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Search Continues for Suspect in Atlanta Shootings

Aired March 11, 2005 - 14:30 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON SEBASTIAN, N.J. INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY: So the grip of the gun, this blue plastic portion, has little tiny pressure transducers, little drum heads, that can pick up how hard I'm squeezing the gun while I'm pulling the trigger. So if you think of a weather map with isobars, the colored indications of how we have high and low pressure zones that move across the country to develop the weather, the same thing happens when we squeeze the gun -- we're creating zones of high and low pressure on the grip of the gun.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: And that is unique like a fingerprint would be, that each person has a different, distinct grip?

SEBASTIAN: This is what's so amazing is that it is both unique and it's reproducible, meaning that when we do the pull of the trigger as a reflexive action, we're getting something which we do the same way over and over and over again. So it's unique to me as it is unique to you and we do it in a way that can be trained once and measured repeatedly against that trained set.

O'BRIEN: OK and the real rub, the real tricky part in all of this is making it fast enough to make that, you know, tenth of a second decision to say, oh, this is the owner, I'm going to fire. And, yet, not so sensitive that it would allow someone else, someone who you wouldn't want to fire that gun, to be able to do the same?

SEBASTIAN: True of all biometrics, in fact. You want to be sure that you have enough variation to capture normal variations. And, yet, at the same time, that you don't close the window so tight that the authorized user is, at some instances, not recognized as appropriate. Either allowing someone who is not supposed to fire it or blocking an authorized user are two things that would render the technology unacceptable in the marketplace.

O'BRIEN: Now you're a few years away from bringing things to market. There are things that are currently out there. We've done some stories over the years. As a matter of fact, I did one way back in '94, '95 with sort of a wristband technology, which essentially, using radio transmitters, identifies the proximity to the transmitter. So in other words, if the gun gets separated from the officer who has that transmitter on, as long as the transmitter stays with the officer, it renders the gun harmless. Does that kind of technology work pretty well?

SEBASTIAN: Very well put. Well, that's still a technology under development. The federal government sponsored work and really popularized the term smart gun in the early '90s to prevent much of the situation that we saw today, a weapon taken away from a police officer in close combat and used against him. And, at that time, the best available technology was the proximity sensor approach, radio frequency, I.D. tags.

We knew them back then as the shoplifting tags on clothing in the mall and now we know I.D. tagging is perhaps the replacement for the bar code in the future. But the idea is that something that you wear, whether it's a wristband, a badge, a ring, contains some of the electronics that responds to the radio frequency from the gun. And when you are too far away, the gun realizes that it doesn't have that authentication signal and turns off.

O'BRIEN: All right, just quickly then, so just to wrap it up here. Isn't it high time we got some of these -- this technology on the market?

SEBASTIAN: It sure is. It sure is. Too often we've confused gun safety with gun control and it's mired the development of the technology. It's unfortunate that we need tragedies like this to bring the situation to light. Let's hope that we can make some good out of a very, bad situation.

O'BRIEN: Don Sebastian is with the New Jersey Institute of Technology in Newark. He is senior vice president of research and development. Thanks very much for your time. I appreciate it.

SEBASTIAN: Thank you for the time.

O'BRIEN: We are expecting a news conference. Matter of fact, there is a live signal there. Not far away. A reporter from one of our affiliates standing in front of that signal. But the mayor of Atlanta, the police chief of Atlanta, expected to brief us momentarily. We're going to bring that to you live as soon as it happens -- Kyra.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: And if you're just tuning in, once again, you're watching breaking news coverage at this hour. Just to remind you of what happened, if you are just tuning in, 9:00 a.m. this morning, at the Fulton County Courthouse here in Atlanta, Georgia, a defendant on trial for rape grabbed a gun from a deputy, opened fire, killing three people. These are the highlights. A judge, a court reporter, and a deputy were killed when that defendant grabbed the deputy's gun. That judge, a well-known superior court judge, Rowland Barnes, very well-respected in this community, was killed. Another deputy was wounded, not life threatening, we are told.

And right now, the search is underway for this man, Brian Nichols, believed to be 33 years old, African-American, possibly driving a green Honda with the following license plate. Of course, if you have any information about this car or about this man, Brian Nichols, you're asked to call the police department in Fulton County or, of course, the city of Atlanta. Right now, more than 30 Atlanta public schools are on lockdown and we're on the search with authorities to find Brian Nichols.

Quick break. More LIVE FROM right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Live picture from Atlanta City Hall there. We just got the two-minute warning. We're expecting a news conference on the search for the suspect, Brian Nichols, a man police believe opened fire inside this courtroom, killing three people, including a superior court judge, a sheriff's deputy, and also -- actually stepping up to the podium, it looks like Shirley Franklin, the mayor of Atlanta. Sure, it indeed -- it is. It is the mayor.

She's stepping up to the mike, going to brief reporters. Obviously, surrounded by her fire and police personnel. Let's listen in to what she has to say about this shooting that has now left three people dead inside this courthouse. She's on the steps of that courthouse here in Atlanta, Georgia. That's the Fulton County Courthouse, in case you're not familiar. Let's listen in.

MAYOR SHIRLEY FRANKLIN, ATLANTA, GEORGIA: ... everybody to gather at the same time and we come to express our condolences to the families of the victims. Our prayers are with the deputy, who is still recovering. We recognize that this is a very scary situation. We have witnessed in Atlanta today an act of violence in the criminal justice system that is certainly disconcerting, but we've come to offer our condolences to the families, to announce what we are doing and Deputy Chief Dreher is going to fill you in on the investigation, but it is our intent to continue this search and to bring the resources to bear so that we can apprehend the perpetrator.

Again, I want to say how sad it is for us that the loss of life, the families who are directly affected and those who were in the courtroom and in the building and how terrified they must have been under these circumstances. Deputy Chief Dreher is standing to my right, and Chief Rubin, who was among those who responded immediately, is to my left. But we're going to start with Deputy Chief Dreher, and then take your questions.

ALAN DREHER, DEPUTY CHIEF, ATLANTA POLICE DEPT.: Thank you, Mayor. Good afternoon.

I'd like to take a few minutes to give you some preliminary findings of our investigation so far. I'm just keeping in mind we're still interviewing witnesses and we're still processing the crime scene.

Early this morning, shortly after court was convening, at Fulton County Superior Court, the suspect was on his way to the courtroom. It appears that he was -- he overwhelmed a deputy sheriff on his way to court and it appears that he took possession of her handgun. The deputy sheriff was injured as a result of that struggle. The suspect made his way into the courtroom and held all of the persons inside at bay with a handgun. He then shot and killed the judge, shot and killed the court stenographer, and made his escape from the courtroom.

He managed to get outside of the court building where he encountered another deputy sheriff and that encounter resulted in the suspect shooting and killing the deputy sheriff. The suspect made good his escape from the general area. It appears that he committed several other crimes as he was making good his escape.

We're currently manning an emergency command post. I've got a tip line for you. Let me give that to you now. That number is 404- 730-7983 or 84. We've got units working around the clock and we're going to continue to work around the clock to make sure that we bring the suspect to justice. We're working closely and in conjunction with federal, state, and local agencies. We've identified several locations of interest to us. We've formed fugitive teams. We received help from the GBI, Fulton County, the FBI, ATF, other federal agencies, and we're working as a team, working very diligently to bring the suspect to justice.

FRANKLIN: Do you have questions?

QUESTION: Chief, was the deputy, was the deputy alone? Was she the only law enforcement person with the suspect at the time that he overpowered her?

DREHER: Well, we're still interviewing witnesses. We're trying to obtain a statement from her. She's been sedated but it appears that is probably the case.

QUESTION: Where in the courthouse did this occur?

QUESTION: Was he out on bond? Was he in custody at the time this all happened?

DREHER: I believe he was in custody. The deputy sheriff was bringing him to the courtroom.

QUESTION: He was making his way from the detention area to the courtroom?

DREHER: That's my understanding.

QUESTION: Where in the courthouse did this happen, Chief?

DREHER: That's a question for the sheriff to answer. I'm not sure.

QUESTION: Where in the courthouse did this happen? Did this happen in a corridor, initially, the overpowering of the deputy?

DREHER: I believe it happened somewhere between the detention facility and the courtroom itself.

QUESTION: Chief, can you give us any indication of the weapon itself and what it takes to recoup the weapon? (OFF-MIKE)

DREHER: Our holsters are certainly very secure and -- I can't speak to which holsters the deputy sheriffs wear. As you know, the deputy sheriffs are in charge of the security of the jail and they're run by Fulton County so you'll have to ask the sheriff that.

QUESTION: Apparently, there was a prior incident on Wednesday where a shank was found in his shoe. What extra precautions taken after that, because, obviously, there must have been a concern he might do something bad?

DREHER: That is a question that -- the sheriff's department runs security at the courthouse. You'll have to ask the sheriff.

QUESTION: Was the deputy shot?

DREHER: Pardon me?

QUESTION: The deputy with the weapon, was she shot?

DREHER: We don't believe so at this time.

QUESTION: Was he handcuffed at the time of the incident where he got the gun away from the deputy?

DREHER: We believe that the two were alone and I can't answer that question. We're trying to interview the deputy sheriff and she is sedated so that answer will have to be forth coming.

QUESTION: Shortly after it happened, downtown was abuzz with activity. We stopped at a parking garage where at least one Isuzu car was carjacked. Can you give us a timeline of this thing went down, how he got away, or where you think he may have gone?

DREHER: Well, all I can tell you right now is we're still looking -- the last known vehicle is a 1997 Honda Accord. Georgia tags 6584 Y, Yankee, N, Nancy. We're still piecing together all the witness statements, and putting together all the crimes he may have committed to make good his escape.

QUESTION: The Honda Accord, was that the reporter's vehicle, or someone else's vehicle...?

DREHER: It's my understanding that was the vehicle that was taken at 250 Spring Street.

QUESTION: How long was he alone with the deputy?

DREHER: I can't answer that. You'll have to ask the sheriff's department. When they come up for trial, they change out of their prison attire and they put on a suit. They're allowed to wear suit coats.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

DREHER: We're still piecing that together with the information from the witnesses as we're taking statements.

QUESTION: In plain clothes?

DREHER: Yes.

QUESTION: Chief, if it turns out that the deputy was alone, which is suspect, I'm not asking you to armchair quarterback, but based on your police experience, should that have happened? DREHER: You know, the sheriff would be better able to answer that than I am. We have our procedures at the police department. The sheriff has his procedures, so it wouldn't be fair to make an assessment of that right now.

