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Terri Schiavo's Supporters Urge Governor to Take Action; Pope Misses Holy Week Celebrations Due to Ill Health; Deepak Chopra: Terri's Soul Already Gone; Vatican: Feeding Tube Removal a "Grave Sin"

Aired March 25, 2005 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Governor Bush is now the only practical hope here for Terri Schiavo.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MILES O'BRIEN, CO-HOST: Governor Jeb Bush feeling political pressure in the Terri Schiavo case. Some say he has the power to save her life, but does he really? We'll take a look at what's at stake.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CO-HOST: On this Eastern weekend, spiritual leaders around the world this weekend are weighing in on the Schiavo case. I'll talk to Dr. Deepak Chopra about life, death and suffering.

O'BRIEN: And then, washed away by a changing climate. I'll take you to the vanishing islands of Tuvalu in the South Pacific.

From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Miles O'Brien.

PHILLIPS: And I'm Kyra Phillips. This hour of CNN's LIVE FROM start rights now.

We begin with appeals of both legal and emotional kind in the battle over Terri Schiavo. The woman at the center of it all lying inside a Florida hospice now a full week without food or water.

As she inches closer to death, her case is back in the hands of the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Atlanta. Her parents are urging it to overturn a federal judge's decision earlier today not to have her feeding tube reinserted.

Terri Schiavo's father says something has to be done and quickly.

An Illinois man allegedly wanted to do just that. Police say Michael Mitchell tried to rob a Florida gun store as part of a plan to try to rescue Terri Schiavo. He's facing charges, including attempted armed robbery and aggravated assault.

Tension is growing outside the hospice that's been caring for Schiavo. Sheriff's deputies apparently detained at least seven more protesters today. No signs of struggle, however. Many of them children, as you can see. As in previous days, this demonstration was coordinated with police. PHILLIPS: There's increasing pressure on Florida Governor Jeb Bush to intervene in this case. Supporters of Terri Schiavo's parents are holding an all-day prayer vigil this Good Friday at the governor's mansion in Tallahassee. It's just the latest in a series of calls to action.

CNN's Ed Henry takes a look at the political storm.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let us pray hard, brothers and sisters. Governor Bush is now the only practical hope here for Terri Schiavo.

ED HENRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The governor's in the eye of the storm, facing heat from fellow conservatives who want him to find a way, any way, to save Terri Schiavo's life.

RANDALL TERRY, SCHINDLER FAMILY SPOKESMAN: If she dies, there is going to be hell to pay with the pro-life, pro-family Republican people of various legislative levels.

PAT ROBERTSON, FOUNDER, CHRISTIAN BROADCASTING NETWORK: He doesn't have to let some little piddly circuit court judge run the state of Florida.

HENRY: Protesters streamed in and out of the governor's office.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (singing): Take away the evil in our hearts.

HENRY: And the phones kept ringing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But I'm sure the governor will do whatever is legally within his power to do.

HENRY: Bush mulled that no question behind closed doors, while activists kept a vigil in his reception area. The governor downplayed expectations saying his powers are limited.

GOV. JEB BUSH (R), FLORIDA: They are not as expansive as people would want them to be.

HENRY: But conservative activists disagree, saying the governor has the power to take custody of Schiavo.

ALAN KEYES, CONSERVATIVE ACTIVIST: It's not a question of kidnapping. He merely needs to go and defend her life.

HENRY: The governor understands the passion but hints he won't take drastic action.

BUSH: I understand what they're -- they're acting on their heart and I fully appreciate their sentiments and the emotions that go with this. I've consistently said that I can't go beyond what my powers are and I'm not going to do it.

HENRY: The political stakes are high with perhaps the continuation of the Bush dynasty at the White House hanging in the balance.

LARRY KLAYMAN, CONSERVATIVE ACTIVIST: If he does what he should do and save Terri Schiavo, then in fact, he'll be a hero. If he doesn't do it, he's going to be a villain with regard to most of the Christian right.

HENRY: For others, the stakes hit closer to home. The Withe (ph) family drove 10 hours from Louisiana to the governor's office. Their 13-year-old foster daughter was abused as an infant by her natural parents. She suffered a traumatic brain injury and relies on a feeding tube.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was really struck about how similar Amanda's condition is to Terri's condition.

HENRY: They Withes (Ph) say they came to Florida to tell the governor that just because you're in a vegetative state, it doesn't mean your life should be over.

