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More than 70 Dead in Iraqi Mass Killings; Romans React to New Pope; Bush Signs New Bankruptcy Law; Tom DeLay Lashes Out at Supreme Court Justice

Aired April 20, 2005 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: First today, the chilling news from Iraq: scores of bodies found in the Tigris River apparently those of hostages and twenty Iraqi soldiers abducted by insurgents and killed at gunpoint.
CNN's Ryan Chilcote has the very latest from Baghdad.

RYAN CHILCOTE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Grim news in three different locations in Iraq today. We start just south of Baghdad. That's where, according to a startling announcement from the president of Iraq, Iraqi officials found the bodies of more than fifty Iraqis in the Tigris River.

JALAL TALABANI, IRAQI PRESIDENT: They were killed and they threw the body to the Tigris, and more than 50 bodies have been brought out from the Tigris, and we have the full name of those who were killed, and those criminals who committed these crimes. And Mr. Prime Minister Dr. Allawi is going to deal with it.

CHILCOTE: and in the northwest of the country in the city of Haditha, police officials telling CNN 20 Iraqis soldiers were shot to death by insurgents. The soldiers were on leave in civilian dress when they were abducted from a highway then taken to a stadium, a soccer stadium in Haditha by the insurgents. That's where their bodies were found up against a blood stained wall.

And lastly, in the Iraqi capital, three separate bombings leaving two Iraqi civilians dead, eight more wounded.

Ryan Chilcote, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MILES O'BRIEN, CO-HOST: Whether Catholic or not, people around the world are taking close measure of the new Holy Father. Pope Benedict XVI appeared several times today, even greeted some of the faithful on a short walk from his apartment. Perhaps more important the new pontiff offered up a glimpse of what he has in store.

CNN's Alessio Vinci, as always, with the story from the Vatican.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALESSIO VINCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Joseph Ratzinger celebrated his first mass as Pope Benedict XVI in the same chapel where cardinals elevated him to the papacy the evening before.

The pope's much anticipated homily was replaced by a long reflective meditation, followed by a pledge to try, and unite all Christians and continue an open and sincere dialogue with other religions. Then, he shared his inner most emotions.

POPE BENEDICT XVI, LEADER OF CATHOLIC CHURCH (through translator): There are two contrasting feelings in my soul. From one moment I feel an inadequacy and an inner disquiet, because of the responsibility entrusted in me from the apostle Peter toward the universal church. On the other hand, I feel a profound gratitude towards God.

VINCI: As pilgrims watched the mass broadcast live in St. Peter's Square, Rome was getting back to its usual bustling self, with Romans debating the election of yet another non-Italian pope.

"We were hoping he'd be Italian," he says, "because we grew up with Italian popes."

With a handful of Romans among the Italian cardinals in the conclave, some Romans say they hoped the pontiff would be a local.

"I am Roman, so of course I would have liked a Roman pope," she says.

But not all Italians agree.

"Any pope will do," says this policeman, "as long as he continues along John Paul II's path."

Just behind the Vatican at one of the new pope's favorite restaurants, owner Nicola Marcazani (ph) says nationality is irrelevant.

"It was very emotional for me to see him emerging from the balcony," he says, "especially having served him and exchanged a few words with him so often."

And does the new pope prefer German or Roman dishes? Marcazani (ph) says Ratzinger loves spaghetti with fresh tomatoes and fettuccine with shrimps and zucchini.

(on camera) Italians warmly embraced the late Pope John Paul II, the first non-Italian pontiff in 455 years, and likewise, they are expected to embrace this first German pope in almost a millennium.

(voice-over) While many Italians seem not to mind a foreign pope, some tourists think they should.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Makes it seem more close to home having someone from your own country.

