Return to Transcripts main page
Live From...
After Suspect Caught, Making Sense of Courthouse Killings; Thousands of Lebanese Protest Pro-Syrian Government; Hostage Negotiator Outlines what Ashley Smith Did Right
Aired March 14, 2005 - 14:57 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: "Now in the News," three murder warrants are filed against Brian Nichols, suspected in the Atlanta courtroom killings and the death of a federal agent. Atlanta police chief Richard Pennington says that Nichols will probably remain locked up at the Atlanta Federal Penitentiary until his arraignment. We're going to bring you up to date in a live report just moments from now.
With world oil prices near record highs, Saudi Arabia is calling for a two percent increase in daily production. That led to an immediate easing of prices for crude, which later rose. Other OPEC nations, such as Iran, insist that oil output should stay the same. An official OPEC meeting begins in Wednesday in Tehran, Iran's capital city.
A political battle in Vermont. The fight over Howard Dean's records as governor goes to the state supreme court. Dean wants the records to remain sealed for ten years. The state is appealing a ruling that the records are presumed to be open. Dean is now the newly-elected chairman of the Democratic National Committee.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: First the Atlanta killing spree and suspect Brian Nichols. Today, a mistrial declared in Nichols' rape trial, which he threw into chaos Friday by allegedly shooting the judge and the court reporter. Also today, the U.S. Attorney drops a federal charge against Nichols to pave the way for local officials to file four counts of murder. We are going to start at the scene where it began Friday.
CNN's Kimberly Osias outside Fulton Superior Court in Atlanta. Kimberly, can you give us an idea of what the mood was there today?
OSIAS: Well, Carol, obviously people are back to work and it is business as usual, as can be expected given, of course, the grisly shootings that occurred here Friday morning. I spoke to several deputies a little while ago, and they said they are on the job, but that is with a heavy heart because they knew these people intimately. For them, it was not just an incredibly riveting news story, it was a personal story, as well. These individuals were very well-known in legal circles, well-known to their colleagues and to many people in the Atlanta community as well. There was a private service here. The chaplain met with lot of court workers. There will be a public memorial service tomorrow here at noon honoring those four victims.
The man accused and the man believed to be behind, 33-year-old Brian Nichols, is in the federal penitentiary. The federal charge, the firearm charge that essentially held him has been dropped in order to give state officials and prosecutors the first crack, really, at Mr. Nichols. They are developing their case right now, but, obviously, this is a story that has touched so many people.
And perhaps he never may have been arrested had it not been for the heroicism and bravery of the young 26-year-old hostage, Ashley Smith. Amazing, amazing testimony and story from her, Carol.
I know many people have been incredibly moved and engrossed watching her speak, how she spent almost eight hours with Mr. Nichols, really reading Bible verses.
I was over at that apartment complex in Gwinett (ph) yesterday, speaking to her neighbors that said basically she had just moved into the area almost a week ago. She is a young mother, a widow, of a 5- year-old daughter. Incredibly, incredibly moving tale of her.
There was a $60,000 reward placed on anybody that could give a tip about Mr. Nichols' whereabouts. Whether or not she will receive it we still don't know, but certainly, certainly well deserving of that, Carol.
LIN: You bet. All right. Thanks very much, Kimberly, with the big picture.
We also want to tell you that a law enforcement official confirms that court surveillance tapes have been confiscated now as evidence. According to the "Atlanta Journal-Constitution," Nichols' initial attack on a deputy sheriff was captured live by a camera, but went unnoticed in a court security center.
Also being reviewed in the case, how Atlanta police spent hours in search of a purported getaway car that had never actually left a downtown parking lot. Atlanta's police chief concedes his force made a mistake on that one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF RICHARD PENNINGTON, ATLANTA POLICE DEPARTMENT: I'm in the process of looking at what we did right and what we did wrong, and primarily one area that I'm really focused on is that automobile being parked, that Honda being parked in the garage.
I know that there was chaos that day. A lot of things were going on. But -- and information that we received that Brian Nichols actually drove out of that garage, but, you know, I think we made a mistake by not thoroughly covering that garage. And I want to find out why it occurred and why it happened and so we don't make that mistake again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: Chief Pennington told us the federal government, the state of Georgia, Fulton County and the city of Atlanta have formed a task force now to improve court security. PHILLIPS: The body of agent David Wilhelm is being returned to his hometown in North Carolina. Wilhelm had worked for the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agency for 18 years. The 40-year- old is remembered as a good investigator with an easy-going personality.
Wilhelm was believed to be working on his house when he was allegedly shot and killed by Brian Nichols.
