pakistan, which led to the hike in the threat level last summer.

That material, you may recall, was astonishing in its detail. It had details about security layouts, parking garages, the structure of the buildings.

One FBI official said this morning of these sketches, and I quote here, "What does it mean? It is without any context. Is it for certain Grand Central Station? Who drew it? It appears at first to be suspicious, but it may not be."

So add that all up, and it tells you they're not very alarmed here in Washington -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: And I guess what it does is underscore what is obvious to anybody, that something like Grand Central would be a target.

MESERVE: Sure. They've always been concerned about rail and about subways. This is critical infrastructure in this country. They could look back on the sarin gas attacks that took place in Tokyo and know that this would be a perfect venue for some sort of mass casualty event.

They have been looking at it, doing vulnerability studies. They have been doing things like testing how to screen passenger and luggage on board certain kinds of trains.

But it's a very porous system. As you know, you get on at any number of locations. It's not like an airport, where you have a central place where people are boarding. So it's hard to construct a security regime here.

They've pumped about $1.5 million into the system in the form of security grants. But I talked to someone with the BART system out in San Francisco just last week, and she was saying to me they still aren't paying enough attention. They still aren't pumping enough money into rail security in this country -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Jeanne Meserve in Washington, thanks very much.

CNN, of course, committed to providing the most reliable coverage of news that affects your security. Stay tuned to CNN for the latest information day and night.

PHILLIPS: And this just in to CNN. A car bomb reported in western Baghdad. Right now, no report of casualties. Iraqi police are making this report, saying that the car bomb detonated near a Sunni mosque in the western part of Baghdad. We'll have Nic Robertson up live, coming up right after the break.

Also, straight ahead, a school bus driver shot and killed as she drove her morning route. A student is now in custody, and a CNN affiliate reporter is live on the scene of that shooting. We're going to check in with her in just a moment, straight ahead on LIVE FROM.

ANNOUNCER: You're watching LIVE FROM on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Developing story in northern Tennessee to tell you about. A school bus driver taking a busload of kids to school, shot dead. A student is in custody.

Holly Harris of CNN affiliate WSMV joining us from Cumberland City with details -- Holly.

HOLLY HARRIS, WSMV REPORTER: We are still learning information about this crime. It continues to come in moment by moment.

But we are in a very tight-knit community. There's only one stoplight here in Stewart County. So already in such a close knit area, we've learned a great deal about this crime.

From what we understand it happened around 6:30 this morning. That's when we're told a 15-year-old came out of his Cumberland City home. And as the door to the bus opened, he pulled out a gun and shot the driver several times.

The woman was pronounced dead here at the scene, only feet from the alleged shooter's home. Witnesses to the crime, a busload of Stewart County students, ranging from kindergarten to 18 years old.

For over an hour, TBI interviewed the students to learn what they saw and heard this morning. One mother tells me that her daughter called quite early to tell her that a friend had just shot the driver.

A neighbor describes the alleged shooter as friendly, also levelheaded, says that he's in complete disbelief over what has taken place here.

And a grandmother I spoke to early on who had two granddaughters on the bus said everyone feels betrayed by the alleged shooter. His family is a deep-rooted Stewart County family. Everyone's familiar with him. Again, no one can quite believe what has taken place. So here at the scene, you can tell, right over my shoulder, the alleged shooter's home is there to the left. Just moments ago, investigators left. They just removed the body from the bus. And about 10 minutes ago, pulled the bus out of this area.

And once it took place, initially, a home to the right, you can see just across the way, they asked the kids to remove themselves from the bus. They all went inside that home for safekeeping so investigators could go over the scene, try to determine what took place.

Early word is, right now, no one saw this coming. They say he was a good kid, good-hearted. The only indication that there might have been any trouble: his family took in foster students and foster kids, and they say some of the older boys that lived in the home were a bit tough on him. One of his friends says that they beat him up.

And that is, again, just speculation at this point, that he said he'd become angry over the way he was treated. But he describes the family as quite loving. So, again, shock here in rural Stewart County.

Back to you.

O'BRIEN: Holly, just a quick final point. Do we know what sort of weapon it was?

HARRIS: Sure, we do know that it was a gun, reportedly taken from the father's home inside. But they say, again, they want to point out everyone in Stewart County hunts, that this boy himself had been in hunting contests. So no indication that there had been any trouble earlier on. But they do believe at this point it had come from inside the home.

O'BRIEN: Handgun or rifle gun, do you know?

