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Hostage's Story
Aired March 14, 2005 - 13:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ASHLEY SMITH, HELD HOSTAGE BY BRIAN NICHOLS: And then he took his hat off and he said, "Now do you know who I am?" And I said, "Yeah, I know who you are. Please don't hurt me. Just please don't hurt me."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Terrifying moments for Ashley Smith, a young single mom who police say survived several hour as a hostage of the man suspected in a shooting spree in an Atlanta courthouse. This hour you'll hear her amazing story in her own words in its entirety.
From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Kyra Phillips.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Carol Lin, in for Miles O'Brien. This hour of CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.
PHILLIPS: Revelations, clarifications, law and order, god and family. Details continue to surface in the wake of Atlanta's killing spree. Among them, security cameras on duty during the alleged courthouse rampage of Brian Nichols. Atlanta's D.A. promises a rather large indictment, including numerous counts of murder, assault and carjacking, but there's no decision yet on the death penalty.
LIN: Well, death is no stranger to Ashley Smith. And for seven terrible hours early Saturday, she feared it was back. The young widow and mother of one was allegedly a hostage in the apartment she just moved into. Though by the time the ordeal ended, her captor would think of her as an angel sent from god.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SMITH: It was about 2:00 in the morning. I left my -- I was leaving my apartment to go to the store. I noticed a blue truck in the parking lot with a man in it pulling up. And he parked in the parking space. And I really didn't think too much about it because I had just moved into that apartment, you know, two days prior.
So I thought maybe he was a neighbor coming home or something. So I left and went to the store. And I came back to my apartment about five minutes later and the truck was still there and he was still in it.
It was in a different parking space. It was actually behind the one where I had left. So I pulled back in there. And I kind of got a little worried then. I thought there's somebody still in that truck.
And so I got my key to my -- to my house ready. And I opened up my car door, and I got out and shut it. And I heard his shut right behind me.
I started walking to my door, and I felt really, really scared. So I put my key in the door, and I unlocked it, and I turned around, and he was right there.
And I started to scream. And he put a gun to my side and he said, "Don't scream. If you don't scream, I won't hurt you."
So I said, "All right, OK, I won't scream." We went in the house, and he shut and locked the door behind us.
He told me to go into the bathroom. So I went to the bathroom and he followed me into the bathroom, and he said, "Do you know who I am?" I said, "No," because he had a hat on.
And then he took his hat off, and he said, "Now do you know who I am?" And I said, "Yeah, I know who you are. Please don't hurt me. Just please don't hurt me. I have a 5-year-old little girl. Please don't hurt me."
He said, "I'm not going to hurt you, if you just do what I say." I said, "All right."
So he told me to get in the bathtub. So I got in the bathtub. And he said, "I really don't feel comfortable around here. I'm going to walk around your house for a few minutes just so I can get the feel of it." I said, "OK."
He said, "I don't want to hurt you. I don't want to hurt anybody else. So please don't do anything that's going to make me hurt you."
He said, "You know, somebody could have heard your scream already. And if they did, the police are on the way, and I'm going to have to hold you hostage, and I'm going to have to kill and probably myself and lots of other people. And I don't want that." And I said, "OK, I'll do what you say."
He looked around my house for a few minutes, I heard him opening up drawers and just going through my stuff. And he came back in and said, "I want to relax, and I don't feel comfortable with you right now. So I'm going to have to tie you up."
He brought some masking tape and an extension cord and a curtain in there, and I kind of thought he was going to strangle me. I was really kind of scared. But he told me to turn around and put my hands behind my back, and he wrapped my hands in a prayer -- in a praying position, so I did that. And he wrapped masking tape around my hands.
And then he told me to go into my bedroom, and I sat down on the bed, like he asked. And he wrapped my legs with masking tape and an extension cord. He also took a curtain and put it around my -- my stomach. And he asked me if I could get up, and I got up. He said, "Can you walk?" And I said, "No." So he picked me up and he took me to the bathroom. And he put me on a stool that I have in my bathroom.