Ed Henry, CNN, Tallahassee.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Doctors say Terri Schiavo could survive up to two weeks without her feeding tube but his father says his daughter is now down to her last hours.

Meanwhile, her husband's family describes her condition as peaceful. Both sides spoke to CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUZANNE VITADAMO, TERRI SCHIAVO'S SISTER: She looks like she is in a concentration camp. I mean, she's beginning to hollow out. It's just awful. It's awful to have to sit back and watch that -- this process happen to anybody. I mean, we live in America. And, you know, I'm sitting here, and I can't even believe I'm sitting here discussing this. This is sick. So it's horrible.

BRIAN SCHIAVO, MICHAEL SCHIAVO'S BROTHER: I just came here from seeing her, and the only way how I can describe this is she's peaceful. She's laying there, sometimes her mouth is agape and, you know, she's peaceful. She's not writhing in pain. You know, she's really not too different than I saw her the day, you know, the day before.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Be sure to stay with CNN. We'll bring you any developments in the battle over Terri Schiavo as they happen, of course.

And later this hour, the spiritual and religious implications of the case. Author Deepak Chopra and CNN Vatican analyst John Allen will join us in less than 10 minutes. PHILLIPS: Well, an ailing pope skips major Holy Week events, the first time that's happened in his 26-year papacy. Vatican officials insist he's making a good, though slow, recovery after throat surgery more than a month ago.

The latest now from our Alessio Vinci in Rome.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALESSIO VINCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: On Good Friday, Catholics around the world commemorate the pain and suffering Jesus went through during the final hours before being crucified and, indeed, the theme of suffering on this Good Friday here in Rome has taken a whole new dimension with the illness of Pope John Paul II at the center stage.

The pope has missed all of the events marking this very important Holy Week, including two masses yesterday on Holy Thursday, as well as an event this morning in St. Peter's Basilica, an event that he himself had instituted back in 1978 when he was first elected pope and that is to listen to confessions of pilgrims who flock to St. Peter's Square and the basilica on Good Friday.

Indeed, in the afternoon, the pope missed another ceremony in S. Peter's Basilica, a ceremony presided by an American cardinal on his behalf. A ceremony to recall the steps of Jesus on his way to crucifixion. That is the Liturgy of the Passion.

And later this evening, the pope is expected to miss yet another event. For the first time in his papacy, he will not be able to participate in the Way of the Cross, the procession at the Coliseum reenacting Jesus' last moments before dying.

His participation was already limited throughout recent years, first by not being able to carry out -- to carry the cross himself. Then not being able to walk. But he was always able to be there, at least, physically.

This time we understand that the Vatican has made provisions for possibly a video link-up between the Vatican and the Coliseum across Rome. But it is unclear whether or not the pope will, indeed, make an appearance. But if indeed he does, it is also unclear whether or not the pope will be able to speak. We have not heard from him, at least publicly, since he was discharged from the hospital back in mid March.

I'm Alessio Vinci, CNN, reporting from Rome.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: News around the world now.

Kyrgyzstan's president has fled the country but his exact whereabouts, a mystery. He e-mailed Kyrgyzstan's news agency that rumors of his resignation is false. Opposition leaders are forming a transitional government, though. The crisis began when protesters, angry at what they claim were fraudulent election results, overran the seat of power. Bobby Fischer has made his first move in Iceland. Shortly after the arrival there, the former chess champion -- yes you guessed it, he got a haircut. Boy, he needed it.

Fisher is settling into his new home after spending nine months in Japanese detention, fighting a U.S. deportation order. He's wanted in the United States on sanctions busting charges.

And the U.N. wants an international probe into last month's assassination of the former Lebanese prime minister, Rafik Hariri. A U.N. report says Lebanon own inquiry into the killing is flawed and inconclusive. The U.N. blames Lebanon's security services and Syria's military intelligence for failing to provide security.

PHILLIPS: While, most of the debate surrounding Terri Schiavo is about her medical condition, religious and spiritual implications also play a part. That's what I'll be discussing with my next guest, Deepak Chopra.

