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The Pope's Health; Remembering Johnnie Cochran

Aired March 30, 2005 - 13:31   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Checking stories in the news, still awaiting a ruling from the 11th Circuit Court on whether it will rehear a claim brought by Terri Schiavo's parents. In the meantime, CNN has confirmed Florida Governor Jeb Bush met a short time ago with the Reverend Jesse Jackson, who has taken up the cause of Bob and Mary Schindler.
As the pope blessed visitors from his balcony this morning, the Vatican released a statement saying he is being fed through a nasal gastric tube. Officials say the feeding tube is intended to help the frail church leader boost his caloric intake and regain some strength after two stints in the hospital, and a tracheotomy to ease breathing difficulties. The Supreme Court makes it easier for workers over 40 to sue for age discrimination, saying employers can be held liable, even if they never intended to harm older workers, but the court's ruling sets a high bar for proving age discrimination, and allows employers to cite reasonable factors, such as cost cutting.

And in the Michael Jackson's case, today's witness list included a psychologist who says Jackson's accuser reported the alleged molestation during a therapy session. Also more testimony from a flight attendant who says she served Jackson wine disguised in a soda can on a flight that Jackson's accuser and his family were also on.

Turning to Rome now, and growing concerns over the health of John Paul II. The Vatican announced today the 84-year-old pontiff is receiving nutrition through a nasal-feeding tube. That's very different from the Terri Schiavo sort of tube, and that's an important distinction, but of course it does raise several questions about the pope's overall condition, and the subject of whether the pope, in fact, has a living will.

Joining me from Rome is our CNN Vatican analyst John Allen.

John, good to have you back with us.

JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Hi, Miles.

O'BRIEN: First of all, the pope does not have a living will, does he?

ALLEN: No, what Vatican officials have told us over the course of the last several months when this question is put to them, is John Paul has not left a specific set of directives for what would happen if he would enter a situation in which he was incapacitated and unable to make decisions for himself. By universe consensus, the belief here is that if were to come to that, decisions on the pope's behalf would be made by his very close aide and personal secretary, Archbishop Stanislav Jevus (ph).

O'BRIEN: All right, we do have a tendency at the Vatican to read tea leaves at times, and let's do a little tea leaf reading, because a year ago, almost precisely a year ago, the pope had some public statements about the issue of food and water in these situations. He said this: "The administration of water and food, even when provided by artificial means always represents a natural way" -- underscoring natural there -- "of preserving life, not a medical procedure."

in essence, is that the pope's living will right there?

ALLEN: Well, in any direct sense, no, because he was addressing a congress sponsored by the Vatican on patients in a persistent vegetative state, and he was speaking as a matter of general church teaching. But on the other hand, Miles, it's the closest thing we have to an indication of the pope's mind on the subject.

I certainly think doctors treating him, and I certainly think his own aide Archbishop Jevus would probably feel obligated to make decisions in accordance with the principles the pope outlined there, which would mean that they would want the pope to be maintained in life by the provision of food and water, should it come to that. Again, we need to stress we're not there yet.

O'BRIEN: Yes, and that's worth underscoring one more time for our viewers. This feeding tube we're talking about is entirely different type of situation. This is to augment his caloric intake, not in the case of Terri Schiavo to keep her alive, per se.

Now, what he said a year ago does fly in the face of a 25-year- old declaration which came from the Vatican, which is official Catholic law, if you will, and it said this, "One cannot impose on anyone the obligation to have recourse to a technique which is already in use, but which carries a risk or is burdensome. Such a refusal is not the equivalent of suicide. On the contrary, it should be considered as an acceptance of the human condition, or a wish to avoid the application of a medical procedure disproportionate to the results that can be expected, or a desire not to impose excessive expense on the family of the community."

So John Paul is on the record a year ago, in essence, contradicting the Vatican's 1980 declaration on euthanasia.

ALLEN: Yes. Well, of course, what Vatican officials will tell you is that that's not a contradiction, that's a specification. In other words, the distinction you're talking about, that was spelled out in that 1980 document, was between what's traditionally been called ordinary and extraordinary means, and essentially the church's position has always been that one is obligated to use ordinary means to preserve life. One is never obligated, although one can, use extraordinary means to do so.

What happened since 1980 is there's been a growing debate among Catholic moral theologians and experts on this question, as to whether or not artificial nutrition and hydration, such as what we see in the Schiavo case, qualifies as extraordinary means or not, and in essence what John Paul was saying at that message a year ago is that food and water is not an extraordinary means.

Now, we should also indicate that that was a message to a Congress. It does not rise to the level of being a papal and cyclical or an apostolic letter, and so it certainly is an authoritative voice, but it doesn't quite close the conversation. You'll certainly find a lots of Catholic ethicists who would take different positions.

I think the thing relevant to our conversation, Miles, is that it's the most recent and specific declaration from the pope himself we have in the question. And therefore, probably the thing that ultimately would guide decisions about the pope's own care.

O'BRIEN: John Allen is our Vatican analyst. Thanks you very much -- Carol.

CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Miles, a legal legend's unexpected passing. Straight ahead on LIVE FROM, colleagues and friends on the life and career of Johnnie Cochran.

And health fears on the field: a killer superbug being found in athletes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Playing contact sports carries risks. That much we know. Be it the possibility of breaking a bone or tearing a muscle. But there's an even greater threat lurking on the playing fields and in the locker rooms. CNN's Jason Carroll profiles two families and their very different battles with a silent killer.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Two young men went out to play football. And, just a few days later, both were fighting to stay alive.

KATHY YKEMA, MOTHER: It wasn't until he was on death's doorstop did we even realize how sick he was.

CARROLL: Matthew Ykema played football in a suburb of Houston. Ricky Lannetti played for Lycoming College in Pennsylvania.

THERESA LANNETTI, MOTHER: I just thought he caught something and was really sick and he was going to be OK.

CARROLL: Both young men had contracted what some doctors are calling a super bug, an aggressive bacterial infection called MRSA. It's a mutated strain of staphylococcus, resistant to most antibiotics.

K. YKEMA: I think it's a new silent killer. It just comes so fast and furious.

CARROLL: Doctors have seen it before, but usually in bedridden hospital patients with exposed wounds. Now they're seeing more cases among athletes playing contact sports. MRSA has hit professional football players, high school wrestlers and fencers, few cases as serious as Ricky's and Matthews'.

K. YKEMA: Here we had gone to the emergency room thinking, oh, he'll come home with a brace. And we just didn't understand that he was dying right before our eyes.

DR. SHELDON KAPLAN, TEXAS CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL: This is Matthew's case.

CARROLL: In Matthew's case, MRSA caused dozens of blood clots from his leg to his lungs.

KAPLAN: What is it about this organism that makes it so successful? We just don't know.

CARROLL: Ricky Lannetti's mother says emergency room doctors desperately worked on her son.

LANNETTI: They didn't know what was wrong with him. They had no idea. It was one organ after another just started shutting down on him. And it was that quick. By 7:36 that night, he died.

CARROLL: Doctors think an open sore may have been exposed to MRSA on the field or in a locker room.

LANNETTI: He only lived 21 years, but he had a great life. He was like everything to me. He was my best friend. He was my son.

CARROLL: Doctors still don't know how Matthew became infected.

MATTHEW YKEMA, STUDENT: It gave me a lot of time to think about how valuable life is and how much time you need to spend with family.

CARROLL: Matthew had to give up contact sports. A filter was implanted in his lungs to protect against clots.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're feeling pretty blessed.

K. YKEMA: Absolutely. Not a day goes by where we're not just tickled silly to know that Matthew is just a walking miracle.

CARROLL: Doctors watch him closely, as they continue to investigate the deadly bacteria that is still one step ahead of them.

Jason Carroll, CNN, Houston, Texas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: We've some got "News Across America" now. Controversy at a Salem, Oregon, high school. A photo project showing school alumni at work. It included the image of a U.S. marine holding a rifle. School officials, citing zero tolerance for weapons, won't allow the photo to be displayed. The marine's family is not happy. The school is standing firm.

