Return to Transcripts main page

Live From...

Atlanta Courthouse Reopens After Shootings; Twist in Jackson Trial

Aired March 14, 2005 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Here's what's happening right "Now in the News."
Locked behind bars. Atlanta killing spree suspect Brian Nichols is under maximum security at a federal penitentiary this hour. Atlanta's police chief says three murder warrants have been filed against Nichols. Prosecutors say Nichols faces a large indictment. We are going to have a live report in just a few minutes.

Also, it's a final homecoming for David Wilhelm, the victim -- one of the victims of the Atlanta shootings. An Atlanta-area funeral home is driving Wilhelm's body to his hometown of Salisbury, North Carolina. He recently moved to Atlanta and was made second-in-command over the local U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement office.

And in that fatal church shooting in Wisconsin, a candlelight vigil is held to remember the victims. Police say Terry Ratzmann gunned down seven people before killing himself. Investigators say Ratzmann was on the verge of losing his job and was upset over a recent sermon.

In Columbus, Ohio, a second grader is hurt after authorities say a gun in his book bag accidentally went off. The 7-year-old was shot in the hand while at his elementary school. Police are questioning his parents to figure out where he got the gun. Classes at school were not canceled.

OK, in other news, a bombshell admission in the Michael Jackson trial today. The teen accusing the pop star of child molestation told a teacher nothing bad happened to him at Jackson's Neverland Ranch. And they are taking a break from testimony right now. So let's see if we can get the latest from our Miguel Marquez, outside the Santa Maria courthouse. Miguel, is this another contradiction in testimony so far?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it is the sort of contradictions that the defense is highlighting. And it is a pretty big admission by this kid that after the Martin Bashir documentary aired and after his family had cut ties to Neverland that at his school, he told the dean of that school that Mr. Jackson had never done anything inappropriately to him.

Reading from the transcript of that interview, Tom Mesereau said that the dean said this: "Look at me. Look at me. I can't help you if you don't talk to me. Is there anything that happened there? Did anything happen?" And the accuser said no. And this was a private meeting with his dean, so it is -- it's interesting that the kid would not admit to anything there.

The other thing that Tom Mesereau did was to go into this kid's history at school. All that stuff about going down on your permanent record, well, it all came out, and it was on his permanent record. Every single teacher or almost every single teacher, this kid had disciplinary problems with. They called him disrespectful and disruptive in their classes. Mesereau painted a picture of a kid who wouldn't take anything from anybody if he didn't believe what they were doing was right. And that the kid always stood up for what he felt he needed to do.

Another piece of evidence that came in today which had to do with what the boy testified to last week. He testified that Michael Jackson had told him about how to masturbate and that his grandmother -- and that if he didn't do it, that he could end up raping a girl. He told Santa Barbara County Sheriff's officers earlier in an interview that his grandmother had told him all of that information. And he had a difficult time reconciling those two differences in information earlier today.

Right now what's going on is that kid is being questioned very heavily about time frames, when, what, happened at Neverland Ranch. And Mr. Mesereau is really trying to nail him down on that so that either later on in his testimony or through other people, he can -- he can try to impeach him on that testimony as well. Back to you for now.

LIN: All right. Thanks very much. Miguel Marquez, live at the Santa Maria Courthouse -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Straight ahead, anxious courthouse employees go back to work for the first time after the deadly shootings here in Atlanta. We're there live. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KYRA PHILLIPS: Well, a sense of relief and a sense of sadness. So many emotions as the Atlanta Courthouse reopens after a terrifying killing spree. Meanwhile, the alleged gunman is in prison facing numerous charges. CNN's Kimberly Osias is live outside the courthouse with the latest -- Kimberly.

KIMBERLY OSIAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Kyra. Well, as you can well imagine, it is a very difficult day here at the courthouse. This is the first day back to work after Friday morning's grisly shooting. For the people that work here, it was very personal -- personal and poignant. But I spoke to a couple deputies earlier who said that they are on the job because they need to be on the job. This is just what they do. It is, of course, difficult. There was a private service with the chaplain here earlier. There will be a public memorial service tomorrow at noon for individuals wanting to remember or honor the victims.

There are four victims involved: Superior Court Judge Rowland Barnes, who was very well-known in legal circles, highly esteemed; his court reporter, Julie Anne Brandau, said to have exhibited tremendous Southern hospitality. Also a third victim, Sergeant Hoyt Teasely, who was said to really love his job, be a true stand-up guy. And the fourth victim, the last victim, U.S. customs and immigrations officer David Wilhelm.

