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New Jersey Standoff; Interview With Bob Barr

Aired March 22, 2005 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: A portrait of a troubled and intolerant teenager is emerging in northern Minnesota. He's the one officials say gunned down nine people on an Indian reservation before killing himself.
CNN's Keith Oppenheim is in Red Lake, a community in utter shock and disbelief.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KEITH OPPENHEIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: At a news conference this afternoon, the tribal chairman, Floyd Jourdain Jr., said that these shootings have devastated the community here.

The special agent in charge from the FBI who spoke was Michael Tabman. And he gave this timeline, saying, yesterday afternoon, Jeffrey Weise, the assailant, age 16, went to his grandfather's home. He shot his grandfather, also shot his grandfather's companion, noting that his grandfather worked for the Tribal Police Department. Special Agent Tabman said that Mr. Weise took his grandfather's flak jacket, then drove to the high school, where he shot a security guard. Then he went down a hallway and he shot a schoolteacher and also killed a number of students at that point.

He returned some fire from police who accosted him. No police were hurt. But, after that exchange of fire, Special Agent Tabman said, is when the assailant then took a gun and shot himself in the head. There is apparently some videotape of Jeff Weise in the hallway, though that was not released by the FBI. They also did not speak to a motive in this case.

However, they did say that there are other guns involved, other than the .22-caliber weapon, saying there's a .40-caliber handgun and .12-gauge shotgun, which Jeff Weise took from his grandfather, weapons that were issued, apparently, by the Tribal Police Department.

In Red Lake, Minnesota, I'm Keith Oppenheim reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Well, we're in the fifth hour of a standoff between police in New Brunswick, New Jersey, and the man or men who allegedly are threatening to kill a 14-year-old girl.

CNN's Deborah Feyerick is there now right close to the house where this is taking place.

Deb, what do you know?

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, we're about a half a block way from the house where this is all happening.

A hostage negotiator was just moments ago using a bullhorn to try to communicate with the man who is holding that girl inside on the third floor. He was shielded by two SWAT team guys. And they were all sort of located behind a fence. We don't know whether in fact they made direct contact, but then they did move away to regroup and talk about what was going on.

Now, I did speak to a man who raced to the scene when he heard that a young girl had been taken hostage. He said his niece lives inside the building. Now, although it wasn't his niece who's being held, he said that police officers did play the 911 call that she made. And, apparently, she told police that she was in the bedroom, that she was handcuffed to the bed, and then apparently, at that moment the hostage, the gunmen -- we do believe that he has got a weapon -- came in, grabbed the phone from her, and threatened, saying that, if any police showed up, that he would kill the girl, he would kill the police, and he would also kill himself.

So, right now, we're on the scene, the SWAT team on scene as well. They're staging operations nearby that house. They're trying to make communication with the gunman inside, again, not known whether there is one or two men holding that young girl -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, Deb Feyerick in Brunswick, New Jersey, we'll continue to check in with you as that story develops.

meanwhile, the life and death family feud over Terri Schiavo's fate is now here in Atlanta. The 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals is the latest battleground in the legal war between her parents and her husband.

Our Miles O'Brien is there. He joins me now live with the latest -- Miles.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, Kyra, it was 9:15 this morning Eastern time when the Terri Schiavo saga, which really began 15 years ago, when her heart stopped and she lapsed into a coma and ultimately a persistent vegetative state, finally made its way here to downtown Atlanta and the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals, this following a whole complicated series of legal maneuvers spanning seven or eight years, mostly involving Florida state courts, but, because of some congressional action over the weekend, now involving the federal court system.

This morning, very early, a U.S. district court, federal court, in Tampa, Florida, refused to issue an injunctive relief, an emergency ruling, whatever you want to call it, which would force that feeding tube to be reinserted into Terri Schiavo. That tube was removed on Friday, as you well know by now.

We have here, though, very quickly, subsequent to that announcement from Tampa, the request for an appeal to that, a request for injunctive relief to preserve a meaningful appeal, is what it's called. This comes from Terri Schiavo's parents, who are waging this legal battle against her estranged husband, Michael Schiavo.

