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Attorney: Brian Nichols Does Not Have Right to Impartial Jury; Police Searching for Beer Bottles in Missing Girl Case; Dozens Killed in Paris Hotel Fire; Above Average Hurricane Year Predicted; Tax Cheats Pass Bill to Other Taxpayers
Aired April 15, 2005 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CO-HOST: Returning to the scene of the crime, Brian Nichols at the Fulton County courthouse today for the first time since he allegedly went on a deadly rampage and elsewhere in Atlanta more than just a month ago.
CNN's Tony Harris is covering that for us -- Tony.
TONY HARRIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Kyra.
As you mentioned, the first public appearance of any kind for Brian Nichols since March 15 and the first time he's been in this courtroom -- courthouse behind me since March 11. And we all know what happened on that day.
Brian Nichols is accused of but has not been charged yet with killing three Fulton County employees. Want to show you some pictures from the hearing that transpired about 9:30 this morning inside the courthouse with -- in front of Judge Hilton Fuller.
As you can see, Brian Nichols is here in a nice suit, open collar. We can tell you his feet were shackled, that his hands were free. There were eight armed officers in the courtroom with him at the time.
So why was Brian Nichols here today? Well, he was here for a hearing on a defense motion to voir dire or to question prospective grand jury members before they're seated. And this is a two-part motion from the defense. The other part is asking that once the grand jury is seated that they be allowed to videotape the entire proceedings of the grand jury process.
For the defense, representing Brian Nichols, this is all about pretrial publicity and its potential impact on the jury pool. Want to take you inside the hearing room this morning to give you a little bit of the give and take between the attorneys this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the question I think is going to be whether these jurors are going to be able to be fair and whether they're going to be able to base their finding in this case on the evidence presented to them in a court of law.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have confidence in the court to conduct a voir dire in such a way that it would reveal a juror that, to the extent the defendant has a due process right to an impartial jury. And I'm not suggesting he does. I don't believe that he does have a right to an impartial jury based on this case and based for the reasons that I've cited in my brief.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: I've got to tell you, sort of a stunning statement. I had to jot it down myself. You heard it just a moment ago from the ADA, saying this morning that she is not sure that Nichols has a right to an impartial jury based on the case.
And I've got to tell you, Kyra, this is the kind of statement that will likely end up in a defense motion that will ask that the Fulton County district attorney's office be recused or disqualified from even hearing, trying, prosecuting the Brian Nichols' case.
A couple of other notes before I go. During the hearing, Nichols was described as subdued, attentive. He talked to his attorneys and did on occasions look around to survey the courtroom.
After the hearing, I want you to hear some of the comments from Brian Nichols' mother, Claritha Nichols (ph), as she was leaving the courthouse building.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We really are here to support our son.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How is your son doing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very good. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As well as can be expected under the circumstances.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he say anything to you about (INAUDIBLE)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tell us how the family is holding up under this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are you holding up?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's very difficult. Extremely difficult.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you worried about him?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Any mother would be concerned about her son in a situation like this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: As for the motion, Judge Fuller is not going to rule on the motion today. He is going to take his time. He's made that clear to all of us, that he is going to take his time before rendering any decision on any motion. In fact, he has given both sides of this case some additional homework to do.
So Kyra, is looks like we're in for a lengthy pretrial process.
PHILLIPS: And no doubt we'll follow it all. Tony Harris, thanks -- Miles.
In west central Florida today, volunteers looking for 13-year-old Sarah Lunde are also looking for beer bottles, of all things. Tonight will mark six full days since Sarah was last seen in the town of Ruskin in Hillsborough County, just south of Tampa.
CNN's Susan Candiotti is there. She joins us now -- Susan.
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Miles.
As searchers continue to look for Sarah Lunde, a curious development, as you pointed out. Police are telling their search teams, including volunteers, to look out for a particular brand of beer bottles.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CANDIOTTI (voice-over): As of 8 this morning, the sheriff's office has made a decision to collect discarded Bud or Bud Light glass bottles that are found in the immediate search area, and I'd like to emphasize that. We're talking the immediate area around the scene here where Sarah disappeared from. If anyone should find any discarded Bud or Bud Light bottles, we'd ask that you not molest them and that you just go ahead and contact the sheriff's office.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CANDIOTTI: Now, what could be the connection to Sarah Lunde's disappearance? Police have said, remember, that she returned home late Saturday night from a church outing. Her brother told police, a man who used to have a relationship with Sarah's mother showed up early Sunday looking for the mother who wasn't there and then that man, David Onstott, left with a beer bottle.
Now, he is not being called a suspect in this case. However, police have said of him, quote, "He has our attention." He is being held in jail without bond on unrelated charges.
Meantime, not far from where we are reporting, the command post, searchers continue to pick their way through the neighborhood around Sarah's house and areas stretching out to up to a mile and then even beyond that as they look for any signs of her.
And now we also know they are looking for Bud or Bud Light beer bottles. Now, we hope have to have an update on the search by day's end when the sheriff plans to tell us more.
Back to you, Miles.
O'BRIEN: Susan Candiotti, Hillsborough County, thank you -- Kyra. PHILLIPS: A Parisian firefighter's description of this morning's inferno at a hotel filled with tourists and recent immigrants, France's president calls it a most painful catastrophe. At least 20 people dead, half of them children, several others clinging to life.
CNN's Paula Hancocks has been following the story. She brings us the latest now.
Hi, Paula.
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Kyra.
Well, there's still firefighters hosing the top floors of this building down some 17 hours after it first broke out. So that can give you some idea of how fierce this fire was.
Now, the latest figures we do have from the fire brigade is 20 people lost their lives. They say that may not be the definitive list. That could go higher. Ten of the deaths were children. And also, there's more than 50 that have been injured, about 11 of those with very serious injuries, we're being told.
Now this fire broke out on the first floor in the breakfast room and swiftly swept to the staircase, the only staircase in the hotel. That is the vital thing that people are investigating at the moment, the fact it was the only staircase. People trapped in the above floors were not able to get out.
There's a six-story hotel, and the fire started on the first floor. There was no fire escape. Many of the guests were on the roof, trying to be rescued by the firefighters, who were on the scene very quickly, but unable to go in to find survivors because it was so fierce.
So police forensics sifting through the rubble at the moment to try and find out exactly what happened and why this fire spread so quickly.
