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So Just Who is Brian Nichols?; Held Captive
Aired March 14, 2005 - 13:29 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: So just who is Brian Nichols? We've had some clues about Nichols from Ashley Smith, the woman held captive. A little of the picture emerges from Nichols former neighbors and friends.
CNN's Kathleen Koch spoke with them.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On this quiet street in northeast Baltimore where Brian Nichols grew up, there is relief that he surrendered Saturday without a fight.
ROBERT JOHNSON, NEIGHBOR: Well I'm glad that they didn't kill him, you know.
KOCH: Nichols attended a local Catholic school, Cardinal Gibbons High School, where he played basketball and football. His friends say what stood out was his athletic ability and his sense of humor.
TRACEY BREWER, FRIEND: Laughed a lot, smiled a lot, liked to play, you know, liked to joke. I cannot recall any event or behavior from him that would be -- that would send off a warning signal that this was to come, nothing, absolutely nothing.
KOCH: Nichols left Baltimore in 1989 to play football and study at Kutztown University in Pennsylvania and later Newberry College in South Carolina.
CHARLES FRANKLIN JR., FRIEND: But my mind could not comprehend how this could happen to one of our own.
KOCH: Boyhood friend and Minister Charles Franklin shared his disbelief with his congregation.
FRANKLIN: How senseless this is and how tragic it is and how none of us would have ever seen this happening to someone that we know and that is so lovable. The jokes in the neighborhood and very intelligent, and you know what point drove him to this?
KOCH: Answers are in short supply among Nichols' former neighbors.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was just a very nice kid from what I could see. And I really think that whatever the problem was that it lies somewhere way beneath what we can see, you know. KOCH: They wait now for the inevitable court proceedings, and if convicted, the punishment of someone they once thought they knew so well.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would he be found guilty for the crimes, you know, that's -- you know he has to suffer the consequences.
KOCH: Kathleen Koch, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Well, as you know, we've been talking so much about Ashley Smith, that heroic woman who was actually held captive by Brian Nichols. And we heard from her for the first time last night, and in her testimony, or in her story, rather, of what happened that night that Brian Nichols had her inside of her apartment building, she talked about how recently she had been going through some major changes in her life. Her husband had been murdered. He died in her arms. She had a little girl, a 5-year-old girl, and she told Brian Nichols all about this, and told him how much she wanted to be alive and had to be there for her daughter, and that she was the only parent around that needed to be here for the sake of that little girl.
And then she grabbed a book that she had been reading, "The Purpose Driven Life." And we've talked about this book a bit on CNN, "New York Times" bestseller. It's written by a man by the name of Rick Warren. And she had been reading this book, and she was on day 33 of this book. And she asked Brian Nichols, can I go get my book? Can I go get the Bible? And can I read to you? We're going to pick up her story from there.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ASHLEY SMITH, HELD HOSTAGE BY SUSPECT: I asked him if -- I told him that I was supposed to go see my little girl the next morning. And I asked him if I could go see her. And he told me no.
My husband died 4 years ago. And I told him that if he hurt me, my little girl wouldn't have a mommy or a daddy. And she was expecting to see me the next morning. That if he didn't let me go, she would be really upset.
He still told me no.
But I could kind of feel that he started to -- to know who I was. He said, maybe. Maybe I'll let you go -- just maybe. We'll see how things go.
We went to my room. And I asked him if I could read.
He said, what do you want to read?
Well, I have a book in my room. So I went and got it. I got my bible. And I got a book called, "The Purpose Driven Life."
I turned it to the chapter that I was on that day. It was chapter 33. And I started to read the first paragraph of it. After I read it, he said stop, will you read it again.
I said, yeah. I'll read it again.
So I read it again to him.
It mentioned something about what you thought you're purpose in life was. What were you -- what talents were you give? What gifts were you given to use?
And I asked him what he thought. And he said, I think it was to talk to people and tell them about you.
I basically just talked to him and tried to gain his trust. I wanted to leave to go see my daughter. That was really important. I didn't want him to hurt anybody else.
He came into my apartment telling me that he was a soldier. And that people -- that his people needed him for a job to do. And he was doing it.
And -- I didn't want him to hurt anybody else. He didn't want to hurt anybody else. He just told me that he wanted a place to stay to relax, to sit down and watch TV, to eat some real food.
I talked to him about my family. I told him about things that had happened in my life. I asked him about his family. I asked him why he did what he did.
And his reason was because he was a soldier.
I asked him why he chose me and why he chose Bridgewater Apartments. And he said he didn't know, just randomly.