Just to summarize the point here: "As matters now stand, this court will be absolutely unable to effect a meaningful review of the petitioners' appeal" -- they being the petitioners -- "unless it grants emergency injunctive relief requiring that nutrition and hydration be immediately restored to Terri Schiavo for the very stark and simple reason that Terri may die at any time. If that happens, the appeal will become moot."

That is the narrow issue they're looking at right now, on this, whether there should be an emergency injunction to force that feeding tube in. A similar statement came in today to this court from the other side. Michael Schiavo's attorneys -- I have an excerpt I want to share with you on that which shows you how starkly on every matter these two sides are apart. Just reading from a portion of that: "There remains adequate time for this court to conduct an expedited and deliberate review of the appellants' claims and the appellees' responses, while maintaining the status quo."

Michael Schiavo and his attorneys essentially saying her death is not imminent. Terri Schiavo's death is not imminent. She has been off that feeding tube since Friday and she can persist for quite some time to allow the federal courts to consider the overall merits of the case. Legal scholars are saying that, generally speaking, there are no real solid grounds for this federal case to prevail on the behalf of the Schindlers.

Having said that, this whole issue of the injunction and ultimately the legal case and the merits of it, something we're watching very closely -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, Miles, thank you so much.

And before this case hit the federal courts, medical experts had testified for years about Terri Schiavo's condition and her chances of getting better. Experts selected by Schiavo's parents reached one set of conclusions. Those hired by her husband said something totally different. And the experts named by the courts have concluded Terri Schiavo has virtually no hope of recovery.

More on all now from CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In a medical case as high profile as Terri Schiavo, you would think the medical experts would have all the answers. But just by listening to them and reviewing statements they gave to the court, it's easy to see why a final answer is so complicated.

DR. WILLIAM HAMMESFAHR, NEUROLOGIST: I spent about 10 hours across about three months. And the woman is very aware of her surroundings. She's very aware. She's alert. She's not in a coma. She's not in PVS. GUPTA: PVS, persistent vegetative state. Dr. Hammesfahr was chosen by Terri Schiavo's parents to testify in court, his opinion very different from Dr. Ronald Cranford, chosen by Michael Schiavo, Terri's husband.

DR. RONALD CRANFORD, NEUROLOGIST: A vegetative state is a scary diagnosis. Unless you know what you're looking for, it looks like the patient is interacting. But Terri is not interacting.

GUPTA: Both of them are neurologists and their conclusions are based on diagnostic tests that are supposed to be objective. Yet, they tell different tales.

HAMMESFAHR: Her C.T. scan has maybe 75 percent of the brain tissue still left.

CRANFORD: I've seen her. There's no doubt in my mind whatsoever, she's in a permanent vegetative state. Her CAT scan shows extremely severe atrophy to the brain. And her EEG is flat. It doesn't show any electrical activity at all.

GUPTA: And, most importantly, their opinions about a possible recovery?

HAMMESFAHR: With proper therapy, she will have a tremendous improvement. I think, personally, she'll be able to walk eventually and she will be able to use at least one of her arms.

CRANFORD: There's no way. That's totally bogus.

GUPTA: Five doctors gave their medical opinions in an evidentiary hearing ordered by a Florida appellate court, two doctors chosen by each side and one court-appointed neurologist who was chosen by the judge. He declined a CNN interview, but told the court: "The preponderance of the data and my clinical examination reveal no evidence of awareness of self, environment or ability to interact with others. Mrs. Schiavo exhibits no evidence of language comprehension or expression. I would state that her chances of a meaningful neurological recovery to be virtually nonexistent."

His language leaves little room for doubt, unless you ask yet another neurologist. And so a medical choice, normally decided between doctors and a patient's loved ones, is fought out in the courts.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Dr. Sanjay Gupta with us now.

All right, EEG was flat. What does that mean?

GUPTA: He said that and I was a little surprised that he said that. I mean, that's a very clinical thing. When you say someone's EEG is flat, that means they are brain-dead. That's a really important term for transplant surgeons, for example, before they take someone's organs. Their brain is no longer working, but their body is, so you can take the organs. Terri is not brain dead. I think just about anybody that looks at her can tell that. What exactly the state she's in, I don't know. I've never examined her. But, from the video alone, I think you can say she's not brain-dead.

