Return to Transcripts main page

Live From...

Women in the Catholic Church

Aired April 20, 2005 - 13:39   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: The Roman Catholic Church is hailing the election of Pope Benedict XVI, but there are some concerns from within the church itself. One being the pope's view on the role of women in the church.
CNN's Gary Tuchman explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The body of Christ.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Communion at a Catholic Church.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The body of Christ.

TUCHMAN: And there is not a priest in sight, just this nun because of the priest shortage that the main spiritual leader at the Blessed Sacrament Catholic Church in Mammoth, Arizona.

SISTER MARIA CANEZ, BLESSED SACRAMENT CHURCH: When I was a little girl I wanted to be a priest, yes. And then I found out I couldn't be a priest, so then I became a religious, and that was fine. But then I became an administrator of a church, and I wanted to be a priest again.

Our father, who art in heaven.

TUCHMAN: Sister Maria Canez is the pastoral administrator at Blessed Sacrament. She leads weekday services but watches visiting priests come in on most Sunday to celebrate the Sacramental Masses, which only they can do. Across the country there are now many women who run parishes, and often preach there because of the priest shortage. Here in the Diocese of Tucson there are three women. Sister Carole Ruland is far more traditional than Sister Maria.

SISTER CAROLE RULAND, SANTA CATALINA CATHOLIC CHURCH: I've been asked by God just to serve the people of this parish. And my concern is to be faithful in doing that. And that's what God called me to do, not to try to change the church in -- in other areas.

TUCHMAN: The bishop of the diocese of Tucson who Sister Maria says, she respects a great deal, does look at things differently.

BISHOP GERALD KICANAS, DIOCESE OF TUCSON, ARIZONA: Women have been entrusted with many gifts. And in some ways some women, religious women or woman, (INAUDIBLE) they leaders in the church, have gifts far more important and powerful than a particular priest may have.

TUCHMAN: But at Blessed Sacrament some parishioners wish the new pope would allow women to become priests.

JOSIE MIRANDA, PARISHIONER: I feel we've been blessed with sister's presence here.

TUCHMAN (on camera): Among the Catholic faithful, there is much anticipation about what changes the new pope may or may not make. Suffice it to say there is one particular nun in the Arizona desert who won't be content with the status quo.

Do you think women are considered second class citizens in the Catholic church?

CANEZ: Yes, I think so.

TUCHMAN: How come?

CANEZ: Well, because we really don't have a voice. And one of the things that I pray for and I hope for, for the future, is that we will have a voice. That we will be listened to.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): Gary Tuchman, CNN, Mammoth, Arizona.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Well, most observers would indeed be shocked if this new pope moved to allow the ordination of women as priests. Cardinal Ratzinger earned the nickname "Cardinal No" for his hard-lined stance against women priests and other ideas floated by more liberal Catholics. He reinforced his traditional viewpoint on Monday at a Mass before the papal conclave.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARDINAL JOSEPH RATZINGER (through translator): We are moving towards a dictatorship of relativism, which recognizes nothing as definitive and certain and has, as its highest goal, one's own ego and one's own desires.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: So where does the church go from here?

Sister Christine Schenk joins us from Cleveland. She heads up the FutureChurch and National Coalition, which advocates that the priesthood should be open to all baptized Catholics. Great to see you, Sister.

SISTER CHRISTINE SCHENK, FUTURECHURCH: Great to be here, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: And I want to talk more about what you are advocating, but let's begin with the dictatorship of relativism. How did you interpret that? SCHENK: Well, that's a very powerful statement and I don't really know how to interpret it without more of a context. If I had to guess, I would say that Pope Benedict now is not comfortable with a postmodern kind of understanding of reality, and I think with good reason. There are some big concerns.

On the other point of view of this, I like to think of it -- no one certainly in the progressive or moderate wing of the church is saying there aren't ultimate truths, there isn't ultimate truth. I think what we're saying is, as human beings, many times, we can only approach understanding of that ultimate truth, so it's a process.

