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NYPD Detectives Plead Not Guilty to Working for Mob; Texas Considers Bill to Ban Gay Foster Parents; Boston Residents Worried about Big Dig; Cardinals Provide Insights into Papal Election
Aired April 21, 2005 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CO-HOST: Civilian helicopter down, civilian contractors dead. Iraqi insurgents apparently to blame. Now what appears to be the first shoot down of a non-military aircraft in the Iraq war to date occurred some 12 miles north of the capital on a flight to Tikrit. Eleven people were on board: six American employees of the private security firm Blackwater, two Fijian body guards, three Bulgarian crew members. None survived. Iraq's civil aviation authority is investigating.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CO-HOST: At this hour we await some key votes on Capitol Hill, including one about Iraq. The Senate will vote on an emergency spending bill to support the missions in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Senate bill contains about $81 billion, a little less than the bill that emerged from the House. Both bills would pay for extra armor for U.S. military vehicles.
Also the Senate will cast a historic vote on John Negroponte to be the nation's first director of national intelligence. Confirmation of the veteran diplomat is widely expected.
And with gas prices grabbing big headlines, the House today expected to approve President Bush's latest energy package. It's built around tax cuts meant to boost domestic production of oil, coal and natural gas. The Senate will deal with the bill next month.
LIN: All right. It sounds like a plot from a television show. Two former police detectives from New York, accused of moonlighting for the mob. Did they really work for gangsters and carry out Mafia hits?
CNN's Deborah Feyerick is in New York, where the pair pleaded not guilty today -- Deb.
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, that's exactly what prosecutors are saying, that these two highly decorated NYPD detectives may have murdered as many eight rivals of the Luchese crime family, and they did this all while on the job and all while on the Mafia payroll.
Now, today these two cops, Stephen Caracappa and Louis Eppolito, pleaded not guilty in a federal courtroom. Their families were there sitting behind them in the front row. The two men are charged with a long list of crimes, from passing information to high ranking mobsters to disclosing the identities of cooperating witnesses, and all of this jeopardizing ongoing investigations. Now, for their alleged betrayal, each man was -- each man was paid $4,000 to act as moles. A big payoff for at least one of them came back in 1992 when they were given $65,000, allegedly, to rub out a Gambino family captain. Their families say they didn't do it, and they're supporting them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREA EPPOLITO, DAUGHTER: My father loved being a cop. He was so proud of all the things that he did while working for the city. He protected women. He protected children. He worked with the elderly. And we are so proud of him for absolutely everything.
My dad made a vow to protect and serve the people of this city, and he did it very, very well. Now it's time that somebody protects and serves him.
BRUCE CUTLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don't want to get into the reasons for government witnesses that defect and blame other people for things they do, and then are called all kinds of good names by certain aspects and facets of the government.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FEYERICK: Now, that woman's father, Louis Eppolito, actually wrote a book called "Mafia Cop," in which he talks about how he turned away from the family business to become one of the most highly decorated NYPD detectives. Now that lawyer who you heard there speaking said that the government was simply relying on the word of, quote unquote, "rats" to go after these two men -- Carol.
LIN: So, Deb, do you think that's where their legal strategy is going to go, is going to be to go after the credibility of these witnesses who are willing to testify against these two cops?
FEYERICK: It usually is. Usually the people who are cooperating for the government, at least in some cases when it comes to mafia trials, they are cutting a deal for themselves. And that's all stuff that comes up at the trial.
LIN: All right. Thanks very much, Deb.
PHILLIPS: The state of Texas is poised to become the first in the nation to bar gays from becoming foster parents. Passed by the Texas House 135-6, the measure now heads to the Senate.
Gay foster parents and child advocates are lining up against lawmakers.
Reporter Allie Rasmus of CNN affiliate News 8 in Austin has more on the high stakes debate.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALLIE RASMUS, NEWS 8 REPORTER (voice-over): Over the past eight years, Eva Thibaudeau has been a foster parent to dozens of children. She adopted four of them.
EVA THIBAUDEAU, PARENT OF ADOPTED CHILDREN: It ended up that these four children needed a permanent home and they were not able to find one, and so we stepped in.
RASMUS: But new legislation that just passed the House floor would prevent Thibaudeau and her partner Christina from ever becoming foster parents again.
Representative Robert Talton of Pasadena added a last minute amendment to the Child Protective Services Bill that passed Tuesday night. It prohibits gays and lesbians from being foster parents.
REP. ROBERT TALTON, TEXAS STATE REPRESENTATIVE: We do not believe that homosexuals or bisexuals should be raising our children.