PHILLIPS: All right, the feeding tube has been out four days now. Assuming she's not dehydrated, what do you think is the physical status right now?

GUPTA: Well, you know, this is a tough question. I mean, I think she is dehydrated. It's been four days now.

PHILLIPS: She's got to be dehydrated by now.

GUPTA: She's got to be somewhat dehydrated. And she has proven, back in October of '03, that she can go at least 6 1/2 days without any sort of nutrition or I.V. fluids, because that's what happened back then, before the feeding tube was put back in.

Yes, the concern as a doctor is that her kidneys are not getting fluids. Her kidneys could suffer. She could possibly go into kidney failure if her -- if she doesn't get fluids.

PHILLIPS: Her organs could start shutting down.

GUPTA: Could start shutting down. And it possibly cause other problems in her body. That's ultimately what happens to someone who is not fed or given any kind of fluids.

PHILLIPS: Meanwhile, the twist in all this, and we really haven't talked a lot about it, is that you were saying, initially, what could have led to that heart attack in the first place was the fact that she was bulimic?

GUPTA: That's right. And a lot of people don't realize this. And it is sort of an irony in a way, a sad one, but the first thing that brought her to the hospital was, she not eating. She had a significant electrolyte imbalance.

That led her heart to fail. And, subsequently, she couldn't pump enough oxygenated blood to her brain. She essentially had a stroke of her entire brain. Think of it like that. And now, you know, 15 years later, after all that she's been through, it could sort of be the same situation. If she's not fed and gets no hydration, she could again have an electrolyte imbalance, because her kidneys aren't working. Her heart could fail and subsequently not get enough blood to her brain. That could kill her.

PHILLIPS: You can't help to wonder what was going on at the time when she had this eating disorder, what was going on in her mind, in her life at that time, and now 15 years later, it's a pretty bizarre twist.

GUPTA: It is. And, I mean, I don't know what to really make of that in any way. But I know a lot of people are asking, what sort of time frame are we talking about here?

When we talk about -- it's not the lack of nutrition ultimately that may cause her demise. It's really the lack of fluids. You need fluids much more than you need the calories. And who knows how long she could last like this. She's not normal in a certain sense. She's been very debilitated. She may not last as long as somebody else. People say two weeks. It could be 10 days. It could be three weeks. Who really knows?

PHILLIPS: Dr. Gupta, thank you.

GUPTA: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: Well, next on LIVE FROM, a ship runs aground. Don't miss the dramatic pictures of this rescue at sea. We've got it for you.

And stamps could get pricier. How much more? Find out later on LIVE FROM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(FINANCIAL UPDATE)

PHILLIPS: All right, coming up, dangerous weather across the South can only mean one thing. Time to check in with meteorologist Jacqui Jeras. And we'll do that next.

Also ahead, did Congress and the president make a mistake by getting involved in the Terri Schiavo case? We're going to talk about it with a former member of Congress.

More LIVE FROM right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: An update now on an Amber Alert that was issued after two children were abducted in Georgia. We can tell you now these two young children have been found. That Amber Alert was issued across Georgia and the Carolinas today after a man allegedly shot his ex- girlfriend's father and abducted her two children. We can tell you, the two kids are safe. We do not know the whereabouts of Terrance McDowell, the man who allegedly sexually assaulted his former girlfriend earlier this morning, forcing his way into the home at gunpoint and taking these two children.

The woman's 64-year-old father also shot in the head and chest. We'll keep you updated on the whereabouts of Terrance McDowell. Meanwhile, the two kids found safe and sound.

A team being trip turns topsy-turvy when a sailing ship hits a sandbar. The U.S. Coast Guard rescued all 20 people off the coast of California. One by one, crew members and students jumped into the chilly churning water wearing life vests. The National Society of Collegiate Scholars was using the boat for a team building trip.