Again, security protocols and procedures are basically status quo right now. As you can imagine, they will be examining and reviewing those as the days and weeks follow -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: And we'll be there at the memorial service tomorrow. Kimberly Osias, thanks.

LIN: Well, our Web site offers an interactive look at the details of the shooting so why don't we log on with Christina Park from cnn.com to see what's going on there?

CHRISTINA PARK, CNN.COM: Thanks, Carol. Actually, one of our most clicked on stories at cnn.com is the top story that you've been covering on CNN TV. And we're covering all angles of the story, including a special profile of the shooting suspect Brian Nichols, starting from his childhood. Friends say Nichols was an intelligent with a playful, joking personality. Nichols attended Catholic school in Baltimore. One pastor who knew him as a boy says it's hard to believe someone so lovable could be involved in shootings that killed four people.

Also on cnn.com, we'll find a special timeline of how the manhunt unfolded, starting from the hour Nichols entered the courthouse Friday to his capture on Saturday. Earlier in the show, we heard from Ashley Smith, recounting her ordeal as Nichols' hostage. If you missed it, you can read the entire transcript online at cnn.com, as well as to learn about her personal history.

Smith was widowed four years ago when her husband was stabbed. She says he died in her arms. Smith says she and Nichols talked about God and had an impromptu bible study. Even reading from the book "The Purpose-Driven Life" by Rick Warren. The book is on the Wall Street Journal's top ten list for non-fiction general. It's also in "The New York Times" top five list for best-selling hardback under advice or self-help.

Carol, I also called the Saddleback Church in Lakeforest, California. And the author actually founded this church, Pastor Rick Warren. He's in Africa now, but they say that they have been inundated with calls and inquiries about the book "The Purpose-Driven Life."

LIN: I can imagine. It's been a best-seller for a while and now it's probably going to go through the roof.

PARK: Absolutely. It's sold more than 17 million copies.

LIN: Remarkable. All right, thanks very much, Christina.

PARK: Thanks, Carol.

LIN: Good advice to log on cnn.com.

In the meantime, a man accused of plotting with al Qaeda to kill President Bush gets his day in court. So we're going to update you in that security report. It's a CNN "Security Watch" report.

Later, Americans' love/hate relationship with their cell phones. Love the convenience, hate the noise pollution. We'll talk about it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: A Virginia man accused of terrorism plots and planning to kill the president says he's innocent. 23-year-old Ahmed Omar Abu Ali pleaded not guilty to the charges today in federal court. Prosecutors say that Abu Ali, a U.S. citizen, joined al Qaeda while studying in Saudi Arabia. He's accused of supporting and conspiring with al Qaeda and plotting to kill President Bush. Federal agents say Abu Ali has admitted his guilt. His defense said Abu Ali was tortured by the Saudis. His trial begins in August.

LIN: Well, billions of your tax dollars spent on beefing up aviation security and apparently it is not enough. A report by Homeland Security officials and the FBI says commercial airlines are still vulnerable to terror attacks. And it also suggests al Qaeda may be planning attacks targeting noncommercial airplanes and helicopters. Now, officials warn al Qaeda is testing security improvements looking for weaknesses.

PHILLIPS: Terror mastermind Abu Musab al Zarqawi may be casing so-called soft targets in the U.S. According to "Time" magazine, al Qaeda's chief ally in Iraq may be planning attacks against American movie theaters, restaurants and schools. A warning is circulating among U.S. security agencies now, but apparently there's no evidence al Zarqawi's agents have infiltrated the U.S. Stay with CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security.

Well, what's the one gadget that you wouldn't want to live without? America's fascination with cell phones. I thought they were annoying.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: OK. If you've ever been told to quiet down while talking on your cell phone, you are not alone.

PHILLIPS: Are you pointing at me?

LIN: You do not have any experience at this, I know, Miss Cell Phone. Cell phone use is on the rise, but so is irritation with cell phone users. Except Kyra Phillips, of course.

PHILLIPS: It's the ringing. It's all the different rings, you know, "The Star-Spangled Banner," the "Mozart's Fifth." Right, Susan Lisovicz? It's not the fact that we're talking loud and annoying everybody.

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra and Carol, I have to tell you, guilty as charged. I've actually asked somebody to lower their voice while I was commuting one day. And he looked very offended, but I think I got applause from the rest of the bus.

More than half of all Americans now have cell phones, specifically nearly 180 million wireless subscribers in the U.S. But it appears that many of us have mixed feelings about cell phone use. In a poll conducted by the University of Michigan, 60 percent of those surveyed said people using cell phones in public is a major irritation. 40 percent said there should be a law against using them in places such as museums, movie theaters and restaurants. But on the flip side, most users also agreed that cell phones make our lives easier. Looks like most people think they're a necessary evil. Carol and Kyra, back to you.