And now the one who got away, Ashley Smith has already hired an Atlanta law firm to help her sort through the inevitable movie and book offers. And no wonder: this is a woman with a spell-binding story of being held captive by multiple murder suspect Brian Nichols.
And she relied on her Christian faith and on a strength born of personal loss, the violent death of her husband. Ashley Smith didn't panic. She just talked. And at the end of a seven-hour ordeal she had not only saved her own life but convinced Nichols to surrender without a struggle.
Interviewed today by our affiliate, WJBF in Augusta, Georgia, Ashley Smith's grandparents are grateful and relieved, but not all are surprised she lived to tell this tale.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She told us six years ago, Papa, Mama believe me, I'm going to do something that's going to make you proud of me.
ANN MACHOVECH, ASHLEY SMITH'S GRANDMOTHER: One day you'll be proud of me. That was this weekend.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's all the lord. It's amazing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Smith says that she won Nichols' trust and that may have saved her life.
Later this hour -- half hour, I'm going to talk with a former SWAT commander and hostage negotiator for the New Orleans Police Department. We're going to get his take on all this.
And be sure to stay with CNN for all the developments in this case and join Aaron Brown tonight at 10 eastern. He'll take a closer look inside the manhunt for Brian Nichols on "NEWSNIGHT."
LIN: All right. Now we want to move on to the murders of an Illinois judge's family. Did authorities track the suspect six years ago?
Well, former state officials tell the Associated Press they investigated Bart Ross back in 1999 after he sent threatening letters aimed at government and a judiciary. Officials say there was no sign he was violent. Now police say Ross shot himself at a traffic stop last week. They later found a note in which he implicated himself in the murders of Judge Joan Lefkow's husband and mother. That's prompted a lot of coverage about safety for judges and in courtrooms across the country.
PHILLIPS: We've got more news now across America.
Doctors say three people hospitalized after the Milwaukee area hotel blood bath should fully recover. A fourth victim was already released. Seven people were killed when a man opened fire during a church service Saturday. He then turned the gun on himself. Investigators say the gunman was on the verge of losing his job and was upset over a sermon.
The accuser is back on the stand in the Michael Jackson trial. The 15-year-old is being questioned by the defense. He testified that he told a school administrator nothing sexual happened between him and the pop star. This was Jackson's first court appearance since he showed up in pajamas last week.
And Scott Peterson's lawyers are making an 11th-hour pitch for a new trial. Peterson is to be formally sentenced on Wednesday. A jury set his penalty as death for the murders of his wife and unborn son.
A post office in Hamilton, New Jersey, back in business for the first time since letters contaminated with anthrax were sorted there more than three years ago. Four postal workers were infected.
That building has been fumigated and renovated top to bottom and now has a state-of-the-art equipment to detect anthrax. The cost of the cleanup is estimated at $80 million to $100 million.
U.S. aircraft may be an attractive target for terrorists despite beefed up security since the September 11 attacks. Well, a new report by the Homeland Security Department and the FBI singles out noncommercial planes and helicopters, but the report adds al Qaeda appears to be keeping an eye on commercial aircraft as well, hoping to devise ways around expensive new security procedures.
Well, from Iraq to the United States. "TIME" magazine is reporting terrorist mastermind Abu Musab al-Zarqawi may be expanding his reach. Interrogations of a top Zarqawi aide have reportedly revealed that Zarqawi discussed possible attacks on so-called soft targets in America, including movie theaters, restaurants and malls. "TIME" says U.S. security agencies were notified of the potential threat in a bulletin that was sent out last week.
LIN: Let's take a look at some international news. In Lebanon, a political game of can you top this? Demonstrators for and against Syrian troops in Lebanon are both trying to stage the biggest turnout. Hundreds of thousands turned out today for an anti-Syria protest in Beirut.
CNN's senior international correspondent Brent Sadler reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BRENT SADLER, CNN SR. INTL. CORRESPONDENT: The politics of people power. Pouring on to the streets of downtown Beirut. Thousands gathering, at first, with masses on the way. Their volume expanding by the hour, answering the call for a counter protest, challenging Syria's dominant role in Lebanon, outnumbering a mass rally in Beirut last week, staged by Lebanon's Hezbollah organization, supporting Syria.
Like a giant human wave, though, the opposition swamped Martyr's Square, forming a sea of Lebanese flags.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The people today represented the vast majority of Lebanon who just wanted to say enough is enough. We want the message out. We want a new independent and free and unified Lebanon.
SADLER: They assembled around the final resting place of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri, assassinated in a massive bomb blast four weeks ago to the day.
In the raging political battle that's ensued, size matters. Hezbollah claimed half a million on the streets last week. Protest organizers here set their sights on a million strong protest march.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Lebanese people are sick and tired of the status quo, and they want true independence.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want our country to be free with no oppression, just freedom. And you want the truth. First of all you want the truth.