They were caught on surveillance video but got away anyway. Two women at L.A.'s California Science Center made off with an exhibit over the weekend. A preserved 13-week-old human fetus. It was part of the traveling Body Worlds show. Police aren't sure why that piece was taken or what plans the thieves have for it.

And Joan Kennedy is in a Boston hospital today with a concussion and a broken shoulder. Now, not much is known about what happened to her, only that an anonymous passer-by found her lying in a street. Joan Kennedy is 68 years old, the former wife of Senator Edward Kennedy.

O'BRIEN: Professional colleagues and personal friends of Johnnie Cochran are remembering him as a skilled litigator and despite a high profile -- and champion of the common man, too. He had an inoperable brain tumor and he died yesterday at the age of 67. Here's CNN's Bill ....

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNNIE COCHRAN, ATTORNEY: If it doesn't fit, you must acquit.

BILL HEMMER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Johnnie Cochran may be best known for the O.J. Simpson case, the so-called trial of the century, but it could never define him. His legal career spanned four decades, a journey to justice, as he called it, that began as an L.A. prosecutor, telling Larry King back in 1999 why he loved being a lawyer.

COCHRAN: Because it gives you an opportunity to do interesting things, gives me an opportunity to, you know, represent people who are injured, gives me an opportunity to represent people who I believe are innocent, gives me an opportunity if I wanted to go into politics, or whatever. So for young kids out there, it's a great career.

HEMMER: Cochran was fond of saying an injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere, and those who knew him knew he meant every word. Sean "P. Diddy" Combs was one of his clients.

SEAN "P. DIDDY" COMBS: He fought for my innocence. He fought for my freedom. And this is the type of person he was. He stood for justice, integrity. He was such a man of grace, and he looked into my eyes. He heard my story. He saw I was innocent. And when he believed in you, he would go all the way for you.

HEMMER: Perhaps his proudest moment was getting Geronimo Pratt freed from prison in 1997. The former Black Panther served 27 years for a murder he did not commit.

To family, friends, and colleagues, Johnnie Cochran's legacy goes well beyond the law.

BEN BRAFMAN, CO-COUNSEL ON SEAN COMBS CASE: I think he'd like to be remembered as an honest man, as a kind, generous citizen. I don't think Johnnie would want to be remembered simply as a brilliant lawyer. I think he was much more than that, and I think that's what he would like to be remembered as, a wonderful human being. Bill Hemmer, CNN reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Cochran died late yesterday at his Los Angeles home. Funeral arrangements have not been announced.

Flags across the state of Alabama are flying at half-staff today in tribute to a small-town judge who made an indelible mark on the U.S. Senate. Three-term Democratic Senator Hal Heflin died yesterday in an Alabama hospital. He had had numerous heart ailments as well as diabetes. His position on the Senate judiciary committee made him a visible figure during the 1991 Clarence Thomas Supreme Court nomination. He left the Senate in '97. Howell Heflin was 83.

And no longer in critical condition -- doctors tending to the Reverend Jerry Falwell say the evangelist is breathing on his own, is alert and appears to be comfortable. Falwell spent a second night in a Virginia hospital suffering not from pneumonia as widely reported, rather congestive heart failure. Falwell is 71 and was hospitalized nearly two weeks in February.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Welcome back. We just got word that any moment now, we're going to hear from Terri Schiavo's father, Bob Schindler, out at the microphones outside the hospice in Pinellas Park, Florida. As soon as he steps out, we're going to bring you whatever it is that he has to say live.

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

LIN: All right. Thanks, Susan. Don't forget, Bob Schindler at the microphones outside the hospice in Pinellas Park at any moment. But, we also have the latest developments in the Schiavo case, as well, in case you're just catching up, in the second hour of LIVE FROM. And there is a new legal twist to tell you about.

Plus, a child support case unlike any other. A man ordered to pay for a daughter who didn't exist. A story of deception that will leave you amazed.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT: In a country where women didn't have a voice, Wangari Maathai spoke to the people. Born a farmer's daughter in Kenya in 1940, she traveled to America on a scholarship and became the first woman from Central or East Africa to earn a doctorate degree. But Maathai returned home, she found most of Kenya's forests had been destroyed.

WANGARI MAATHAI, NOBEL PRIZE WINNER: It is the women who are expected to produce food to feed the family, so it is the woman who feels it when the land can no longer produce.

CORRESPONDENT: Under her leadership, more than 30 million trees have been planted all over Kenya. Her movement has helped citizen foresters improve their quality of life. MAATHAI: We realize that people need to understand that some of the problems they have are of their own making and they can do something about those problems.

CORRESPONDENT: Her commitment to community and women made her the first African woman to win the Nobel Peace Prize in 2004. Maathai is now 64 years old and a member of the Kenyan parliament. Her political standing has taken her fight for the environment and democracy onto a larger landscape.

MAATHAI: Outside, you can make all the noise you want, but you cannot change laws. When I'm in parliament, I can make contributions to ensure that the future will be better.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: All right, let's go live right now to Pinellas Park, Florida. Bob Schindler, along with some of his supporters, standing there talking to reporters. Let's listen.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

BOB SCHINDLER, TERRI SCHIAVO'S FATHER: ... give you all somewhat of an update on her condition. Terri is still with us. She's -- under the circumstances, she looks darned good, surprisingly good. She is weak from the lack of food and hydration, but her skin tone is not breaking -- it's fine. Nothing is breaking down. We know that some of her organs are still functioning, so I think a doc can explain that better than I can, but I was pleasantly surprised with what I saw, OK? And encouraged.

So she's still fighting and we're still going to fight for her. We'll do whatever we can to save her and it's not too late. And these people -- I've been hearing some rumors that have been put out there, I'm sure you're going to hear other comments about her that are going to be very negative, but we were there, we saw her. And I say that she's weakening, but under the circumstances, she's a heck of a lot better than I expected.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's very much awake. She's trying to track people in the room.

SCHINDLER: This is Judy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Introduce her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm Judy Bader (ph), friend for a very long time. And Terri is very much awake. She's still trying to track people in the room with her eyes. She is still very much there. She hasn't gone anywhere. She's still fighting very hard to stay alive. We just have to help her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm Betty Hughes (ph). I'm Bob's cousin, Terri's cousin. Terri is very much with us. She was aware that we were there. Her skin tone and her skin is good. We're with her, she's with us.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm Sherry Payne. I was just in there to see Terri. Actually, I was amazed, too, because when I went over to her bed, she looked right up at me, like she did the other night, just like the other people that were with me. Her skin tone is wonderful. She is -- appears strong, but she is getting weaker. And if she just had a little water, I'm sure she would be fine.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm Kathy Lambert (ph). I'm a friend of Bobby's. I teach with him and I've been visiting Terri for six years now and I saw her after the feeding tube was removed last time and this time she is awake, alert, very weak. She is an amazingly strong woman, amazingly strong and we have great hope.

SCHINDLER: And once again, we'll have a doctor here to answer all of your questions that you may. Because, naturally, we're not equipped to do that. And I'm asking that nobody throw in the towel, as long she's fighting. Keep fighting with her, and particularly anyone that's up in Tallahassee that's considering any kind of legislature. She could still come out this thing, and they've got to help her. I plead that they help her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No questions. No questions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The doctor will be out in a few minutes.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: That was Bob Schindler, the father of Terri Schiavo, along with Sherry Payne, a friend, Betty Hughes, a cousin, Kathy Lambert, a cousin, and Jay Bader (ph), a friend of Terri Schiavo, having spent some time in her room today and relating to reporters their description of Terri's condition.

Let's turn it over now to CNN's Bob Franken, who has been in Pinellas Park for a good long time now.

Bob, the general mood there right now among the protesters and the family clearly seems downbeat today.

BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it is downbeat. I mean, whatever they just said, the truth is, is that time marches on. And time, everybody acknowledges, could soon run out on Terri Schiavo.

