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President Bush Pushes Energy Reform; Terrorists Buying Guns in America?

Aired March 09, 2005 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Wyoming is low, California high, everywhere else in between, and all are getting higher. We're talking about gas prices, on average, $2 a gallon for self-serve regular. But that's only a distant dream in Bridgeport, California.
Drivers there are paying the nation's highest average fuel price, $2.79 a gallon. Rock Springs, Wyoming, enjoys the cheapest gas, $1.72. And, as you know if you've been watching CNN, President Bush is in Columbus, Ohio, average gas price, $1.95, to pump up support for his energy proposals, proposals that have gone exactly nowhere in four years on Capitol Hill.

CNN's Suzanne Malveaux, gears down long enough to bring us a recap.

Hi, Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, hello, Kyra.

Of course, you may consider getting out your bicycle when you take a look at those oil prices, those gas prices. And it's expected to rise, of course. Here in Ohio, it's a big manufacturing state, as well as a state that experienced that electrical grid problem, that blackout last year, so it makes sense that the president is here to push forward his energy plan.

He very briefly mentioned the situation with the gas prices, but he really used the backdrop of Battelle Memorial Institute, a large research institution, to show and push forward his energy plan. Congress, of course, has not supported this for the last four years or so, but the president urging Americans to take a clear look, a close look at the clean coal technology, modernizing the electricity grid, increasing oil production in the United States.

And that includes the controversial proposal, drilling in Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, the president specifically talking about that, saying it would be about 2,000 acres, the size of Columbus' airport, but would produce about one million barrels of oil a day, that it would create thousands of new jobs, President Bush very adamant about pushing forward his energy plan he hopes will pass his second term.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Higher prices at the gas pump and rising home heating bills and the possibility of blackouts are legitimate concerns for all Americans. And all these uncertainties about energy supply are dragging our economy. It is difficult for entrepreneurs to risk capital when they cannot predict the size of next month's energy bill.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: So, Kyra, the president's line here, of course, is that the economy is strong, but these high energy prices really a drag on the economy, that somehow the United States must become less dependent on foreign sources of oil.

Now, this is a big debate, a very heated debate, as you know, very political. It was earlier today in Washington a group of senators, a small group of Democrats, led by Senator Chuck Schumer, produced a letter here that they gave to the president, to the administration saying that they would like for him to tap the Strategic Oil Reserves to somehow lower those gas prices, a controversial proposal. They brought that up in the past. And here's what he said earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: These are out-of-control prices. They're burning a whole in hole in Americans' wallets. They're putting at risk the economic recovery. And what are they doing at the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue? Twiddling their thumbs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: And already, we got a response from the White House about that, saying that the president does not intend to actually tap into those reserves. Previously, he was asked to do that. He said it would only be in the case of real national emergencies and not for any kind of political cause or manipulating gas prices. That did not go over.

And, Kyra, just to let you know as well, the president, however, was slammed on his Clear Skies Initiative, so-called Clear Skies Initiative, when it comes to power plants, a Senate committee saying that they would not push that forward. This is clearly going to be a very controversial issue, and it will continue -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, Suzanne Malveaux, thanks so much -- Miles.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: A report out today casts serious doubts about the government's fix on Iran and its nuclear aspirations, "The New York Times" saying a report commissioned by President Bush has found U.S. intelligence so subpar that Iran's intentions are far from clear.

This comes as Washington is warning Iran and accusing it of seeking nuclear weapons. An unidentified official quoted as saying that the lack of useful intelligence is scandalous.

Discrepancies still in the shooting at an Iraq checkpoint that killed an Italian agent and wounded a just- released hostage. Italy's prime minister, addressing his parliament today, he said the U.S. military knew that the convoy was headed to the airport. Silvio Berlusconi says he also understands the car was moving slowly and that the driver braked at the first warning.

U.S. military officials say the car was approaching very fast and ignored repeated warnings to stop.

PHILLIPS: That highway to Baghdad's airport is said to be the most dangerous road in Iraq.