Now, it is thought that half the people inside were tourists. Half were social welfare cases, which were put there by the state until they could find permanent housing. A lot of nationalities among the injured. We have Americans. We have Canadians, French, Ukraine, Senegalese and Tunisian and also some from the Ivory Coast. They're not making any comment as yet of the nationalities of the dead -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right. Paula Hancocks, we'll follow up on the story with you. Thank you so much.
A California boy who allegedly called another boy with a baseball bat is due to appear today in juvenile court. The victim is 15-year- old Jeremy Rourke, struck twice allegedly in a snack bar line after a Pony League game that the suspect's team had lost.
It happened Tuesday in Palmdale. That's just northeast of Los Angeles. And the community is still in shock. The winning team's coach says the 13-year-old suspect is a good kid who made a bad decision. He is being charged as a juvenile with murder.
Well, a close call in the big leagues, but what could have been a Fenway free-for-all ended up just a single shove. Here's the video right here. What do you think happened?
More hard feelings in the age-old feud between the Boston Red Sox and New York Yankees. This is Gary Sheffield responding to a Bosox fan's attempt to snatch up a ball, or maybe to mess with Sheffield, try and mess up the play there in last night's game.
The Yankee says he almost snapped but he restrained himself when he thought about the consequences. Good decision, Gary. It didn't hurt that security was on the scene within seconds. That fan was thrown out. The game went on, Boston won, 5-3.
O'BRIEN: Could have turned into an Auburn Hills situation.
Live pictures now high above the Pacific Ocean. Star Gazer is in the sky, Pegasus holding on in the belly. Dart will fly in just about 14 minutes from now. And it's all kind of like HAL.
Do you get any of this? We're talking space, of course.
Dart, it's a little probe that will be carried to space aboard that Pegasus rocket. As you see the control room there now, some of NASA's finest there, getting ready to push the button to send Pegasus into space.
Let me show you what will happen as it occurs, some animation. Down it will drop from the L-10/11 from orbital science, the Pegasus rocket, give it about a 12-minute ride into space.
Dart, with a brain of its own, will find a retired military communications satellite. Using lasers, all by itself, no human intervention, will ask it to open the pod bay doors and stuff and will actually dock with this retired communications satellite if all goes well.
All this will happen in about 21 hours time, and then this $120 million mission will be over. And hopefully, if all goes well, NASA will have learned a little something about what it might take to send spacecraft back to the moon and maybe on to Mars.
All right. The tax man comes today. Pay for all this fun up in space. Are deadbeats forcing to you pay more than your share, though? We're crunching the numbers ahead on LIVE FROM.
Also ahead, will we go through this again? Hurricane experts are huddling, making their predictions for the next season. It's not a pretty picture, folks. We're live from the Bahamas. Jacqui Jeras on an amazing weather junket. I mean an important fact-finding mission in the Bahamas. Good job, Jacqui. We'll check in with you in just a moment. There on the beach, working hard.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) O'BRIEN: Back-to-back hurricanes slammed Florida last year, just like my shin got slammed on this stand right here. What's -- what's in store for 2005, you may ask? CNN meteorologist Jacqui Jeras drew the long straw. She's in the Bahamas, where experts are trying to gauge upcoming hurricane season prognostication, in between visits to the pool there on Paradise Island.
I know you're working hard. I am making fun of you a little bit...
JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: I know.
O'BRIEN: ... just because this is, you know, not a bad location, at least, in which to be talking about serious matters.
But Bill Gray's forecast, which came out, and you've discussed a little bit, is quite grim, isn't it? And you've got to tell people how significant his forecasts are.
JERAS: Well, I think it's very significant. And Miles, we've actually been talking for awhile that we're expecting an upward trend over the next couple of years, that it's going to continue to be very active.
But for the first time today what I heard is he was talking about these cycles that we get every 20, 30, 40 years, where we see upward trends and then quiet trends. And he thinks that we're in the middle of a 20-year cycle that began back in 1995.
So basically what he's saying is expect more frequent, more intense hurricanes, not just for the next year, not just for the next two years but for the next 15 years. So that would take us right up to 2020. So that's pretty significant. This is a long time that we're going to have to go through another year, another 15 years like last year.
His forecast actually came out on April 1. And he is expecting to see 13 named storms, seven of which become hurricanes and three of those becoming major hurricanes.
How does that compare to normal? On an average season we see about 10 named storms and about six of those become hurricanes, three of which become major hurricanes.
He still has a little bit of uncertainty in his forecast, depending on what happens with El Nino. We've been seeing some signs that maybe a little bit of a mild, moderate El Nino could be developing. So we're going to have to wait to see what happens with that.
Of course, an El Nino year, as we get La Nina in the Atlantic, which keeps activity down a little bit. So that would actually help us out.
The other significant thing that he said, in addition to all of these named storms, he says there's a 75 percent chance that a major hurricane will sit somewhere along the U.S. coastline, into the Gulf Coast or into the Atlantic states. So certainly the news is grim, not looking good for the future.
NOAA also agrees that things are going to be above normal this season. However, they have not released their official numbers. Max Mayfield, the director of the National Hurricane Center, is here. He's been talking about it. They're going to be releasing that May 15, which is when National Hurricane Awareness Week is. So that will be revealed the upcoming month.
There also have been a lot of other interesting things that have been mentioned here, Miles, too, by the way. We've been talking a lot on panel discussions. And CNN's own John Zarrella was in one of the panel displays yesterday, talking about the media's role and the responsibility we have to relay correct information to the viewer and let them perceive it the right way.
There's been a lot of controversy about what happened with Charley last year. Everybody was thinking -- the public perceived it was going to be Tampa, Tampa, Tampa. And then it was a little bit of a surprise for some people when Punta Gorda is the place that got hit.
O'BRIEN: Yes, we did, indeed, focus a little bit too much on Tampa, probably assumed that the predictions were a little too dead- on. And that's worth pointing out here.
Bill Gray's predictions historically have been very accurate, but nevertheless, this kind of thing is very difficult to guess and to figure out. And even though he does use a very complicated arithmetic formula, we really don't know how many of these storms are really going to make landfall and where they're going to hit. And that's the key issue, isn't it?
JERAS: Right. Absolutely. It's the key issue. And not only where it hits but also how strong it's going to be. You know, you get a tropical storm, you get a category one. Obviously, not nearly as catastrophic as what we saw with Francis and with Jeanne.
