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Sumatran Earthquake Leads to Damage But No Tsunami; Kofi Annan Criticized But Cleared of Oil-for-Food Scandal; Rumsfeld Holds Press Conference
Aired March 29, 2005 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CO-HOST: Death could be minutes or hours away. In fact, CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta says Schiavo may have reached the point where death is unavoidable, even if the tube were reinserted.
Still, with legal avenues essentially exhausted Schiavo's parents invited Jesse Jackson down to try to move mountains, and we get the very latest from CNN's Bob Franken, joining us once again from Pinellas Park -- Bob.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And right now he's moving from television interview to TV interview. He's at one of the setups right next to CNN's. He was interviewed here earlier.
Before he came out to make his public appearances, he went behind the scenes with the family. They have a little quarters that's been set up here. And got on the phone, we're told, with members of the state legislature trying to come up with some sort of legislation that might cause Terri Schiavo to live.
Now, according to the family, there is still hope, although, as you pointed out, there are others who say that death is now nearly inevitable. Jesse Jackson was invited here by the family, as I said. He came to appear before reporters and said we've seen her on television. Now she's part of our lives.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JESSE JACKSON, RAINBOW/PUSH COALITION: Without food or water for 12 days, there are vital signs. She is being starved to death. She has been dehydrated to death, and that's inhumane. It's immoral, and it is unnecessary. There is no rational reason for this to happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FRANKEN: Now, while he was speaking before the assembled reporters and their cameras and the attention of the police was focused on him, a man tried to enter the building, according to police officers, and he would not stop when they ordered him to, got to the door. They wrestled him to the ground.
According to the arrested policeman, he would not put his hands behind his back, so they tasered him. He's identified as Dow Pursely, a Bible professor in Scranton, Pennsylvania. He's been charged with attempted burglary and resisting arrest peacefully. That's the charge. It's a charge in Florida. He has been taken off to jail -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Bob, that leads me to a question about just the general mood there as time grows near to Terri's imminent death. Up until this point, you have described the protests and the arrests as choreographed, almost prearranged with the police to just, in a symbolic way, make a statement. Are things changing at this point?
FRANKEN: Well, they've been ratcheting up a little bit. Some of the relationships between the police and some of the demonstrators has turned a bit more hostile. The demonstrators have on occasion been calling the police names but until today no one had tried to do anything like this. This was somebody who was trying to sneak in, and as a result he got tasered.
O'BRIEN: All right, and one other thought here, seeing the Reverend Jesse Jackson there, there really is no reason to call in the Reverend Jackson at this point except to get some more attention. Are they truly, the Schindlers, at this point thinking that Jesse Jackson can somehow plead their case to somebody who can change things?
FRANKEN: Well, a lot of things. They've never denied that they've been trying to draw attention in any way they can. One of the concerns that they've had is that the public's perception out there has turned a bit negative because people who are not here are seeing that most of the demonstrators are from the religious right and there's a concern that religion is being imposed.
Of course, Jesse Jackson is normally described as being on the left, and so it might be an advantage for the family to have somebody on the other side of the political spectrum to say this is beyond politics.
O'BRIEN: I guess on the surface it seems like unlikely allies.
FRANKEN: Well, the Reverend Jesse Jackson has been in many, many public places, as we all know, and he would say it is beyond politics, that this is a moral issue that he would share with the conservative right and the conservative religionists.
O'BRIEN: CNN's Bob Franken in Pinellas Park, thank you very much.
At this point you probably think you know Terri Schiavo, but you're probably long. Later on LIVE FROM, CNN's Paula Zahn introduces us to Terri Schiavo, the person, before she was Terri Schiavo, the patient, or symbol or flash point. It is a remarkable story, and you'll see it here only on CNN.
BETTY NGUYEN, CO-HOST: Miles, many today are asking why no tsunami? A day after the second great earthquake in three months shook the ocean floor off the western coast of Sumatra, hundreds are dead. Damage is substantial. Aftershocks, well, they are a danger, but it could have been worse.
Experts say the force from yesterday's quake did not produce a killer wave because it was smaller and directed away from the coast. But that's little consolation to many who were spared in December, only to lose everything now.
CNN's Hugh Riminton filed this report from the region.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HUGH RIMINTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On the island of Nias, west of Sumatra, shocks, panicked and bewildered survivors. People died here in the December tsunami, but this time some say the quake felt worse.
It went on and on for at least two full minutes. People couldn't stand against the shaking, nor could so many of their homes. The quake measured 8.7, hardly less than the 9 magnitude monster that triggered the December tsunami. But despite the midnight panic to find higher ground, this time for reasons not yet fully understood, the deadly wave did not come.
Still, the Indonesian government's official disaster relief agency puts the early confirmed death toll in the hundreds on Nias and the island of Simeulue to the north.
While daylight held, U.N. and Red Cross officials working in a nearby tsunami-ravaged Aceh province of Indonesia managed an aerial reconnaissance mission. Six hundred thousand people live on this small island, most of them in villages inaccessible by road. If there are people gravely injured, emergency medical help is still a distance away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We need shelters and the government's help in rebuilding our homes. Food aid is also need because roads to the market have been cut off.
RIMINTON: Other islands scattered further down the west coast of Sumatra are even more remote.