VINCI (voice-over): And this morning Pope Benedict broke the seal on his new home, the papal apartment where he will move in after renovations. Alessio Vinci, CNN, at the Vatican.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: If the world expects Benedict XVI to speak softly and carry a big crucifix, it might be surprised. He does speak softly, but the former Cardinal Ratzinger, known as a hard nose enforcer of hard-line doctrine, is now a pope who sees unity as a duty and who calls himself a servant of the servants of God. The men who elected him say they don't expect a top down style of management.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARDINAL ROGER MAHONY, ARCHBISHOP OF LOS ANGELES: I think this pope wants to be well-informed. He wants to get our input. He asked in his address today, he asked for our council and our advice, and I think that that is real. And I think that he wants to hear from us, and he wants us to be pastors of our local churches, I think in a less centralized manner.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Now St. Benedict inspired an order of monks, the Benedictines, who kept literature alive in the Dark Ages. The last Pope Benedict tried, largely in vain, to be a mediator during World War I.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CO-HOST: Teachers are taking on the Bush administration. The National Education Association and several school districts filed suit in Detroit over the No Child Left Behind Act. The federal lawsuit accuses the Bush administration and Education Secretary Margaret Spellings, in particular, of failing to provide enough money to covert the costs of its mandates.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REG WEAVER, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL EDUCATION ASSOCIATION: We're saying that if you regulate, you have to pay. Parents' tax money is getting steered away from their children's classroom and going toward bureaucracy and boosting the profits of testing companies instead of their children's education. And that money would be much better spent on smaller class sizes, up to date classroom materials and attracting the very best teachers. And today, they're saying no more.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: The NEA represents nearly three million members, most of them teachers in public school systems. Several states have discussed opting out of that plan.

In a separate snub to the Bush education reform plan, the Utah legislature has passed a bill, giving state education standards priority over federal standards imposed by No Child Left Behind. Education Secretary Margaret Spellings warns that such a move could cost Utah $76 million in federal funding. Utah officials counter that, the federal requirements are unfunded anyway. O'BRIEN: President Bush makes it tougher to file for bankruptcy. Will the new law teach financial responsibility, or it will lead to more hardship for a lot of unfortunate folks? We examine both sides of this issue ahead on LIVE FROM.

Also, fighting for his political future, Tom DeLay seems to be lashing out at just about everyone, from members of the media to Democrats, even a Supreme Court justice. We'll talk to a former congressman about the majority leader's future.

And a curious sighting in Chicago. What is it, folks? Some believe it is the image of a religious icon. Stay with us.

ANNOUNCER: You're watching LIVE FROM on CNN, the most trusted name in news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(WEATHER REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: The days of declaring personal bankruptcy as a relatively easy way out of debt will soon be over. President Bush today, as expected, put a signature to the Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act. Long title but boiled down, it means the process to declare personal bankruptcy is about to get trickier.

We're going to open you up to a lot more scrutiny. Not everyone is on board, though. Consumer advocates say that an already fat industry is about to get fatter.

Dana Bash reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Stephanie Burkett had no health insurance for three days between jobs. In that 72-hour window, her son Christopher had a seizure.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Neurologist, another neurologist.

BASH: Some $30,000 in medical bills.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Twenty dollars a month to nine different places? On top of all my other bills, my car insurance, car payment.

BASH: She decided declaring bankruptcy, chapter 7, was her only choice.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If not, I wasn't going to be able to ever get that bill paid.

BASH: Americans are filing for bankruptcy in record numbers, cresting a million in 1996, reaching 1.6 million last year. The new law makes claiming bankruptcy harder, limiting judges' powers to forgive debt and imposing a means test on repayments. If you make more than the median income of your state, you pay back at least $6,000 over five years. Consumers must wait longer before filing again, and it makes child support a top priority for creditors' claims.

Boscov's, a family-run chain of 41 department stores, offers its own credit cards.

DEAN SHEAFFER, BOSCOV'S DEPARTMENT STORE: What we're trying to do is not take the sledgehammer. We're trying to take a scalpel and carve out this very small percentage of the people that are gaming the system.

BASH: Executive Dean Sheaffer says 50 percent of their losses come from people who declare bankruptcy and don't pay.

SHEAFFER: Somebody pays for that consumer, whether it's in the cost of higher credit, higher interest rates, whether it's in the cost of higher goods and services.

BASH: So customers here now see effects of bankruptcy reform? Pay lower prices on ties, purses belts, what about appliances, anything? Well, no. Boscov's will put its limited savings towards making their credit cards at 21 percent interest more available to its community.

Critics call this law a boon for the big credit card companies they say encourage people to spend beyond their means.

