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8.2 Quake Strikes Off Indonesia Coast; Jackson Judge Allows Past Accusations Into Trial
Aired March 28, 2005 - 13:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And then, more striking probably, because of the amount of these allegations, there will be similar stories of four other children, a total of five then will be told through third-party witnesses, and then one of these stories will be told by the alleged victim himself.
This according to the prosecution. This is what they're promising and this is what the judge is allowing.
So very significant. One of the stories that will be told, if you will, be that of alleged abuse against a well-known child actor who was friends with Jackson as well.
So safe to say, very, bad day for the defense here. Basically losing out on this very key decision because Judge Rodney Melville thinks the jury should hear this.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: And let's go back to Jeffrey Toobin because, as you mentioned, Ted, it is a big loss for the defense especially with this ruling.
How big of a loss is it, Jeffrey, because the defense was saying once you allow this in, then the jury will obviously look at Jackson in a different light?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Right. Think what's particularly significant are these four others. Not so much the '93 alleged victim. Because the defense had an explanation for him.
In fact, that was part of the defense in this case, that the accuser in this current criminal case was modeling his litigation strategy after the '93 accuser, hiring the same lawyer, was essentially for tune hunting, the way the kid in '93 was.
What's significant here is that there are four other accusers, including one who will appear in person. Those will be harder to explain away for the defense, and that's the really big loss for Jackson today, I believe.
NGUYEN: And we're also hearing, once this has been given green light, which we understand it has, this previous testimony, these allegations.
Also two maids will be called to testify. What do you know about what they could say -- what information they could bring to light? TOOBIN: Well, I don't want to speculate. I don't think it could be all that incriminating, because the defense didn't use their statements in opening statement. I will wait to hear what they have to say.
NGUYEN: But you had mentioned just a moment ago that the defense obviously is going to argue that, in all of these cases, they could presumably be copycat cases.
TOOBIN: Well, that's right. And the defense will make the argument, if these were so serious, why didn't you go to the police or why didn't you file a civil lawsuit?
And I think the absence of the defendant -- the accusers themselves -- the fact that at least four of the five allegations will not be presented by the person who allegedly suffered abuse, that may lessen the impact somewhat. But, obviously, Jackson would rather not have to address the issues at all.
NGUYEN: And with this being allowed in court, how long is it going to make the trial now?
TOOBIN: Well, trial has actually gone faster than I think a lot of people expected. This trial I believe is now in its fifth week. People were saying it was going to be six months. I don't see any way it could last that long, but certainly this will extend the trial considerably.
NGUYEN: Jeffrey Toobin, CNN senior legal analyst, thanks for that insight -- Miles.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Once again, we have been telling you about this tremendous aftershock of the December 26th earthquake, which struck the Indian Ocean rim and kicked up that tremendous killer tsunami. All within about 2.5 hours of now, an 8.2 magnitude aftershock which, in and of itself, is a very, very large earthquake.
Of course, a lot of variables to consider here, the type of earthquake, the depth, all kinds of things that the experts will be probing in the coming hours, days, weeks and months.
I'm having a hard time trying to see what this video is on my monitor. But this is apparently fresh video from Thailand, indicating -- is the image dark or am I just on a bad monitor here?
OK. This is a dark image, folks. I have no idea what we're seeing but this is something from Thailand. Clearly middle of the night there. What we're hearing are reports of people who, at the moment felt the earthquake, they headed for the hills, which is to some degree in contrast to what we saw on December 26th.
Clearly, people still obviously suffering in the wake of the tsunami of December 26th are sensitized to this. And perhaps when all is said and done about this one, the biggest concern and the biggest problem will have been the panic which ensued as a result of the earthquake. But once again, little after 11:00 eastern time, very close, right along the same faultline -- as a matter of fact, if we can put up the key hole for one minute, I can show you where it was precisely.
If you look down at the lower part of your screen, I can show you the epicenter of the December 26th quake. And right here, the upper one, is what happened just now.
