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Time Running Out For Terri Schiavo; Governor Jeb Bush Holds News Conference Addressing Schiavo Case
Aired March 23, 2005 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Up first this hour, time running out, options running out as well, on the multipronged effort to prevent Terri Schiavo from dying.
The latest breaking front, the appeals court here in Atlanta, which ruled overnight against reinserting the feeding tube, which, of course, as you know, was removed last Friday.
Standing by outside that court awaiting another possible ruling, CNN's Tony Harris -- Tony.
TONY HARRIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Miles.
First of all, we want to bring you up to date on the filings this afternoon, as the judicial action has certainly been shifted right here to this 11th Circuit Court of Appeals, the building right behind me here in downtown Atlanta.
First, this afternoon there was this petition for expedited rehearing by the entire 12-member Court of Appeals here. What the Schindlers are hoping for is that the entire body, all 12 members of this court, will hear the emergency appeal for this temporary restraining order that would restore Terri Schiavo's feeding tube. The Schindlers want this body to reverse the three-judge panel's decision this morning.
The Schindlers are pinning their hopes on a dissenting opinion from Judge Wilson this morning. And we've got a piece of that we want to share with you very quickly: "Congress intended for this case to be reviewed with a fresh set of eyes. We are not called upon to consider the wisdom of the legislation in granting this injunction. We would merely effectuate Congress' intent."
And the other filing that we want to bring to your attention is one from the Justice Department. For the third time in three days, the Justice Department has filed a petition here at the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals in support of a position held by the Schindlers and also asking for this expedited rehearing.
One other note now, the question comes up, what happens next? If you're the Schindlers, here's what you're hoping for, that seven of the 12 members of this court will agree, first of all, to hear the emergency appeal, and then after the appeal, what the Schindlers are hoping for is that seven of the 12 judges will grant this temporary restraining order that then orders the restoration of the feeding tube for Terri Schiavo. But first things first. Seven judges have to agree to rehear the emergency appeal. And we are keeping an eye on that here in downtown Atlanta -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: All right, Tony, thank you very much. That's Tony Harris at the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals in Atlanta -- Kyra.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: All right, things also in motion in Florida, where it's five days now since the court-ordered removal of Terri Schiavo's feeding tube.
And with that part of the story, CNN's Bob Franken joins us once again outside Pinellas Park -- or in Pinellas Park, rather, outside of Terri Schiavo's hospice.
Hi, Bob.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello.
And, right now, the focus is on trying to find out -- the family members here are trying to find out what Governor Jeb Bush is going to announce. We're expecting a news conference. It is billed as a plan to be put forth by Governor Bush which would come up with a solution, which presumably he means that they would be able to reinsert the nutrition tube which was removed on Friday.
There's been an intensification of what the officials here, the ones who are supporting the family, say is an acknowledged public relations campaign. They had planned arrests today. There were 10 of them altogether, because the police and the demonstrators were working in a very carefully choreographed script that even included three children.
The 10 who were arrested were symbolically trying to bring in water for Terri Schiavo. This has gone on a few times before. The police do not allow them on the grounds because hospice officials don't want anybody on the ground. When the people refuse to go, they are arrested. In this case, you see that these are children, one of the family members.
They were handcuffed, like the others, and put into a squad car, ages 14, 12 and 10, taken to the juvenile assessment center. It was, of course, a dramatic moment. Another dramatic moment is one that is occurring almost every day now. It is one of the most emotional selling points, if I can use the term, of the family. And that is Mary Schindler, the mother of Terri Schiavo, who comes out to make a plea to the politicians.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARY SCHINDLER, MOTHER OF TERRI SCHIAVO: When I close my eyes at night, all I can see is Terri's face in front of me dying, starving to death. Please, someone out there, stop this cruelty. Stop the insanity. Please let my daughter live.
(END VIDEO CLIP) FRANKEN: Now, Michael Schiavo, who is the husband of Terri Schiavo and is, of course, the other part of this bitter family divide, has been silent. The real statements that he's making, he's making in the court cases. Family members are expressing some concern that they're not going to have much success in the courts, so they're putting pressure on the state capital in Florida, in the hope that might produce something. We're going to hear from Governor Jeb Bush to see if he has a solution -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right, Bob Franken there in Pinellas Park, thank you so much.
Now, President Bush is again weighing in on Terri Schiavo's fate. He describes the case as extraordinary and sad and says he will await the court's decisions.
Let's get details now from our Dana Bash in Waco, Texas -- Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kyra.
Well, certainly, the president said that they are awaiting the court's decision, but we have a very important statement from the White House about what they can or can't do if the court's decision doesn't go their way, doesn't go the way of the Schiavo family. And that is that they really do not believe, we are told, that they have any other legal options beyond exhausting the federal court system.
We know that justice officials, White House counsel officials have been looking into what, if anything, they can do more beyond, of course, the extraordinary move that President Bush did just a few days ago, signing into law, allowing this federal process to happen. And the conclusion is, there is nothing that they can do on the executive level.
And just a short while ago, a couple of hours ago in Waco, the president commented on this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is an extraordinary and sad case, and I believe that, in a case such as this, the legislative branch, the executive branch, ought to err on the side of life, which we have, and now we'll watch the courts make its decisions. But we looked at all options from the executive branch perspective.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Now, from the executive branch perspective, at this time, certainly, the Justice Department is weighing in, making the Bush administration's views known to the courts, filing briefs along the way, as it goes up through the courts, most recently today filing a brief with the 11th Circuit, saying that they do hope that they would listen to the thoughts and wishes of the Schiavo -- of Terri Schiavo's family, her parents be, as opposed to her husband, but, again, the president making clear that, as officials have told us, they have really looked into what they can do if they go all the way through the federal judicial system and the avenues are exhausted and it doesn't go President Bush's way, the way he just described he wants it to go, that Terri Schiavo's feeding tube is put back in.
And they've concluded, really, that there isn't much they can do. And just, as a side note, Congress, certainly we're hearing from our congressional team, that there isn't much of an appetite to do much there either beyond what they've already done. We saw a letter from Senator Bill Frist, the majority leader, yesterday to the Florida governor, Jeb Bush, essentially saying that he hopes he can work his way through the Florida court system and perhaps even the legislature, essentially signaling that even Congress doesn't think that there's anything more they can do beyond the extraordinary measures that we've seen over the last several days -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Dana Bash with the president in Waco, Texas, thank you -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Well, let's pick up on that point, because no doubt there's some congressional leaders who might wish they could do something more.