Our senior international correspondent, Nic Robertson, has traveled it more times than he cares to counts and knows firsthand the tensions on both sides of the checkpoints.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Firing low.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Firing low.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): At a U.S. checkpoint a year ago, I saw the aftermath of an Iraqi shot when he failed to stop. At the time, the soldiers feared he might have been an insurgent, and had tried to disable his car to save their lives.

Later that year, and 65 miles away, Miqdad Abdull, a former Iraqi general, says a similar thing happened to him. He points to the windshield of his car where, he says, he was shot at by U.S. soldiers at a checkpoint.

MIQDAD ABDULL, FORMER IRAQI GENERAL (through translator): The first shot was a killer shot. And this I know from my experience. I ducked, and the shooting lasted for about another 15 seconds.

ROBERTSON: He shows photographs of the many bullet holes through the windshield of his car, and of his own injuries, lays out police maps, and a note apparently written by a U.S. Army officer. It reads, This vehicle failed to stop for a coalition traffic point. The vehicle was engaged and hit by small-arms fire.

He claims not to have seen the warning for him to stop.

ABDULL (through translator): In my personal opinion, people fear these checkpoints more than they fear other attacks and explosions.

ROBERTSON: This day, at a checkpoint on the highway to Baghdad International Airport, the most dangerous road in Iraq, two Iraqi drivers get confused about how to proceed.

(on camera): This is exactly where Iraqi drivers worry the most, they say. They're coming into a checkpoint here, and what they say they fear is that they may be mistaken for a suicide bomber. And that's why this area, they say, is the most dangerous, because they could be shot at.

(voice-over): No one has an accurate account of how many Iraqis and others have been injured in this way, but commanders say they are committed to avoiding casualties.

MAJ. GEN. WILLIAM WEBSTER, U.S. ARMY: We've trained our soldiers, and we continue to retrain them on techniques of causing a vehicle to slow down and stop far enough away where it doesn't present the threat of an explosive device.

ROBERTSON: And in Iraq, explosive devices like that go off 40 to 60 times every day.

The threat that worries the soldiers the most is the suicide car bomber. So every time a car comes close to them, they told me, it's a critical moment where self-preservation forces a fast decision.

WEBSTER: If the vehicle looks like a threat of lethal force to the soldier guarding the position, then we may fire warning shots into the ground next to the vehicle. And then we instruct our soldiers to engage the engine block, if they possibly can, to disable the vehicle, and try not to kill anyone.

ROBERTSON: On Iraq's roads, on both sides of the checkpoint, caution remains the watchword.

Nic Robertson, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: And today in Iraq, an unnamed American soldier was killed in a roadside bombing in Baghdad. The government's planning minister escaped assassination when gunman assaulted his convoy. Also in the capital city, a garbage truck packed with explosives blew up near a downtown hotel, killing two people and the suicide bomber; 40 people were injured, including 30 American contractors.

Still in Iraq, officials investigate the horrific deaths of 26 people killed execution style. The bodies were found in a village near the Syrian border. All were clothed civilian style. And the dead included at least one woman.

O'BRIEN: Well, they may not be able to get on an airplane, but people on America's terror watch list are able to buy guns.

And that has some people in Washington up in arms. It should have you up in arms. That story is straight ahead.

And cryptic messages from prison, reports that white supremacist Matthew Hale might be trying to get secret messages to his followers. Details ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(WEATHER UPDATE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: News across America now. An attorney for jailed white supremacist Matthew Hale reportedly says he was asked to pass a cryptic message to one of Hale's supporters. The attorney tells "The New York Times" and the Associated Press that Hale's mother asked him months ago to pass along the message. He says he declined. Hale has been a focus of the investigation into the killings of a federal judge's family in Chicago.

Park rangers within the past couple of hours rescued hikers on Tennessee's Appalachian Trail. The hikers set out Sunday, only to get stuck in freezing weather yesterday. Three of the men managed to hike out with Rangers. A helicopter was sent in to rescue a fourth suffering hypothermia.