(WEATHER UPDATE)

O'BRIEN: Fifteen years after Terri Schiavo's heart suddenly stopped and she lapsed into a coma, causing severe brain damage, and some seven years after her husband, Michael Schiavo, first petitioned a state court to remove the feeding tubes and other artificial life support from here, this complicated, emotional legal case has found it ways here to downtown Atlanta, the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals, where a three-judge panel is considering, among other things, whether it is urgent to place that feeding tube back in to Terri Schiavo. That tube was removed on Friday, as you well know.

And it was -- the whole case came here to, the federal jurisdiction, after the United States Congress got in the middle of things on Palm Sunday, essentially giving jurisdiction to federal courts on what has to this point been a state court matter. It's an interesting precedent for Congress.

And joining us to talk a little bit about it is former Congressman Bob Barr, joining us from Washington.

Congressman Barr, let's put it in perspective. There are laws that are written all the time with individuals in mind. This one stands apart, doesn't it?

BOB BARR, FORMER U.S. CONGRESSMAN: Well, it stands apart for several reasons, first of all, because it deals not with simply helping a particular individual through the immigration system, for example, which is what most so-called private bills have to do. But it helps one particular individual by changing the rules of federal jurisdiction, which, if not highly unusual, may be completely unprecedented.

I cannot recall ever having even read about something like this before.

O'BRIEN: Well, depending on where you sit on this, it is either irony or hypocrisy on the part of conservative Republican leaders of Congress to force this issue. These are, after all, the same leaders who use states' rights as a reason to stay out of any other number of issues that they'd rather not get involved in.

BARR: And I think therein lies perhaps the main political damage that the Republicans potentially face.

This makes it very, very clear to a lot of folks that, despite talk by the Republicans of federalism and states' rights and separation of powers and an independent judiciary, that, when push comes to shove, they don't practice what they preach. It also, I think, will set a very dangerous precedent, in that it gives those folks who might favor a very involved federal government the fuel to say next time a court renders a decision they don't like, well, let's just get Congress involved, like we did in the Schiavo case, and have them overturn what courts have already done.

O'BRIEN: Bob Barr, former congressman, weighing in on Congress' involvement in all of this. Sorry we don't have a little bit more time. We are out of time today. Thanks for your time. We appreciate it -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, Miles, see you back here tomorrow.

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Aired March 22, 2005 - 15:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: A portrait of a troubled and intolerant teenager is emerging in northern Minnesota. He's the one officials say gunned down nine people on an Indian reservation before killing himself.
CNN's Keith Oppenheim is in Red Lake, a community in utter shock and disbelief.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KEITH OPPENHEIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: At a news conference this afternoon, the tribal chairman, Floyd Jourdain Jr., said that these shootings have devastated the community here.

The special agent in charge from the FBI who spoke was Michael Tabman. And he gave this timeline, saying, yesterday afternoon, Jeffrey Weise, the assailant, age 16, went to his grandfather's home. He shot his grandfather, also shot his grandfather's companion, noting that his grandfather worked for the Tribal Police Department. Special Agent Tabman said that Mr. Weise took his grandfather's flak jacket, then drove to the high school, where he shot a security guard. Then he went down a hallway and he shot a schoolteacher and also killed a number of students at that point.

He returned some fire from police who accosted him. No police were hurt. But, after that exchange of fire, Special Agent Tabman said, is when the assailant then took a gun and shot himself in the head. There is apparently some videotape of Jeff Weise in the hallway, though that was not released by the FBI. They also did not speak to a motive in this case.

However, they did say that there are other guns involved, other than the .22-caliber weapon, saying there's a .40-caliber handgun and .12-gauge shotgun, which Jeff Weise took from his grandfather, weapons that were issued, apparently, by the Tribal Police Department.

In Red Lake, Minnesota, I'm Keith Oppenheim reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Well, we're in the fifth hour of a standoff between police in New Brunswick, New Jersey, and the man or men who allegedly are threatening to kill a 14-year-old girl.

CNN's Deborah Feyerick is there now right close to the house where this is taking place.

Deb, what do you know?

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, we're about a half a block way from the house where this is all happening.

A hostage negotiator was just moments ago using a bullhorn to try to communicate with the man who is holding that girl inside on the third floor. He was shielded by two SWAT team guys. And they were all sort of located behind a fence. We don't know whether in fact they made direct contact, but then they did move away to regroup and talk about what was going on.

