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Pope John Paul II Moved to Basilica for Public Viewing

Aired April 04, 2005 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Live pictures now from the Vatican, where as many as two million people are expected to pay their last respects to Pope John Paul II. The doors are open, and we're live from the Vatican.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: As you can see, people paying respects to a beloved leader. We will look at some of the tradition behind today's rites and what you can expect in the coming days as the world says goodbye to this pope and the cardinals elect a new one.

From the CNN Center here in Atlanta, I'm Betty Nguyen, in for Miles O'Brien.

PHILLIPS: And I'm Kyra Phillips. This hour of CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.

We're covering all angles of the story as we continue to look at live pictures from Vatican right now inside St. Peter's Basilica. We have Bill Hemmer in Vatican City, Aaron Brown, Jim Bittermann, John Allen, our analyst from the Vatican.

And we're told that the pope had left no written orders for his funeral or burial. So the princes of the Church -- that is, the cardinals -- opted for tradition, including burial here in St. Peter's Basilica. While we wait to find out more as thousands of people come through, let's go to Aaron Brown live in Rome.

Aaron, is it unusual that there were no written orders?

AARON BROWN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, the truth is, I don't know. That's why in truth we have John Allen. So when we get to John, ask him. I just don't know the answer to that.

What I do know is that the College of Cardinals, or those who have assembled here -- not all have assembled yet -- have laid out the schedule for the next few days, and we know how that will play out. The Canon Law, Catholic law, requires that he funeral be held between the fourth and the sixth day, and they took that to the end of that period, the sixth day, Friday, 10:00 local time, 4:00 back on the East Coast of the United States.

So the maximum number of people who wished to share the moment that you're now able to see, this brief moment that an individual gets where they walk -- after a very long wait -- walk through, walk by, pass by the body of Pope John Paul, an intensely personal moment, we would think. In many respects an intensely private moment. It's one of those moments that as a reporter, I think we should watch a lot and say a little. Their faces say as much as any words that any of the rest of us can come up with.

But this will go on until Friday, Friday morning, and then the Church will hold its highest funeral for Pope John Paul. And the world will assemble, either literally here in Rome, or because of the reach of television around the globe it will be a funeral for a pontiff seen by more people than have ever watched such an event, and probably will be seen by more people who have ever seen any event in the history of the planet.

PHILLIPS: Aaron, you asked, and we will deliver. Stay with us.

We want to bring in John Allen now, our Vatican analyst.

And John, the question to you, we were told that the pope left no written orders for his funeral or his burial. Is that unusual?

JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Short answer is no. The truth is that of the 263 popes in the history of the Catholic Church, roughly half are buried in the grotto beneath St. Peter's Basilica. That's the traditional thing.

A pope would leave instructions only if he wished to depart from that custom. And so it's not terribly surprising that John Paul, like so many of the previous popes of the Catholic Church, decided to end up where, after all, the Catholic Church believes the bones, the remains of St. Peter himself are located, in that magnificent basilica of St. Peter's.

The bones of St. Peter are believed to have been preserved in what was an ancient Pagan burial site directly underneath the main altar of St. Peter's Basilica. And so all of those successors of St. Peter have joined the founder of the line, so to speak, in going to -- in going to their final resting place on that spot.

PHILLIPS: So two questions about that final resting place. We've heard a number of different possibilities, and also the possibility that Pope John Paul may rest there on the floor of the basilica so more people can come and visit and pay their respects. I mean, this is just probably a small example of the millions more that will want to come and visit John throughout the years.

Is it possible that they would break tradition and put Pope John Paul II's remains in a different part of the Church? Or the basilica?

ALLEN: Well, you know, anything is possible. And it pays not to be too dogmatic about these things.

But the custom is that popes are brought up and their remains displayed on the main level of the basilica only after they've been beatified or canonized. It's worth noting, for example, that this is actually not -- well, the last time that a pope laid instate inside the basilica was not 1978 when John Paul I did so, but actually a couple of years ago when -- some three years ago now when John XXIII was beatified.

His remains were brought up and laid in state, so to speak. That is, they were accessible to the public for a couple of days before they were then placed on one of the altars in the basilica. So it's not impossible, but it would be a break from custom.

PHILLIPS: Interesting, John. You talk about beatification, canonization. Is it too early to talk about sainthood in Pope John Paul II?