And check this picture out. It's a kitten with two faces. A cat in Florida gave birth to the kitten yesterday. The kitten appears healthy and is nursing. Tests will be carried out to determine whether it has two brains.

PHILLIPS: A glaring loophole in the nation's war on terror. A new report says that several people on the government's terrorism watch lists have purchased guns. How could this happen?

Jeanne Meserve with CNN's American bureau -- America Bureau, rather, has been looking into that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A person on a terrorist watch list might have an easier time buying a high powered firearm than boarding a commercial airliner.

SCHUMER: I'm just utterly appalled that people on terror watch lists can buy guns. What are we doing to ourselves?

MESERVE: A new report from the Government Accountability Office says last year, background checks on gun buyers found 58 matches with government terror watch lists. In 47 of those cases, the person listed went on to get his or her gun. Being on a list of suspected terrorists does not disqualify a buyer the way a felony conviction or mental illness would.

ROBERT MUELLER, FBI DIRECTOR: We ought to look at the law and see what modifications could be made.

MESERVE: If someone on the watch list is trying to buy a gun, the FBI is notified. But by law, the records of the transaction are destroyed after 24 hours. Gun control advocates argue that this could hamper terrorism investigations.

SEN. FRANK LAUTENBERG (D), NEW JERSEY: It's incomprehensible. If you put this question to the American people and say should we go out of our way to help a terrorist get a gun and conceal his background, absolutely not. MESERVE: Experts estimate there are more than 50,000 names on the often criticized government watch lists, watch lists that have kept the likes of Senator Ted Kennedy from flying.

What is needed, says one expert, is discretion.

RICHARD FALKENRATH, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: There's a wide range of different reasons that people get on watch lists. Not all of them, it seems to me, should be disqualifying for buying a gun.

MESERVE: But Sanford Abrams has a different point of view. He sells guns.

SANFORD ABRAMS, MARYLAND GUN DEALER: There's no right to fly an airplane in this country. There is a right to own a firearm.

MESERVE: A collision between constitutional rights and the war on terror.

For CNN's America Bureau, Jeanne Meserve, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: More on the government's watch lists. How do you get on them? What are you restricted from doing? How do you get off them?

Here with the answers, CNN law enforcement analyst Mike Brooks.

PHILLIPS: I guess I first want to ask you, looking at this report.

MIKE BROOKS, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Right.

PHILLIPS: Forty-something individuals on the terror list, watch list, got the guns. Now, did law enforcement go and get the guns back or try to find them or...

BROOKS: That's a good question. But let's talk about lists.

There are lists. We're talking about a number of lists. There are over nine federal agencies that feed -- everyone has their own list from the Department of -- from DOJ, from defense, from State, Homeland Security. But then there's the Terrorism Screening Center, which is supposed to be the clearinghouse for all of these lists. But do the lists talk to each other? No. It's the screening center that is run by the FBI that is supposed to manage these lists.

But that study was done between February 3 through June 30 of 2004, and they were supposed to start using the lists on February 3 of 2004.

PHILLIPS: OK. There's this list, this terror list, hopefully, that folks won't be able to buy guns. And then there is the no-fly list, where, hopefully, certain individuals won't be able to get on an airplane. BROOKS: That's a whole different problem.

PHILLIPS: Yes. Why isn't it just one list? If you're on a terror watch list, you're on a terror watch list, right?

BROOKS: I totally agree. But these people went in, but they weren't checked on the list, because let's say you want to buy a guy. You go in with your cash or your credit card. You walk into a gun store. They put you through the National Instant Criminal Background Check System. NICS, they call it for short.

You go in, you fill out a form, 4473, that the Alcohol Tobacco Firearms explosives keep. You fill that out. And then they also fill out a form for the background check. Now, if there's something wrong with the system, if the computer's down, you can have a delayed denial, they call it. And they'll say, Kyra, we want you to come back in a day or so or give us a call, and we'll let you know if the background is back.