But after we began to talk, he said he thought that I was an angel sent from God. And that I was his sister and he was my brother in Christ. And that he was lost and God lead him right to me to tell him that he had hurt a lot of people. And the families -- the people -- to let him know how they felt, because I had gone through it myself.
He told me that he didn't -- he didn't want to hurt the agent that he hurt. He begged and pleaded with him to do things his way, and he didn't. So he had to kill him.
He said that he didn't shoot the deputy, that he hit her. And that he hoped she lived.
He showed me a picture of the -- the agent that he did kill. And I tried to explain to him that he killed a 40-year-old man that was probably a father, a husband, a friend.
And he really began to trust me, to feel my feelings. He looked at pictures of my family. He asked me to -- if he could look at them and hold them...
I really didn't keep track of time too much, because I was really worried about just living. I didn't want to die. I didn't want him to hurt anybody else. And I really didn't want him to hurt himself or anyone else to hurt him. He's done enough -- he had done enough. And he really, honestly when I looked at him, he looked like he didn't want to do it any more.
He asked me what I thought he should do.
And I said, I think you should turn yourself in. If you don't turn yourself in, this is what I said, if you don't turn yourself in, lots more people are going to get hurt. And you're probably going to die.
And he said, I don't want that to happen.
He said, can I stay here for a few days? I just want to eat some real food and watch some TV and sleep and just do normal things that normal people do.
So, of course I said, sure. You can stay here. I didn't want -- I wanted to gain his trust.
Most of my time was spent talking to this man about my life and experiences in my life, things that had happened to me.
He needed hope for his life. He told me that he was already dead. He said, look at me, look at my eyes. I am already dead.
And I said, you are not dead. You are standing right in front of me. If you want to die, you can. It's your choice.
But after I started to read to him, he saw -- I guess he saw my faith and what I really believed in. And I told him I was a child of God and that I wanted to do God's will. I guess he began to want to. That's what I think.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: All right, we're going to talk some more about the purpose-driven life, but when we start thinking about the healing and counseling and finding purpose with an unthinkable crime, really, chaplains and grief counselors are really busy today at the Fulton County Courthouse where all this happened. And they're trying to help friends and colleagues of the people killed and wounded in Friday's shooting spree. But how do you make sense of this tragedy? And can you even make sense of this?
My guest just left the courthouse down the street to come speak with me today. We have Reverend Howard Creecy. He's the chaplain for Fulton County. He presided over a prayer service at the courthouse today and also Dr. Barbara Lattimore is with us. And she's director of Fulton County Mental Health Department. It's her job to dispatch the counselors to the courthouse to help deal with everything for going on.
First of all, thank you both for coming over here at the last minute. Means a lot to us. Let's start, since we just came out of this story told to us by Ashley Smith about the "Purpose-Driven Life" -- because when I called you, it was amazing just the twist. You even said, oh, my gosh, I've been using this book in my church and I've been reading about Rick Warren, the man who wrote the book. What does this tell us just about the power of this book and faith and God and the middle of something that has just been horrific?
REV. HOWARD CREECY, FULTON COUNTY CHAPLAIN: I think it was a terrific, terrific job that the author has done in trying to define for us our purpose in life, having us find our dates with destiny. And perhaps it was one thing that prepared this victim to give her strength and courage to deal with the situation in which she found herself. And an understanding that she had a date with destiny, that she had a purpose and that even in this crucial and --- moment, even in this crisis, she could be used by her Christ.
PHILLIPS: And this was a woman -- as we're learning more about Ashley Smith, that's not had an easy life. She's been going through a number of hardships. She lost her husband. He was killed. He died in her arms. So she gets ahold of this book and she's on day 33. We took a piece out of the book. Day 33. And it reads: "We serve God by serving others. The world defiance greatness in terms of power, possessions, prestige and position. If can you demand service from others, you've arrived. In our self-serving culture, with its me- first mentality, acting like a servant is not a popular concept. God determines your greatness by how many people you serve, not how many people serve you."
How did she serve the American public by talking to this man and reading to this man and trying to reason with this man?
CREECY: Well, I think that the book gave her the strength to be an overcomer, even when she faced an obstacle. Because she had been empowered by what she had been studying, she understood it as her opportunity to be an overcomer. So she served as an empowered overcomer. I'm not going to let -- I'm not going to let this situation, this environment, define me. I'm not going to let it oppress me. I'm going to overcome it because I'm now been empowered to know that there's a purpose and a destiny in life, and today I met mine.