And then...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You feel anxious. Where are we going to go? How are we going to survive in a totally new environment?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: All right. This is the sort of story you don't see on any of the other networks, folks. We're going to take you to the islands of Tuvalu, home to 11,000 people for now. Coming up, find out why this group of islands, these coral atolls, could soon disappear.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, as the religious reflect on Jesus' death this Good Friday, many of the faithful are also giving special attention to the life and soul of Terri Schiavo. The comparison is centered around suffering and the suffering of Jesus that is commemorated on this Good Friday.

We have talked a lot about the politics surrounding the Terri Schiavo case, all the court proceedings, the protests and the paperwork, but what about Terri Schiavo, the human being, the human soul?

Dr. Deepak Chopra knows a lot about suffering. He sat by the bedsides of those who are slowly dying and has guided loved ones through the suffering process with his spiritual wisdom. He talks about it in his book, "The Deeper Wound: Recovering the Soul from Suffering." He joins us live from San Diego to talk about Terri Schiavo, Jesus Christ, the pope and how the world's religious is responding to the suffering of all three.

Great to see you, Deepak.

DR. DEEPAK CHOPRA, AUTHOR, "THE DEEPER WOUND": Great to see you, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: I guess just for our viewers and to establish where you stand on this issue, first with regard to Terri Schiavo, do you believe that she should remain on a feeding tube, or do you think what is happening now is the right decision?

CHOPRA: I think what's happening now is the right decision, but let me also say that, you know, the very fact that there's so much controversy means that nobody is 100 percent sure. You know? Because, otherwise, there wouldn't be the controversy.

Freud once said the definition of neurosis is the inability to tolerate ambiguity, ambivalence and uncertainty. So we should start with saying we really in the ultimate don't know.

But having that said, life is defined by consciousness, by perception, by cognition, by emotions, by relationships, by behavior and by biology. In her case, there's only one component there that would signify that there is some life there, and that is biology. And moreover, it's autonomic nervous system that we're looking at.

You know, you can take a human heart out. You give it the right nutrition and it can beat for a long time. That doesn't mean it's living. That's not the definition of life.

I think what we're doing right now, by withdrawing this feeding tube, is actually alleviating the suffering of many, many people and, moreover, I think what the really bad about this whole thing is, that her life and her body have become a weapon of political exploitation. And that -- that's a very sad commentary on our times.

PHILLIPS: That's a good point, and I want to talk more about that. But when we talk about Terri and is she suffering, because this is a word that has been used quite a bit lately. Is she suffering? And is she suffering mentally, physically or is she suffering more spiritually?

CHOPRA: Well, she's not suffering because, you know, suffering is in consciousness, and in the absence of consciousness, there is no suffering. If anybody is suffering, it's her parents, who can't decide, you know, who are not so -- who are having anguish. Her husband and all of the people who are attached to very rigid points of view and belief systems.

PHILLIPS: All right.

CHOPRA: There are a lot of belief systems here in contradiction.

PHILLIPS: Well, OK, then that leads me to the next point. If Terri is not suffering, then is everyone forgetting about Terri and what is best for Terri next? And is that an afterlife? Is that a conversation with God and figuring out what is next for her soul, for her being? I mean, what's your outlook with, if she were to die within an hour or two or the next day?

CHOPRA: Where I come from, Kyra, and the philosophy that I embrace is that her soul is not in her body. Her soul broadcasts through her body, just like you are not in my television box, but you are appearing and expressing yourself through my television box.

So her soul is already liberated. It's not localizing through her body, so there is nothing there that is suffering. There's an autonomic nervous system that is playing itself out. And that's only one component of how we define life. She is already liberated, and she is incubating non-locally so she can express herself again if you would just let her go.

PHILLIPS: Dr. Deepak Chopra, we're going to take a quick break. Stay with us. We're going to talk more about this, and we'll bring John Allen in from Rome, from the Vatican. As you know, he covers all issues of the Vatican. We'll take a quick break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Just in to CNN. It's an Amber Alert we've been talking to you about, concerning a young girl from Cedar Rapids, Iowa. An Amber Alert had been issued for 10-year-old Jetseta Marie Gage.

We're now being told that a suspect is in custody. Police were looking for this man, Roger Paul Bentley. And now we are being told that he is in custody, but still no sign of the young mentally challenged girl, 10-year-old Jetseta Marie Gage. But police do have this suspect in custody.

We will keep you posted on the latest of whereabouts and what is the latest information concerning what police have been able to get from the man in custody.