And of course, the size of the storm, too. Just imagine how catastrophic Charley would have been had it been a much broader scaled storm. Instead, it was a smaller storm, very tightly packed, but it wasn't as big, which, really, I think, saved a lot of lives.
O'BRIEN: All right. And we should ask -- if I could ask your photographer to pan down. I want to tell our viewers that Jacqui's been involved in a Bahamian sand temperature project. And she's getting firsthand data right now on the temperature of the sands there at Paradise Island for a scientific paper that she's working on. Right? And that's why you have to be on the beach...
JERAS: Yes, I am.
O'BRIEN: ... in bare feet doing this report for us, right?
JERAS: I'm guessing about 75 degrees.
O'BRIEN: Excellent.
JERAS: It feels very nice and comfortable out here, but the wind is blowing. If it makes you feel any better being back there in the studio, yesterday, you know, that cold front that moved through there in Atlanta and brought your temperatures way down, that came through here yesterday.
O'BRIEN: All right.
JERAS: We actually had rain and clouds.
O'BRIEN: All right.
JERAS: So it hasn't all been fun in the sun.
O'BRIEN: Hoist an umbrella drink for me. Jacqui Jeras there in the Bahamas, we appreciate it -- Kyra.
JERAS: All right, Miles.
PHILLIPS: Jealousy. Miles, did you get your taxes done?
O'BRIEN: No.
PHILLIPS: You didn't?
O'BRIEN: No.
PHILLIPS: So you're filing an extension?
O'BRIEN: I already did. I told you I did that back in January. I knew.
PHILLIPS: Yes, you knew.
O'BRIEN: I knew. No, it's going to be at least August, maybe -- sometimes I end up in October. Frequently that happens to me.
PHILLIPS: Why does that not surprise me?
O'BRIEN: Yes.
PHILLIPS: All right, taxpayers, tax cheats, maybe those that just never get the taxes done like Miles, we're going to talk about who actually ends up footing the bill. Straight ahead.
Kind of love the music. Look at that. I'm just going to be quiet so you can listen.
(MUSIC: "Taxman" by the Beatles)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Well, it's now or never for millions of Americans scrambling to finish their income tax returns. You have until midnight to pay or ask to delay. And for some, there's a third option. Ignore.
CNN's Mary Snow looks at taxpayers, tax cheats and who really foots the bill.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At New York's H&R Block, these Americans are about to do what many do not, pay their taxes.
JAN STROM, FLORIDA TAXPAYER: I am afraid of getting audited because it's always a hassle to find all the records, and you want to do it absolutely perfectly. It's scary.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not afraid of getting audited because I haven't done anything bad.
SNOW: In fact, the IRS says 15 percent of all taxes go unpaid, as much as $353 billion. Only $55 billion of that, the IRS says, will be recovered. So who's making up for that shortfall?
SHELDON COHEN, FORMER IRS COMMISSION: Us wage earners, the people who work for a living and who have -- are compliant. The people who comply with the law are being stolen from.
SNOW: Stolen to the tune of $2,000 annually per taxpayer, according to the Treasury Department. So who are these people adding to your tax bill?
MAX SAWICKY, ECONOMIC POLICY INSTITUTE: It's unincorporated business firms. It's proprietors. It's the self-employed. It's corporations and it's very wealthy people who abuse the law with fancy tax shelters.
SNOW: Economist Sawicky says there's also $30 billion of missing taxes that are owed by people who don't bother to file any income tax returns. Sawicky says part of the blame belongs to the IRS, which he says, doesn't have the manpower it needs to do the job.
SAWICKY: The IRS has less resources to deal with a bigger economy today than it had 10 years ago. It -- of course, we have more filers all the time. We have a bigger economy, more income. We have more complicated financial transactions.
COHEN: The present commissioner has made it an emphasis to-- to increase the number of audits. But it's coming back too slowly to really be effective.
SNOW: Mary Snow, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: All right. Time to bring in the Dolans. But before we do that, let's go back to about 30,000 feet or so above the Pacific, actually closer to 40,000 right now. There's the Lockheed 10/11 run by Orbital Sciences, contracted by NASA. Look at the belly. You can see it almost looks like it has a bomb there. It's not a bomb. That's the Pegasus rocket which delivers small payloads to lower orbits, which is seen roughly 250 miles above us. At the tip of that is the Dart spacecraft, going to launch. And it's going...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Copy, check 173.
O'BRIEN: They're still going through some preliminary stuff. Let's go to the Dolans, and if it gets close, we'll drop in and the Dolans will help us launch Dart. What do you think?
KEN DOLAN, CO-HOST, "DOLANS UNSCRIPTED": I swear to heavens we can't get on the air on this network. What's going on here?
O'BRIEN: Back -- let's go back to the Pacific, shall we? Hey, Dolans.
K. DOLAN: Please, launch this rocket.
DARIA DOLAN, CO-HOST, "DOLANS UNSCRIPTED": Hi, Miles.
O'BRIEN: You know what? This is a good day to talk about a $120 million space mission to figure out if spacecraft can dock by themselves, because today is the day we pay for this.
K. DOLAN: Yes, yes. Yes, Miles, your tax dollars at work. Even the IRS doesn't understand the tax code. We waste $3 billion...
O'BRIEN: You've got to be a rocket scientist, don't you?
K. DOLAN: Don't be funnier in than me, Miles.
O'BRIEN: I'm sorry. I do the straight lines.
K. DOLAN: We're wasting -- it takes the average tax preparer 10 hours, us, 10 hours to put it together. We're wasting three billion hours a year doing it. And 49 percent of Americans say they'd rather go to the dentist than do their taxes.
Thank you very much, good-bye, Miles.
O'BRIEN: That's all you need to say, right?
D. DOLAN: No. Well, no.
O'BRIEN: You've got more. I know you've got more, Daria. Talk to me.
D. DOLAN: There is a lot more to say.
O'BRIEN: Yes.
D. DOLAN: And in fact, we had a discussion with Paul O'Neill, the former treasury -- treasury secretary. And I want you to take a listen to something he had to say on the topic. O'BRIEN: Let's do that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL O'NEILL, FORMER TREASURY SECRETARY: We should start with a blank piece of paper, and we should say there will be no credits and there will be no deductions. We're going to use the tax system to collect revenues that are necessary to do the business of the people.