PHILLIPS: Barbara Lattimore, let me ask you this. From a mental health perspective, does it surprise you that what Ashley Smith had to say connected with this man that allegedly took four lives?
BARBARA LATTIMORE, FULTON CO. MENTAL HEALTH DEPT.: No, it doesn't. What she spoke to in this individual was the very soul of his existence. By her taking the risk to share the personal side of her that obviously was very deep and that she was very much connected to, she took a risk to share that with him. And it touched his soul. And there is a (INAUDIBLE) book called "The Seed of the Soul." And this is exactly what she spoke to when she shared of herself, not only of her personality, but she shared the time to cook a meal and to go the extra step above and beyond. So it would have been very, very difficult for him not to respond the way that he did, because she did touch the very seed of his soul. PHILLIPS: Wow. Now the two of you were at courthouse today. Let me start with you, Barbara. How did it go with regard to -- well, tell me who you met with and how did it go and how are you dealing with the grief that those at the courthouse are dealing with right now?
LATTIMORE: The situation at the courthouse is indeed very somber, but people are doing a very good job in processing their feelings. There is some denial going on. People are still in shock. They're moving towards anger. Eventually they will move toward acceptance. But I am very comfortable that they are moving in the right direction. That's consistent with the stages of grief.
So we've been available to do some grief counseling and some trauma counseling. We deployed a team of mental health professionals that are certified in trauma counseling and managing the trauma and just guiding them along the grief processes. We've made other avenues available through the EAP, Horizon Behavior Health Services. So the county is really going above and beyond and making sure that our family stays intact.
PHILLIPS: Reverend, your office -- obviously, you preside over a church also, but have you an office at the courthouse. As a pastor, you've never had to deal with anything like this before, with those at the courthouse, with regard to a shooting spree, the death of so many people, that these employees knew. How have you been putting this all together and how have you been, I guess, structuring your thoughts on how you're helping these folks heal?
CREECY: This has been a very unique crisis. We have had other crises in my 25 years of service in other parts of the county, in the south county library facility that -- there have been deputies who were lost in the line of duty with the Alamene (ph) case. But this is the first situation where the complex, the county seat of government, has been directly impacted because of the location of the crisis. And so there is a kind of fracture in the whole fellowship of the Fulton County family because the sanctity and sanctuary of the work environment that you tell yourself is safe, you are now profoundly presented with the fact that you were indeed not as safe...
PHILLIPS: As you always thought you were.
CREECY: ... as you always thought you were. And the danger is ever-present and life is so short and so unsure. I think today that in light of all of this, the employees are bonding together and expressing vocally a relationship that exists between them that perhaps previously had been unspoken. There is a lot of -- there is a lot of touching, a lot of hugging, a lot of corporate grieving, a lot of sharing of grief with persons who normally didn't interact because of different departments and divisions of labor. Today they see themselves as one family who -- one family that has been wounded, and is walking through a wilderness wounded together.
PHILLIPS: Reverend Howard Creecy, Dr. Barbara Lattimore. You two are an amazing team. I know you got your hands full. Thank you for just coming here and sharing the stories. It sounds like everything is going forward in a very positive way. And boy, I think a lot of people are going to be reading "The Purpose-Driven Life," including at your church.
CREECY: It's a wonderful book.
PHILLIPS: Thank you both so much. I really appreciate it.
CREECY: Thank you so very much.
PHILLIPS: We're going to take a quick break. More LIVE FROM right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: We've got a little health news for you. You know the saying, early to bed, early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy and wise? Well, it turns out Ben Franklin was right, at least about the healthy part, not sure about the man part. But anyway, studies show that early birds, or larks, are more likely to stick to healthy routines and have better immunity, sharper minds and better stress control. Night owls are more likely to have immunity problems. High- blood pressure and depression. Plus, people who get six hours or less of sleep per night are likely to have a higher BMI, or body mass index. That means fat.
So what to do. If you're one of an estimated 20 percent of people genetically programmed as a night owl, back up your bedtime and wake time in 15 minutes chunks. Get lots of light to help reset your body clock. And don't sleep in on weekends. Yes, right.
In the meantime, we're going to check in on your money next. More LIVE FROM, right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(STOCK MARKET REPORT)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Well, straight ahead, she's been hailed as a hero, the young woman who managed to talk her way out of a hostage situation with Brian Nichols, the man suspected in the killings at an Atlanta courthouse, and the subject of an intense manhunt. You are going to hear her amazing story in her own words, in its entirety, next on LIVE FROM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired March 14, 2005 - 13:29 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: So just who is Brian Nichols? We've had some clues about Nichols from Ashley Smith, the woman held captive. A little of the picture emerges from Nichols former neighbors and friends.