The reason to continue this, however, is that there are two institutions that possibly could reverse the fortunes at the last second. You have the Court of Appeals in Atlanta, which has agreed in a very unusual way to hear new arguments in favor of a plea to come out with an emergency order to reconnect the feeding tube. And you have Governor Bush in Tallahassee and the state legislators.

Governor Bush has probably finished his meeting now with the new ally of the Schindlers, Reverend Jesse Jackson. We're expecting to hear very soon his response to the repeated pleas to intercede, do something. Up until now, his posture has been, in the last week or so, he has run out of things he can do. But the family is saying that Terri Schiavo is still with us. Pleasantly surprised, said her father, not too late to reverse this -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: And on the state front, let's talk about that for just a moment. Because I think Jeb Bush was pretty clear that he was out of options. Are there really any options on that front?

FRANKEN: Well, the argument that the family is making here is that he needs to, in their eyes, show some courage and take on the courts. He is saying that that would be illegal, unconstitutional, not something that he would be able to do. They're saying, as one of their spokesman did last -- said last week, if there's a constitutional crisis, so be it.

As far as the legislators are concerned, there is an effort to get them to reconsider a bill that would change the regulations when it comes to expressing one's wishes in a situation like this. And that would be the hope, that it would cause Terri Schiavo's wishes, had they been presented in the court, to be ignored, and therefore keep the feeding tube in. The chances of that happening just from a logistical point of view, we're told, are almost nil.

O'BRIEN: Now, as to the 11th Circuit, the Federal Court of Appeals here in Atlanta, there is very little reason to believe, when you look at the history here, that they would have much of a sympathetic ear to the Schindlers' argument. And yet, they're saying, well, we'll listen, yet again. How do we read the tea leaves on that one?

FRANKEN: Well, I've noticed in the last few days courts doing something they don't usually do, judges acknowledging that there's a very huge personal matter here, that there's a strong emotional appeal, and they've been taking that into consideration, being very careful to put it in their opinions. So the possibility exists that these judges on the 11th Circuit have said, we want to make sure that nobody thinks that we were heartless as we look at the law.

O'BRIEN: So what you're saying is, they're responding to public pressure?

FRANKEN: Well, everybody says that judges don't do that, and everybody knows that they do.

O'BRIEN: OK. Bob Franken in Pinellas Park. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

The Schiavo matter continues to foster some unlikely alliances. Today, Jesse Jackson, as Bob just reported, huddled with -- in Tallahassee with Florida governor Jeb Bush. Both men on the side of restoring Schiavo's feeding tube by any legal means. Jackson says it's a moral issue, not politics.

You may remember yesterday Jackson visited Pinellas Park at the Schindlers' request, but was not allowed to see Terri Schiavo. He lobbied state senators by phone on behalf of a measure that would mandate food and water in the absence of a written request by the patient to the contrary. Jackson will be Judy Woodruff's guest today on INSIDE POLITICS, 3:30 p.m. Eastern, 12: 30 Pacific, right after LIVE FROM right here on CNN.

CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Miles alluded to the court case that is still pending. It is a long shot, at best, and possibly moot, even if it does succeed. But it's still the only hope for Terri Schiavo's parents and anyone else who hopes to prevent Schiavo from dying.

It is a filing with the same federal appeals court that's already ruled against Bob and Mary Schindler three times. And it comes 12 days after Schiavo's feeding tube was taken away in accordance with numerous state court rulings in Florida.

CNN's Rick Sanchez is outside the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals right here in Atlanta.

Rick, I know it's complicated, but I know you can make it simple. The bottom line of this filing, what changed here with this court? What is it that they're willing to do or not do?

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Very simple. What they're trying to do is get immediate relief. That's exactly the way it's described in the petition.

That means a stay. That means a TRO. That means a court essentially stepping in, Carol, and saying, you know what, this is a do or die situation, a woman's life hangs in the balance, we're going to have to extend this, give a little more time while we review this decision, even if we don't side with them, even if we rule against them. But in the meantime, let's give them a little more time and put the tube back in, the feeding tube back in.

That's essentially what they're trying to do in this case. And, you know, some of the dictum, some of the data, some of the information that they're basing this on is that, according to the attorney who's representing Bob and Mary Schindler, the district court in Tampa never looked at the entire case. They just gave it a cursory glance, so to speak, in layman's terms. They looked at the basic highlights of the case and they sent it on and ruled on it.

And what Bob and Mary Schindler's attorney wants this court, the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals that you see right behind me is to say, no, no, no, no. You've got to go back there, you've got to look at the entire case, and then you've got to rule on it.

And what they're further asking these guys to do is say, look, even if you don't agree with us, even if you don't think you're going to go that way, in the meantime, can you just give us a stay, can you give us a TRO, can you give us some time? Because we're not sure how long she's going to be alive, and that's why we need to you do that.

That's essentially what's going on -- Carol.

LIN: And Rick, just to be very clear, I mean, what the court has done has said -- and it was really kind of a technicality -- it said, all right, we will let you file the appeal, right? Technically, you can file the appeal...

SANCHEZ: Right.

LIN: ... even though a technical deadline has passed. But we haven't...

SANCHEZ: We're going to accept it.

LIN: Right, we're going to accept it, but we're not going to tell you if we're going to hold a hearing or when. And that really is the critical matter, which is why you're emphasizing whether the family gets a temporary restraining order.

SANCHEZ: Right. And you can read it right there when you read the petition. It's long and, you know, somewhat cumbersome and tough to read.

But when you get to the part where they say, and you know what we need? We need immediate relief because this come could possibly be dying -- by the way, one other thing we should add, the argument that's being presented -- because this is important, too -- the argument that's being presented by the attorneys for the Schindlers is that they have information that hasn't been considered by that Tampa court, and that is that someone who was working at the hospice -- here, I'll read it to you just specifically before I know -- I know we're getting a hard wrap here.

"The hospice worker testified that Michael Schiavo repeatedly told her that he and Terri never discussed what they would do in the event that she was severely incapacitated." So they want to bring this information into the case. And they say it was never considered there, and that's why they want to reopen it.

But right now it's all a matter of getting a stay, getting immediate relief, getting that TRO.

Carol, back to you.

LIN: All right. Still haven't heard from the court yet, specifically on that, but I know you're standing by out there. Thanks very much, Rick.

In the meantime, the latest federal court action adds a new twist, obviously, to the Schiavo case. So in just a few minutes, former U.S. attorney Kendall Coffey is going to join me on his take on the latest events and whether this latest legal strategy is likely to work. He's going to be with us in about 10 minutes -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: News "Across America" now.

A former top official of the Boy Scouts pleads guilty to a child porn charge. Douglas S. Smith accused of receiving explicit pictures over the Internet. The 61-year-old man used to run a task force on protecting youth from sexual abuse. He could get five to 20 years in prison without parole and a heavy fine.

A 16-year-old appears in federal court in connection with the school shootings in Minnesota. Local news reports say Louis Jourdain is charged with conspiracy to commit murder. Jeff Weise killed nine people before taking his own life in the March 21st shootings.

Those are hundreds of sharks that you are looking at right now. They swarmed off Deerfield Beach in south Florida. That's not a chamber of commerce picture, folks. Lifeguards kept people out of the water for part of yesterday at Deerfield and nearby Delray Beach. Both beaches were reopened this morning.

LIN: And a new turn in the pope's health. Vatican officials say he's now being fed through a nasal tube to boost his strength.

Earlier, the 84-year-old pontiff appeared at the window of his study and waved to thousands gathered in St. Peter's Square. Vatican officials say the feeding tube will help with his recovery, help him eat more than he may necessarily be able to do so right now.

So what exactly is a nasal feeding tube? And why now for the pope? Well, for answers, I spoke earlier to CNN senior medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SR. MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Basically, this is a tube that goes in from the nose directly into the stomach, contrasted to the Terri Schiavo tube, which goes directly into the stomach. This is considered a temporary tube.

It's a very thin sort of tube, very flexible. And actually, while the patient is awake -- there's no operation or any kind of surgery necessary here -- they just basically thread that down the nose through the back of the throat and directly into the stomach.