SADLER: The truth behind the Hariri killing, no less a mystery today than it was a month ago.
But Lebanese political sources close to the investigation claim Irish detectives suspect an organized cover-up. Many of these anti- Syrian demonstrators suspect Syria or its intelligence allies in Lebanon were somehow complicit or at least deliberately negligent on security matters.
(on camera) This powerful turnout is already claimed a triumph of free expression by the Christian, Muslim and Jewish (ph) political parties behind it. But the same religious groups are also represented in the rival camp, claiming they, too, are winning the numbers game in a bitterly contested standoff.
Brent Sadler, CNN, Beirut.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: CNN's Anderson Cooper will be reporting live from Lebanon this evening. For the latest on Lebanon and Syria, tune in to "ANDERSON COOPER 360" at 7 p.m. Eastern.
PHILLIPS: Other news around the world now, Palestinians protest in Ramallah. They say the separation barrier being built by Israel is a land grab that includes areas claimed by the Palestinians for a future state.
While hundreds protested outside the Palestinian government compound, U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan was inside meeting with Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas. Annan says that the U.N. will register property claims against Israel in connection with the barrier. The U.N.'s court has ruled the barrier is illegal.
Annan is on his first visit to the region in four years, promoting peace efforts.
And raising the stakes over Taiwan. China passes a law authorizing force if Taiwan moves towards independence. Beijing considers the island Chinese territory. Taiwan calls the new law a serious provocation. The White House also is criticizing that move.
LIN: We've been talking about this remarkable woman who spent several terrifying hours with Georgia's most wanted man.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ASHLEY SMITH, HOSTAGE SURVIVOR: He brought some masking tape and then an extension cord and a curtain in there, and I kind of thought he was going to strangle me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: What did Ashley Smith do right to save her own life? Well, Kyra, you're going to be talking to a former hostage negotiator up next.
PHILLIPS: And later on LIVE FROM, one "American Idol" contestant says ciao, leaving lots of girls across the nation singing the blues.
LIN: Oh!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SMITH: He asked me what I thought he should do, and I said, "I think you should turn yourself in. If you don't turn yourself in," is what I said, "if you don't turn yourself in, lots more people are going to get hurt."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: Ashley Smith is being called a hero. She kept her cool, developed a friendship, and even talked about God during her ordeal with Brian Nichols. Not only did she save her own life, but possibly the lives of many others.
So what did Ashley Smith do right? I want to bring in Howard Robertson, a former spot commander and hostage negotiator from the New Orleans Police Department. He joins us live now from Metarie (ph) Louisiana.
Good to see you, Howard.
HOWARD ROBERTSON, FORMER HOSTAGE NEGOTIATOR: Hey, Kyra, good morning.
PHILLIPS: Well, I think you said it perfectly when I talked to you earlier today is we should definitely focus on what she did right. Are you surprised that Brian Nichols listened to her when she said, finally, after their hours together to turn himself in?
ROBERTSON: No. You know the power of a woman is strong, so no. You know, but the most important thing for us to take away from here is to actually look at what she did right and so that others can learn from that. If they're ever in the same situation, maybe they can prevent someone from being harmed.
PHILLIPS: All right. Now I remember living in New Orleans, and you were SWAT commander. And I remember for the first time observing you and your men as you handled a hostage situation. And you started with the negotiations, and ended up bringing out the guy alive and the woman he was holding hostage.
ROBERTSON: Correct.
PHILLIPS: I want to go through, you know, what I learned that day and what you carried on with your hostage negotiators. And that was No. 1 to deescalate the threat. And Ashley Smith did this. How did she do it?
ROBERTSON: Well, Ashley didn't panic. She didn't scream. She went inside the apartment. She didn't fight him right away. She waited for an opportunity to use her strength. And her strength was her brains, not brawn.
And she used her strength the whole time to talk to him, to make him calm, to take away the fear.
You know, when a guy first approaches you, he's expecting resistance. She took that away, deescalating things, which makes him calm and gets him to start talking, which is so very important.
PHILLIPS: And then she began to personalize everything.
ROBERTSON: Right.
PHILLIPS: All right. What did she do that was so on the money here?
ROBERTSON: You know, it's harder to hurt someone when you know that person. So the more you make that hostage taker know you as an individual. The first thing we teach a hostage negotiator is introduce yourself. Hi, I'm Howard Robertson, I'm here to help you get out.
So she starts talking about her family. She starts talking about how she had lost her husband in 2001 due to a violent crime, and kind of talked about some of the things she had to go through and she's still going through.