ALLEN: Well, I don't think it's too early because people are talking about it. I mean, particularly in Krakow, Poland, tonight, I think, you know, the buzz on the street -- and certainly not just there -- would be that, you know, if ever there was a case of somebody who is sort of -- the argument for whom sainthood seemed fairly clear -- perhaps the only recent analogy would be Mother Teresa. I think everyone agreed when Mother Teresa died that she was a living saint.

Similarly, I think there's something approaching a universal consensus, at least in the Catholic Church, that probably this man who we're laying to rest today probably also qualifies. But having said that, the Catholic Church has a relatively exacting process for this sort of thing.

There is a mandatory five-year waiting period before a case can be opened. There's a long process of collecting testimony and so forth. It has to be done on the local level in Krakow, which would then come to Rome.

All of that would have to be done to establish what's known as his heroic virtue. That is, that he lived a saintly life. Then the process of trying to identify and authenticate a miracle would begin before he could be formally beatified.

So there is a long road ahead. But I think many Catholics tonight would be saying, at the end of that process, to them the conclusion seems fairly clear.

PHILLIPS: John, one more quick question for you. You mentioned Krakow, Poland. You know, there's been talk that the Poles in the pope's homeland want to bring his heart back to Poland and have it rest where many Polish saints and royalty have been buried. Do we know if that has been confirmed and if that's even a possibility?

ALLEN: No, I certainly don't know if it's been confirmed. But I can say that it is a possibility.

Actually, for many centuries it was the custom that the pope's organs, especially the heart, would be removed from the body and then placed on display in a church here in Rome, St. Vincent and Anastasius, which is down by the Trevi Fountain.

So there certainly is precedent for it. Whether it's going to happen in this case, unfortunately I just can't say.

PHILLIPS: Our John Allen, Vatican analyst, reporting, along with our Aaron Brown. Also, Jim Bittermann and Bill Hemmer.

NGUYEN: As we watch people pile inside St. Peter's Basilica to pay their final respects to Pope John Paul II, we want to go outside now to CNN's Bill Hemmer, who is among the masses, people, millions of them standing in line waiting to get inside where that live picture you see right there to get up close and personal with the pope for one last time.

Bill, talk to us about what it's like to be in there. Because as we're watching these pictures, people are filing by quite quickly. And I'm a little surprised at that, especially after so many have come from so far to spend just a few moments with the pope.

BILL HEMMER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I tell you, Betty, that line is going to have to move fast in order to get as many people through as they expect here at the Vatican. We're told that the front of the line you have about 7,000 people right now, and now the Vatican press office is telling us there are another 70,000 already in line just outside of St. Peter's Square.

That's where I am, by the way. And I'm right near the front of the line, in fact. So you're about to hear from some people who are actually quite lucky.

The doors opened a bit early. They opened up about 25 minutes ago, which is about an hour and 15 minutes earlier than what we had heard from the Vatican a bit earlier.

Ben (ph), come on over here.

And we'll -- again, as I mentioned, Betty, this is the front of the line.

Laura (ph), you can come in here, too. You're usually my translator here.

Now, the greater majority of the people in line here are from Italy. And so with the help of some translation we're going to try and find out from them what is so special about this evening tonight.

I guess this gentleman can go first.

Laura (ph), ask him what this pope meant to him as an Italian and also as a man.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPEAKING ITALIAN).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Everything. Everything.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He got the pope on his heart.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Everything, the good things that he had done when he was alive and all the messages that he sent to the people, men in the world, men who changed the world.

He was the father of every man, of every human being. He was considered the people's father.

HEMMER: We're going to move down the line a little bit here and talk to some people down here.

Good evening to you. Italiano?

Ask them, if you could, Laura (ph), please, what their feelings are tonight knowing that the line is now moving? Which gives them a little bit of hope that they may see them sooner rather than later.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPEAKING ITALIAN)?

They are -- they are very like -- you know, they're almost in tears now that they know they're getting in. So they're almost in tears. They can't barely talk.

They're very holding (ph) in, because they know that in a few moments the will -- like they will see him for the last time. So they're very emotional about that.

HEMMER: And where does she come from? What city?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPEAKING ITALIAN)?

Rome.

HEMMER: You're in Rome. Thank you very much.

This line goes for a long time, Betty. And this is what we understand is only the beginning of what will be a four-and-a-half day vigil of people from all over the world.