He said he wanted to take a shower. So I said, "OK, you can take a shower." He said, "Well, I'm going to put a towel over your head so you don't have to watch me take a shower." So I said, "OK. All right."
He got in the shower, took a shower, and then he got out of the shower. And he had the guns laying on the counter. But I guess he really wasn't worried about me grabbing them because I was tied up.
He asked me if I had a T-shirt. I told him where to find one. So he got dressed.
He put on some clothes that I had in my house that were men's clothes. And then he came back in the bathroom. He said, "Can you get up?" So I got up.
He said, "Can you walk now?" And I said, "No, but I can hop." So I hopped to my bedroom and sat on the bed. And he cut the tape off of me, unwrapped the extension cord and the curtain.
I guess at that point, it kind of made me feel like he was comfortable enough with me that he untied me. So we went back in the bathroom. That's where he felt more comfortable, in the bathroom, away from the front of the house I guess. And we just talked.
I asked him if -- I told him that I was supposed to go see my little girl the next morning at 10:00, and I asked him if I could go see her. And he told me no.
My husband died four years ago, and I told him that if he hurt me, my little girl wouldn't have a mommy or a daddy. And she was expecting to see me the next morning. And if he didn't let me go, she would be really upset.
He still told me no. But I could -- I could kind of feel that he started to know who I was, and he said, "Maybe, maybe I'll let you go. Just maybe. We'll see how things go."
I went to my room, then I asked him if I could read. He said, "What do you want to read?" I said, "Well, I have a book in my room," so I went and got it. I got our bible, and I got a book called "The Purpose-Driven Life."
I turned it to the chapter that I was on that day, which was chapter 33, and I started to read the first paragraph of it. After I read it, he said, "Stop. Will you read it again?" I said, "Yes, I'll read it again."
So I read it again to him. It mentioned something about what you thought your purpose in life was, what were you -- what talents were you given, what gifts were you given to use. And I asked him what he thought. And he said, "I think it's to talk to people and tell them about you."
I basically just talked to him and tried to gain his trust. I didn't want him to hurt anybody else. He didn't want to hurt anybody else. He came into my apartment telling me that he was a soldier and that people -- that his people needed him for a job to do and he was doing it.
And I didn't want him to hurt anybody else. He didn't want to hurt anybody else. He just told me that he wanted a place to stay, to relax, to sit down, to watch TV, to eat some real food.
I talked to him about my family. I told him about things that had happened in my life. I asked him about his family.
I asked him why he did what he did. And his reason was because he was a soldier. I asked him why he chose me and why he chose Bridgewater Apartments, and he said he didn't know, just randomly.
But after we began to talk, and -- he said he thought that I was an angel sent from god, and that I was his sister, and he was my brother in Christ. And that he was lost and god led him right to me to tell him that he had hurt a lot of people.
And the families, the people, to let him know how they felt, because I had gone through it myself. He told me that he didn't -- he didn't want to hurt the agent that he hurt. He had begged and pleaded with him to -- to do things his way and he didn't, so he had to kill him.
He said that he didn't shoot the deputy, that he hit her, and that he hoped she lived. He showed me a picture of the agent that he did kill, and I tried to explain to him that he killed a 40-year-old man that was probably a father, a husband, a friend, and he really began to trust me, to feel my feelings.
He looked at pictures of my family. He asked me if he could look at them and hold them.
I really didn't keep track of time too much because I was really worried about just living. I didn't want to die. I didn't want him to hurt anybody else. And I really didn't want him to hurt himself or anyone else to hurt him.
He had done enough, and he really, honestly, when I looked at him, he looked like he didn't want to do it anymore.
He asked me what I thought he should do. And I said, "I think you should turn yourself in." "If you don't turn yourself in," is what I said, "if you don't turn yourself, lots more people are going to get hurt, and you're probably going to die."