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

LIN: Well, no doubt, you have heard the amazing story of Ashley Smith by now and how she managed to talk her way out of a hostage situation.

PHILLIPS: And moments -- just moments away here on LIVE FROM, I'm going to get a chance to talk with a former SWAT commander and hostage negotiator who says after hearing her tell her story, he'd put her on his team. Find out what specific things she did to get out that the pros do to get out alive just ahead.

LIN: Now that would be a twist.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: "Now in the News," three murder warrants are filed against Brian Nichols, suspected in the Atlanta courtroom killings and the death of a federal agent. Atlanta police chief Richard Pennington says that Nichols will probably remain locked up at the Atlanta Federal Penitentiary until his arraignment. We're going to bring you up to date in a live report just moments from now.

With world oil prices near record highs, Saudi Arabia is calling for a two percent increase in daily production. That led to an immediate easing of prices for crude, which later rose. Other OPEC nations, such as Iran, insist that oil output should stay the same. An official OPEC meeting begins in Wednesday in Tehran, Iran's capital city.

A political battle in Vermont. The fight over Howard Dean's records as governor goes to the state supreme court. Dean wants the records to remain sealed for ten years. The state is appealing a ruling that the records are presumed to be open. Dean is now the newly-elected chairman of the Democratic National Committee.

LIN: First the Atlanta killing spree and suspect Brian Nichols. Today, a mistrial declared in Nichols' rape trial, which he threw into chaos Friday by allegedly shooting the judge and the court reporter. Also today, the U.S. Attorney drops a federal charge against Nichols to pave the way for local officials to file four counts of murder. We are going to start at the scene where it began Friday. CNN's Kimberly Osias outside Fulton Superior Court in Atlanta. Kimberly, can you give us an idea of what the mood was there today?

OSIAS: Well, Carol, obviously people are back to work and it is business as usual, as can be expected given, of course, the grisly shootings that occurred here Friday morning. I spoke to several deputies a little while ago, and they said they are on the job, but that is with a heavy heart because they knew these people intimately. For them, it was not just an incredibly riveting news story, it was a personal story, as well. These individuals were very well-known in legal circles, well-known to their colleagues and to many people in the Atlanta community as well. There was a private service here.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired March 14, 2005 - 14:30   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Here's what's happening right "Now in the News."
Locked behind bars. Atlanta killing spree suspect Brian Nichols is under maximum security at a federal penitentiary this hour. Atlanta's police chief says three murder warrants have been filed against Nichols. Prosecutors say Nichols faces a large indictment. We are going to have a live report in just a few minutes.

Also, it's a final homecoming for David Wilhelm, the victim -- one of the victims of the Atlanta shootings. An Atlanta-area funeral home is driving Wilhelm's body to his hometown of Salisbury, North Carolina. He recently moved to Atlanta and was made second-in-command over the local U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement office.

And in that fatal church shooting in Wisconsin, a candlelight vigil is held to remember the victims. Police say Terry Ratzmann gunned down seven people before killing himself. Investigators say Ratzmann was on the verge of losing his job and was upset over a recent sermon.

In Columbus, Ohio, a second grader is hurt after authorities say a gun in his book bag accidentally went off. The 7-year-old was shot in the hand while at his elementary school. Police are questioning his parents to figure out where he got the gun. Classes at school were not canceled.

OK, in other news, a bombshell admission in the Michael Jackson trial today. The teen accusing the pop star of child molestation told a teacher nothing bad happened to him at Jackson's Neverland Ranch. And they are taking a break from testimony right now. So let's see if we can get the latest from our Miguel Marquez, outside the Santa Maria courthouse. Miguel, is this another contradiction in testimony so far?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it is the sort of contradictions that the defense is highlighting. And it is a pretty big admission by this kid that after the Martin Bashir documentary aired and after his family had cut ties to Neverland that at his school, he told the dean of that school that Mr. Jackson had never done anything inappropriately to him.

Reading from the transcript of that interview, Tom Mesereau said that the dean said this: "Look at me. Look at me. I can't help you if you don't talk to me. Is there anything that happened there? Did anything happen?" And the accuser said no. And this was a private meeting with his dean, so it is -- it's interesting that the kid would not admit to anything there.

The other thing that Tom Mesereau did was to go into this kid's history at school. All that stuff about going down on your permanent record, well, it all came out, and it was on his permanent record. Every single teacher or almost every single teacher, this kid had disciplinary problems with. They called him disrespectful and disruptive in their classes. Mesereau painted a picture of a kid who wouldn't take anything from anybody if he didn't believe what they were doing was right. And that the kid always stood up for what he felt he needed to do.