But I'm very much in favor of simplification that tries to get the tax code from 10,000 pages to 10 pages.
D. DOLAN: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
K. DOLAN: Oh, man, give me a break. Come on.
O'BRIEN: Give me a break. That's -- that's not going to happen. That's not going to happen.
K. DOLAN: It's not going to happen, Miles.
D. DOLAN: Well, but you know, interestingly enough, there's an awful lot of people handicapping the fact that the president has said along with Social Security, tax reform is one of his legacy issues. And a lot of people are saying it's not going to happen.
But there's a great argument being made by some people who I think probably would have the solution inasmuch as allow taxpayers to opt with sticking with the old tax system or opting to pay a 19 percent flat tax, no muss, no fuss and let us choose.
K. DOLAN: Exactly right.
D. DOLAN: We are government by the people. And, of course, it's run by the money of the people.
O'BRIEN: Well, here's the thing, though. The installed base of people who make money off of this 10,000 page tax code...
K. DOLAN: Yes.
O'BRIEN: And the lobbying effort that would go along with that, everything from tax attorneys to CPAs to H&R Block, that's why it won't change. I hate to be a pessimist, but it it's just not going to happen.
D. DOLAN: Well, which is why overall change won't happen. I totally agree with you, Miles. I'll let you in, in a second. Don't be a smart aleck.
O'BRIEN: I think it's Ken...
D. DOLAN: I waited three weeks to get here.
O'BRIEN: And I've got just the way to quiet him. We're now 15 seconds to launch of the Pegasus rocket.
K. DOLAN: Oh!
O'BRIEN: Stay with us. Stay with us, guys. Can you see this picture right now? Can you see that? Let's watch it. Let's listen.
D. DOLAN: Oh, wow.
K. DOLAN: Look at that.
D. DOLAN: Look at that.
O'BRIEN: It goes down. Off goes the rocket.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The launch of the -- the launch of the Pegasus rocket with Dart pursuing the limits of automated technology for rendezvous in space.
O'BRIEN: You know what would be -- what would be great rocket fuel, guys, if they could jam up the 10,000 page tax code, put it in a ball and light that.
D. DOLAN: Send it into orbit.
O'BRIEN: Send it to orbit.
K. DOLAN: Miles, don't forget that this is a family program, when you talk like that.
O'BRIEN: Yes, I know. I know.
K. DOLAN: By the way -- by the way, just quickly, Paul O'Neill will be our guest. And we're going to talk about health care and tax reform and Social Security when he joins us on satellite.
O'BRIEN: Absolutely. That's tomorrow, Saturday, on "THE DOLANS UNSCRIPTED."
K. DOLAN: Yes.
O'BRIEN: And there we go to another shot. On its way it goes. Dart is on its way to a rendezvous with a retired military communications satellite. Everything will be done without human intervention, guys. Think of this. The astronaut corps must hate this mission because of the whole notion that you could have an orbiting HAL at the controls. "Open the pod bay doors, please." You know, that kind of stuff.
K. DOLAN: Well, I'll tell you, Miles. I know you've got enormous scientific information, and we really love your stuff when you cover this stuff. But I say forget the missiles and let's feed the people in food lines in America and forget the $250 million.
O'BRIEN: Now, now, now, now. Let me just tell you this, guys. First of all, if it really were true that if you didn't pay for this, that would feed every hungry person, I'd go along with it, but it doesn't go that way. All right?
K. DOLAN: All right.
O'BRIEN: But that's for another day.
K. DOLAN: All right.
O'BRIEN: Let's talk about something important.
K. DOLAN: What?
O'BRIEN: The Red Sox.
K. DOLAN: Thank you very much.
D. DOLAN: Oh, boy.
O'BRIEN: There are many people -- there are many people who say this fan might have gone over the line. We have -- we have dissected this tape. Let's roll the tape. We think -- can you take a shot of me, Scotty, real quick, before we roll the tape? I guess not. Here we go.
We think he was doing this, you know, the keep running sign. All right. Now, let's watch it.
K. DOLAN: OK, all right.
O'BRIEN: And see what you think. A lot of people think he might have taken a swipe at Sheffield. What do you guys think?
K. DOLAN: There's the hit.
O'BRIEN: Yes. There's the hit. Sheffield into the right corner. There's no foul territory there, of course. That's a live ball, as you know. And there you go.
K. DOLAN: Whoa!
O'BRIEN: Whoa, now what happened?
D. DOLAN: Who threw the first punch?
O'BRIEN: Well...
K. DOLAN: Look at the guy.
D. DOLAN: Can you tell me you were going to the movies last night.
K. DOLAN: No way. That guy is a Red Sox fan. I'm from Boston. He should be banned from Fenway Park forever. He took a shot at Gary Sheffield who I could care less about because I'm not a Yankee fan.
O'BRIEN: Yes.
K. DOLAN: And that's not right, Miles.
O'BRIEN: OK. What do you think, Daria?
D. DOLAN: I totally concur. If we don't start cracking down on unruly fans, it's going to exacerbate the problem and more people are thinking that they can get away with this.
O'BRIEN: The problem is most Red Sox fans don't know what exacerbate means.
D. DOLAN: Oh!
K. DOLAN: Easy, Miles.
O'BRIEN: I'm a Red Sox fan. Don't worry.
K. DOLAN: Oh, you are.
O'BRIEN: That's all right.
K. DOLAN: I'll tell you, we're not a very good example to our kids, Miles.
O'BRIEN: Yes.
K. DOLAN: And I think that's a perfect example. My daddy swung at Gary Sheffield. If it comes to me, I'll swing at the next guy. It's foolish.
O'BRIEN: Well, you do have a point there. All right, guys. "DOLANS UNSCRIPTED," that's tomorrow, Saturday. What time is it?
K. DOLAN: Ten o'clock in the morning.
D. DOLAN: Ten a.m.
O'BRIEN: It's in my TiVo so I never know when it actually airs.
K. DOLAN: We love you, Miles.
O'BRIEN: Ten a.m. Eastern. You guys are great.
D. DOLAN: Thanks.
O'BRIEN: Paul O'Neill. Maybe they'll talk about the Red Sox. And they'll do a replay of the Dart launch, in case you wanted to see that again. Right? Yes, sure.
K. DOLAN: Bye, Miles. We love you.
O'BRIEN: Always a pleasure -- Kyra.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS (voice-over): Next on LIVE FROM...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Man down, man down.