As for Stephanie, she falls below her state's median income and could file chapter 7 but would have to fill out more paperwork to prove it. She worries about others not abusing the system.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pretty much you're stuck with medical bills. I mean, there's no way you can get around them, and they get really expensive. And it's not something that you just decide to go out and get. It's not a choice.

BASH: Dana Bash, CNN, the White House.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: OK. We want to get this the next story without delay, which sounds good, actually, to House Democrats about now. Has the beleaguered majority leader gone too far? CNN contributor Bob Barr joining us to talk about it.

Bob, good to see you.

BOB BARR, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Thank you, as always.

O'BRIEN: First of all, let's -- the majority leader was on a radio program on another network, as we like to say, and he had some things to say about one of the Supreme Court justices. Let's listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. TOM DELAY (R-TX), MAJORITY LEADER: Justice Kennedy writing decisions based upon international law, not the constitution of the United States? That's just outrageous.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

DELAY: And not only that, but he said in session that he does his own research on the Internet? That is just incredibly outrageous.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: What a scandal! He uses the Internet. All right. Before we get to that kind of bizarre statement. Let's take the first part of that, where he says he consults with international law. First of all, is there some validity to that criticism?

BARR: There's a great deal of validity to that particular criticism. You want to have Supreme Court justices, above all others in our country, understand U.S. law, U.S. policies and the U.S. Constitution and have those things as the basis for their decisions, not what people in France or Italy or India think about something.

O'BRIEN: All right, but as a Supreme Court justice, you're entitled to consult anything you want, aren't you?

BARR: No, you're not entitled to consult anything you want as the basis for your opinion. You are sworn to uphold the U.S. Constitution, and your job requires that you look to U.S. law, U.S. policy and the U.S. Constitution as the basis for your decisions, not foreign law and foreign policy.

O'BRIEN: All right. This last thing about research and the Internet. What is he talking about there?

BARR: Well, I do know that a lot of folks in Washington don't know how to use the Internet. Maybe he was upset that Justice Kennedy does. I don't know. That was one of the criticisms of Newt. Newt would give these, you know, great technologically impressive speeches, and he had great difficulty using the Internet and using computers. That I'm not so sure about.

O'BRIEN: We'll put it in the bizarre category for now.

All right. Let's -- let's talk about how this plays politically, and Senator Schumer of New York had some interesting insights on all of this and how really on the other side of the aisle they're sort of cheering on statements just like this. Let's listen to Senator Schumer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: For the sake of America, I hope Tom DeLay stops this campaign. For the sake of Democrats, it's not so bad if he continues. Because the public, when they smell that whiff of abuse of power, when they smell that whiff of extremism, my way or no way, no matter what the process is, automatically goes to the other side.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: All right, he does have a point there. What we're talking about here is the American public and their sense. They have a -- you know, in their mind, they have a boundary. Has Tom DeLay crossed that boundary layer, and is he overreaching?

BARR: To be honest with you, I think Chuck Schumer has crossed that boundary. What business does a United States senator have to interject himself into the business of the other party's leadership in the other house?

O'BRIEN: He's got business. He's a Democrat. He can talk about that. Why not? Why not?

BARR: First of all...

O'BRIEN: As a Democrat, he's just talking about the political play there, and as a leading Democrat, he's got a right to talk about it.

BARR: Can you imagine if a Republican member of the House criticized the Democrat leadership of Schumer's party over in the other -- in the other body in the Senate?

O'BRIEN: Let's take that aside, though. Let's take that aside.

BARR: Aside from that -- aside from that...

O'BRIEN: Let's just talk about that Democratic point there, that perhaps the public -- there may be a huge backlash here for the Republicans as a result of all this?

BARR: The Democrats don't like Tom DeLay because he is very, very effective. He knows how to go toe to toe, mano-a-mano with them, and they don't appreciate that because he's effective. That's really at the core here.

It's all about power politics. It has nothing to do, really, with philosophy or the good of the country. It's about power politics.

O'BRIEN: All right. But how effective can he really be going forward as this whole imbroglio surrounds him?

BARR: If, in fact, and this is the job that Tom DeLay has right now, to get the party's, the Republican Party's agenda back on track. That's a tough job. They need to do it, and they need do it quickly if Tom DeLay is able to do that as the majority leader, working with the rest of the Republican leadership, then I think he'll be OK.