Hugh Riminton, CNN, northern Sumatra.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NGUYEN: Now to New York, where Oil-for-Food is back on the front burner and Kofi Annan is feeling the heat, but not as much heat as Kojo Annan, son of the U.N. secretary-general, former employee of a Swiss firm hired to help implement the U.N.'s largest humanitarian aid program.
We want to get the details now from CNN's senior U.N. correspondent, Richard Roth.
Richard, bring us up to speed.
RICHARD ROTH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Paul Volcker, the man assigned to lead an investigation of the U.N.'s Oil-for-Food program with Iraq, has issued his second report. And this one dealt extensively with Kofi Annan and his son, Kojo Annan. The report was hot property for reporters gathered here at the news conference. Paul Volcker was selected by Annan to deliver this report. He may not have expected so many of the findings would be about him. But there was a lot of criticism about Kofi Annan and how he should have done more and his staff failed him in determining whether there was a conflict of interest between having his son, Kojo, work for a Swiss- based company, Cotecna, while at the same time Cotecna won a lucrative bid, the low bid in 1998 to win a contract to inspect goods going into Iraq.
For Paul Volcker, he says he -- there's still a lot more still to be investigated. He says that Kojo Annan has not exactly been cooperating. But they have not been able to talk to him for the last several months.
However, he says Kofi Annan, the U.N. secretary-general, did not do anything illegal, did not do anything improper based upon the committee's findings.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL VOLCKER, OIL-FOR-FOOD INVESTIGATOR: Diligent and extensive search of written and electronic records and intensive interviews with all of those involved have provided no evidence of any influence by the secretary-general on the bidding and selection process for humanitarian goods inspector in 1998. As I said, Cotecna won that by the fact it was indeed the low bidder by a wide margin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: Kofi Annan knew his son, Kojo, worked for Cotecna, but he was unaware, according to the report, that Cotecna did win this bid on the contracts.
However, Annan after an article appeared in "The Sunday Telegraph" in 1998 about the relationship, he asked his senior aides to look into it. In one day, in effect, came an all clear that there is nothing really wrong with this relationship, and Paul Volcker commented on that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLCKER: We think the investigation that he initiated was inadequate and his own inquiries were inadequate. That is why we are here. So far AS what he was told he was falsely told by his son and by Cotecna about the continued employment of his son after 1998.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
Roth: Minutes ago Secretary-General Annan issued a printed statement which said, "As I had always hoped and firmly believed, the inquiry has cleared me of any wrongdoing." Annan will hold a press conference later in the day -- Betty.
NGUYEN: Richard, while the report may have cleared Kofi Annan, what about Kojo Annan and Cotecna? What happens to them? ROTH: According to the report, Kojo Annan and the Cotecna company both misled, at the beginning, the investigators, and Kojo Annan misled his father. A few months ago, Kofi Annan told me he was disappointed in his son.
The report says that Kojo Annan made sure that investigators and others, including his father, didn't know of other payments made by Cotecna but through other companies that eventually the committee found out about.
NGUYEN: But will they face any charges?
ROTH: Well, Kojo Annan, as Paul Volcker said, is a Nigerian citizen. There's no subpoena power. It will be up to either a grand jury in New York and others who may be pursuing this, or at least five other congressional committees to do something.
Paul Volcker was investigating the U.N. His report goes on to other companies and others who may be linked to Oil-for-Food in the summer.
NGUYEN: All right. CNN's Richard Roth, thank you for that -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: We're moments away from a live briefing at the Pentagon. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, vice chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, General Peter Pace, expected to be there. We'll bring it to you as it happens. You saw the live picture there a moment ago.
Also ahead, our picture of the day, shall we dance? We couldn't decide whether it was the prime minister polka or the movie star mamba. You decide a little later on LIVE FROM.
ANNOUNCER: You're watching LIVE FROM on CNN, the most trusted name in news.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(WEATHER REPORT)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: Here's the latest news from Iraq right now.
In Baghdad, the transitional national assembly failed again today to choose a speaker, president, prime minister and cabinet to establish a government. But if at first you don't succeed, the interim national security adviser tells CNN, the 275-member body will try again on Sunday.
Also in Baghdad, three Romanian journalists were kidnapped Monday night, according to their employer and a western security source. Reuters news agency reports the three managed to send desperate text messages to relatives and colleagues just before they disappeared. And in Kirkuk more violence as a car bombing kills one person and wounds more than a dozen others. That blast reportedly happened near a police convoy.
O'BRIEN: Even as Iraq struggles to get its fledgling democracy off the ground, President Bush continues to offer encouragement and kudos to its citizens. Today he invited a group of Iraqis to the White House Rose Garden to acknowledge them in taking part of their country's first free elections.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Freedom is the birthright and deep desire of every human soul, and spreading freedom's blessings is the calling of our time. And when freedom and democracy take root in the Middle East, America and the world will be safer and more peaceful.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: We're going to take you live to the Pentagon very shortly. Let's take a look at the signal there, the podium where secretary of defense Donald Rumsfeld and the vice chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, Marine General Peter Pace, will be addressing reporters, taking some questions very shortly. As soon as it happens we'll bring it to you live, of course, right here on CNN. Stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NGUYEN (voice-over): Later on LIVE FROM a freak accident severs a little boy's hands and one of his feet. A team of surgeons springs into action with amazing results.