Now, three business days go by and that background check still isn't back, they're going to just sell you that gun anyway. There have been cases where the ATF has actually had to go out and confiscate guns back from people after they were given guns because the three-day denial -- the delay denial system and, you know, so who were -- were these guys delayed denials? That's a good question.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: So, we don't know if the 40-something individuals that got the guns that are on this terror list actually had to give the guns back are or were traced by authorities.

BROOKS: Right. Exactly. But they say that these terrorists were given it. Well, if that's the case, first of all, if they're a member of a terrorist organization, terrorists don't carry membership cards. What makes them a member of a terrorist organization? Why are they on the list?

PHILLIPS: Yes. How do they get on this list?

BROOKS: That's exactly right. There's no particular criteria. Or at least law enforcement will not say what the criteria is.

But you've got all these different lists. They're supposed to manage them well. You know, the Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms, let them manage the firearms, but they have been cut to the bone from the last budget and they're being cut millions of dollars. They can't even do their own job right now.

PHILLIPS: All right, so how do you get off the list?

BROOKS: Good question. They have to be taken off by the Department of Justice. The FBI manages these lists. And they won't tell you -- let's say, the no-fly list, for example, the airlines don't even know who's on the no-fly list. You know how many planes have taken off and then they send the jet fighters? Well, that's because they weren't on the no-fly list, but then, after the plane takes off, they go run through the manifest, they run the names. They go, hey, this guy was on the terrorist watch list. And it could be a friend of a friend who was in an intelligence report that was found in a cave in Afghanistan. What the criteria is to get on these lists, we still don't know.

PHILLIPS: Bottom line, got to get the lists together.

BROOKS: Got to get the lists together.

PHILLIPS: Got to figure out what is going on.

BROOKS: And find -- and manage the system better.

PHILLIPS: All right, Mike Brooks, thanks so much.

BROOKS: Kyra, thank you.

PHILLIPS: All right.

Well, don't forget, stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security.

And, well, he's not a security concern, but we do have to get Miles O'Brien off the set immediately.

(LAUGHTER)

O'BRIEN: I hope I'm not a concern. Yes. No, I got to jet because this is -- Judy Woodruff comes in very near to where I am. And I'm really not worthy to be here, so I've got to leave.

(LAUGHTER)

O'BRIEN: No, she's going to have -- by the way, Kyra, she's going to have results of a new poll, what Americans think of anchorman Dan Rather. I wonder, Kyra, do you have any idea what he's going to say tonight?

PHILLIPS: Do I have any -- boy.

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: At the end, you know?

PHILLIPS: It's hard to -- there's no way you can guess what Dan Rather is going to say.

O'BRIEN: Yes. I hope he tells us what the frequency is.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIPS: Oh.

(CROSSTALK) PHILLIPS: He had to get it in there.

O'BRIEN: I'm sure you want to stick around and hear about that poll.

PHILLIPS: You better explain to everybody else that's not up on the song, Miles.

O'BRIEN: Everybody knows about the frequency. Everybody knows about the frequency.

(LAUGHTER)

O'BRIEN: All right, Kyra, I got to go. I'm out of here. For now, I will just say courage.

PHILLIPS: All right. Courage. Got to love him. All right.

Miles, thank you so much.

O'BRIEN: See you.

PHILLIPS: See you later.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTINA PARK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Batter, batter, batter, swing, batter. Hit it out of the park at SportsIllustrated.com for a special look at spring training.

At SI.com/baseball, we've got all the team previews to get you ready for the season, starting with the reigning World Series champions, the Boston Red Sox. They're opening the season at the top of the baseball world for the first time in 86 years. Judge for yourself if the planets are aligned for a second straight win this year.

And if you're not a BoSox fan, we've profiled your home team as well. While you're online, get your division previews. Big money and big talent reside in the East. The Yankees and Red Sox again have the top two payrolls in MLB this year, with the Yankees' players salaries totalling more than $200 million.