LIN: What does it tell you that the doctors made this decision that they wanted to use this nasal tube to feed him?

GUPTA: Yes, it's a good question. You know, he can swallow. And I think that's an important point.

You know, it's been some time since his operation. He's been able to sustain himself in terms of calories to some extent.

What it means is he's just not eating enough. Now, why is he not eating enough? Maybe his swallowing isn't perfect.

This happens to a lot of people who are older as well. They literally -- you know, they have food presented to them, but they're just not hungry. As he's trying to recover from this operation, he needs even more calories than normal to try and sustain himself.

The probable sequence of events here was that he was given cans of Ensure, some high-calorie shakes, things like that, to try and take as much as you can to sustain yourself. Just want able to do it, so they go ahead and put this little tube in.

LIN: So, in a prospective situation, it's not that he would necessarily be entering a critical phase of his recovery? I mean, how serious is the situation? Is he going to ultimately recover from this surgery?

GUPTA: I would say it's not serious right now. This is a procedure done every day, and a lot of people just need some additional calories to make themselves feel better. Once they feel better, they actually start to eat more. So it's sort of builds on itself.

On the other hand, it could lead to a situation where he just stops eating on his own and would need to actually have this thing converted from a nasal tube, actually, the tube that goes directly into the stomach, for more permanent feedings. No one's saying that's going to happen, but that does happen in certain situations as well.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: As you might recall, the pope underwent an emergency tracheotomy more than a month ago because he was having trouble breathing. And Vatican officials describe his recovery as slow but progressive.

O'BRIEN: It's yet another last-minute appeal for the parents of Terri Schiavo. Ahead, we'll talk with an attorney about this latest legal maneuver.

And first lady Laura Bush speaks out on the Schiavo case and living wills while on a trip to Afghanistan. What she had to say a little later on LIVE FROM.

And the world's favorite wizard. "Harry Potter" is set to break another record. We'll conjure that one up for you muggles ahead on LIVE FROM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(WEATHER REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Returning now to the Terri Schiavo case. There's another legal twist to tell you about.

Actually, let's start over here. How about this story? A 6.3 magnitude aftershock rattles Indonesia.

It was centered off northern Sumatra Island, the same island struck by Monday's killer earthquake. Indonesian officials now say as many as 1,000 died in that quake. Hugh Riminton looks at the overwhelming destruction.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) HUGH RIMINTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A smell familiar from December's tsunami, that of decomposing bodies, now hangs over (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Many roads are impassable, the only link to the airport is cut, and the death toll continues to rise.

In these few streets alone, the small Chinese community reports 300 people dead. After a few hurried prayers conducted under public gaze, the coffins are quickly sealed and trucked off for burial. In this group, a family of four.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Husband and wife and two children.

RIMINTON: Continual aftershocks cause an almost perpetual sway here, but people continue to search for survivors.

(on camera): This is what might be called the crazy, brave parts of the search and rescue operation. These are ordinary people without any training at all, and there's no help for that at the moment. They're desperately digging into the remnants of these buildings.

(voice-over): Elsewhere, the work is on saving the living. The local hospital's doctor was among those killed, the hospital itself damaged and overwhelmed by the number of patients. Aid workers seek frantically for chopper flights to get the wounded out.

Then in the early afternoon, a gift from above. Three massive Chinook helicopters of the Singapore Air Force arrived.

The first two choppers clear the immediate backlog of critical cases. But their small supply drop of water and food sparks a stampede. Control is lost. Within minutes, not a thing that can be carried remains. Amid the chaos below, the third Chinook flies off with potentially tragic consequences.

Just moments later, a group of villagers carries in a severely injured woman on a makeshift stretcher after an almost heroic trek. They nearly made it. But thanks to the looters, any hope she had of immediate medical rescue had just flown away.

Hugh Riminton, CNN, Nias, Indonesia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: We also have some other news from around the world right now, beginning with a pair of deadly car bombings. Iraqi police say a remote control device just missed a U.S. military convoy. It exploded outside an elementary school in Baghdad, killing a school guard. At least five other people were wounded.

And a car bomb blew up outside a government building in eastern Afghanistan. The blast rocked the city of Jalalabad. One suspected attacker was killed, and another was injured.

And first lady Laura Bush is on her way back from Afghanistan. In just a few hours, she visited with Afghan president Hamid Karzai and with Afghan teachers and U.S. troops. A former teacher herself, Mrs. Bush said the most critical tool for women is an education. And she also commented on the Terri Schiavo case.

We're going to talk about it in just a few minutes with former U.S. congressman Bob Barr.

All right. We've got much more coming up on that Terri Schiavo case. In fact, a new court case may be pending. I'm going to be interviewing U.S. -- former U.S. attorney Kendall Coffey on whether this is coming in time for Terri Schiavo.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: All right. Returning now to the Terri Schiavo case and another legal twist. A federal appeals court in Atlanta allows Schiavo's parents to file another emergency petition. So what is next?

Let's bring in former U.S. attorney Kendall Coffey.

Kendall, this is the very same court that just days ago turned down the parents' appeal. So what is different this time around?

KENDALL COFFEY, FMR. U.S. ATTORNEY: Well, it's obviously very tough, as we know. This is a re-hearing from the decision on Friday by three judges, this time the unanimous panel closing the doors to the parents of Terri Schiavo.

What the argument that's presented now centers on is, was the clear and convincing standard met with respect to the trial court judgment that Terri Schiavo did not wish to have hydration and nutrition continued in this kind of physical condition? So there's a little twist on the argument.

They're saying that this is a constitutional claim, not a relitigation of what happened in state court. And so while it's still a very, very tough argument, it is somewhat different than what they've argued before.

LIN: Well, not only that, but the parents say they now have a hospital witness to allege statements that Michael Schiavo made that he and his wife never actually discussed what they would do in a situation like this.

COFFEY: Right. And that's why they're highlighting the importance from their standpoint of the federal court's making their own independent review of the sufficiency of the evidence. And, according to the argument, unless a federal court honors that request for a new look at all the evidence, they would, one, be violating the recent congressional law that was passed, as we recall not so many days ago at all, and at the same time, if they don't undertake that independent review, in effect, de novo, they would be violating the constitutional rights of Terri Schiavo.

LIN: All right. A lot at stake, but it's been 14 hours since the court said, OK, you can go ahead and file. Why haven't we heard from the court given that Terri Schiavo is now entering day 13 without hydration or nutrition? COFFEY: Well, this was directed to the entire court. And as we know, 12 judges before weighed in on the first federal appeal that was brought by the parents of Terri Schiavo. So there are 12 judges who are dropping everything else, reading these U.S. Supreme Court decisions that are cited, looking at the Florida statute, and trying to decide, in effect, whether to reverse themselves.

Because, up until now, they have said no. And this is a very, very important, critical, obviously a life-and-death issue.

LIN: Right.

COFFEY: So they want to have at least some time before they make a final decision.

LIN: All right. Some time, but how much time? I mean...

COFFEY: We'll hear from them today or no later than this evening.

LIN: Really? And if -- and depending on what they say, would there then be -- would you expect that there might be a temporary restraining order and that feeding tube would be reinstated while they scheduled a full-blown hearing to hear alleged new evidence?

COFFEY: Well, according to what the courts federally have decided so far, the only issue is not whether there's an emergency, not whether it's the kind of situation that would normally justify an injunction, but whether the legal claims are strong enough to justify this extraordinary intervention. And if they decide that the legal claims under the U.S. Constitution, based on these U.S. Supreme Court cases, have some potential merit -- they don't have to be convinced of it, just some potential merit -- they would, in fact, have the power to issue an emergency injunction restoring hydration and nutrition.

It's still a very tough thing to ask for at this point. But obviously, there's still that possibility.

LIN: And you wonder, after 10 years of litigation, where this eyewitness was in all the years before. We'll see what happens. Thanks.

COFFEY: So many questions.

LIN: Yes, a lot of questions. Thanks very much, Kendall.

COFFEY: Thank you.

LIN: Kendall Coffey, former U.S. attorney -- Miles.