HARRIS: They have not given us -- they have not given us confirmation on that, but I can tell you today at 2 p.m., the D.A. here in Stewart County, also, TBI is going to speak. And they're going to get real specific. We have not had access to that information yet.

O'BRIEN: Holly Harris of WSMV, thank you very much -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: A judge and lawyer assigned to the war crimes tribunal that will try Saddam Hussein and his former henchmen have been assassinated in Baghdad. The two were father and son and apparently not the only targets of insurgents today.

CNN senior international correspondent Nic Robertson is live in Baghdad.

Nic, begin with the latest car bombing. Then let's talk about the assassination.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, the latest that we have is that the car bombing took place at a mosque just about half an hour ago. A Sunni mosque on the western side of Baghdad, close to the very dangerous highway that links the center of Baghdad to the airport on the perimeter of the city.

What we have just learned quite literally in the last few minutes is that this car bomb occurred when the mosque would have been full in the evening, with a nighttime prayer-goers. People go to the mosque five times a day to pray. They were there for the final prayers of the day, at about 8:45 in the evening here.

Two police sources have told us that the car bombing was targeting the mosque, targeting the people inside the mosque. We don't have information about casualties. At this time it is still too early. It is very much a developing situation here.

What is very unusual about this is -- is that it targets a Sunni mosque and, very unusually, it comes in the evening, when it's dark. It's very unusual to have attacks in Baghdad at this time of night.

Having said that, the day started unusually, the attacks coming in Baghdad quite early this morning, again, earlier than normal, 7 a.m., the first blast, targeting Iraqi army recruits outside a base, killing six, wounding 28. Two hours later, another Iraqi army convoy targeted, seven people killed and two wounded.

And we had information late last night from police that a lawyer working on the special tribunal that will be trying Saddam Hussein here in Iraq was gunned down outside his house with his son, who is also a lawyer, working on the tribunal. The judge, Barwez Mohammed Mahmoud, working on that special tribunal, one of several dozen judges. And that coming just after the tribunal had begun hearing its very, very first case -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Now let's talk about this judge and lawyer assigned to try Saddam Hussein and this assassination, how is this going to affect the overall judicial process and all the work that's been put forward to get this tribunal ready to go?

ROBERTSON: Well, the tribunal works this way. There are many cases and many people to look at. The first case of -- the tribunal's looking at involves Saddam Hussein's half-brother, the former vice president Taha Yassin Ramadan, and three other people.

They had their case referred. That's the first stage. They had their case referred on Monday. That involved the killings and imprisonment of people following an assassination attempt on Saddam Hussein in 1982.

That referral process places the investigation from the investigative judge, of which the judge who was killed was, takes the investigation from him and passes it to several dozen judges in Baghdad, in the judge's chambers.

There are many judges who will -- who could be picked upon to sit in those tribunals. Each tribunal is a panel of five judges. So will this single killing impact the process? That seems unlikely. Will it mean that there will be more security attention paid to the judges and all of those -- there are some 200 people, Iraqis who work on the special tribunal -- will more security attention be focused on them? Very possibly.

It is -- it does seem that there -- the judge was a weak point within the judicial setup, weak inasmuch as the insurgents could kill him -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Nic Robertson, live from Baghdad. Thanks very much, Nic. We'll follow up.

More LIVE FROM right after this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS (voice-over): Next on LIVE FROM, he was hot on the trail of Osama bin Laden before September 11. Find out what this former FBI agent says America is doing wrong to try and catch him.

Later on LIVE FROM...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn't sue Christianity. I sued the government.

PHILLIPS: The display of the Ten Commandments argued before the Supreme Court today. So why will this man sleep in a tent tonight?

And later on LIVE FROM...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wonderful, wonderful man.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What a sweetheart.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can't explain the appreciation I feel.

PHILLIPS: Would you talk this way about your boss? You would if he closed up shop and took you to Disney World.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: It's an honor that many Americans would call long overdue, and not just baseball fans.

The family of the late Jackie Robinson accepting the Congressional Gold Medal today at the Capitol. It's the highest civilian honor Congress can bestow.

The event comes at the end of Black History Month and commemorates Robinson's feat in breaking Major League Baseball's racial barriers. Robinson's son, David, says when his dad joined the Brooklyn Dodgers in 1946, it not only changed sports, but American society. Speaking of awards you can't call him "sir," because he's not a British citizen, but no matter what, Microsoft founder Bill Gates still has the queen's stamp of approval. Gates was knighted today for his dedication to a long list of charitable endeavors and, of course, in recognition of his contributions to enterprise in the U.K., even if its head of state is not technologically inclined.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did the queen say she uses Microsoft or the computer?