And we've seen them already tonight from India, from Ireland, from New York City. We saw a whole group of nuns from the Congo who are also waiting in line. It will get chilly in the evening hours here. It's a bit past 8:00 at night, but everyone we have spoken to so far will tell us that they will not give up until they get a chance for final respects for Pope John Paul II -- Betty.

NGUYEN: And Bill, you actually got a chance to pay your final respects to the pope. Take us to that moment when you viewed the pope's body. What was that like for you?

HEMMER: I will tell you this, the Vatican is one of the most stunning places in the world from a physical standpoint. They took some of the greatest architects of the Renaissance Age and the greatest artists in the history of this planet and they were commissioned by the popes at that time to paint some of the most beautiful pieces of art in the world.

And inside the Apostolic Palace, just outside where the pope's body was lying earlier today for that private viewing, the frescos painted by people like Raphael line the ceilings and they line the walls. And the floors are made of marble, and the doors are made of the most innate -- ornate, rather, carved wood that you will ever come across in your life. And as you go down this hallway -- it was very crowded, by the way, for a private viewing. I was quite surprised by how many people were there. But as you get closer and closer, you can hear the rosary being chanted by the -- by the Italian nuns and the priests who had gathered there. There were priests kneeling by the side of Pope John Paul II.

And then when you finally get up to see him, you can see this man tilted on a bed with his body facing forward, forward to the people who have come to pay their final respects right near his feet. He had a rosary in his hand. There was a candle burning to the right, there was a large crucifix set off to the left-hand side.

And there he lie earlier today just like he has for the past two days for that private viewing, and will now for four-and-a-half more days in St. Peter's Basilica behind me. The viewing is now under way, and now we'll all watch this stream of people from all over the world come to say a prayer or have a final thought and a private thought among themselves for the next four-and-a-half days -- Betty.

NGUYEN: And participate in a moment that they will always remember. Bill Hemmer in St. Peter's Square. Thank you.

British mourners are showing their affection and admiration for the pope. Many packed London's West Minister Cathedral today for a special memorial service.

Britain's Prince Charles cut short his Swiss skiing holiday to attend that. So did his fiancee, Camilla Parker Bowles.

British Prime Minister Tony Blair is also among the senior dignitaries paying their respects.

The archbishop of Westminster praised the pope as a great leader, a great Christian and a great man.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARDINAL CORMAC MURPHY-O'CONNOR, ARCHBISHOP OF WESTMINSTER: Indeed, the response of so many millions of all faiths and none of different races and ages to the passing of the Polish pope has been simply overwhelming. It has left me deeply moved at times and full of gratitude. I leave for Rome tonight uplifted by this response, for if one man's dying can evoke such an outpouring of love and gratitude, then it is true we are all in god's hands.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NGUYEN: The pope's death is affecting the marriage plans of Prince Charles and Camilla Parker Bowles. That ceremony will now be delayed until Saturday to allow the prince to attend the pope's funeral on Friday.

Tony Blair and the archbishop of Canterbury also plan to attend. The postponement means the archbishop will be able to bless the royal union after the civil ceremony. Blair is expected to attend that blessing service as well.

PHILLIPS: Pope John Paul II logged more travels than any of his predecessors, and there was a method to the miles. Just ahead, we're going to talk about the pope's missions to third world countries and their impact on the future of the Church. And I'll be joined by Archbishop Wilton Gregory to talk about how this pope reached out to African-American Catholics just after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: You're looking at a live picture inside St. Peter's Basilica, where many have come to see the pope as he lie in state there, pay their final respects. They have waited in line for hours for this special moment with the pope, this one last moment with the pope.

Thousands have come. In fact, millions. Some two million people are expected to pay their last respect to Pope John Paul II as he lie in state. His funeral, of course, will be held on Friday.

PHILLIPS: Well, Pope John Paul II set a tone of peace, reconciliation and social justice for a Roman Catholic Church reaching out more and more to diverse racial and ethnic groups. Archbishop Wilton Gregory remembers that well. He was introduced last year as the new leader of the Roman Catholics here in Atlanta. He joins us live to talk about his personal time with Pope John Paul II and his plans to carry on a tremendous spiritual legacy here in Georgia.

Pleasure to have you with us.

ARCHBISHOP WILTON GREGORY, ARCHDIOCESE OF ATLANTA: Thank you very much, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: You brought in some wonderful pictures of you and Pope John Paul II. Tell me about your time with him and the conversations and how it moved you.