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired March 30, 2005 - 13:31   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Checking stories in the news, still awaiting a ruling from the 11th Circuit Court on whether it will rehear a claim brought by Terri Schiavo's parents. In the meantime, CNN has confirmed Florida Governor Jeb Bush met a short time ago with the Reverend Jesse Jackson, who has taken up the cause of Bob and Mary Schindler.
As the pope blessed visitors from his balcony this morning, the Vatican released a statement saying he is being fed through a nasal gastric tube. Officials say the feeding tube is intended to help the frail church leader boost his caloric intake and regain some strength after two stints in the hospital, and a tracheotomy to ease breathing difficulties. The Supreme Court makes it easier for workers over 40 to sue for age discrimination, saying employers can be held liable, even if they never intended to harm older workers, but the court's ruling sets a high bar for proving age discrimination, and allows employers to cite reasonable factors, such as cost cutting.

And in the Michael Jackson's case, today's witness list included a psychologist who says Jackson's accuser reported the alleged molestation during a therapy session. Also more testimony from a flight attendant who says she served Jackson wine disguised in a soda can on a flight that Jackson's accuser and his family were also on.

Turning to Rome now, and growing concerns over the health of John Paul II. The Vatican announced today the 84-year-old pontiff is receiving nutrition through a nasal-feeding tube. That's very different from the Terri Schiavo sort of tube, and that's an important distinction, but of course it does raise several questions about the pope's overall condition, and the subject of whether the pope, in fact, has a living will.

Joining me from Rome is our CNN Vatican analyst John Allen.

John, good to have you back with us.

JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Hi, Miles.

O'BRIEN: First of all, the pope does not have a living will, does he?

ALLEN: No, what Vatican officials have told us over the course of the last several months when this question is put to them, is John Paul has not left a specific set of directives for what would happen if he would enter a situation in which he was incapacitated and unable to make decisions for himself. By universe consensus, the belief here is that if were to come to that, decisions on the pope's behalf would be made by his very close aide and personal secretary, Archbishop Stanislav Jevus (ph).

O'BRIEN: All right, we do have a tendency at the Vatican to read tea leaves at times, and let's do a little tea leaf reading, because a year ago, almost precisely a year ago, the pope had some public statements about the issue of food and water in these situations. He said this: "The administration of water and food, even when provided by artificial means always represents a natural way" -- underscoring natural there -- "of preserving life, not a medical procedure."

in essence, is that the pope's living will right there?

ALLEN: Well, in any direct sense, no, because he was addressing a congress sponsored by the Vatican on patients in a persistent vegetative state, and he was speaking as a matter of general church teaching. But on the other hand, Miles, it's the closest thing we have to an indication of the pope's mind on the subject.

I certainly think doctors treating him, and I certainly think his own aide Archbishop Jevus would probably feel obligated to make decisions in accordance with the principles the pope outlined there, which would mean that they would want the pope to be maintained in life by the provision of food and water, should it come to that. Again, we need to stress we're not there yet.

O'BRIEN: Yes, and that's worth underscoring one more time for our viewers. This feeding tube we're talking about is entirely different type of situation. This is to augment his caloric intake, not in the case of Terri Schiavo to keep her alive, per se.

Now, what he said a year ago does fly in the face of a 25-year- old declaration which came from the Vatican, which is official Catholic law, if you will, and it said this, "One cannot impose on anyone the obligation to have recourse to a technique which is already in use, but which carries a risk or is burdensome. Such a refusal is not the equivalent of suicide. On the contrary, it should be considered as an acceptance of the human condition, or a wish to avoid the application of a medical procedure disproportionate to the results that can be expected, or a desire not to impose excessive expense on the family of the community."

So John Paul is on the record a year ago, in essence, contradicting the Vatican's 1980 declaration on euthanasia.

ALLEN: Yes. Well, of course, what Vatican officials will tell you is that that's not a contradiction, that's a specification. In other words, the distinction you're talking about, that was spelled out in that 1980 document, was between what's traditionally been called ordinary and extraordinary means, and essentially the church's position has always been that one is obligated to use ordinary means to preserve life. One is never obligated, although one can, use extraordinary means to do so.

What happened since 1980 is there's been a growing debate among Catholic moral theologians and experts on this question, as to whether or not artificial nutrition and hydration, such as what we see in the Schiavo case, qualifies as extraordinary means or not, and in essence what John Paul was saying at that message a year ago is that food and water is not an extraordinary means.

Now, we should also indicate that that was a message to a Congress. It does not rise to the level of being a papal and cyclical or an apostolic letter, and so it certainly is an authoritative voice, but it doesn't quite close the conversation. You'll certainly find a lots of Catholic ethicists who would take different positions.

I think the thing relevant to our conversation, Miles, is that it's the most recent and specific declaration from the pope himself we have in the question. And therefore, probably the thing that ultimately would guide decisions about the pope's own care.

O'BRIEN: John Allen is our Vatican analyst. Thanks you very much -- Carol.

CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Miles, a legal legend's unexpected passing. Straight ahead on LIVE FROM, colleagues and friends on the life and career of Johnnie Cochran.

And health fears on the field: a killer superbug being found in athletes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Playing contact sports carries risks. That much we know. Be it the possibility of breaking a bone or tearing a muscle. But there's an even greater threat lurking on the playing fields and in the locker rooms. CNN's Jason Carroll profiles two families and their very different battles with a silent killer.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Two young men went out to play football. And, just a few days later, both were fighting to stay alive.

KATHY YKEMA, MOTHER: It wasn't until he was on death's doorstop did we even realize how sick he was.

CARROLL: Matthew Ykema played football in a suburb of Houston. Ricky Lannetti played for Lycoming College in Pennsylvania.

THERESA LANNETTI, MOTHER: I just thought he caught something and was really sick and he was going to be OK.

CARROLL: Both young men had contracted what some doctors are calling a super bug, an aggressive bacterial infection called MRSA. It's a mutated strain of staphylococcus, resistant to most antibiotics.

K. YKEMA: I think it's a new silent killer. It just comes so fast and furious.

CARROLL: Doctors have seen it before, but usually in bedridden hospital patients with exposed wounds. Now they're seeing more cases among athletes playing contact sports. MRSA has hit professional football players, high school wrestlers and fencers, few cases as serious as Ricky's and Matthews'.

K. YKEMA: Here we had gone to the emergency room thinking, oh, he'll come home with a brace. And we just didn't understand that he was dying right before our eyes.

DR. SHELDON KAPLAN, TEXAS CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL: This is Matthew's case.

CARROLL: In Matthew's case, MRSA caused dozens of blood clots from his leg to his lungs.

KAPLAN: What is it about this organism that makes it so successful? We just don't know.

CARROLL: Ricky Lannetti's mother says emergency room doctors desperately worked on her son.

LANNETTI: They didn't know what was wrong with him. They had no idea. It was one organ after another just started shutting down on him. And it was that quick. By 7:36 that night, he died.

CARROLL: Doctors think an open sore may have been exposed to MRSA on the field or in a locker room.

LANNETTI: He only lived 21 years, but he had a great life. He was like everything to me. He was my best friend. He was my son.

CARROLL: Doctors still don't know how Matthew became infected.

MATTHEW YKEMA, STUDENT: It gave me a lot of time to think about how valuable life is and how much time you need to spend with family.

CARROLL: Matthew had to give up contact sports. A filter was implanted in his lungs to protect against clots.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're feeling pretty blessed.

K. YKEMA: Absolutely. Not a day goes by where we're not just tickled silly to know that Matthew is just a walking miracle.

CARROLL: Doctors watch him closely, as they continue to investigate the deadly bacteria that is still one step ahead of them.

Jason Carroll, CNN, Houston, Texas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: We've some got "News Across America" now. Controversy at a Salem, Oregon, high school. A photo project showing school alumni at work. It included the image of a U.S. marine holding a rifle. School officials, citing zero tolerance for weapons, won't allow the photo to be displayed. The marine's family is not happy. The school is standing firm.