BILL GATES, MICROSOFT FOUNDER: She says all the kids do, and the computers help schedule things. But she said she herself -- typing's not as natural for her as it is for young people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: So the queen is not exactly surfing the Web. There's a news flash, huh, Kyra? We'll have to get her -- get her online.

All right, Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan back on Capitol Hill today. I am not conversing in Green-speak so what we do is we hand this over to the experts. Kathleen Hays right now can decipher the great comments.

(STOCK REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Now in the news, we've learned in the last hour of the death of former Florida congresswoman Tillie Fowler. She died in Jacksonville with her family at her side two days after suffering a brain hemorrhage. Fowler was 62. She served four terms as a Republican in Congress.

The search is on for a new boss to run the Martha Stewart magazine empire. Publisher Suzanne Sobel has resigned. Stewart herself is due to leave prison this week. She's going to put under -- she'll be put under house arrest, rather, at her $60 million estate just north of New York City but will be allowed out of the house to go to work.

Steve Fossett's bid to fly non-stop around the globe may be running out of gas, literally. His mission control team says there are big problems with his fuel system. The question: will he keep going and cross the Pacific or abandon the flight? We may get the answer at a briefing expected about a half hour from now. We'll keep you posted.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired March 2, 2005 - 13:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COMMISSIONER RAY KELLY, NEW YORK POLICE DEPARTMENT: It shows, you might say, the secondary room of the Grand Central Station.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Are terrorists targeting Grand Central Station? A suspect in the Madrid train bombings reportedly had the drawings.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: On the trail of Osama bin Laden: a former FBI agent on OBL's trail before 9/11 says the U.S. blew some big chances.

PHILLIPS: A school bus driver, shot on her mourning route. Students on board witnessed the whole thing. A student now in custody. We're live from Cumberland City, Tennessee.

From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Kyra Phillips.

O'BRIEN: And I'm Miles O'Brien. CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.

PHILLIPS: A broken window, a suspicious car, a string of phone calls that may have come from a jail. Media reports out of Chicago littered with potential clues or red herrings in the killing of the husband and elderly mother of a federal judge, Joan Humphrey Lefkow.

A white supremacist grudge still the talk of the town, but investigators say it's far too early to favor one theory over any other.

What's not in dispute is the Lefkows' image as a pair of high achievers who did well by doing good. More on that from reporter Dane Placko of CNN affiliate WFLD in Chicago.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They were the most gracious couple that anybody would ever want to know.

DANE PLACKO, WFLD REPORTER (voice-over): On the Lefkows' block, just beyond the police tape, a card and a flower remain tacked to a wall. Neighbors say the couple was well liked, often seen walking through the neighborhood, hand in hand.

OLICHKA SOPENA, LEFKOWS' NEIGHBOR: I truly believe they are the perfect family. They're very kind and sincere. And very generous.

PLACKO: Michael Lefkow spent his career in law, trying to give a voice to the voiceless. Lefkow graduated from Northwestern University Law School. Then, for years, worked on behalf of the poor at the Legal Assistance Project of Chicago, twice arguing welfare cases before the U.S. Supreme Court.

More recently, Lefkow joined a civil rights law firm, his now empty office filled with pictures of his family. A partner says Lefkow was upset about late year's death threats against his wife.

BILL SPIELBERGER, LEFKOW'S LAW PARTNER: It had an impact upon his family life. I know his family was under special protection for a long time. That cannot have -- but have an effect upon your family life. He was apprehensive about -- about people coming in to the office.

PLACKO: The Lefkows and their four daughters were active members of St. Luke's Episcopal Church in Evanston. Security measures were taken last year when white supremacists threatened to picket the church. It never materialized.

REV. CHARLES KASKEY, LEFKOWS' FORMER PASTOR: It's just a wonderful family that had been very active in the community, very active in the church, and support anyone who is the underdog.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: All right. It's exceedingly rare for a judge at any level to suffer harm from an angry litigant. And if the Chicago murders are, in fact, traced to a case before Judge Lefkow, they will be unprecedented acts of vengeance against a judge's family. So says the judicial security division of the U.S. marshals.