PHILLIPS: Robots to the rescue on the battlefield.
END
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Aired April 15, 2005 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CO-HOST: Returning to the scene of the crime, Brian Nichols at the Fulton County courthouse today for the first time since he allegedly went on a deadly rampage and elsewhere in Atlanta more than just a month ago.
CNN's Tony Harris is covering that for us -- Tony.
TONY HARRIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Kyra.
As you mentioned, the first public appearance of any kind for Brian Nichols since March 15 and the first time he's been in this courtroom -- courthouse behind me since March 11. And we all know what happened on that day.
Brian Nichols is accused of but has not been charged yet with killing three Fulton County employees. Want to show you some pictures from the hearing that transpired about 9:30 this morning inside the courthouse with -- in front of Judge Hilton Fuller.
As you can see, Brian Nichols is here in a nice suit, open collar. We can tell you his feet were shackled, that his hands were free. There were eight armed officers in the courtroom with him at the time.
So why was Brian Nichols here today? Well, he was here for a hearing on a defense motion to voir dire or to question prospective grand jury members before they're seated. And this is a two-part motion from the defense. The other part is asking that once the grand jury is seated that they be allowed to videotape the entire proceedings of the grand jury process.
For the defense, representing Brian Nichols, this is all about pretrial publicity and its potential impact on the jury pool. Want to take you inside the hearing room this morning to give you a little bit of the give and take between the attorneys this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the question I think is going to be whether these jurors are going to be able to be fair and whether they're going to be able to base their finding in this case on the evidence presented to them in a court of law.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have confidence in the court to conduct a voir dire in such a way that it would reveal a juror that, to the extent the defendant has a due process right to an impartial jury. And I'm not suggesting he does. I don't believe that he does have a right to an impartial jury based on this case and based for the reasons that I've cited in my brief.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: I've got to tell you, sort of a stunning statement. I had to jot it down myself. You heard it just a moment ago from the ADA, saying this morning that she is not sure that Nichols has a right to an impartial jury based on the case.
And I've got to tell you, Kyra, this is the kind of statement that will likely end up in a defense motion that will ask that the Fulton County district attorney's office be recused or disqualified from even hearing, trying, prosecuting the Brian Nichols' case.
A couple of other notes before I go. During the hearing, Nichols was described as subdued, attentive. He talked to his attorneys and did on occasions look around to survey the courtroom.
After the hearing, I want you to hear some of the comments from Brian Nichols' mother, Claritha Nichols (ph), as she was leaving the courthouse building.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We really are here to support our son.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How is your son doing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very good. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As well as can be expected under the circumstances.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he say anything to you about (INAUDIBLE)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tell us how the family is holding up under this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are you holding up?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's very difficult. Extremely difficult.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you worried about him?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Any mother would be concerned about her son in a situation like this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: As for the motion, Judge Fuller is not going to rule on the motion today. He is going to take his time. He's made that clear to all of us, that he is going to take his time before rendering any decision on any motion. In fact, he has given both sides of this case some additional homework to do.
So Kyra, is looks like we're in for a lengthy pretrial process.
PHILLIPS: And no doubt we'll follow it all. Tony Harris, thanks -- Miles.
In west central Florida today, volunteers looking for 13-year-old Sarah Lunde are also looking for beer bottles, of all things. Tonight will mark six full days since Sarah was last seen in the town of Ruskin in Hillsborough County, just south of Tampa.
CNN's Susan Candiotti is there. She joins us now -- Susan.
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Miles.
As searchers continue to look for Sarah Lunde, a curious development, as you pointed out. Police are telling their search teams, including volunteers, to look out for a particular brand of beer bottles.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CANDIOTTI (voice-over): As of 8 this morning, the sheriff's office has made a decision to collect discarded Bud or Bud Light glass bottles that are found in the immediate search area, and I'd like to emphasize that. We're talking the immediate area around the scene here where Sarah disappeared from. If anyone should find any discarded Bud or Bud Light bottles, we'd ask that you not molest them and that you just go ahead and contact the sheriff's office.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CANDIOTTI: Now, what could be the connection to Sarah Lunde's disappearance? Police have said, remember, that she returned home late Saturday night from a church outing. Her brother told police, a man who used to have a relationship with Sarah's mother showed up early Sunday looking for the mother who wasn't there and then that man, David Onstott, left with a beer bottle.
Now, he is not being called a suspect in this case. However, police have said of him, quote, "He has our attention." He is being held in jail without bond on unrelated charges.
Meantime, not far from where we are reporting, the command post, searchers continue to pick their way through the neighborhood around Sarah's house and areas stretching out to up to a mile and then even beyond that as they look for any signs of her.
And now we also know they are looking for Bud or Bud Light beer bottles. Now, we hope have to have an update on the search by day's end when the sheriff plans to tell us more.
Back to you, Miles.
O'BRIEN: Susan Candiotti, Hillsborough County, thank you -- Kyra. PHILLIPS: A Parisian firefighter's description of this morning's inferno at a hotel filled with tourists and recent immigrants, France's president calls it a most painful catastrophe. At least 20 people dead, half of them children, several others clinging to life.
CNN's Paula Hancocks has been following the story. She brings us the latest now.
Hi, Paula.
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Kyra.
Well, there's still firefighters hosing the top floors of this building down some 17 hours after it first broke out. So that can give you some idea of how fierce this fire was.
Now, the latest figures we do have from the fire brigade is 20 people lost their lives. They say that may not be the definitive list. That could go higher. Ten of the deaths were children. And also, there's more than 50 that have been injured, about 11 of those with very serious injuries, we're being told.
Now this fire broke out on the first floor in the breakfast room and swiftly swept to the staircase, the only staircase in the hotel. That is the vital thing that people are investigating at the moment, the fact it was the only staircase. People trapped in the above floors were not able to get out.
There's a six-story hotel, and the fire started on the first floor. There was no fire escape. Many of the guests were on the roof, trying to be rescued by the firefighters, who were on the scene very quickly, but unable to go in to find survivors because it was so fierce.
So police forensics sifting through the rubble at the moment to try and find out exactly what happened and why this fire spread so quickly.
