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Jackson Trial Takes Strange Turn; Clinton Undergoes Follow-Up Surgery; Airline Pilots Give Poor Grades to Airport Security
Aired March 10, 2005 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JUDY WOODRUFF, HOST, "INSIDE POLITICS": Miguel Marquez, part of our rolling coverage of the Michael Jackson trial, Santa Maria, California.
I'm going to say farewell right now. Wolf Blitzer will be -- will be back at 5 p.m. I'll be here at 3:30 Eastern for "INSIDE POLITICS," but for now we're going to stay on the Michael Jackson story. I'm going to turn it over to my colleague, Kyra Phillips, in Atlanta.
Hi, Kyra.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CO-HOST: Hi, Judy. Thank you so much.
Well, as you've been watching, as the coverage continues, the defendant makes a detour, the lawyer makes some phone calls. The judge makes an angry decision: come to court of else. Well, he showed up. And just when you thought the Michael Jackson trial couldn't get any more dramatic, well, you witnessed Jackson's race to beat a bench warrant, all the while allegedly nursing a bad back.
You can see this video. Within the past few minutes, Michael Jackson showing up. The question now is, is he sick? Is he not sick? An ambulance also coming to the courthouse. Basically, he faced jail time or coming to court, and now seeing as this, I guess, sort of production has continued. Not quite sure the details of what the situation is with Michael Jackson at this point.
But following the minute by minute developments, of course, for us, CNN's Miguel Marquez in Santa Maria, California, and legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin in New York.
Miguel, hopefully you are still with us. I know you are -- you've got the high tech equipment there, listening to folks in the courthouse. You've got it. Anything to bring us up to date at this point, Miguel?
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I haven't played with walkie-talkies since I was a kid, but we are getting updates from a listening room not too far from here.
What we understand is that Mr. Jackson's lawyer, Tom Mesereau Jr., and Tom Sneddon, the district attorney, have gone back into the judge's chambers. The jury is seated. The accuser, the witness, today's witness, is sitting in the stand, waiting for Mr. Jackson. An ambulance has pulled up. It is still parked down the way here. It didn't pull up in sort of an emergent way. I didn't even see any of the EMTs go into the building. But it could be possible they are here for Mr. Jackson.
He showed up here looking not so great in pajamas and slippers and hair undone. It's not clear how this is going to play out. But the judge now has a very serious decision to make. And who knew he'd be making it this soon in this case?
Back to you.
PHILLIPS: Miguel, we've been talking in the past half an hour just about how Michael Jackson did show up, the pajamas, walking slowly. He's in the slippers. I mean, and I know Jeffrey will talk about this a little bit with Miles. But let me ask you.
I mean, it looks just a little too well prepared. I mean, Michael Jackson, every time he's come into public, always looks his best.
MIGUEL: He's somebody who knows how to sell drama. I mean, this guy has been doing it for years. He's an entertainer. He knows -- he knows what people expect. So that's the problem that the prosecution has had with him all along, the problem the judge has with him.
I can tell you that in court, just about every morning, he'll do stretching exercises. When he's been leaving court, I've noticed just the thinness to this man, the slightness of Michael Jackson. He is just a tiny, tiny individual.
And he kind of has a shuffle as he walks out of -- out of the courtroom. Obviously, lots of dancers -- he is a great dancer. And lots of dancers have injuries in mid-life, which is where he is. And it is not clear whether or not this is just a ruse to get out of court or if he has just made his life a whole heck of a lot worse because of something serious.
PHILLIPS: Now if, indeed, it is. Let's say this is all -- all of this is an act. I mean, how do you prove that it's an act? And what kind of action can the judge take, if any?
MARQUEZ: Well, I mean, the judge has already issued a bench warrant and said that if Mr. Jackson's not here by 9:35 a.m. Pacific Time -- Mr. Jackson was three minutes late for that, that he would be remanded into custody and he would forfeit his $3 million bail.
That seems to me -- knowing this judge, and seeing him go along throughout the proceedings here, this is a guy that keeps his word. He doesn't like to have the jurors disrespected. He knows -- he wants the defendant to know that the jurors spent a lot of time, that they are equally as important as he is to this process, and he doesn't like to have the justice system hurt or damaged or disrespected in any way by the defendant.
And he's really not going to stand for it, especially when you consider that you have media from around the world standing right outside of his courtroom. He knows it all too well what's going on with that. And he does not want to look -- have it look like Mr. Jackson can flout the law.
Back to you.
PHILLIPS: All right, Miguel Marquez there, standing by with his walkie-talkie, not the one from when you were a young child. But we're going to keep checking in with you, finding out all the details there from inside the courtroom and outside the courtroom. Thank you so much.
We're going to take it back over to Miles now and Jeffrey Toobin.
MILES O'BRIEN, CO-HOST: Our senior legal analyst, Jeff Toobin, he's spent a fair amount of time in that courtroom. And joins us now from New York.
And Jeff, good to have you back with us.
JEFF TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Nice to see you, Miles.
O'BRIEN: Let me ask you this. And we're walking down a little bit of supposition here. But let's assume for a moment that it was a strategy, to play hooky, to play sick. I can't imagine why the defense team would think that would be a good idea. They had a lot of momentum.
TOOBIN: Well, for starters, I mean, I know Tom Mesereau well enough, and I know his reputation. He would never in a million years be party to strategizing like that. That is -- that is literally illegal. It is improper, unethical behavior by a lawyer.
And I am completely confident that Tom Mesereau would never -- and did not tell Michael Jackson to fake being sick to avoid going to court.
Whether Jackson himself is either faking or exaggerating his symptoms, that's a separate question. But I don't think we can attribute this to a defense strategy without seeing really good proof of it, because I think it's unlikely.