CNN's Joe Johns joining us now following all that from Washington.
Joe, what's the talk in the halls there?
JOE JOHNS, CNN CAPITOL HILL CORRESPONDENT: Well, preparation continues at the Capitol and here at the Supreme Court, Miles, on this anticipation, I guess I should say, of the appeal getting here to the Supreme Court some time after they're finished with it in Atlanta.
In fact, House Republicans have been very busy trying to write up some documents to bring over to the Supreme Court, including a friend of the court brief that they want to bring over, as well as a statement of congressional intent on the legislation that was passed on Terri Schiavo last weekend.
Now, we got ahold of a copy of that statement of congressional intent. It says a number of things, first, that the court the first court, the district court, failed to properly assess the legislative history of that law. It says the legislation requires the reinsertion of the feeding tube. It also says the plain meaning and legislative history of that law clearly require that a temporary restraining order be issued. This is required to ensure that desperately needed nutritional support is provided to Terri Schiavo to keep her alive during the pendency of her claim.
So, the House Republicans clearly have a position on that. That is signed, of course, by the speaker of the House, as well as Majority Leader Tom DeLay and Jim Sensenbrenner, the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee. Assuming, of course, that appeal does make its way to the Supreme Court, we do expect that Justice Anthony Kennedy would be the person to take it in. In all likelihood, based on what he's done it before, he would probably bump it up for the full Supreme Court for them to make a decision. Of, the first question would be would they take the case after all this, Miles?
O'BRIEN: Well, that's a big question. Give people the back- story here. It's not the first time it would cross the threshold there at the Supreme Court.
JOHNS: Right, three times, in fact. I believe once it was brought up by the family, once by Governor Jeb Bush, once by the House Government Reform Committee. Of course each time, the Supreme Court didn't want to take the case. They sort of tried to stay out of it, Miles.
O'BRIEN: All right, so, there's nothing that would lead you to believe -- and you're an attorney -- that would lead you to believe that it would be much different this time, right?
JOHNS: I have a law degree, but I can't tell you what Supreme Court is going to do, Miles. This Supreme Court, of course, would take a look at it, but it's anybody's guess because this is an extraordinary law that the Congress passed. And there are some different issues raised in what they've seen before when talking about Terri Schiavo.
O'BRIEN: All right, Joe Johns at the Supreme Court, attorney and reporter, appreciate it -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Well, a new warning from the Social Security trustees about running out of money. The year is 2017, and that's when the trustees say the system will spend more in benefits than it takes in from payroll taxes.
But today's trustee report says that Social Security won't go bust entirely until 2041. More ominously, the trustees predict that Medicare could go bankrupt much sooner, perhaps 2020.
O'BRIEN: All right, we are expecting a live news conference in Florida. Governor Jeb Bush, there you see that signal. There's the podium, Governor Jeb Bush going to weigh in on the Terri Schiavo case, as the focus -- we just told you about what's going on at the Supreme Court. We've told you what's going on in Atlanta at the appeals court, federal appeals court.
And one of the other issues that is kind of working concurrently here is the family's efforts, Terri Schiavo's parents' effort, their attorneys, to get some legislation passed in Tallahassee which would in effect put that feeding tube back in Terri Schiavo. So we'll hear from the governor very shortly. Of course, we'll bring it to you live.
O'BRIEN: Also ahead on LIVE FROM, refusing to serve.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's about people's lives. And I think that people's lives and people's rights, humans' rights, are incredibly important.
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O'BRIEN: Some young Israelis dodge the call to duty. Find out why and how it could impact their country's future.
PHILLIPS: Plus, preparing for the royal wedding. See where Prince Charles and his fiancee say plan to marry next month and find out who will serve as witnesses.
O'BRIEN: And later, the saintly skillet. Remember that Virgin Mary cheese toast? Well, its maker and marketer is back. And what is it, belly button lint? I don't know. LIVE FROM will be back and we'll tell you what she's now pedaling for you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Live now to Tallahassee, Governor Jeb Bush.
The Florida legislature in Tallahassee, the state Senate could take up emergency legislation today. Let's listen in. It's regarding the Schiavo case.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
GOV. JEB BUSH (R), FLORIDA: ... began at that time, and new information has come to light, after review of Terri Schiavo's medical records by members of the Adult Protective Services team, which includes a very renowned neurologist by the name of Dr. William Cheshire, who is a neurologist at the Mayo Clinic in Jacksonville.
The neurologist's review indicates that Terri may have been misdiagnosed and it is more likely that she is in a state of minimal consciousness rather than in a persistent vegetative state.
This new information raises serious concerns and warrants immediate action. Terri is now going on her sixth day without food or water. It is imperative that she be stabilized so that the Adult Protective Services team can fulfill their statutory duty and thoroughly review all of the facts surrounding her case.
If there's any uncertainty, we should err on the side of protecting her. We're exhausting all executive options and continue to work with the Florida legislature to save Terri's life.
I'm doing everything within my power to make sure that Terri is afforded at least the same right rights that criminals convicted of the most heinous crimes take for granted.
If a prisoner comes forward with new DNA evidence 20 years after his conviction suggesting his innocence, there is no doubt that the courts, in our state or all across the country for that matter, would immediately review his case. We should do no less for Terri Schiavo.
I'm urging the Florida Senate to take up the bills, and they are in debate right now as we speak on their bill that will be part of the process we believe that will provide protection for Terri Schiavo and other vulnerable profoundly disabled Floridians.
To all of those who have expressed their support for Terri Schiavo, I have a message, and that is that your prayers and your petitions are working. Those who value life need to act accordingly.
Even though we may disagree with the courts, there is no justification for violent acts. There had been some reports that people are making threatening declarations if this process doesn't go their way.
I urge all who want to help Terri Schiavo to honor her by remaining calm and reacting peacefully, even though we are all very distressed by what is happening.