QUESTION: What kind of gun was it that he took, that he may still be carrying? Some type of hand gun?

DREHER: I'm not certain. Some sort of semiautomatic, so we're still trying to assess with whether it was actually the deputy's weapon that was taken.

QUESTION: How many other people were in the courtroom at the time?

DREHER: I don't have an exact figure, but suffice to say it was probably well over a dozen.

QUESTION: Can you give us an indication, sir, of this man's emotional state and his danger to this community?

DREHER: I certainly wouldn't be able to really answer about his emotional state. But suffice it so say that we're not going to rest until we have him in custody. We all of the investigative arms of law enforcement at our disposal and we're going to conjunction with each other. We have the latest investigative tools to make sure that we bring him to justice swiftly.

QUESTION: I'm sorry, you said over a dozen shots were fired?

DREHER: No, they asked how many were in the courtroom.

QUESTION: Chief, when was the last confirmed sighting of the suspect?

DREHER: We're receiving a lot of tips, and we're following up on a lot of leads. We encourage anyone with any information to call the hotline number I just gave you. So we're continually following leads right now.

QUESTION: Was the gun found or is he still armed? Do you know?

DREHER: One weapon was located at the scene. We're checking serial numbers to see if it belonged to the deputy or whether it didn't, so can't say. We just are going to assume that he's armed and dangerous.

QUESTION: Chief, was this deputy knocked unconscious before her gun was taken or did it happen all simultaneously?

DREHER: We are a going to have to wait until we interview her to get that information.

QUESTION: Chief, can you tell us about the injuries, and the judge, and the court stenographer suffered -- did they get one bullet wound each or more? Do you know how many shots were fired in the courtroom?

DREHER: Well, yes...

QUESTION: And where was the gun recovered?

DREHER: One weapon was recovered outside the courthouse. We'll wait for the further findings from the -- to determine exactly how many times bullets were struck.

QUESTION: Was there...

QUESTION: ...where they were struck?

DREHER: Once we get all of the information, we'll give that to you.

QUESTION: Chief, was there a standoff inside the courtroom for a time? Was there a hostage situation per se?

DREHER: You know, we're still interviewing several witnesses that were in the courtroom, but it appears that he held them at bay for some -- for a short period of time until he actually...

QUESTION: Did anyone know this was going on at the time outside of that courtroom?

DREHER: Not to my knowledge.

QUESTION: Was this -- (OFF-MIKE) Do you know why he did this? Was this just fear of being convicted?

DREHER: We can't get inside his head, but we're still interviewing people and getting all of the statements from all of the persons that were a witness to the incident in the courtroom, so once we have all of that information, we can provide that to you.

QUESTION: Chief, do you know if there was-- was going on from a civil case to a criminal case, and that is why there were less people in that courtroom?

DREHER: I don't have that information, but we'll get that for you. It's my understanding it was a criminal trial. I think it was a retrial.

QUESTION: The deputy whose gun was taken, she was the only deputy in the immediate area?

DREHER: We'll have to wait to interview her. She's sedated. Once we get that information, we'll be able to speak to that.

QUESTION: No other deputies have came forward to suggest they were in the vicinity?

DREHER: Not that I'm aware of.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) DREHER: We're not going to release any names until all of the next of kin have been notified. We're in the process of doing that, so we'll release those when they've been notified.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) Can you tell us how many cars you know that he took and where they were?

DREHER: All I can tell you right now is we're looking for that green Honda Accord and anybody with information -- from Spring Street -- that's the last known vehicle we believe he was in.

QUESTION: Do you think he was -- do you think it was about three or four? Can you give me a ballpark figure?

DREHER: We're still putting all that information together.

QUESTION: Do you know overall how many shots he fired? The suspect.

DREHER: No, not yet. We'll know more. We found several casings and we're still in the process of--

QUESTION: Rough ballpark? six, 12?

DREHER: Several.

QUESTION: Do you know the caliber of the weapon?

DREHER: We'll have to wait until we get the examination done.

QUESTION: Were any of the victims...

QUESTION: (OFF MIKE) around 285 and Rosle (ph) road. What is the status of the search right now?

DREHER: We're in the process of monitoring numerous locations.

QUESTION: What should we report to the folks about the status of this individual, this subject? What can we say about him?

DREHER: What I would say is that we've got all the latest investigative tools at our disposal, the latest technology, we've got the help from all of our law enforcement partners, federal, state, and local. And I believe we're going to bring this to some swift justice and I would tell them if this was an incident that occurred in the courthouse, we've got a lot of activities going on this weekend and people are going to be concerned, but I would say that it was pretty much confined to the courthouse. We had some incidents as he fled the area, but we're going to bring him to justice and we're working around the clock and we're going to be relentless.

QUESTION: Chief, is there reason to...

QUESTION: Is there any procedure for one deputy to support a prisoner from a detention center to the courthouse?

DREHER: You'll have to ask the sheriff about that.

QUESTION: Was this an Atlanta P.D. case originally? The original arrest?

DREHER: I believe it was a North Fulton County case.

QUESTION: Chief, any reason to believe he may have gone past the borders of Georgia?

DREHER: You know, that's possible. But we have -- we have our federal partners, have resources all around the country. They've passed the information along. They know exactly what we're looking for. And so we're working as a team. The federal agencies span -- you know, you can't say one state, two states. Every one's been notified.

QUESTION: Were any of those who were killed able to make statements of any kind before they passed away?

DREHER: Not to my knowledge.

APD is the lead agency on the homicide investigation.

QUESTION: Can tell us a little bit more about the rape case, the trial, that is. In other words, what he was accused of doing?

DREHER: I don't have the background on that rape case at this time.

Pardon me?

QUESTION: Prior (OFF MIKE)?

DREHER: I'm not aware of his history right now.

QUESTION: Chief, can you clarify what the deputy (OFF MIKE) when he with him alone? (OFF MIKE).

DREHER: She does have some injuries. It does not appear that it's a gunshot wound at this time. It may have come from some other method.

QUESTION: Chief, all of the activities taking place inside the courtroom? Did he go into the chambers at any point during this?

DREHER: He traversed from the detention area into the courtroom and the deputy that was shot and killed was outside of the courthouse.

QUESTION: Is there a detention area? Is there a holding cell like there is in the new part of the courthouse?

DREHER: I believe so.

(OFF MIKE QUESTION)

DREHER: Yes. That's my understanding. QUESTION: So he was being escorted to the courtroom?

DREHER: Yes.

QUESTION: (OFF MIKE) Detention room to the courthouse door?

DREHER: You'll have to ask the sheriff that. I'm not sure of those dimensions.

QUESTION: Was he under custody or had he bonded out at that public case?

DREHER: I believe in custody at the time.

QUESTION: So then you're saying he came out of the detention center when he started shooting and he got his gun inside the detention center, the detention holding facility?

DREHER: As soon as we're able to interview the deputy sheriff, then we'll get that information.

QUESTION: So we're not sure if this took place, the overpowering the deputy, in a hallway, in a jury room, in a courtroom or exactly where at this point?

DREHER: Not at this particular point in time, we're not aware.

QUESTION: Was the jury in the courtroom?

DREHER: I'm not aware of that information. I believe the court was just beginning to convene. I do not believe the aviazor (ph) were in yet.

QUESTION: And what can you say about what he was wearing? Was he or was he not in overalls and (OFF MIKE)?

DREHER: I do not believe he was in his overalls. I believe he changed into his suit.

QUESTION: How much harder does that make him to find?

DREHER: We know what kind of car we're looking for. We have his photographs. It will make it -- obviously, if he was wearing jail clothes, it would make it a little bit easier, but we know what he looks like and we've got the word out. We want to make sure that anybody that knows him or even forward any addresses they think he may go to us.

QUESTION: To use the old-fashioned term, is there a dragnet, a cordon, thrown up on highways around metro Atlanta?

DREHER: We don't have a dragnet cordoned off now. We have several locations that we're interested in and we're pursuing.

QUESTION: Chief, was anybody able to return fire at all?

DREHER: It didn't appear to be so, but we still have some more investigation to do on that.

QUESTION: Were any of the witnesses able to give you any statements as to what he may have said possibly before he fired those shots in the courtroom?

DREHER: We're not going to divulge any witness statements at this time.

QUESTION: Chief, are you in contact with the Fort Lauderdale or the Broward County authorities? I understand he has a previous address that they've been checking into.

DREHER: We have several previous addresses we're checking into, several locations that we have interest in and we're pursuing them all.

QUESTION: The victims are the judge, the court clerk and the deputy that was shot outside? Is the fourth victim the deputy that was overcome?

DREHER: Yes.

QUESTION: And what can you say about efforts to stop or deflect? Were there any gun shots pointed at him?

DREHER: Not to my knowledge, no.

QUESTION: Mayor Franklin, is the city of Atlanta going to offer any kind of special assistance or reward or anything to bring this further?

FRANKLIN: We certainly have already started. The chief has called in the fugitive squads, has also called in the homicide squads. We have a fully staffed effort. We will continue to advise you and ask you to advise the public as those efforts continue. We appreciate, however, that you have helped us by using his photograph. And we're asking everyone who has a tip to call in the hotline number so that we can swiftly apprehend this suspect.

Atlanta is the kind of city, it is a caring city, and it's important for us to remember the families as we are continuing the police investigation. It is very important that we all keep them in our prayers. It is very easy for us to become engrossed in the details of the investigation, but I would hope that as you are making your reports, you will also send out prayers and blessings for the families of those who are victimized today.

QUESTION: Chief Rubin how many of the victims...

FRANKLIN: I'm not finished, Martin. Thanks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, I'm sorry. Excuse me.

FRANKLIN: In addition, I would say that we are hosting some major events. We have our police force and help from state and federal agencies to be sure that the city is safe. We would urge everyone to pay attention to what's going on around them. But, at the same time, it is our intention to have a city that is safe throughout the other days coming ahead. And now Chief Rubin will come to answer your questions.

QUESTION: Thank you very much. Chief Rubin -- thank you, Mayor. Chief, how many of the victims were alive when rescue authorities arrived on the scene?

CHIEF DENNIS RUBIN, ATLANTA FIRE DEPARTMENT: We had the opportunity to try to assist two folks in the process. Throughout the morning, we worked very closely with the Atlanta Police Department, of course, the Fulton County sheriff's department. Grady ambulance was a major player as well. And not only did they treat those two individuals and saw to their expedient transportation to the trauma units, there were also four other persons that had a significant psychological reaction that we assisted, as well as one person had shortness of breath.