Now we want to continue our conversation about Terri Schiavo. Stepping away from the political aspects of this case and looking more at the spiritual and religious side of things and how on this Good Friday, Catholics have stepped forward, in addition to a number of others from the world's faithful.

We're talking with Dr. Deepak Chopra. He is in San Diego. And along with Deepak, we'd like to bring in our John Allen. He covers all things Vatican for us. He joins us live from Rome.

And John, I want to start with you and how Roman Catholics are saying because Terri Schiavo is Catholic she is one of their own. And so today on this Good Friday, they are pointing out similarities among Terri Schiavo, Jesus Christ, the pope and the issue of suffering.

JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Yes. That's exactly right. I mean, Good Friday is, of course, for Christians today where -- where what is recalled is the suffering and death of Christ on the cross.

So it is kind of the supreme day to recall the reality of suffering in human life and God's plan. And it is, I think, a striking coincidence that on this day the eyes of the world are focused really on two suffering people: one, Terri Schiavo in the United States; the other, Pope John Paul II here. And clearly, the link goes beyond that, because a number of Vatican officials and also the Vatican's official newspaper in recent days has spoken out extremely forcefully on the Schiavo case, calling what's happening in Florida a grave sin and making very strong appeals that Schiavo's life be saved. So a very strong and I would say unusually specific Vatican intervention on this case.

PHILLIPS: Do you find that usual, Deepak? Do you think it's interesting that the Vatican is...

CHOPRA: I think it's a great paradox, actually. You know, the suffering of Christ and the suffering of the pope are suffering examples of great dignity, which has meaning for the rest of the world.

The suffering, the so-called suffering of Terri Schiavo has no dignity there. What we're doing is keeping certain autonomic functions going in the absence of any life.

So I beg to disagree. And I said earlier what has happened is that Terri Schiavo has become a weapon, literally, for political exploitation and also exploitation by religious groups.

PHILLIPS: John, what do you think about the political manipulation of religion in this case?

ALLEN: Well, look. I mean, there's no doubt that politicians of all stripes are scrambling, in a sense, to take advantage of the very deep passions that people, including people of religious belief, feel on these issues.

On the other hand, I think, you know, from the Vatican's point of view, what's at stake here is something fairly simple, and that is the defense of human life from its natural beginning to its natural end.

And I think their argument is that, once you define human worth not on the basis of simple existence but on what a human person can do, that is their ability to think, to relate, to act, then, in effect, you put whole classes of citizens at grave risk: the elderly, the sick, the weak and so forth and so on.

So for them, what's really at stake here is the integrity of human life. And that's why I call this an unusual intervention on their part, because the Vatican normally usually restricts itself to giving you general principles. They allow the interventions on specific cases to be handled by local bishops, normally. In this case, however, they're all over it.

PHILLIPS: Deepak, final word from the spiritual side. I've received a lot of e-mails: is Terri Schiavo going to heaven? Has she had communication with God or her God? And finally, when she does pass, will her parents ever hear from her again?

CHOPRA: I think the answer -- short answer to all of this is yes. All of those beliefs have a basis in religion and in the spiritual experience of many generations. So everybody should be comforted by that.

And I think we are not actually interfering when we let nature take its course. Fifty years ago or a hundred years ago, we wouldn't have this kind of intervention, because nature would have taken its course anyway.

PHILLIPS: Dr. Deepak Chopra and John Allen, our -- Rome correspondent for "The National Catholic Reporter," I thank you both. What a wonderful discussion. Thank you.

CHOPRA: Thank you, Kyra.

O'BRIEN: Prisoners in Iraq trying to tunnel their way out? We're live at the Pentagon with new details next.

PHILLIPS: And talk about missing the mark. A round fired off for avalanche control gives the neighbors a big scare instead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VERONICA DE LA CRUZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Do you remember the capitals of all 50 states? How about the name of your second grade teacher? Do you remember where you put your keys? Whether you know those answers or not, learn more about how memory works at CNN.com.

Details, impressions and opinions constantly bombard our brains, giving us fodder for memories. But how are memories made and later recalled? Well, when you have an experience, it's stored throughout the cerebral cortex. At CNN.com, this interactive guide explains specific brain structures and their role in this complex process.

But even as scientists make strides in understanding memory, millions of Americans struggle with memory loss. According to the Alzheimer's Foundation, as many as 16 million could suffer from the mind-eroding disease by 2050, up from 4.5 million today.