And while you're there, click on over to our 2005 schedules page, where you can plan your life around baseball, if you want to. Plus, you can check out a photo gallery of spring training going on right now. "Sports Illustrated" will get you geared up for America's favorite pastime, even if you have got nosebleed seats.

From the dot-com desk, I'm Christina Park.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Well, straight ahead, "JUDY WOODRUFF'S INSIDE POLITICS."

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired March 9, 2005 - 15:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Wyoming is low, California high, everywhere else in between, and all are getting higher. We're talking about gas prices, on average, $2 a gallon for self-serve regular. But that's only a distant dream in Bridgeport, California.
Drivers there are paying the nation's highest average fuel price, $2.79 a gallon. Rock Springs, Wyoming, enjoys the cheapest gas, $1.72. And, as you know if you've been watching CNN, President Bush is in Columbus, Ohio, average gas price, $1.95, to pump up support for his energy proposals, proposals that have gone exactly nowhere in four years on Capitol Hill.

CNN's Suzanne Malveaux, gears down long enough to bring us a recap.

Hi, Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, hello, Kyra.

Of course, you may consider getting out your bicycle when you take a look at those oil prices, those gas prices. And it's expected to rise, of course. Here in Ohio, it's a big manufacturing state, as well as a state that experienced that electrical grid problem, that blackout last year, so it makes sense that the president is here to push forward his energy plan.

He very briefly mentioned the situation with the gas prices, but he really used the backdrop of Battelle Memorial Institute, a large research institution, to show and push forward his energy plan. Congress, of course, has not supported this for the last four years or so, but the president urging Americans to take a clear look, a close look at the clean coal technology, modernizing the electricity grid, increasing oil production in the United States.

And that includes the controversial proposal, drilling in Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, the president specifically talking about that, saying it would be about 2,000 acres, the size of Columbus' airport, but would produce about one million barrels of oil a day, that it would create thousands of new jobs, President Bush very adamant about pushing forward his energy plan he hopes will pass his second term.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Higher prices at the gas pump and rising home heating bills and the possibility of blackouts are legitimate concerns for all Americans. And all these uncertainties about energy supply are dragging our economy. It is difficult for entrepreneurs to risk capital when they cannot predict the size of next month's energy bill.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: So, Kyra, the president's line here, of course, is that the economy is strong, but these high energy prices really a drag on the economy, that somehow the United States must become less dependent on foreign sources of oil.

Now, this is a big debate, a very heated debate, as you know, very political. It was earlier today in Washington a group of senators, a small group of Democrats, led by Senator Chuck Schumer, produced a letter here that they gave to the president, to the administration saying that they would like for him to tap the Strategic Oil Reserves to somehow lower those gas prices, a controversial proposal. They brought that up in the past. And here's what he said earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: These are out-of-control prices. They're burning a whole in hole in Americans' wallets. They're putting at risk the economic recovery. And what are they doing at the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue? Twiddling their thumbs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: And already, we got a response from the White House about that, saying that the president does not intend to actually tap into those reserves. Previously, he was asked to do that. He said it would only be in the case of real national emergencies and not for any kind of political cause or manipulating gas prices. That did not go over.

And, Kyra, just to let you know as well, the president, however, was slammed on his Clear Skies Initiative, so-called Clear Skies Initiative, when it comes to power plants, a Senate committee saying that they would not push that forward. This is clearly going to be a very controversial issue, and it will continue -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, Suzanne Malveaux, thanks so much -- Miles.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: A report out today casts serious doubts about the government's fix on Iran and its nuclear aspirations, "The New York Times" saying a report commissioned by President Bush has found U.S. intelligence so subpar that Iran's intentions are far from clear.

This comes as Washington is warning Iran and accusing it of seeking nuclear weapons. An unidentified official quoted as saying that the lack of useful intelligence is scandalous.

Discrepancies still in the shooting at an Iraq checkpoint that killed an Italian agent and wounded a just- released hostage. Italy's prime minister, addressing his parliament today, he said the U.S. military knew that the convoy was headed to the airport. Silvio Berlusconi says he also understands the car was moving slowly and that the driver braked at the first warning.