QUESTION: The deputy who was shot outside the courthouse, whomever is most appropriate to ask, do you believe that that deputy knew he was confronting the suspect? Did he give his life in an effort to stop him?

DREHER: It's my information that the deputy was pursuing the subject. So I believe he thought his life may be in peril.

QUESTION: Chief, did you give two phone numbers?

DREHER: Yes, actually. The number I gave 404-730-7983 or 7984.

QUESTION: Chief, you said (OFF MIKE).

RUBIN: We did assist two people that were in a very critical condition. They were transported to Grady, the trauma center. One expired. I think the chief described that. And the other one is in critical condition currently. The other folks -- specifically, I'm not sure. The other folks were treated and released on the scene and, in fact, I think perhaps the city psychological services doctor may very well be with some of the folks that experienced some psychological problems.

QUESTION: Were the two people taken to the hospital?

(OFF MIKE QUESTION)

RUBIN: We're probably not at a point to give out that specific information yet.

QUESTION: Were the two people who were killed in the courtroom, were they transported to the hospital or just killed in the courtroom?

DREHER: To my knowledge, they remained...

RUBIN: They were obvious fatalities, unfortunately, and were not transported. What happened next, essentially, the police department provided protective services while the fire department swept floor to floor from the top of the building to the bottom of the building. That's when we discovered the folks -- one person had chest pains, shortness of breath. Four other folks that happened to witness it, what a horrible event, they had psychological reactions. But the extent of the victims that the fire department provided service for today were too critical and then five assisted, pretty minor.

QUESTION: Chief Dreher, one point of clarification. You talked about the judge, the court stenographer and a deputy outside who have died. And you talked about the deputy, the female deputy whose gun was taken being injured. There's a fifth person who is in critical condition. What is that person's condition and how (OFF-MIKE) that person (OFF-MIKE)

ALAN DREHER, ATLANTA DEPUTY POLICE CHIEF: Female deputy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is no fifth person.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: The person in critical condition is the (OFF-MIKE)

(CROSSTALK)

DREHER: Is the female deputy that was overpowered, right. So, there's four.

QUESTION: Chief, we're trying to clarify. Just what -- is there an issue as to whether or not there is an appropriate holding cell near Judge Barnes' courtroom or near the area where this took place? Was -- is it your understanding that the suspect was in some kind of jury room or other facility besides a holding cell?

DREHER: I'm not aware of that information. That's a question you need to ask the sheriff.

Thank you.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) escorts him to the courtroom, deputy A, is wounded when he takes the gun.

(CROSSTALK)

DREHER: She -- yes, was injured at some point in time during that struggle.

QUESTION: She was not shot?

DREHER: It's my information at this point that she was not shot.

QUESTION: He goes into the courtroom and he shoots two victims there. They both die?

DREHER: Yes.

QUESTION: He comes out and then the third fatal victim is outside the courthouse. DREHER: Yes. The confrontation came outside the courthouse.

QUESTION: When did he begin pursuing him?

DREHER: We're in the process of getting statements now still. We won't be able to answer that.

QUESTION: Were you able to rush everybody out of the courthouse immediately or was there a delay?

DREHER: It was a pretty swift evacuation.

QUESTION: Everybody?

DREHER: Or got to safety.

QUESTION: Were any of the other judges placed in protective -- were they protected by police or anything? (OFF-MIKE)

DREHER: I'm not aware that any of the judges are in protective custody at this point.

QUESTION: Chief, what is the status of the courthouse now? Is it business as usual as can be or a high state of alert?

DREHER: The courthouse is a crime scene now. And it's going to be quite some time until we finish processing that scene. It's a complex scene. And we're going to take our time. We have the assistance of the GBI and our federal partners. So, we're going to make sure that we take our time and do a thorough job to make sure we gather every bit of evidence that's there.

QUESTION: Is the court going to be closed on Monday?

DREHER: I would imagine.

QUESTION: Can you say anything about this man's intent when he entered the courtroom? Was he on a kind of shooting spree or could you say with any guess, and make an educated guess as to whether he had specific targets?

DREHER: I wouldn't be able to guess what was in his mind. But I can say that we're getting statements from all those persons that were in the courtroom at the time and what they heard and what they saw and then we'll take that information and then we can go forward from there.

QUESTION: Is there an indication Judge Barnes was specifically targeted, that this was not a random act by this shooter?

DREHER: I mean, obviously, there's some linkage, since he was going to trial in front of the judge. But what that linkage is, you know, I can't say with certainty.

QUESTION: Chief, do you know if he has changed at all since that picture was taken? Is his hair about the same length still, do you know?

DREHER: I believe it's a recent photograph. And I believe it was taken at the Fulton County jail. But I'm not certain exactly how old it is.

QUESTION: Is there any security videotapes of anything that happened (OFF-MIKE)

DREHER: We're still exploring that now. They have -- they have some types of monitors there. The sheriff will better be able to answer exactly what their system entails. But we're certainly interested. We know it's there. And if there's any video at all, we'll make sure that we get that.

QUESTION: Chief, did he say anything of value inside the courtroom before he did what he did that other people have been able to tell you about?

DREHER: Yes. We're in the process of interviewing witnesses. And when we get all that information, that's a part of the case. But, right now, there's nothing that I can give you to indicate what he uttered in the courtroom.

QUESTION: Chief, can you tell us where Chief Pennington is at this time? Is he assisting with the investigation?

DREHER: Yes. Chief Pennington was out of town today. He's on the way back and he'll be here in an hour or two. So, he's -- I've kept him fully apprised from 9:00 this morning. We have talked about every 15, 20 minutes. So he's fully up to speed with the investigation. And we've been in contact all day long.

QUESTION: Chief, if the suspects...

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: ... the gun, any handcuffs or mace or any other things from the deputy or anyone else in the courtroom...

(CROSSTALK)

DREHER: We're still -- we're still in the process of getting those witness statements and getting that information.

QUESTION: If the suspect is watching this, what is the best way for him to surrender? What is the way that you would urge him to come in?

DREHER: I would urge him to call the tip line that we just gave out or call 911. They can call the homicide office. There's any number, but the tip line would probably be the best. And if he's not comfortable with any of that, he can call my office or Chief Pennington's office and we'll arrange for a safe surrender.

QUESTION: Do you have something scheduled for later, another briefing? DREHER: There probably won't be anything substantial to add later on.

QUESTION: Unless, of course, he's caught.

DREHER: Unless, of course, he's caught, unless, of course, we have some additional information that we would like to have you put out to the public to assist us in the investigation. So, if that were to occur, we'll certainly call you right away and assemble again.

QUESTION: Thank you very much for this briefing.

DREHER: OK.

QUESTION: Thank you.

DREHER: Thank you very much.

PHILLIPS: Been listening to a live news conference there on the steps of the Fulton County Courthouse here in Atlanta, Georgia, where that shooting took place at 9:00 Eastern this morning.

If you're just tuning in, you're watching breaking news coverage here out of our Atlanta headquarters. What we know at this point, that the police -- or the deputy chief there of Atlanta Police, Alan Dreher, did confirm -- things were a bit sketchy at first.

And, actually, Miles, you had received this information earlier on from a judge inside the courthouse. And it looks like it's pretty much matching up with what the deputy chief said. And that is, Brian Nichols, who was on trial for rape, was headed to the courtroom to sit before Judge Rowland Barnes. He was with a female deputy. He at some point knocked her out, took her gun, came in the courtroom, shot the judge dead, shot the court reporter dead.

And then, while he was fleeing, another sheriff's deputy was coming after him and he was shot and killed by this suspect on the outside steps of the courthouse.

Is that what we have?

O'BRIEN: Yes.

PHILLIPS: Is that what you're following so far?

O'BRIEN: And this paints a little different picture than what we have been telling folks pretty much all day, that it sort of happened instantaneously inside a courtroom.

As a matter of fact, my source has told me that the initial overpowering occurred in the elevator inside the new tower of that Fulton County Superior courthouse, which is adjacent to the older building, where Judge Barnes' courtroom was.

He -- the suspect was alone in that elevator, apparently, with this female deputy and probably was cuffed in some way. But it is fairly customary to handcuff prisoners in these cases in front of their -- not behind their back, but in front, so that they can be led along on a chain as multiple suspects are brought into the facility to face trial and hearing and so forth.

So, what that raises is several questions. First of all, why was that single solitary female deputy alone with this person who clearly outweighed her, had tremendous strength at 6'1'', 210 pounds? Secondly, this suspect was able to, apparently, go the distance from wherever that elevator well is, all the way across that new tower, in across a catwalk into that old building, which I'm told is a less secure facility in general.

And they had been encouraging Judge Barnes over the years to move into the more secure new facility. But, having said all that, apparently, the overpowering occurred in the new facility, nevertheless, made his way to that courtroom and I am told held other people at bay in that courtroom, perhaps even getting ahold of twist ties or handcuffs to hold them at bay, and then calmly, coolly, I'm told by witnesses on the scene there, fired two shots, one fatal shot to the judge and one fatal shot to the court reporter, and then made his way out.

Finally, at a subsequent time, down on the sidewalk, apparently pursued by another deputy who apparently gave chase -- probably, I can presume shots were exchanged, and that deputy also fell. So, that paints a much different picture and raises in my mind several more questions about security issues inside that courthouse.

PHILLIPS: And it's raised quite a debate now about security in that courthouse. But now the deputy chief has come forward. He said he has put together several fugitive teams.

They're going to work 24/7 to find this man, Brian Nichols, that they believe is armed and dangerous, somewhere out there on the road. If you, anyone out there in the public sees his picture or this license plate, Georgia license plate, he was last seen in a green Honda Accord, 6584 YN. Once again, here's his picture, Brian Nichols, the man police believe shot and killed three innocent people, a superior court judge, a sheriff's deputy, and also a court reporter.

The female that he overpowered and took the gun from, we're told right now is sedated and is not able to give any further information at this point. But we're going to follow the hunt and the search for Brian Nichols.

Meanwhile, our affiliates have been covering this story, every affiliate here in Atlanta Georgia.

WSB reporter Jim Strickland now describes the police activity on the highways currently around Atlanta,as police search for this man.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM STRICKLAND, WSB REPORTER: Kyra, we can tell, you know, Sonny Perdue, the governor, just said moments ago that all the state's resources are devoted to this manhunt. We can certainly see evidence of that along I-75 northbound. What we thought were county cars were in fact the patrol -- the patrol personnel from the Department of Motor Vehicle Safety, the folks that run down HOV violators and so forth and check out the heavy trucks. They are parked on northbound 75 between the actual highway and the on-ramp that ramps on here near Windy Hill from 285 east -- westbound. So, those cars are there. There's four of them. There had been five at one point.