They were caught on surveillance video but got away anyway. Two women at L.A.'s California Science Center made off with an exhibit over the weekend. A preserved 13-week-old human fetus. It was part of the traveling Body Worlds show. Police aren't sure why that piece was taken or what plans the thieves have for it.

And Joan Kennedy is in a Boston hospital today with a concussion and a broken shoulder. Now, not much is known about what happened to her, only that an anonymous passer-by found her lying in a street. Joan Kennedy is 68 years old, the former wife of Senator Edward Kennedy.

O'BRIEN: Professional colleagues and personal friends of Johnnie Cochran are remembering him as a skilled litigator and despite a high profile -- and champion of the common man, too. He had an inoperable brain tumor and he died yesterday at the age of 67. Here's CNN's Bill ....

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNNIE COCHRAN, ATTORNEY: If it doesn't fit, you must acquit.

BILL HEMMER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Johnnie Cochran may be best known for the O.J. Simpson case, the so-called trial of the century, but it could never define him. His legal career spanned four decades, a journey to justice, as he called it, that began as an L.A. prosecutor, telling Larry King back in 1999 why he loved being a lawyer.

COCHRAN: Because it gives you an opportunity to do interesting things, gives me an opportunity to, you know, represent people who are injured, gives me an opportunity to represent people who I believe are innocent, gives me an opportunity if I wanted to go into politics, or whatever. So for young kids out there, it's a great career.

HEMMER: Cochran was fond of saying an injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere, and those who knew him knew he meant every word. Sean "P. Diddy" Combs was one of his clients.

SEAN "P. DIDDY" COMBS: He fought for my innocence. He fought for my freedom. And this is the type of person he was. He stood for justice, integrity. He was such a man of grace, and he looked into my eyes. He heard my story. He saw I was innocent. And when he believed in you, he would go all the way for you.

HEMMER: Perhaps his proudest moment was getting Geronimo Pratt freed from prison in 1997. The former Black Panther served 27 years for a murder he did not commit.

To family, friends, and colleagues, Johnnie Cochran's legacy goes well beyond the law.

BEN BRAFMAN, CO-COUNSEL ON SEAN COMBS CASE: I think he'd like to be remembered as an honest man, as a kind, generous citizen. I don't think Johnnie would want to be remembered simply as a brilliant lawyer. I think he was much more than that, and I think that's what he would like to be remembered as, a wonderful human being. Bill Hemmer, CNN reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Cochran died late yesterday at his Los Angeles home. Funeral arrangements have not been announced.

Flags across the state of Alabama are flying at half-staff today in tribute to a small-town judge who made an indelible mark on the U.S. Senate. Three-term Democratic Senator Hal Heflin died yesterday in an Alabama hospital. He had had numerous heart ailments as well as diabetes. His position on the Senate judiciary committee made him a visible figure during the 1991 Clarence Thomas Supreme Court nomination. He left the Senate in '97. Howell Heflin was 83.

And no longer in critical condition -- doctors tending to the Reverend Jerry Falwell say the evangelist is breathing on his own, is alert and appears to be comfortable. Falwell spent a second night in a Virginia hospital suffering not from pneumonia as widely reported, rather congestive heart failure. Falwell is 71 and was hospitalized nearly two weeks in February.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Welcome back. We just got word that any moment now, we're going to hear from Terri Schiavo's father, Bob Schindler, out at the microphones outside the hospice in Pinellas Park, Florida. As soon as he steps out, we're going to bring you whatever it is that he has to say live.

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

LIN: All right. Thanks, Susan. Don't forget, Bob Schindler at the microphones outside the hospice in Pinellas Park at any moment. But, we also have the latest developments in the Schiavo case, as well, in case you're just catching up, in the second hour of LIVE FROM. And there is a new legal twist to tell you about.

Plus, a child support case unlike any other. A man ordered to pay for a daughter who didn't exist. A story of deception that will leave you amazed.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT: In a country where women didn't have a voice, Wangari Maathai spoke to the people. Born a farmer's daughter in Kenya in 1940, she traveled to America on a scholarship and became the first woman from Central or East Africa to earn a doctorate degree. But Maathai returned home, she found most of Kenya's forests had been destroyed.

WANGARI MAATHAI, NOBEL PRIZE WINNER: It is the women who are expected to produce food to feed the family, so it is the woman who feels it when the land can no longer produce.

CORRESPONDENT: Under her leadership, more than 30 million trees have been planted all over Kenya. Her movement has helped citizen foresters improve their quality of life. MAATHAI: We realize that people need to understand that some of the problems they have are of their own making and they can do something about those problems.

CORRESPONDENT: Her commitment to community and women made her the first African woman to win the Nobel Peace Prize in 2004. Maathai is now 64 years old and a member of the Kenyan parliament. Her political standing has taken her fight for the environment and democracy onto a larger landscape.

MAATHAI: Outside, you can make all the noise you want, but you cannot change laws. When I'm in parliament, I can make contributions to ensure that the future will be better.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: All right, let's go live right now to Pinellas Park, Florida. Bob Schindler, along with some of his supporters, standing there talking to reporters. Let's listen.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

BOB SCHINDLER, TERRI SCHIAVO'S FATHER: ... give you all somewhat of an update on her condition. Terri is still with us. She's -- under the circumstances, she looks darned good, surprisingly good. She is weak from the lack of food and hydration, but her skin tone is not breaking -- it's fine. Nothing is breaking down. We know that some of her organs are still functioning, so I think a doc can explain that better than I can, but I was pleasantly surprised with what I saw, OK? And encouraged.

So she's still fighting and we're still going to fight for her. We'll do whatever we can to save her and it's not too late. And these people -- I've been hearing some rumors that have been put out there, I'm sure you're going to hear other comments about her that are going to be very negative, but we were there, we saw her. And I say that she's weakening, but under the circumstances, she's a heck of a lot better than I expected.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's very much awake. She's trying to track people in the room.

SCHINDLER: This is Judy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Introduce her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm Judy Bader (ph), friend for a very long time. And Terri is very much awake. She's still trying to track people in the room with her eyes. She is still very much there. She hasn't gone anywhere. She's still fighting very hard to stay alive. We just have to help her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm Betty Hughes (ph). I'm Bob's cousin, Terri's cousin. Terri is very much with us. She was aware that we were there. Her skin tone and her skin is good. We're with her, she's with us.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm Sherry Payne. I was just in there to see Terri. Actually, I was amazed, too, because when I went over to her bed, she looked right up at me, like she did the other night, just like the other people that were with me. Her skin tone is wonderful. She is -- appears strong, but she is getting weaker. And if she just had a little water, I'm sure she would be fine.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm Kathy Lambert (ph). I'm a friend of Bobby's. I teach with him and I've been visiting Terri for six years now and I saw her after the feeding tube was removed last time and this time she is awake, alert, very weak. She is an amazingly strong woman, amazingly strong and we have great hope.

SCHINDLER: And once again, we'll have a doctor here to answer all of your questions that you may. Because, naturally, we're not equipped to do that. And I'm asking that nobody throw in the towel, as long she's fighting. Keep fighting with her, and particularly anyone that's up in Tallahassee that's considering any kind of legislature. She could still come out this thing, and they've got to help her. I plead that they help her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No questions. No questions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The doctor will be out in a few minutes.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: That was Bob Schindler, the father of Terri Schiavo, along with Sherry Payne, a friend, Betty Hughes, a cousin, Kathy Lambert, a cousin, and Jay Bader (ph), a friend of Terri Schiavo, having spent some time in her room today and relating to reporters their description of Terri's condition.

Let's turn it over now to CNN's Bob Franken, who has been in Pinellas Park for a good long time now.

Bob, the general mood there right now among the protesters and the family clearly seems downbeat today.

BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it is downbeat. I mean, whatever they just said, the truth is, is that time marches on. And time, everybody acknowledges, could soon run out on Terri Schiavo.