Secretary Hadi has been working with the adult protective team and Dr. Agwunobi and Secretary Levine also have been assisting her. If there's any legal questions, Raquel Rodriguez, my chief legal counsel, is here to answer those.
We would be happy to try to answer any questions.
Luci, would you like to -- nope.
QUESTION: Why did it take two days from the complaints on the 21st, and you're acting on the 23rd, at this 11th hour?
J. BUSH: Sorry.
QUESTION: You're acting at the 11th hour, and the complaints were made three days ago.
J. BUSH: No. The complaints were received three weeks ago, and we've had significant delays in -- the department has. The team has had significant delays in getting the necessary information to be able to do their statutory duty.
So this investigation has been ongoing for a long while.
It was only yesterday, as I understand it, that the doctor received videotapes that he could review regarding whether or not Terri Schiavo was in PVS status or is profoundly disabled.
And his conclusion, you know, is what is the basis of this. We hope to get an affidavit, and it will be submitted to the courts sometime today.
QUESTION: Is his conclusion based on a videotape examination?
LUCI HADI, FLORIDA CHILDREN AND FAMILIES SECRETARY: Dr. Cheshire has made a personal observation of Mrs. Schiavo. He was unable to examine her because of the provisions of the court order and the guardian's requirements, but he has made a personal review of Ms. Schiavo.
He has viewed the extensive medical records. He has also witnessed two very lengthy videotapes out of a series of six. We're attempting to obtain viewable copies of the other four tapes from the court today so that he might see those as well.
DR. Cheshire has also done considerable research on the aspects of pain and how those aspects are manifested in people in persistent vegetative state versus those with minimal consciousness.
QUESTION: I was wondering if you could just clarify...
HADI: Certainly.
QUESTION: ... he did not stand by her bedside and physically examine her?
HADI: He stood by her bedside. He did not physically examine her.
QUESTION: For how long?
HADI: I don't know the exact date, but we can get that for you. And for the length of time he was permitted to be in the room, I believe it was less than one hour.
QUESTION: Governor Bush, I was wondering, could you tell us how Dr. Cheshire was selected to be on the APT, and how were the other members of the APT chosen?
HADI: We did extensive work in terms of identifying individuals who had the whole set of competencies. Let me be sure, Steve, that you understand.
We have a lengthy list of individuals with a variety of skill sets, and individuals are selected to participate on adult protective teams, to volunteer for adult protective teams, in which their expertise is particularly applicable.
That doesn't mean that on the next situation that we have that this same set of individuals would be involved.
But this particular situation called for a neurologist. It called for individuals who have particular expertise in guardianship issues. Those individuals were added to the team as well.
And we're open, as we learn more and gain additional information, if further expertise is required, we shall secure it.
We also have asked for the services of a speech pathologist, an individual who has specialized in the swallowing mechanism and others who are available to us if we are able to provide additional access.
QUESTION: What took the agency 15 years to get around to this?
HADI: I really...
(CROSSTALK)
QUESTION: ... this condition for 15 years, we're talking about two days, three weeks. Where has the Adult Protective Services team been?
HADI: We are responsive to specific allegations of abuse, neglect or exploitation. We don't go out and initiative those, we are responding to those.
And so, if there have been none during that period of time that would have this degree of validity to them, then we would not have pursued this.
We have had many other allegations of abuse and neglect. However, we have not had the body of information that has been available to us this time and that we have accumulated this time until this point.
QUESTION: Governor Bush, a legal question, if she's not in a persistent vegetative state, then how could the legislation being contemplated by the legislature apply to her?
J. BUSH: I don't know. I'm not certain, to be honest with you. I can't answer that question.
It does call into question, though, if, in fact, she is not in a persistent vegetative state, then more importantly the question is: Is it appropriate to take out a feeding tube? And that's the basic question that needs to be resolved going forward.
(CROSSTALK)
QUESTION: ... your authority would include the ability to take physical custody of Terri Schiavo?
J. BUSH: Counselor?
To take physical custody?
QUESTION: Yes. Do you think your authority would allow you to take her into yours or DCF's custody?
J. BUSH: I want to make sure that we're carefully saying exactly what the authority is.
RAQUEL RODRIGUEZ, GENERAL COUNSEL, FLORIDA GOVERNOR'S OFFICE: Under Section 415-1051, which is for emergency protective services of vulnerable adults, DCF could take protective custody of Mrs. Schiavo. And I'll leave it at that.
QUESTION: Are you planning on doing that, Governor? Are you planning on taking protective custody of Mrs. Schiavo?
J. BUSH: That won't be my decision.
QUESTION: Does this action today -- does this go back to Judge Greer to review?
J. BUSH: There'll be a motion in front of -- I believe it'll be Judge Greer. There's a motion that's in front of him right now for his review about asking once again for the department to be allowed to do what it's supposed to be doing.
And that's in front of him right now, isn't it?
RODRIGUEZ: Yes, sir.
QUESTION: Governor, is this doctor presenting anything different from what has already been considered by the court?
J. BUSH: Yes, absolutely.
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) court refuses to reconsider Terri's case today?
J. BUSH: The family, as I understand it, as appeals for an en banc ruling, which I think is appropriate. And there are several avenues that are being pursued at the same time.
We have a duty, I think, to act, within the law, and that's what we're doing in the executive branch. Hopefully, the legislature will take up this vote and will vote favorably on the bill that's in front of them.
J. BUSH: I believe the House will amend that bill, pass it back to the Senate.
So I understand that if the bill does pass that there is the two- thirds vote to send it to the House. We have high confidence that they will send it back.
If it all works, I will be signing a law by the end of the day.
That requires 21 senators. And I would just urge them to vote their conscience, to do this in a thoughtful way, to make sure that they have all the information that's available, including this information that I think is quite relevant.
(CROSSTALK)
J. BUSH: Thank you.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIPS: Florida Governor Jeb Bush there coming out and telling reporters he's still trying to do everything in his power to save Terri Schiavo's life, announcing to the press there that he says now the Adult Protective Services team at Adult Protective Services has come together with a new report.
Dr. William Cheshire, the governor saying a renowned neurologist at the Mayo Clinic, has come forward with a new report saying that it's possible that Terri Schiavo has been misdiagnosed.