If you look at her interviews, watch when she talks about her daughter. You'll see her start to cry. You see the sincerity in her voice. The hostage taker has to see that also.
And she said, "If you kill me, my daughter goes without a mommy or a daddy." Bringing that in, too. She showed family photos of her and her family to say, "Look, I'm a real person. I have a family. If you take my life you're affecting not only me but the life of my daughter." Very, very powerful stuff.
PHILLIPS: Well, that's interesting because she, obviously, explained her purpose in life, why she needed to be around.
ROBERTSON: Right.
PHILLIPS: We talk about the fact that she read "Purpose-Driven Life," that book to him.
ROBERTSON: Correct.
PHILLIPS: And talked about the Bible. But she did something interesting and gave him purpose. She said to him, "You need to stay alive," which is fascinating.
ROBERTSON: Well, you know, every single person wants to live. No matter what the situation is right there. The goal of the hostage negotiator is to make that person realize that there's a tomorrow. If you get past today there's a tomorrow, and things work out.
So what she did was, you know, she told him, "Your purpose in life may be to go to prison, and it may be to teach other prisoners about God and the power of God and how God can change your life." So she basically told him, "You do not have to die. No one else has to get hurt. And you can have a life past today."
Very powerful stuff. It just shows her strength, her belief in God, and her belief in that her survival and her purpose for being there. She was an angel that day, no matter what you say. That day she saved a life.
PHILLIPS: And she didn't lie to him either, which is huge, because as soon as a bad guy sees that you're lying to them, then all trust is lost.
ROBERTSON: Well, you know, we always taught never to lie during a hostage negotiation. Now, that's because once the -- once the hostage taker knows you're lying to them, you've broke off all trust and you've broke off communications.
She talked to him as a friend, and she said, "Look, if you try to get away, other people are going to die, and you're going to die." And she said, "I don't want you to die."
She also said that, "If you give up, you're going to jail." I mean that's the kind of things you want to tell the truth. Let them know reality, don't lie. But she talked to him as if she was a friend, giving a friend advice and good advice, which resulted in no one being hurt. That's the most important thing. No one else died. No other injuries occurred.
PHILLIPS: Retired Major Harry Robertson, I wish you were still on the force, because you said you'd hire this woman and she'd probably be a pretty amazing negotiator.
ROBERTSON: Look, we could use her as an instructor at the academy.
PHILLIPS: There you go. All right. You're going to be getting a call. Howard Robertson, thank you so much.
ROBERTSON: Thanks, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right.
LIN: Kyra, we want to show folks a live picture now of the body of David Wilhelm, the federal immigration and customs agent, being transported back to his hometown of Salisbury, North Carolina.
And, though it's hard to tell from the shot, you can take a look at the people on route, paying tribute to this federal agent, who is believed to be gunned down in a home that he and his wife were building. He was doing some tile work on that house when authorities believed that Brian Nichols burst in, broke in, and stole the agent's truck.
Wilhelm's wife of six years, Candy, said that her husband was a man with a strong work ethic. He will be missed.
In the meantime a check of the markets is straight ahead. Plus, is it sneaky business? The world's largest retailer finds a new way around a town ordinance.
And one ooneonne (ph) "American Idol" wannabe gets a second chance in the spotlight. That story next on LIVE FROM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Well, the world's biggest retailer has found a novel way to get around the law.
LIN: That sounds terrible. Anyway, let's get clarification on that. Susan Lisovicz is live from the New York Stock Exchange for that story. Who are we talking about, Susan?
(STOCK REPORT)
PHILLIPS: All right, Susan.
LIN: Thanks very much, Susan.
Kyra, we just got something in here that a superior court judge ruled Monday that California's law limiting marriage to a man and a woman is unconstitutional. So more developments on that front. You might recall last summer, the summer of love in San Francisco, where folks were going out there and getting married.
PHILLIPS: And a lot of criticism, too, with regard to those in charge of leading that. You and I are from California, and we know this is not going to be an ending issue.
LIN: No.
PHILLIPS: This is always something talked about in the Superior Court, as well as other forms of lower court.
LIN: All right. Not over yet.
PHILLIPS: That wraps up this Monday edition of LIVE FROM.
LIN: And we're going to take you through the next hour of political headlines on "INSIDE POLITICS." Candy Crowley there today.
Hi there, Candy.
CANDY CROWLEY, HOST, "INSIDE POLITICS": Hi. Thanks so much, Kyra and Carol.
The suspect in the killing of a judge and three others in Atlanta is behind bars. Our Bill Schneider will take a look at the relationship between violent events and American public opinions on the death penalty and gun control. Is there a cause and effect?