And right up here, if you take a look up here, that's Banda Aceh. And any effects of a tsunami would have been impacted almost immediately there. Once again, we have no reports of any tsunami reaching shore.
So we're watching it very closely though for you, obviously, on all parts of that region. Stay with CNN as our coverage continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Welcome back, as we cover this aftershock of the December 26th earthquake, which struck the Indian Ocean.
Let's take a look, once again, at our keyhole graphic. Before the break I had it backwards. I just wanted to clarify a point for you.
This is the epicenter of the event of December 26th. This is the epicenter of the event that occurred just a few hours ago. And just to give you a sense, that's obviously Sumatra there. That's Banda Aceh right there.
Just wanted to clarify that because I had the two transposed.
Joining us on the line right now from Jakarta, Indonesia, is Joe Cochrane. He is with "Newsweek" magazine.
Joe, what have seen, what have you heard, what have you been able to glean from where you sit?
JOE COCHRANE, "NEWSWEEK" MAGAZINE: When the earthquake struck, we didn't hear anything down here. Only the rings from our phones from colleagues in Kuala Lumpur and Singapore and also up in Aceh that something terrible had happened with the earthquake.
And considering what happened with the December 26th earthquake and tsunami, there were some extremely tense moments here of not knowing exactly what happened and whether another wall of water was on its way.
I've been in contact with friends in Banda Aceh pretty periodically over the last 30 minutes. The general chaos there seems to have totally subsided. There doesn't appear to be any tsunami on its way. If it was on its way, it certainly would have arrived by now. So things are returning to normal and people are going back to bed.
O'BRIEN: Just clarify a couple of points. First of all, you're in Jakarta, some distance away. You didn't feel anything there. All you heard were cell phone rings?
COCHRANE: Correct. yes. We're 2,000 miles...
O'BRIEN: Long way away. I just wanted to make sure that was clear, why we were talking to somebody in Jakarta.
Secondly, we are talking to an expert a little while ago. He said you have to presume, in this case, something magnitude 8 or greater, where it was that it would create a tsunami. And yet I have not heard any first-hand reports of anything. Have you?
COCHRANE: No, none at all. And we've been in touch with people in Thailand and also in west Sumatra and northern Sumatra. There have been no reports whatsoever.
Now the magnitude certainly was huge. But, obviously, 8.2 is not 9.1, which is a far greater magnitude that caused the December 26th tsunami.
O'BRIEN: Right. 20 or 30 times greater, we're told. And what we should point out for folks, another point that came out with that expert is that in Banda Aceh, that tsunami would have been almost instantaneous to the earthquake. So if there had been one, we'd have heard about it probably by now. So the only thing that we're led to believe here possibly, according to the expert I spoke to -- and I don't know if you've heard this, Joe -- it's possible the waves propagated to the south.
COCHRANE: Yes, that's what we've heard as well. I don't have any further information on that. Whether they're out at sea or whether some tiny islands off the south might have been affected at all. But, yes, that's what we've heard.
O'BRIEN: OK. Looking at the map here, I wonder if, you know, could they ultimately emanate toward Australia perhaps? I don't know. We have to check with experts on that. What are you hearing there?
COCHRANE: No word on that. I think given the large distance to Australia, if waters were to hit there, they wouldn't be of any size or speed that would cause any damage. Now certainly after the December 26th tsunami, waves levels off the coast of Florida went up very slightly, so I imagine we might -- might see something like that. But no damage.
O'BRIEN: But nothing -- nothing to underscore the point here -- Australia a long way away, nothing that would come close to what we saw on December 26th. Joe Cochrane, keep working the phones for us, keep that cell phone battery charged and we'll be back in touch. Thank you.
NGUYEN: Want to go now to Barbara Starr at the Pentagon with the latest on reaction there to this earthquake and the possible tsunamis that could occur because of that. Barbara, what do you know?
BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Betty, as the minutes do continue to tick by and, thank goodness, no apparent tsunami yet, tensions easing a little bit. But as the news came to the Pentagon just a couple of hours ago or so, certainly the watch center here, the command centers all the way from Hawaii to the Pentagon were on a state of very high notice, looking at what was going on.
Now, in the last three months or so since that catastrophic tsunami in Indonesia and the Pacific region, of course, the U.S. military presence has been reduced in the region as much of the aid and relief has been taken over by private organizations. Today, we are told, there is one Navy ship in Indonesia. That's the hospital ship Mercy. It is expected to pull into East Timor tomorrow. It has been on a humanitarian medical relief mission in the far southeastern reaches of Indonesia, a couple of thousands of miles away from where this earthquake struck.
But if there is a request in the hours and days ahead from governments in that region for any kind of additional U.S. military assistance, humanitarian relief, anything sponsored by the U.S. military, there are several U.S. Navy ships in the region.
We can tell you that there are two supply ships, the Yukon and Tippecanoe up in the Singapore region and three amphibious warships in the South China Sea essentially off the southeastern coast of Vietnam. They could be moved into that region if there is some request for earthquake relief. But as the minutes do tick by, there is a lot more hope here that this will not be a repeat of the December tragedy. Betty.
NGUYEN: All right, CNN's Barbara Starr at the Pentagon. And we do want to remind you that there has been a major ruling in the Michael Jackson case. We will be talking to some legal experts about that right after this short break. You're watching CNN LIVE FROM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Welcome back to LIVE FROM. Let's just bring you up to date on what we've been tracking for the past two and half hours plus. Rather significant aftershock. As a matter of fact, to call it an aftershock probably doesn't do it justice. This was in excess of magnitude eight which puts it in the largest of earthquake category, 8.2 magnitude earthquake. Happening very near the location of that 9.0 magnitude quake of December 26th which, as of course you know, kicked up that killer tsunami that killed literally hundreds of thousands.
Let's take a look first of all -- I want to get you in place at the location where it was. How about that other graphic first, Scott, please, if we could get the keyhole graphic up. No, that's not the one. We had another shot which showed you where it was in relation to each other. The bottom line, what I was trying to tell you was, those two earthquakes very close to each other. The one that occurred a couple of hours ago just a little bit south of the epicenter of the December 26th quake. Now -- oh there it is right there.
OK, there's the location of the quake from today; that's the December 26th quake there. And we can go back and show you those wave propagations there which Japanese -- I'm sorry, what are we showing? There it is. This -- Japanese researchers came up with this showing the tsunami wave propagation. The only reason we're showing you this is to give you a sense of the concern level and the amount of time frame that would cause that concern. There were evacuations all along the eastern coast of India and into Sri Lanka for obvious reasons.
A few hours after the December 26th event, of course, they were -- encountered that huge tsunami. No reports -- we repeat, no reports of anything like this happened on this go-round. Some researchers seem to indicate the waves might have propagated to the south. And as you can see, to the south, perhaps, out of harm's way. We're watching it very closely. Mass evacuations and in some cases reports of panic all around this region for obvious reasons. We will keep you up to date on exactly what's going on -- Betty.
NGUYEN: All right, we want to bring you up to date now on that ruling in the Michael Jackson trial. A judge has allowed past testimony from accusers who said Michael Jackson caused some sexual abuse or provoked some sexual abuse. And we want to talk to some legal experts right now to kind of just to guess what this means in this trial.
We have Drew Findling with us, who is a criminal defense attorney, and B.J. Bernstein, a former prosecutor. Drew, let's start with you. How big of a blow is this to Michael Jackson's defense?
DREW FINDLING, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think this is -- could be treated two ways. One, it's clearly a less-than-courageous decision by the judge. This has so far been a shameful prosecution, one in which the judge should have shown some courage and said, I'm not going to let you resuscitate it through this other evidence. And to that degree it did hurt.