O'BRIEN: All right. As you pointed out a little while ago, as we look at some of this videotape from just a short while ago, you can really feel for defense attorney Tom Mesereau, as he's on that phone, pleading with whomever is on the other end of the line to get his client in the right place. Probably talking to the judge saying, "I think I've got this under control." It's not the kind of thing you want to have to deal with in a case like this.
TOOBIN: No, and -- and keep in mind that this is the day that Tom Mesereau is probably going to have to conduct the most important cross-examination -- at least start the most important cross- examination of his life. And, you know, he's got to deal with this crisis, which is distracting, to say the least.
So this is a terrible day from Mesereau's perspective. And over and above everything else, he's got the very real problem of persuading the judge not to lock his client up for the rest of the trial and not to revoke his $3 million bond, which is a lot of money, even for Michael Jackson.
So -- I mean, Mesereau is dealing with a very full plate of problems today.
O'BRIEN: All right, Jeff Toobin, stand by there. Let's go to Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Back outside the courtroom there in Santa Maria, California, where our Miguel Marquez is standing by. Any more information from inside the courtroom if indeed this is going to get going any time soon, Miguel?
MARQUEZ: It looks like we're moving toward that, Kyra. The judge just took the stand and informed jurors that it was necessary to order Mr. Jackson here. This is typical of this judge. He doesn't want to prejudice the jury against the defendant if he really does have a serious medical problem.
The judge saying, "I don't want you to take any inference from what I've done, ordering Mr. Jackson here. This says nothing about his guilt or innocence. I am not expressing my opinion or anyone else's opinion about Mr. Jackson's guilt or innocence. You should take nothing from the fact that I had to order him here today."
And then he ended with sort of a little joke. This judge can be funny. If it were any of you, I would have done the exact same thing.
So telling the jurors that Mr. Jackson was late. Seeming to indicate, though that Mr. Jackson may, in fact, have a legitimate reason for his lateness and the judge may have bought it. I mean, this judge is somebody who is not shy to get on the phone, talk to doctors and make sure that Mr. Jackson does, in fact, have the condition that he says he has -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right. So Miguel, as we stand by and wait for things to get going and wait for things to happen, why don't you sort of go over what took place yesterday, testimony yesterday, kind of bring our viewers up to date, if they haven't been following to this point?
MARQUEZ: Yes, two things happened yesterday. One was the final cross-examination of the accuser's brother. And then about an hour before the court session ended yesterday, the judge said -- both sides said they were done with the accuser's brother.
And then both sides -- the judge said, Mr. Prosecutor, your next witness. And he said the name of the accuser. And there was a hush in the courtroom. And you could have literally heard a pin drop, had you a pin to drop in the courtroom. And the accuser came out a few minutes later.
And it was -- it is such a surreal feeling to see this man, this guy who we grew up with, listen to his music, and is world renowned, known in villages and cities around this world, having to sit there and listen to this 15-year-old make these accusations. I'm sure it's surreal for him. It's certainly surreal for us. It does say something about, you know, the justice system and about being human.
What this kid testified to yesterday was that on the first night there at Neverland, it was Mr. Jackson's suggestion that he and his brother spend the night in his bedroom. His parents acquiesced and said it was fine. Mr. Jackson, they went up there, he said, and watched movies. And then what ended up happening, says this kid, is that an associate of Mr. Jackson surfed Internet sites, adult Internet sites on the Internet for about 15 to 30 minutes.
And this is a kid, keep in mind, that called Mr. Jackson the coolest guy in the world yesterday on the stand, that he thought he was the coolest guy in the world. But then also said that Mr. Jackson wasn't there through much of his cancer treatments, sometimes giving him phone numbers that a month later didn't work, sometimes being at Neverland when he said he wasn't so that he wouldn't have to see him when he was there.
So there was a sort of a frustration there, trying to paint Mr. Jackson as somebody who really maybe didn't care about this kid.
Furthering that point, the Martin Bashir documentary. This kid testified yesterday that Jackson brought he and his siblings up to Neverland for the Martin Bashir documentary and told them, "This is your chance to be an actor. This is your audition. Call me -- I want you to call me Daddy Michael in this thing, or Daddy or Father. Refer to me that way. And I want -- I want you to tell Bashir that I was responsible or largely responsible for curing your cancer," which the kids seemed to deny yesterday.
It raises the question of who was manipulating who? The defense saying that this family is manipulating Jackson for his money. The prosecution now changing its tact ever so slightly to say that it was Jackson manipulating this boy and that family in order to use him for their own purposes.
Today we expected to get the real, the real -- the real meat of the testimony from this boy about what he says happened four times -- or at least two times from this guy, two times that his brother witnessed, two times to him that Mr. Jackson did to him -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right, our Miguel Marquez there outside the courtroom in Santa Maria, California. We're getting word possibly, Miguel, the trial might have resumed. We'll check back in with you as we get more details.
Meanwhile, we want to go back over to Miles.
O'BRIEN: All right. Jeff Toobin back with us.
Jeff, it appears they have resumed testimony. Still not very clear as to whether the judge will penalize Mr. Jackson in any way. We're going to get some more information on that. But let's assume for a minute that he said, "OK, we're off to the races, you know, second time." Third time is probably going to be even more challenging if that should occur.
And I just want to point out, a couple of viewers sent me e- mails. As he walked in, he was able to turn and address fans and wave to them as he came in. So it seemed as if his back pain was a bit selective.
Jeff Toobin, as far as the judge though, a third time, what is he going to be doing? Would he be kind of forced to put him in jail?