And, as we tilt our camera up, you can see that they have -- now, let me count them -- one, two, three, four, five, six state troopers now just about half a mile north, I would say, between I-75 northbound and southbound. Traffic not affected at this point, although it is clear that there is a -- a -- a significant staging of law enforcement personnel in this vicinity.

We have heard some scanner traffic that we're not in a position to confirm at this about whether a -- a vehicle that matched the suspect -- matched the description of the suspected vehicle was northbound in this vicinity, in fact, on I-75. Can't tell you exactly where that vehicle was spotted and if, in fact, they've cleared that vehicle or are still hanging out waiting here for it to pass by.

Luckily, we have to assume that anyone driving in a car does not have access to television reception, so that they can't hear what we're -- what we're saying about this location.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Once again, state and city police on an all-out alert, including a number of fugitive teams put together by the Atlanta Police Department, searching once again for Brian Nichols, a man believed to have shot three individuals, a superior court judge, a sheriff's deputy and a court reporter, today at the Fulton County Courthouse in Atlanta, Georgia, believed to be armed and dangerous.

Any information, contact the police hot line in Atlanta, Georgia.

O'BRIEN: Well, it's now been six hours since this all first transpired. And that, of course, makes it very difficult for the authorities as they conduct this search.

Just doing some quick math about a 60-mile-an-hour fleeing suspect, and you come to the conclusion that he could potentially be anywhere within a 350-mile radius of Atlanta at this point.

Joining us on the line to talk a little bit about how you look for a needle in the haystack like this is Woody Johnson, who is former director of the Georgia Bureau of Investigation.

Woody, good to have you back with us.

WOODY JOHNSON, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Thank you. But let me correct that. It was FBI here in Atlanta.

O'BRIEN: My apologies. I apologize. That's Federal Bureau of Investigation.

JOHNSON: Right.

O'BRIEN: Involved, of course, in the Olympic Park bombing investigation. My apologies to you, sir.

Let's -- let's just talk a little bit about, first of all, in this case, Atlanta Police, of course, is the lead agency in this. It could very easily cross into state lines. Would this become an FBI matter in that case?

JOHNSON: I expect that the FBI, because they already involved -- are already involved in fugitive task force, are involved in it already. And, normally, you assume that you're going to wait 24 hours to get involved in this. But in the case of a judge killing, I would think that -- that they're probably pretty heavily involved in it, along with other federal agencies.

O'BRIEN: All right. We don't know what his means would be and his ability would be to flee.

It was unclear -- and I didn't hear any reporter in that news conference ask if he was able to get somebody's wallet in the midst of all of the shooting there. But his ability to move around, I suspect, is greatly limited. He's not traveling around with credit cards and cash and that sort of thing.

JOHNSON: Yes. And I think that creates a little bit more of a fear the for the community. Now, I would expect that his first reaction was to try to go to friends or associates or family.

And I'm sure that law enforcement is thinking about that as an issue. But, as he gets more desperate, there is a risk that he's going to reach out to someone that's in his path and -- and cause more harm to people, as you describe it, particularly if he doesn't have money or a credit card or anything like that with him.

O'BRIEN: Well, there's one other thing to consider here, too. We're told at least a dozen shots were fired. We don't know how much ammunition he might or might not have, but clearly presumed -- has to be presumed extremely dangerous.

Give us a sense of -- sort of take us inside the command post here for a moment. What's going on? What are the check boxes that authorities are trying to check off right now as they do sort of a systematic search for somebody like this in this circumstance?

JOHNSON: Well, again, they're trying to determine and think through where he might go, who might assist him, family, friends, locations that he's comfortable with, and then -- and then spread out from that.

Obviously, they're going to get information out to every law enforcement jurisdiction in the state. And, as you described, he could have driven 300 miles, which could put him out of the state in Alabama or South Carolina. So, I'm sure they're getting information about him out to other law enforcement operations, hoping that somebody will spot that vehicle, which is -- which is the key right now.

He may have abandoned that at this point, but right now it's the best lead I suspect they have.

O'BRIEN: Well, yes. And we have not heard any additional reports of carjackings, which would, of course, be the logical thing if he was after another vehicle. Of course, there are other ways to get ahold of vehicles, other ways to hide.

Are you reasonably optimistic that it won't be very long before this suspect is apprehended one way or another?

JOHNSON: Well, you know, you can't tolerate what has transpired today in our system. And so, he is going to be the one that so much law enforcement will focus on. And the odds are extremely good that they're going to catch him and in a short period of time.

O'BRIEN: Woody Johnson, formerly with the Atlanta office of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, good to have you with us. Thank you for your insights.

Back with more in just a moment. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: As a prosecutor here in Atlanta, CNN's Nancy Grace spent an awful lot of time in Judge Rowland Barnes' courtroom, knows the man well, knew the man well, knows his daughter, and also had a close personal relationship with his court reporter.

She spoke to Wolf Blitzer just a few hours ago.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NANCY GRACE, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Wolf, I am en route to Atlanta right now. I am heartbroken.

I've been playing softball with Judge Barnes since 1987, when I was a rookie prosecutor. And his court reporter, Julie, had just been up visiting me, staying with me in New York this past couple of months. And I'm just -- I'm stunned.

Wolf, there were a million times we as prosecutors and judges walk into the courtroom going about our everyday business as public servants. And I am stunned. I am stunned about Judge Barnes' death and Julie's death, and the two deputy sheriffs trying to do their job.

Everybody keeps talking about how, maybe there was an accomplice. Listen, Wolf, anybody that's been in and out of that courthouse can figure out the lay of the courthouse. It is what it is. The man grabbed the gun and unloaded rather than go to jail on a rape charge. That's what happened.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Talk a little bit about Judge Barnes, Nancy. Give us some personal thoughts that are going through your mind right now.

GRACE: Wolf, I can't tell you how many times that I sat in the stands and cheered a softball game with Judge Barnes. He was a state court judge for many, many years, coming up in the ranks like all of us, as a trial lawyer.

And Wolf, when he made superior court judge, usually, you know, there are political hacks or appointees. This is a guy that everybody said, thank God somebody like Barnes finally made the bench. This makes it all worthwhile.

All I can say is Barnes was the kind of person that I was proud to practice in front of.

BLITZER: You have to ask yourself, how can these things happen? How can such a tragedy occur to such a good man who worked so hard to do -- to do right in the courtroom? It's just such a painful experience, but it does raise the question of security for judges, security for court personnel, not only in Atlanta, Nancy, but all around the country.

What needs to be done?

GRACE: Wolf, so many times I've sat in the courtroom and I've, you know, looked -- sitting there unarmed, of course. I was never armed in court.

The deputies would have their guns, and we would have 20, 30, sometimes 50 violent offenders. They were not all shackled, and they were there in the courtroom.

It is a risk that's being taken every day -- in every courtroom in this country. And Wolf, I just -- I just hate that it had to be Judge Barnes and his beautiful court reporter, Julie, that had to pay this horrible, horrible price.

And Wolf, the judge has a girl. He has a beautiful girl. And I'm just -- to have your father killed in this way as a public servant -- I mean, Wolf, this guy has tried so many cases.

He was one of the most decent lawyers I have ever known. And I'm stunned. I can hardly speak.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: You were just listening to Nancy Grace, of course, employee here at CNN, talking about Judge Rowland Barnes, a judge very well respected here in Atlanta and in this community, Nancy Grace knowing him very well and talking to our Wolf Blitzer just about the man that he was, both personally and professionally.

Another human story to tell you about, this shooting that took place at 9:00 a.m. this morning Eastern time at the Fulton County Courthouse here in Atlanta, Georgia. In addition to the three people that have been killed, there were a number of people injured. And we just got this picture in of AJC reporter Don O'Briant, works for "The Atlanta Journal-Constitution." And here's his story. He's a reporter for the AJC.

And he was coming out into the parking garage of the AJC. And on the Web site, they posted a story about how he explained to authorities what went down after a man pulled up behind his parked car and asked for directions to a shopping mall. This is how O'Briant recounts his story.

He said the man pulled a gun and said, give me your keys or I'll kill you. So, O'Briant, the reporter here, gave the shooter, the man believed to have come out of that courthouse after just killing three people, gave him his keys, but refused the man's order to get in the trunk of his green Honda Accord.

According to O'Briant, the suspect, Nichols, had told him to get into the trunk of his car as he was about to drive off. The reporter, incredibly brave man, said, no, he wasn't going to do it. He thought that maybe he was going to be killed and he wasn't going to get into that trunk, O'Briant said. So he turned, he says, and ran, and that's when he hit him in the head with his gun.

He fell down. He got up. He ran into a garage bin and then he got up again up and ran. According to a newspaper spokesperson, O'Briant is, of course, cooperating with authorities after telling the suspect, the man now on the loose after killing three people at the Fulton County Courthouse here in Atlanta Georgia, Don O'Briant, reporter for the AJC, lucky to be alive. He refused to get into the back -- or into trunk of his green Honda that the shooter took off in. Good thing that he didn't do that.

He's recovering now in the hospital after being pistol-whipped there from the suspect.

More LIVE FROM right after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: All right, just to bring you up to date, what is turning out to be a nationwide manhunt right now for Brian Nichols, 33 years old. We'll get his picture up on the screen for you there, 6'1'', 210 pounds, possibly driving a green Honda Accord with this license plate on it, 6584 YN, although police continually state it's possible there's another vehicle involved now.

This is a live picture of just the highways around Atlanta, as rush hour starts to begin here, and the signs of the times there right there. But if you consider the fact it's been more than six hours since this courthouse shooting in downtown Atlanta, which left three dead and one person seriously injured, six hours is an awful lot of travel time for that suspect.

And so authorities all over certainly the Southeast at this point and ultimately across the nation are on the lookout for this suspect, Brian Nichols. In his wake, the death of a highly respected superior court judge here in Atlanta, his court reporter and a deputy who gave chase to the suspect after those shootings occurred, all of this beginning about 9:00 this morning here local time. PHILLIPS: We're going to continue on with more breaking news coverage. Miles is signing off. Judy Woodruff is going to be joining us. We're going to continue breaking news coverage, as the manhunt continues for Brian Nichols.