GREGORY: Every time I had the great honor to be with the holy father it was always a deeply moving and a spiritual encounter. He was a man of extraordinary interests, always wanted to know about what was going on in the Church in the United States, and deeply engaged with the bishops that he spoke to.

And he made you feel comfortable. It was not at all difficult to speak to him.

PHILLIPS: What was this I heard about he said to you something about becoming the president of the United States?

GREGORY: Well, obviously during the last three years I served as president of the Conference of U.S. Bishops. And he knew that, and he knew that many of the occasions that we were together were because of my office as president of the conference.

And on one occasion when I walked into the room, he looked up at me. And with that smile on his face, he said, "Ah, Bishop Gregory, the president of the United States," and then he chuckled. But he was -- he was an extraordinarily warm, loving human being.

PHILLIPS: And he had a sense of humor.

GREGORY: Oh, a very fine sense of humor. Very fine sense of humor.

PHILLIPS: But never any jokes?

GREGORY: Well, never that he himself told, but he always loved a good humorous story.

PHILLIPS: Really?

GREGORY: Oh, sure. He would chuckle and laugh. And he was very human.

PHILLIPS: Well, I want to talk to you about that human side a little bit more. And talk about reaching out to African-Americans.

And I've read a lot about what he has done just on the -- with civil rights and human rights. And in 1987, when he was in New Orleans, and he was talking to black Catholic leaders, he said, "The Church needs you, and you need the Church."

Was he progressive in that manner with regard to diversifying the Church, especially among leaders?

GREGORY: Oh, clearly. He meant by that statement that there was -- there were gifts that African-Americans have to offer to the Church, and there's a gift that the Church has to offer to African- Americans.

It's a bi-directional relationship. And both the Catholic Church in the United States is changed, is influenced is -- is seasoned by the gifts of African-Americans. And we African-Americans have been changed by our contact with the Catholic Church.

There's a tremendous heritage of Catholicism among African- Americans that has taken place through the Catholic schools. I myself am a product of the Catholic schools, and Catholic today because of the encounter that my family had with the Catholic educational system.

So we have been shaped. And hopefully, we are shaping the Church by our heritage. And we've received a great deal from the generosity and the love of Catholics in the United States.

PHILLIPS: Talking about culture and heritage, I remember when he visited the House of Slaves, and he talked about the sin of racism.

GREGORY: Yes.

PHILLIPS: And he had said, "Racism is a sin that constitutes a serious offense against god."

Where do you think his sensitivity -- do you think it was living in an occupied country that created maybe more of a sensitivity to abolish racism?

GREGORY: Pope John Paul II had one of the most sophisticated and theologically-grounded understandings of the dignity of the human person that I think we've witnessed in the recent past. He never varied from his strong belief that the human person is a reflection of the image of god and that we enjoy profound dignity because god has fashioned us after himself.

And therefore, any system that compromises or belittles the human person is an offense against god: slavery, economic oppression, actions against innocent human life. You know, it all fit for the holy father. He didn't compartmentalize his social teaching, but he saw it as a systemic response to god's goodness in creating the human person.

PHILLIPS: I have to ask you a final question. Could we see a black pope? Could we see a Hispanic pope?

GREGORY: Certainly that is a possibility. The College of Cardinals that are gathered now, it seems to me the first questions they have to ask themselves -- and I know they're asking them -- what does the Church need? What are the qualities, the gifts, the strengths necessary in the next pontiff to address the needs that the Church faces and the challenges that we face? Then, who possesses those?

And I think it's in that order that they will go about their task. And whoever possesses those from whatever background, race, culture they come, the College of Cardinals will put their faith in that individual.

PHILLIPS: Bishop Wilton Gregory, welcome to Atlanta. I hope you will come back.

I know you've been very progressive with reform, especially during the sex abuse crisis. I know you even said spiritually it's dropped you to your knees. And you've been very active in making changes in the Church. I hope you'll come back and spend more time with us.

GREGORY: Thank you, Kyra. Thank you very much.

PHILLIPS: Thank you.

NGUYEN: We are continuing to bring you live team coverage as the public pays its respects to Pope John Paul II. Here's a live look right now. Our coverage continues throughout this hour on LIVE FROM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Live pictures once again from inside St. Peter's Basilica. Pope John Paul II, his body, now on public display there inside the basilica.

Tens of thousands of pilgrims and mourners, disciples, they were packed outside in the square. Now, one by one, they're getting a chance to come inside, view the body of the man that inspired them for 26 years.