Now, I did speak to a man who raced to the scene when he heard that a young girl had been taken hostage. He said his niece lives inside the building. Now, although it wasn't his niece who's being held, he said that police officers did play the 911 call that she made. And, apparently, she told police that she was in the bedroom, that she was handcuffed to the bed, and then apparently, at that moment the hostage, the gunmen -- we do believe that he has got a weapon -- came in, grabbed the phone from her, and threatened, saying that, if any police showed up, that he would kill the girl, he would kill the police, and he would also kill himself.

So, right now, we're on the scene, the SWAT team on scene as well. They're staging operations nearby that house. They're trying to make communication with the gunman inside, again, not known whether there is one or two men holding that young girl -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, Deb Feyerick in Brunswick, New Jersey, we'll continue to check in with you as that story develops.

meanwhile, the life and death family feud over Terri Schiavo's fate is now here in Atlanta. The 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals is the latest battleground in the legal war between her parents and her husband.

Our Miles O'Brien is there. He joins me now live with the latest -- Miles.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, Kyra, it was 9:15 this morning Eastern time when the Terri Schiavo saga, which really began 15 years ago, when her heart stopped and she lapsed into a coma and ultimately a persistent vegetative state, finally made its way here to downtown Atlanta and the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals, this following a whole complicated series of legal maneuvers spanning seven or eight years, mostly involving Florida state courts, but, because of some congressional action over the weekend, now involving the federal court system.

This morning, very early, a U.S. district court, federal court, in Tampa, Florida, refused to issue an injunctive relief, an emergency ruling, whatever you want to call it, which would force that feeding tube to be reinserted into Terri Schiavo. That tube was removed on Friday, as you well know by now.

We have here, though, very quickly, subsequent to that announcement from Tampa, the request for an appeal to that, a request for injunctive relief to preserve a meaningful appeal, is what it's called. This comes from Terri Schiavo's parents, who are waging this legal battle against her estranged husband, Michael Schiavo.

Just to summarize the point here: "As matters now stand, this court will be absolutely unable to effect a meaningful review of the petitioners' appeal" -- they being the petitioners -- "unless it grants emergency injunctive relief requiring that nutrition and hydration be immediately restored to Terri Schiavo for the very stark and simple reason that Terri may die at any time. If that happens, the appeal will become moot."

That is the narrow issue they're looking at right now, on this, whether there should be an emergency injunction to force that feeding tube in. A similar statement came in today to this court from the other side. Michael Schiavo's attorneys -- I have an excerpt I want to share with you on that which shows you how starkly on every matter these two sides are apart. Just reading from a portion of that: "There remains adequate time for this court to conduct an expedited and deliberate review of the appellants' claims and the appellees' responses, while maintaining the status quo."

Michael Schiavo and his attorneys essentially saying her death is not imminent. Terri Schiavo's death is not imminent. She has been off that feeding tube since Friday and she can persist for quite some time to allow the federal courts to consider the overall merits of the case. Legal scholars are saying that, generally speaking, there are no real solid grounds for this federal case to prevail on the behalf of the Schindlers.

Having said that, this whole issue of the injunction and ultimately the legal case and the merits of it, something we're watching very closely -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, Miles, thank you so much.

And before this case hit the federal courts, medical experts had testified for years about Terri Schiavo's condition and her chances of getting better. Experts selected by Schiavo's parents reached one set of conclusions. Those hired by her husband said something totally different. And the experts named by the courts have concluded Terri Schiavo has virtually no hope of recovery.

More on all now from CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In a medical case as high profile as Terri Schiavo, you would think the medical experts would have all the answers. But just by listening to them and reviewing statements they gave to the court, it's easy to see why a final answer is so complicated.

DR. WILLIAM HAMMESFAHR, NEUROLOGIST: I spent about 10 hours across about three months. And the woman is very aware of her surroundings. She's very aware. She's alert. She's not in a coma. She's not in PVS. GUPTA: PVS, persistent vegetative state. Dr. Hammesfahr was chosen by Terri Schiavo's parents to testify in court, his opinion very different from Dr. Ronald Cranford, chosen by Michael Schiavo, Terri's husband.