And he said, "I don't want that to happen." He says, "Can I stay here for a few days? I just -- I want to eat some real food and watch some TV and sleep and just do normal things that normal people do." So of course I said, "Sure, you can stay here." I didn't want -- I wanted to gain his trust. Most of my time was spent talking to this man about my life and experiences in my life, things that had happened to me. He needed hope for his life. He told me that he was already dead.
He said, "Look at me. Look at my eyes. I am already dead."
And I said, "You are not dead. You are standing right in front of me. If you want to die, you can. It's your choice."
But after I started to read to him, he saw -- I guess he saw my faith in what I really believed in. And I told him I was a child forgotten (ph), that I wanted to do god's will.
I guess he began to want to -- that's what I think. He got to know me. I got to know him.
He talked about his family, how -- he was wondering what they were thinking. He said they probably don't know what to think.
We watched the news. And he looked at the TV, and he just said, "I cannot believe that's me on there."
About 5:30, 6:00, well, 6:00, 6:30, he said, "I need to make a move." I said, "OK, a move?" He said, "I need to get rid of this car before daylight, this truck." I said, "OK."
I knew that if I didn't agree to go with him, follow him to get the truck or take the truck, then one thing -- or two things. He would kill me right then and say, all right, well, if you're not going to help me, then I don't need you anymore, or the police would never find him, or it would take longer and someone else would get hurt. And I was trying to avoid that. So I went.
And he said -- I said, "Can I take my cell phone?" And he said, "Do you want to? I said, "Yeah." And I'm thinking, well, I might call the police then, and I might not. So I took it anyway.
He didn't take any guns with him. The guns were laying around the house. Pretty much after he untied me, they were just laying around the house.
And at one point he said, "You know, I'd rather you shoot -- the guns are laying in there. I'd rather you shoot me than them." I said, "I don't want anyone else to die, not even you."
So we went to take the truck, and I was behind him, following him. And I thought about calling the police, and I thought, he's about to be in the car with me right now, so I can call the police. And when he gets in the car, then they can surround me and him together and I could possibly get hurt, or we can go back to my house. And I really felt deep down inside that he was going to let me see my little girl.
And I said -- then when I leave, he can be there by himself. Well, he finally agreed to let me go see my daughter and to leave at 9:00, 9:30. And I really believed that he was going to. From the time he walked into my house until we were taking that truck, he was a totally different person to me. I felt very threatened, scared. I felt like he was going to kill me when I first -- when he first put the gun to my side. But when I followed him to take the truck, I felt like he was going to -- he was really going to turn himself in.
So he took the truck. He got in the car. And I said, "Are you ready now?" And he said, "Give me a few days please."
I said, "Come on, you've got to turn yourself in now." I didn't feel like he might -- I felt like he might change his mind, that he might not want to turn himself in the next day or a few days after that, and that if he did feel that way, then he would need money. And the only way he could get money was if he hurt somebody and took it from them.
So we went back to my house. And we got in the house, and he was hungry.
So I cooked him breakfast. He was overwhelmed with, "Wow!" He said, "Real butter, pancakes?" And I just talked with him a little more. Just about -- about -- we pretty much talked about god, mainly, and what his reason was, why he made it out of there.
I said, "Do you believe in miracles? Because if you don't believe in miracles, you're here for a reason. You're here in my apartment for some reason."
"You got out of that courthouse with police everywhere. And you don't think that's a miracle? You don't think you're supposed to be sitting here right in front of me, listening to me tell you, you know, your reason here?"
I said, "You know, your miracle could be that you need to be -- you need to be caught for this. You need to go to prison and you need to share the word of god with all the prisoners there."
Well, 9:00 came. He said, "What time do you have to leave?" I said, "I need to be there at 10:00, so I need to leave about 9:30."