Of course, if you have any information, you're asked to call the Atlanta Police Department.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com

Aired March 11, 2005 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON SEBASTIAN, N.J. INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY: So the grip of the gun, this blue plastic portion, has little tiny pressure transducers, little drum heads, that can pick up how hard I'm squeezing the gun while I'm pulling the trigger. So if you think of a weather map with isobars, the colored indications of how we have high and low pressure zones that move across the country to develop the weather, the same thing happens when we squeeze the gun -- we're creating zones of high and low pressure on the grip of the gun.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: And that is unique like a fingerprint would be, that each person has a different, distinct grip?

SEBASTIAN: This is what's so amazing is that it is both unique and it's reproducible, meaning that when we do the pull of the trigger as a reflexive action, we're getting something which we do the same way over and over and over again. So it's unique to me as it is unique to you and we do it in a way that can be trained once and measured repeatedly against that trained set.

O'BRIEN: OK and the real rub, the real tricky part in all of this is making it fast enough to make that, you know, tenth of a second decision to say, oh, this is the owner, I'm going to fire. And, yet, not so sensitive that it would allow someone else, someone who you wouldn't want to fire that gun, to be able to do the same?

SEBASTIAN: True of all biometrics, in fact. You want to be sure that you have enough variation to capture normal variations. And, yet, at the same time, that you don't close the window so tight that the authorized user is, at some instances, not recognized as appropriate. Either allowing someone who is not supposed to fire it or blocking an authorized user are two things that would render the technology unacceptable in the marketplace.

O'BRIEN: Now you're a few years away from bringing things to market. There are things that are currently out there. We've done some stories over the years. As a matter of fact, I did one way back in '94, '95 with sort of a wristband technology, which essentially, using radio transmitters, identifies the proximity to the transmitter. So in other words, if the gun gets separated from the officer who has that transmitter on, as long as the transmitter stays with the officer, it renders the gun harmless. Does that kind of technology work pretty well?

SEBASTIAN: Very well put. Well, that's still a technology under development. The federal government sponsored work and really popularized the term smart gun in the early '90s to prevent much of the situation that we saw today, a weapon taken away from a police officer in close combat and used against him. And, at that time, the best available technology was the proximity sensor approach, radio frequency, I.D. tags.

We knew them back then as the shoplifting tags on clothing in the mall and now we know I.D. tagging is perhaps the replacement for the bar code in the future. But the idea is that something that you wear, whether it's a wristband, a badge, a ring, contains some of the electronics that responds to the radio frequency from the gun. And when you are too far away, the gun realizes that it doesn't have that authentication signal and turns off.

O'BRIEN: All right, just quickly then, so just to wrap it up here. Isn't it high time we got some of these -- this technology on the market?

SEBASTIAN: It sure is. It sure is. Too often we've confused gun safety with gun control and it's mired the development of the technology. It's unfortunate that we need tragedies like this to bring the situation to light. Let's hope that we can make some good out of a very, bad situation.

O'BRIEN: Don Sebastian is with the New Jersey Institute of Technology in Newark. He is senior vice president of research and development. Thanks very much for your time. I appreciate it.

SEBASTIAN: Thank you for the time.

O'BRIEN: We are expecting a news conference. Matter of fact, there is a live signal there. Not far away. A reporter from one of our affiliates standing in front of that signal. But the mayor of Atlanta, the police chief of Atlanta, expected to brief us momentarily. We're going to bring that to you live as soon as it happens -- Kyra.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: And if you're just tuning in, once again, you're watching breaking news coverage at this hour. Just to remind you of what happened, if you are just tuning in, 9:00 a.m. this morning, at the Fulton County Courthouse here in Atlanta, Georgia, a defendant on trial for rape grabbed a gun from a deputy, opened fire, killing three people. These are the highlights. A judge, a court reporter, and a deputy were killed when that defendant grabbed the deputy's gun. That judge, a well-known superior court judge, Rowland Barnes, very well-respected in this community, was killed. Another deputy was wounded, not life threatening, we are told.

And right now, the search is underway for this man, Brian Nichols, believed to be 33 years old, African-American, possibly driving a green Honda with the following license plate. Of course, if you have any information about this car or about this man, Brian Nichols, you're asked to call the police department in Fulton County or, of course, the city of Atlanta. Right now, more than 30 Atlanta public schools are on lockdown and we're on the search with authorities to find Brian Nichols.

Quick break. More LIVE FROM right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Live picture from Atlanta City Hall there. We just got the two-minute warning. We're expecting a news conference on the search for the suspect, Brian Nichols, a man police believe opened fire inside this courtroom, killing three people, including a superior court judge, a sheriff's deputy, and also -- actually stepping up to the podium, it looks like Shirley Franklin, the mayor of Atlanta. Sure, it indeed -- it is. It is the mayor.

She's stepping up to the mike, going to brief reporters. Obviously, surrounded by her fire and police personnel. Let's listen in to what she has to say about this shooting that has now left three people dead inside this courthouse. She's on the steps of that courthouse here in Atlanta, Georgia. That's the Fulton County Courthouse, in case you're not familiar. Let's listen in.

MAYOR SHIRLEY FRANKLIN, ATLANTA, GEORGIA: ... everybody to gather at the same time and we come to express our condolences to the families of the victims. Our prayers are with the deputy, who is still recovering. We recognize that this is a very scary situation. We have witnessed in Atlanta today an act of violence in the criminal justice system that is certainly disconcerting, but we've come to offer our condolences to the families, to announce what we are doing and Deputy Chief Dreher is going to fill you in on the investigation, but it is our intent to continue this search and to bring the resources to bear so that we can apprehend the perpetrator.

Again, I want to say how sad it is for us that the loss of life, the families who are directly affected and those who were in the courtroom and in the building and how terrified they must have been under these circumstances. Deputy Chief Dreher is standing to my right, and Chief Rubin, who was among those who responded immediately, is to my left. But we're going to start with Deputy Chief Dreher, and then take your questions.

ALAN DREHER, DEPUTY CHIEF, ATLANTA POLICE DEPT.: Thank you, Mayor. Good afternoon.

I'd like to take a few minutes to give you some preliminary findings of our investigation so far. I'm just keeping in mind we're still interviewing witnesses and we're still processing the crime scene.

Early this morning, shortly after court was convening, at Fulton County Superior Court, the suspect was on his way to the courtroom. It appears that he was -- he overwhelmed a deputy sheriff on his way to court and it appears that he took possession of her handgun. The deputy sheriff was injured as a result of that struggle. The suspect made his way into the courtroom and held all of the persons inside at bay with a handgun. He then shot and killed the judge, shot and killed the court stenographer, and made his escape from the courtroom.

He managed to get outside of the court building where he encountered another deputy sheriff and that encounter resulted in the suspect shooting and killing the deputy sheriff. The suspect made good his escape from the general area. It appears that he committed several other crimes as he was making good his escape.

We're currently manning an emergency command post. I've got a tip line for you. Let me give that to you now. That number is 404- 730-7983 or 84. We've got units working around the clock and we're going to continue to work around the clock to make sure that we bring the suspect to justice. We're working closely and in conjunction with federal, state, and local agencies. We've identified several locations of interest to us. We've formed fugitive teams. We received help from the GBI, Fulton County, the FBI, ATF, other federal agencies, and we're working as a team, working very diligently to bring the suspect to justice.

FRANKLIN: Do you have questions?

QUESTION: Chief, was the deputy, was the deputy alone? Was she the only law enforcement person with the suspect at the time that he overpowered her?

DREHER: Well, we're still interviewing witnesses. We're trying to obtain a statement from her. She's been sedated but it appears that is probably the case.

QUESTION: Where in the courthouse did this occur?

QUESTION: Was he out on bond? Was he in custody at the time this all happened?

DREHER: I believe he was in custody. The deputy sheriff was bringing him to the courtroom.

QUESTION: He was making his way from the detention area to the courtroom?

DREHER: That's my understanding.

QUESTION: Where in the courthouse did this happen, Chief?

DREHER: That's a question for the sheriff to answer. I'm not sure.

QUESTION: Where in the courthouse did this happen? Did this happen in a corridor, initially, the overpowering of the deputy?

DREHER: I believe it happened somewhere between the detention facility and the courtroom itself.

QUESTION: Chief, can you give us any indication of the weapon itself and what it takes to recoup the weapon? (OFF-MIKE)

DREHER: Our holsters are certainly very secure and -- I can't speak to which holsters the deputy sheriffs wear. As you know, the deputy sheriffs are in charge of the security of the jail and they're run by Fulton County so you'll have to ask the sheriff that.

QUESTION: Apparently, there was a prior incident on Wednesday where a shank was found in his shoe. What extra precautions taken after that, because, obviously, there must have been a concern he might do something bad?

DREHER: That is a question that -- the sheriff's department runs security at the courthouse. You'll have to ask the sheriff.

QUESTION: Was the deputy shot?

DREHER: Pardon me?

QUESTION: The deputy with the weapon, was she shot?

DREHER: We don't believe so at this time.

QUESTION: Was he handcuffed at the time of the incident where he got the gun away from the deputy?

DREHER: We believe that the two were alone and I can't answer that question. We're trying to interview the deputy sheriff and she is sedated so that answer will have to be forth coming.

QUESTION: Shortly after it happened, downtown was abuzz with activity. We stopped at a parking garage where at least one Isuzu car was carjacked. Can you give us a timeline of this thing went down, how he got away, or where you think he may have gone?

DREHER: Well, all I can tell you right now is we're still looking -- the last known vehicle is a 1997 Honda Accord. Georgia tags 6584 Y, Yankee, N, Nancy. We're still piecing together all the witness statements, and putting together all the crimes he may have committed to make good his escape.

QUESTION: The Honda Accord, was that the reporter's vehicle, or someone else's vehicle...?

DREHER: It's my understanding that was the vehicle that was taken at 250 Spring Street.

QUESTION: How long was he alone with the deputy?

DREHER: I can't answer that. You'll have to ask the sheriff's department. When they come up for trial, they change out of their prison attire and they put on a suit. They're allowed to wear suit coats.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

DREHER: We're still piecing that together with the information from the witnesses as we're taking statements.

QUESTION: In plain clothes?

DREHER: Yes.

QUESTION: Chief, if it turns out that the deputy was alone, which is suspect, I'm not asking you to armchair quarterback, but based on your police experience, should that have happened? DREHER: You know, the sheriff would be better able to answer that than I am. We have our procedures at the police department. The sheriff has his procedures, so it wouldn't be fair to make an assessment of that right now.