Threats against judges are far more common, as former U.S. justice Leslie Crocker Snyder knows first hand. She was a guest on CNN's "AMERICAN MORNING."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LESLIE CROCKER SNYDER, FORMER U.S. JUSTICE: This is kind of everybody's worst nightmare. I know that when my entire family was threatened with death I was fortunate to have the New York City police department move right in and protect all of us. My kids went to school with two cop each. And still at 3 a.m. in the morning I'd wake up in a cold sweat, worrying about that.

It's one thing to put your own life in danger; it's another thing to have your family in danger. And this is just your worst nightmare.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: CNN law enforcement analyst Mike Brooks checks in with more details and insights on the Chicago case in the second hour of LIVE FROM, a little less than 90 minutes from now.

PHILLIPS: Articles of faith or artifacts of history? The 10 Commandments have divided judges and communities virtually since Moses, in Judeo-Christian tradition, received them from God almighty.

Well, today, those divisions turned up at the highest judicial authority in the United States. The Supreme Court heard cases from Kentucky and Texas over the church-state implications for commandment displays on government property.

Opponents see an unconstitutional government endorsement of religion. But supporters say God is invoked in word or symbol in all sorts of public facility and functions, including those of the Supreme Court. A decision is due this summer.

O'BRIEN: Interesting, says the FBI; old news, says New York's mayor; not relevant, says a police source in Madrid, where a sketch and computer disc seized by police almost a year ago, apparently, possibly, debatably, predict an alarming level of interest in New York's Grand Central terminal.

The materials were found in a Madrid apartment linked to suspects in the devastating Madrid train bombing on March 11, 2003.

New York Police Commissioner Ray Kelly addressed their significance in a news conference you see -- saw here on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLY: The material has been linked to an individual involved in the Madrid bombings. However, we have no information to indicate that these drawings were part of an operational plan to attack Grand Central Station.

It differs from other intelligence that we have received in the past. For example, the material did not include the specificity and detailed reconnaissance activity that accompanied the information on the al-Hindi computer files concerning Citicorp and the New York Stock Exchange. So in that respect, the discovery of this material did not cause the same level of concern as the al-Hindi material did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: The al-Hindi information Kelly speaks of is the intel that prompted security alerts in parts of New York, Newark and Washington last August.

More now on the current information and what it may mean from CNN homeland security correspondent Jeanne Meserve.

And Jeanne, we're talking about information which came to light back in March of 2004, almost a year now. And all of a sudden this comes to light. Is it really relevant beyond a story that is of interest to us?

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the U.S. government officials with whom I have spoken are not expressing any alarm about this information. It was received by the FBI and CIA late last year and passed on at that time to New York City and to transit officials.

Ray Kelly, New York's police commissioner, said this morning that security had already been increased in the wake of the Madrid bombings, and nothing in this material caused them to make changes in security plans.

This information is described as a couple of sketches that had been scanned onto a computer. It was not specific or technical, according to Department of Homeland Security. And U.S. officials do not believe that the information would be useful for developing any operational plans.

One official with whom I spoke said the sketches were of areas easily visible to the general public. Ray Kelly, as you heard, said they were amateur renderings in no way comparable to the material seized in Pakistan, which led to the hike in the threat level last summer.

That material, you may recall, was astonishing in its detail. It had details about security layouts, parking garages, the structure of the buildings.

One FBI official said this morning of these sketches, and I quote here, "What does it mean? It is without any context. Is it for certain Grand Central Station? Who drew it? It appears at first to be suspicious, but it may not be."

So add that all up, and it tells you they're not very alarmed here in Washington -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: And I guess what it does is underscore what is obvious to anybody, that something like Grand Central would be a target.

MESERVE: Sure. They've always been concerned about rail and about subways. This is critical infrastructure in this country. They could look back on the sarin gas attacks that took place in Tokyo and know that this would be a perfect venue for some sort of mass casualty event.

They have been looking at it, doing vulnerability studies. They have been doing things like testing how to screen passenger and luggage on board certain kinds of trains.

But it's a very porous system. As you know, you get on at any number of locations. It's not like an airport, where you have a central place where people are boarding. So it's hard to construct a security regime here.

They've pumped about $1.5 million into the system in the form of security grants. But I talked to someone with the BART system out in San Francisco just last week, and she was saying to me they still aren't paying enough attention. They still aren't pumping enough money into rail security in this country -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Jeanne Meserve in Washington, thanks very much.

CNN, of course, committed to providing the most reliable coverage of news that affects your security. Stay tuned to CNN for the latest information day and night.