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Aired April 4, 2005 - 14:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Live pictures now from the Vatican, where as many as two million people are expected to pay their last respects to Pope John Paul II. The doors are open, and we're live from the Vatican.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: As you can see, people paying respects to a beloved leader. We will look at some of the tradition behind today's rites and what you can expect in the coming days as the world says goodbye to this pope and the cardinals elect a new one.

From the CNN Center here in Atlanta, I'm Betty Nguyen, in for Miles O'Brien.

PHILLIPS: And I'm Kyra Phillips. This hour of CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.

We're covering all angles of the story as we continue to look at live pictures from Vatican right now inside St. Peter's Basilica. We have Bill Hemmer in Vatican City, Aaron Brown, Jim Bittermann, John Allen, our analyst from the Vatican.

And we're told that the pope had left no written orders for his funeral or burial. So the princes of the Church -- that is, the cardinals -- opted for tradition, including burial here in St. Peter's Basilica. While we wait to find out more as thousands of people come through, let's go to Aaron Brown live in Rome.

Aaron, is it unusual that there were no written orders?

AARON BROWN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, the truth is, I don't know. That's why in truth we have John Allen. So when we get to John, ask him. I just don't know the answer to that.

What I do know is that the College of Cardinals, or those who have assembled here -- not all have assembled yet -- have laid out the schedule for the next few days, and we know how that will play out. The Canon Law, Catholic law, requires that he funeral be held between the fourth and the sixth day, and they took that to the end of that period, the sixth day, Friday, 10:00 local time, 4:00 back on the East Coast of the United States.

So the maximum number of people who wished to share the moment that you're now able to see, this brief moment that an individual gets where they walk -- after a very long wait -- walk through, walk by, pass by the body of Pope John Paul, an intensely personal moment, we would think. In many respects an intensely private moment. It's one of those moments that as a reporter, I think we should watch a lot and say a little. Their faces say as much as any words that any of the rest of us can come up with.

But this will go on until Friday, Friday morning, and then the Church will hold its highest funeral for Pope John Paul. And the world will assemble, either literally here in Rome, or because of the reach of television around the globe it will be a funeral for a pontiff seen by more people than have ever watched such an event, and probably will be seen by more people who have ever seen any event in the history of the planet.

PHILLIPS: Aaron, you asked, and we will deliver. Stay with us.

We want to bring in John Allen now, our Vatican analyst.

And John, the question to you, we were told that the pope left no written orders for his funeral or his burial. Is that unusual?

JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Short answer is no. The truth is that of the 263 popes in the history of the Catholic Church, roughly half are buried in the grotto beneath St. Peter's Basilica. That's the traditional thing.

A pope would leave instructions only if he wished to depart from that custom. And so it's not terribly surprising that John Paul, like so many of the previous popes of the Catholic Church, decided to end up where, after all, the Catholic Church believes the bones, the remains of St. Peter himself are located, in that magnificent basilica of St. Peter's.

The bones of St. Peter are believed to have been preserved in what was an ancient Pagan burial site directly underneath the main altar of St. Peter's Basilica. And so all of those successors of St. Peter have joined the founder of the line, so to speak, in going to -- in going to their final resting place on that spot.

PHILLIPS: So two questions about that final resting place. We've heard a number of different possibilities, and also the possibility that Pope John Paul may rest there on the floor of the basilica so more people can come and visit and pay their respects. I mean, this is just probably a small example of the millions more that will want to come and visit John throughout the years.

Is it possible that they would break tradition and put Pope John Paul II's remains in a different part of the Church? Or the basilica?

ALLEN: Well, you know, anything is possible. And it pays not to be too dogmatic about these things.

But the custom is that popes are brought up and their remains displayed on the main level of the basilica only after they've been beatified or canonized. It's worth noting, for example, that this is actually not -- well, the last time that a pope laid instate inside the basilica was not 1978 when John Paul I did so, but actually a couple of years ago when -- some three years ago now when John XXIII was beatified.

His remains were brought up and laid in state, so to speak. That is, they were accessible to the public for a couple of days before they were then placed on one of the altars in the basilica. So it's not impossible, but it would be a break from custom.

PHILLIPS: Interesting, John. You talk about beatification, canonization. Is it too early to talk about sainthood in Pope John Paul II?