One of the president's closest advisers takes on a new assignment in Washington. Our John King looks at the return of the woman they call Bush's alter ego.
"INSIDE POLITICS" begins in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired March 14, 2005 - 14:57 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: "Now in the News," three murder warrants are filed against Brian Nichols, suspected in the Atlanta courtroom killings and the death of a federal agent. Atlanta police chief Richard Pennington says that Nichols will probably remain locked up at the Atlanta Federal Penitentiary until his arraignment. We're going to bring you up to date in a live report just moments from now.
With world oil prices near record highs, Saudi Arabia is calling for a two percent increase in daily production. That led to an immediate easing of prices for crude, which later rose. Other OPEC nations, such as Iran, insist that oil output should stay the same. An official OPEC meeting begins in Wednesday in Tehran, Iran's capital city.
A political battle in Vermont. The fight over Howard Dean's records as governor goes to the state supreme court. Dean wants the records to remain sealed for ten years. The state is appealing a ruling that the records are presumed to be open. Dean is now the newly-elected chairman of the Democratic National Committee.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: First the Atlanta killing spree and suspect Brian Nichols. Today, a mistrial declared in Nichols' rape trial, which he threw into chaos Friday by allegedly shooting the judge and the court reporter. Also today, the U.S. Attorney drops a federal charge against Nichols to pave the way for local officials to file four counts of murder. We are going to start at the scene where it began Friday.
CNN's Kimberly Osias outside Fulton Superior Court in Atlanta. Kimberly, can you give us an idea of what the mood was there today?
OSIAS: Well, Carol, obviously people are back to work and it is business as usual, as can be expected given, of course, the grisly shootings that occurred here Friday morning. I spoke to several deputies a little while ago, and they said they are on the job, but that is with a heavy heart because they knew these people intimately. For them, it was not just an incredibly riveting news story, it was a personal story, as well. These individuals were very well-known in legal circles, well-known to their colleagues and to many people in the Atlanta community as well. There was a private service here. The chaplain met with lot of court workers. There will be a public memorial service tomorrow here at noon honoring those four victims.
The man accused and the man believed to be behind, 33-year-old Brian Nichols, is in the federal penitentiary. The federal charge, the firearm charge that essentially held him has been dropped in order to give state officials and prosecutors the first crack, really, at Mr. Nichols. They are developing their case right now, but, obviously, this is a story that has touched so many people.
And perhaps he never may have been arrested had it not been for the heroicism and bravery of the young 26-year-old hostage, Ashley Smith. Amazing, amazing testimony and story from her, Carol.
I know many people have been incredibly moved and engrossed watching her speak, how she spent almost eight hours with Mr. Nichols, really reading Bible verses.
I was over at that apartment complex in Gwinett (ph) yesterday, speaking to her neighbors that said basically she had just moved into the area almost a week ago. She is a young mother, a widow, of a 5- year-old daughter. Incredibly, incredibly moving tale of her.
There was a $60,000 reward placed on anybody that could give a tip about Mr. Nichols' whereabouts. Whether or not she will receive it we still don't know, but certainly, certainly well deserving of that, Carol.
LIN: You bet. All right. Thanks very much, Kimberly, with the big picture.
We also want to tell you that a law enforcement official confirms that court surveillance tapes have been confiscated now as evidence. According to the "Atlanta Journal-Constitution," Nichols' initial attack on a deputy sheriff was captured live by a camera, but went unnoticed in a court security center.
Also being reviewed in the case, how Atlanta police spent hours in search of a purported getaway car that had never actually left a downtown parking lot. Atlanta's police chief concedes his force made a mistake on that one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF RICHARD PENNINGTON, ATLANTA POLICE DEPARTMENT: I'm in the process of looking at what we did right and what we did wrong, and primarily one area that I'm really focused on is that automobile being parked, that Honda being parked in the garage.
I know that there was chaos that day. A lot of things were going on. But -- and information that we received that Brian Nichols actually drove out of that garage, but, you know, I think we made a mistake by not thoroughly covering that garage. And I want to find out why it occurred and why it happened and so we don't make that mistake again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: Chief Pennington told us the federal government, the state of Georgia, Fulton County and the city of Atlanta have formed a task force now to improve court security. PHILLIPS: The body of agent David Wilhelm is being returned to his hometown in North Carolina. Wilhelm had worked for the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agency for 18 years. The 40-year- old is remembered as a good investigator with an easy-going personality.
Wilhelm was believed to be working on his house when he was allegedly shot and killed by Brian Nichols.
And now the one who got away, Ashley Smith has already hired an Atlanta law firm to help her sort through the inevitable movie and book offers. And no wonder: this is a woman with a spell-binding story of being held captive by multiple murder suspect Brian Nichols.