DR. RONALD CRANFORD, NEUROLOGIST: A vegetative state is a scary diagnosis. Unless you know what you're looking for, it looks like the patient is interacting. But Terri is not interacting.

GUPTA: Both of them are neurologists and their conclusions are based on diagnostic tests that are supposed to be objective. Yet, they tell different tales.

HAMMESFAHR: Her C.T. scan has maybe 75 percent of the brain tissue still left.

CRANFORD: I've seen her. There's no doubt in my mind whatsoever, she's in a permanent vegetative state. Her CAT scan shows extremely severe atrophy to the brain. And her EEG is flat. It doesn't show any electrical activity at all.

GUPTA: And, most importantly, their opinions about a possible recovery?

HAMMESFAHR: With proper therapy, she will have a tremendous improvement. I think, personally, she'll be able to walk eventually and she will be able to use at least one of her arms.

CRANFORD: There's no way. That's totally bogus.

GUPTA: Five doctors gave their medical opinions in an evidentiary hearing ordered by a Florida appellate court, two doctors chosen by each side and one court-appointed neurologist who was chosen by the judge. He declined a CNN interview, but told the court: "The preponderance of the data and my clinical examination reveal no evidence of awareness of self, environment or ability to interact with others. Mrs. Schiavo exhibits no evidence of language comprehension or expression. I would state that her chances of a meaningful neurological recovery to be virtually nonexistent."

His language leaves little room for doubt, unless you ask yet another neurologist. And so a medical choice, normally decided between doctors and a patient's loved ones, is fought out in the courts.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Dr. Sanjay Gupta with us now.

All right, EEG was flat. What does that mean?

GUPTA: He said that and I was a little surprised that he said that. I mean, that's a very clinical thing. When you say someone's EEG is flat, that means they are brain-dead. That's a really important term for transplant surgeons, for example, before they take someone's organs. Their brain is no longer working, but their body is, so you can take the organs. Terri is not brain dead. I think just about anybody that looks at her can tell that. What exactly the state she's in, I don't know. I've never examined her. But, from the video alone, I think you can say she's not brain-dead.

PHILLIPS: All right, the feeding tube has been out four days now. Assuming she's not dehydrated, what do you think is the physical status right now?

GUPTA: Well, you know, this is a tough question. I mean, I think she is dehydrated. It's been four days now.

PHILLIPS: She's got to be dehydrated by now.

GUPTA: She's got to be somewhat dehydrated. And she has proven, back in October of '03, that she can go at least 6 1/2 days without any sort of nutrition or I.V. fluids, because that's what happened back then, before the feeding tube was put back in.

Yes, the concern as a doctor is that her kidneys are not getting fluids. Her kidneys could suffer. She could possibly go into kidney failure if her -- if she doesn't get fluids.

PHILLIPS: Her organs could start shutting down.

GUPTA: Could start shutting down. And it possibly cause other problems in her body. That's ultimately what happens to someone who is not fed or given any kind of fluids.

PHILLIPS: Meanwhile, the twist in all this, and we really haven't talked a lot about it, is that you were saying, initially, what could have led to that heart attack in the first place was the fact that she was bulimic?

GUPTA: That's right. And a lot of people don't realize this. And it is sort of an irony in a way, a sad one, but the first thing that brought her to the hospital was, she not eating. She had a significant electrolyte imbalance.

That led her heart to fail. And, subsequently, she couldn't pump enough oxygenated blood to her brain. She essentially had a stroke of her entire brain. Think of it like that. And now, you know, 15 years later, after all that she's been through, it could sort of be the same situation. If she's not fed and gets no hydration, she could again have an electrolyte imbalance, because her kidneys aren't working. Her heart could fail and subsequently not get enough blood to her brain. That could kill her.

PHILLIPS: You can't help to wonder what was going on at the time when she had this eating disorder, what was going on in her mind, in her life at that time, and now 15 years later, it's a pretty bizarre twist.

GUPTA: It is. And, I mean, I don't know what to really make of that in any way. But I know a lot of people are asking, what sort of time frame are we talking about here?