You're watching live pictures right now, as a prayer takes place there with the governor and his staff. But he's saying that this report is saying that Terri Schiavo could be misdiagnosed, that it's possible she is not in a persistent vegetative state. She could just be profoundly disabled.
However, this neurologist did not examine Terri Schiavo. I want to make that point. He stood by her bedside for less than an hour. We're not sure when. They couldn't give us a date.
Reviewed her medical records, reviewed videotape, and now the governor said they're working an affidavit to submit his testimony into court. Meanwhile, the governor said the Florida legislature in Tallahassee -- he is hoping the state Senate will take up his emergency legislation. Even if the bill's sponsor says it's not clear whether it has enough votes to pass right now, the governor believes it does, Florida lawmakers now taking up that issue. They've taken it up twice before.
Governor Bush now pushing them to pass this to reinsert the tube to keep Terri Schiavo alive, a lot happening out of Florida and also here in Atlanta, Georgia, at the 11th Circuit Court.
That's where Tony Harris is. He's just getting news that a decision has been made there in the appeals court -- Tony.
HARRIS: That's right, Kyra.
It looks for all intense purposes like the appeals process in the Schiavo matter here at the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals in downtown Atlanta is over. Just a moment ago, we were handed this decision by the 11th Circuit Court judges on the petition for expedited rehearing by the entire court, all 12 members of the court.
And we can tell you that that petition has been denied. There will be no expedited rehearing here. What the Schindlers were hoping for is that at least seven of the 12 judges of this court would agree to hear this emergency appeal on the temporary restraining order that would restore the feeding tube for Terri Schiavo.
But just a few moments ago, just literally maybe five minutes ago, the court handed us this decision that the petition for an expedited rehearing has been denied by the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals here in downtown Atlanta. For all intense and purposes, the case is closed here in the Atlanta court -- Kyra, back to you.
PHILLIPS: All right, Tony Harris outside the courtroom, as the Atlanta Appeals Court denies rehearing the Schiavo case -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Well, though the queen won't be there, this woman coming up will. Up next on LIVE FROM, the woman who will marry Prince Charles and Camilla Parker Bowles -- I have a feeling we're not doing that right now, since we're not seeing it...
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIPS: Bob Franken.
O'BRIEN: Nobody has told me anything about what we're doing.
Why don't you do it, please. PHILLIPS: All right.
Let's go to Bob Franken. He's just outside the hospice there where Terri Schiavo is in Pinellas Park, Florida.
Bob, you heard the news coming out of here in Atlanta. You also heard the news conference with Governor Jeb Bush. What's the word there and what could happen next?
FRANKEN: Well, what could happen next is the legislature, the state legislature in Tallahassee, now will have the added pressure from Governor Jeb Bush to see if that will bring action. He's also bringing up the possibility that there has to be a new investigation of old charges about mistreatment of Terri Schiavo before her death. These are charges that have rattled around without confirmation enough to satisfy to satisfy any court.
But he's saying that they need to be investigated again. And, until then, Terri Schiavo would have to have her feeding tube reconnected. In addition to which, he was saying that there's been still another investigation by a prominent neurologist, not an examination, not a full examination, but a prominent neurologist is raising questions about the diagnosis of persistent vegetative state.
All of that, he says, mitigates in favor of delaying any final decision about Terri Schiavo, the final decision being the one that's under way now. She's had her feeding tube removed, as you know, and slowly dying by all accounts. Of course, everybody is racing against time. They're racing against time now because of the decisions at the 4th Circuit. There's a consensus that the next step will be to rush a request to the United States Supreme Court, which could be expected to act quickly on the request to come up with that emergency order that has thus far been elusive at the lower court levels -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right, Bob Franken monitoring things there outside the hospice, appreciate it. Thank you very much -- Miles..
O'BRIEN: All right, let's dissect that news conference by Governor Jeb Bush in Tallahassee a little bit more.
Joining us on the line now is civil rights attorney Avery Friedman.
Mr. Friedman, can you hear me?
AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: I can hear you fine, Miles.
O'BRIEN: All right, let's walk through that, first of all. All kinds of fronts here shaping up. Why don't we go just through it point by point. What struck you in that announcement there?
FRIEDMAN: Well, the difficulty that is created by or was created by the news conference is that it again created an expectation.
You may recall, Miles, that the governor already endeavored to intervene and the Florida courts held that what he did was unconstitutional. We're right back again. And, in fact, what the 11th Circuit did about -- well, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit did essentially is what the court did earlier, the three-judge panel, basically saying this. We are a nation of laws and we have to use the courts to review both executive and legislative action.
So, I -- in my judgment, that law, and I monitored for CNN between 10:00 p.m. and 1:00 a.m., when all this was going on. I looked at it as the Schindler false hope act. There was no way it was going to withhold constitutional muster. And that's exactly what has happened.
So, what the courts have done, Miles, is put aside the emotion, which is hard to do, put aside the politics, which it must do, and looked at the American Constitution. Bottom line, the difficulty is that, despite the pronouncement by the governor, whatever goes on in Tallahassee, I think in practical terms, it will not be able to withstand constitutional muster. There's no way it's going to withstand judicial scrutiny.
O'BRIEN: Well, not to speculate too far here, but I think it's probably fairly accurate to say that the governor might be full aware of that, fully aware of that, and still willing to engage in this in order to force that feeding tube to be reinserted immediately. Would you go along with that?
FRIEDMAN: Well, I think -- I think there's a concession that, essentially, we don't care what the law is. We think that we have to do everything we can to preserve life. That is a very moral argument. It finds no place in the American Constitution, but it is the moral argument which the governor is asserting.
It's the same moral argument that President Bush asserted. And it was also the same moral argument that the majority of the Congress asserted. The problem is that it flies in the face of existing law. It also flies in the face, Miles, of a determination by 19 judges in the state of Florida who unanimously, all the way up from the trial court, found that it was the desire of Terri Schiavo not to have the tube reinserted. And it is that law which the courts must honor.
O'BRIEN: Civil rights attorney Avery Friedman, thank you very much for your insights, your instant analysis of that. We appreciate it.
Obviously, the story continues to develop on many fronts. And, of course, we're tracking it in every way, shape and form.
That's all the time we have for LIVE FROM today.