The other way that you can look at it is as a double-edged sword. And that is, it shows the jury that for millions of dollars, somebody can use an allegation like this to profit. It also shows them that the state is relying on evidence that wasn't even strong enough to secure an indictment. So it's a double-edged sword, at least from my perspective.
NGUYEN: Because I want to ask you about that, B.J. Because if these allegations haven't come up in court before, if there were no charges made before, why are they being allowed now?
B.J. BERNSTEIN, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, the law allows what we call similar transactions, in other words, things that show motive, opportunity, the interest or bent of mind of the person accused of doing this. In other words, that Michael Jackson has a propensity to be interested in young males in this way. It doesn't require a charge; the law has never required a charge. Each individual case will be explained to the jury as to why that child didn't come forward at that point in time and why there was no criminal prosecution at that time.
NGUYEN: Do you think it's a fair ruling?
BERNSTEIN: Absolutely, 100 percent. I mean this was an expected ruling. And it's damaging -- I would disagree with Drew on one point in that, one of these accusations that's been admitted the child's family was paid a good deal money. But these other four, they didn't get money, they didn't get anything. They're just coming in and telling what happened to them. And that is brutal for Michael Jackson.
NGUYEN: But you say this could be copycat cases. These are people who could basically follow in the steps of these other cases in which they were awarded millions of dollars.
FINDLING: Yes. And we're going to have to find out the timing of when these people came forward. Did they come forward at a time when they can profit down the road? We don't know that fact.
And I would say that if they were fact patterns truly mirroring the fact pattern in this, then they would come from a family of grifters, like the purported victim does in this case, who are seeking to benefit at the expense of Michael Jackson
That would be the only similarity I can see.
NGUYEN: B.J., you're shaking your head.
BERNSTEIN: I'm shaking my head because there has always been some reports that one of these similar transactions is going to be presented is about a child celebrity.
So that's not a situation of somebody coming from a group of grifters or in the same category as the characterization of the trial going on now.
FINDLING: And I'd be curious as to whether or not it's a child actor that's trying to resuscitate his or her career.
I'm willing to bet you right now it's going to be somebody whose career has gone downhill and is trying to lift it at the expense of Michael Jackson.
NGUYEN: And quickly, grounds for appeal? Allowing this kind of testimony?
FINDLING: Clearly, when a judge demonstrates a lack of courage like the judge did in this case and doesn't stand up to the state and says, "You've had a shameful, innocuous prosecution, I'm not going to let you resuscitate it through evidence like this," that would have been better for the state for not having the case reversed down the road.
This clearly gives a great issue for appeal for the defense of Michael Jackson.
NGUYEN: B.J., last word here.
BERNSTEIN: No issue for appeal. This happens in courtrooms every day. Day in and day out. There is a specific law that lets this kind of evidence in for a reason, because people accused of molestation tend to have a pattern to do it over and over. And that's exactly what the government is trying to show.
NGUYEN: B.J. Bernstein, Andrew Findling, thank you for your time and insight -- Miles.
SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Coming up in our second hour of LIVE FROM, we'll be talking about identity theft. You'll want to stay tuned.
LIVE FROM continues after this short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: I want to bring you up to date to our developing story today. Around 11:00 Eastern time, an 8.2 magnitude earthquake struck off the coast of Indonesia.
We understand massive evacuations are under way. Thailand has ordered an evacuation of some of its six provinces. We are getting some new video right now of those evacuations.
Also there was -- the Sri Lankan government has ordered evacuations as well. We are continuing to follow this story, because experts who we spoke it just a little bit earlier said that tsunamis would occur because of this 8.2 magnitude quake. But so far none have been reported.
In fact, the Associated Press is reporting that officials on Sumatra say that there are no signs of tsunamis at this hour.
But, of course, in light of what happened on December 26th, with that huge tsunami that happened then, and that 9.0 magnitude quake that occurred at that time, all the lives that were lost, evacuations are under way at this hour.
And we of course, will continue to follow all of it. The second hour of CNN's LIVE FROM continues right after this break.