ALLEN: Well, I don't think it's too early because people are talking about it. I mean, particularly in Krakow, Poland, tonight, I think, you know, the buzz on the street -- and certainly not just there -- would be that, you know, if ever there was a case of somebody who is sort of -- the argument for whom sainthood seemed fairly clear -- perhaps the only recent analogy would be Mother Teresa. I think everyone agreed when Mother Teresa died that she was a living saint.

Similarly, I think there's something approaching a universal consensus, at least in the Catholic Church, that probably this man who we're laying to rest today probably also qualifies. But having said that, the Catholic Church has a relatively exacting process for this sort of thing.

There is a mandatory five-year waiting period before a case can be opened. There's a long process of collecting testimony and so forth. It has to be done on the local level in Krakow, which would then come to Rome.

All of that would have to be done to establish what's known as his heroic virtue. That is, that he lived a saintly life. Then the process of trying to identify and authenticate a miracle would begin before he could be formally beatified.

So there is a long road ahead. But I think many Catholics tonight would be saying, at the end of that process, to them the conclusion seems fairly clear.

PHILLIPS: John, one more quick question for you. You mentioned Krakow, Poland. You know, there's been talk that the Poles in the pope's homeland want to bring his heart back to Poland and have it rest where many Polish saints and royalty have been buried. Do we know if that has been confirmed and if that's even a possibility?

ALLEN: No, I certainly don't know if it's been confirmed. But I can say that it is a possibility.

Actually, for many centuries it was the custom that the pope's organs, especially the heart, would be removed from the body and then placed on display in a church here in Rome, St. Vincent and Anastasius, which is down by the Trevi Fountain.

So there certainly is precedent for it. Whether it's going to happen in this case, unfortunately I just can't say.

PHILLIPS: Our John Allen, Vatican analyst, reporting, along with our Aaron Brown. Also, Jim Bittermann and Bill Hemmer.

NGUYEN: As we watch people pile inside St. Peter's Basilica to pay their final respects to Pope John Paul II, we want to go outside now to CNN's Bill Hemmer, who is among the masses, people, millions of them standing in line waiting to get inside where that live picture you see right there to get up close and personal with the pope for one last time.

Bill, talk to us about what it's like to be in there. Because as we're watching these pictures, people are filing by quite quickly. And I'm a little surprised at that, especially after so many have come from so far to spend just a few moments with the pope.

BILL HEMMER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I tell you, Betty, that line is going to have to move fast in order to get as many people through as they expect here at the Vatican. We're told that the front of the line you have about 7,000 people right now, and now the Vatican press office is telling us there are another 70,000 already in line just outside of St. Peter's Square.

That's where I am, by the way. And I'm right near the front of the line, in fact. So you're about to hear from some people who are actually quite lucky.

The doors opened a bit early. They opened up about 25 minutes ago, which is about an hour and 15 minutes earlier than what we had heard from the Vatican a bit earlier.

Ben (ph), come on over here.

And we'll -- again, as I mentioned, Betty, this is the front of the line.

Laura (ph), you can come in here, too. You're usually my translator here.

Now, the greater majority of the people in line here are from Italy. And so with the help of some translation we're going to try and find out from them what is so special about this evening tonight.

I guess this gentleman can go first.

Laura (ph), ask him what this pope meant to him as an Italian and also as a man.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPEAKING ITALIAN).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Everything. Everything.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He got the pope on his heart.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Everything, the good things that he had done when he was alive and all the messages that he sent to the people, men in the world, men who changed the world.

He was the father of every man, of every human being. He was considered the people's father.

HEMMER: We're going to move down the line a little bit here and talk to some people down here.

Good evening to you. Italiano?

Ask them, if you could, Laura (ph), please, what their feelings are tonight knowing that the line is now moving? Which gives them a little bit of hope that they may see them sooner rather than later.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPEAKING ITALIAN)?

They are -- they are very like -- you know, they're almost in tears now that they know they're getting in. So they're almost in tears. They can't barely talk.

They're very holding (ph) in, because they know that in a few moments the will -- like they will see him for the last time. So they're very emotional about that.

HEMMER: And where does she come from? What city?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPEAKING ITALIAN)?

Rome.

HEMMER: You're in Rome. Thank you very much.

This line goes for a long time, Betty. And this is what we understand is only the beginning of what will be a four-and-a-half day vigil of people from all over the world.

And we've seen them already tonight from India, from Ireland, from New York City. We saw a whole group of nuns from the Congo who are also waiting in line. It will get chilly in the evening hours here. It's a bit past 8:00 at night, but everyone we have spoken to so far will tell us that they will not give up until they get a chance for final respects for Pope John Paul II -- Betty.