If they fail to do that and keep going off on these tangents or letting the party be drawn off on tangents, then it's going to be very difficult and he will pay a very personal price for that.

O'BRIEN: Let me ask you this, though, when you talk to fellow Republicans and these are comments that would not necessarily end up on the media, are they very concerned? Are they ready for him to bail?

BARR: No, absolutely not. Republican Party knows that Tom is a target for the Democrats. They also know that the main reason he's a target is because he's an effective leader. They'll stick with him.

O'BRIEN: There are some issues here. There are some questionable trips involved. There are potential cases of abuse of power here which are real. This is not just that he's a lightning rod.

BARR: But you have to remember that probably every one of those other Republicans and Democrats has taken questionable trips, too. They're only going to go so far with that.

O'BRIEN: Have you ever taken a trip like that? Is this common?

BARR: It's not common. The problem is, when you go on a trip and you look and have your staff, as they certainly ought to do, check out these groups and make sure that it is legitimate, you know, you have to rely at some point on the work of your staff.

Now, have there been members that have taken trips that appear on the surface to be A-OK and turn out later to not be? Absolutely. And that might be what Tom has fallen into here. If it is, he needs to make a clean break of it and make those -- make that clear, and I think he'll move on. But the Democrats are only going to push that issue so bar.

O'BRIEN: All right. Bob Barr, thanks for dropping by.

BARR: Sure.

O'BRIEN: Appreciate it -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right. Straight ahead we're not finished yet here on LIVE FROM. Up next, you've heard of the Hail Mary pass, right? Well, now it's the Hail Mary underpass.

And the lunch menu must really be tempting as elephants crash a restaurant.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Coming into CNN right now. We're being told a suicide bomb has exploded near Iraq, a political party. This is what we know. A suicide bomber in a car blew himself up near the political party headquarters of Iraq's caretaker prime minister, Ayad Allawi. Casualties, they do believe there are casualties. The blast hit a checkpoint near the party headquarters, a building that has been targeted previously.

Iraq has witnessed a resurgence of violence, as you know, after a relative period of calm since January 30 and the elections that took place then. We've already reported on almost 70 deaths today out of Baghdad of Iraqi National Guardsmen and other Iraqis.

Now getting word of another suicide bomb -- suicide bomber in a car blowing himself up near the party headquarters of prime minister -- caretaker prime minister, Ayad Allawi. We'll follow it, bring you more as we get it. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: You've got to like that.

O'BRIEN: You know, last time saw anything like that, they brought some free food into the newsroom. Pretty much it.

In this case, it must have been the peanut sauce that inspired this pair of pachyderms to break out of a zoo and into this restaurant in Seoul, South Korea. Pretty much took over the joint, as can you see. Bystanders stood by slack jawed.

Actually, a half dozen elephants went on the lam. At last report five are herded back and in the zoo. A sixth was at the police station. No word if he's squealed or if he has remained tight- trunked.

PHILLIPS: All right. One pretty wild story to another. Some in Chicago are calling it a miracle. And now crowds are flocking to a freeway underpass. Miles thinks it's water that sort of dripped off the side.

But anyway, judge -- judge for yourself, I guess, whether this stain on a concrete wall is really the image of the Virgin Mary. Some onlookers have brought flowers and candles. A lot of people have knelt in prayer. The Illinois Department of Transportation says the stain on the concrete wall probably resulted from salt runoff. The DOT plans to just leave it there.

O'BRIEN: All right, and a shrine is born. Another destination in the windy city.

PHILLIPS: Wraps up our holy half hour.

O'BRIEN: Holy cow, it's all over.

JUDY WOODRUFF, HOST, "INSIDE POLITICS": No prompter.

O'BRIEN: And here's Judy Woodruff with a preview of what is coming up on "INSIDE POLITICS."

Hello, Judy.

WOODRUFF: Hi there. We have a terrific show today. Arnold Schwarzenegger, the governor of California with some comments that explaining the battles he's been having with the state legislature and a lot of other Californians. We'll talk to him. We'll also talk to the chairman of the Republican National Committee, Ken Mehlman, about John Bolton, the man the president wants to be the ambassador to the United Nations.