RASMUS: Representative Talton says his rationale for the amendment is based on his belief that homosexuality could be passed on from parent to child.
TALTON: Some of us believe they would be better off in orphanages rather than to be raised in a homosexual/bisexual, because that's a learned behavior.
THIBAUDEAU: He clearly doesn't know anything about attachment theory and how important it is for children to be able to attach to a loving primary parent or caregiver.
RASMUS (on camera): While Representative Talton wrote the amendment, more than half the House lawmakers voted to approve it, including 10 Democrats.
HEATH RIDDLE, GAY/LESBIAN LOBBY OF TEXAS: We're disappointed. We had hoped that the vote would have turned out better and that more people would have voted with courage and voted more according to their principles.
RASMUS (voice-over): Rebecca Bigler has researched child psychology at the University of Texas for 15 years.
REBECCA BIGLER, UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS: There's just no evidence whatsoever that being raised by gay and lesbians is harmful to children or puts children at risk.
RASMUS: She says what is harmful is having a child removed from a permanent home. If it becomes law, Talton's amendment would also require current gay and lesbian parents to turn their foster children back over to the state.
BIGLER: It is terribly disrupting for a child's life to be pulled out of their home and out of their family.
RASMUS: The amendment still has a few more steps to go before becoming law. A joint Senate and House committee will work out the final details of the CPS bill in the coming months.
Thibaudeau says in the meantime, she's not giving up hope.
THIBAUDEAU: Our voices are going to be heard.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Our thanks to reporter Allie Rasmus with CNN affiliate New 8 for that, for keeping us up to date on this debate. We'll follow it, that's for sure.
LIN: You bet.
In the meantime, a woman running for a public office in Miami Beach is coming under fire for nursing her baby during a recent speech by the mayor. Sixteen women showed their support of Gabrielle Redford by breast feeding their babies during a Miami Beach commission meeting.
Other people say nursing -- nursing a child is distracting and should be done in private. Redford has apologized to anyone who might have been offended, but she says she will not stop breast feeding her child in public.
PHILLIPS: The price tag is more than $14 billion. Completion is five years overdue and counting. Now the U.S. Congress is digging into problems with Boston's road project known as "The Big Dig." We're going to get to that one just ahead on LIVE FROM.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This week in history, a 51-day stand off between a religious cult and law enforcement end in flames on April 19, 1993. The Branch Davidian compound near Waco, Texas, burned to the ground, claiming the lives of some 80 cult members.
In 1995, a truck containing a bomb exploded at Oklahoma City's Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building. One hundred sixty-eight people were killed, including 19 children.
And in Littleton, Colorado, two teenagers went on a shooting spree at Columbine High School on April 20, 1999. The gunmen, wearing black trench coats, shot and killed 13 people before turning the guns on themselves.
And that is this week in history.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(WEATHER REPORT)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Honoring a fallen Rhode Island police officer, that story tops news across America right now. The funeral was held today in Providence for detective James Allen. He was shot with his own gun this week while questioning a suspect. Thousands of police officers and firefighters from around the nation attended today's funeral.
A tragic story out of Arkansas. Six people were killed in a mobile home fire last night. Investigators say they still don't know how the blaze began or why no one escaped. Among the dead were five little boys and the mother of two of the children.
PHILLIPS: Some say a huge public works project to unsnarl traffic is nothing more than a money pit. The so-called Big Dig in Boston is billions of dollars over budget, years behind schedule and plagued with problems.
More now from CNN's Boston bureau chief Dan Lothian.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): the Big Dig project, tunnels and roadways designed to untangle part of Boston's traffic nightmare, has ballooned into America's most expensive troubled public works project, $12 billion over budget, seven years past due and a mountain of problems, including a big leak in a new total wall opened last September.
CHRISTOPHER TINGUS, BUSINESSMAN/ACTIVIST: Like my Big Dig like this?
LOTHIAN: Critic Christopher Tingus, a businessman and longtime activist, is using humor to draw attention to what he believes are serious safety concerns.
TINGUS: I thought this was a way to at least send a message to government here in New England and Boston, and also down in Washington.
LOTHIAN: He parades around Boston's waterfront in his so-called Big Dig Life Vest, a raincoat and rubber boots, talking about the leak that led to the discovery of other wall defects and the start of his campaign.
TINGUS: Why do we have hundreds of leaks, whether they're small leaks or not? People envision small leaks becoming big leaks.
LOTHIAN: There have been other problems, too. It wasn't water but rocks that rained down on about a half dozen vehicles moving through a newly opened tunnel two weeks ago.
Tim Mahoney was behind the wheel of one car.