PHILLIPS: Candy Crowley is going to pick things up from here with "INSIDE POLITICS."
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Aired March 23, 2005 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Up first this hour, time running out, options running out as well, on the multipronged effort to prevent Terri Schiavo from dying.
The latest breaking front, the appeals court here in Atlanta, which ruled overnight against reinserting the feeding tube, which, of course, as you know, was removed last Friday.
Standing by outside that court awaiting another possible ruling, CNN's Tony Harris -- Tony.
TONY HARRIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Miles.
First of all, we want to bring you up to date on the filings this afternoon, as the judicial action has certainly been shifted right here to this 11th Circuit Court of Appeals, the building right behind me here in downtown Atlanta.
First, this afternoon there was this petition for expedited rehearing by the entire 12-member Court of Appeals here. What the Schindlers are hoping for is that the entire body, all 12 members of this court, will hear the emergency appeal for this temporary restraining order that would restore Terri Schiavo's feeding tube. The Schindlers want this body to reverse the three-judge panel's decision this morning.
The Schindlers are pinning their hopes on a dissenting opinion from Judge Wilson this morning. And we've got a piece of that we want to share with you very quickly: "Congress intended for this case to be reviewed with a fresh set of eyes. We are not called upon to consider the wisdom of the legislation in granting this injunction. We would merely effectuate Congress' intent."
And the other filing that we want to bring to your attention is one from the Justice Department. For the third time in three days, the Justice Department has filed a petition here at the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals in support of a position held by the Schindlers and also asking for this expedited rehearing.
One other note now, the question comes up, what happens next? If you're the Schindlers, here's what you're hoping for, that seven of the 12 members of this court will agree, first of all, to hear the emergency appeal, and then after the appeal, what the Schindlers are hoping for is that seven of the 12 judges will grant this temporary restraining order that then orders the restoration of the feeding tube for Terri Schiavo. But first things first. Seven judges have to agree to rehear the emergency appeal. And we are keeping an eye on that here in downtown Atlanta -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: All right, Tony, thank you very much. That's Tony Harris at the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals in Atlanta -- Kyra.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: All right, things also in motion in Florida, where it's five days now since the court-ordered removal of Terri Schiavo's feeding tube.
And with that part of the story, CNN's Bob Franken joins us once again outside Pinellas Park -- or in Pinellas Park, rather, outside of Terri Schiavo's hospice.
Hi, Bob.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello.
And, right now, the focus is on trying to find out -- the family members here are trying to find out what Governor Jeb Bush is going to announce. We're expecting a news conference. It is billed as a plan to be put forth by Governor Bush which would come up with a solution, which presumably he means that they would be able to reinsert the nutrition tube which was removed on Friday.
There's been an intensification of what the officials here, the ones who are supporting the family, say is an acknowledged public relations campaign. They had planned arrests today. There were 10 of them altogether, because the police and the demonstrators were working in a very carefully choreographed script that even included three children.
The 10 who were arrested were symbolically trying to bring in water for Terri Schiavo. This has gone on a few times before. The police do not allow them on the grounds because hospice officials don't want anybody on the ground. When the people refuse to go, they are arrested. In this case, you see that these are children, one of the family members.
They were handcuffed, like the others, and put into a squad car, ages 14, 12 and 10, taken to the juvenile assessment center. It was, of course, a dramatic moment. Another dramatic moment is one that is occurring almost every day now. It is one of the most emotional selling points, if I can use the term, of the family. And that is Mary Schindler, the mother of Terri Schiavo, who comes out to make a plea to the politicians.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARY SCHINDLER, MOTHER OF TERRI SCHIAVO: When I close my eyes at night, all I can see is Terri's face in front of me dying, starving to death. Please, someone out there, stop this cruelty. Stop the insanity. Please let my daughter live.
(END VIDEO CLIP) FRANKEN: Now, Michael Schiavo, who is the husband of Terri Schiavo and is, of course, the other part of this bitter family divide, has been silent. The real statements that he's making, he's making in the court cases. Family members are expressing some concern that they're not going to have much success in the courts, so they're putting pressure on the state capital in Florida, in the hope that might produce something. We're going to hear from Governor Jeb Bush to see if he has a solution -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right, Bob Franken there in Pinellas Park, thank you so much.
Now, President Bush is again weighing in on Terri Schiavo's fate. He describes the case as extraordinary and sad and says he will await the court's decisions.
Let's get details now from our Dana Bash in Waco, Texas -- Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kyra.
Well, certainly, the president said that they are awaiting the court's decision, but we have a very important statement from the White House about what they can or can't do if the court's decision doesn't go their way, doesn't go the way of the Schiavo family. And that is that they really do not believe, we are told, that they have any other legal options beyond exhausting the federal court system.
We know that justice officials, White House counsel officials have been looking into what, if anything, they can do more beyond, of course, the extraordinary move that President Bush did just a few days ago, signing into law, allowing this federal process to happen. And the conclusion is, there is nothing that they can do on the executive level.
And just a short while ago, a couple of hours ago in Waco, the president commented on this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is an extraordinary and sad case, and I believe that, in a case such as this, the legislative branch, the executive branch, ought to err on the side of life, which we have, and now we'll watch the courts make its decisions. But we looked at all options from the executive branch perspective.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Now, from the executive branch perspective, at this time, certainly, the Justice Department is weighing in, making the Bush administration's views known to the courts, filing briefs along the way, as it goes up through the courts, most recently today filing a brief with the 11th Circuit, saying that they do hope that they would listen to the thoughts and wishes of the Schiavo -- of Terri Schiavo's family, her parents be, as opposed to her husband, but, again, the president making clear that, as officials have told us, they have really looked into what they can do if they go all the way through the federal judicial system and the avenues are exhausted and it doesn't go President Bush's way, the way he just described he wants it to go, that Terri Schiavo's feeding tube is put back in.
And they've concluded, really, that there isn't much they can do. And just, as a side note, Congress, certainly we're hearing from our congressional team, that there isn't much of an appetite to do much there either beyond what they've already done. We saw a letter from Senator Bill Frist, the majority leader, yesterday to the Florida governor, Jeb Bush, essentially saying that he hopes he can work his way through the Florida court system and perhaps even the legislature, essentially signaling that even Congress doesn't think that there's anything more they can do beyond the extraordinary measures that we've seen over the last several days -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Dana Bash with the president in Waco, Texas, thank you -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Well, let's pick up on that point, because no doubt there's some congressional leaders who might wish they could do something more.