Now, it is thought that half the people inside were tourists. Half were social welfare cases, which were put there by the state until they could find permanent housing. A lot of nationalities among the injured. We have Americans. We have Canadians, French, Ukraine, Senegalese and Tunisian and also some from the Ivory Coast. They're not making any comment as yet of the nationalities of the dead -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right. Paula Hancocks, we'll follow up on the story with you. Thank you so much.
A California boy who allegedly called another boy with a baseball bat is due to appear today in juvenile court. The victim is 15-year- old Jeremy Rourke, struck twice allegedly in a snack bar line after a Pony League game that the suspect's team had lost.
It happened Tuesday in Palmdale. That's just northeast of Los Angeles. And the community is still in shock. The winning team's coach says the 13-year-old suspect is a good kid who made a bad decision. He is being charged as a juvenile with murder.
Well, a close call in the big leagues, but what could have been a Fenway free-for-all ended up just a single shove. Here's the video right here. What do you think happened?
More hard feelings in the age-old feud between the Boston Red Sox and New York Yankees. This is Gary Sheffield responding to a Bosox fan's attempt to snatch up a ball, or maybe to mess with Sheffield, try and mess up the play there in last night's game.
The Yankee says he almost snapped but he restrained himself when he thought about the consequences. Good decision, Gary. It didn't hurt that security was on the scene within seconds. That fan was thrown out. The game went on, Boston won, 5-3.
O'BRIEN: Could have turned into an Auburn Hills situation.
Live pictures now high above the Pacific Ocean. Star Gazer is in the sky, Pegasus holding on in the belly. Dart will fly in just about 14 minutes from now. And it's all kind of like HAL.
Do you get any of this? We're talking space, of course.
Dart, it's a little probe that will be carried to space aboard that Pegasus rocket. As you see the control room there now, some of NASA's finest there, getting ready to push the button to send Pegasus into space.
Let me show you what will happen as it occurs, some animation. Down it will drop from the L-10/11 from orbital science, the Pegasus rocket, give it about a 12-minute ride into space.
Dart, with a brain of its own, will find a retired military communications satellite. Using lasers, all by itself, no human intervention, will ask it to open the pod bay doors and stuff and will actually dock with this retired communications satellite if all goes well.
All this will happen in about 21 hours time, and then this $120 million mission will be over. And hopefully, if all goes well, NASA will have learned a little something about what it might take to send spacecraft back to the moon and maybe on to Mars.
All right. The tax man comes today. Pay for all this fun up in space. Are deadbeats forcing to you pay more than your share, though? We're crunching the numbers ahead on LIVE FROM.
Also ahead, will we go through this again? Hurricane experts are huddling, making their predictions for the next season. It's not a pretty picture, folks. We're live from the Bahamas. Jacqui Jeras on an amazing weather junket. I mean an important fact-finding mission in the Bahamas. Good job, Jacqui. We'll check in with you in just a moment. There on the beach, working hard.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) O'BRIEN: Back-to-back hurricanes slammed Florida last year, just like my shin got slammed on this stand right here. What's -- what's in store for 2005, you may ask? CNN meteorologist Jacqui Jeras drew the long straw. She's in the Bahamas, where experts are trying to gauge upcoming hurricane season prognostication, in between visits to the pool there on Paradise Island.
I know you're working hard. I am making fun of you a little bit...
JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: I know.
O'BRIEN: ... just because this is, you know, not a bad location, at least, in which to be talking about serious matters.
But Bill Gray's forecast, which came out, and you've discussed a little bit, is quite grim, isn't it? And you've got to tell people how significant his forecasts are.
JERAS: Well, I think it's very significant. And Miles, we've actually been talking for awhile that we're expecting an upward trend over the next couple of years, that it's going to continue to be very active.
But for the first time today what I heard is he was talking about these cycles that we get every 20, 30, 40 years, where we see upward trends and then quiet trends. And he thinks that we're in the middle of a 20-year cycle that began back in 1995.
So basically what he's saying is expect more frequent, more intense hurricanes, not just for the next year, not just for the next two years but for the next 15 years. So that would take us right up to 2020. So that's pretty significant. This is a long time that we're going to have to go through another year, another 15 years like last year.
His forecast actually came out on April 1. And he is expecting to see 13 named storms, seven of which become hurricanes and three of those becoming major hurricanes.
How does that compare to normal? On an average season we see about 10 named storms and about six of those become hurricanes, three of which become major hurricanes.
He still has a little bit of uncertainty in his forecast, depending on what happens with El Nino. We've been seeing some signs that maybe a little bit of a mild, moderate El Nino could be developing. So we're going to have to wait to see what happens with that.
Of course, an El Nino year, as we get La Nina in the Atlantic, which keeps activity down a little bit. So that would actually help us out.
The other significant thing that he said, in addition to all of these named storms, he says there's a 75 percent chance that a major hurricane will sit somewhere along the U.S. coastline, into the Gulf Coast or into the Atlantic states. So certainly the news is grim, not looking good for the future.
NOAA also agrees that things are going to be above normal this season. However, they have not released their official numbers. Max Mayfield, the director of the National Hurricane Center, is here. He's been talking about it. They're going to be releasing that May 15, which is when National Hurricane Awareness Week is. So that will be revealed the upcoming month.
There also have been a lot of other interesting things that have been mentioned here, Miles, too, by the way. We've been talking a lot on panel discussions. And CNN's own John Zarrella was in one of the panel displays yesterday, talking about the media's role and the responsibility we have to relay correct information to the viewer and let them perceive it the right way.
There's been a lot of controversy about what happened with Charley last year. Everybody was thinking -- the public perceived it was going to be Tampa, Tampa, Tampa. And then it was a little bit of a surprise for some people when Punta Gorda is the place that got hit.
O'BRIEN: Yes, we did, indeed, focus a little bit too much on Tampa, probably assumed that the predictions were a little too dead- on. And that's worth pointing out here.
Bill Gray's predictions historically have been very accurate, but nevertheless, this kind of thing is very difficult to guess and to figure out. And even though he does use a very complicated arithmetic formula, we really don't know how many of these storms are really going to make landfall and where they're going to hit. And that's the key issue, isn't it?
JERAS: Right. Absolutely. It's the key issue. And not only where it hits but also how strong it's going to be. You know, you get a tropical storm, you get a category one. Obviously, not nearly as catastrophic as what we saw with Francis and with Jeanne.