TOOBIN: Yes. Well, no one would force him. I mean, in fact, the defense would argue strenuously that he shouldn't do it.
But you know, Michael Jackson is obviously on very thin ice with the judge here, because, as we've discussed, at the arraignment last year, he was late and the judge laid into him. A couple of weeks ago, jury selection was delayed for a month because of Jackson's flu-like symptoms. And now this delay.
What's interesting about what the judge has done, and I think it's characteristic of the way he's tried the case, is what appears to have happened is he has said, "Look, the thing I want is to keep this jury occupied and to not waste their time."
So even though there are issues to be dealt with about bail and arrest warrants, he says, "Maybe we'll -- we'll deal with that after 2:30. But I want the jury in the box, hearing testimony."
So within, it seem, 20 minutes of Jackson's arrival at the courtroom, not really enough time to deal with those issues, the accuser was back on the stand, the jury was back in the box, and testimony resumed.
So the judge, like a lot of good judges, cares deeply about not wasting the jury's time, so that's what he's going to do is get the testimony going again and deal with the issues relating to bail and Jackson's arrest after the jury has left for the day.
O'BRIEN: So we can consider that probably at this point probably an open matter. And the point is let's press on and make sure that jury isn't wasting time.
TOOBIN: I think that's absolutely right. I think that's an accurate way to put it, that it's an open matter. But the key point, from the judge's perspective, is keeping testimony going, not wasting judge's time, not forcing accuser to wait unduly. Because after all, this is a stressful situation for him, too. And leave the issue of Jackson's status for another moment.
O'BRIEN: And a final thought here, on an attorney who has to deal with a client like this, who isn't always going to be toeing the line. What do you do?
TOOBIN: They don't teach it in law school, I'll tell you that, Miles. I mean, it's very difficult. Because you know, at one level, you've got to keep your client happy. And you've got to -- you know, make sure he continues to cooperate with you and trust you.
On the other hand, you've got to deal with a very angry judge, who's saying, "Look, I don't care what his problem is. He's got to be here on time or give us a lot more notice than he gave."
So it's -- it's really a difficult human relations problem. It's not a legal problem. For Tom Mesereau, dealing with the various constituencies: chiefly, his client, and the judge, you know, who are pulling him in very different directions.
O'BRIEN: All right, the paper chase meets the client chase, I guess. Jeff Toobin in New York, thank you very much.
We're going to break away from that and move on to other news. When we come back, we'll fill you in on former President Clinton under the knife. Dr. Sanjay Gupta will shed the light on that.
Lots more ahead. Stay with us on LIVE FROM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: ... five in the morning. That's pretty typical for someone who will have an early morning operation. Most hospitals like this start their first operation of the day around 7:30 or so. (AUDIO GAP) heard for sure is the operation will start at that time. That's a good guess probably.
Typically takes three or four hours, you know, an hour or so to get the patient ready and then three or four hours after that. So we're probably coming up upon the time the operation might be ending, if in fact, it happened at that point. Then he'll go to the recovery room after that, and we'll probably hear more around that time, I think, Miles.
O'BRIEN: All right. When you put it all altogether, the tsunami tour, the golf game, the visit to the White House, you get the sense there wasn't a lot of urgency linked to all of this. What if he just hadn't had the surgery?
GUPTA: Yes, you know, that's an interesting point, Miles. And the term elective has been thrown around as well, which I think is a bit of an overextension. It's really not an elective procedure like a nose job or rhinoplasty, for example.
On the other hand, it was scheduled, as we do know. I think his doctors probably would have preferred that he didn't have such a busy schedule just before that operation. But this is how his doctor put it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ALLAN SCHWARTZ, NEW YORK PRESBYTERIAN HOSPITAL: This is not an emergency. This is being done to assure that he is able to continue to maintain a highly active lifestyle and that he's not at all functionally limited by his lung. But this is not a medically urgent procedure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUPTA: Still a procedure that needs to be done to help his breathing, to help his discomfort. To answer your question, Miles, if he hadn't had it done, those two things would have gotten worse. He said he was having difficulty breathing when walking up steep hills. Maybe he would have had difficulty breathing with less activity and that would obviously be a problem for him.
O'BRIEN: All right. Why don't you give us a lay person's primer on this surgery would you?
GUPTA: Yes, I would. And you know, as you point out, as well, Dr. Craig Smith, who did President Clinton's operation, done about 6,000 of these bypasses, said the complications occurred only about 10 times in his hands. I bet you he wishes one of those 10 times wasn't former President Clinton.
But what needs to be done here is what's called decortication. You actually make some small incisions in the chest wall, put in some instruments to basically try and remove some of that scar tissue.
Think of it like an orange peel almost, Miles. That's sort of the consistency of it, an orange peel enveloping the bottom part of the lung. Strip away that peel, drain that fluid. That's the goal of the procedure. If those two things happen successfully, it shouldn't be a problem for him in the future, Miles.
O'BRIEN: And just to clarify, it's not open heart surgery. They don't open you wide up. It's done through the ribs, right?
GUPTA: It's very important. It's not heart surgery at all, period, really. This is lung surgery for most the part. It was a consequence of the scarring from his heart surgery. But this is not open heart surgery. This isn't heart surgery, period.
O'BRIEN: All right. Dr. Gupta in New York, thank you very much -- Kyra.
GUPTA: Thank you.
PHILLIPS: Big leaguers, big government and the big problem with steroids. These players called on to testify on Capitol Hill.
And look closely at this guy. (AUDIO GAP) Here's a hint: this clean cut young man would love you two times, baby. The answer ahead on LIVE FROM.
But quickly, let's check back in with Miguel Marquez, outside the courtroom there in Santa Maria, California, with the latest on the Michael Jackson trial.