QUESTION: What kind of gun was it that he took, that he may still be carrying? Some type of hand gun?

DREHER: I'm not certain. Some sort of semiautomatic, so we're still trying to assess with whether it was actually the deputy's weapon that was taken.

QUESTION: How many other people were in the courtroom at the time?

DREHER: I don't have an exact figure, but suffice to say it was probably well over a dozen.

QUESTION: Can you give us an indication, sir, of this man's emotional state and his danger to this community?

DREHER: I certainly wouldn't be able to really answer about his emotional state. But suffice it so say that we're not going to rest until we have him in custody. We all of the investigative arms of law enforcement at our disposal and we're going to conjunction with each other. We have the latest investigative tools to make sure that we bring him to justice swiftly.

QUESTION: I'm sorry, you said over a dozen shots were fired?

DREHER: No, they asked how many were in the courtroom.

QUESTION: Chief, when was the last confirmed sighting of the suspect?

DREHER: We're receiving a lot of tips, and we're following up on a lot of leads. We encourage anyone with any information to call the hotline number I just gave you. So we're continually following leads right now.

QUESTION: Was the gun found or is he still armed? Do you know?

DREHER: One weapon was located at the scene. We're checking serial numbers to see if it belonged to the deputy or whether it didn't, so can't say. We just are going to assume that he's armed and dangerous.

QUESTION: Chief, was this deputy knocked unconscious before her gun was taken or did it happen all simultaneously?

DREHER: We are a going to have to wait until we interview her to get that information.

QUESTION: Chief, can you tell us about the injuries, and the judge, and the court stenographer suffered -- did they get one bullet wound each or more? Do you know how many shots were fired in the courtroom?

DREHER: Well, yes...

QUESTION: And where was the gun recovered?

DREHER: One weapon was recovered outside the courthouse. We'll wait for the further findings from the -- to determine exactly how many times bullets were struck.

QUESTION: Was there...

QUESTION: ...where they were struck?

DREHER: Once we get all of the information, we'll give that to you.

QUESTION: Chief, was there a standoff inside the courtroom for a time? Was there a hostage situation per se?

DREHER: You know, we're still interviewing several witnesses that were in the courtroom, but it appears that he held them at bay for some -- for a short period of time until he actually...

QUESTION: Did anyone know this was going on at the time outside of that courtroom?

DREHER: Not to my knowledge.

QUESTION: Was this -- (OFF-MIKE) Do you know why he did this? Was this just fear of being convicted?

DREHER: We can't get inside his head, but we're still interviewing people and getting all of the statements from all of the persons that were a witness to the incident in the courtroom, so once we have all of that information, we can provide that to you.

QUESTION: Chief, do you know if there was-- was going on from a civil case to a criminal case, and that is why there were less people in that courtroom?

DREHER: I don't have that information, but we'll get that for you. It's my understanding it was a criminal trial. I think it was a retrial.

QUESTION: The deputy whose gun was taken, she was the only deputy in the immediate area?

DREHER: We'll have to wait to interview her. She's sedated. Once we get that information, we'll be able to speak to that.

QUESTION: No other deputies have came forward to suggest they were in the vicinity?

DREHER: Not that I'm aware of.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) DREHER: We're not going to release any names until all of the next of kin have been notified. We're in the process of doing that, so we'll release those when they've been notified.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) Can you tell us how many cars you know that he took and where they were?

DREHER: All I can tell you right now is we're looking for that green Honda Accord and anybody with information -- from Spring Street -- that's the last known vehicle we believe he was in.

QUESTION: Do you think he was -- do you think it was about three or four? Can you give me a ballpark figure?

DREHER: We're still putting all that information together.

QUESTION: Do you know overall how many shots he fired? The suspect.

DREHER: No, not yet. We'll know more. We found several casings and we're still in the process of--

QUESTION: Rough ballpark? six, 12?

DREHER: Several.

QUESTION: Do you know the caliber of the weapon?

DREHER: We'll have to wait until we get the examination done.

QUESTION: Were any of the victims...

QUESTION: (OFF MIKE) around 285 and Rosle (ph) road. What is the status of the search right now?

DREHER: We're in the process of monitoring numerous locations.

QUESTION: What should we report to the folks about the status of this individual, this subject? What can we say about him?

DREHER: What I would say is that we've got all the latest investigative tools at our disposal, the latest technology, we've got the help from all of our law enforcement partners, federal, state, and local. And I believe we're going to bring this to some swift justice and I would tell them if this was an incident that occurred in the courthouse, we've got a lot of activities going on this weekend and people are going to be concerned, but I would say that it was pretty much confined to the courthouse. We had some incidents as he fled the area, but we're going to bring him to justice and we're working around the clock and we're going to be relentless.

QUESTION: Chief, is there reason to...

QUESTION: Is there any procedure for one deputy to support a prisoner from a detention center to the courthouse?

DREHER: You'll have to ask the sheriff about that.

QUESTION: Was this an Atlanta P.D. case originally? The original arrest?

DREHER: I believe it was a North Fulton County case.

QUESTION: Chief, any reason to believe he may have gone past the borders of Georgia?

DREHER: You know, that's possible. But we have -- we have our federal partners, have resources all around the country. They've passed the information along. They know exactly what we're looking for. And so we're working as a team. The federal agencies span -- you know, you can't say one state, two states. Every one's been notified.

QUESTION: Were any of those who were killed able to make statements of any kind before they passed away?

DREHER: Not to my knowledge.

APD is the lead agency on the homicide investigation.

QUESTION: Can tell us a little bit more about the rape case, the trial, that is. In other words, what he was accused of doing?

DREHER: I don't have the background on that rape case at this time.

Pardon me?

QUESTION: Prior (OFF MIKE)?

DREHER: I'm not aware of his history right now.

QUESTION: Chief, can you clarify what the deputy (OFF MIKE) when he with him alone? (OFF MIKE).

DREHER: She does have some injuries. It does not appear that it's a gunshot wound at this time. It may have come from some other method.

QUESTION: Chief, all of the activities taking place inside the courtroom? Did he go into the chambers at any point during this?

DREHER: He traversed from the detention area into the courtroom and the deputy that was shot and killed was outside of the courthouse.

QUESTION: Is there a detention area? Is there a holding cell like there is in the new part of the courthouse?

DREHER: I believe so.

(OFF MIKE QUESTION)

DREHER: Yes. That's my understanding. QUESTION: So he was being escorted to the courtroom?

DREHER: Yes.

QUESTION: (OFF MIKE) Detention room to the courthouse door?

DREHER: You'll have to ask the sheriff that. I'm not sure of those dimensions.

QUESTION: Was he under custody or had he bonded out at that public case?

DREHER: I believe in custody at the time.

QUESTION: So then you're saying he came out of the detention center when he started shooting and he got his gun inside the detention center, the detention holding facility?

DREHER: As soon as we're able to interview the deputy sheriff, then we'll get that information.

QUESTION: So we're not sure if this took place, the overpowering the deputy, in a hallway, in a jury room, in a courtroom or exactly where at this point?

DREHER: Not at this particular point in time, we're not aware.

QUESTION: Was the jury in the courtroom?

DREHER: I'm not aware of that information. I believe the court was just beginning to convene. I do not believe the aviazor (ph) were in yet.

QUESTION: And what can you say about what he was wearing? Was he or was he not in overalls and (OFF MIKE)?

DREHER: I do not believe he was in his overalls. I believe he changed into his suit.

QUESTION: How much harder does that make him to find?

DREHER: We know what kind of car we're looking for. We have his photographs. It will make it -- obviously, if he was wearing jail clothes, it would make it a little bit easier, but we know what he looks like and we've got the word out. We want to make sure that anybody that knows him or even forward any addresses they think he may go to us.

QUESTION: To use the old-fashioned term, is there a dragnet, a cordon, thrown up on highways around metro Atlanta?

DREHER: We don't have a dragnet cordoned off now. We have several locations that we're interested in and we're pursuing.

QUESTION: Chief, was anybody able to return fire at all?

DREHER: It didn't appear to be so, but we still have some more investigation to do on that.

QUESTION: Were any of the witnesses able to give you any statements as to what he may have said possibly before he fired those shots in the courtroom?

DREHER: We're not going to divulge any witness statements at this time.

QUESTION: Chief, are you in contact with the Fort Lauderdale or the Broward County authorities? I understand he has a previous address that they've been checking into.

DREHER: We have several previous addresses we're checking into, several locations that we have interest in and we're pursuing them all.

QUESTION: The victims are the judge, the court clerk and the deputy that was shot outside? Is the fourth victim the deputy that was overcome?

DREHER: Yes.

QUESTION: And what can you say about efforts to stop or deflect? Were there any gun shots pointed at him?

DREHER: Not to my knowledge, no.

QUESTION: Mayor Franklin, is the city of Atlanta going to offer any kind of special assistance or reward or anything to bring this further?

FRANKLIN: We certainly have already started. The chief has called in the fugitive squads, has also called in the homicide squads. We have a fully staffed effort. We will continue to advise you and ask you to advise the public as those efforts continue. We appreciate, however, that you have helped us by using his photograph. And we're asking everyone who has a tip to call in the hotline number so that we can swiftly apprehend this suspect.

Atlanta is the kind of city, it is a caring city, and it's important for us to remember the families as we are continuing the police investigation. It is very important that we all keep them in our prayers. It is very easy for us to become engrossed in the details of the investigation, but I would hope that as you are making your reports, you will also send out prayers and blessings for the families of those who are victimized today.

QUESTION: Chief Rubin how many of the victims...

FRANKLIN: I'm not finished, Martin. Thanks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, I'm sorry. Excuse me.

FRANKLIN: In addition, I would say that we are hosting some major events. We have our police force and help from state and federal agencies to be sure that the city is safe. We would urge everyone to pay attention to what's going on around them. But, at the same time, it is our intention to have a city that is safe throughout the other days coming ahead. And now Chief Rubin will come to answer your questions.

QUESTION: Thank you very much. Chief Rubin -- thank you, Mayor. Chief, how many of the victims were alive when rescue authorities arrived on the scene?

CHIEF DENNIS RUBIN, ATLANTA FIRE DEPARTMENT: We had the opportunity to try to assist two folks in the process. Throughout the morning, we worked very closely with the Atlanta Police Department, of course, the Fulton County sheriff's department. Grady ambulance was a major player as well. And not only did they treat those two individuals and saw to their expedient transportation to the trauma units, there were also four other persons that had a significant psychological reaction that we assisted, as well as one person had shortness of breath.