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Aired March 28, 2005 - 13:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And then, more striking probably, because of the amount of these allegations, there will be similar stories of four other children, a total of five then will be told through third-party witnesses, and then one of these stories will be told by the alleged victim himself.
This according to the prosecution. This is what they're promising and this is what the judge is allowing.
So very significant. One of the stories that will be told, if you will, be that of alleged abuse against a well-known child actor who was friends with Jackson as well.
So safe to say, very, bad day for the defense here. Basically losing out on this very key decision because Judge Rodney Melville thinks the jury should hear this.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: And let's go back to Jeffrey Toobin because, as you mentioned, Ted, it is a big loss for the defense especially with this ruling.
How big of a loss is it, Jeffrey, because the defense was saying once you allow this in, then the jury will obviously look at Jackson in a different light?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Right. Think what's particularly significant are these four others. Not so much the '93 alleged victim. Because the defense had an explanation for him.
In fact, that was part of the defense in this case, that the accuser in this current criminal case was modeling his litigation strategy after the '93 accuser, hiring the same lawyer, was essentially for tune hunting, the way the kid in '93 was.
What's significant here is that there are four other accusers, including one who will appear in person. Those will be harder to explain away for the defense, and that's the really big loss for Jackson today, I believe.
NGUYEN: And we're also hearing, once this has been given green light, which we understand it has, this previous testimony, these allegations.
Also two maids will be called to testify. What do you know about what they could say -- what information they could bring to light? TOOBIN: Well, I don't want to speculate. I don't think it could be all that incriminating, because the defense didn't use their statements in opening statement. I will wait to hear what they have to say.
NGUYEN: But you had mentioned just a moment ago that the defense obviously is going to argue that, in all of these cases, they could presumably be copycat cases.
TOOBIN: Well, that's right. And the defense will make the argument, if these were so serious, why didn't you go to the police or why didn't you file a civil lawsuit?
And I think the absence of the defendant -- the accusers themselves -- the fact that at least four of the five allegations will not be presented by the person who allegedly suffered abuse, that may lessen the impact somewhat. But, obviously, Jackson would rather not have to address the issues at all.
NGUYEN: And with this being allowed in court, how long is it going to make the trial now?
TOOBIN: Well, trial has actually gone faster than I think a lot of people expected. This trial I believe is now in its fifth week. People were saying it was going to be six months. I don't see any way it could last that long, but certainly this will extend the trial considerably.
NGUYEN: Jeffrey Toobin, CNN senior legal analyst, thanks for that insight -- Miles.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Once again, we have been telling you about this tremendous aftershock of the December 26th earthquake, which struck the Indian Ocean rim and kicked up that tremendous killer tsunami. All within about 2.5 hours of now, an 8.2 magnitude aftershock which, in and of itself, is a very, very large earthquake.
Of course, a lot of variables to consider here, the type of earthquake, the depth, all kinds of things that the experts will be probing in the coming hours, days, weeks and months.
I'm having a hard time trying to see what this video is on my monitor. But this is apparently fresh video from Thailand, indicating -- is the image dark or am I just on a bad monitor here?
OK. This is a dark image, folks. I have no idea what we're seeing but this is something from Thailand. Clearly middle of the night there. What we're hearing are reports of people who, at the moment felt the earthquake, they headed for the hills, which is to some degree in contrast to what we saw on December 26th.
Clearly, people still obviously suffering in the wake of the tsunami of December 26th are sensitized to this. And perhaps when all is said and done about this one, the biggest concern and the biggest problem will have been the panic which ensued as a result of the earthquake. But once again, little after 11:00 eastern time, very close, right along the same faultline -- as a matter of fact, if we can put up the key hole for one minute, I can show you where it was precisely.
If you look down at the lower part of your screen, I can show you the epicenter of the December 26th quake. And right here, the upper one, is what happened just now.