What do you know, Miguel? MARQUEZ: Yes, I just talked to a court administrator here in Santa Maria, and he says that he believes the judge has a bit more for Mr. Jackson today. The judge came onto the stand -- or onto his bench a short time ago and admonished jurors, telling them not to draw any inference about Mr. Jackson's guilt or innocence because he had to order them here today. Sort of joking with the jury, he said if it was any one of you, I would have done the exact same thing. Maybe not so joking so much.
But the court administrator believes that there is probably some more that will have to be discussed. The -- Mr. Jackson, his lawyer and the prosecutor were in the judge's chambers for some time. It's not clear what the judge will do about the order he -- he made a short -- earlier today, saying that if Mr. Jackson didn't show up by a certain hour, he was going to have him arrested and revoke his bail.
We believe that the judge will have some more information a little bit later. We believe that the judge may have more to say on that in open court, probably not with the jurors there, but in open court later today, possibly at the end of the court day at 2:30 p.m. Pacific Time.
Back to you.
PHILLIPS: All right, Miguel, thanks so much. We'll continue to check in throughout the day.
We're going to take a quick break. More LIVE FROM right after this.
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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Air marshals, C. Perimeter security, D. Cargo screening, credentialing, crew training, F. Dismal grades from an airline pilots group on U.S. aviation security 3 1/2 years after air security was compromised like never before.
We get some details from John Safley, president of the Coalition of Airline Pilots Association, CAPA, in Washington.
Good to have you with us, Mr. Safley. And this is part of a series of report cards that pilots have weighed in on, on aviation security. What's the whole purpose here?
JOHN SAFLEY, PRESIDENT, CAPA: The whole purpose is just to make sure that the American public understands how the pilots see the overall security program that we deal with day in and day out. And one of the key points we made today at our press conference was the fact that these grades have not changed since we resurrected report card two years ago.
O'BRIEN: All right. Let's go through it very quickly if we could. SAFLEY: Sure.
O'BRIEN: Screening bags, B. Cockpit doors, B. Federal air marshals, C. Given a C because there's just not enough of them.
Moving on. Crew training in the classroom, a C. Perimeter security a D. This is a particularly important issue when you start thinking about those shoulder fired missiles in particular. D, threat intelligence, not shared well with the airline.
Let's get -- I want to home in a little bit on the next item. D, pilots with guns. I was out in Artesia, New Mexico, where they're training these federal flight deck officers. And it's not an easy thing for a pilot to participate in. You have to do it on your own time, pay out your own money. All kind of restriction on how you do the job of carrying a weapon in the cockpit.
Is that the concern, that it's not implemented properly?
SAFLEY: That's part of the concern. The primary reason, though, that we grade it a D is that there are so few FFDO's, as we refer to them, out on the line today. In fact, there are less than 5,000 of the pilots in America that have gone through this training and are armed to protect our domestic flights.
O'BRIEN: Well, certainly if you made it easier, you'd probably have bigger numbers, right?
SAFLEY: Well, if we had more training, if we had more training sites, we'd have more people. If the application process, perhaps, was just a little bit more streamlined. And also, if the operational policies that are laid down by the TSA were a little more smooth, if you will, I think we would get more people there.
O'BRIEN: OK.
SAFLEY: We continue, though, to have people applying, and the numbers are gradually coming up. But they're not where they need to be.
O'BRIEN: OK. Of course, you could say that just the fact that they're out there might provide a deterrent, no matter what the numbers. All right. Let's move down.
SAFLEY: Absolutely.
O'BRIEN: Screening passengers, and we're talking now about the biometrics, for example, and also the employees. And this is -- this is a thing most people just do not see or really comprehend, I think, of how loose the security is on the backside of the airport. We're talking about the people that are doing the catering trucks and all of that kind of thing.
What is being done about that aspect of airport security?
SAFLEY: Really nothing right now. And that's what concerns us probably the most at CAPA. We have all the airline employees, airport employees, contractors, vendors, all these different people who come in and, if you will, lay their land on our airplanes.
But they go through no screening whatsoever. So unlike the pilots and passengers on the top, they don't go through a magnetometer. Their bags aren't screened in any way. Most of them simply have airport cards that allow them into the airport area. They swipe them and come to work.
O'BRIEN: All right, let's move on. Let's get the final points here. Because I want to wrap this up. F for credentialing. F for crew training and self-defense. Pilots and flight attendants aren't typically taught in a routine way how to defend themselves on an airplane.
Then finally, missile defense. This is a big bugaboo. It's a real concern, that surface to air missiles, shoulder-fired missiles could be in the hand of terrorists. And there are ways to guard against this, expensive ways.
Are you suggesting the airlines, in as bad a shape they are financially, should foot this bill? Should the government foot this bill? What should be done?
SAFLEY: I think that the -- the footing of bill itself I think is going to depend, and the government and the airlines would have to work that out.
First, we have to determine, though, exactly what the threat is. And as we saw from that DHL Airbus that was popped by an SA-7 in Baghdad, the threat is real. What we need to do is continue the testing, like DHS is doing, and then make the decision how and when we're going to deploy these counter MANPAD systems on our commercial aircraft.
O'BRIEN: Final thought here. As you read this report card, what I walk away with is the sense that security as we have it now is window dressing. It's meant to put on a show for passengers. And the reality, the things they don't see, are not being addressed. Would you agree?
SAFLEY: I would agree with that, yes, unfortunately.
O'BRIEN: All right. Captain Safley, always fly safely. We appreciate your time.
SAFLEY: I'll do it just for you.