CNN's Kathleen Koch spoke with them.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On this quiet street in northeast Baltimore where Brian Nichols grew up, there is relief that he surrendered Saturday without a fight.
ROBERT JOHNSON, NEIGHBOR: Well I'm glad that they didn't kill him, you know.
KOCH: Nichols attended a local Catholic school, Cardinal Gibbons High School, where he played basketball and football. His friends say what stood out was his athletic ability and his sense of humor.
TRACEY BREWER, FRIEND: Laughed a lot, smiled a lot, liked to play, you know, liked to joke. I cannot recall any event or behavior from him that would be -- that would send off a warning signal that this was to come, nothing, absolutely nothing.
KOCH: Nichols left Baltimore in 1989 to play football and study at Kutztown University in Pennsylvania and later Newberry College in South Carolina.
CHARLES FRANKLIN JR., FRIEND: But my mind could not comprehend how this could happen to one of our own.
KOCH: Boyhood friend and Minister Charles Franklin shared his disbelief with his congregation.
FRANKLIN: How senseless this is and how tragic it is and how none of us would have ever seen this happening to someone that we know and that is so lovable. The jokes in the neighborhood and very intelligent, and you know what point drove him to this?
KOCH: Answers are in short supply among Nichols' former neighbors.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was just a very nice kid from what I could see. And I really think that whatever the problem was that it lies somewhere way beneath what we can see, you know. KOCH: They wait now for the inevitable court proceedings, and if convicted, the punishment of someone they once thought they knew so well.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would he be found guilty for the crimes, you know, that's -- you know he has to suffer the consequences.
KOCH: Kathleen Koch, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Well, as you know, we've been talking so much about Ashley Smith, that heroic woman who was actually held captive by Brian Nichols. And we heard from her for the first time last night, and in her testimony, or in her story, rather, of what happened that night that Brian Nichols had her inside of her apartment building, she talked about how recently she had been going through some major changes in her life. Her husband had been murdered. He died in her arms. She had a little girl, a 5-year-old girl, and she told Brian Nichols all about this, and told him how much she wanted to be alive and had to be there for her daughter, and that she was the only parent around that needed to be here for the sake of that little girl.
And then she grabbed a book that she had been reading, "The Purpose Driven Life." And we've talked about this book a bit on CNN, "New York Times" bestseller. It's written by a man by the name of Rick Warren. And she had been reading this book, and she was on day 33 of this book. And she asked Brian Nichols, can I go get my book? Can I go get the Bible? And can I read to you? We're going to pick up her story from there.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ASHLEY SMITH, HELD HOSTAGE BY SUSPECT: I asked him if -- I told him that I was supposed to go see my little girl the next morning. And I asked him if I could go see her. And he told me no.
My husband died 4 years ago. And I told him that if he hurt me, my little girl wouldn't have a mommy or a daddy. And she was expecting to see me the next morning. That if he didn't let me go, she would be really upset.
He still told me no.
But I could kind of feel that he started to -- to know who I was. He said, maybe. Maybe I'll let you go -- just maybe. We'll see how things go.
We went to my room. And I asked him if I could read.
He said, what do you want to read?
Well, I have a book in my room. So I went and got it. I got my bible. And I got a book called, "The Purpose Driven Life."
I turned it to the chapter that I was on that day. It was chapter 33. And I started to read the first paragraph of it. After I read it, he said stop, will you read it again.
I said, yeah. I'll read it again.
So I read it again to him.
It mentioned something about what you thought you're purpose in life was. What were you -- what talents were you give? What gifts were you given to use?
And I asked him what he thought. And he said, I think it was to talk to people and tell them about you.
I basically just talked to him and tried to gain his trust. I wanted to leave to go see my daughter. That was really important. I didn't want him to hurt anybody else.
He came into my apartment telling me that he was a soldier. And that people -- that his people needed him for a job to do. And he was doing it.
And -- I didn't want him to hurt anybody else. He didn't want to hurt anybody else. He just told me that he wanted a place to stay to relax, to sit down and watch TV, to eat some real food.
I talked to him about my family. I told him about things that had happened in my life. I asked him about his family. I asked him why he did what he did.
And his reason was because he was a soldier.
I asked him why he chose me and why he chose Bridgewater Apartments. And he said he didn't know, just randomly.