And even though it's difficult to predict Alzheimer's, some say you can do your best to prevent it. To keep your noggin nimble as you age, a few steps suggested by the Mayo Clinic: first of all, exercise your mind with brain teasers. Start by reading a book or learning a new language. Also, mind and body work together, so it's important to stay physically active.

In addition to the resources available at CNN.com, Dr. Sanjay Gupta hosts a primetime special on memory. That's at 10 Eastern this Sunday night on CNN. Hopefully, you'll remember.

From the dot com desk in Atlanta, I'm Veronica De La Cruz.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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Aired March 25, 2005 - 14:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Governor Bush is now the only practical hope here for Terri Schiavo.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MILES O'BRIEN, CO-HOST: Governor Jeb Bush feeling political pressure in the Terri Schiavo case. Some say he has the power to save her life, but does he really? We'll take a look at what's at stake.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CO-HOST: On this Eastern weekend, spiritual leaders around the world this weekend are weighing in on the Schiavo case. I'll talk to Dr. Deepak Chopra about life, death and suffering.

O'BRIEN: And then, washed away by a changing climate. I'll take you to the vanishing islands of Tuvalu in the South Pacific.

From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Miles O'Brien.

PHILLIPS: And I'm Kyra Phillips. This hour of CNN's LIVE FROM start rights now.

We begin with appeals of both legal and emotional kind in the battle over Terri Schiavo. The woman at the center of it all lying inside a Florida hospice now a full week without food or water.

As she inches closer to death, her case is back in the hands of the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Atlanta. Her parents are urging it to overturn a federal judge's decision earlier today not to have her feeding tube reinserted.

Terri Schiavo's father says something has to be done and quickly.

An Illinois man allegedly wanted to do just that. Police say Michael Mitchell tried to rob a Florida gun store as part of a plan to try to rescue Terri Schiavo. He's facing charges, including attempted armed robbery and aggravated assault.

Tension is growing outside the hospice that's been caring for Schiavo. Sheriff's deputies apparently detained at least seven more protesters today. No signs of struggle, however. Many of them children, as you can see. As in previous days, this demonstration was coordinated with police. PHILLIPS: There's increasing pressure on Florida Governor Jeb Bush to intervene in this case. Supporters of Terri Schiavo's parents are holding an all-day prayer vigil this Good Friday at the governor's mansion in Tallahassee. It's just the latest in a series of calls to action.

CNN's Ed Henry takes a look at the political storm.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let us pray hard, brothers and sisters. Governor Bush is now the only practical hope here for Terri Schiavo.

ED HENRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The governor's in the eye of the storm, facing heat from fellow conservatives who want him to find a way, any way, to save Terri Schiavo's life.

RANDALL TERRY, SCHINDLER FAMILY SPOKESMAN: If she dies, there is going to be hell to pay with the pro-life, pro-family Republican people of various legislative levels.

PAT ROBERTSON, FOUNDER, CHRISTIAN BROADCASTING NETWORK: He doesn't have to let some little piddly circuit court judge run the state of Florida.

HENRY: Protesters streamed in and out of the governor's office.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (singing): Take away the evil in our hearts.

HENRY: And the phones kept ringing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But I'm sure the governor will do whatever is legally within his power to do.

HENRY: Bush mulled that no question behind closed doors, while activists kept a vigil in his reception area. The governor downplayed expectations saying his powers are limited.

GOV. JEB BUSH (R), FLORIDA: They are not as expansive as people would want them to be.

HENRY: But conservative activists disagree, saying the governor has the power to take custody of Schiavo.

ALAN KEYES, CONSERVATIVE ACTIVIST: It's not a question of kidnapping. He merely needs to go and defend her life.

HENRY: The governor understands the passion but hints he won't take drastic action.

BUSH: I understand what they're -- they're acting on their heart and I fully appreciate their sentiments and the emotions that go with this. I've consistently said that I can't go beyond what my powers are and I'm not going to do it.

HENRY: The political stakes are high with perhaps the continuation of the Bush dynasty at the White House hanging in the balance.

LARRY KLAYMAN, CONSERVATIVE ACTIVIST: If he does what he should do and save Terri Schiavo, then in fact, he'll be a hero. If he doesn't do it, he's going to be a villain with regard to most of the Christian right.