QUESTION: The deputy who was shot outside the courthouse, whomever is most appropriate to ask, do you believe that that deputy knew he was confronting the suspect? Did he give his life in an effort to stop him?

DREHER: It's my information that the deputy was pursuing the subject. So I believe he thought his life may be in peril.

QUESTION: Chief, did you give two phone numbers?

DREHER: Yes, actually. The number I gave 404-730-7983 or 7984.

QUESTION: Chief, you said (OFF MIKE).

RUBIN: We did assist two people that were in a very critical condition. They were transported to Grady, the trauma center. One expired. I think the chief described that. And the other one is in critical condition currently. The other folks -- specifically, I'm not sure. The other folks were treated and released on the scene and, in fact, I think perhaps the city psychological services doctor may very well be with some of the folks that experienced some psychological problems.

QUESTION: Were the two people taken to the hospital?

(OFF MIKE QUESTION)

RUBIN: We're probably not at a point to give out that specific information yet.

QUESTION: Were the two people who were killed in the courtroom, were they transported to the hospital or just killed in the courtroom?

DREHER: To my knowledge, they remained...

RUBIN: They were obvious fatalities, unfortunately, and were not transported. What happened next, essentially, the police department provided protective services while the fire department swept floor to floor from the top of the building to the bottom of the building. That's when we discovered the folks -- one person had chest pains, shortness of breath. Four other folks that happened to witness it, what a horrible event, they had psychological reactions. But the extent of the victims that the fire department provided service for today were too critical and then five assisted, pretty minor.

QUESTION: Chief Dreher, one point of clarification. You talked about the judge, the court stenographer and a deputy outside who have died. And you talked about the deputy, the female deputy whose gun was taken being injured. There's a fifth person who is in critical condition. What is that person's condition and how (OFF-MIKE) that person (OFF-MIKE)

ALAN DREHER, ATLANTA DEPUTY POLICE CHIEF: Female deputy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is no fifth person.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: The person in critical condition is the (OFF-MIKE)

(CROSSTALK)

DREHER: Is the female deputy that was overpowered, right. So, there's four.

QUESTION: Chief, we're trying to clarify. Just what -- is there an issue as to whether or not there is an appropriate holding cell near Judge Barnes' courtroom or near the area where this took place? Was -- is it your understanding that the suspect was in some kind of jury room or other facility besides a holding cell?

DREHER: I'm not aware of that information. That's a question you need to ask the sheriff.

Thank you.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) escorts him to the courtroom, deputy A, is wounded when he takes the gun.

(CROSSTALK)

DREHER: She -- yes, was injured at some point in time during that struggle.

QUESTION: She was not shot?

DREHER: It's my information at this point that she was not shot.

QUESTION: He goes into the courtroom and he shoots two victims there. They both die?

DREHER: Yes.

QUESTION: He comes out and then the third fatal victim is outside the courthouse. DREHER: Yes. The confrontation came outside the courthouse.

QUESTION: When did he begin pursuing him?

DREHER: We're in the process of getting statements now still. We won't be able to answer that.

QUESTION: Were you able to rush everybody out of the courthouse immediately or was there a delay?

DREHER: It was a pretty swift evacuation.

QUESTION: Everybody?

DREHER: Or got to safety.

QUESTION: Were any of the other judges placed in protective -- were they protected by police or anything? (OFF-MIKE)

DREHER: I'm not aware that any of the judges are in protective custody at this point.

QUESTION: Chief, what is the status of the courthouse now? Is it business as usual as can be or a high state of alert?

DREHER: The courthouse is a crime scene now. And it's going to be quite some time until we finish processing that scene. It's a complex scene. And we're going to take our time. We have the assistance of the GBI and our federal partners. So, we're going to make sure that we take our time and do a thorough job to make sure we gather every bit of evidence that's there.

QUESTION: Is the court going to be closed on Monday?

DREHER: I would imagine.

QUESTION: Can you say anything about this man's intent when he entered the courtroom? Was he on a kind of shooting spree or could you say with any guess, and make an educated guess as to whether he had specific targets?

DREHER: I wouldn't be able to guess what was in his mind. But I can say that we're getting statements from all those persons that were in the courtroom at the time and what they heard and what they saw and then we'll take that information and then we can go forward from there.

QUESTION: Is there an indication Judge Barnes was specifically targeted, that this was not a random act by this shooter?

DREHER: I mean, obviously, there's some linkage, since he was going to trial in front of the judge. But what that linkage is, you know, I can't say with certainty.

QUESTION: Chief, do you know if he has changed at all since that picture was taken? Is his hair about the same length still, do you know?

DREHER: I believe it's a recent photograph. And I believe it was taken at the Fulton County jail. But I'm not certain exactly how old it is.

QUESTION: Is there any security videotapes of anything that happened (OFF-MIKE)

DREHER: We're still exploring that now. They have -- they have some types of monitors there. The sheriff will better be able to answer exactly what their system entails. But we're certainly interested. We know it's there. And if there's any video at all, we'll make sure that we get that.

QUESTION: Chief, did he say anything of value inside the courtroom before he did what he did that other people have been able to tell you about?

DREHER: Yes. We're in the process of interviewing witnesses. And when we get all that information, that's a part of the case. But, right now, there's nothing that I can give you to indicate what he uttered in the courtroom.

QUESTION: Chief, can you tell us where Chief Pennington is at this time? Is he assisting with the investigation?

DREHER: Yes. Chief Pennington was out of town today. He's on the way back and he'll be here in an hour or two. So, he's -- I've kept him fully apprised from 9:00 this morning. We have talked about every 15, 20 minutes. So he's fully up to speed with the investigation. And we've been in contact all day long.

QUESTION: Chief, if the suspects...

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: ... the gun, any handcuffs or mace or any other things from the deputy or anyone else in the courtroom...

(CROSSTALK)

DREHER: We're still -- we're still in the process of getting those witness statements and getting that information.

QUESTION: If the suspect is watching this, what is the best way for him to surrender? What is the way that you would urge him to come in?

DREHER: I would urge him to call the tip line that we just gave out or call 911. They can call the homicide office. There's any number, but the tip line would probably be the best. And if he's not comfortable with any of that, he can call my office or Chief Pennington's office and we'll arrange for a safe surrender.

QUESTION: Do you have something scheduled for later, another briefing? DREHER: There probably won't be anything substantial to add later on.

QUESTION: Unless, of course, he's caught.

DREHER: Unless, of course, he's caught, unless, of course, we have some additional information that we would like to have you put out to the public to assist us in the investigation. So, if that were to occur, we'll certainly call you right away and assemble again.

QUESTION: Thank you very much for this briefing.

DREHER: OK.

QUESTION: Thank you.

DREHER: Thank you very much.

PHILLIPS: Been listening to a live news conference there on the steps of the Fulton County Courthouse here in Atlanta, Georgia, where that shooting took place at 9:00 Eastern this morning.

If you're just tuning in, you're watching breaking news coverage here out of our Atlanta headquarters. What we know at this point, that the police -- or the deputy chief there of Atlanta Police, Alan Dreher, did confirm -- things were a bit sketchy at first.

And, actually, Miles, you had received this information earlier on from a judge inside the courthouse. And it looks like it's pretty much matching up with what the deputy chief said. And that is, Brian Nichols, who was on trial for rape, was headed to the courtroom to sit before Judge Rowland Barnes. He was with a female deputy. He at some point knocked her out, took her gun, came in the courtroom, shot the judge dead, shot the court reporter dead.

And then, while he was fleeing, another sheriff's deputy was coming after him and he was shot and killed by this suspect on the outside steps of the courthouse.

Is that what we have?

O'BRIEN: Yes.

PHILLIPS: Is that what you're following so far?

O'BRIEN: And this paints a little different picture than what we have been telling folks pretty much all day, that it sort of happened instantaneously inside a courtroom.

As a matter of fact, my source has told me that the initial overpowering occurred in the elevator inside the new tower of that Fulton County Superior courthouse, which is adjacent to the older building, where Judge Barnes' courtroom was.

He -- the suspect was alone in that elevator, apparently, with this female deputy and probably was cuffed in some way. But it is fairly customary to handcuff prisoners in these cases in front of their -- not behind their back, but in front, so that they can be led along on a chain as multiple suspects are brought into the facility to face trial and hearing and so forth.

So, what that raises is several questions. First of all, why was that single solitary female deputy alone with this person who clearly outweighed her, had tremendous strength at 6'1'', 210 pounds? Secondly, this suspect was able to, apparently, go the distance from wherever that elevator well is, all the way across that new tower, in across a catwalk into that old building, which I'm told is a less secure facility in general.

And they had been encouraging Judge Barnes over the years to move into the more secure new facility. But, having said all that, apparently, the overpowering occurred in the new facility, nevertheless, made his way to that courtroom and I am told held other people at bay in that courtroom, perhaps even getting ahold of twist ties or handcuffs to hold them at bay, and then calmly, coolly, I'm told by witnesses on the scene there, fired two shots, one fatal shot to the judge and one fatal shot to the court reporter, and then made his way out.

Finally, at a subsequent time, down on the sidewalk, apparently pursued by another deputy who apparently gave chase -- probably, I can presume shots were exchanged, and that deputy also fell. So, that paints a much different picture and raises in my mind several more questions about security issues inside that courthouse.

PHILLIPS: And it's raised quite a debate now about security in that courthouse. But now the deputy chief has come forward. He said he has put together several fugitive teams.

They're going to work 24/7 to find this man, Brian Nichols, that they believe is armed and dangerous, somewhere out there on the road. If you, anyone out there in the public sees his picture or this license plate, Georgia license plate, he was last seen in a green Honda Accord, 6584 YN. Once again, here's his picture, Brian Nichols, the man police believe shot and killed three innocent people, a superior court judge, a sheriff's deputy, and also a court reporter.

The female that he overpowered and took the gun from, we're told right now is sedated and is not able to give any further information at this point. But we're going to follow the hunt and the search for Brian Nichols.

Meanwhile, our affiliates have been covering this story, every affiliate here in Atlanta Georgia.

WSB reporter Jim Strickland now describes the police activity on the highways currently around Atlanta,as police search for this man.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM STRICKLAND, WSB REPORTER: Kyra, we can tell, you know, Sonny Perdue, the governor, just said moments ago that all the state's resources are devoted to this manhunt. We can certainly see evidence of that along I-75 northbound. What we thought were county cars were in fact the patrol -- the patrol personnel from the Department of Motor Vehicle Safety, the folks that run down HOV violators and so forth and check out the heavy trucks. They are parked on northbound 75 between the actual highway and the on-ramp that ramps on here near Windy Hill from 285 east -- westbound. So, those cars are there. There's four of them. There had been five at one point.