It's like two people at the Grand Canyon, one in the canyon and one on the rim. The person on the rim will see a huge gorge. The person in the -- on the bottom will see a huge cliff. Both people see a part of the truth of the reality of the Grand Canyon, but neither sees it in its fullness. So if they can talk to each other about this beautiful reality of the Grand Canyon, both will have a greater appreciation of the magnificence of this creation of God.

And I think this is the moment that I'm hoping this new pope will introduce in the church, that those of us that have varying perspectives can reflect together in love about this huge and beautiful reality that is God and that is the church.

PHILLIPS: Let's talk about that beautiful reality, maybe in a different sense. He did go on in his homily last week, and said that being an adult means having a faith, which does not follow the ways of today's fashions or the latest novelties. When we start talking about women as priests, I don't think it would be fair to say that would be a wave or a novelty, but a reality, a very beautiful reality, that there are so many women involved in the church and maybe it's time that they take on a different role.

And when you think of the shortage in clergy, wouldn't it make sense to put women in that role, or will the church maybe have to be forced to do it because of the shortage, because of the crisis that has taken place within the church?

SCHENK: By all means -- and I would hate to have it be forced, because there will be so many Catholics that will be not ministered to and we will lose, frankly, if we do nothing about the priest shortage. We're hoping at the International Senate on the Eucharist next October that this pope will allow an open discussion of the pressing issues facing us because of the priest shortage, including ending mandatory celibacy and opening the deaconate as a next step towards women's full inclusion in ministry.

He does have a record, just a year ago, of speaking at Cardinal Kanig's (ph) funeral, of the need -- that, perhaps, he had gone too far in overcentralizing decision-making in the church. So we're hoping that this Eucharist senate will be a more open process than senates have been in the past. In the past, many bishops have opened the conversation about mandatory celibacy, and women's roles in the church, but their reports have not been included in the final document because of a lobby by curial cardinals. So I think -- my hope is that Pope Benedict will be true to his name and try to bridge this divide between the moderate, progressive people in the church and the ultraconservative segment, who see him as their hero.

PHILLIPS: That's interesting, because if you mention Pope Benedict XV and you look at how he truly tried to Christianize Europe -- he was known as the pope of peace, he did make some changes -- that is sort a glimmer of hope when you start thinking about modernization, yes?

SCHENK: Yes, I think it is and it's certainly the one that I'm hanging on to.

PHILLIPS: Well, let's make sure we mention the sex abuse scandal, too. We've talked about clergy to marry, the role of women. We can't disregard the sex abuse scandal.

SCHENK: We certainly can't.

PHILLIPS: And I want to know your feelings about that, how you think that he will address that.

SCHENK: Well, actually, I have more hope than I did originally. Certainly, it's well known that he blocked the investigation, the canonical investigation of Father Maciel, the founder of the Legionaries of Christ. Certainly when the scandal first broke in the United States, he was on record as saying, well, this is a media plot to get at the Catholic Church.

But there has been more recent actions on his part that don't -- you know, make it look like not such a grim picture in that regard. One, the canonical investigation of Father Maciel has reopened recently. But perhaps more importantly was a visit by members of the lay review board from the U.S. bishops who basically had to do an end run around the apostolic delegate.

They faxed then Cardinal Ratzinger, asking for a meeting. He agreed to meet with them, and not only did he meet with them, he had heads of Vatican offices with them -- with him, and it was a two-hour meeting. The review board members who were present, Justice Ann Burke (ph), Bob Bennett (ph) and others said that -- he listened to them. It was a very serious meeting and that they felt very heard.

Then there were actions after this meeting that made them feel that yes, this had made a difference, because suddenly, we started getting statements from John Paul II to the bishops that they're ad limita (ph), that they should be listening to the laity in their diocese. He...

PHILLIPS: Created the talk.