Those stories and more coming up, "INSIDE POLITICS."

END

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Aired April 20, 2005 - 15:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: First today, the chilling news from Iraq: scores of bodies found in the Tigris River apparently those of hostages and twenty Iraqi soldiers abducted by insurgents and killed at gunpoint.
CNN's Ryan Chilcote has the very latest from Baghdad.

RYAN CHILCOTE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Grim news in three different locations in Iraq today. We start just south of Baghdad. That's where, according to a startling announcement from the president of Iraq, Iraqi officials found the bodies of more than fifty Iraqis in the Tigris River.

JALAL TALABANI, IRAQI PRESIDENT: They were killed and they threw the body to the Tigris, and more than 50 bodies have been brought out from the Tigris, and we have the full name of those who were killed, and those criminals who committed these crimes. And Mr. Prime Minister Dr. Allawi is going to deal with it.

CHILCOTE: and in the northwest of the country in the city of Haditha, police officials telling CNN 20 Iraqis soldiers were shot to death by insurgents. The soldiers were on leave in civilian dress when they were abducted from a highway then taken to a stadium, a soccer stadium in Haditha by the insurgents. That's where their bodies were found up against a blood stained wall.

And lastly, in the Iraqi capital, three separate bombings leaving two Iraqi civilians dead, eight more wounded.

Ryan Chilcote, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MILES O'BRIEN, CO-HOST: Whether Catholic or not, people around the world are taking close measure of the new Holy Father. Pope Benedict XVI appeared several times today, even greeted some of the faithful on a short walk from his apartment. Perhaps more important the new pontiff offered up a glimpse of what he has in store.

CNN's Alessio Vinci, as always, with the story from the Vatican.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALESSIO VINCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Joseph Ratzinger celebrated his first mass as Pope Benedict XVI in the same chapel where cardinals elevated him to the papacy the evening before.

The pope's much anticipated homily was replaced by a long reflective meditation, followed by a pledge to try, and unite all Christians and continue an open and sincere dialogue with other religions. Then, he shared his inner most emotions.

POPE BENEDICT XVI, LEADER OF CATHOLIC CHURCH (through translator): There are two contrasting feelings in my soul. From one moment I feel an inadequacy and an inner disquiet, because of the responsibility entrusted in me from the apostle Peter toward the universal church. On the other hand, I feel a profound gratitude towards God.

VINCI: As pilgrims watched the mass broadcast live in St. Peter's Square, Rome was getting back to its usual bustling self, with Romans debating the election of yet another non-Italian pope.

"We were hoping he'd be Italian," he says, "because we grew up with Italian popes."

With a handful of Romans among the Italian cardinals in the conclave, some Romans say they hoped the pontiff would be a local.

"I am Roman, so of course I would have liked a Roman pope," she says.

But not all Italians agree.

"Any pope will do," says this policeman, "as long as he continues along John Paul II's path."

Just behind the Vatican at one of the new pope's favorite restaurants, owner Nicola Marcazani (ph) says nationality is irrelevant.

"It was very emotional for me to see him emerging from the balcony," he says, "especially having served him and exchanged a few words with him so often."

And does the new pope prefer German or Roman dishes? Marcazani (ph) says Ratzinger loves spaghetti with fresh tomatoes and fettuccine with shrimps and zucchini.

(on camera) Italians warmly embraced the late Pope John Paul II, the first non-Italian pontiff in 455 years, and likewise, they are expected to embrace this first German pope in almost a millennium.

(voice-over) While many Italians seem not to mind a foreign pope, some tourists think they should.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Makes it seem more close to home having someone from your own country.