O'BRIEN: CNN is committed to providing the most reliable coverage of news that affects your security. Stay tuned to CNN for news about your security 24/7.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
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Aired March 10, 2005 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JUDY WOODRUFF, HOST, "INSIDE POLITICS": Miguel Marquez, part of our rolling coverage of the Michael Jackson trial, Santa Maria, California.
I'm going to say farewell right now. Wolf Blitzer will be -- will be back at 5 p.m. I'll be here at 3:30 Eastern for "INSIDE POLITICS," but for now we're going to stay on the Michael Jackson story. I'm going to turn it over to my colleague, Kyra Phillips, in Atlanta.
Hi, Kyra.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CO-HOST: Hi, Judy. Thank you so much.
Well, as you've been watching, as the coverage continues, the defendant makes a detour, the lawyer makes some phone calls. The judge makes an angry decision: come to court of else. Well, he showed up. And just when you thought the Michael Jackson trial couldn't get any more dramatic, well, you witnessed Jackson's race to beat a bench warrant, all the while allegedly nursing a bad back.
You can see this video. Within the past few minutes, Michael Jackson showing up. The question now is, is he sick? Is he not sick? An ambulance also coming to the courthouse. Basically, he faced jail time or coming to court, and now seeing as this, I guess, sort of production has continued. Not quite sure the details of what the situation is with Michael Jackson at this point.
But following the minute by minute developments, of course, for us, CNN's Miguel Marquez in Santa Maria, California, and legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin in New York.
Miguel, hopefully you are still with us. I know you are -- you've got the high tech equipment there, listening to folks in the courthouse. You've got it. Anything to bring us up to date at this point, Miguel?
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I haven't played with walkie-talkies since I was a kid, but we are getting updates from a listening room not too far from here.
What we understand is that Mr. Jackson's lawyer, Tom Mesereau Jr., and Tom Sneddon, the district attorney, have gone back into the judge's chambers. The jury is seated. The accuser, the witness, today's witness, is sitting in the stand, waiting for Mr. Jackson. An ambulance has pulled up. It is still parked down the way here. It didn't pull up in sort of an emergent way. I didn't even see any of the EMTs go into the building. But it could be possible they are here for Mr. Jackson.
He showed up here looking not so great in pajamas and slippers and hair undone. It's not clear how this is going to play out. But the judge now has a very serious decision to make. And who knew he'd be making it this soon in this case?
Back to you.
PHILLIPS: Miguel, we've been talking in the past half an hour just about how Michael Jackson did show up, the pajamas, walking slowly. He's in the slippers. I mean, and I know Jeffrey will talk about this a little bit with Miles. But let me ask you.
I mean, it looks just a little too well prepared. I mean, Michael Jackson, every time he's come into public, always looks his best.
MIGUEL: He's somebody who knows how to sell drama. I mean, this guy has been doing it for years. He's an entertainer. He knows -- he knows what people expect. So that's the problem that the prosecution has had with him all along, the problem the judge has with him.
I can tell you that in court, just about every morning, he'll do stretching exercises. When he's been leaving court, I've noticed just the thinness to this man, the slightness of Michael Jackson. He is just a tiny, tiny individual.
And he kind of has a shuffle as he walks out of -- out of the courtroom. Obviously, lots of dancers -- he is a great dancer. And lots of dancers have injuries in mid-life, which is where he is. And it is not clear whether or not this is just a ruse to get out of court or if he has just made his life a whole heck of a lot worse because of something serious.
PHILLIPS: Now if, indeed, it is. Let's say this is all -- all of this is an act. I mean, how do you prove that it's an act? And what kind of action can the judge take, if any?
MARQUEZ: Well, I mean, the judge has already issued a bench warrant and said that if Mr. Jackson's not here by 9:35 a.m. Pacific Time -- Mr. Jackson was three minutes late for that, that he would be remanded into custody and he would forfeit his $3 million bail.
That seems to me -- knowing this judge, and seeing him go along throughout the proceedings here, this is a guy that keeps his word. He doesn't like to have the jurors disrespected. He knows -- he wants the defendant to know that the jurors spent a lot of time, that they are equally as important as he is to this process, and he doesn't like to have the justice system hurt or damaged or disrespected in any way by the defendant.
And he's really not going to stand for it, especially when you consider that you have media from around the world standing right outside of his courtroom. He knows it all too well what's going on with that. And he does not want to look -- have it look like Mr. Jackson can flout the law.
Back to you.
PHILLIPS: All right, Miguel Marquez there, standing by with his walkie-talkie, not the one from when you were a young child. But we're going to keep checking in with you, finding out all the details there from inside the courtroom and outside the courtroom. Thank you so much.
We're going to take it back over to Miles now and Jeffrey Toobin.
MILES O'BRIEN, CO-HOST: Our senior legal analyst, Jeff Toobin, he's spent a fair amount of time in that courtroom. And joins us now from New York.
And Jeff, good to have you back with us.
JEFF TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Nice to see you, Miles.
O'BRIEN: Let me ask you this. And we're walking down a little bit of supposition here. But let's assume for a moment that it was a strategy, to play hooky, to play sick. I can't imagine why the defense team would think that would be a good idea. They had a lot of momentum.
TOOBIN: Well, for starters, I mean, I know Tom Mesereau well enough, and I know his reputation. He would never in a million years be party to strategizing like that. That is -- that is literally illegal. It is improper, unethical behavior by a lawyer.
And I am completely confident that Tom Mesereau would never -- and did not tell Michael Jackson to fake being sick to avoid going to court.
Whether Jackson himself is either faking or exaggerating his symptoms, that's a separate question. But I don't think we can attribute this to a defense strategy without seeing really good proof of it, because I think it's unlikely.