And right up here, if you take a look up here, that's Banda Aceh. And any effects of a tsunami would have been impacted almost immediately there. Once again, we have no reports of any tsunami reaching shore.
So we're watching it very closely though for you, obviously, on all parts of that region. Stay with CNN as our coverage continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Welcome back, as we cover this aftershock of the December 26th earthquake, which struck the Indian Ocean.
Let's take a look, once again, at our keyhole graphic. Before the break I had it backwards. I just wanted to clarify a point for you.
This is the epicenter of the event of December 26th. This is the epicenter of the event that occurred just a few hours ago. And just to give you a sense, that's obviously Sumatra there. That's Banda Aceh right there.
Just wanted to clarify that because I had the two transposed.
Joining us on the line right now from Jakarta, Indonesia, is Joe Cochrane. He is with "Newsweek" magazine.
Joe, what have seen, what have you heard, what have you been able to glean from where you sit?
JOE COCHRANE, "NEWSWEEK" MAGAZINE: When the earthquake struck, we didn't hear anything down here. Only the rings from our phones from colleagues in Kuala Lumpur and Singapore and also up in Aceh that something terrible had happened with the earthquake.
And considering what happened with the December 26th earthquake and tsunami, there were some extremely tense moments here of not knowing exactly what happened and whether another wall of water was on its way.
I've been in contact with friends in Banda Aceh pretty periodically over the last 30 minutes. The general chaos there seems to have totally subsided. There doesn't appear to be any tsunami on its way. If it was on its way, it certainly would have arrived by now. So things are returning to normal and people are going back to bed.
O'BRIEN: Just clarify a couple of points. First of all, you're in Jakarta, some distance away. You didn't feel anything there. All you heard were cell phone rings?
COCHRANE: Correct. yes. We're 2,000 miles...
O'BRIEN: Long way away. I just wanted to make sure that was clear, why we were talking to somebody in Jakarta.
Secondly, we are talking to an expert a little while ago. He said you have to presume, in this case, something magnitude 8 or greater, where it was that it would create a tsunami. And yet I have not heard any first-hand reports of anything. Have you?
COCHRANE: No, none at all. And we've been in touch with people in Thailand and also in west Sumatra and northern Sumatra. There have been no reports whatsoever.
Now the magnitude certainly was huge. But, obviously, 8.2 is not 9.1, which is a far greater magnitude that caused the December 26th tsunami.
O'BRIEN: Right. 20 or 30 times greater, we're told. And what we should point out for folks, another point that came out with that expert is that in Banda Aceh, that tsunami would have been almost instantaneous to the earthquake. So if there had been one, we'd have heard about it probably by now. So the only thing that we're led to believe here possibly, according to the expert I spoke to -- and I don't know if you've heard this, Joe -- it's possible the waves propagated to the south.
COCHRANE: Yes, that's what we've heard as well. I don't have any further information on that. Whether they're out at sea or whether some tiny islands off the south might have been affected at all. But, yes, that's what we've heard.
O'BRIEN: OK. Looking at the map here, I wonder if, you know, could they ultimately emanate toward Australia perhaps? I don't know. We have to check with experts on that. What are you hearing there?
COCHRANE: No word on that. I think given the large distance to Australia, if waters were to hit there, they wouldn't be of any size or speed that would cause any damage. Now certainly after the December 26th tsunami, waves levels off the coast of Florida went up very slightly, so I imagine we might -- might see something like that. But no damage.
O'BRIEN: But nothing -- nothing to underscore the point here -- Australia a long way away, nothing that would come close to what we saw on December 26th. Joe Cochrane, keep working the phones for us, keep that cell phone battery charged and we'll be back in touch. Thank you.
NGUYEN: Want to go now to Barbara Starr at the Pentagon with the latest on reaction there to this earthquake and the possible tsunamis that could occur because of that. Barbara, what do you know?
BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Betty, as the minutes do continue to tick by and, thank goodness, no apparent tsunami yet, tensions easing a little bit. But as the news came to the Pentagon just a couple of hours ago or so, certainly the watch center here, the command centers all the way from Hawaii to the Pentagon were on a state of very high notice, looking at what was going on.
Now, in the last three months or so since that catastrophic tsunami in Indonesia and the Pacific region, of course, the U.S. military presence has been reduced in the region as much of the aid and relief has been taken over by private organizations. Today, we are told, there is one Navy ship in Indonesia. That's the hospital ship Mercy. It is expected to pull into East Timor tomorrow. It has been on a humanitarian medical relief mission in the far southeastern reaches of Indonesia, a couple of thousands of miles away from where this earthquake struck.
But if there is a request in the hours and days ahead from governments in that region for any kind of additional U.S. military assistance, humanitarian relief, anything sponsored by the U.S. military, there are several U.S. Navy ships in the region.
We can tell you that there are two supply ships, the Yukon and Tippecanoe up in the Singapore region and three amphibious warships in the South China Sea essentially off the southeastern coast of Vietnam. They could be moved into that region if there is some request for earthquake relief. But as the minutes do tick by, there is a lot more hope here that this will not be a repeat of the December tragedy. Betty.
NGUYEN: All right, CNN's Barbara Starr at the Pentagon. And we do want to remind you that there has been a major ruling in the Michael Jackson case. We will be talking to some legal experts about that right after this short break. You're watching CNN LIVE FROM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Welcome back to LIVE FROM. Let's just bring you up to date on what we've been tracking for the past two and half hours plus. Rather significant aftershock. As a matter of fact, to call it an aftershock probably doesn't do it justice. This was in excess of magnitude eight which puts it in the largest of earthquake category, 8.2 magnitude earthquake. Happening very near the location of that 9.0 magnitude quake of December 26th which, as of course you know, kicked up that killer tsunami that killed literally hundreds of thousands.
Let's take a look first of all -- I want to get you in place at the location where it was. How about that other graphic first, Scott, please, if we could get the keyhole graphic up. No, that's not the one. We had another shot which showed you where it was in relation to each other. The bottom line, what I was trying to tell you was, those two earthquakes very close to each other. The one that occurred a couple of hours ago just a little bit south of the epicenter of the December 26th quake. Now -- oh there it is right there.
OK, there's the location of the quake from today; that's the December 26th quake there. And we can go back and show you those wave propagations there which Japanese -- I'm sorry, what are we showing? There it is. This -- Japanese researchers came up with this showing the tsunami wave propagation. The only reason we're showing you this is to give you a sense of the concern level and the amount of time frame that would cause that concern. There were evacuations all along the eastern coast of India and into Sri Lanka for obvious reasons.
A few hours after the December 26th event, of course, they were -- encountered that huge tsunami. No reports -- we repeat, no reports of anything like this happened on this go-round. Some researchers seem to indicate the waves might have propagated to the south. And as you can see, to the south, perhaps, out of harm's way. We're watching it very closely. Mass evacuations and in some cases reports of panic all around this region for obvious reasons. We will keep you up to date on exactly what's going on -- Betty.
NGUYEN: All right, we want to bring you up to date now on that ruling in the Michael Jackson trial. A judge has allowed past testimony from accusers who said Michael Jackson caused some sexual abuse or provoked some sexual abuse. And we want to talk to some legal experts right now to kind of just to guess what this means in this trial.
We have Drew Findling with us, who is a criminal defense attorney, and B.J. Bernstein, a former prosecutor. Drew, let's start with you. How big of a blow is this to Michael Jackson's defense?
DREW FINDLING, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think this is -- could be treated two ways. One, it's clearly a less-than-courageous decision by the judge. This has so far been a shameful prosecution, one in which the judge should have shown some courage and said, I'm not going to let you resuscitate it through this other evidence. And to that degree it did hurt.