And of course, the size of the storm, too. Just imagine how catastrophic Charley would have been had it been a much broader scaled storm. Instead, it was a smaller storm, very tightly packed, but it wasn't as big, which, really, I think, saved a lot of lives.
O'BRIEN: All right. And we should ask -- if I could ask your photographer to pan down. I want to tell our viewers that Jacqui's been involved in a Bahamian sand temperature project. And she's getting firsthand data right now on the temperature of the sands there at Paradise Island for a scientific paper that she's working on. Right? And that's why you have to be on the beach...
JERAS: Yes, I am.
O'BRIEN: ... in bare feet doing this report for us, right?
JERAS: I'm guessing about 75 degrees.
O'BRIEN: Excellent.
JERAS: It feels very nice and comfortable out here, but the wind is blowing. If it makes you feel any better being back there in the studio, yesterday, you know, that cold front that moved through there in Atlanta and brought your temperatures way down, that came through here yesterday.
O'BRIEN: All right.
JERAS: We actually had rain and clouds.
O'BRIEN: All right.
JERAS: So it hasn't all been fun in the sun.
O'BRIEN: Hoist an umbrella drink for me. Jacqui Jeras there in the Bahamas, we appreciate it -- Kyra.
JERAS: All right, Miles.
PHILLIPS: Jealousy. Miles, did you get your taxes done?
O'BRIEN: No.
PHILLIPS: You didn't?
O'BRIEN: No.
PHILLIPS: So you're filing an extension?
O'BRIEN: I already did. I told you I did that back in January. I knew.
PHILLIPS: Yes, you knew.
O'BRIEN: I knew. No, it's going to be at least August, maybe -- sometimes I end up in October. Frequently that happens to me.
PHILLIPS: Why does that not surprise me?
O'BRIEN: Yes.
PHILLIPS: All right, taxpayers, tax cheats, maybe those that just never get the taxes done like Miles, we're going to talk about who actually ends up footing the bill. Straight ahead.
Kind of love the music. Look at that. I'm just going to be quiet so you can listen.
(MUSIC: "Taxman" by the Beatles)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Well, it's now or never for millions of Americans scrambling to finish their income tax returns. You have until midnight to pay or ask to delay. And for some, there's a third option. Ignore.
CNN's Mary Snow looks at taxpayers, tax cheats and who really foots the bill.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At New York's H&R Block, these Americans are about to do what many do not, pay their taxes.
JAN STROM, FLORIDA TAXPAYER: I am afraid of getting audited because it's always a hassle to find all the records, and you want to do it absolutely perfectly. It's scary.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not afraid of getting audited because I haven't done anything bad.
SNOW: In fact, the IRS says 15 percent of all taxes go unpaid, as much as $353 billion. Only $55 billion of that, the IRS says, will be recovered. So who's making up for that shortfall?
SHELDON COHEN, FORMER IRS COMMISSION: Us wage earners, the people who work for a living and who have -- are compliant. The people who comply with the law are being stolen from.
SNOW: Stolen to the tune of $2,000 annually per taxpayer, according to the Treasury Department. So who are these people adding to your tax bill?
MAX SAWICKY, ECONOMIC POLICY INSTITUTE: It's unincorporated business firms. It's proprietors. It's the self-employed. It's corporations and it's very wealthy people who abuse the law with fancy tax shelters.
SNOW: Economist Sawicky says there's also $30 billion of missing taxes that are owed by people who don't bother to file any income tax returns. Sawicky says part of the blame belongs to the IRS, which he says, doesn't have the manpower it needs to do the job.
SAWICKY: The IRS has less resources to deal with a bigger economy today than it had 10 years ago. It -- of course, we have more filers all the time. We have a bigger economy, more income. We have more complicated financial transactions.
COHEN: The present commissioner has made it an emphasis to-- to increase the number of audits. But it's coming back too slowly to really be effective.
SNOW: Mary Snow, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: All right. Time to bring in the Dolans. But before we do that, let's go back to about 30,000 feet or so above the Pacific, actually closer to 40,000 right now. There's the Lockheed 10/11 run by Orbital Sciences, contracted by NASA. Look at the belly. You can see it almost looks like it has a bomb there. It's not a bomb. That's the Pegasus rocket which delivers small payloads to lower orbits, which is seen roughly 250 miles above us. At the tip of that is the Dart spacecraft, going to launch. And it's going...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Copy, check 173.
O'BRIEN: They're still going through some preliminary stuff. Let's go to the Dolans, and if it gets close, we'll drop in and the Dolans will help us launch Dart. What do you think?
KEN DOLAN, CO-HOST, "DOLANS UNSCRIPTED": I swear to heavens we can't get on the air on this network. What's going on here?
O'BRIEN: Back -- let's go back to the Pacific, shall we? Hey, Dolans.
K. DOLAN: Please, launch this rocket.
DARIA DOLAN, CO-HOST, "DOLANS UNSCRIPTED": Hi, Miles.
O'BRIEN: You know what? This is a good day to talk about a $120 million space mission to figure out if spacecraft can dock by themselves, because today is the day we pay for this.
K. DOLAN: Yes, yes. Yes, Miles, your tax dollars at work. Even the IRS doesn't understand the tax code. We waste $3 billion...
O'BRIEN: You've got to be a rocket scientist, don't you?
K. DOLAN: Don't be funnier in than me, Miles.
O'BRIEN: I'm sorry. I do the straight lines.
K. DOLAN: We're wasting -- it takes the average tax preparer 10 hours, us, 10 hours to put it together. We're wasting three billion hours a year doing it. And 49 percent of Americans say they'd rather go to the dentist than do their taxes.
Thank you very much, good-bye, Miles.
O'BRIEN: That's all you need to say, right?
D. DOLAN: No. Well, no.
O'BRIEN: You've got more. I know you've got more, Daria. Talk to me.
D. DOLAN: There is a lot more to say.
O'BRIEN: Yes.
D. DOLAN: And in fact, we had a discussion with Paul O'Neill, the former treasury -- treasury secretary. And I want you to take a listen to something he had to say on the topic. O'BRIEN: Let's do that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL O'NEILL, FORMER TREASURY SECRETARY: We should start with a blank piece of paper, and we should say there will be no credits and there will be no deductions. We're going to use the tax system to collect revenues that are necessary to do the business of the people.
But I'm very much in favor of simplification that tries to get the tax code from 10,000 pages to 10 pages.