U.S. military officials say the car was approaching very fast and ignored repeated warnings to stop.

PHILLIPS: That highway to Baghdad's airport is said to be the most dangerous road in Iraq.

Our senior international correspondent, Nic Robertson, has traveled it more times than he cares to counts and knows firsthand the tensions on both sides of the checkpoints.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Firing low.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Firing low.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): At a U.S. checkpoint a year ago, I saw the aftermath of an Iraqi shot when he failed to stop. At the time, the soldiers feared he might have been an insurgent, and had tried to disable his car to save their lives.

Later that year, and 65 miles away, Miqdad Abdull, a former Iraqi general, says a similar thing happened to him. He points to the windshield of his car where, he says, he was shot at by U.S. soldiers at a checkpoint.

MIQDAD ABDULL, FORMER IRAQI GENERAL (through translator): The first shot was a killer shot. And this I know from my experience. I ducked, and the shooting lasted for about another 15 seconds.

ROBERTSON: He shows photographs of the many bullet holes through the windshield of his car, and of his own injuries, lays out police maps, and a note apparently written by a U.S. Army officer. It reads, This vehicle failed to stop for a coalition traffic point. The vehicle was engaged and hit by small-arms fire.

He claims not to have seen the warning for him to stop.

ABDULL (through translator): In my personal opinion, people fear these checkpoints more than they fear other attacks and explosions.

ROBERTSON: This day, at a checkpoint on the highway to Baghdad International Airport, the most dangerous road in Iraq, two Iraqi drivers get confused about how to proceed.

(on camera): This is exactly where Iraqi drivers worry the most, they say. They're coming into a checkpoint here, and what they say they fear is that they may be mistaken for a suicide bomber. And that's why this area, they say, is the most dangerous, because they could be shot at.

(voice-over): No one has an accurate account of how many Iraqis and others have been injured in this way, but commanders say they are committed to avoiding casualties.

MAJ. GEN. WILLIAM WEBSTER, U.S. ARMY: We've trained our soldiers, and we continue to retrain them on techniques of causing a vehicle to slow down and stop far enough away where it doesn't present the threat of an explosive device.

ROBERTSON: And in Iraq, explosive devices like that go off 40 to 60 times every day.

The threat that worries the soldiers the most is the suicide car bomber. So every time a car comes close to them, they told me, it's a critical moment where self-preservation forces a fast decision.

WEBSTER: If the vehicle looks like a threat of lethal force to the soldier guarding the position, then we may fire warning shots into the ground next to the vehicle. And then we instruct our soldiers to engage the engine block, if they possibly can, to disable the vehicle, and try not to kill anyone.

ROBERTSON: On Iraq's roads, on both sides of the checkpoint, caution remains the watchword.

Nic Robertson, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: And today in Iraq, an unnamed American soldier was killed in a roadside bombing in Baghdad. The government's planning minister escaped assassination when gunman assaulted his convoy. Also in the capital city, a garbage truck packed with explosives blew up near a downtown hotel, killing two people and the suicide bomber; 40 people were injured, including 30 American contractors.

Still in Iraq, officials investigate the horrific deaths of 26 people killed execution style. The bodies were found in a village near the Syrian border. All were clothed civilian style. And the dead included at least one woman.

O'BRIEN: Well, they may not be able to get on an airplane, but people on America's terror watch list are able to buy guns.

And that has some people in Washington up in arms. It should have you up in arms. That story is straight ahead.

And cryptic messages from prison, reports that white supremacist Matthew Hale might be trying to get secret messages to his followers. Details ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(WEATHER UPDATE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: News across America now. An attorney for jailed white supremacist Matthew Hale reportedly says he was asked to pass a cryptic message to one of Hale's supporters. The attorney tells "The New York Times" and the Associated Press that Hale's mother asked him months ago to pass along the message. He says he declined. Hale has been a focus of the investigation into the killings of a federal judge's family in Chicago.