And an incredible scam. A woman sues her ex for child support. Not only is the child not his; the girl doesn't even exist. Find out how the woman got caught.
If you think you're a smart shopper? Think again. Inside the food marketers' tricks of the trade to get you to grab their goods.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Live at the Pentagon, the secretary of defense.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
DONALD RUMSFELD, U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: He delayed for a period leaving the -- as I recall, correct me if I'm wrong -- leaving the 4th I.D. up north in the water for the reason of leaving Saddam Hussein with the impression that we wouldn't do anything until that division was available. And he knew it was not available.
And it turned out General Franks decided to do something notwithstanding the fact that that division was not available, and therefore he achieved some advantage, a surprise, not strategic surprise, but tactical surprise.
Almost instantaneously after the initiation of the conflict, it was clear we weren't going to be able to get that division in the north, and it was sent south and came in from the south.
(CROSSTALK)
PETER PACE, VICE CHAIR, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: Exactly right.
QUESTION: So you were not blaming -- just to make it clear -- you were not blaming the Turks...
RUMSFELD: I wasn't at all. They're a sovereign nation, they make their own decision. And that's why I was so diplomatic in how I said it.
QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, human rights groups continue to criticize what they described as systematic abuses in the interrogation process. The ACLU today released a memo they obtained from the Army by General Sanchez in September '93, and they said that contained 12 techniques that far exceeded -- interrogation techniques -- far exceeded limits established by the Army's own field manual.
Human Rights Watch issued a release today talking about a case of a Yemeni businessman. They're saying this is reverse rendition, in which he was arrested by the Egyptians and then rendered to Guantanamo.
And the quote on that is: "The Bush administration continues to believe that by invoking the word terror it can detain anyone in any corner of the world without any oversight."
And I wonder if you would just respond to the suggestion that there is a systemic problem rather than the kinds of individual abuses we've heard of before?
RUMSFELD: I don't believe there's been a single one of the investigations that have been conducted, which has got to be six, seven, eight or nine...
PACE: Ten major reviews and 300 individual investigations of one kind or another.
RUMSFELD: And have you seen one that characterized it as systematic or systemic?
PACE: No, sir.
RUMSFELD: I haven't either.
QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, are you frustrated in the least that the Iraqis have failed to reach an agreement to install a new government?
Today, the national assembly again failed to elect a speaker to parliament and two deputies.
And is there a concern that as this political limbo drags on that it affects the security situation on the ground?
RUMSFELD: This limbo business is really gaining currency here today, isn't it?
(LAUGHTER)
That's nice.
"Frustrated" is not a word I would use to characterize my feelings.
How would I characterize it? Well, dictatorships have the characteristic of being efficient. They don't have to worry about the press. They don't have to worry about parliaments. They don't have to worry about a court system. They just do things efficiently, immediately, poorly but quickly.
The Iraqis are on a path to develop a constitution in a year. It took us from 1776 to 1789.
We have our elections the first week in November. And we end up putting a Congress in place the first week of January that then begins the process of figuring out who is on what committee and how do we do that, and we don't even put a president in place until January 20th.
What is all -- what's happening over there?
What's happening over there is politics. People voted January 30th. They are not skilled at that. They don't do this every two years or every four years as we do in our country. They haven't done it for decades. And if they did do it, it was a put-up arrangement where 98 percent of the people voted exactly the way they were told and the others were punished.
So what do we think about all this?
Well, we think that they had a governing council. They then had an interim government.
They are now going to, some time in the next day, week, whatever, have a transitional government.
They're then going to develop a constitution. They're then going to have a referendum and vote on the constitution by the Iraqi people, and then they are going to have another election under the new constitution and have a permanent Iraqi government.
Will they get there? Sure. Is it going to be as efficient as a dictatorship? No.
Is it going to be vastly more desirable? You bet. Is there going to be a tug and a pull and a debate and argument and, "What about this and what about that?" Sure, it will be, and it's going on right now. And it's tough stuff, because there's a lot at stake.
Those people are deeply concerned about the rights and minorities. And they have every right to be, because they've lived in a society that did not respect the rights of minorities.
Now, what are our concerns? Our concerns are, sure, it would be preferable if they would sort through that in a reasonable time period. And we hope and believe they will.
It also would be preferable if the people that went into office were competent and capable of conducting themselves in a way that would assure that the funds that are being spent by the Iraqi people and the international community including the United States are spent in an intelligent efficient way without corruptions.
It's preferable that, with respect to the security forces, that they behave in a way, in terms of selecting ministers and leadership and those ministries, that there isn't a lot of turbulence, because we've spent a lot of time and effort trying to develop the security forces. And they've got a big task, if they're going to take over responsibility for security in that country.
So the United States has an interest. But we're not about to go in and say, "This person should be that, and another person should be this." We are going to say what the president said from the outset: that we expect that to be a system of government that's representative of the people, that's respectful of the various religions and diversity within that country, that's respectful of women and the rights they have, that it's at peace with its neighbors and is a single nation, whole and free.
And that's our interest.
QUESTION: But do you believe, from what you're hearing that there are Sunni leaders that are willing to step up?
RUMSFELD: You bet.
QUESTION: And take...
RUMSFELD: Not only are there Sunnis stepping up, willing to step up; they are stepping up. And, second, the Shia and the Kurds that did participate more fully in the elections are wanting them to step up.