But after we began to talk, he said he thought that I was an angel sent from God. And that I was his sister and he was my brother in Christ. And that he was lost and God lead him right to me to tell him that he had hurt a lot of people. And the families -- the people -- to let him know how they felt, because I had gone through it myself.
He told me that he didn't -- he didn't want to hurt the agent that he hurt. He begged and pleaded with him to do things his way, and he didn't. So he had to kill him.
He said that he didn't shoot the deputy, that he hit her. And that he hoped she lived.
He showed me a picture of the -- the agent that he did kill. And I tried to explain to him that he killed a 40-year-old man that was probably a father, a husband, a friend.
And he really began to trust me, to feel my feelings. He looked at pictures of my family. He asked me to -- if he could look at them and hold them...
I really didn't keep track of time too much, because I was really worried about just living. I didn't want to die. I didn't want him to hurt anybody else. And I really didn't want him to hurt himself or anyone else to hurt him. He's done enough -- he had done enough. And he really, honestly when I looked at him, he looked like he didn't want to do it any more.
He asked me what I thought he should do.
And I said, I think you should turn yourself in. If you don't turn yourself in, this is what I said, if you don't turn yourself in, lots more people are going to get hurt. And you're probably going to die.
And he said, I don't want that to happen.
He said, can I stay here for a few days? I just want to eat some real food and watch some TV and sleep and just do normal things that normal people do.
So, of course I said, sure. You can stay here. I didn't want -- I wanted to gain his trust.
Most of my time was spent talking to this man about my life and experiences in my life, things that had happened to me.
He needed hope for his life. He told me that he was already dead. He said, look at me, look at my eyes. I am already dead.
And I said, you are not dead. You are standing right in front of me. If you want to die, you can. It's your choice.
But after I started to read to him, he saw -- I guess he saw my faith and what I really believed in. And I told him I was a child of God and that I wanted to do God's will. I guess he began to want to. That's what I think.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: All right, we're going to talk some more about the purpose-driven life, but when we start thinking about the healing and counseling and finding purpose with an unthinkable crime, really, chaplains and grief counselors are really busy today at the Fulton County Courthouse where all this happened. And they're trying to help friends and colleagues of the people killed and wounded in Friday's shooting spree. But how do you make sense of this tragedy? And can you even make sense of this?
My guest just left the courthouse down the street to come speak with me today. We have Reverend Howard Creecy. He's the chaplain for Fulton County. He presided over a prayer service at the courthouse today and also Dr. Barbara Lattimore is with us. And she's director of Fulton County Mental Health Department. It's her job to dispatch the counselors to the courthouse to help deal with everything for going on.
First of all, thank you both for coming over here at the last minute. Means a lot to us. Let's start, since we just came out of this story told to us by Ashley Smith about the "Purpose-Driven Life" -- because when I called you, it was amazing just the twist. You even said, oh, my gosh, I've been using this book in my church and I've been reading about Rick Warren, the man who wrote the book. What does this tell us just about the power of this book and faith and God and the middle of something that has just been horrific?
REV. HOWARD CREECY, FULTON COUNTY CHAPLAIN: I think it was a terrific, terrific job that the author has done in trying to define for us our purpose in life, having us find our dates with destiny. And perhaps it was one thing that prepared this victim to give her strength and courage to deal with the situation in which she found herself. And an understanding that she had a date with destiny, that she had a purpose and that even in this crucial and --- moment, even in this crisis, she could be used by her Christ.
PHILLIPS: And this was a woman -- as we're learning more about Ashley Smith, that's not had an easy life. She's been going through a number of hardships. She lost her husband. He was killed. He died in her arms. So she gets ahold of this book and she's on day 33. We took a piece out of the book. Day 33. And it reads: "We serve God by serving others. The world defiance greatness in terms of power, possessions, prestige and position. If can you demand service from others, you've arrived. In our self-serving culture, with its me- first mentality, acting like a servant is not a popular concept. God determines your greatness by how many people you serve, not how many people serve you."
How did she serve the American public by talking to this man and reading to this man and trying to reason with this man?
CREECY: Well, I think that the book gave her the strength to be an overcomer, even when she faced an obstacle. Because she had been empowered by what she had been studying, she understood it as her opportunity to be an overcomer. So she served as an empowered overcomer. I'm not going to let -- I'm not going to let this situation, this environment, define me. I'm not going to let it oppress me. I'm going to overcome it because I'm now been empowered to know that there's a purpose and a destiny in life, and today I met mine.