HENRY: For others, the stakes hit closer to home. The Withe (ph) family drove 10 hours from Louisiana to the governor's office. Their 13-year-old foster daughter was abused as an infant by her natural parents. She suffered a traumatic brain injury and relies on a feeding tube.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was really struck about how similar Amanda's condition is to Terri's condition.

HENRY: They Withes (Ph) say they came to Florida to tell the governor that just because you're in a vegetative state, it doesn't mean your life should be over.

Ed Henry, CNN, Tallahassee.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Doctors say Terri Schiavo could survive up to two weeks without her feeding tube but his father says his daughter is now down to her last hours.

Meanwhile, her husband's family describes her condition as peaceful. Both sides spoke to CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUZANNE VITADAMO, TERRI SCHIAVO'S SISTER: She looks like she is in a concentration camp. I mean, she's beginning to hollow out. It's just awful. It's awful to have to sit back and watch that -- this process happen to anybody. I mean, we live in America. And, you know, I'm sitting here, and I can't even believe I'm sitting here discussing this. This is sick. So it's horrible.

BRIAN SCHIAVO, MICHAEL SCHIAVO'S BROTHER: I just came here from seeing her, and the only way how I can describe this is she's peaceful. She's laying there, sometimes her mouth is agape and, you know, she's peaceful. She's not writhing in pain. You know, she's really not too different than I saw her the day, you know, the day before.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Be sure to stay with CNN. We'll bring you any developments in the battle over Terri Schiavo as they happen, of course.

And later this hour, the spiritual and religious implications of the case. Author Deepak Chopra and CNN Vatican analyst John Allen will join us in less than 10 minutes. PHILLIPS: Well, an ailing pope skips major Holy Week events, the first time that's happened in his 26-year papacy. Vatican officials insist he's making a good, though slow, recovery after throat surgery more than a month ago.

The latest now from our Alessio Vinci in Rome.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALESSIO VINCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: On Good Friday, Catholics around the world commemorate the pain and suffering Jesus went through during the final hours before being crucified and, indeed, the theme of suffering on this Good Friday here in Rome has taken a whole new dimension with the illness of Pope John Paul II at the center stage.

The pope has missed all of the events marking this very important Holy Week, including two masses yesterday on Holy Thursday, as well as an event this morning in St. Peter's Basilica, an event that he himself had instituted back in 1978 when he was first elected pope and that is to listen to confessions of pilgrims who flock to St. Peter's Square and the basilica on Good Friday.

Indeed, in the afternoon, the pope missed another ceremony in S. Peter's Basilica, a ceremony presided by an American cardinal on his behalf. A ceremony to recall the steps of Jesus on his way to crucifixion. That is the Liturgy of the Passion.

And later this evening, the pope is expected to miss yet another event. For the first time in his papacy, he will not be able to participate in the Way of the Cross, the procession at the Coliseum reenacting Jesus' last moments before dying.

His participation was already limited throughout recent years, first by not being able to carry out -- to carry the cross himself. Then not being able to walk. But he was always able to be there, at least, physically.

This time we understand that the Vatican has made provisions for possibly a video link-up between the Vatican and the Coliseum across Rome. But it is unclear whether or not the pope will, indeed, make an appearance. But if indeed he does, it is also unclear whether or not the pope will be able to speak. We have not heard from him, at least publicly, since he was discharged from the hospital back in mid March.

I'm Alessio Vinci, CNN, reporting from Rome.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: News around the world now.

Kyrgyzstan's president has fled the country but his exact whereabouts, a mystery. He e-mailed Kyrgyzstan's news agency that rumors of his resignation is false. Opposition leaders are forming a transitional government, though. The crisis began when protesters, angry at what they claim were fraudulent election results, overran the seat of power. Bobby Fischer has made his first move in Iceland. Shortly after the arrival there, the former chess champion -- yes you guessed it, he got a haircut. Boy, he needed it.

Fisher is settling into his new home after spending nine months in Japanese detention, fighting a U.S. deportation order. He's wanted in the United States on sanctions busting charges.

And the U.N. wants an international probe into last month's assassination of the former Lebanese prime minister, Rafik Hariri. A U.N. report says Lebanon own inquiry into the killing is flawed and inconclusive. The U.N. blames Lebanon's security services and Syria's military intelligence for failing to provide security.

PHILLIPS: While, most of the debate surrounding Terri Schiavo is about her medical condition, religious and spiritual implications also play a part. That's what I'll be discussing with my next guest, Deepak Chopra.