Park rangers within the past couple of hours rescued hikers on Tennessee's Appalachian Trail. The hikers set out Sunday, only to get stuck in freezing weather yesterday. Three of the men managed to hike out with Rangers. A helicopter was sent in to rescue a fourth suffering hypothermia.

And check this picture out. It's a kitten with two faces. A cat in Florida gave birth to the kitten yesterday. The kitten appears healthy and is nursing. Tests will be carried out to determine whether it has two brains.

PHILLIPS: A glaring loophole in the nation's war on terror. A new report says that several people on the government's terrorism watch lists have purchased guns. How could this happen?

Jeanne Meserve with CNN's American bureau -- America Bureau, rather, has been looking into that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A person on a terrorist watch list might have an easier time buying a high powered firearm than boarding a commercial airliner.

SCHUMER: I'm just utterly appalled that people on terror watch lists can buy guns. What are we doing to ourselves?

MESERVE: A new report from the Government Accountability Office says last year, background checks on gun buyers found 58 matches with government terror watch lists. In 47 of those cases, the person listed went on to get his or her gun. Being on a list of suspected terrorists does not disqualify a buyer the way a felony conviction or mental illness would.

ROBERT MUELLER, FBI DIRECTOR: We ought to look at the law and see what modifications could be made.

MESERVE: If someone on the watch list is trying to buy a gun, the FBI is notified. But by law, the records of the transaction are destroyed after 24 hours. Gun control advocates argue that this could hamper terrorism investigations.

SEN. FRANK LAUTENBERG (D), NEW JERSEY: It's incomprehensible. If you put this question to the American people and say should we go out of our way to help a terrorist get a gun and conceal his background, absolutely not. MESERVE: Experts estimate there are more than 50,000 names on the often criticized government watch lists, watch lists that have kept the likes of Senator Ted Kennedy from flying.

What is needed, says one expert, is discretion.

RICHARD FALKENRATH, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: There's a wide range of different reasons that people get on watch lists. Not all of them, it seems to me, should be disqualifying for buying a gun.

MESERVE: But Sanford Abrams has a different point of view. He sells guns.

SANFORD ABRAMS, MARYLAND GUN DEALER: There's no right to fly an airplane in this country. There is a right to own a firearm.

MESERVE: A collision between constitutional rights and the war on terror.

For CNN's America Bureau, Jeanne Meserve, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: More on the government's watch lists. How do you get on them? What are you restricted from doing? How do you get off them?

Here with the answers, CNN law enforcement analyst Mike Brooks.

PHILLIPS: I guess I first want to ask you, looking at this report.

MIKE BROOKS, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Right.

PHILLIPS: Forty-something individuals on the terror list, watch list, got the guns. Now, did law enforcement go and get the guns back or try to find them or...

BROOKS: That's a good question. But let's talk about lists.

There are lists. We're talking about a number of lists. There are over nine federal agencies that feed -- everyone has their own list from the Department of -- from DOJ, from defense, from State, Homeland Security. But then there's the Terrorism Screening Center, which is supposed to be the clearinghouse for all of these lists. But do the lists talk to each other? No. It's the screening center that is run by the FBI that is supposed to manage these lists.

But that study was done between February 3 through June 30 of 2004, and they were supposed to start using the lists on February 3 of 2004.

PHILLIPS: OK. There's this list, this terror list, hopefully, that folks won't be able to buy guns. And then there is the no-fly list, where, hopefully, certain individuals won't be able to get on an airplane. BROOKS: That's a whole different problem.

PHILLIPS: Yes. Why isn't it just one list? If you're on a terror watch list, you're on a terror watch list, right?

BROOKS: I totally agree. But these people went in, but they weren't checked on the list, because let's say you want to buy a guy. You go in with your cash or your credit card. You walk into a gun store. They put you through the National Instant Criminal Background Check System. NICS, they call it for short.