O'BRIEN: All right. As you pointed out a little while ago, as we look at some of this videotape from just a short while ago, you can really feel for defense attorney Tom Mesereau, as he's on that phone, pleading with whomever is on the other end of the line to get his client in the right place. Probably talking to the judge saying, "I think I've got this under control." It's not the kind of thing you want to have to deal with in a case like this.
TOOBIN: No, and -- and keep in mind that this is the day that Tom Mesereau is probably going to have to conduct the most important cross-examination -- at least start the most important cross- examination of his life. And, you know, he's got to deal with this crisis, which is distracting, to say the least.
So this is a terrible day from Mesereau's perspective. And over and above everything else, he's got the very real problem of persuading the judge not to lock his client up for the rest of the trial and not to revoke his $3 million bond, which is a lot of money, even for Michael Jackson.
So -- I mean, Mesereau is dealing with a very full plate of problems today.
O'BRIEN: All right, Jeff Toobin, stand by there. Let's go to Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Back outside the courtroom there in Santa Maria, California, where our Miguel Marquez is standing by. Any more information from inside the courtroom if indeed this is going to get going any time soon, Miguel?
MARQUEZ: It looks like we're moving toward that, Kyra. The judge just took the stand and informed jurors that it was necessary to order Mr. Jackson here. This is typical of this judge. He doesn't want to prejudice the jury against the defendant if he really does have a serious medical problem.
The judge saying, "I don't want you to take any inference from what I've done, ordering Mr. Jackson here. This says nothing about his guilt or innocence. I am not expressing my opinion or anyone else's opinion about Mr. Jackson's guilt or innocence. You should take nothing from the fact that I had to order him here today."
And then he ended with sort of a little joke. This judge can be funny. If it were any of you, I would have done the exact same thing.
So telling the jurors that Mr. Jackson was late. Seeming to indicate, though that Mr. Jackson may, in fact, have a legitimate reason for his lateness and the judge may have bought it. I mean, this judge is somebody who is not shy to get on the phone, talk to doctors and make sure that Mr. Jackson does, in fact, have the condition that he says he has -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right. So Miguel, as we stand by and wait for things to get going and wait for things to happen, why don't you sort of go over what took place yesterday, testimony yesterday, kind of bring our viewers up to date, if they haven't been following to this point?
MARQUEZ: Yes, two things happened yesterday. One was the final cross-examination of the accuser's brother. And then about an hour before the court session ended yesterday, the judge said -- both sides said they were done with the accuser's brother.
And then both sides -- the judge said, Mr. Prosecutor, your next witness. And he said the name of the accuser. And there was a hush in the courtroom. And you could have literally heard a pin drop, had you a pin to drop in the courtroom. And the accuser came out a few minutes later.
And it was -- it is such a surreal feeling to see this man, this guy who we grew up with, listen to his music, and is world renowned, known in villages and cities around this world, having to sit there and listen to this 15-year-old make these accusations. I'm sure it's surreal for him. It's certainly surreal for us. It does say something about, you know, the justice system and about being human.
What this kid testified to yesterday was that on the first night there at Neverland, it was Mr. Jackson's suggestion that he and his brother spend the night in his bedroom. His parents acquiesced and said it was fine. Mr. Jackson, they went up there, he said, and watched movies. And then what ended up happening, says this kid, is that an associate of Mr. Jackson surfed Internet sites, adult Internet sites on the Internet for about 15 to 30 minutes.
And this is a kid, keep in mind, that called Mr. Jackson the coolest guy in the world yesterday on the stand, that he thought he was the coolest guy in the world. But then also said that Mr. Jackson wasn't there through much of his cancer treatments, sometimes giving him phone numbers that a month later didn't work, sometimes being at Neverland when he said he wasn't so that he wouldn't have to see him when he was there.
So there was a sort of a frustration there, trying to paint Mr. Jackson as somebody who really maybe didn't care about this kid.
Furthering that point, the Martin Bashir documentary. This kid testified yesterday that Jackson brought he and his siblings up to Neverland for the Martin Bashir documentary and told them, "This is your chance to be an actor. This is your audition. Call me -- I want you to call me Daddy Michael in this thing, or Daddy or Father. Refer to me that way. And I want -- I want you to tell Bashir that I was responsible or largely responsible for curing your cancer," which the kids seemed to deny yesterday.
It raises the question of who was manipulating who? The defense saying that this family is manipulating Jackson for his money. The prosecution now changing its tact ever so slightly to say that it was Jackson manipulating this boy and that family in order to use him for their own purposes.
Today we expected to get the real, the real -- the real meat of the testimony from this boy about what he says happened four times -- or at least two times from this guy, two times that his brother witnessed, two times to him that Mr. Jackson did to him -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right, our Miguel Marquez there outside the courtroom in Santa Maria, California. We're getting word possibly, Miguel, the trial might have resumed. We'll check back in with you as we get more details.
Meanwhile, we want to go back over to Miles.
O'BRIEN: All right. Jeff Toobin back with us.
Jeff, it appears they have resumed testimony. Still not very clear as to whether the judge will penalize Mr. Jackson in any way. We're going to get some more information on that. But let's assume for a minute that he said, "OK, we're off to the races, you know, second time." Third time is probably going to be even more challenging if that should occur.
And I just want to point out, a couple of viewers sent me e- mails. As he walked in, he was able to turn and address fans and wave to them as he came in. So it seemed as if his back pain was a bit selective.
Jeff Toobin, as far as the judge though, a third time, what is he going to be doing? Would he be kind of forced to put him in jail?
TOOBIN: Yes. Well, no one would force him. I mean, in fact, the defense would argue strenuously that he shouldn't do it.