VINCI (voice-over): And this morning Pope Benedict broke the seal on his new home, the papal apartment where he will move in after renovations. Alessio Vinci, CNN, at the Vatican.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: If the world expects Benedict XVI to speak softly and carry a big crucifix, it might be surprised. He does speak softly, but the former Cardinal Ratzinger, known as a hard nose enforcer of hard-line doctrine, is now a pope who sees unity as a duty and who calls himself a servant of the servants of God. The men who elected him say they don't expect a top down style of management.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARDINAL ROGER MAHONY, ARCHBISHOP OF LOS ANGELES: I think this pope wants to be well-informed. He wants to get our input. He asked in his address today, he asked for our council and our advice, and I think that that is real. And I think that he wants to hear from us, and he wants us to be pastors of our local churches, I think in a less centralized manner.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Now St. Benedict inspired an order of monks, the Benedictines, who kept literature alive in the Dark Ages. The last Pope Benedict tried, largely in vain, to be a mediator during World War I.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CO-HOST: Teachers are taking on the Bush administration. The National Education Association and several school districts filed suit in Detroit over the No Child Left Behind Act. The federal lawsuit accuses the Bush administration and Education Secretary Margaret Spellings, in particular, of failing to provide enough money to covert the costs of its mandates.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REG WEAVER, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL EDUCATION ASSOCIATION: We're saying that if you regulate, you have to pay. Parents' tax money is getting steered away from their children's classroom and going toward bureaucracy and boosting the profits of testing companies instead of their children's education. And that money would be much better spent on smaller class sizes, up to date classroom materials and attracting the very best teachers. And today, they're saying no more.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: The NEA represents nearly three million members, most of them teachers in public school systems. Several states have discussed opting out of that plan.

In a separate snub to the Bush education reform plan, the Utah legislature has passed a bill, giving state education standards priority over federal standards imposed by No Child Left Behind. Education Secretary Margaret Spellings warns that such a move could cost Utah $76 million in federal funding. Utah officials counter that, the federal requirements are unfunded anyway. O'BRIEN: President Bush makes it tougher to file for bankruptcy. Will the new law teach financial responsibility, or it will lead to more hardship for a lot of unfortunate folks? We examine both sides of this issue ahead on LIVE FROM.

Also, fighting for his political future, Tom DeLay seems to be lashing out at just about everyone, from members of the media to Democrats, even a Supreme Court justice. We'll talk to a former congressman about the majority leader's future.

And a curious sighting in Chicago. What is it, folks? Some believe it is the image of a religious icon. Stay with us.

ANNOUNCER: You're watching LIVE FROM on CNN, the most trusted name in news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(WEATHER REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: The days of declaring personal bankruptcy as a relatively easy way out of debt will soon be over. President Bush today, as expected, put a signature to the Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act. Long title but boiled down, it means the process to declare personal bankruptcy is about to get trickier.

We're going to open you up to a lot more scrutiny. Not everyone is on board, though. Consumer advocates say that an already fat industry is about to get fatter.

Dana Bash reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Stephanie Burkett had no health insurance for three days between jobs. In that 72-hour window, her son Christopher had a seizure.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Neurologist, another neurologist.

BASH: Some $30,000 in medical bills.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Twenty dollars a month to nine different places? On top of all my other bills, my car insurance, car payment.

BASH: She decided declaring bankruptcy, chapter 7, was her only choice.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If not, I wasn't going to be able to ever get that bill paid.

BASH: Americans are filing for bankruptcy in record numbers, cresting a million in 1996, reaching 1.6 million last year. The new law makes claiming bankruptcy harder, limiting judges' powers to forgive debt and imposing a means test on repayments. If you make more than the median income of your state, you pay back at least $6,000 over five years. Consumers must wait longer before filing again, and it makes child support a top priority for creditors' claims.

Boscov's, a family-run chain of 41 department stores, offers its own credit cards.

DEAN SHEAFFER, BOSCOV'S DEPARTMENT STORE: What we're trying to do is not take the sledgehammer. We're trying to take a scalpel and carve out this very small percentage of the people that are gaming the system.

BASH: Executive Dean Sheaffer says 50 percent of their losses come from people who declare bankruptcy and don't pay.

SHEAFFER: Somebody pays for that consumer, whether it's in the cost of higher credit, higher interest rates, whether it's in the cost of higher goods and services.

BASH: So customers here now see effects of bankruptcy reform? Pay lower prices on ties, purses belts, what about appliances, anything? Well, no. Boscov's will put its limited savings towards making their credit cards at 21 percent interest more available to its community.

Critics call this law a boon for the big credit card companies they say encourage people to spend beyond their means.