NGUYEN: And Bill, you actually got a chance to pay your final respects to the pope. Take us to that moment when you viewed the pope's body. What was that like for you?

HEMMER: I will tell you this, the Vatican is one of the most stunning places in the world from a physical standpoint. They took some of the greatest architects of the Renaissance Age and the greatest artists in the history of this planet and they were commissioned by the popes at that time to paint some of the most beautiful pieces of art in the world.

And inside the Apostolic Palace, just outside where the pope's body was lying earlier today for that private viewing, the frescos painted by people like Raphael line the ceilings and they line the walls. And the floors are made of marble, and the doors are made of the most innate -- ornate, rather, carved wood that you will ever come across in your life. And as you go down this hallway -- it was very crowded, by the way, for a private viewing. I was quite surprised by how many people were there. But as you get closer and closer, you can hear the rosary being chanted by the -- by the Italian nuns and the priests who had gathered there. There were priests kneeling by the side of Pope John Paul II.

And then when you finally get up to see him, you can see this man tilted on a bed with his body facing forward, forward to the people who have come to pay their final respects right near his feet. He had a rosary in his hand. There was a candle burning to the right, there was a large crucifix set off to the left-hand side.

And there he lie earlier today just like he has for the past two days for that private viewing, and will now for four-and-a-half more days in St. Peter's Basilica behind me. The viewing is now under way, and now we'll all watch this stream of people from all over the world come to say a prayer or have a final thought and a private thought among themselves for the next four-and-a-half days -- Betty.

NGUYEN: And participate in a moment that they will always remember. Bill Hemmer in St. Peter's Square. Thank you.

British mourners are showing their affection and admiration for the pope. Many packed London's West Minister Cathedral today for a special memorial service.

Britain's Prince Charles cut short his Swiss skiing holiday to attend that. So did his fiancee, Camilla Parker Bowles.

British Prime Minister Tony Blair is also among the senior dignitaries paying their respects.

The archbishop of Westminster praised the pope as a great leader, a great Christian and a great man.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARDINAL CORMAC MURPHY-O'CONNOR, ARCHBISHOP OF WESTMINSTER: Indeed, the response of so many millions of all faiths and none of different races and ages to the passing of the Polish pope has been simply overwhelming. It has left me deeply moved at times and full of gratitude. I leave for Rome tonight uplifted by this response, for if one man's dying can evoke such an outpouring of love and gratitude, then it is true we are all in god's hands.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NGUYEN: The pope's death is affecting the marriage plans of Prince Charles and Camilla Parker Bowles. That ceremony will now be delayed until Saturday to allow the prince to attend the pope's funeral on Friday.

Tony Blair and the archbishop of Canterbury also plan to attend. The postponement means the archbishop will be able to bless the royal union after the civil ceremony. Blair is expected to attend that blessing service as well.

PHILLIPS: Pope John Paul II logged more travels than any of his predecessors, and there was a method to the miles. Just ahead, we're going to talk about the pope's missions to third world countries and their impact on the future of the Church. And I'll be joined by Archbishop Wilton Gregory to talk about how this pope reached out to African-American Catholics just after a break.

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NGUYEN: You're looking at a live picture inside St. Peter's Basilica, where many have come to see the pope as he lie in state there, pay their final respects. They have waited in line for hours for this special moment with the pope, this one last moment with the pope.

Thousands have come. In fact, millions. Some two million people are expected to pay their last respect to Pope John Paul II as he lie in state. His funeral, of course, will be held on Friday.

PHILLIPS: Well, Pope John Paul II set a tone of peace, reconciliation and social justice for a Roman Catholic Church reaching out more and more to diverse racial and ethnic groups. Archbishop Wilton Gregory remembers that well. He was introduced last year as the new leader of the Roman Catholics here in Atlanta. He joins us live to talk about his personal time with Pope John Paul II and his plans to carry on a tremendous spiritual legacy here in Georgia.

Pleasure to have you with us.

ARCHBISHOP WILTON GREGORY, ARCHDIOCESE OF ATLANTA: Thank you very much, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: You brought in some wonderful pictures of you and Pope John Paul II. Tell me about your time with him and the conversations and how it moved you.