D. DOLAN: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
K. DOLAN: Oh, man, give me a break. Come on.
O'BRIEN: Give me a break. That's -- that's not going to happen. That's not going to happen.
K. DOLAN: It's not going to happen, Miles.
D. DOLAN: Well, but you know, interestingly enough, there's an awful lot of people handicapping the fact that the president has said along with Social Security, tax reform is one of his legacy issues. And a lot of people are saying it's not going to happen.
But there's a great argument being made by some people who I think probably would have the solution inasmuch as allow taxpayers to opt with sticking with the old tax system or opting to pay a 19 percent flat tax, no muss, no fuss and let us choose.
K. DOLAN: Exactly right.
D. DOLAN: We are government by the people. And, of course, it's run by the money of the people.
O'BRIEN: Well, here's the thing, though. The installed base of people who make money off of this 10,000 page tax code...
K. DOLAN: Yes.
O'BRIEN: And the lobbying effort that would go along with that, everything from tax attorneys to CPAs to H&R Block, that's why it won't change. I hate to be a pessimist, but it it's just not going to happen.
D. DOLAN: Well, which is why overall change won't happen. I totally agree with you, Miles. I'll let you in, in a second. Don't be a smart aleck.
O'BRIEN: I think it's Ken...
D. DOLAN: I waited three weeks to get here.
O'BRIEN: And I've got just the way to quiet him. We're now 15 seconds to launch of the Pegasus rocket.
K. DOLAN: Oh!
O'BRIEN: Stay with us. Stay with us, guys. Can you see this picture right now? Can you see that? Let's watch it. Let's listen.
D. DOLAN: Oh, wow.
K. DOLAN: Look at that.
D. DOLAN: Look at that.
O'BRIEN: It goes down. Off goes the rocket.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The launch of the -- the launch of the Pegasus rocket with Dart pursuing the limits of automated technology for rendezvous in space.
O'BRIEN: You know what would be -- what would be great rocket fuel, guys, if they could jam up the 10,000 page tax code, put it in a ball and light that.
D. DOLAN: Send it into orbit.
O'BRIEN: Send it to orbit.
K. DOLAN: Miles, don't forget that this is a family program, when you talk like that.
O'BRIEN: Yes, I know. I know.
K. DOLAN: By the way -- by the way, just quickly, Paul O'Neill will be our guest. And we're going to talk about health care and tax reform and Social Security when he joins us on satellite.
O'BRIEN: Absolutely. That's tomorrow, Saturday, on "THE DOLANS UNSCRIPTED."
K. DOLAN: Yes.
O'BRIEN: And there we go to another shot. On its way it goes. Dart is on its way to a rendezvous with a retired military communications satellite. Everything will be done without human intervention, guys. Think of this. The astronaut corps must hate this mission because of the whole notion that you could have an orbiting HAL at the controls. "Open the pod bay doors, please." You know, that kind of stuff.
K. DOLAN: Well, I'll tell you, Miles. I know you've got enormous scientific information, and we really love your stuff when you cover this stuff. But I say forget the missiles and let's feed the people in food lines in America and forget the $250 million.
O'BRIEN: Now, now, now, now. Let me just tell you this, guys. First of all, if it really were true that if you didn't pay for this, that would feed every hungry person, I'd go along with it, but it doesn't go that way. All right?
K. DOLAN: All right.
O'BRIEN: But that's for another day.
K. DOLAN: All right.
O'BRIEN: Let's talk about something important.
K. DOLAN: What?
O'BRIEN: The Red Sox.
K. DOLAN: Thank you very much.
D. DOLAN: Oh, boy.
O'BRIEN: There are many people -- there are many people who say this fan might have gone over the line. We have -- we have dissected this tape. Let's roll the tape. We think -- can you take a shot of me, Scotty, real quick, before we roll the tape? I guess not. Here we go.
We think he was doing this, you know, the keep running sign. All right. Now, let's watch it.
K. DOLAN: OK, all right.
O'BRIEN: And see what you think. A lot of people think he might have taken a swipe at Sheffield. What do you guys think?
K. DOLAN: There's the hit.
O'BRIEN: Yes. There's the hit. Sheffield into the right corner. There's no foul territory there, of course. That's a live ball, as you know. And there you go.
K. DOLAN: Whoa!
O'BRIEN: Whoa, now what happened?
D. DOLAN: Who threw the first punch?
O'BRIEN: Well...
K. DOLAN: Look at the guy.
D. DOLAN: Can you tell me you were going to the movies last night.
K. DOLAN: No way. That guy is a Red Sox fan. I'm from Boston. He should be banned from Fenway Park forever. He took a shot at Gary Sheffield who I could care less about because I'm not a Yankee fan.
O'BRIEN: Yes.
K. DOLAN: And that's not right, Miles.
O'BRIEN: OK. What do you think, Daria?
D. DOLAN: I totally concur. If we don't start cracking down on unruly fans, it's going to exacerbate the problem and more people are thinking that they can get away with this.
O'BRIEN: The problem is most Red Sox fans don't know what exacerbate means.
D. DOLAN: Oh!
K. DOLAN: Easy, Miles.
O'BRIEN: I'm a Red Sox fan. Don't worry.
K. DOLAN: Oh, you are.
O'BRIEN: That's all right.
K. DOLAN: I'll tell you, we're not a very good example to our kids, Miles.
O'BRIEN: Yes.
K. DOLAN: And I think that's a perfect example. My daddy swung at Gary Sheffield. If it comes to me, I'll swing at the next guy. It's foolish.
O'BRIEN: Well, you do have a point there. All right, guys. "DOLANS UNSCRIPTED," that's tomorrow, Saturday. What time is it?
K. DOLAN: Ten o'clock in the morning.
D. DOLAN: Ten a.m.
O'BRIEN: It's in my TiVo so I never know when it actually airs.
K. DOLAN: We love you, Miles.
O'BRIEN: Ten a.m. Eastern. You guys are great.
D. DOLAN: Thanks.
O'BRIEN: Paul O'Neill. Maybe they'll talk about the Red Sox. And they'll do a replay of the Dart launch, in case you wanted to see that again. Right? Yes, sure.
K. DOLAN: Bye, Miles. We love you.
O'BRIEN: Always a pleasure -- Kyra.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS (voice-over): Next on LIVE FROM...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Man down, man down.
PHILLIPS: Robots to the rescue on the battlefield.
END
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