So I sat down and talked to him a little bit more. He put the guns under the bed. Like you know, I'm done, I'm not going to mess around with you anymore.
So he gave me some money before I was about to leave. It was kind of like he knew. I said, "You might need this money." He said, "No, I don't need it. I'm going to be here for the next few days."
I basically said, "You keep the money." And he said, "No, I don't need it."
He asked me if there was anything I could do or he could do for me before I left, or while I was gone. He says, "Is there anything I can do while you're gone?" I know he was probably hoping deep down that I was going to come back, but I think he knew that I was going to do what I had to do. And I had to turn him in. And I gave him -- I asked him several times, you know, "Come on, just go with me."
He said, "I'll go with you in a few days." But when he asked me, "Is there anything I can do while you're gone, like hang your curtains or something?" I said, "Yeah, if you want to."
He just wanted some normalness to his life right then. And I think he realized all this -- all this that I've been through, this is not me. I don't know. That's my opinion of what he -- but I left my house at 9:30.
And I got in the car, and I immediately called 911 and told them that he was there. And she asked me where I was. I said, "I'm on my way to see my daughter."
I felt glad to just really be on my way to see my daughter. She said, "You've got to turn around and go to the office." So that's what I did.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: And so she did. What would you have done if you were in the same situation? At the top of the next hour, Kyra is going to be talking with a former hostage negotiator about the specific things Ashley Smith did right to help herself out of that situation.
And straight ahead in this hour, the man accused of plotting to assassinate President Bush goes to court. We are going to have details.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Well, you just saw -- you just saw the remarkable story of Ashley Smith and her hours with Brian Nichols and how she was able to extricate herself and call 911. Well, just today, our affiliate, WJBF, in Augusta, Georgia, got an interview with her grandparents, Dick and Ann McCovick, and this is what they had to say about this remarkable young woman.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How are you dealing with this?
DICK MACHOVEC, FMR. HOSTAGE'S GRANDFATHER: Well, we put a lot of faith in Christ, lord Jesus. And we taught that to all our grandchildren, every one of them from when they were small.
Oh, yes, Ashley went the ways of the world for a while. But when it was needed, she hit a homerun for Christ.
If this woman was there, she would have done the same thing. Because Ashley just loves her and tries to do everything just like her. So that's how we do it. We're a strong family. And these families that are worried about their kids, just keep praying for them. Because if they really need it, they will come around. They will come around.
We stick up for each other. We chastise each other when things go wrong.
Oh, boy, do we.
ANNE MACHOVEC, FMR. HOSTAGE'S GRANDMOTHER: We stick up for each other. We chastise each other when things go wrong.
D. MACHOVEC: Oh boy do we.
A. MACHOVEC: But then we're just very close. A close family. We love all of us.
When we get together, there's about 20, 22 of us, and we love to get together on every occasion that we can. And we just all enjoy ourselves and enjoy each other so much. And we do for each other, take each other's children and give the others a vacation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: God saved her life? I mean...
D. MACHOVEC: Well, yes.
A. MACHOVEC: For her little girl.
D. MACHOVEC: She said that -- she told us this years ago. She says, "Papa and mama, believe me, I'm going to do something that's going to make you proud of me."
A. MACHOVEC: "One day you'll be proud of me." That was this weekend.
D. MACHOVEC: It's all the lord. It is amazing.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: That -- those two people, the grandparents of Ashley Smith, who are so proud of this young woman, 26 years old, her husband stabbed to death four years ago. He died in her arms. And for all that tragedy, this 26-year-old woman said it came to this moment that she felt that it was her calling to convince Brian Nichols to surrender and was able, after seven hours of gaining his trust, to be able to leave her apartment and call 911, which resulted in his arrest.
A remarkable story. We are going to have much more on this as well and try to find out more about this huge family. They said 22 members of this family.
In the meantime, we've got other business news of the day. Susan Lisovicz checking things on Wall Street.