PHILLIPS: Barbara Lattimore, let me ask you this. From a mental health perspective, does it surprise you that what Ashley Smith had to say connected with this man that allegedly took four lives?
BARBARA LATTIMORE, FULTON CO. MENTAL HEALTH DEPT.: No, it doesn't. What she spoke to in this individual was the very soul of his existence. By her taking the risk to share the personal side of her that obviously was very deep and that she was very much connected to, she took a risk to share that with him. And it touched his soul. And there is a (INAUDIBLE) book called "The Seed of the Soul." And this is exactly what she spoke to when she shared of herself, not only of her personality, but she shared the time to cook a meal and to go the extra step above and beyond. So it would have been very, very difficult for him not to respond the way that he did, because she did touch the very seed of his soul. PHILLIPS: Wow. Now the two of you were at courthouse today. Let me start with you, Barbara. How did it go with regard to -- well, tell me who you met with and how did it go and how are you dealing with the grief that those at the courthouse are dealing with right now?
LATTIMORE: The situation at the courthouse is indeed very somber, but people are doing a very good job in processing their feelings. There is some denial going on. People are still in shock. They're moving towards anger. Eventually they will move toward acceptance. But I am very comfortable that they are moving in the right direction. That's consistent with the stages of grief.
So we've been available to do some grief counseling and some trauma counseling. We deployed a team of mental health professionals that are certified in trauma counseling and managing the trauma and just guiding them along the grief processes. We've made other avenues available through the EAP, Horizon Behavior Health Services. So the county is really going above and beyond and making sure that our family stays intact.
PHILLIPS: Reverend, your office -- obviously, you preside over a church also, but have you an office at the courthouse. As a pastor, you've never had to deal with anything like this before, with those at the courthouse, with regard to a shooting spree, the death of so many people, that these employees knew. How have you been putting this all together and how have you been, I guess, structuring your thoughts on how you're helping these folks heal?
CREECY: This has been a very unique crisis. We have had other crises in my 25 years of service in other parts of the county, in the south county library facility that -- there have been deputies who were lost in the line of duty with the Alamene (ph) case. But this is the first situation where the complex, the county seat of government, has been directly impacted because of the location of the crisis. And so there is a kind of fracture in the whole fellowship of the Fulton County family because the sanctity and sanctuary of the work environment that you tell yourself is safe, you are now profoundly presented with the fact that you were indeed not as safe...
PHILLIPS: As you always thought you were.
CREECY: ... as you always thought you were. And the danger is ever-present and life is so short and so unsure. I think today that in light of all of this, the employees are bonding together and expressing vocally a relationship that exists between them that perhaps previously had been unspoken. There is a lot of -- there is a lot of touching, a lot of hugging, a lot of corporate grieving, a lot of sharing of grief with persons who normally didn't interact because of different departments and divisions of labor. Today they see themselves as one family who -- one family that has been wounded, and is walking through a wilderness wounded together.
PHILLIPS: Reverend Howard Creecy, Dr. Barbara Lattimore. You two are an amazing team. I know you got your hands full. Thank you for just coming here and sharing the stories. It sounds like everything is going forward in a very positive way. And boy, I think a lot of people are going to be reading "The Purpose-Driven Life," including at your church.
CREECY: It's a wonderful book.
PHILLIPS: Thank you both so much. I really appreciate it.
CREECY: Thank you so very much.
PHILLIPS: We're going to take a quick break. More LIVE FROM right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: We've got a little health news for you. You know the saying, early to bed, early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy and wise? Well, it turns out Ben Franklin was right, at least about the healthy part, not sure about the man part. But anyway, studies show that early birds, or larks, are more likely to stick to healthy routines and have better immunity, sharper minds and better stress control. Night owls are more likely to have immunity problems. High- blood pressure and depression. Plus, people who get six hours or less of sleep per night are likely to have a higher BMI, or body mass index. That means fat.
So what to do. If you're one of an estimated 20 percent of people genetically programmed as a night owl, back up your bedtime and wake time in 15 minutes chunks. Get lots of light to help reset your body clock. And don't sleep in on weekends. Yes, right.
In the meantime, we're going to check in on your money next. More LIVE FROM, right after this.
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PHILLIPS: Well, straight ahead, she's been hailed as a hero, the young woman who managed to talk her way out of a hostage situation with Brian Nichols, the man suspected in the killings at an Atlanta courthouse, and the subject of an intense manhunt. You are going to hear her amazing story in her own words, in its entirety, next on LIVE FROM.
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