When we talk about -- it's not the lack of nutrition ultimately that may cause her demise. It's really the lack of fluids. You need fluids much more than you need the calories. And who knows how long she could last like this. She's not normal in a certain sense. She's been very debilitated. She may not last as long as somebody else. People say two weeks. It could be 10 days. It could be three weeks. Who really knows?

PHILLIPS: Dr. Gupta, thank you.

GUPTA: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: Well, next on LIVE FROM, a ship runs aground. Don't miss the dramatic pictures of this rescue at sea. We've got it for you.

And stamps could get pricier. How much more? Find out later on LIVE FROM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(FINANCIAL UPDATE)

PHILLIPS: All right, coming up, dangerous weather across the South can only mean one thing. Time to check in with meteorologist Jacqui Jeras. And we'll do that next.

Also ahead, did Congress and the president make a mistake by getting involved in the Terri Schiavo case? We're going to talk about it with a former member of Congress.

More LIVE FROM right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: An update now on an Amber Alert that was issued after two children were abducted in Georgia. We can tell you now these two young children have been found. That Amber Alert was issued across Georgia and the Carolinas today after a man allegedly shot his ex- girlfriend's father and abducted her two children. We can tell you, the two kids are safe. We do not know the whereabouts of Terrance McDowell, the man who allegedly sexually assaulted his former girlfriend earlier this morning, forcing his way into the home at gunpoint and taking these two children.

The woman's 64-year-old father also shot in the head and chest. We'll keep you updated on the whereabouts of Terrance McDowell. Meanwhile, the two kids found safe and sound.

A team being trip turns topsy-turvy when a sailing ship hits a sandbar. The U.S. Coast Guard rescued all 20 people off the coast of California. One by one, crew members and students jumped into the chilly churning water wearing life vests. The National Society of Collegiate Scholars was using the boat for a team building trip.

(WEATHER UPDATE)

O'BRIEN: Fifteen years after Terri Schiavo's heart suddenly stopped and she lapsed into a coma, causing severe brain damage, and some seven years after her husband, Michael Schiavo, first petitioned a state court to remove the feeding tubes and other artificial life support from here, this complicated, emotional legal case has found it ways here to downtown Atlanta, the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals, where a three-judge panel is considering, among other things, whether it is urgent to place that feeding tube back in to Terri Schiavo. That tube was removed on Friday, as you well know.

And it was -- the whole case came here to, the federal jurisdiction, after the United States Congress got in the middle of things on Palm Sunday, essentially giving jurisdiction to federal courts on what has to this point been a state court matter. It's an interesting precedent for Congress.

And joining us to talk a little bit about it is former Congressman Bob Barr, joining us from Washington.

Congressman Barr, let's put it in perspective. There are laws that are written all the time with individuals in mind. This one stands apart, doesn't it?

BOB BARR, FORMER U.S. CONGRESSMAN: Well, it stands apart for several reasons, first of all, because it deals not with simply helping a particular individual through the immigration system, for example, which is what most so-called private bills have to do. But it helps one particular individual by changing the rules of federal jurisdiction, which, if not highly unusual, may be completely unprecedented.

I cannot recall ever having even read about something like this before.

O'BRIEN: Well, depending on where you sit on this, it is either irony or hypocrisy on the part of conservative Republican leaders of Congress to force this issue. These are, after all, the same leaders who use states' rights as a reason to stay out of any other number of issues that they'd rather not get involved in.

BARR: And I think therein lies perhaps the main political damage that the Republicans potentially face.

This makes it very, very clear to a lot of folks that, despite talk by the Republicans of federalism and states' rights and separation of powers and an independent judiciary, that, when push comes to shove, they don't practice what they preach. It also, I think, will set a very dangerous precedent, in that it gives those folks who might favor a very involved federal government the fuel to say next time a court renders a decision they don't like, well, let's just get Congress involved, like we did in the Schiavo case, and have them overturn what courts have already done.

O'BRIEN: Bob Barr, former congressman, weighing in on Congress' involvement in all of this. Sorry we don't have a little bit more time. We are out of time today. Thanks for your time. We appreciate it -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, Miles, see you back here tomorrow.

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