SCHENK: He quoted statements during Vatican II about lay participation in decision-making. So it could be -- I think he should meet with victims, just as Barbara Blaine and the SNAP people have done. That would certainly be a huge olive branch, given some of the polarizing and alienating statements he's made in the past.

PHILLIPS: Sister Christine Schenk. I encourage you to check out her Web site, learn more about the FutureChurch. It's always a pleasure to have you on, Sister. Thank you.

SCHENK: It's a pleasure, Kyra. Thank you.

PHILLIPS: You bet.

And we just got some new video in, too, we want to show you. All of us, the world was watching this chimney above the Sistine Chapel. Why? Because we were looking for the smoke, the white smoke. Told us, if, indeed, a new pope was elected. Now that chimney is coming down. The next time we'll be watching of course will be the next time a new pope is elected. Hopefully not for a while. We're going to enjoy the legacy.

Just ahead, more LIVE FROM, right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: An Amber Alert to tell you about right now out of Tompkinsville, Kentucky. According to this report, a teen has been kidnapped as she was waiting for a bus. This is all we know, that the Amber Alert was initiated by the Monroe County Sheriff's department. It reports a 16-year-old girl Tompkinsville girl has been kidnapped. The alert says the victim is white, 4'11, wears 85 pound. She was wearing a red sweater with green squares and blue jeans.

The sheriff's report also says she was abducted by five Hispanic males in a red minivan or SUV while waiting for a school bus this morning. Anyone with information is asked to call the Monroe County Sheriff's Department. Once again, a red minivan, five Hispanic males, possibly an SUV, kidnapping this young 16-year-old girl, according to this Amber Alert. We'll follow it.

If you have any information, please call Monroe County Sheriff's Department in Tompkinsville, Kentucky.

More LIVE FROM right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Coming up in the second hour of live from, we're going global for world reaction to the election of Pope Benedict XVI. How is the news of a new pope sitting in with more than a billion Catholics worldwide?

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: We're live from Africa to Asia, the Middle East, Latin America, the kind of thing CNN does best, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired April 20, 2005 - 13:39   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: The Roman Catholic Church is hailing the election of Pope Benedict XVI, but there are some concerns from within the church itself. One being the pope's view on the role of women in the church.
CNN's Gary Tuchman explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The body of Christ.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Communion at a Catholic Church.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The body of Christ.

TUCHMAN: And there is not a priest in sight, just this nun because of the priest shortage that the main spiritual leader at the Blessed Sacrament Catholic Church in Mammoth, Arizona.

SISTER MARIA CANEZ, BLESSED SACRAMENT CHURCH: When I was a little girl I wanted to be a priest, yes. And then I found out I couldn't be a priest, so then I became a religious, and that was fine. But then I became an administrator of a church, and I wanted to be a priest again.

Our father, who art in heaven.

TUCHMAN: Sister Maria Canez is the pastoral administrator at Blessed Sacrament. She leads weekday services but watches visiting priests come in on most Sunday to celebrate the Sacramental Masses, which only they can do. Across the country there are now many women who run parishes, and often preach there because of the priest shortage. Here in the Diocese of Tucson there are three women. Sister Carole Ruland is far more traditional than Sister Maria.

SISTER CAROLE RULAND, SANTA CATALINA CATHOLIC CHURCH: I've been asked by God just to serve the people of this parish. And my concern is to be faithful in doing that. And that's what God called me to do, not to try to change the church in -- in other areas.

TUCHMAN: The bishop of the diocese of Tucson who Sister Maria says, she respects a great deal, does look at things differently.

BISHOP GERALD KICANAS, DIOCESE OF TUCSON, ARIZONA: Women have been entrusted with many gifts. And in some ways some women, religious women or woman, (INAUDIBLE) they leaders in the church, have gifts far more important and powerful than a particular priest may have.

TUCHMAN: But at Blessed Sacrament some parishioners wish the new pope would allow women to become priests.