PHILLIPS: And this just in to CNN. A car bomb reported in western Baghdad. Right now, no report of casualties. Iraqi police are making this report, saying that the car bomb detonated near a Sunni mosque in the western part of Baghdad. We'll have Nic Robertson up live, coming up right after the break.

Also, straight ahead, a school bus driver shot and killed as she drove her morning route. A student is now in custody, and a CNN affiliate reporter is live on the scene of that shooting. We're going to check in with her in just a moment, straight ahead on LIVE FROM.

ANNOUNCER: You're watching LIVE FROM on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Developing story in northern Tennessee to tell you about. A school bus driver taking a busload of kids to school, shot dead. A student is in custody.

Holly Harris of CNN affiliate WSMV joining us from Cumberland City with details -- Holly.

HOLLY HARRIS, WSMV REPORTER: We are still learning information about this crime. It continues to come in moment by moment.

But we are in a very tight-knit community. There's only one stoplight here in Stewart County. So already in such a close knit area, we've learned a great deal about this crime.

From what we understand it happened around 6:30 this morning. That's when we're told a 15-year-old came out of his Cumberland City home. And as the door to the bus opened, he pulled out a gun and shot the driver several times.

The woman was pronounced dead here at the scene, only feet from the alleged shooter's home. Witnesses to the crime, a busload of Stewart County students, ranging from kindergarten to 18 years old.

For over an hour, TBI interviewed the students to learn what they saw and heard this morning. One mother tells me that her daughter called quite early to tell her that a friend had just shot the driver.

A neighbor describes the alleged shooter as friendly, also levelheaded, says that he's in complete disbelief over what has taken place here.

And a grandmother I spoke to early on who had two granddaughters on the bus said everyone feels betrayed by the alleged shooter. His family is a deep-rooted Stewart County family. Everyone's familiar with him. Again, no one can quite believe what has taken place. So here at the scene, you can tell, right over my shoulder, the alleged shooter's home is there to the left. Just moments ago, investigators left. They just removed the body from the bus. And about 10 minutes ago, pulled the bus out of this area.

And once it took place, initially, a home to the right, you can see just across the way, they asked the kids to remove themselves from the bus. They all went inside that home for safekeeping so investigators could go over the scene, try to determine what took place.

Early word is, right now, no one saw this coming. They say he was a good kid, good-hearted. The only indication that there might have been any trouble: his family took in foster students and foster kids, and they say some of the older boys that lived in the home were a bit tough on him. One of his friends says that they beat him up.

And that is, again, just speculation at this point, that he said he'd become angry over the way he was treated. But he describes the family as quite loving. So, again, shock here in rural Stewart County.

Back to you.

O'BRIEN: Holly, just a quick final point. Do we know what sort of weapon it was?

HARRIS: Sure, we do know that it was a gun, reportedly taken from the father's home inside. But they say, again, they want to point out everyone in Stewart County hunts, that this boy himself had been in hunting contests. So no indication that there had been any trouble earlier on. But they do believe at this point it had come from inside the home.

O'BRIEN: Handgun or rifle gun, do you know?

HARRIS: They have not given us -- they have not given us confirmation on that, but I can tell you today at 2 p.m., the D.A. here in Stewart County, also, TBI is going to speak. And they're going to get real specific. We have not had access to that information yet.

O'BRIEN: Holly Harris of WSMV, thank you very much -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: A judge and lawyer assigned to the war crimes tribunal that will try Saddam Hussein and his former henchmen have been assassinated in Baghdad. The two were father and son and apparently not the only targets of insurgents today.

CNN senior international correspondent Nic Robertson is live in Baghdad.

Nic, begin with the latest car bombing. Then let's talk about the assassination.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, the latest that we have is that the car bombing took place at a mosque just about half an hour ago. A Sunni mosque on the western side of Baghdad, close to the very dangerous highway that links the center of Baghdad to the airport on the perimeter of the city.

What we have just learned quite literally in the last few minutes is that this car bomb occurred when the mosque would have been full in the evening, with a nighttime prayer-goers. People go to the mosque five times a day to pray. They were there for the final prayers of the day, at about 8:45 in the evening here.

Two police sources have told us that the car bombing was targeting the mosque, targeting the people inside the mosque. We don't have information about casualties. At this time it is still too early. It is very much a developing situation here.

What is very unusual about this is -- is that it targets a Sunni mosque and, very unusually, it comes in the evening, when it's dark. It's very unusual to have attacks in Baghdad at this time of night.