So the signals that are going out are positive. That's a good thing. And I think one ought not to spend a lot of time wringing our hands over it. I think it'll get sorted out.
QUESTION: On January 17th before the Defense Appropriations Subcommittee, you told Congresswoman Granger that this upcoming BRAC may not be as severe or as extensive, rather, as previously indicated.
Can you tell us anything about how much smaller, less extensive it might be... RUMSFELD: No. It's still open. And I don't know if I'd use the word "severe."
QUESTION: I correct...
RUMSFELD: Good. That implies -- that's pejorative. A BRAC is a good thing. It says to the taxpayers of America, "By golly, we care about your dollars. And we're going to see that the dollars are spent in an intelligent way on things that are actually needed, rather than wasted funds."
So it's a good thing, this BRAC.
QUESTION: Another question on the ACLU: The Defense Department has resisted their request for documents, saying national security would be harmed through the release of them, but court decisions have come down and DOD has been forced to release these documents.
Can you give us some examples how national security has been harmed?
RUMSFELD: I can't. The lawyers go through all of that, and they make the decisions. And they respond in various ways and do what they're supposed to do legally.
QUESTION: Do you have any regrets having sponsored FOIA legislation back when you were in Congress?
RUMSFELD: I was young.
(LAUGHTER)
No, I don't, really, I believe in freedom of information. And I was an early sponsor of that legislation with Congressman John Moss, now deceased. And it has been changed significantly over the decades, and it doesn't conform exactly to what I originally recommended.
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)
RUMSFELD: But...
QUESTION: Better.
RUMSFELD: ... vastly better.
(LAUGHTER)
QUESTION: Sir, just one question. What the ACLU has been contending is that DOD is not holding back these documents out of fear of national security, but rather fear of embarrassment. Do you think that that's...
RUMSFELD: That's just not true.
I mean, I shouldn't say it's not true; I just don't know. But I can't imagine it's true because the orders and directions we've given is to have full transparency to the extent it's consistent with national security interests of the country. And if anyone can validate that allegation, I'd be happy to look into it, but I doubt that they can.
It sounds like a political charge.
QUESTION: Sir, just to get back to the question a moment ago about BRAC, you've been quoted any number of times as saying, estimating that the department has roughly 20 percent to 25 percent excess infrastructure.
Would you care to share with us a number of how much excess there will be at the end of this BRAC? Would you expect that it would all be gone or would there still be five or 10 or some other percentage of excess when we're done?
RUMSFELD: Well, first of all, I don't know that I've said that we have 20 percent to 25 percent excess.
I think I've referred to studies that were made back in the Clinton administration that suggested that that was the ballpark range of what was excess. We have not done a new study to determine what those numbers are because we didn't feel that it was worthwhile.
So I have, I think, almost always referenced those earlier studies from the 1990s as the base 20 percent to 25 percent range. And I don't believe I've ever asserted that I necessarily believed it. I just quoted it.
And, second, the fact that we're bringing so many forces home from overseas reduces that number.
Third, it looks now like the actual number will be less than the lower end of that range. How much less remains to be seen. We'll know in good time. The process is moving along. It's fully transparent.
After those decisions are made, it'll be announced and people will be able to take a good look at that.
QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, there are a number of key positions in the Defense Department that are -- where people are either leaving or have left.
Yesterday it was announced that DOD is going to be taking over oversight of a number of programs in the Air Force, and...
RUMSFELD: OSD is.
QUESTION: That's right.
So I'm wondering what are you doing to fill these positions, and is it reaching a point where it's creating problems?
RUMSFELD: It has been at a point where it makes life very difficult for four years. We've functioned basically somewhere between 15 percent and 25 percent vacant in the 47 presidential- appointee, Senate-confirmed people in this department.
If you have a constitutional requirement for civilian control of the military and you have 47 presidential appointees that are Senate confirmed, that is a very thin veneer of civilian control.
And to the extent that is on an ongoing basis averaging over the past four years something like 15 percent to 25 percent vacant at any given time, that really reduces the grip and the traction one has.
It has been a problem. It is a problem, and we work it. There are delays in fine-talking people into coming into the government. There are delays in the ethics approval process. There are people who get all the way through that and then fall out because they aren't able to comply.
There are delays in FBI clearances. There are delays in the Senate confirmation process, in some cases as long as a year, a year and a quarter.
Now, all of that combined is what causes it. I've said this from this podium a number of times. The process today is not working well.
Now, "What am I doing about it?" you asked, as I recall. A lot.
I have told everyone who works around me with any yelling distance that my single biggest priority is people.
And we, Dick Myers and Pete Pace and Paul Wolfowitz and I, have been meeting three and four times a week on civilian and military personnel. And we have been working it hard. We are working it every day. I am on the phone every day talking to people. I'm in the office interviewing people. We have meetings to see where we are. We've got a team of people working on the thing.
There no way this department can function effectively if you don't have the people you need to do those jobs.
QUESTION: Have you recommended replacements for the deputy secretary slot?
(INTERRUPTING LIVE EVENT)
O'BRIEN: Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, along with the vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Peter Pace, taking a series of questions taking a series of questions. All over the map today, talking about the political process in Iraq, talking about the base realignment and closure committee and filling some positions there at the Pentagon. Back with more LIVE FROM in just a moment.