JOSIE MIRANDA, PARISHIONER: I feel we've been blessed with sister's presence here.

TUCHMAN (on camera): Among the Catholic faithful, there is much anticipation about what changes the new pope may or may not make. Suffice it to say there is one particular nun in the Arizona desert who won't be content with the status quo.

Do you think women are considered second class citizens in the Catholic church?

CANEZ: Yes, I think so.

TUCHMAN: How come?

CANEZ: Well, because we really don't have a voice. And one of the things that I pray for and I hope for, for the future, is that we will have a voice. That we will be listened to.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): Gary Tuchman, CNN, Mammoth, Arizona.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Well, most observers would indeed be shocked if this new pope moved to allow the ordination of women as priests. Cardinal Ratzinger earned the nickname "Cardinal No" for his hard-lined stance against women priests and other ideas floated by more liberal Catholics. He reinforced his traditional viewpoint on Monday at a Mass before the papal conclave.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARDINAL JOSEPH RATZINGER (through translator): We are moving towards a dictatorship of relativism, which recognizes nothing as definitive and certain and has, as its highest goal, one's own ego and one's own desires.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: So where does the church go from here?

Sister Christine Schenk joins us from Cleveland. She heads up the FutureChurch and National Coalition, which advocates that the priesthood should be open to all baptized Catholics. Great to see you, Sister.

SISTER CHRISTINE SCHENK, FUTURECHURCH: Great to be here, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: And I want to talk more about what you are advocating, but let's begin with the dictatorship of relativism. How did you interpret that? SCHENK: Well, that's a very powerful statement and I don't really know how to interpret it without more of a context. If I had to guess, I would say that Pope Benedict now is not comfortable with a postmodern kind of understanding of reality, and I think with good reason. There are some big concerns.

On the other point of view of this, I like to think of it -- no one certainly in the progressive or moderate wing of the church is saying there aren't ultimate truths, there isn't ultimate truth. I think what we're saying is, as human beings, many times, we can only approach understanding of that ultimate truth, so it's a process.

It's like two people at the Grand Canyon, one in the canyon and one on the rim. The person on the rim will see a huge gorge. The person in the -- on the bottom will see a huge cliff. Both people see a part of the truth of the reality of the Grand Canyon, but neither sees it in its fullness. So if they can talk to each other about this beautiful reality of the Grand Canyon, both will have a greater appreciation of the magnificence of this creation of God.

And I think this is the moment that I'm hoping this new pope will introduce in the church, that those of us that have varying perspectives can reflect together in love about this huge and beautiful reality that is God and that is the church.

PHILLIPS: Let's talk about that beautiful reality, maybe in a different sense. He did go on in his homily last week, and said that being an adult means having a faith, which does not follow the ways of today's fashions or the latest novelties. When we start talking about women as priests, I don't think it would be fair to say that would be a wave or a novelty, but a reality, a very beautiful reality, that there are so many women involved in the church and maybe it's time that they take on a different role.

And when you think of the shortage in clergy, wouldn't it make sense to put women in that role, or will the church maybe have to be forced to do it because of the shortage, because of the crisis that has taken place within the church?

SCHENK: By all means -- and I would hate to have it be forced, because there will be so many Catholics that will be not ministered to and we will lose, frankly, if we do nothing about the priest shortage. We're hoping at the International Senate on the Eucharist next October that this pope will allow an open discussion of the pressing issues facing us because of the priest shortage, including ending mandatory celibacy and opening the deaconate as a next step towards women's full inclusion in ministry.

He does have a record, just a year ago, of speaking at Cardinal Kanig's (ph) funeral, of the need -- that, perhaps, he had gone too far in overcentralizing decision-making in the church. So we're hoping that this Eucharist senate will be a more open process than senates have been in the past. In the past, many bishops have opened the conversation about mandatory celibacy, and women's roles in the church, but their reports have not been included in the final document because of a lobby by curial cardinals. So I think -- my hope is that Pope Benedict will be true to his name and try to bridge this divide between the moderate, progressive people in the church and the ultraconservative segment, who see him as their hero.