And she relied on her Christian faith and on a strength born of personal loss, the violent death of her husband. Ashley Smith didn't panic. She just talked. And at the end of a seven-hour ordeal she had not only saved her own life but convinced Nichols to surrender without a struggle.
Interviewed today by our affiliate, WJBF in Augusta, Georgia, Ashley Smith's grandparents are grateful and relieved, but not all are surprised she lived to tell this tale.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She told us six years ago, Papa, Mama believe me, I'm going to do something that's going to make you proud of me.
ANN MACHOVECH, ASHLEY SMITH'S GRANDMOTHER: One day you'll be proud of me. That was this weekend.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's all the lord. It's amazing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Smith says that she won Nichols' trust and that may have saved her life.
Later this hour -- half hour, I'm going to talk with a former SWAT commander and hostage negotiator for the New Orleans Police Department. We're going to get his take on all this.
And be sure to stay with CNN for all the developments in this case and join Aaron Brown tonight at 10 eastern. He'll take a closer look inside the manhunt for Brian Nichols on "NEWSNIGHT."
LIN: All right. Now we want to move on to the murders of an Illinois judge's family. Did authorities track the suspect six years ago?
Well, former state officials tell the Associated Press they investigated Bart Ross back in 1999 after he sent threatening letters aimed at government and a judiciary. Officials say there was no sign he was violent. Now police say Ross shot himself at a traffic stop last week. They later found a note in which he implicated himself in the murders of Judge Joan Lefkow's husband and mother. That's prompted a lot of coverage about safety for judges and in courtrooms across the country.
PHILLIPS: We've got more news now across America.
Doctors say three people hospitalized after the Milwaukee area hotel blood bath should fully recover. A fourth victim was already released. Seven people were killed when a man opened fire during a church service Saturday. He then turned the gun on himself. Investigators say the gunman was on the verge of losing his job and was upset over a sermon.
The accuser is back on the stand in the Michael Jackson trial. The 15-year-old is being questioned by the defense. He testified that he told a school administrator nothing sexual happened between him and the pop star. This was Jackson's first court appearance since he showed up in pajamas last week.
And Scott Peterson's lawyers are making an 11th-hour pitch for a new trial. Peterson is to be formally sentenced on Wednesday. A jury set his penalty as death for the murders of his wife and unborn son.
A post office in Hamilton, New Jersey, back in business for the first time since letters contaminated with anthrax were sorted there more than three years ago. Four postal workers were infected.
That building has been fumigated and renovated top to bottom and now has a state-of-the-art equipment to detect anthrax. The cost of the cleanup is estimated at $80 million to $100 million.
U.S. aircraft may be an attractive target for terrorists despite beefed up security since the September 11 attacks. Well, a new report by the Homeland Security Department and the FBI singles out noncommercial planes and helicopters, but the report adds al Qaeda appears to be keeping an eye on commercial aircraft as well, hoping to devise ways around expensive new security procedures.
Well, from Iraq to the United States. "TIME" magazine is reporting terrorist mastermind Abu Musab al-Zarqawi may be expanding his reach. Interrogations of a top Zarqawi aide have reportedly revealed that Zarqawi discussed possible attacks on so-called soft targets in America, including movie theaters, restaurants and malls. "TIME" says U.S. security agencies were notified of the potential threat in a bulletin that was sent out last week.
LIN: Let's take a look at some international news. In Lebanon, a political game of can you top this? Demonstrators for and against Syrian troops in Lebanon are both trying to stage the biggest turnout. Hundreds of thousands turned out today for an anti-Syria protest in Beirut.
CNN's senior international correspondent Brent Sadler reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BRENT SADLER, CNN SR. INTL. CORRESPONDENT: The politics of people power. Pouring on to the streets of downtown Beirut. Thousands gathering, at first, with masses on the way. Their volume expanding by the hour, answering the call for a counter protest, challenging Syria's dominant role in Lebanon, outnumbering a mass rally in Beirut last week, staged by Lebanon's Hezbollah organization, supporting Syria.
Like a giant human wave, though, the opposition swamped Martyr's Square, forming a sea of Lebanese flags.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The people today represented the vast majority of Lebanon who just wanted to say enough is enough. We want the message out. We want a new independent and free and unified Lebanon.
SADLER: They assembled around the final resting place of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri, assassinated in a massive bomb blast four weeks ago to the day.
In the raging political battle that's ensued, size matters. Hezbollah claimed half a million on the streets last week. Protest organizers here set their sights on a million strong protest march.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Lebanese people are sick and tired of the status quo, and they want true independence.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want our country to be free with no oppression, just freedom. And you want the truth. First of all you want the truth.