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Aired March 29, 2005 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CO-HOST: Death could be minutes or hours away. In fact, CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta says Schiavo may have reached the point where death is unavoidable, even if the tube were reinserted.
Still, with legal avenues essentially exhausted Schiavo's parents invited Jesse Jackson down to try to move mountains, and we get the very latest from CNN's Bob Franken, joining us once again from Pinellas Park -- Bob.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And right now he's moving from television interview to TV interview. He's at one of the setups right next to CNN's. He was interviewed here earlier.
Before he came out to make his public appearances, he went behind the scenes with the family. They have a little quarters that's been set up here. And got on the phone, we're told, with members of the state legislature trying to come up with some sort of legislation that might cause Terri Schiavo to live.
Now, according to the family, there is still hope, although, as you pointed out, there are others who say that death is now nearly inevitable. Jesse Jackson was invited here by the family, as I said. He came to appear before reporters and said we've seen her on television. Now she's part of our lives.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JESSE JACKSON, RAINBOW/PUSH COALITION: Without food or water for 12 days, there are vital signs. She is being starved to death. She has been dehydrated to death, and that's inhumane. It's immoral, and it is unnecessary. There is no rational reason for this to happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FRANKEN: Now, while he was speaking before the assembled reporters and their cameras and the attention of the police was focused on him, a man tried to enter the building, according to police officers, and he would not stop when they ordered him to, got to the door. They wrestled him to the ground.
According to the arrested policeman, he would not put his hands behind his back, so they tasered him. He's identified as Dow Pursely, a Bible professor in Scranton, Pennsylvania. He's been charged with attempted burglary and resisting arrest peacefully. That's the charge. It's a charge in Florida. He has been taken off to jail -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Bob, that leads me to a question about just the general mood there as time grows near to Terri's imminent death. Up until this point, you have described the protests and the arrests as choreographed, almost prearranged with the police to just, in a symbolic way, make a statement. Are things changing at this point?
FRANKEN: Well, they've been ratcheting up a little bit. Some of the relationships between the police and some of the demonstrators has turned a bit more hostile. The demonstrators have on occasion been calling the police names but until today no one had tried to do anything like this. This was somebody who was trying to sneak in, and as a result he got tasered.
O'BRIEN: All right, and one other thought here, seeing the Reverend Jesse Jackson there, there really is no reason to call in the Reverend Jackson at this point except to get some more attention. Are they truly, the Schindlers, at this point thinking that Jesse Jackson can somehow plead their case to somebody who can change things?
FRANKEN: Well, a lot of things. They've never denied that they've been trying to draw attention in any way they can. One of the concerns that they've had is that the public's perception out there has turned a bit negative because people who are not here are seeing that most of the demonstrators are from the religious right and there's a concern that religion is being imposed.
Of course, Jesse Jackson is normally described as being on the left, and so it might be an advantage for the family to have somebody on the other side of the political spectrum to say this is beyond politics.
O'BRIEN: I guess on the surface it seems like unlikely allies.
FRANKEN: Well, the Reverend Jesse Jackson has been in many, many public places, as we all know, and he would say it is beyond politics, that this is a moral issue that he would share with the conservative right and the conservative religionists.
O'BRIEN: CNN's Bob Franken in Pinellas Park, thank you very much.
At this point you probably think you know Terri Schiavo, but you're probably long. Later on LIVE FROM, CNN's Paula Zahn introduces us to Terri Schiavo, the person, before she was Terri Schiavo, the patient, or symbol or flash point. It is a remarkable story, and you'll see it here only on CNN.
BETTY NGUYEN, CO-HOST: Miles, many today are asking why no tsunami? A day after the second great earthquake in three months shook the ocean floor off the western coast of Sumatra, hundreds are dead. Damage is substantial. Aftershocks, well, they are a danger, but it could have been worse.
Experts say the force from yesterday's quake did not produce a killer wave because it was smaller and directed away from the coast. But that's little consolation to many who were spared in December, only to lose everything now.
CNN's Hugh Riminton filed this report from the region.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HUGH RIMINTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On the island of Nias, west of Sumatra, shocks, panicked and bewildered survivors. People died here in the December tsunami, but this time some say the quake felt worse.
It went on and on for at least two full minutes. People couldn't stand against the shaking, nor could so many of their homes. The quake measured 8.7, hardly less than the 9 magnitude monster that triggered the December tsunami. But despite the midnight panic to find higher ground, this time for reasons not yet fully understood, the deadly wave did not come.
Still, the Indonesian government's official disaster relief agency puts the early confirmed death toll in the hundreds on Nias and the island of Simeulue to the north.
While daylight held, U.N. and Red Cross officials working in a nearby tsunami-ravaged Aceh province of Indonesia managed an aerial reconnaissance mission. Six hundred thousand people live on this small island, most of them in villages inaccessible by road. If there are people gravely injured, emergency medical help is still a distance away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We need shelters and the government's help in rebuilding our homes. Food aid is also need because roads to the market have been cut off.
RIMINTON: Other islands scattered further down the west coast of Sumatra are even more remote.