You go in, you fill out a form, 4473, that the Alcohol Tobacco Firearms explosives keep. You fill that out. And then they also fill out a form for the background check. Now, if there's something wrong with the system, if the computer's down, you can have a delayed denial, they call it. And they'll say, Kyra, we want you to come back in a day or so or give us a call, and we'll let you know if the background is back.

Now, three business days go by and that background check still isn't back, they're going to just sell you that gun anyway. There have been cases where the ATF has actually had to go out and confiscate guns back from people after they were given guns because the three-day denial -- the delay denial system and, you know, so who were -- were these guys delayed denials? That's a good question.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: So, we don't know if the 40-something individuals that got the guns that are on this terror list actually had to give the guns back are or were traced by authorities.

BROOKS: Right. Exactly. But they say that these terrorists were given it. Well, if that's the case, first of all, if they're a member of a terrorist organization, terrorists don't carry membership cards. What makes them a member of a terrorist organization? Why are they on the list?

PHILLIPS: Yes. How do they get on this list?

BROOKS: That's exactly right. There's no particular criteria. Or at least law enforcement will not say what the criteria is.

But you've got all these different lists. They're supposed to manage them well. You know, the Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms, let them manage the firearms, but they have been cut to the bone from the last budget and they're being cut millions of dollars. They can't even do their own job right now.

PHILLIPS: All right, so how do you get off the list?

BROOKS: Good question. They have to be taken off by the Department of Justice. The FBI manages these lists. And they won't tell you -- let's say, the no-fly list, for example, the airlines don't even know who's on the no-fly list. You know how many planes have taken off and then they send the jet fighters? Well, that's because they weren't on the no-fly list, but then, after the plane takes off, they go run through the manifest, they run the names. They go, hey, this guy was on the terrorist watch list. And it could be a friend of a friend who was in an intelligence report that was found in a cave in Afghanistan. What the criteria is to get on these lists, we still don't know.

PHILLIPS: Bottom line, got to get the lists together.

BROOKS: Got to get the lists together.

PHILLIPS: Got to figure out what is going on.

BROOKS: And find -- and manage the system better.

PHILLIPS: All right, Mike Brooks, thanks so much.

BROOKS: Kyra, thank you.

PHILLIPS: All right.

Well, don't forget, stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security.

And, well, he's not a security concern, but we do have to get Miles O'Brien off the set immediately.

(LAUGHTER)

O'BRIEN: I hope I'm not a concern. Yes. No, I got to jet because this is -- Judy Woodruff comes in very near to where I am. And I'm really not worthy to be here, so I've got to leave.

(LAUGHTER)

O'BRIEN: No, she's going to have -- by the way, Kyra, she's going to have results of a new poll, what Americans think of anchorman Dan Rather. I wonder, Kyra, do you have any idea what he's going to say tonight?

PHILLIPS: Do I have any -- boy.

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: At the end, you know?

PHILLIPS: It's hard to -- there's no way you can guess what Dan Rather is going to say.

O'BRIEN: Yes. I hope he tells us what the frequency is.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIPS: Oh.

(CROSSTALK) PHILLIPS: He had to get it in there.

O'BRIEN: I'm sure you want to stick around and hear about that poll.

PHILLIPS: You better explain to everybody else that's not up on the song, Miles.

O'BRIEN: Everybody knows about the frequency. Everybody knows about the frequency.

(LAUGHTER)

O'BRIEN: All right, Kyra, I got to go. I'm out of here. For now, I will just say courage.

PHILLIPS: All right. Courage. Got to love him. All right.

Miles, thank you so much.

O'BRIEN: See you.

PHILLIPS: See you later.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTINA PARK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Batter, batter, batter, swing, batter. Hit it out of the park at SportsIllustrated.com for a special look at spring training.

At SI.com/baseball, we've got all the team previews to get you ready for the season, starting with the reigning World Series champions, the Boston Red Sox. They're opening the season at the top of the baseball world for the first time in 86 years. Judge for yourself if the planets are aligned for a second straight win this year.

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From the dot-com desk, I'm Christina Park.

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