As for Stephanie, she falls below her state's median income and could file chapter 7 but would have to fill out more paperwork to prove it. She worries about others not abusing the system.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pretty much you're stuck with medical bills. I mean, there's no way you can get around them, and they get really expensive. And it's not something that you just decide to go out and get. It's not a choice.

BASH: Dana Bash, CNN, the White House.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: OK. We want to get this the next story without delay, which sounds good, actually, to House Democrats about now. Has the beleaguered majority leader gone too far? CNN contributor Bob Barr joining us to talk about it.

Bob, good to see you.

BOB BARR, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Thank you, as always.

O'BRIEN: First of all, let's -- the majority leader was on a radio program on another network, as we like to say, and he had some things to say about one of the Supreme Court justices. Let's listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. TOM DELAY (R-TX), MAJORITY LEADER: Justice Kennedy writing decisions based upon international law, not the constitution of the United States? That's just outrageous.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

DELAY: And not only that, but he said in session that he does his own research on the Internet? That is just incredibly outrageous.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: What a scandal! He uses the Internet. All right. Before we get to that kind of bizarre statement. Let's take the first part of that, where he says he consults with international law. First of all, is there some validity to that criticism?

BARR: There's a great deal of validity to that particular criticism. You want to have Supreme Court justices, above all others in our country, understand U.S. law, U.S. policies and the U.S. Constitution and have those things as the basis for their decisions, not what people in France or Italy or India think about something.

O'BRIEN: All right, but as a Supreme Court justice, you're entitled to consult anything you want, aren't you?

BARR: No, you're not entitled to consult anything you want as the basis for your opinion. You are sworn to uphold the U.S. Constitution, and your job requires that you look to U.S. law, U.S. policy and the U.S. Constitution as the basis for your decisions, not foreign law and foreign policy.

O'BRIEN: All right. This last thing about research and the Internet. What is he talking about there?

BARR: Well, I do know that a lot of folks in Washington don't know how to use the Internet. Maybe he was upset that Justice Kennedy does. I don't know. That was one of the criticisms of Newt. Newt would give these, you know, great technologically impressive speeches, and he had great difficulty using the Internet and using computers. That I'm not so sure about.

O'BRIEN: We'll put it in the bizarre category for now.

All right. Let's -- let's talk about how this plays politically, and Senator Schumer of New York had some interesting insights on all of this and how really on the other side of the aisle they're sort of cheering on statements just like this. Let's listen to Senator Schumer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: For the sake of America, I hope Tom DeLay stops this campaign. For the sake of Democrats, it's not so bad if he continues. Because the public, when they smell that whiff of abuse of power, when they smell that whiff of extremism, my way or no way, no matter what the process is, automatically goes to the other side.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: All right, he does have a point there. What we're talking about here is the American public and their sense. They have a -- you know, in their mind, they have a boundary. Has Tom DeLay crossed that boundary layer, and is he overreaching?

BARR: To be honest with you, I think Chuck Schumer has crossed that boundary. What business does a United States senator have to interject himself into the business of the other party's leadership in the other house?

O'BRIEN: He's got business. He's a Democrat. He can talk about that. Why not? Why not?

BARR: First of all...

O'BRIEN: As a Democrat, he's just talking about the political play there, and as a leading Democrat, he's got a right to talk about it.

BARR: Can you imagine if a Republican member of the House criticized the Democrat leadership of Schumer's party over in the other -- in the other body in the Senate?

O'BRIEN: Let's take that aside, though. Let's take that aside.

BARR: Aside from that -- aside from that...

O'BRIEN: Let's just talk about that Democratic point there, that perhaps the public -- there may be a huge backlash here for the Republicans as a result of all this?

BARR: The Democrats don't like Tom DeLay because he is very, very effective. He knows how to go toe to toe, mano-a-mano with them, and they don't appreciate that because he's effective. That's really at the core here.

It's all about power politics. It has nothing to do, really, with philosophy or the good of the country. It's about power politics.

O'BRIEN: All right. But how effective can he really be going forward as this whole imbroglio surrounds him?

BARR: If, in fact, and this is the job that Tom DeLay has right now, to get the party's, the Republican Party's agenda back on track. That's a tough job. They need to do it, and they need do it quickly if Tom DeLay is able to do that as the majority leader, working with the rest of the Republican leadership, then I think he'll be OK.