SADLER: The truth behind the Hariri killing, no less a mystery today than it was a month ago.
But Lebanese political sources close to the investigation claim Irish detectives suspect an organized cover-up. Many of these anti- Syrian demonstrators suspect Syria or its intelligence allies in Lebanon were somehow complicit or at least deliberately negligent on security matters.
(on camera) This powerful turnout is already claimed a triumph of free expression by the Christian, Muslim and Jewish (ph) political parties behind it. But the same religious groups are also represented in the rival camp, claiming they, too, are winning the numbers game in a bitterly contested standoff.
Brent Sadler, CNN, Beirut.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: CNN's Anderson Cooper will be reporting live from Lebanon this evening. For the latest on Lebanon and Syria, tune in to "ANDERSON COOPER 360" at 7 p.m. Eastern.
PHILLIPS: Other news around the world now, Palestinians protest in Ramallah. They say the separation barrier being built by Israel is a land grab that includes areas claimed by the Palestinians for a future state.
While hundreds protested outside the Palestinian government compound, U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan was inside meeting with Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas. Annan says that the U.N. will register property claims against Israel in connection with the barrier. The U.N.'s court has ruled the barrier is illegal.
Annan is on his first visit to the region in four years, promoting peace efforts.
And raising the stakes over Taiwan. China passes a law authorizing force if Taiwan moves towards independence. Beijing considers the island Chinese territory. Taiwan calls the new law a serious provocation. The White House also is criticizing that move.
LIN: We've been talking about this remarkable woman who spent several terrifying hours with Georgia's most wanted man.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ASHLEY SMITH, HOSTAGE SURVIVOR: He brought some masking tape and then an extension cord and a curtain in there, and I kind of thought he was going to strangle me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: What did Ashley Smith do right to save her own life? Well, Kyra, you're going to be talking to a former hostage negotiator up next.
PHILLIPS: And later on LIVE FROM, one "American Idol" contestant says ciao, leaving lots of girls across the nation singing the blues.
LIN: Oh!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SMITH: He asked me what I thought he should do, and I said, "I think you should turn yourself in. If you don't turn yourself in," is what I said, "if you don't turn yourself in, lots more people are going to get hurt."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: Ashley Smith is being called a hero. She kept her cool, developed a friendship, and even talked about God during her ordeal with Brian Nichols. Not only did she save her own life, but possibly the lives of many others.
So what did Ashley Smith do right? I want to bring in Howard Robertson, a former spot commander and hostage negotiator from the New Orleans Police Department. He joins us live now from Metarie (ph) Louisiana.
Good to see you, Howard.
HOWARD ROBERTSON, FORMER HOSTAGE NEGOTIATOR: Hey, Kyra, good morning.
PHILLIPS: Well, I think you said it perfectly when I talked to you earlier today is we should definitely focus on what she did right. Are you surprised that Brian Nichols listened to her when she said, finally, after their hours together to turn himself in?
ROBERTSON: No. You know the power of a woman is strong, so no. You know, but the most important thing for us to take away from here is to actually look at what she did right and so that others can learn from that. If they're ever in the same situation, maybe they can prevent someone from being harmed.
PHILLIPS: All right. Now I remember living in New Orleans, and you were SWAT commander. And I remember for the first time observing you and your men as you handled a hostage situation. And you started with the negotiations, and ended up bringing out the guy alive and the woman he was holding hostage.
ROBERTSON: Correct.
PHILLIPS: I want to go through, you know, what I learned that day and what you carried on with your hostage negotiators. And that was No. 1 to deescalate the threat. And Ashley Smith did this. How did she do it?
ROBERTSON: Well, Ashley didn't panic. She didn't scream. She went inside the apartment. She didn't fight him right away. She waited for an opportunity to use her strength. And her strength was her brains, not brawn.
And she used her strength the whole time to talk to him, to make him calm, to take away the fear.
You know, when a guy first approaches you, he's expecting resistance. She took that away, deescalating things, which makes him calm and gets him to start talking, which is so very important.
PHILLIPS: And then she began to personalize everything.
ROBERTSON: Right.
PHILLIPS: All right. What did she do that was so on the money here?
ROBERTSON: You know, it's harder to hurt someone when you know that person. So the more you make that hostage taker know you as an individual. The first thing we teach a hostage negotiator is introduce yourself. Hi, I'm Howard Robertson, I'm here to help you get out.
So she starts talking about her family. She starts talking about how she had lost her husband in 2001 due to a violent crime, and kind of talked about some of the things she had to go through and she's still going through.
If you look at her interviews, watch when she talks about her daughter. You'll see her start to cry. You see the sincerity in her voice. The hostage taker has to see that also.