(STOCK MARKET REPORT)
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Aired March 14, 2005 - 13:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ASHLEY SMITH, HELD HOSTAGE BY BRIAN NICHOLS: And then he took his hat off and he said, "Now do you know who I am?" And I said, "Yeah, I know who you are. Please don't hurt me. Just please don't hurt me."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Terrifying moments for Ashley Smith, a young single mom who police say survived several hour as a hostage of the man suspected in a shooting spree in an Atlanta courthouse. This hour you'll hear her amazing story in her own words in its entirety.
From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Kyra Phillips.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Carol Lin, in for Miles O'Brien. This hour of CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.
PHILLIPS: Revelations, clarifications, law and order, god and family. Details continue to surface in the wake of Atlanta's killing spree. Among them, security cameras on duty during the alleged courthouse rampage of Brian Nichols. Atlanta's D.A. promises a rather large indictment, including numerous counts of murder, assault and carjacking, but there's no decision yet on the death penalty.
LIN: Well, death is no stranger to Ashley Smith. And for seven terrible hours early Saturday, she feared it was back. The young widow and mother of one was allegedly a hostage in the apartment she just moved into. Though by the time the ordeal ended, her captor would think of her as an angel sent from god.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SMITH: It was about 2:00 in the morning. I left my -- I was leaving my apartment to go to the store. I noticed a blue truck in the parking lot with a man in it pulling up. And he parked in the parking space. And I really didn't think too much about it because I had just moved into that apartment, you know, two days prior.
So I thought maybe he was a neighbor coming home or something. So I left and went to the store. And I came back to my apartment about five minutes later and the truck was still there and he was still in it.
It was in a different parking space. It was actually behind the one where I had left. So I pulled back in there. And I kind of got a little worried then. I thought there's somebody still in that truck.
And so I got my key to my -- to my house ready. And I opened up my car door, and I got out and shut it. And I heard his shut right behind me.
I started walking to my door, and I felt really, really scared. So I put my key in the door, and I unlocked it, and I turned around, and he was right there.
And I started to scream. And he put a gun to my side and he said, "Don't scream. If you don't scream, I won't hurt you."
So I said, "All right, OK, I won't scream." We went in the house, and he shut and locked the door behind us.
He told me to go into the bathroom. So I went to the bathroom and he followed me into the bathroom, and he said, "Do you know who I am?" I said, "No," because he had a hat on.
And then he took his hat off, and he said, "Now do you know who I am?" And I said, "Yeah, I know who you are. Please don't hurt me. Just please don't hurt me. I have a 5-year-old little girl. Please don't hurt me."
He said, "I'm not going to hurt you, if you just do what I say." I said, "All right."
So he told me to get in the bathtub. So I got in the bathtub. And he said, "I really don't feel comfortable around here. I'm going to walk around your house for a few minutes just so I can get the feel of it." I said, "OK."
He said, "I don't want to hurt you. I don't want to hurt anybody else. So please don't do anything that's going to make me hurt you."
He said, "You know, somebody could have heard your scream already. And if they did, the police are on the way, and I'm going to have to hold you hostage, and I'm going to have to kill and probably myself and lots of other people. And I don't want that." And I said, "OK, I'll do what you say."
He looked around my house for a few minutes, I heard him opening up drawers and just going through my stuff. And he came back in and said, "I want to relax, and I don't feel comfortable with you right now. So I'm going to have to tie you up."
He brought some masking tape and an extension cord and a curtain in there, and I kind of thought he was going to strangle me. I was really kind of scared. But he told me to turn around and put my hands behind my back, and he wrapped my hands in a prayer -- in a praying position, so I did that. And he wrapped masking tape around my hands.
And then he told me to go into my bedroom, and I sat down on the bed, like he asked. And he wrapped my legs with masking tape and an extension cord. He also took a curtain and put it around my -- my stomach. And he asked me if I could get up, and I got up. He said, "Can you walk?" And I said, "No." So he picked me up and he took me to the bathroom. And he put me on a stool that I have in my bathroom.