PHILLIPS: That's interesting, because if you mention Pope Benedict XV and you look at how he truly tried to Christianize Europe -- he was known as the pope of peace, he did make some changes -- that is sort a glimmer of hope when you start thinking about modernization, yes?

SCHENK: Yes, I think it is and it's certainly the one that I'm hanging on to.

PHILLIPS: Well, let's make sure we mention the sex abuse scandal, too. We've talked about clergy to marry, the role of women. We can't disregard the sex abuse scandal.

SCHENK: We certainly can't.

PHILLIPS: And I want to know your feelings about that, how you think that he will address that.

SCHENK: Well, actually, I have more hope than I did originally. Certainly, it's well known that he blocked the investigation, the canonical investigation of Father Maciel, the founder of the Legionaries of Christ. Certainly when the scandal first broke in the United States, he was on record as saying, well, this is a media plot to get at the Catholic Church.

But there has been more recent actions on his part that don't -- you know, make it look like not such a grim picture in that regard. One, the canonical investigation of Father Maciel has reopened recently. But perhaps more importantly was a visit by members of the lay review board from the U.S. bishops who basically had to do an end run around the apostolic delegate.

They faxed then Cardinal Ratzinger, asking for a meeting. He agreed to meet with them, and not only did he meet with them, he had heads of Vatican offices with them -- with him, and it was a two-hour meeting. The review board members who were present, Justice Ann Burke (ph), Bob Bennett (ph) and others said that -- he listened to them. It was a very serious meeting and that they felt very heard.

Then there were actions after this meeting that made them feel that yes, this had made a difference, because suddenly, we started getting statements from John Paul II to the bishops that they're ad limita (ph), that they should be listening to the laity in their diocese. He...

PHILLIPS: Created the talk.

SCHENK: He quoted statements during Vatican II about lay participation in decision-making. So it could be -- I think he should meet with victims, just as Barbara Blaine and the SNAP people have done. That would certainly be a huge olive branch, given some of the polarizing and alienating statements he's made in the past.

PHILLIPS: Sister Christine Schenk. I encourage you to check out her Web site, learn more about the FutureChurch. It's always a pleasure to have you on, Sister. Thank you.

SCHENK: It's a pleasure, Kyra. Thank you.

PHILLIPS: You bet.

And we just got some new video in, too, we want to show you. All of us, the world was watching this chimney above the Sistine Chapel. Why? Because we were looking for the smoke, the white smoke. Told us, if, indeed, a new pope was elected. Now that chimney is coming down. The next time we'll be watching of course will be the next time a new pope is elected. Hopefully not for a while. We're going to enjoy the legacy.

Just ahead, more LIVE FROM, right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: An Amber Alert to tell you about right now out of Tompkinsville, Kentucky. According to this report, a teen has been kidnapped as she was waiting for a bus. This is all we know, that the Amber Alert was initiated by the Monroe County Sheriff's department. It reports a 16-year-old girl Tompkinsville girl has been kidnapped. The alert says the victim is white, 4'11, wears 85 pound. She was wearing a red sweater with green squares and blue jeans.

The sheriff's report also says she was abducted by five Hispanic males in a red minivan or SUV while waiting for a school bus this morning. Anyone with information is asked to call the Monroe County Sheriff's Department. Once again, a red minivan, five Hispanic males, possibly an SUV, kidnapping this young 16-year-old girl, according to this Amber Alert. We'll follow it.

If you have any information, please call Monroe County Sheriff's Department in Tompkinsville, Kentucky.

More LIVE FROM right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Coming up in the second hour of live from, we're going global for world reaction to the election of Pope Benedict XVI. How is the news of a new pope sitting in with more than a billion Catholics worldwide?

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: We're live from Africa to Asia, the Middle East, Latin America, the kind of thing CNN does best, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com