CNN's Joe Johns joining us now following all that from Washington.
Joe, what's the talk in the halls there?
JOE JOHNS, CNN CAPITOL HILL CORRESPONDENT: Well, preparation continues at the Capitol and here at the Supreme Court, Miles, on this anticipation, I guess I should say, of the appeal getting here to the Supreme Court some time after they're finished with it in Atlanta.
In fact, House Republicans have been very busy trying to write up some documents to bring over to the Supreme Court, including a friend of the court brief that they want to bring over, as well as a statement of congressional intent on the legislation that was passed on Terri Schiavo last weekend.
Now, we got ahold of a copy of that statement of congressional intent. It says a number of things, first, that the court the first court, the district court, failed to properly assess the legislative history of that law. It says the legislation requires the reinsertion of the feeding tube. It also says the plain meaning and legislative history of that law clearly require that a temporary restraining order be issued. This is required to ensure that desperately needed nutritional support is provided to Terri Schiavo to keep her alive during the pendency of her claim.
So, the House Republicans clearly have a position on that. That is signed, of course, by the speaker of the House, as well as Majority Leader Tom DeLay and Jim Sensenbrenner, the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee. Assuming, of course, that appeal does make its way to the Supreme Court, we do expect that Justice Anthony Kennedy would be the person to take it in. In all likelihood, based on what he's done it before, he would probably bump it up for the full Supreme Court for them to make a decision. Of, the first question would be would they take the case after all this, Miles?
O'BRIEN: Well, that's a big question. Give people the back- story here. It's not the first time it would cross the threshold there at the Supreme Court.
JOHNS: Right, three times, in fact. I believe once it was brought up by the family, once by Governor Jeb Bush, once by the House Government Reform Committee. Of course each time, the Supreme Court didn't want to take the case. They sort of tried to stay out of it, Miles.
O'BRIEN: All right, so, there's nothing that would lead you to believe -- and you're an attorney -- that would lead you to believe that it would be much different this time, right?
JOHNS: I have a law degree, but I can't tell you what Supreme Court is going to do, Miles. This Supreme Court, of course, would take a look at it, but it's anybody's guess because this is an extraordinary law that the Congress passed. And there are some different issues raised in what they've seen before when talking about Terri Schiavo.
O'BRIEN: All right, Joe Johns at the Supreme Court, attorney and reporter, appreciate it -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Well, a new warning from the Social Security trustees about running out of money. The year is 2017, and that's when the trustees say the system will spend more in benefits than it takes in from payroll taxes.
But today's trustee report says that Social Security won't go bust entirely until 2041. More ominously, the trustees predict that Medicare could go bankrupt much sooner, perhaps 2020.
O'BRIEN: All right, we are expecting a live news conference in Florida. Governor Jeb Bush, there you see that signal. There's the podium, Governor Jeb Bush going to weigh in on the Terri Schiavo case, as the focus -- we just told you about what's going on at the Supreme Court. We've told you what's going on in Atlanta at the appeals court, federal appeals court.
And one of the other issues that is kind of working concurrently here is the family's efforts, Terri Schiavo's parents' effort, their attorneys, to get some legislation passed in Tallahassee which would in effect put that feeding tube back in Terri Schiavo. So we'll hear from the governor very shortly. Of course, we'll bring it to you live.
O'BRIEN: Also ahead on LIVE FROM, refusing to serve.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's about people's lives. And I think that people's lives and people's rights, humans' rights, are incredibly important.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: Some young Israelis dodge the call to duty. Find out why and how it could impact their country's future.
PHILLIPS: Plus, preparing for the royal wedding. See where Prince Charles and his fiancee say plan to marry next month and find out who will serve as witnesses.
O'BRIEN: And later, the saintly skillet. Remember that Virgin Mary cheese toast? Well, its maker and marketer is back. And what is it, belly button lint? I don't know. LIVE FROM will be back and we'll tell you what she's now pedaling for you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Live now to Tallahassee, Governor Jeb Bush.
The Florida legislature in Tallahassee, the state Senate could take up emergency legislation today. Let's listen in. It's regarding the Schiavo case.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
GOV. JEB BUSH (R), FLORIDA: ... began at that time, and new information has come to light, after review of Terri Schiavo's medical records by members of the Adult Protective Services team, which includes a very renowned neurologist by the name of Dr. William Cheshire, who is a neurologist at the Mayo Clinic in Jacksonville.
The neurologist's review indicates that Terri may have been misdiagnosed and it is more likely that she is in a state of minimal consciousness rather than in a persistent vegetative state.
This new information raises serious concerns and warrants immediate action. Terri is now going on her sixth day without food or water. It is imperative that she be stabilized so that the Adult Protective Services team can fulfill their statutory duty and thoroughly review all of the facts surrounding her case.
If there's any uncertainty, we should err on the side of protecting her. We're exhausting all executive options and continue to work with the Florida legislature to save Terri's life.
I'm doing everything within my power to make sure that Terri is afforded at least the same right rights that criminals convicted of the most heinous crimes take for granted.
If a prisoner comes forward with new DNA evidence 20 years after his conviction suggesting his innocence, there is no doubt that the courts, in our state or all across the country for that matter, would immediately review his case. We should do no less for Terri Schiavo.
I'm urging the Florida Senate to take up the bills, and they are in debate right now as we speak on their bill that will be part of the process we believe that will provide protection for Terri Schiavo and other vulnerable profoundly disabled Floridians.
To all of those who have expressed their support for Terri Schiavo, I have a message, and that is that your prayers and your petitions are working. Those who value life need to act accordingly.
Even though we may disagree with the courts, there is no justification for violent acts. There had been some reports that people are making threatening declarations if this process doesn't go their way.
I urge all who want to help Terri Schiavo to honor her by remaining calm and reacting peacefully, even though we are all very distressed by what is happening.
Secretary Hadi has been working with the adult protective team and Dr. Agwunobi and Secretary Levine also have been assisting her. If there's any legal questions, Raquel Rodriguez, my chief legal counsel, is here to answer those.