Another piece of evidence that came in today which had to do with what the boy testified to last week. He testified that Michael Jackson had told him about how to masturbate and that his grandmother -- and that if he didn't do it, that he could end up raping a girl. He told Santa Barbara County Sheriff's officers earlier in an interview that his grandmother had told him all of that information. And he had a difficult time reconciling those two differences in information earlier today.

Right now what's going on is that kid is being questioned very heavily about time frames, when, what, happened at Neverland Ranch. And Mr. Mesereau is really trying to nail him down on that so that either later on in his testimony or through other people, he can -- he can try to impeach him on that testimony as well. Back to you for now.

LIN: All right. Thanks very much. Miguel Marquez, live at the Santa Maria Courthouse -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Straight ahead, anxious courthouse employees go back to work for the first time after the deadly shootings here in Atlanta. We're there live. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KYRA PHILLIPS: Well, a sense of relief and a sense of sadness. So many emotions as the Atlanta Courthouse reopens after a terrifying killing spree. Meanwhile, the alleged gunman is in prison facing numerous charges. CNN's Kimberly Osias is live outside the courthouse with the latest -- Kimberly.

KIMBERLY OSIAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Kyra. Well, as you can well imagine, it is a very difficult day here at the courthouse. This is the first day back to work after Friday morning's grisly shooting. For the people that work here, it was very personal -- personal and poignant. But I spoke to a couple deputies earlier who said that they are on the job because they need to be on the job. This is just what they do. It is, of course, difficult. There was a private service with the chaplain here earlier. There will be a public memorial service tomorrow at noon for individuals wanting to remember or honor the victims.

There are four victims involved: Superior Court Judge Rowland Barnes, who was very well-known in legal circles, highly esteemed; his court reporter, Julie Anne Brandau, said to have exhibited tremendous Southern hospitality. Also a third victim, Sergeant Hoyt Teasely, who was said to really love his job, be a true stand-up guy. And the fourth victim, the last victim, U.S. customs and immigrations officer David Wilhelm.

Again, security protocols and procedures are basically status quo right now. As you can imagine, they will be examining and reviewing those as the days and weeks follow -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: And we'll be there at the memorial service tomorrow. Kimberly Osias, thanks.

LIN: Well, our Web site offers an interactive look at the details of the shooting so why don't we log on with Christina Park from cnn.com to see what's going on there?

CHRISTINA PARK, CNN.COM: Thanks, Carol. Actually, one of our most clicked on stories at cnn.com is the top story that you've been covering on CNN TV. And we're covering all angles of the story, including a special profile of the shooting suspect Brian Nichols, starting from his childhood. Friends say Nichols was an intelligent with a playful, joking personality. Nichols attended Catholic school in Baltimore. One pastor who knew him as a boy says it's hard to believe someone so lovable could be involved in shootings that killed four people.

Also on cnn.com, we'll find a special timeline of how the manhunt unfolded, starting from the hour Nichols entered the courthouse Friday to his capture on Saturday. Earlier in the show, we heard from Ashley Smith, recounting her ordeal as Nichols' hostage. If you missed it, you can read the entire transcript online at cnn.com, as well as to learn about her personal history.

Smith was widowed four years ago when her husband was stabbed. She says he died in her arms. Smith says she and Nichols talked about God and had an impromptu bible study. Even reading from the book "The Purpose-Driven Life" by Rick Warren. The book is on the Wall Street Journal's top ten list for non-fiction general. It's also in "The New York Times" top five list for best-selling hardback under advice or self-help.

Carol, I also called the Saddleback Church in Lakeforest, California. And the author actually founded this church, Pastor Rick Warren. He's in Africa now, but they say that they have been inundated with calls and inquiries about the book "The Purpose-Driven Life."

LIN: I can imagine. It's been a best-seller for a while and now it's probably going to go through the roof.

PARK: Absolutely. It's sold more than 17 million copies.

LIN: Remarkable. All right, thanks very much, Christina.

PARK: Thanks, Carol.

LIN: Good advice to log on cnn.com.

In the meantime, a man accused of plotting with al Qaeda to kill President Bush gets his day in court. So we're going to update you in that security report. It's a CNN "Security Watch" report.