GREGORY: Every time I had the great honor to be with the holy father it was always a deeply moving and a spiritual encounter. He was a man of extraordinary interests, always wanted to know about what was going on in the Church in the United States, and deeply engaged with the bishops that he spoke to.

And he made you feel comfortable. It was not at all difficult to speak to him.

PHILLIPS: What was this I heard about he said to you something about becoming the president of the United States?

GREGORY: Well, obviously during the last three years I served as president of the Conference of U.S. Bishops. And he knew that, and he knew that many of the occasions that we were together were because of my office as president of the conference.

And on one occasion when I walked into the room, he looked up at me. And with that smile on his face, he said, "Ah, Bishop Gregory, the president of the United States," and then he chuckled. But he was -- he was an extraordinarily warm, loving human being.

PHILLIPS: And he had a sense of humor.

GREGORY: Oh, a very fine sense of humor. Very fine sense of humor.

PHILLIPS: But never any jokes?

GREGORY: Well, never that he himself told, but he always loved a good humorous story.

PHILLIPS: Really?

GREGORY: Oh, sure. He would chuckle and laugh. And he was very human.

PHILLIPS: Well, I want to talk to you about that human side a little bit more. And talk about reaching out to African-Americans.

And I've read a lot about what he has done just on the -- with civil rights and human rights. And in 1987, when he was in New Orleans, and he was talking to black Catholic leaders, he said, "The Church needs you, and you need the Church."

Was he progressive in that manner with regard to diversifying the Church, especially among leaders?

GREGORY: Oh, clearly. He meant by that statement that there was -- there were gifts that African-Americans have to offer to the Church, and there's a gift that the Church has to offer to African- Americans.

It's a bi-directional relationship. And both the Catholic Church in the United States is changed, is influenced is -- is seasoned by the gifts of African-Americans. And we African-Americans have been changed by our contact with the Catholic Church.

There's a tremendous heritage of Catholicism among African- Americans that has taken place through the Catholic schools. I myself am a product of the Catholic schools, and Catholic today because of the encounter that my family had with the Catholic educational system.

So we have been shaped. And hopefully, we are shaping the Church by our heritage. And we've received a great deal from the generosity and the love of Catholics in the United States.

PHILLIPS: Talking about culture and heritage, I remember when he visited the House of Slaves, and he talked about the sin of racism.

GREGORY: Yes.

PHILLIPS: And he had said, "Racism is a sin that constitutes a serious offense against god."

Where do you think his sensitivity -- do you think it was living in an occupied country that created maybe more of a sensitivity to abolish racism?

GREGORY: Pope John Paul II had one of the most sophisticated and theologically-grounded understandings of the dignity of the human person that I think we've witnessed in the recent past. He never varied from his strong belief that the human person is a reflection of the image of god and that we enjoy profound dignity because god has fashioned us after himself.

And therefore, any system that compromises or belittles the human person is an offense against god: slavery, economic oppression, actions against innocent human life. You know, it all fit for the holy father. He didn't compartmentalize his social teaching, but he saw it as a systemic response to god's goodness in creating the human person.

PHILLIPS: I have to ask you a final question. Could we see a black pope? Could we see a Hispanic pope?

GREGORY: Certainly that is a possibility. The College of Cardinals that are gathered now, it seems to me the first questions they have to ask themselves -- and I know they're asking them -- what does the Church need? What are the qualities, the gifts, the strengths necessary in the next pontiff to address the needs that the Church faces and the challenges that we face? Then, who possesses those?

And I think it's in that order that they will go about their task. And whoever possesses those from whatever background, race, culture they come, the College of Cardinals will put their faith in that individual.

PHILLIPS: Bishop Wilton Gregory, welcome to Atlanta. I hope you will come back.

I know you've been very progressive with reform, especially during the sex abuse crisis. I know you even said spiritually it's dropped you to your knees. And you've been very active in making changes in the Church. I hope you'll come back and spend more time with us.

GREGORY: Thank you, Kyra. Thank you very much.

PHILLIPS: Thank you.

NGUYEN: We are continuing to bring you live team coverage as the public pays its respects to Pope John Paul II. Here's a live look right now. Our coverage continues throughout this hour on LIVE FROM.

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PHILLIPS: Live pictures once again from inside St. Peter's Basilica. Pope John Paul II, his body, now on public display there inside the basilica.

Tens of thousands of pilgrims and mourners, disciples, they were packed outside in the square. Now, one by one, they're getting a chance to come inside, view the body of the man that inspired them for 26 years.

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