And she said, "If you kill me, my daughter goes without a mommy or a daddy." Bringing that in, too. She showed family photos of her and her family to say, "Look, I'm a real person. I have a family. If you take my life you're affecting not only me but the life of my daughter." Very, very powerful stuff.
PHILLIPS: Well, that's interesting because she, obviously, explained her purpose in life, why she needed to be around.
ROBERTSON: Right.
PHILLIPS: We talk about the fact that she read "Purpose-Driven Life," that book to him.
ROBERTSON: Correct.
PHILLIPS: And talked about the Bible. But she did something interesting and gave him purpose. She said to him, "You need to stay alive," which is fascinating.
ROBERTSON: Well, you know, every single person wants to live. No matter what the situation is right there. The goal of the hostage negotiator is to make that person realize that there's a tomorrow. If you get past today there's a tomorrow, and things work out.
So what she did was, you know, she told him, "Your purpose in life may be to go to prison, and it may be to teach other prisoners about God and the power of God and how God can change your life." So she basically told him, "You do not have to die. No one else has to get hurt. And you can have a life past today."
Very powerful stuff. It just shows her strength, her belief in God, and her belief in that her survival and her purpose for being there. She was an angel that day, no matter what you say. That day she saved a life.
PHILLIPS: And she didn't lie to him either, which is huge, because as soon as a bad guy sees that you're lying to them, then all trust is lost.
ROBERTSON: Well, you know, we always taught never to lie during a hostage negotiation. Now, that's because once the -- once the hostage taker knows you're lying to them, you've broke off all trust and you've broke off communications.
She talked to him as a friend, and she said, "Look, if you try to get away, other people are going to die, and you're going to die." And she said, "I don't want you to die."
She also said that, "If you give up, you're going to jail." I mean that's the kind of things you want to tell the truth. Let them know reality, don't lie. But she talked to him as if she was a friend, giving a friend advice and good advice, which resulted in no one being hurt. That's the most important thing. No one else died. No other injuries occurred.
PHILLIPS: Retired Major Harry Robertson, I wish you were still on the force, because you said you'd hire this woman and she'd probably be a pretty amazing negotiator.
ROBERTSON: Look, we could use her as an instructor at the academy.
PHILLIPS: There you go. All right. You're going to be getting a call. Howard Robertson, thank you so much.
ROBERTSON: Thanks, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right.
LIN: Kyra, we want to show folks a live picture now of the body of David Wilhelm, the federal immigration and customs agent, being transported back to his hometown of Salisbury, North Carolina.
And, though it's hard to tell from the shot, you can take a look at the people on route, paying tribute to this federal agent, who is believed to be gunned down in a home that he and his wife were building. He was doing some tile work on that house when authorities believed that Brian Nichols burst in, broke in, and stole the agent's truck.
Wilhelm's wife of six years, Candy, said that her husband was a man with a strong work ethic. He will be missed.
In the meantime a check of the markets is straight ahead. Plus, is it sneaky business? The world's largest retailer finds a new way around a town ordinance.
And one ooneonne (ph) "American Idol" wannabe gets a second chance in the spotlight. That story next on LIVE FROM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Well, the world's biggest retailer has found a novel way to get around the law.
LIN: That sounds terrible. Anyway, let's get clarification on that. Susan Lisovicz is live from the New York Stock Exchange for that story. Who are we talking about, Susan?
(STOCK REPORT)
PHILLIPS: All right, Susan.
LIN: Thanks very much, Susan.
Kyra, we just got something in here that a superior court judge ruled Monday that California's law limiting marriage to a man and a woman is unconstitutional. So more developments on that front. You might recall last summer, the summer of love in San Francisco, where folks were going out there and getting married.
PHILLIPS: And a lot of criticism, too, with regard to those in charge of leading that. You and I are from California, and we know this is not going to be an ending issue.
LIN: No.
PHILLIPS: This is always something talked about in the Superior Court, as well as other forms of lower court.
LIN: All right. Not over yet.
PHILLIPS: That wraps up this Monday edition of LIVE FROM.
LIN: And we're going to take you through the next hour of political headlines on "INSIDE POLITICS." Candy Crowley there today.
Hi there, Candy.
CANDY CROWLEY, HOST, "INSIDE POLITICS": Hi. Thanks so much, Kyra and Carol.
The suspect in the killing of a judge and three others in Atlanta is behind bars. Our Bill Schneider will take a look at the relationship between violent events and American public opinions on the death penalty and gun control. Is there a cause and effect?
One of the president's closest advisers takes on a new assignment in Washington. Our John King looks at the return of the woman they call Bush's alter ego.
"INSIDE POLITICS" begins in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