Later, Americans' love/hate relationship with their cell phones. Love the convenience, hate the noise pollution. We'll talk about it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: A Virginia man accused of terrorism plots and planning to kill the president says he's innocent. 23-year-old Ahmed Omar Abu Ali pleaded not guilty to the charges today in federal court. Prosecutors say that Abu Ali, a U.S. citizen, joined al Qaeda while studying in Saudi Arabia. He's accused of supporting and conspiring with al Qaeda and plotting to kill President Bush. Federal agents say Abu Ali has admitted his guilt. His defense said Abu Ali was tortured by the Saudis. His trial begins in August.

LIN: Well, billions of your tax dollars spent on beefing up aviation security and apparently it is not enough. A report by Homeland Security officials and the FBI says commercial airlines are still vulnerable to terror attacks. And it also suggests al Qaeda may be planning attacks targeting noncommercial airplanes and helicopters. Now, officials warn al Qaeda is testing security improvements looking for weaknesses.

PHILLIPS: Terror mastermind Abu Musab al Zarqawi may be casing so-called soft targets in the U.S. According to "Time" magazine, al Qaeda's chief ally in Iraq may be planning attacks against American movie theaters, restaurants and schools. A warning is circulating among U.S. security agencies now, but apparently there's no evidence al Zarqawi's agents have infiltrated the U.S. Stay with CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security.

Well, what's the one gadget that you wouldn't want to live without? America's fascination with cell phones. I thought they were annoying.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: OK. If you've ever been told to quiet down while talking on your cell phone, you are not alone.

PHILLIPS: Are you pointing at me?

LIN: You do not have any experience at this, I know, Miss Cell Phone. Cell phone use is on the rise, but so is irritation with cell phone users. Except Kyra Phillips, of course.

PHILLIPS: It's the ringing. It's all the different rings, you know, "The Star-Spangled Banner," the "Mozart's Fifth." Right, Susan Lisovicz? It's not the fact that we're talking loud and annoying everybody.

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra and Carol, I have to tell you, guilty as charged. I've actually asked somebody to lower their voice while I was commuting one day. And he looked very offended, but I think I got applause from the rest of the bus.

More than half of all Americans now have cell phones, specifically nearly 180 million wireless subscribers in the U.S. But it appears that many of us have mixed feelings about cell phone use. In a poll conducted by the University of Michigan, 60 percent of those surveyed said people using cell phones in public is a major irritation. 40 percent said there should be a law against using them in places such as museums, movie theaters and restaurants. But on the flip side, most users also agreed that cell phones make our lives easier. Looks like most people think they're a necessary evil. Carol and Kyra, back to you.

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

LIN: Well, no doubt, you have heard the amazing story of Ashley Smith by now and how she managed to talk her way out of a hostage situation.

PHILLIPS: And moments -- just moments away here on LIVE FROM, I'm going to get a chance to talk with a former SWAT commander and hostage negotiator who says after hearing her tell her story, he'd put her on his team. Find out what specific things she did to get out that the pros do to get out alive just ahead.

LIN: Now that would be a twist.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: "Now in the News," three murder warrants are filed against Brian Nichols, suspected in the Atlanta courtroom killings and the death of a federal agent. Atlanta police chief Richard Pennington says that Nichols will probably remain locked up at the Atlanta Federal Penitentiary until his arraignment. We're going to bring you up to date in a live report just moments from now.

With world oil prices near record highs, Saudi Arabia is calling for a two percent increase in daily production. That led to an immediate easing of prices for crude, which later rose. Other OPEC nations, such as Iran, insist that oil output should stay the same. An official OPEC meeting begins in Wednesday in Tehran, Iran's capital city.

A political battle in Vermont. The fight over Howard Dean's records as governor goes to the state supreme court. Dean wants the records to remain sealed for ten years. The state is appealing a ruling that the records are presumed to be open. Dean is now the newly-elected chairman of the Democratic National Committee.

LIN: First the Atlanta killing spree and suspect Brian Nichols. Today, a mistrial declared in Nichols' rape trial, which he threw into chaos Friday by allegedly shooting the judge and the court reporter. Also today, the U.S. Attorney drops a federal charge against Nichols to pave the way for local officials to file four counts of murder. We are going to start at the scene where it began Friday. CNN's Kimberly Osias outside Fulton Superior Court in Atlanta. Kimberly, can you give us an idea of what the mood was there today?

OSIAS: Well, Carol, obviously people are back to work and it is business as usual, as can be expected given, of course, the grisly shootings that occurred here Friday morning. I spoke to several deputies a little while ago, and they said they are on the job, but that is with a heavy heart because they knew these people intimately. For them, it was not just an incredibly riveting news story, it was a personal story, as well. These individuals were very well-known in legal circles, well-known to their colleagues and to many people in the Atlanta community as well. There was a private service here.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com