He said he wanted to take a shower. So I said, "OK, you can take a shower." He said, "Well, I'm going to put a towel over your head so you don't have to watch me take a shower." So I said, "OK. All right."
He got in the shower, took a shower, and then he got out of the shower. And he had the guns laying on the counter. But I guess he really wasn't worried about me grabbing them because I was tied up.
He asked me if I had a T-shirt. I told him where to find one. So he got dressed.
He put on some clothes that I had in my house that were men's clothes. And then he came back in the bathroom. He said, "Can you get up?" So I got up.
He said, "Can you walk now?" And I said, "No, but I can hop." So I hopped to my bedroom and sat on the bed. And he cut the tape off of me, unwrapped the extension cord and the curtain.
I guess at that point, it kind of made me feel like he was comfortable enough with me that he untied me. So we went back in the bathroom. That's where he felt more comfortable, in the bathroom, away from the front of the house I guess. And we just talked.
I asked him if -- I told him that I was supposed to go see my little girl the next morning at 10:00, and I asked him if I could go see her. And he told me no.
My husband died four years ago, and I told him that if he hurt me, my little girl wouldn't have a mommy or a daddy. And she was expecting to see me the next morning. And if he didn't let me go, she would be really upset.
He still told me no. But I could -- I could kind of feel that he started to know who I was, and he said, "Maybe, maybe I'll let you go. Just maybe. We'll see how things go."
I went to my room, then I asked him if I could read. He said, "What do you want to read?" I said, "Well, I have a book in my room," so I went and got it. I got our bible, and I got a book called "The Purpose-Driven Life."
I turned it to the chapter that I was on that day, which was chapter 33, and I started to read the first paragraph of it. After I read it, he said, "Stop. Will you read it again?" I said, "Yes, I'll read it again."
So I read it again to him. It mentioned something about what you thought your purpose in life was, what were you -- what talents were you given, what gifts were you given to use. And I asked him what he thought. And he said, "I think it's to talk to people and tell them about you."
I basically just talked to him and tried to gain his trust. I didn't want him to hurt anybody else. He didn't want to hurt anybody else. He came into my apartment telling me that he was a soldier and that people -- that his people needed him for a job to do and he was doing it.
And I didn't want him to hurt anybody else. He didn't want to hurt anybody else. He just told me that he wanted a place to stay, to relax, to sit down, to watch TV, to eat some real food.
I talked to him about my family. I told him about things that had happened in my life. I asked him about his family.
I asked him why he did what he did. And his reason was because he was a soldier. I asked him why he chose me and why he chose Bridgewater Apartments, and he said he didn't know, just randomly.
But after we began to talk, and -- he said he thought that I was an angel sent from god, and that I was his sister, and he was my brother in Christ. And that he was lost and god led him right to me to tell him that he had hurt a lot of people.
And the families, the people, to let him know how they felt, because I had gone through it myself. He told me that he didn't -- he didn't want to hurt the agent that he hurt. He had begged and pleaded with him to -- to do things his way and he didn't, so he had to kill him.
He said that he didn't shoot the deputy, that he hit her, and that he hoped she lived. He showed me a picture of the agent that he did kill, and I tried to explain to him that he killed a 40-year-old man that was probably a father, a husband, a friend, and he really began to trust me, to feel my feelings.
He looked at pictures of my family. He asked me if he could look at them and hold them.
I really didn't keep track of time too much because I was really worried about just living. I didn't want to die. I didn't want him to hurt anybody else. And I really didn't want him to hurt himself or anyone else to hurt him.
He had done enough, and he really, honestly, when I looked at him, he looked like he didn't want to do it anymore.
He asked me what I thought he should do. And I said, "I think you should turn yourself in." "If you don't turn yourself in," is what I said, "if you don't turn yourself, lots more people are going to get hurt, and you're probably going to die."