But you know, Michael Jackson is obviously on very thin ice with the judge here, because, as we've discussed, at the arraignment last year, he was late and the judge laid into him. A couple of weeks ago, jury selection was delayed for a month because of Jackson's flu-like symptoms. And now this delay.
What's interesting about what the judge has done, and I think it's characteristic of the way he's tried the case, is what appears to have happened is he has said, "Look, the thing I want is to keep this jury occupied and to not waste their time."
So even though there are issues to be dealt with about bail and arrest warrants, he says, "Maybe we'll -- we'll deal with that after 2:30. But I want the jury in the box, hearing testimony."
So within, it seem, 20 minutes of Jackson's arrival at the courtroom, not really enough time to deal with those issues, the accuser was back on the stand, the jury was back in the box, and testimony resumed.
So the judge, like a lot of good judges, cares deeply about not wasting the jury's time, so that's what he's going to do is get the testimony going again and deal with the issues relating to bail and Jackson's arrest after the jury has left for the day.
O'BRIEN: So we can consider that probably at this point probably an open matter. And the point is let's press on and make sure that jury isn't wasting time.
TOOBIN: I think that's absolutely right. I think that's an accurate way to put it, that it's an open matter. But the key point, from the judge's perspective, is keeping testimony going, not wasting judge's time, not forcing accuser to wait unduly. Because after all, this is a stressful situation for him, too. And leave the issue of Jackson's status for another moment.
O'BRIEN: And a final thought here, on an attorney who has to deal with a client like this, who isn't always going to be toeing the line. What do you do?
TOOBIN: They don't teach it in law school, I'll tell you that, Miles. I mean, it's very difficult. Because you know, at one level, you've got to keep your client happy. And you've got to -- you know, make sure he continues to cooperate with you and trust you.
On the other hand, you've got to deal with a very angry judge, who's saying, "Look, I don't care what his problem is. He's got to be here on time or give us a lot more notice than he gave."
So it's -- it's really a difficult human relations problem. It's not a legal problem. For Tom Mesereau, dealing with the various constituencies: chiefly, his client, and the judge, you know, who are pulling him in very different directions.
O'BRIEN: All right, the paper chase meets the client chase, I guess. Jeff Toobin in New York, thank you very much.
We're going to break away from that and move on to other news. When we come back, we'll fill you in on former President Clinton under the knife. Dr. Sanjay Gupta will shed the light on that.
Lots more ahead. Stay with us on LIVE FROM.
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DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: ... five in the morning. That's pretty typical for someone who will have an early morning operation. Most hospitals like this start their first operation of the day around 7:30 or so. (AUDIO GAP) heard for sure is the operation will start at that time. That's a good guess probably.
Typically takes three or four hours, you know, an hour or so to get the patient ready and then three or four hours after that. So we're probably coming up upon the time the operation might be ending, if in fact, it happened at that point. Then he'll go to the recovery room after that, and we'll probably hear more around that time, I think, Miles.
O'BRIEN: All right. When you put it all altogether, the tsunami tour, the golf game, the visit to the White House, you get the sense there wasn't a lot of urgency linked to all of this. What if he just hadn't had the surgery?
GUPTA: Yes, you know, that's an interesting point, Miles. And the term elective has been thrown around as well, which I think is a bit of an overextension. It's really not an elective procedure like a nose job or rhinoplasty, for example.
On the other hand, it was scheduled, as we do know. I think his doctors probably would have preferred that he didn't have such a busy schedule just before that operation. But this is how his doctor put it.
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DR. ALLAN SCHWARTZ, NEW YORK PRESBYTERIAN HOSPITAL: This is not an emergency. This is being done to assure that he is able to continue to maintain a highly active lifestyle and that he's not at all functionally limited by his lung. But this is not a medically urgent procedure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUPTA: Still a procedure that needs to be done to help his breathing, to help his discomfort. To answer your question, Miles, if he hadn't had it done, those two things would have gotten worse. He said he was having difficulty breathing when walking up steep hills. Maybe he would have had difficulty breathing with less activity and that would obviously be a problem for him.
O'BRIEN: All right. Why don't you give us a lay person's primer on this surgery would you?
GUPTA: Yes, I would. And you know, as you point out, as well, Dr. Craig Smith, who did President Clinton's operation, done about 6,000 of these bypasses, said the complications occurred only about 10 times in his hands. I bet you he wishes one of those 10 times wasn't former President Clinton.
But what needs to be done here is what's called decortication. You actually make some small incisions in the chest wall, put in some instruments to basically try and remove some of that scar tissue.
Think of it like an orange peel almost, Miles. That's sort of the consistency of it, an orange peel enveloping the bottom part of the lung. Strip away that peel, drain that fluid. That's the goal of the procedure. If those two things happen successfully, it shouldn't be a problem for him in the future, Miles.
O'BRIEN: And just to clarify, it's not open heart surgery. They don't open you wide up. It's done through the ribs, right?
GUPTA: It's very important. It's not heart surgery at all, period, really. This is lung surgery for most the part. It was a consequence of the scarring from his heart surgery. But this is not open heart surgery. This isn't heart surgery, period.
O'BRIEN: All right. Dr. Gupta in New York, thank you very much -- Kyra.
GUPTA: Thank you.
PHILLIPS: Big leaguers, big government and the big problem with steroids. These players called on to testify on Capitol Hill.
And look closely at this guy. (AUDIO GAP) Here's a hint: this clean cut young man would love you two times, baby. The answer ahead on LIVE FROM.
But quickly, let's check back in with Miguel Marquez, outside the courtroom there in Santa Maria, California, with the latest on the Michael Jackson trial.