The reason to continue this, however, is that there are two institutions that possibly could reverse the fortunes at the last second. You have the Court of Appeals in Atlanta, which has agreed in a very unusual way to hear new arguments in favor of a plea to come out with an emergency order to reconnect the feeding tube. And you have Governor Bush in Tallahassee and the state legislators.

Governor Bush has probably finished his meeting now with the new ally of the Schindlers, Reverend Jesse Jackson. We're expecting to hear very soon his response to the repeated pleas to intercede, do something. Up until now, his posture has been, in the last week or so, he has run out of things he can do. But the family is saying that Terri Schiavo is still with us. Pleasantly surprised, said her father, not too late to reverse this -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: And on the state front, let's talk about that for just a moment. Because I think Jeb Bush was pretty clear that he was out of options. Are there really any options on that front?

FRANKEN: Well, the argument that the family is making here is that he needs to, in their eyes, show some courage and take on the courts. He is saying that that would be illegal, unconstitutional, not something that he would be able to do. They're saying, as one of their spokesman did last -- said last week, if there's a constitutional crisis, so be it.

As far as the legislators are concerned, there is an effort to get them to reconsider a bill that would change the regulations when it comes to expressing one's wishes in a situation like this. And that would be the hope, that it would cause Terri Schiavo's wishes, had they been presented in the court, to be ignored, and therefore keep the feeding tube in. The chances of that happening just from a logistical point of view, we're told, are almost nil.

O'BRIEN: Now, as to the 11th Circuit, the Federal Court of Appeals here in Atlanta, there is very little reason to believe, when you look at the history here, that they would have much of a sympathetic ear to the Schindlers' argument. And yet, they're saying, well, we'll listen, yet again. How do we read the tea leaves on that one?

FRANKEN: Well, I've noticed in the last few days courts doing something they don't usually do, judges acknowledging that there's a very huge personal matter here, that there's a strong emotional appeal, and they've been taking that into consideration, being very careful to put it in their opinions. So the possibility exists that these judges on the 11th Circuit have said, we want to make sure that nobody thinks that we were heartless as we look at the law.

O'BRIEN: So what you're saying is, they're responding to public pressure?

FRANKEN: Well, everybody says that judges don't do that, and everybody knows that they do.

O'BRIEN: OK. Bob Franken in Pinellas Park. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

The Schiavo matter continues to foster some unlikely alliances. Today, Jesse Jackson, as Bob just reported, huddled with -- in Tallahassee with Florida governor Jeb Bush. Both men on the side of restoring Schiavo's feeding tube by any legal means. Jackson says it's a moral issue, not politics.

You may remember yesterday Jackson visited Pinellas Park at the Schindlers' request, but was not allowed to see Terri Schiavo. He lobbied state senators by phone on behalf of a measure that would mandate food and water in the absence of a written request by the patient to the contrary. Jackson will be Judy Woodruff's guest today on INSIDE POLITICS, 3:30 p.m. Eastern, 12: 30 Pacific, right after LIVE FROM right here on CNN.

CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Miles alluded to the court case that is still pending. It is a long shot, at best, and possibly moot, even if it does succeed. But it's still the only hope for Terri Schiavo's parents and anyone else who hopes to prevent Schiavo from dying.

It is a filing with the same federal appeals court that's already ruled against Bob and Mary Schindler three times. And it comes 12 days after Schiavo's feeding tube was taken away in accordance with numerous state court rulings in Florida.

CNN's Rick Sanchez is outside the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals right here in Atlanta.

Rick, I know it's complicated, but I know you can make it simple. The bottom line of this filing, what changed here with this court? What is it that they're willing to do or not do?

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Very simple. What they're trying to do is get immediate relief. That's exactly the way it's described in the petition.

That means a stay. That means a TRO. That means a court essentially stepping in, Carol, and saying, you know what, this is a do or die situation, a woman's life hangs in the balance, we're going to have to extend this, give a little more time while we review this decision, even if we don't side with them, even if we rule against them. But in the meantime, let's give them a little more time and put the tube back in, the feeding tube back in.

That's essentially what they're trying to do in this case. And, you know, some of the dictum, some of the data, some of the information that they're basing this on is that, according to the attorney who's representing Bob and Mary Schindler, the district court in Tampa never looked at the entire case. They just gave it a cursory glance, so to speak, in layman's terms. They looked at the basic highlights of the case and they sent it on and ruled on it.

And what Bob and Mary Schindler's attorney wants this court, the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals that you see right behind me is to say, no, no, no, no. You've got to go back there, you've got to look at the entire case, and then you've got to rule on it.

And what they're further asking these guys to do is say, look, even if you don't agree with us, even if you don't think you're going to go that way, in the meantime, can you just give us a stay, can you give us a TRO, can you give us some time? Because we're not sure how long she's going to be alive, and that's why we need to you do that.

That's essentially what's going on -- Carol.

LIN: And Rick, just to be very clear, I mean, what the court has done has said -- and it was really kind of a technicality -- it said, all right, we will let you file the appeal, right? Technically, you can file the appeal...

SANCHEZ: Right.

LIN: ... even though a technical deadline has passed. But we haven't...

SANCHEZ: We're going to accept it.

LIN: Right, we're going to accept it, but we're not going to tell you if we're going to hold a hearing or when. And that really is the critical matter, which is why you're emphasizing whether the family gets a temporary restraining order.

SANCHEZ: Right. And you can read it right there when you read the petition. It's long and, you know, somewhat cumbersome and tough to read.

But when you get to the part where they say, and you know what we need? We need immediate relief because this come could possibly be dying -- by the way, one other thing we should add, the argument that's being presented -- because this is important, too -- the argument that's being presented by the attorneys for the Schindlers is that they have information that hasn't been considered by that Tampa court, and that is that someone who was working at the hospice -- here, I'll read it to you just specifically before I know -- I know we're getting a hard wrap here.

"The hospice worker testified that Michael Schiavo repeatedly told her that he and Terri never discussed what they would do in the event that she was severely incapacitated." So they want to bring this information into the case. And they say it was never considered there, and that's why they want to reopen it.

But right now it's all a matter of getting a stay, getting immediate relief, getting that TRO.

Carol, back to you.

LIN: All right. Still haven't heard from the court yet, specifically on that, but I know you're standing by out there. Thanks very much, Rick.

In the meantime, the latest federal court action adds a new twist, obviously, to the Schiavo case. So in just a few minutes, former U.S. attorney Kendall Coffey is going to join me on his take on the latest events and whether this latest legal strategy is likely to work. He's going to be with us in about 10 minutes -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: News "Across America" now.

A former top official of the Boy Scouts pleads guilty to a child porn charge. Douglas S. Smith accused of receiving explicit pictures over the Internet. The 61-year-old man used to run a task force on protecting youth from sexual abuse. He could get five to 20 years in prison without parole and a heavy fine.

A 16-year-old appears in federal court in connection with the school shootings in Minnesota. Local news reports say Louis Jourdain is charged with conspiracy to commit murder. Jeff Weise killed nine people before taking his own life in the March 21st shootings.

Those are hundreds of sharks that you are looking at right now. They swarmed off Deerfield Beach in south Florida. That's not a chamber of commerce picture, folks. Lifeguards kept people out of the water for part of yesterday at Deerfield and nearby Delray Beach. Both beaches were reopened this morning.

LIN: And a new turn in the pope's health. Vatican officials say he's now being fed through a nasal tube to boost his strength.

Earlier, the 84-year-old pontiff appeared at the window of his study and waved to thousands gathered in St. Peter's Square. Vatican officials say the feeding tube will help with his recovery, help him eat more than he may necessarily be able to do so right now.

So what exactly is a nasal feeding tube? And why now for the pope? Well, for answers, I spoke earlier to CNN senior medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SR. MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Basically, this is a tube that goes in from the nose directly into the stomach, contrasted to the Terri Schiavo tube, which goes directly into the stomach. This is considered a temporary tube.

It's a very thin sort of tube, very flexible. And actually, while the patient is awake -- there's no operation or any kind of surgery necessary here -- they just basically thread that down the nose through the back of the throat and directly into the stomach.