We would be happy to try to answer any questions.
Luci, would you like to -- nope.
QUESTION: Why did it take two days from the complaints on the 21st, and you're acting on the 23rd, at this 11th hour?
J. BUSH: Sorry.
QUESTION: You're acting at the 11th hour, and the complaints were made three days ago.
J. BUSH: No. The complaints were received three weeks ago, and we've had significant delays in -- the department has. The team has had significant delays in getting the necessary information to be able to do their statutory duty.
So this investigation has been ongoing for a long while.
It was only yesterday, as I understand it, that the doctor received videotapes that he could review regarding whether or not Terri Schiavo was in PVS status or is profoundly disabled.
And his conclusion, you know, is what is the basis of this. We hope to get an affidavit, and it will be submitted to the courts sometime today.
QUESTION: Is his conclusion based on a videotape examination?
LUCI HADI, FLORIDA CHILDREN AND FAMILIES SECRETARY: Dr. Cheshire has made a personal observation of Mrs. Schiavo. He was unable to examine her because of the provisions of the court order and the guardian's requirements, but he has made a personal review of Ms. Schiavo.
He has viewed the extensive medical records. He has also witnessed two very lengthy videotapes out of a series of six. We're attempting to obtain viewable copies of the other four tapes from the court today so that he might see those as well.
DR. Cheshire has also done considerable research on the aspects of pain and how those aspects are manifested in people in persistent vegetative state versus those with minimal consciousness.
QUESTION: I was wondering if you could just clarify...
HADI: Certainly.
QUESTION: ... he did not stand by her bedside and physically examine her?
HADI: He stood by her bedside. He did not physically examine her.
QUESTION: For how long?
HADI: I don't know the exact date, but we can get that for you. And for the length of time he was permitted to be in the room, I believe it was less than one hour.
QUESTION: Governor Bush, I was wondering, could you tell us how Dr. Cheshire was selected to be on the APT, and how were the other members of the APT chosen?
HADI: We did extensive work in terms of identifying individuals who had the whole set of competencies. Let me be sure, Steve, that you understand.
We have a lengthy list of individuals with a variety of skill sets, and individuals are selected to participate on adult protective teams, to volunteer for adult protective teams, in which their expertise is particularly applicable.
That doesn't mean that on the next situation that we have that this same set of individuals would be involved.
But this particular situation called for a neurologist. It called for individuals who have particular expertise in guardianship issues. Those individuals were added to the team as well.
And we're open, as we learn more and gain additional information, if further expertise is required, we shall secure it.
We also have asked for the services of a speech pathologist, an individual who has specialized in the swallowing mechanism and others who are available to us if we are able to provide additional access.
QUESTION: What took the agency 15 years to get around to this?
HADI: I really...
(CROSSTALK)
QUESTION: ... this condition for 15 years, we're talking about two days, three weeks. Where has the Adult Protective Services team been?
HADI: We are responsive to specific allegations of abuse, neglect or exploitation. We don't go out and initiative those, we are responding to those.
And so, if there have been none during that period of time that would have this degree of validity to them, then we would not have pursued this.
We have had many other allegations of abuse and neglect. However, we have not had the body of information that has been available to us this time and that we have accumulated this time until this point.
QUESTION: Governor Bush, a legal question, if she's not in a persistent vegetative state, then how could the legislation being contemplated by the legislature apply to her?
J. BUSH: I don't know. I'm not certain, to be honest with you. I can't answer that question.
It does call into question, though, if, in fact, she is not in a persistent vegetative state, then more importantly the question is: Is it appropriate to take out a feeding tube? And that's the basic question that needs to be resolved going forward.
(CROSSTALK)
QUESTION: ... your authority would include the ability to take physical custody of Terri Schiavo?
J. BUSH: Counselor?
To take physical custody?
QUESTION: Yes. Do you think your authority would allow you to take her into yours or DCF's custody?
J. BUSH: I want to make sure that we're carefully saying exactly what the authority is.
RAQUEL RODRIGUEZ, GENERAL COUNSEL, FLORIDA GOVERNOR'S OFFICE: Under Section 415-1051, which is for emergency protective services of vulnerable adults, DCF could take protective custody of Mrs. Schiavo. And I'll leave it at that.
QUESTION: Are you planning on doing that, Governor? Are you planning on taking protective custody of Mrs. Schiavo?
J. BUSH: That won't be my decision.
QUESTION: Does this action today -- does this go back to Judge Greer to review?
J. BUSH: There'll be a motion in front of -- I believe it'll be Judge Greer. There's a motion that's in front of him right now for his review about asking once again for the department to be allowed to do what it's supposed to be doing.
And that's in front of him right now, isn't it?
RODRIGUEZ: Yes, sir.
QUESTION: Governor, is this doctor presenting anything different from what has already been considered by the court?
J. BUSH: Yes, absolutely.
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) court refuses to reconsider Terri's case today?
J. BUSH: The family, as I understand it, as appeals for an en banc ruling, which I think is appropriate. And there are several avenues that are being pursued at the same time.
We have a duty, I think, to act, within the law, and that's what we're doing in the executive branch. Hopefully, the legislature will take up this vote and will vote favorably on the bill that's in front of them.
J. BUSH: I believe the House will amend that bill, pass it back to the Senate.
So I understand that if the bill does pass that there is the two- thirds vote to send it to the House. We have high confidence that they will send it back.
If it all works, I will be signing a law by the end of the day.
That requires 21 senators. And I would just urge them to vote their conscience, to do this in a thoughtful way, to make sure that they have all the information that's available, including this information that I think is quite relevant.
(CROSSTALK)
J. BUSH: Thank you.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIPS: Florida Governor Jeb Bush there coming out and telling reporters he's still trying to do everything in his power to save Terri Schiavo's life, announcing to the press there that he says now the Adult Protective Services team at Adult Protective Services has come together with a new report.
Dr. William Cheshire, the governor saying a renowned neurologist at the Mayo Clinic, has come forward with a new report saying that it's possible that Terri Schiavo has been misdiagnosed.
You're watching live pictures right now, as a prayer takes place there with the governor and his staff. But he's saying that this report is saying that Terri Schiavo could be misdiagnosed, that it's possible she is not in a persistent vegetative state. She could just be profoundly disabled.