And then...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You feel anxious. Where are we going to go? How are we going to survive in a totally new environment?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: All right. This is the sort of story you don't see on any of the other networks, folks. We're going to take you to the islands of Tuvalu, home to 11,000 people for now. Coming up, find out why this group of islands, these coral atolls, could soon disappear.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, as the religious reflect on Jesus' death this Good Friday, many of the faithful are also giving special attention to the life and soul of Terri Schiavo. The comparison is centered around suffering and the suffering of Jesus that is commemorated on this Good Friday.

We have talked a lot about the politics surrounding the Terri Schiavo case, all the court proceedings, the protests and the paperwork, but what about Terri Schiavo, the human being, the human soul?

Dr. Deepak Chopra knows a lot about suffering. He sat by the bedsides of those who are slowly dying and has guided loved ones through the suffering process with his spiritual wisdom. He talks about it in his book, "The Deeper Wound: Recovering the Soul from Suffering." He joins us live from San Diego to talk about Terri Schiavo, Jesus Christ, the pope and how the world's religious is responding to the suffering of all three.

Great to see you, Deepak.

DR. DEEPAK CHOPRA, AUTHOR, "THE DEEPER WOUND": Great to see you, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: I guess just for our viewers and to establish where you stand on this issue, first with regard to Terri Schiavo, do you believe that she should remain on a feeding tube, or do you think what is happening now is the right decision?

CHOPRA: I think what's happening now is the right decision, but let me also say that, you know, the very fact that there's so much controversy means that nobody is 100 percent sure. You know? Because, otherwise, there wouldn't be the controversy.

Freud once said the definition of neurosis is the inability to tolerate ambiguity, ambivalence and uncertainty. So we should start with saying we really in the ultimate don't know.

But having that said, life is defined by consciousness, by perception, by cognition, by emotions, by relationships, by behavior and by biology. In her case, there's only one component there that would signify that there is some life there, and that is biology. And moreover, it's autonomic nervous system that we're looking at.

You know, you can take a human heart out. You give it the right nutrition and it can beat for a long time. That doesn't mean it's living. That's not the definition of life.

I think what we're doing right now, by withdrawing this feeding tube, is actually alleviating the suffering of many, many people and, moreover, I think what the really bad about this whole thing is, that her life and her body have become a weapon of political exploitation. And that -- that's a very sad commentary on our times.

PHILLIPS: That's a good point, and I want to talk more about that. But when we talk about Terri and is she suffering, because this is a word that has been used quite a bit lately. Is she suffering? And is she suffering mentally, physically or is she suffering more spiritually?

CHOPRA: Well, she's not suffering because, you know, suffering is in consciousness, and in the absence of consciousness, there is no suffering. If anybody is suffering, it's her parents, who can't decide, you know, who are not so -- who are having anguish. Her husband and all of the people who are attached to very rigid points of view and belief systems.

PHILLIPS: All right.

CHOPRA: There are a lot of belief systems here in contradiction.

PHILLIPS: Well, OK, then that leads me to the next point. If Terri is not suffering, then is everyone forgetting about Terri and what is best for Terri next? And is that an afterlife? Is that a conversation with God and figuring out what is next for her soul, for her being? I mean, what's your outlook with, if she were to die within an hour or two or the next day?

CHOPRA: Where I come from, Kyra, and the philosophy that I embrace is that her soul is not in her body. Her soul broadcasts through her body, just like you are not in my television box, but you are appearing and expressing yourself through my television box.

So her soul is already liberated. It's not localizing through her body, so there is nothing there that is suffering. There's an autonomic nervous system that is playing itself out. And that's only one component of how we define life. She is already liberated, and she is incubating non-locally so she can express herself again if you would just let her go.

PHILLIPS: Dr. Deepak Chopra, we're going to take a quick break. Stay with us. We're going to talk more about this, and we'll bring John Allen in from Rome, from the Vatican. As you know, he covers all issues of the Vatican. We'll take a quick break. We'll be right back.

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PHILLIPS: Just in to CNN. It's an Amber Alert we've been talking to you about, concerning a young girl from Cedar Rapids, Iowa. An Amber Alert had been issued for 10-year-old Jetseta Marie Gage.