Having said that, the day started unusually, the attacks coming in Baghdad quite early this morning, again, earlier than normal, 7 a.m., the first blast, targeting Iraqi army recruits outside a base, killing six, wounding 28. Two hours later, another Iraqi army convoy targeted, seven people killed and two wounded.

And we had information late last night from police that a lawyer working on the special tribunal that will be trying Saddam Hussein here in Iraq was gunned down outside his house with his son, who is also a lawyer, working on the tribunal. The judge, Barwez Mohammed Mahmoud, working on that special tribunal, one of several dozen judges. And that coming just after the tribunal had begun hearing its very, very first case -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Now let's talk about this judge and lawyer assigned to try Saddam Hussein and this assassination, how is this going to affect the overall judicial process and all the work that's been put forward to get this tribunal ready to go?

ROBERTSON: Well, the tribunal works this way. There are many cases and many people to look at. The first case of -- the tribunal's looking at involves Saddam Hussein's half-brother, the former vice president Taha Yassin Ramadan, and three other people.

They had their case referred. That's the first stage. They had their case referred on Monday. That involved the killings and imprisonment of people following an assassination attempt on Saddam Hussein in 1982.

That referral process places the investigation from the investigative judge, of which the judge who was killed was, takes the investigation from him and passes it to several dozen judges in Baghdad, in the judge's chambers.

There are many judges who will -- who could be picked upon to sit in those tribunals. Each tribunal is a panel of five judges. So will this single killing impact the process? That seems unlikely. Will it mean that there will be more security attention paid to the judges and all of those -- there are some 200 people, Iraqis who work on the special tribunal -- will more security attention be focused on them? Very possibly.

It is -- it does seem that there -- the judge was a weak point within the judicial setup, weak inasmuch as the insurgents could kill him -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Nic Robertson, live from Baghdad. Thanks very much, Nic. We'll follow up.

More LIVE FROM right after this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS (voice-over): Next on LIVE FROM, he was hot on the trail of Osama bin Laden before September 11. Find out what this former FBI agent says America is doing wrong to try and catch him.

Later on LIVE FROM...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn't sue Christianity. I sued the government.

PHILLIPS: The display of the Ten Commandments argued before the Supreme Court today. So why will this man sleep in a tent tonight?

And later on LIVE FROM...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wonderful, wonderful man.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What a sweetheart.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can't explain the appreciation I feel.

PHILLIPS: Would you talk this way about your boss? You would if he closed up shop and took you to Disney World.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: It's an honor that many Americans would call long overdue, and not just baseball fans.

The family of the late Jackie Robinson accepting the Congressional Gold Medal today at the Capitol. It's the highest civilian honor Congress can bestow.

The event comes at the end of Black History Month and commemorates Robinson's feat in breaking Major League Baseball's racial barriers. Robinson's son, David, says when his dad joined the Brooklyn Dodgers in 1946, it not only changed sports, but American society. Speaking of awards you can't call him "sir," because he's not a British citizen, but no matter what, Microsoft founder Bill Gates still has the queen's stamp of approval. Gates was knighted today for his dedication to a long list of charitable endeavors and, of course, in recognition of his contributions to enterprise in the U.K., even if its head of state is not technologically inclined.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did the queen say she uses Microsoft or the computer?

BILL GATES, MICROSOFT FOUNDER: She says all the kids do, and the computers help schedule things. But she said she herself -- typing's not as natural for her as it is for young people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: So the queen is not exactly surfing the Web. There's a news flash, huh, Kyra? We'll have to get her -- get her online.

All right, Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan back on Capitol Hill today. I am not conversing in Green-speak so what we do is we hand this over to the experts. Kathleen Hays right now can decipher the great comments.

(STOCK REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Now in the news, we've learned in the last hour of the death of former Florida congresswoman Tillie Fowler. She died in Jacksonville with her family at her side two days after suffering a brain hemorrhage. Fowler was 62. She served four terms as a Republican in Congress.

The search is on for a new boss to run the Martha Stewart magazine empire. Publisher Suzanne Sobel has resigned. Stewart herself is due to leave prison this week. She's going to put under -- she'll be put under house arrest, rather, at her $60 million estate just north of New York City but will be allowed out of the house to go to work.

Steve Fossett's bid to fly non-stop around the globe may be running out of gas, literally. His mission control team says there are big problems with his fuel system. The question: will he keep going and cross the Pacific or abandon the flight? We may get the answer at a briefing expected about a half hour from now. We'll keep you posted.

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