Hugh Riminton, CNN, northern Sumatra.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NGUYEN: Now to New York, where Oil-for-Food is back on the front burner and Kofi Annan is feeling the heat, but not as much heat as Kojo Annan, son of the U.N. secretary-general, former employee of a Swiss firm hired to help implement the U.N.'s largest humanitarian aid program.
We want to get the details now from CNN's senior U.N. correspondent, Richard Roth.
Richard, bring us up to speed.
RICHARD ROTH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Paul Volcker, the man assigned to lead an investigation of the U.N.'s Oil-for-Food program with Iraq, has issued his second report. And this one dealt extensively with Kofi Annan and his son, Kojo Annan. The report was hot property for reporters gathered here at the news conference. Paul Volcker was selected by Annan to deliver this report. He may not have expected so many of the findings would be about him. But there was a lot of criticism about Kofi Annan and how he should have done more and his staff failed him in determining whether there was a conflict of interest between having his son, Kojo, work for a Swiss- based company, Cotecna, while at the same time Cotecna won a lucrative bid, the low bid in 1998 to win a contract to inspect goods going into Iraq.
For Paul Volcker, he says he -- there's still a lot more still to be investigated. He says that Kojo Annan has not exactly been cooperating. But they have not been able to talk to him for the last several months.
However, he says Kofi Annan, the U.N. secretary-general, did not do anything illegal, did not do anything improper based upon the committee's findings.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL VOLCKER, OIL-FOR-FOOD INVESTIGATOR: Diligent and extensive search of written and electronic records and intensive interviews with all of those involved have provided no evidence of any influence by the secretary-general on the bidding and selection process for humanitarian goods inspector in 1998. As I said, Cotecna won that by the fact it was indeed the low bidder by a wide margin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: Kofi Annan knew his son, Kojo, worked for Cotecna, but he was unaware, according to the report, that Cotecna did win this bid on the contracts.
However, Annan after an article appeared in "The Sunday Telegraph" in 1998 about the relationship, he asked his senior aides to look into it. In one day, in effect, came an all clear that there is nothing really wrong with this relationship, and Paul Volcker commented on that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLCKER: We think the investigation that he initiated was inadequate and his own inquiries were inadequate. That is why we are here. So far AS what he was told he was falsely told by his son and by Cotecna about the continued employment of his son after 1998.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
Roth: Minutes ago Secretary-General Annan issued a printed statement which said, "As I had always hoped and firmly believed, the inquiry has cleared me of any wrongdoing." Annan will hold a press conference later in the day -- Betty.
NGUYEN: Richard, while the report may have cleared Kofi Annan, what about Kojo Annan and Cotecna? What happens to them? ROTH: According to the report, Kojo Annan and the Cotecna company both misled, at the beginning, the investigators, and Kojo Annan misled his father. A few months ago, Kofi Annan told me he was disappointed in his son.
The report says that Kojo Annan made sure that investigators and others, including his father, didn't know of other payments made by Cotecna but through other companies that eventually the committee found out about.
NGUYEN: But will they face any charges?
ROTH: Well, Kojo Annan, as Paul Volcker said, is a Nigerian citizen. There's no subpoena power. It will be up to either a grand jury in New York and others who may be pursuing this, or at least five other congressional committees to do something.
Paul Volcker was investigating the U.N. His report goes on to other companies and others who may be linked to Oil-for-Food in the summer.
NGUYEN: All right. CNN's Richard Roth, thank you for that -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: We're moments away from a live briefing at the Pentagon. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, vice chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, General Peter Pace, expected to be there. We'll bring it to you as it happens. You saw the live picture there a moment ago.
Also ahead, our picture of the day, shall we dance? We couldn't decide whether it was the prime minister polka or the movie star mamba. You decide a little later on LIVE FROM.
ANNOUNCER: You're watching LIVE FROM on CNN, the most trusted name in news.
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(WEATHER REPORT)
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NGUYEN: Here's the latest news from Iraq right now.
In Baghdad, the transitional national assembly failed again today to choose a speaker, president, prime minister and cabinet to establish a government. But if at first you don't succeed, the interim national security adviser tells CNN, the 275-member body will try again on Sunday.
Also in Baghdad, three Romanian journalists were kidnapped Monday night, according to their employer and a western security source. Reuters news agency reports the three managed to send desperate text messages to relatives and colleagues just before they disappeared. And in Kirkuk more violence as a car bombing kills one person and wounds more than a dozen others. That blast reportedly happened near a police convoy.
O'BRIEN: Even as Iraq struggles to get its fledgling democracy off the ground, President Bush continues to offer encouragement and kudos to its citizens. Today he invited a group of Iraqis to the White House Rose Garden to acknowledge them in taking part of their country's first free elections.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Freedom is the birthright and deep desire of every human soul, and spreading freedom's blessings is the calling of our time. And when freedom and democracy take root in the Middle East, America and the world will be safer and more peaceful.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: We're going to take you live to the Pentagon very shortly. Let's take a look at the signal there, the podium where secretary of defense Donald Rumsfeld and the vice chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, Marine General Peter Pace, will be addressing reporters, taking some questions very shortly. As soon as it happens we'll bring it to you live, of course, right here on CNN. Stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NGUYEN (voice-over): Later on LIVE FROM a freak accident severs a little boy's hands and one of his feet. A team of surgeons springs into action with amazing results.
And an incredible scam. A woman sues her ex for child support. Not only is the child not his; the girl doesn't even exist. Find out how the woman got caught.