We're now being told that a suspect is in custody. Police were looking for this man, Roger Paul Bentley. And now we are being told that he is in custody, but still no sign of the young mentally challenged girl, 10-year-old Jetseta Marie Gage. But police do have this suspect in custody.

We will keep you posted on the latest of whereabouts and what is the latest information concerning what police have been able to get from the man in custody.

Now we want to continue our conversation about Terri Schiavo. Stepping away from the political aspects of this case and looking more at the spiritual and religious side of things and how on this Good Friday, Catholics have stepped forward, in addition to a number of others from the world's faithful.

We're talking with Dr. Deepak Chopra. He is in San Diego. And along with Deepak, we'd like to bring in our John Allen. He covers all things Vatican for us. He joins us live from Rome.

And John, I want to start with you and how Roman Catholics are saying because Terri Schiavo is Catholic she is one of their own. And so today on this Good Friday, they are pointing out similarities among Terri Schiavo, Jesus Christ, the pope and the issue of suffering.

JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Yes. That's exactly right. I mean, Good Friday is, of course, for Christians today where -- where what is recalled is the suffering and death of Christ on the cross.

So it is kind of the supreme day to recall the reality of suffering in human life and God's plan. And it is, I think, a striking coincidence that on this day the eyes of the world are focused really on two suffering people: one, Terri Schiavo in the United States; the other, Pope John Paul II here. And clearly, the link goes beyond that, because a number of Vatican officials and also the Vatican's official newspaper in recent days has spoken out extremely forcefully on the Schiavo case, calling what's happening in Florida a grave sin and making very strong appeals that Schiavo's life be saved. So a very strong and I would say unusually specific Vatican intervention on this case.

PHILLIPS: Do you find that usual, Deepak? Do you think it's interesting that the Vatican is...

CHOPRA: I think it's a great paradox, actually. You know, the suffering of Christ and the suffering of the pope are suffering examples of great dignity, which has meaning for the rest of the world.

The suffering, the so-called suffering of Terri Schiavo has no dignity there. What we're doing is keeping certain autonomic functions going in the absence of any life.

So I beg to disagree. And I said earlier what has happened is that Terri Schiavo has become a weapon, literally, for political exploitation and also exploitation by religious groups.

PHILLIPS: John, what do you think about the political manipulation of religion in this case?

ALLEN: Well, look. I mean, there's no doubt that politicians of all stripes are scrambling, in a sense, to take advantage of the very deep passions that people, including people of religious belief, feel on these issues.

On the other hand, I think, you know, from the Vatican's point of view, what's at stake here is something fairly simple, and that is the defense of human life from its natural beginning to its natural end.

And I think their argument is that, once you define human worth not on the basis of simple existence but on what a human person can do, that is their ability to think, to relate, to act, then, in effect, you put whole classes of citizens at grave risk: the elderly, the sick, the weak and so forth and so on.

So for them, what's really at stake here is the integrity of human life. And that's why I call this an unusual intervention on their part, because the Vatican normally usually restricts itself to giving you general principles. They allow the interventions on specific cases to be handled by local bishops, normally. In this case, however, they're all over it.

PHILLIPS: Deepak, final word from the spiritual side. I've received a lot of e-mails: is Terri Schiavo going to heaven? Has she had communication with God or her God? And finally, when she does pass, will her parents ever hear from her again?

CHOPRA: I think the answer -- short answer to all of this is yes. All of those beliefs have a basis in religion and in the spiritual experience of many generations. So everybody should be comforted by that.

And I think we are not actually interfering when we let nature take its course. Fifty years ago or a hundred years ago, we wouldn't have this kind of intervention, because nature would have taken its course anyway.

PHILLIPS: Dr. Deepak Chopra and John Allen, our -- Rome correspondent for "The National Catholic Reporter," I thank you both. What a wonderful discussion. Thank you.

CHOPRA: Thank you, Kyra.

O'BRIEN: Prisoners in Iraq trying to tunnel their way out? We're live at the Pentagon with new details next.

PHILLIPS: And talk about missing the mark. A round fired off for avalanche control gives the neighbors a big scare instead.

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VERONICA DE LA CRUZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Do you remember the capitals of all 50 states? How about the name of your second grade teacher? Do you remember where you put your keys? Whether you know those answers or not, learn more about how memory works at CNN.com.

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From the dot com desk in Atlanta, I'm Veronica De La Cruz.

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