LIN: What does it tell you that the doctors made this decision that they wanted to use this nasal tube to feed him?

GUPTA: Yes, it's a good question. You know, he can swallow. And I think that's an important point.

You know, it's been some time since his operation. He's been able to sustain himself in terms of calories to some extent.

What it means is he's just not eating enough. Now, why is he not eating enough? Maybe his swallowing isn't perfect.

This happens to a lot of people who are older as well. They literally -- you know, they have food presented to them, but they're just not hungry. As he's trying to recover from this operation, he needs even more calories than normal to try and sustain himself.

The probable sequence of events here was that he was given cans of Ensure, some high-calorie shakes, things like that, to try and take as much as you can to sustain yourself. Just want able to do it, so they go ahead and put this little tube in.

LIN: So, in a prospective situation, it's not that he would necessarily be entering a critical phase of his recovery? I mean, how serious is the situation? Is he going to ultimately recover from this surgery?

GUPTA: I would say it's not serious right now. This is a procedure done every day, and a lot of people just need some additional calories to make themselves feel better. Once they feel better, they actually start to eat more. So it's sort of builds on itself.

On the other hand, it could lead to a situation where he just stops eating on his own and would need to actually have this thing converted from a nasal tube, actually, the tube that goes directly into the stomach, for more permanent feedings. No one's saying that's going to happen, but that does happen in certain situations as well.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: As you might recall, the pope underwent an emergency tracheotomy more than a month ago because he was having trouble breathing. And Vatican officials describe his recovery as slow but progressive.

O'BRIEN: It's yet another last-minute appeal for the parents of Terri Schiavo. Ahead, we'll talk with an attorney about this latest legal maneuver.

And first lady Laura Bush speaks out on the Schiavo case and living wills while on a trip to Afghanistan. What she had to say a little later on LIVE FROM.

And the world's favorite wizard. "Harry Potter" is set to break another record. We'll conjure that one up for you muggles ahead on LIVE FROM.

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O'BRIEN: Returning now to the Terri Schiavo case. There's another legal twist to tell you about.

Actually, let's start over here. How about this story? A 6.3 magnitude aftershock rattles Indonesia.

It was centered off northern Sumatra Island, the same island struck by Monday's killer earthquake. Indonesian officials now say as many as 1,000 died in that quake. Hugh Riminton looks at the overwhelming destruction.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) HUGH RIMINTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A smell familiar from December's tsunami, that of decomposing bodies, now hangs over (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Many roads are impassable, the only link to the airport is cut, and the death toll continues to rise.

In these few streets alone, the small Chinese community reports 300 people dead. After a few hurried prayers conducted under public gaze, the coffins are quickly sealed and trucked off for burial. In this group, a family of four.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Husband and wife and two children.

RIMINTON: Continual aftershocks cause an almost perpetual sway here, but people continue to search for survivors.

(on camera): This is what might be called the crazy, brave parts of the search and rescue operation. These are ordinary people without any training at all, and there's no help for that at the moment. They're desperately digging into the remnants of these buildings.

(voice-over): Elsewhere, the work is on saving the living. The local hospital's doctor was among those killed, the hospital itself damaged and overwhelmed by the number of patients. Aid workers seek frantically for chopper flights to get the wounded out.

Then in the early afternoon, a gift from above. Three massive Chinook helicopters of the Singapore Air Force arrived.

The first two choppers clear the immediate backlog of critical cases. But their small supply drop of water and food sparks a stampede. Control is lost. Within minutes, not a thing that can be carried remains. Amid the chaos below, the third Chinook flies off with potentially tragic consequences.

Just moments later, a group of villagers carries in a severely injured woman on a makeshift stretcher after an almost heroic trek. They nearly made it. But thanks to the looters, any hope she had of immediate medical rescue had just flown away.

Hugh Riminton, CNN, Nias, Indonesia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: We also have some other news from around the world right now, beginning with a pair of deadly car bombings. Iraqi police say a remote control device just missed a U.S. military convoy. It exploded outside an elementary school in Baghdad, killing a school guard. At least five other people were wounded.

And a car bomb blew up outside a government building in eastern Afghanistan. The blast rocked the city of Jalalabad. One suspected attacker was killed, and another was injured.

And first lady Laura Bush is on her way back from Afghanistan. In just a few hours, she visited with Afghan president Hamid Karzai and with Afghan teachers and U.S. troops. A former teacher herself, Mrs. Bush said the most critical tool for women is an education. And she also commented on the Terri Schiavo case.

We're going to talk about it in just a few minutes with former U.S. congressman Bob Barr.

All right. We've got much more coming up on that Terri Schiavo case. In fact, a new court case may be pending. I'm going to be interviewing U.S. -- former U.S. attorney Kendall Coffey on whether this is coming in time for Terri Schiavo.

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LIN: All right. Returning now to the Terri Schiavo case and another legal twist. A federal appeals court in Atlanta allows Schiavo's parents to file another emergency petition. So what is next?

Let's bring in former U.S. attorney Kendall Coffey.

Kendall, this is the very same court that just days ago turned down the parents' appeal. So what is different this time around?

KENDALL COFFEY, FMR. U.S. ATTORNEY: Well, it's obviously very tough, as we know. This is a re-hearing from the decision on Friday by three judges, this time the unanimous panel closing the doors to the parents of Terri Schiavo.

What the argument that's presented now centers on is, was the clear and convincing standard met with respect to the trial court judgment that Terri Schiavo did not wish to have hydration and nutrition continued in this kind of physical condition? So there's a little twist on the argument.

They're saying that this is a constitutional claim, not a relitigation of what happened in state court. And so while it's still a very, very tough argument, it is somewhat different than what they've argued before.

LIN: Well, not only that, but the parents say they now have a hospital witness to allege statements that Michael Schiavo made that he and his wife never actually discussed what they would do in a situation like this.

COFFEY: Right. And that's why they're highlighting the importance from their standpoint of the federal court's making their own independent review of the sufficiency of the evidence. And, according to the argument, unless a federal court honors that request for a new look at all the evidence, they would, one, be violating the recent congressional law that was passed, as we recall not so many days ago at all, and at the same time, if they don't undertake that independent review, in effect, de novo, they would be violating the constitutional rights of Terri Schiavo.

LIN: All right. A lot at stake, but it's been 14 hours since the court said, OK, you can go ahead and file. Why haven't we heard from the court given that Terri Schiavo is now entering day 13 without hydration or nutrition? COFFEY: Well, this was directed to the entire court. And as we know, 12 judges before weighed in on the first federal appeal that was brought by the parents of Terri Schiavo. So there are 12 judges who are dropping everything else, reading these U.S. Supreme Court decisions that are cited, looking at the Florida statute, and trying to decide, in effect, whether to reverse themselves.

Because, up until now, they have said no. And this is a very, very important, critical, obviously a life-and-death issue.

LIN: Right.

COFFEY: So they want to have at least some time before they make a final decision.

LIN: All right. Some time, but how much time? I mean...

COFFEY: We'll hear from them today or no later than this evening.

LIN: Really? And if -- and depending on what they say, would there then be -- would you expect that there might be a temporary restraining order and that feeding tube would be reinstated while they scheduled a full-blown hearing to hear alleged new evidence?

COFFEY: Well, according to what the courts federally have decided so far, the only issue is not whether there's an emergency, not whether it's the kind of situation that would normally justify an injunction, but whether the legal claims are strong enough to justify this extraordinary intervention. And if they decide that the legal claims under the U.S. Constitution, based on these U.S. Supreme Court cases, have some potential merit -- they don't have to be convinced of it, just some potential merit -- they would, in fact, have the power to issue an emergency injunction restoring hydration and nutrition.

It's still a very tough thing to ask for at this point. But obviously, there's still that possibility.

LIN: And you wonder, after 10 years of litigation, where this eyewitness was in all the years before. We'll see what happens. Thanks.

COFFEY: So many questions.

LIN: Yes, a lot of questions. Thanks very much, Kendall.

COFFEY: Thank you.

LIN: Kendall Coffey, former U.S. attorney -- Miles.

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