TIM MAHONEY, MOTORIST: Heard a noise and saw the rocks, and the windshield shattered.
LOTHIAN: The same contractor responsible for defective walls took responsibility for the construction accident and apologized. This all followed a very public debate between engineering experts over the project's soundness and safety.
Officials have vowed to ensure all problems are repaired permanently, insisting that the public has nothing to fear.
MATT AMORELLO, MASSACHUSETTS TURNPIKE AUTHORITY: If there were ever a hint that public safety was in jeopardy, I promise you we would close the tunnels immediately.
LOTHIAN (on camera): The federal government has concluded that the project is safe, that there is no threat of the tunnel collapsing, but with almost weekly problems, some aren't convinced.
(voice-over) Tingus, who will wear his vest until all safety questions are answered to his satisfaction, worries the nearly $15 billion project is mired in mismanagement.
TINGUS: Did the project managers do their job out there?
LOTHIAN: And that American taxpayers have paid a high price for a Big Dig.
Dan Lothian, CNN, Boston.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: The pope had an Internet fan club, even when he was a cardinal. And now the Vatican has gone a step further and given the pontiff, the new pontiff a new e-mail address. In English, the address is BenedictXVI@Vatican.va. Now, no doubt, Pope Benedict XVI's inbox must already be jammed with prayers, problems and, of course, spam.
PHILLIPS: They'll be some requests from us: "May we have an interview?"
LIN: Yes.
PHILLIPS: That's a whole other story.
Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger was elected pope under a vow of secrecy and a shroud of concealment, but CNN's Jim Bittermann has managed to pull back that certain -- or curtain, rather, a bit to reveal what went on behind those closed doors before and after that voting took place.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JIM BITTERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As the new pope inspected his new office and tried out his new desk, a picture has been emerging of how a determined and highly organized Cardinal Ratzinger, with a boost from his predecessor, was able to win election of the papacy after less than 24 hours of voting.
His fellow cardinals began to warm to Ratzinger at John Paul II's funeral. His homily hit just the right notes, some believed.
But then it was John Paul himself who put Ratzinger in the position to deliver that homily, when he approved him as the dean of the College of Cardinals. And that position gave him an even more important platform. As dean, Ratzinger ran the daily meetings of the cardinals to deal with church business and discuss issues. Several cardinals commented that he was masterful at it, calling on each cardinal by name, using his fluency in seven languages to answer them in their own tongue, and repeatedly suggesting pastoral means for solving problems, rather than the legalistic approach he once enforced as head of the church's Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith.
Some were clearly impressed.
CARDINAL KEITH O'BRIEN, ARCHBISHOP OF EDINBURGH: He conducted the meetings in a very orderly manner, in a manner which pleased everyone.
BITTERMANN: But what happened next could have backfired. Just before the cardinals entered the conclave, the German cardinal made his blunt and direct appeal for a return to church fundamentals. Several cardinals, who could have gone one way or another on Ratzinger, found they liked his moral certainty.
Once inside the Sistine Chapel, the veil of secrecy descended. Still, it's known from talking to some present that there were four rounds of voting. The first produced a dozen or more favorites and no winner. Cardinal Ratzinger was out in front, but it's not clear by how much.
The next morning as the cardinals again prayed for the Holy Spirit's help filling out their ballot papers, the result produced what one cardinal described as a handful of names, but again Cardinal Ratzinger had not mustered two thirds of the vote.
Even though there still was no white vote, by the third unsuccessful vote, it's believed Ratzinger had a clear majority. And here, the man who would become pope may have again been helped by his predecessor.
(on camera) John Paul changed the voting rules so that a cardinal could be elected pope after 33 ballots by simple majority, not a two- thirds vote. The cardinals were nowhere near 33 ballots, but Cardinal Ratzinger apparently did have a majority. So it would have been clear to some cardinals that drawing out the process would only bring about the same result as an immediate two-thirds vote.
(voice-over) The fourth ballot carried the day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When he reached 77, everybody applauded, because we all knew then he had the two-thirds vote.
BITTERMANN: Cardinal Ratzinger had won, even though he was splitting the vote with at least two other opponents right to the end. We don't know for the moment who they are.
Jim Bittermann, CNN, Rome.
(END VIDEOTAPE) PHILLIPS: We're going to go straight to the Pentagon right now, Larry DiRita stepping up to the podium. We want to listen in specifically to see if he says anything about the civilian helicopter that crashed with six Americans on board plus three Bulgarians and two Fijian body guards.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did the Pentagon have anything to do with employing those people on the helicopter? I understand they -- did they work for Blackwater?