The other way that you can look at it is as a double-edged sword. And that is, it shows the jury that for millions of dollars, somebody can use an allegation like this to profit. It also shows them that the state is relying on evidence that wasn't even strong enough to secure an indictment. So it's a double-edged sword, at least from my perspective.
NGUYEN: Because I want to ask you about that, B.J. Because if these allegations haven't come up in court before, if there were no charges made before, why are they being allowed now?
B.J. BERNSTEIN, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, the law allows what we call similar transactions, in other words, things that show motive, opportunity, the interest or bent of mind of the person accused of doing this. In other words, that Michael Jackson has a propensity to be interested in young males in this way. It doesn't require a charge; the law has never required a charge. Each individual case will be explained to the jury as to why that child didn't come forward at that point in time and why there was no criminal prosecution at that time.
NGUYEN: Do you think it's a fair ruling?
BERNSTEIN: Absolutely, 100 percent. I mean this was an expected ruling. And it's damaging -- I would disagree with Drew on one point in that, one of these accusations that's been admitted the child's family was paid a good deal money. But these other four, they didn't get money, they didn't get anything. They're just coming in and telling what happened to them. And that is brutal for Michael Jackson.
NGUYEN: But you say this could be copycat cases. These are people who could basically follow in the steps of these other cases in which they were awarded millions of dollars.
FINDLING: Yes. And we're going to have to find out the timing of when these people came forward. Did they come forward at a time when they can profit down the road? We don't know that fact.
And I would say that if they were fact patterns truly mirroring the fact pattern in this, then they would come from a family of grifters, like the purported victim does in this case, who are seeking to benefit at the expense of Michael Jackson
That would be the only similarity I can see.
NGUYEN: B.J., you're shaking your head.
BERNSTEIN: I'm shaking my head because there has always been some reports that one of these similar transactions is going to be presented is about a child celebrity.
So that's not a situation of somebody coming from a group of grifters or in the same category as the characterization of the trial going on now.
FINDLING: And I'd be curious as to whether or not it's a child actor that's trying to resuscitate his or her career.
I'm willing to bet you right now it's going to be somebody whose career has gone downhill and is trying to lift it at the expense of Michael Jackson.
NGUYEN: And quickly, grounds for appeal? Allowing this kind of testimony?
FINDLING: Clearly, when a judge demonstrates a lack of courage like the judge did in this case and doesn't stand up to the state and says, "You've had a shameful, innocuous prosecution, I'm not going to let you resuscitate it through evidence like this," that would have been better for the state for not having the case reversed down the road.
This clearly gives a great issue for appeal for the defense of Michael Jackson.
NGUYEN: B.J., last word here.
BERNSTEIN: No issue for appeal. This happens in courtrooms every day. Day in and day out. There is a specific law that lets this kind of evidence in for a reason, because people accused of molestation tend to have a pattern to do it over and over. And that's exactly what the government is trying to show.
NGUYEN: B.J. Bernstein, Andrew Findling, thank you for your time and insight -- Miles.
SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Coming up in our second hour of LIVE FROM, we'll be talking about identity theft. You'll want to stay tuned.
LIVE FROM continues after this short break.
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NGUYEN: I want to bring you up to date to our developing story today. Around 11:00 Eastern time, an 8.2 magnitude earthquake struck off the coast of Indonesia.
We understand massive evacuations are under way. Thailand has ordered an evacuation of some of its six provinces. We are getting some new video right now of those evacuations.
Also there was -- the Sri Lankan government has ordered evacuations as well. We are continuing to follow this story, because experts who we spoke it just a little bit earlier said that tsunamis would occur because of this 8.2 magnitude quake. But so far none have been reported.
In fact, the Associated Press is reporting that officials on Sumatra say that there are no signs of tsunamis at this hour.
But, of course, in light of what happened on December 26th, with that huge tsunami that happened then, and that 9.0 magnitude quake that occurred at that time, all the lives that were lost, evacuations are under way at this hour.
And we of course, will continue to follow all of it. The second hour of CNN's LIVE FROM continues right after this break.
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