If they fail to do that and keep going off on these tangents or letting the party be drawn off on tangents, then it's going to be very difficult and he will pay a very personal price for that.

O'BRIEN: Let me ask you this, though, when you talk to fellow Republicans and these are comments that would not necessarily end up on the media, are they very concerned? Are they ready for him to bail?

BARR: No, absolutely not. Republican Party knows that Tom is a target for the Democrats. They also know that the main reason he's a target is because he's an effective leader. They'll stick with him.

O'BRIEN: There are some issues here. There are some questionable trips involved. There are potential cases of abuse of power here which are real. This is not just that he's a lightning rod.

BARR: But you have to remember that probably every one of those other Republicans and Democrats has taken questionable trips, too. They're only going to go so far with that.

O'BRIEN: Have you ever taken a trip like that? Is this common?

BARR: It's not common. The problem is, when you go on a trip and you look and have your staff, as they certainly ought to do, check out these groups and make sure that it is legitimate, you know, you have to rely at some point on the work of your staff.

Now, have there been members that have taken trips that appear on the surface to be A-OK and turn out later to not be? Absolutely. And that might be what Tom has fallen into here. If it is, he needs to make a clean break of it and make those -- make that clear, and I think he'll move on. But the Democrats are only going to push that issue so bar.

O'BRIEN: All right. Bob Barr, thanks for dropping by.

BARR: Sure.

O'BRIEN: Appreciate it -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right. Straight ahead we're not finished yet here on LIVE FROM. Up next, you've heard of the Hail Mary pass, right? Well, now it's the Hail Mary underpass.

And the lunch menu must really be tempting as elephants crash a restaurant.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Coming into CNN right now. We're being told a suicide bomb has exploded near Iraq, a political party. This is what we know. A suicide bomber in a car blew himself up near the political party headquarters of Iraq's caretaker prime minister, Ayad Allawi. Casualties, they do believe there are casualties. The blast hit a checkpoint near the party headquarters, a building that has been targeted previously.

Iraq has witnessed a resurgence of violence, as you know, after a relative period of calm since January 30 and the elections that took place then. We've already reported on almost 70 deaths today out of Baghdad of Iraqi National Guardsmen and other Iraqis.

Now getting word of another suicide bomb -- suicide bomber in a car blowing himself up near the party headquarters of prime minister -- caretaker prime minister, Ayad Allawi. We'll follow it, bring you more as we get it. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: You've got to like that.

O'BRIEN: You know, last time saw anything like that, they brought some free food into the newsroom. Pretty much it.

In this case, it must have been the peanut sauce that inspired this pair of pachyderms to break out of a zoo and into this restaurant in Seoul, South Korea. Pretty much took over the joint, as can you see. Bystanders stood by slack jawed.

Actually, a half dozen elephants went on the lam. At last report five are herded back and in the zoo. A sixth was at the police station. No word if he's squealed or if he has remained tight- trunked.

PHILLIPS: All right. One pretty wild story to another. Some in Chicago are calling it a miracle. And now crowds are flocking to a freeway underpass. Miles thinks it's water that sort of dripped off the side.

But anyway, judge -- judge for yourself, I guess, whether this stain on a concrete wall is really the image of the Virgin Mary. Some onlookers have brought flowers and candles. A lot of people have knelt in prayer. The Illinois Department of Transportation says the stain on the concrete wall probably resulted from salt runoff. The DOT plans to just leave it there.

O'BRIEN: All right, and a shrine is born. Another destination in the windy city.

PHILLIPS: Wraps up our holy half hour.

O'BRIEN: Holy cow, it's all over.

JUDY WOODRUFF, HOST, "INSIDE POLITICS": No prompter.

O'BRIEN: And here's Judy Woodruff with a preview of what is coming up on "INSIDE POLITICS."

Hello, Judy.

WOODRUFF: Hi there. We have a terrific show today. Arnold Schwarzenegger, the governor of California with some comments that explaining the battles he's been having with the state legislature and a lot of other Californians. We'll talk to him. We'll also talk to the chairman of the Republican National Committee, Ken Mehlman, about John Bolton, the man the president wants to be the ambassador to the United Nations.

Those stories and more coming up, "INSIDE POLITICS."

END

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