LAWRENCE DIRITA, DEFENSE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: It's my understanding that that company has put out a statement to that effect. We're still learning some details. There's going to be an investigation by the Iraqi civil authorities, civil aviation authorities that we will -- that the multinational force will assist with.
I'm not particularly -- I think the number was something on the order of six, but I would -- I would be careful with those reports, just because I think they'll go in and investigate and learn more in the immediate future and then learn as far as causes in the longer- term future.
But there will be investigation by Iraqi civil authorities, and we'll assist in that investigation. And there's no early indications as to what happened, how it crashed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, because I understand the U.S. military is saying probably an RPG, and a Bulgarian defense minister is saying a missile, of course, which could be anything.
DIRITA: Apparently, the Bulgarian minister of defense -- ministry of defense has made a comment to that effect. I'm not aware that we -- we have not made any official assessments on that, and I don't believe that there's been any officials statements to that effect coming out of theater from the U.S. military.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of course, by a missile could mean anything from an RPG to an actual...
DIRITA: I wouldn't want to speculate. I know -- apparently, the Iraqi -- the Bulgarian defense ministry has made a comment to the effect that they believed it was shot down. But I think we just don't know that, and we're not in a position to make any independent assessment of that yet. Nor are Iraqi civil authorities, as I understand it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Larry, can you sort out this discrepancy in figures that the Iraqi government is saying more than 50 people were found in the Tigris River and most of the people we've talked to have numbers that are quite different from that, if any at all. What happened? And why is there such a difference in the numbers?
DIRITA: First of all, why there's a difference is -- I can't say why there's a difference, but I can say that those kind of differences aren't surprising. People are gathering their own information. We now have an Iraqi government that has its own sources of information, that has its own ability to develop understanding of things that happen.
We have not made -- we don't have any indications that can corroborate the specific numbers involved. Apparently, there have been some number of individuals discovered in the stadium. The causes of their death, the time of their death, the type of -- what they were doing, and whether they were security forces or not remain in question. There have been reports all across the map on that. I don't believe MNFI has said anything yet, because MNFI has no independent ability to validate what is coming out of the Iraqi government.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why don't they have?
DIRITA: Because it's a government that's doing its own -- investigation into what they know. And we're working closely with them, but it's -- we should start to expect this, in the fact, in the sense that we will not be necessarily -- when I say we, the multinational forces -- not necessarily going to be the first or best source of information as we go forward in Iraq, because there's now an Iraqi government with police and with security forces and with intelligence apparatus.
And we're going to -- to some extent like we are in other countries, be dependent on information that we learn from the Iraqi government or in conjunction with the Iraqi government. And at the moment we just have not learned anything independent.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: let's go back. You said the stadium. How about the ones who were found in the river?
DIRITA: It's not clear to me that there's -- we aren't -- there's more about this that we don't know than what we know. And what we know is mostly what we're hearing from the Iraqi government. So we have made no independent assessment of whether there's a difference between the reports that President Talabani made with respect to the river and what we understand is the presence of some corpses at the stadium.
So we'll let this sort itself out and we'll provide such information as we're able to and mostly what we're providing will be coming from the theater.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Excuse me just a second. With all the intel stuff you have, with all the ability to look down and see things, you're not seeing 50 bodies in the river? You're not seeing any bodies in the river?
DIRITA: We're -- we're seeing nothing at the moment. What we're doing is reporting to the best of our understanding what the Iraqi government understands to be the situation. And as that gets clarified, we'll offer additional information.
But at the moment, this kind of uncertainty is -- is going to -- is something we should expect. Because as I said, the Iraqi government is the lead on this kind of activity. They're -- they're trying to understand it better themselves. Obviously, there's going to be clarifications come out as they learn more, and we'll do our best to -- to provide that information.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can't say whether you believe they're accurate or not, though?
DIRITA: I'm in no position to have a judgment on that. I just simply cannot.
PHILLIPS: Still not getting a firm word from Larry DiRita there out of the Pentagon. Two stories that we have been reporting, obviously, in the past couple of days. Most recently, that civilian helicopter crash, from all indications, blasted out of the sky just north of Baghdad, where six Americans, three Bulgarian crew members and two Fijian body guards were killed on board. Not getting any confirmation from the Pentagon. But we're on that story.
We're going to take a quick break. More news straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: We love Judy Woodruff, don't get us wrong.
LIN: Yes.
PHILLIPS: But Carlos Watson in today on "INSIDE POLITICS."
LIN: Yes.
PHILLIPS: Look at that smile.
LIN: Good to see you on the desk, Carlos.
CARLOS WATSON, HOST, "INSIDE POLITICS": I've got two of my favorite people, but they're not here; they're in Atlanta.