If you think you're a smart shopper? Think again. Inside the food marketers' tricks of the trade to get you to grab their goods.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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O'BRIEN: Live at the Pentagon, the secretary of defense.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
DONALD RUMSFELD, U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: He delayed for a period leaving the -- as I recall, correct me if I'm wrong -- leaving the 4th I.D. up north in the water for the reason of leaving Saddam Hussein with the impression that we wouldn't do anything until that division was available. And he knew it was not available.
And it turned out General Franks decided to do something notwithstanding the fact that that division was not available, and therefore he achieved some advantage, a surprise, not strategic surprise, but tactical surprise.
Almost instantaneously after the initiation of the conflict, it was clear we weren't going to be able to get that division in the north, and it was sent south and came in from the south.
(CROSSTALK)
PETER PACE, VICE CHAIR, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: Exactly right.
QUESTION: So you were not blaming -- just to make it clear -- you were not blaming the Turks...
RUMSFELD: I wasn't at all. They're a sovereign nation, they make their own decision. And that's why I was so diplomatic in how I said it.
QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, human rights groups continue to criticize what they described as systematic abuses in the interrogation process. The ACLU today released a memo they obtained from the Army by General Sanchez in September '93, and they said that contained 12 techniques that far exceeded -- interrogation techniques -- far exceeded limits established by the Army's own field manual.
Human Rights Watch issued a release today talking about a case of a Yemeni businessman. They're saying this is reverse rendition, in which he was arrested by the Egyptians and then rendered to Guantanamo.
And the quote on that is: "The Bush administration continues to believe that by invoking the word terror it can detain anyone in any corner of the world without any oversight."
And I wonder if you would just respond to the suggestion that there is a systemic problem rather than the kinds of individual abuses we've heard of before?
RUMSFELD: I don't believe there's been a single one of the investigations that have been conducted, which has got to be six, seven, eight or nine...
PACE: Ten major reviews and 300 individual investigations of one kind or another.
RUMSFELD: And have you seen one that characterized it as systematic or systemic?
PACE: No, sir.
RUMSFELD: I haven't either.
QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, are you frustrated in the least that the Iraqis have failed to reach an agreement to install a new government?
Today, the national assembly again failed to elect a speaker to parliament and two deputies.
And is there a concern that as this political limbo drags on that it affects the security situation on the ground?
RUMSFELD: This limbo business is really gaining currency here today, isn't it?
(LAUGHTER)
That's nice.
"Frustrated" is not a word I would use to characterize my feelings.
How would I characterize it? Well, dictatorships have the characteristic of being efficient. They don't have to worry about the press. They don't have to worry about parliaments. They don't have to worry about a court system. They just do things efficiently, immediately, poorly but quickly.
The Iraqis are on a path to develop a constitution in a year. It took us from 1776 to 1789.
We have our elections the first week in November. And we end up putting a Congress in place the first week of January that then begins the process of figuring out who is on what committee and how do we do that, and we don't even put a president in place until January 20th.
What is all -- what's happening over there?
What's happening over there is politics. People voted January 30th. They are not skilled at that. They don't do this every two years or every four years as we do in our country. They haven't done it for decades. And if they did do it, it was a put-up arrangement where 98 percent of the people voted exactly the way they were told and the others were punished.
So what do we think about all this?
Well, we think that they had a governing council. They then had an interim government.
They are now going to, some time in the next day, week, whatever, have a transitional government.
They're then going to develop a constitution. They're then going to have a referendum and vote on the constitution by the Iraqi people, and then they are going to have another election under the new constitution and have a permanent Iraqi government.
Will they get there? Sure. Is it going to be as efficient as a dictatorship? No.
Is it going to be vastly more desirable? You bet. Is there going to be a tug and a pull and a debate and argument and, "What about this and what about that?" Sure, it will be, and it's going on right now. And it's tough stuff, because there's a lot at stake.
Those people are deeply concerned about the rights and minorities. And they have every right to be, because they've lived in a society that did not respect the rights of minorities.
Now, what are our concerns? Our concerns are, sure, it would be preferable if they would sort through that in a reasonable time period. And we hope and believe they will.
It also would be preferable if the people that went into office were competent and capable of conducting themselves in a way that would assure that the funds that are being spent by the Iraqi people and the international community including the United States are spent in an intelligent efficient way without corruptions.
It's preferable that, with respect to the security forces, that they behave in a way, in terms of selecting ministers and leadership and those ministries, that there isn't a lot of turbulence, because we've spent a lot of time and effort trying to develop the security forces. And they've got a big task, if they're going to take over responsibility for security in that country.
So the United States has an interest. But we're not about to go in and say, "This person should be that, and another person should be this." We are going to say what the president said from the outset: that we expect that to be a system of government that's representative of the people, that's respectful of the various religions and diversity within that country, that's respectful of women and the rights they have, that it's at peace with its neighbors and is a single nation, whole and free.
And that's our interest.
QUESTION: But do you believe, from what you're hearing that there are Sunni leaders that are willing to step up?
RUMSFELD: You bet.
QUESTION: And take...
RUMSFELD: Not only are there Sunnis stepping up, willing to step up; they are stepping up. And, second, the Shia and the Kurds that did participate more fully in the elections are wanting them to step up.