However, this neurologist did not examine Terri Schiavo. I want to make that point. He stood by her bedside for less than an hour. We're not sure when. They couldn't give us a date.
Reviewed her medical records, reviewed videotape, and now the governor said they're working an affidavit to submit his testimony into court. Meanwhile, the governor said the Florida legislature in Tallahassee -- he is hoping the state Senate will take up his emergency legislation. Even if the bill's sponsor says it's not clear whether it has enough votes to pass right now, the governor believes it does, Florida lawmakers now taking up that issue. They've taken it up twice before.
Governor Bush now pushing them to pass this to reinsert the tube to keep Terri Schiavo alive, a lot happening out of Florida and also here in Atlanta, Georgia, at the 11th Circuit Court.
That's where Tony Harris is. He's just getting news that a decision has been made there in the appeals court -- Tony.
HARRIS: That's right, Kyra.
It looks for all intense purposes like the appeals process in the Schiavo matter here at the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals in downtown Atlanta is over. Just a moment ago, we were handed this decision by the 11th Circuit Court judges on the petition for expedited rehearing by the entire court, all 12 members of the court.
And we can tell you that that petition has been denied. There will be no expedited rehearing here. What the Schindlers were hoping for is that at least seven of the 12 judges of this court would agree to hear this emergency appeal on the temporary restraining order that would restore the feeding tube for Terri Schiavo.
But just a few moments ago, just literally maybe five minutes ago, the court handed us this decision that the petition for an expedited rehearing has been denied by the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals here in downtown Atlanta. For all intense and purposes, the case is closed here in the Atlanta court -- Kyra, back to you.
PHILLIPS: All right, Tony Harris outside the courtroom, as the Atlanta Appeals Court denies rehearing the Schiavo case -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Well, though the queen won't be there, this woman coming up will. Up next on LIVE FROM, the woman who will marry Prince Charles and Camilla Parker Bowles -- I have a feeling we're not doing that right now, since we're not seeing it...
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIPS: Bob Franken.
O'BRIEN: Nobody has told me anything about what we're doing.
Why don't you do it, please. PHILLIPS: All right.
Let's go to Bob Franken. He's just outside the hospice there where Terri Schiavo is in Pinellas Park, Florida.
Bob, you heard the news coming out of here in Atlanta. You also heard the news conference with Governor Jeb Bush. What's the word there and what could happen next?
FRANKEN: Well, what could happen next is the legislature, the state legislature in Tallahassee, now will have the added pressure from Governor Jeb Bush to see if that will bring action. He's also bringing up the possibility that there has to be a new investigation of old charges about mistreatment of Terri Schiavo before her death. These are charges that have rattled around without confirmation enough to satisfy to satisfy any court.
But he's saying that they need to be investigated again. And, until then, Terri Schiavo would have to have her feeding tube reconnected. In addition to which, he was saying that there's been still another investigation by a prominent neurologist, not an examination, not a full examination, but a prominent neurologist is raising questions about the diagnosis of persistent vegetative state.
All of that, he says, mitigates in favor of delaying any final decision about Terri Schiavo, the final decision being the one that's under way now. She's had her feeding tube removed, as you know, and slowly dying by all accounts. Of course, everybody is racing against time. They're racing against time now because of the decisions at the 4th Circuit. There's a consensus that the next step will be to rush a request to the United States Supreme Court, which could be expected to act quickly on the request to come up with that emergency order that has thus far been elusive at the lower court levels -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right, Bob Franken monitoring things there outside the hospice, appreciate it. Thank you very much -- Miles..
O'BRIEN: All right, let's dissect that news conference by Governor Jeb Bush in Tallahassee a little bit more.
Joining us on the line now is civil rights attorney Avery Friedman.
Mr. Friedman, can you hear me?
AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: I can hear you fine, Miles.
O'BRIEN: All right, let's walk through that, first of all. All kinds of fronts here shaping up. Why don't we go just through it point by point. What struck you in that announcement there?
FRIEDMAN: Well, the difficulty that is created by or was created by the news conference is that it again created an expectation.
You may recall, Miles, that the governor already endeavored to intervene and the Florida courts held that what he did was unconstitutional. We're right back again. And, in fact, what the 11th Circuit did about -- well, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit did essentially is what the court did earlier, the three-judge panel, basically saying this. We are a nation of laws and we have to use the courts to review both executive and legislative action.
So, I -- in my judgment, that law, and I monitored for CNN between 10:00 p.m. and 1:00 a.m., when all this was going on. I looked at it as the Schindler false hope act. There was no way it was going to withhold constitutional muster. And that's exactly what has happened.
So, what the courts have done, Miles, is put aside the emotion, which is hard to do, put aside the politics, which it must do, and looked at the American Constitution. Bottom line, the difficulty is that, despite the pronouncement by the governor, whatever goes on in Tallahassee, I think in practical terms, it will not be able to withstand constitutional muster. There's no way it's going to withstand judicial scrutiny.
O'BRIEN: Well, not to speculate too far here, but I think it's probably fairly accurate to say that the governor might be full aware of that, fully aware of that, and still willing to engage in this in order to force that feeding tube to be reinserted immediately. Would you go along with that?
FRIEDMAN: Well, I think -- I think there's a concession that, essentially, we don't care what the law is. We think that we have to do everything we can to preserve life. That is a very moral argument. It finds no place in the American Constitution, but it is the moral argument which the governor is asserting.
It's the same moral argument that President Bush asserted. And it was also the same moral argument that the majority of the Congress asserted. The problem is that it flies in the face of existing law. It also flies in the face, Miles, of a determination by 19 judges in the state of Florida who unanimously, all the way up from the trial court, found that it was the desire of Terri Schiavo not to have the tube reinserted. And it is that law which the courts must honor.
O'BRIEN: Civil rights attorney Avery Friedman, thank you very much for your insights, your instant analysis of that. We appreciate it.
Obviously, the story continues to develop on many fronts. And, of course, we're tracking it in every way, shape and form.
That's all the time we have for LIVE FROM today.
PHILLIPS: Candy Crowley is going to pick things up from here with "INSIDE POLITICS."
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