And he said, "I don't want that to happen." He says, "Can I stay here for a few days? I just -- I want to eat some real food and watch some TV and sleep and just do normal things that normal people do." So of course I said, "Sure, you can stay here." I didn't want -- I wanted to gain his trust. Most of my time was spent talking to this man about my life and experiences in my life, things that had happened to me. He needed hope for his life. He told me that he was already dead.
He said, "Look at me. Look at my eyes. I am already dead."
And I said, "You are not dead. You are standing right in front of me. If you want to die, you can. It's your choice."
But after I started to read to him, he saw -- I guess he saw my faith in what I really believed in. And I told him I was a child forgotten (ph), that I wanted to do god's will.
I guess he began to want to -- that's what I think. He got to know me. I got to know him.
He talked about his family, how -- he was wondering what they were thinking. He said they probably don't know what to think.
We watched the news. And he looked at the TV, and he just said, "I cannot believe that's me on there."
About 5:30, 6:00, well, 6:00, 6:30, he said, "I need to make a move." I said, "OK, a move?" He said, "I need to get rid of this car before daylight, this truck." I said, "OK."
I knew that if I didn't agree to go with him, follow him to get the truck or take the truck, then one thing -- or two things. He would kill me right then and say, all right, well, if you're not going to help me, then I don't need you anymore, or the police would never find him, or it would take longer and someone else would get hurt. And I was trying to avoid that. So I went.
And he said -- I said, "Can I take my cell phone?" And he said, "Do you want to? I said, "Yeah." And I'm thinking, well, I might call the police then, and I might not. So I took it anyway.
He didn't take any guns with him. The guns were laying around the house. Pretty much after he untied me, they were just laying around the house.
And at one point he said, "You know, I'd rather you shoot -- the guns are laying in there. I'd rather you shoot me than them." I said, "I don't want anyone else to die, not even you."
So we went to take the truck, and I was behind him, following him. And I thought about calling the police, and I thought, he's about to be in the car with me right now, so I can call the police. And when he gets in the car, then they can surround me and him together and I could possibly get hurt, or we can go back to my house. And I really felt deep down inside that he was going to let me see my little girl.
And I said -- then when I leave, he can be there by himself. Well, he finally agreed to let me go see my daughter and to leave at 9:00, 9:30. And I really believed that he was going to. From the time he walked into my house until we were taking that truck, he was a totally different person to me. I felt very threatened, scared. I felt like he was going to kill me when I first -- when he first put the gun to my side. But when I followed him to take the truck, I felt like he was going to -- he was really going to turn himself in.
So he took the truck. He got in the car. And I said, "Are you ready now?" And he said, "Give me a few days please."
I said, "Come on, you've got to turn yourself in now." I didn't feel like he might -- I felt like he might change his mind, that he might not want to turn himself in the next day or a few days after that, and that if he did feel that way, then he would need money. And the only way he could get money was if he hurt somebody and took it from them.
So we went back to my house. And we got in the house, and he was hungry.
So I cooked him breakfast. He was overwhelmed with, "Wow!" He said, "Real butter, pancakes?" And I just talked with him a little more. Just about -- about -- we pretty much talked about god, mainly, and what his reason was, why he made it out of there.
I said, "Do you believe in miracles? Because if you don't believe in miracles, you're here for a reason. You're here in my apartment for some reason."
"You got out of that courthouse with police everywhere. And you don't think that's a miracle? You don't think you're supposed to be sitting here right in front of me, listening to me tell you, you know, your reason here?"
I said, "You know, your miracle could be that you need to be -- you need to be caught for this. You need to go to prison and you need to share the word of god with all the prisoners there."
Well, 9:00 came. He said, "What time do you have to leave?" I said, "I need to be there at 10:00, so I need to leave about 9:30."