And, as we tilt our camera up, you can see that they have -- now, let me count them -- one, two, three, four, five, six state troopers now just about half a mile north, I would say, between I-75 northbound and southbound. Traffic not affected at this point, although it is clear that there is a -- a -- a significant staging of law enforcement personnel in this vicinity.

We have heard some scanner traffic that we're not in a position to confirm at this about whether a -- a vehicle that matched the suspect -- matched the description of the suspected vehicle was northbound in this vicinity, in fact, on I-75. Can't tell you exactly where that vehicle was spotted and if, in fact, they've cleared that vehicle or are still hanging out waiting here for it to pass by.

Luckily, we have to assume that anyone driving in a car does not have access to television reception, so that they can't hear what we're -- what we're saying about this location.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Once again, state and city police on an all-out alert, including a number of fugitive teams put together by the Atlanta Police Department, searching once again for Brian Nichols, a man believed to have shot three individuals, a superior court judge, a sheriff's deputy and a court reporter, today at the Fulton County Courthouse in Atlanta, Georgia, believed to be armed and dangerous.

Any information, contact the police hot line in Atlanta, Georgia.

O'BRIEN: Well, it's now been six hours since this all first transpired. And that, of course, makes it very difficult for the authorities as they conduct this search.

Just doing some quick math about a 60-mile-an-hour fleeing suspect, and you come to the conclusion that he could potentially be anywhere within a 350-mile radius of Atlanta at this point.

Joining us on the line to talk a little bit about how you look for a needle in the haystack like this is Woody Johnson, who is former director of the Georgia Bureau of Investigation.

Woody, good to have you back with us.

WOODY JOHNSON, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Thank you. But let me correct that. It was FBI here in Atlanta.

O'BRIEN: My apologies. I apologize. That's Federal Bureau of Investigation.

JOHNSON: Right.

O'BRIEN: Involved, of course, in the Olympic Park bombing investigation. My apologies to you, sir.

Let's -- let's just talk a little bit about, first of all, in this case, Atlanta Police, of course, is the lead agency in this. It could very easily cross into state lines. Would this become an FBI matter in that case?

JOHNSON: I expect that the FBI, because they already involved -- are already involved in fugitive task force, are involved in it already. And, normally, you assume that you're going to wait 24 hours to get involved in this. But in the case of a judge killing, I would think that -- that they're probably pretty heavily involved in it, along with other federal agencies.

O'BRIEN: All right. We don't know what his means would be and his ability would be to flee.

It was unclear -- and I didn't hear any reporter in that news conference ask if he was able to get somebody's wallet in the midst of all of the shooting there. But his ability to move around, I suspect, is greatly limited. He's not traveling around with credit cards and cash and that sort of thing.

JOHNSON: Yes. And I think that creates a little bit more of a fear the for the community. Now, I would expect that his first reaction was to try to go to friends or associates or family.

And I'm sure that law enforcement is thinking about that as an issue. But, as he gets more desperate, there is a risk that he's going to reach out to someone that's in his path and -- and cause more harm to people, as you describe it, particularly if he doesn't have money or a credit card or anything like that with him.

O'BRIEN: Well, there's one other thing to consider here, too. We're told at least a dozen shots were fired. We don't know how much ammunition he might or might not have, but clearly presumed -- has to be presumed extremely dangerous.

Give us a sense of -- sort of take us inside the command post here for a moment. What's going on? What are the check boxes that authorities are trying to check off right now as they do sort of a systematic search for somebody like this in this circumstance?

JOHNSON: Well, again, they're trying to determine and think through where he might go, who might assist him, family, friends, locations that he's comfortable with, and then -- and then spread out from that.

Obviously, they're going to get information out to every law enforcement jurisdiction in the state. And, as you described, he could have driven 300 miles, which could put him out of the state in Alabama or South Carolina. So, I'm sure they're getting information about him out to other law enforcement operations, hoping that somebody will spot that vehicle, which is -- which is the key right now.

He may have abandoned that at this point, but right now it's the best lead I suspect they have.

O'BRIEN: Well, yes. And we have not heard any additional reports of carjackings, which would, of course, be the logical thing if he was after another vehicle. Of course, there are other ways to get ahold of vehicles, other ways to hide.

Are you reasonably optimistic that it won't be very long before this suspect is apprehended one way or another?

JOHNSON: Well, you know, you can't tolerate what has transpired today in our system. And so, he is going to be the one that so much law enforcement will focus on. And the odds are extremely good that they're going to catch him and in a short period of time.

O'BRIEN: Woody Johnson, formerly with the Atlanta office of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, good to have you with us. Thank you for your insights.

Back with more in just a moment. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: As a prosecutor here in Atlanta, CNN's Nancy Grace spent an awful lot of time in Judge Rowland Barnes' courtroom, knows the man well, knew the man well, knows his daughter, and also had a close personal relationship with his court reporter.

She spoke to Wolf Blitzer just a few hours ago.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NANCY GRACE, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Wolf, I am en route to Atlanta right now. I am heartbroken.

I've been playing softball with Judge Barnes since 1987, when I was a rookie prosecutor. And his court reporter, Julie, had just been up visiting me, staying with me in New York this past couple of months. And I'm just -- I'm stunned.

Wolf, there were a million times we as prosecutors and judges walk into the courtroom going about our everyday business as public servants. And I am stunned. I am stunned about Judge Barnes' death and Julie's death, and the two deputy sheriffs trying to do their job.

Everybody keeps talking about how, maybe there was an accomplice. Listen, Wolf, anybody that's been in and out of that courthouse can figure out the lay of the courthouse. It is what it is. The man grabbed the gun and unloaded rather than go to jail on a rape charge. That's what happened.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Talk a little bit about Judge Barnes, Nancy. Give us some personal thoughts that are going through your mind right now.

GRACE: Wolf, I can't tell you how many times that I sat in the stands and cheered a softball game with Judge Barnes. He was a state court judge for many, many years, coming up in the ranks like all of us, as a trial lawyer.

And Wolf, when he made superior court judge, usually, you know, there are political hacks or appointees. This is a guy that everybody said, thank God somebody like Barnes finally made the bench. This makes it all worthwhile.

All I can say is Barnes was the kind of person that I was proud to practice in front of.

BLITZER: You have to ask yourself, how can these things happen? How can such a tragedy occur to such a good man who worked so hard to do -- to do right in the courtroom? It's just such a painful experience, but it does raise the question of security for judges, security for court personnel, not only in Atlanta, Nancy, but all around the country.

What needs to be done?

GRACE: Wolf, so many times I've sat in the courtroom and I've, you know, looked -- sitting there unarmed, of course. I was never armed in court.

The deputies would have their guns, and we would have 20, 30, sometimes 50 violent offenders. They were not all shackled, and they were there in the courtroom.

It is a risk that's being taken every day -- in every courtroom in this country. And Wolf, I just -- I just hate that it had to be Judge Barnes and his beautiful court reporter, Julie, that had to pay this horrible, horrible price.

And Wolf, the judge has a girl. He has a beautiful girl. And I'm just -- to have your father killed in this way as a public servant -- I mean, Wolf, this guy has tried so many cases.

He was one of the most decent lawyers I have ever known. And I'm stunned. I can hardly speak.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: You were just listening to Nancy Grace, of course, employee here at CNN, talking about Judge Rowland Barnes, a judge very well respected here in Atlanta and in this community, Nancy Grace knowing him very well and talking to our Wolf Blitzer just about the man that he was, both personally and professionally.

Another human story to tell you about, this shooting that took place at 9:00 a.m. this morning Eastern time at the Fulton County Courthouse here in Atlanta, Georgia. In addition to the three people that have been killed, there were a number of people injured. And we just got this picture in of AJC reporter Don O'Briant, works for "The Atlanta Journal-Constitution." And here's his story. He's a reporter for the AJC.

And he was coming out into the parking garage of the AJC. And on the Web site, they posted a story about how he explained to authorities what went down after a man pulled up behind his parked car and asked for directions to a shopping mall. This is how O'Briant recounts his story.

He said the man pulled a gun and said, give me your keys or I'll kill you. So, O'Briant, the reporter here, gave the shooter, the man believed to have come out of that courthouse after just killing three people, gave him his keys, but refused the man's order to get in the trunk of his green Honda Accord.

According to O'Briant, the suspect, Nichols, had told him to get into the trunk of his car as he was about to drive off. The reporter, incredibly brave man, said, no, he wasn't going to do it. He thought that maybe he was going to be killed and he wasn't going to get into that trunk, O'Briant said. So he turned, he says, and ran, and that's when he hit him in the head with his gun.

He fell down. He got up. He ran into a garage bin and then he got up again up and ran. According to a newspaper spokesperson, O'Briant is, of course, cooperating with authorities after telling the suspect, the man now on the loose after killing three people at the Fulton County Courthouse here in Atlanta Georgia, Don O'Briant, reporter for the AJC, lucky to be alive. He refused to get into the back -- or into trunk of his green Honda that the shooter took off in. Good thing that he didn't do that.

He's recovering now in the hospital after being pistol-whipped there from the suspect.

More LIVE FROM right after a quick break.

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O'BRIEN: All right, just to bring you up to date, what is turning out to be a nationwide manhunt right now for Brian Nichols, 33 years old. We'll get his picture up on the screen for you there, 6'1'', 210 pounds, possibly driving a green Honda Accord with this license plate on it, 6584 YN, although police continually state it's possible there's another vehicle involved now.

This is a live picture of just the highways around Atlanta, as rush hour starts to begin here, and the signs of the times there right there. But if you consider the fact it's been more than six hours since this courthouse shooting in downtown Atlanta, which left three dead and one person seriously injured, six hours is an awful lot of travel time for that suspect.

And so authorities all over certainly the Southeast at this point and ultimately across the nation are on the lookout for this suspect, Brian Nichols. In his wake, the death of a highly respected superior court judge here in Atlanta, his court reporter and a deputy who gave chase to the suspect after those shootings occurred, all of this beginning about 9:00 this morning here local time. PHILLIPS: We're going to continue on with more breaking news coverage. Miles is signing off. Judy Woodruff is going to be joining us. We're going to continue breaking news coverage, as the manhunt continues for Brian Nichols.

Of course, if you have any information, you're asked to call the Atlanta Police Department.

We'll be right back.

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