What do you know, Miguel? MARQUEZ: Yes, I just talked to a court administrator here in Santa Maria, and he says that he believes the judge has a bit more for Mr. Jackson today. The judge came onto the stand -- or onto his bench a short time ago and admonished jurors, telling them not to draw any inference about Mr. Jackson's guilt or innocence because he had to order them here today. Sort of joking with the jury, he said if it was any one of you, I would have done the exact same thing. Maybe not so joking so much.
But the court administrator believes that there is probably some more that will have to be discussed. The -- Mr. Jackson, his lawyer and the prosecutor were in the judge's chambers for some time. It's not clear what the judge will do about the order he -- he made a short -- earlier today, saying that if Mr. Jackson didn't show up by a certain hour, he was going to have him arrested and revoke his bail.
We believe that the judge will have some more information a little bit later. We believe that the judge may have more to say on that in open court, probably not with the jurors there, but in open court later today, possibly at the end of the court day at 2:30 p.m. Pacific Time.
Back to you.
PHILLIPS: All right, Miguel, thanks so much. We'll continue to check in throughout the day.
We're going to take a quick break. More LIVE FROM right after this.
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O'BRIEN: Air marshals, C. Perimeter security, D. Cargo screening, credentialing, crew training, F. Dismal grades from an airline pilots group on U.S. aviation security 3 1/2 years after air security was compromised like never before.
We get some details from John Safley, president of the Coalition of Airline Pilots Association, CAPA, in Washington.
Good to have you with us, Mr. Safley. And this is part of a series of report cards that pilots have weighed in on, on aviation security. What's the whole purpose here?
JOHN SAFLEY, PRESIDENT, CAPA: The whole purpose is just to make sure that the American public understands how the pilots see the overall security program that we deal with day in and day out. And one of the key points we made today at our press conference was the fact that these grades have not changed since we resurrected report card two years ago.
O'BRIEN: All right. Let's go through it very quickly if we could. SAFLEY: Sure.
O'BRIEN: Screening bags, B. Cockpit doors, B. Federal air marshals, C. Given a C because there's just not enough of them.
Moving on. Crew training in the classroom, a C. Perimeter security a D. This is a particularly important issue when you start thinking about those shoulder fired missiles in particular. D, threat intelligence, not shared well with the airline.
Let's get -- I want to home in a little bit on the next item. D, pilots with guns. I was out in Artesia, New Mexico, where they're training these federal flight deck officers. And it's not an easy thing for a pilot to participate in. You have to do it on your own time, pay out your own money. All kind of restriction on how you do the job of carrying a weapon in the cockpit.
Is that the concern, that it's not implemented properly?
SAFLEY: That's part of the concern. The primary reason, though, that we grade it a D is that there are so few FFDO's, as we refer to them, out on the line today. In fact, there are less than 5,000 of the pilots in America that have gone through this training and are armed to protect our domestic flights.
O'BRIEN: Well, certainly if you made it easier, you'd probably have bigger numbers, right?
SAFLEY: Well, if we had more training, if we had more training sites, we'd have more people. If the application process, perhaps, was just a little bit more streamlined. And also, if the operational policies that are laid down by the TSA were a little more smooth, if you will, I think we would get more people there.
O'BRIEN: OK.
SAFLEY: We continue, though, to have people applying, and the numbers are gradually coming up. But they're not where they need to be.
O'BRIEN: OK. Of course, you could say that just the fact that they're out there might provide a deterrent, no matter what the numbers. All right. Let's move down.
SAFLEY: Absolutely.
O'BRIEN: Screening passengers, and we're talking now about the biometrics, for example, and also the employees. And this is -- this is a thing most people just do not see or really comprehend, I think, of how loose the security is on the backside of the airport. We're talking about the people that are doing the catering trucks and all of that kind of thing.
What is being done about that aspect of airport security?
SAFLEY: Really nothing right now. And that's what concerns us probably the most at CAPA. We have all the airline employees, airport employees, contractors, vendors, all these different people who come in and, if you will, lay their land on our airplanes.
But they go through no screening whatsoever. So unlike the pilots and passengers on the top, they don't go through a magnetometer. Their bags aren't screened in any way. Most of them simply have airport cards that allow them into the airport area. They swipe them and come to work.
O'BRIEN: All right, let's move on. Let's get the final points here. Because I want to wrap this up. F for credentialing. F for crew training and self-defense. Pilots and flight attendants aren't typically taught in a routine way how to defend themselves on an airplane.
Then finally, missile defense. This is a big bugaboo. It's a real concern, that surface to air missiles, shoulder-fired missiles could be in the hand of terrorists. And there are ways to guard against this, expensive ways.
Are you suggesting the airlines, in as bad a shape they are financially, should foot this bill? Should the government foot this bill? What should be done?
SAFLEY: I think that the -- the footing of bill itself I think is going to depend, and the government and the airlines would have to work that out.
First, we have to determine, though, exactly what the threat is. And as we saw from that DHL Airbus that was popped by an SA-7 in Baghdad, the threat is real. What we need to do is continue the testing, like DHS is doing, and then make the decision how and when we're going to deploy these counter MANPAD systems on our commercial aircraft.
O'BRIEN: Final thought here. As you read this report card, what I walk away with is the sense that security as we have it now is window dressing. It's meant to put on a show for passengers. And the reality, the things they don't see, are not being addressed. Would you agree?
SAFLEY: I would agree with that, yes, unfortunately.
O'BRIEN: All right. Captain Safley, always fly safely. We appreciate your time.
SAFLEY: I'll do it just for you.
O'BRIEN: CNN is committed to providing the most reliable coverage of news that affects your security. Stay tuned to CNN for news about your security 24/7.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
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