So I sat down and talked to him a little bit more. He put the guns under the bed. Like you know, I'm done, I'm not going to mess around with you anymore.
So he gave me some money before I was about to leave. It was kind of like he knew. I said, "You might need this money." He said, "No, I don't need it. I'm going to be here for the next few days."
I basically said, "You keep the money." And he said, "No, I don't need it."
He asked me if there was anything I could do or he could do for me before I left, or while I was gone. He says, "Is there anything I can do while you're gone?" I know he was probably hoping deep down that I was going to come back, but I think he knew that I was going to do what I had to do. And I had to turn him in. And I gave him -- I asked him several times, you know, "Come on, just go with me."
He said, "I'll go with you in a few days." But when he asked me, "Is there anything I can do while you're gone, like hang your curtains or something?" I said, "Yeah, if you want to."
He just wanted some normalness to his life right then. And I think he realized all this -- all this that I've been through, this is not me. I don't know. That's my opinion of what he -- but I left my house at 9:30.
And I got in the car, and I immediately called 911 and told them that he was there. And she asked me where I was. I said, "I'm on my way to see my daughter."
I felt glad to just really be on my way to see my daughter. She said, "You've got to turn around and go to the office." So that's what I did.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: And so she did. What would you have done if you were in the same situation? At the top of the next hour, Kyra is going to be talking with a former hostage negotiator about the specific things Ashley Smith did right to help herself out of that situation.
And straight ahead in this hour, the man accused of plotting to assassinate President Bush goes to court. We are going to have details.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Well, you just saw -- you just saw the remarkable story of Ashley Smith and her hours with Brian Nichols and how she was able to extricate herself and call 911. Well, just today, our affiliate, WJBF, in Augusta, Georgia, got an interview with her grandparents, Dick and Ann McCovick, and this is what they had to say about this remarkable young woman.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How are you dealing with this?
DICK MACHOVEC, FMR. HOSTAGE'S GRANDFATHER: Well, we put a lot of faith in Christ, lord Jesus. And we taught that to all our grandchildren, every one of them from when they were small.
Oh, yes, Ashley went the ways of the world for a while. But when it was needed, she hit a homerun for Christ.
If this woman was there, she would have done the same thing. Because Ashley just loves her and tries to do everything just like her. So that's how we do it. We're a strong family. And these families that are worried about their kids, just keep praying for them. Because if they really need it, they will come around. They will come around.
We stick up for each other. We chastise each other when things go wrong.
Oh, boy, do we.
ANNE MACHOVEC, FMR. HOSTAGE'S GRANDMOTHER: We stick up for each other. We chastise each other when things go wrong.
D. MACHOVEC: Oh boy do we.
A. MACHOVEC: But then we're just very close. A close family. We love all of us.
When we get together, there's about 20, 22 of us, and we love to get together on every occasion that we can. And we just all enjoy ourselves and enjoy each other so much. And we do for each other, take each other's children and give the others a vacation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: God saved her life? I mean...
D. MACHOVEC: Well, yes.
A. MACHOVEC: For her little girl.
D. MACHOVEC: She said that -- she told us this years ago. She says, "Papa and mama, believe me, I'm going to do something that's going to make you proud of me."
A. MACHOVEC: "One day you'll be proud of me." That was this weekend.
D. MACHOVEC: It's all the lord. It is amazing.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: That -- those two people, the grandparents of Ashley Smith, who are so proud of this young woman, 26 years old, her husband stabbed to death four years ago. He died in her arms. And for all that tragedy, this 26-year-old woman said it came to this moment that she felt that it was her calling to convince Brian Nichols to surrender and was able, after seven hours of gaining his trust, to be able to leave her apartment and call 911, which resulted in his arrest.
A remarkable story. We are going to have much more on this as well and try to find out more about this huge family. They said 22 members of this family.
In the meantime, we've got other business news of the day. Susan Lisovicz checking things on Wall Street.
(STOCK MARKET REPORT)
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