So the signals that are going out are positive. That's a good thing. And I think one ought not to spend a lot of time wringing our hands over it. I think it'll get sorted out.
QUESTION: On January 17th before the Defense Appropriations Subcommittee, you told Congresswoman Granger that this upcoming BRAC may not be as severe or as extensive, rather, as previously indicated.
Can you tell us anything about how much smaller, less extensive it might be... RUMSFELD: No. It's still open. And I don't know if I'd use the word "severe."
QUESTION: I correct...
RUMSFELD: Good. That implies -- that's pejorative. A BRAC is a good thing. It says to the taxpayers of America, "By golly, we care about your dollars. And we're going to see that the dollars are spent in an intelligent way on things that are actually needed, rather than wasted funds."
So it's a good thing, this BRAC.
QUESTION: Another question on the ACLU: The Defense Department has resisted their request for documents, saying national security would be harmed through the release of them, but court decisions have come down and DOD has been forced to release these documents.
Can you give us some examples how national security has been harmed?
RUMSFELD: I can't. The lawyers go through all of that, and they make the decisions. And they respond in various ways and do what they're supposed to do legally.
QUESTION: Do you have any regrets having sponsored FOIA legislation back when you were in Congress?
RUMSFELD: I was young.
(LAUGHTER)
No, I don't, really, I believe in freedom of information. And I was an early sponsor of that legislation with Congressman John Moss, now deceased. And it has been changed significantly over the decades, and it doesn't conform exactly to what I originally recommended.
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)
RUMSFELD: But...
QUESTION: Better.
RUMSFELD: ... vastly better.
(LAUGHTER)
QUESTION: Sir, just one question. What the ACLU has been contending is that DOD is not holding back these documents out of fear of national security, but rather fear of embarrassment. Do you think that that's...
RUMSFELD: That's just not true.
I mean, I shouldn't say it's not true; I just don't know. But I can't imagine it's true because the orders and directions we've given is to have full transparency to the extent it's consistent with national security interests of the country. And if anyone can validate that allegation, I'd be happy to look into it, but I doubt that they can.
It sounds like a political charge.
QUESTION: Sir, just to get back to the question a moment ago about BRAC, you've been quoted any number of times as saying, estimating that the department has roughly 20 percent to 25 percent excess infrastructure.
Would you care to share with us a number of how much excess there will be at the end of this BRAC? Would you expect that it would all be gone or would there still be five or 10 or some other percentage of excess when we're done?
RUMSFELD: Well, first of all, I don't know that I've said that we have 20 percent to 25 percent excess.
I think I've referred to studies that were made back in the Clinton administration that suggested that that was the ballpark range of what was excess. We have not done a new study to determine what those numbers are because we didn't feel that it was worthwhile.
So I have, I think, almost always referenced those earlier studies from the 1990s as the base 20 percent to 25 percent range. And I don't believe I've ever asserted that I necessarily believed it. I just quoted it.
And, second, the fact that we're bringing so many forces home from overseas reduces that number.
Third, it looks now like the actual number will be less than the lower end of that range. How much less remains to be seen. We'll know in good time. The process is moving along. It's fully transparent.
After those decisions are made, it'll be announced and people will be able to take a good look at that.
QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, there are a number of key positions in the Defense Department that are -- where people are either leaving or have left.
Yesterday it was announced that DOD is going to be taking over oversight of a number of programs in the Air Force, and...
RUMSFELD: OSD is.
QUESTION: That's right.
So I'm wondering what are you doing to fill these positions, and is it reaching a point where it's creating problems?
RUMSFELD: It has been at a point where it makes life very difficult for four years. We've functioned basically somewhere between 15 percent and 25 percent vacant in the 47 presidential- appointee, Senate-confirmed people in this department.
If you have a constitutional requirement for civilian control of the military and you have 47 presidential appointees that are Senate confirmed, that is a very thin veneer of civilian control.
And to the extent that is on an ongoing basis averaging over the past four years something like 15 percent to 25 percent vacant at any given time, that really reduces the grip and the traction one has.
It has been a problem. It is a problem, and we work it. There are delays in fine-talking people into coming into the government. There are delays in the ethics approval process. There are people who get all the way through that and then fall out because they aren't able to comply.
There are delays in FBI clearances. There are delays in the Senate confirmation process, in some cases as long as a year, a year and a quarter.
Now, all of that combined is what causes it. I've said this from this podium a number of times. The process today is not working well.
Now, "What am I doing about it?" you asked, as I recall. A lot.
I have told everyone who works around me with any yelling distance that my single biggest priority is people.
And we, Dick Myers and Pete Pace and Paul Wolfowitz and I, have been meeting three and four times a week on civilian and military personnel. And we have been working it hard. We are working it every day. I am on the phone every day talking to people. I'm in the office interviewing people. We have meetings to see where we are. We've got a team of people working on the thing.
There no way this department can function effectively if you don't have the people you need to do those jobs.
QUESTION: Have you recommended replacements for the deputy secretary slot?
(INTERRUPTING LIVE EVENT)
O'BRIEN: Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, along with the vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Peter Pace, taking a series of questions taking a series of questions. All over the map today, talking about the political process in Iraq, talking about the base realignment and closure committee and filling some positions there at the Pentagon. Back with more LIVE FROM in just a moment.
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