PHILLIPS: The love fest, right here. But we get to talk to you.
WATSON: Well, you guys, thank you.
We have got an amazing show today. I've got an exclusive interview with Ted Kennedy as he talks about rumors of a possible deal with the White House.
I'll also sit down with Senator Judiciary Chairman Arlen Specter to get the real inside scoop on where the battle over judges will go.
And last but not least, our own Bill Schneider is going to tell you today why a lot of political eyes are on Utah. All of that coming up straight ahead on "INSIDE POLITICS."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired April 21, 2005 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CO-HOST: Civilian helicopter down, civilian contractors dead. Iraqi insurgents apparently to blame. Now what appears to be the first shoot down of a non-military aircraft in the Iraq war to date occurred some 12 miles north of the capital on a flight to Tikrit. Eleven people were on board: six American employees of the private security firm Blackwater, two Fijian body guards, three Bulgarian crew members. None survived. Iraq's civil aviation authority is investigating.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CO-HOST: At this hour we await some key votes on Capitol Hill, including one about Iraq. The Senate will vote on an emergency spending bill to support the missions in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Senate bill contains about $81 billion, a little less than the bill that emerged from the House. Both bills would pay for extra armor for U.S. military vehicles.
Also the Senate will cast a historic vote on John Negroponte to be the nation's first director of national intelligence. Confirmation of the veteran diplomat is widely expected.
And with gas prices grabbing big headlines, the House today expected to approve President Bush's latest energy package. It's built around tax cuts meant to boost domestic production of oil, coal and natural gas. The Senate will deal with the bill next month.
LIN: All right. It sounds like a plot from a television show. Two former police detectives from New York, accused of moonlighting for the mob. Did they really work for gangsters and carry out Mafia hits?
CNN's Deborah Feyerick is in New York, where the pair pleaded not guilty today -- Deb.
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, that's exactly what prosecutors are saying, that these two highly decorated NYPD detectives may have murdered as many eight rivals of the Luchese crime family, and they did this all while on the job and all while on the Mafia payroll.
Now, today these two cops, Stephen Caracappa and Louis Eppolito, pleaded not guilty in a federal courtroom. Their families were there sitting behind them in the front row. The two men are charged with a long list of crimes, from passing information to high ranking mobsters to disclosing the identities of cooperating witnesses, and all of this jeopardizing ongoing investigations. Now, for their alleged betrayal, each man was -- each man was paid $4,000 to act as moles. A big payoff for at least one of them came back in 1992 when they were given $65,000, allegedly, to rub out a Gambino family captain. Their families say they didn't do it, and they're supporting them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREA EPPOLITO, DAUGHTER: My father loved being a cop. He was so proud of all the things that he did while working for the city. He protected women. He protected children. He worked with the elderly. And we are so proud of him for absolutely everything.
My dad made a vow to protect and serve the people of this city, and he did it very, very well. Now it's time that somebody protects and serves him.
BRUCE CUTLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don't want to get into the reasons for government witnesses that defect and blame other people for things they do, and then are called all kinds of good names by certain aspects and facets of the government.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FEYERICK: Now, that woman's father, Louis Eppolito, actually wrote a book called "Mafia Cop," in which he talks about how he turned away from the family business to become one of the most highly decorated NYPD detectives. Now that lawyer who you heard there speaking said that the government was simply relying on the word of, quote unquote, "rats" to go after these two men -- Carol.
LIN: So, Deb, do you think that's where their legal strategy is going to go, is going to be to go after the credibility of these witnesses who are willing to testify against these two cops?
FEYERICK: It usually is. Usually the people who are cooperating for the government, at least in some cases when it comes to mafia trials, they are cutting a deal for themselves. And that's all stuff that comes up at the trial.
LIN: All right. Thanks very much, Deb.
PHILLIPS: The state of Texas is poised to become the first in the nation to bar gays from becoming foster parents. Passed by the Texas House 135-6, the measure now heads to the Senate.
Gay foster parents and child advocates are lining up against lawmakers.
Reporter Allie Rasmus of CNN affiliate News 8 in Austin has more on the high stakes debate.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALLIE RASMUS, NEWS 8 REPORTER (voice-over): Over the past eight years, Eva Thibaudeau has been a foster parent to dozens of children. She adopted four of them.
EVA THIBAUDEAU, PARENT OF ADOPTED CHILDREN: It ended up that these four children needed a permanent home and they were not able to find one, and so we stepped in.
RASMUS: But new legislation that just passed the House floor would prevent Thibaudeau and her partner Christina from ever becoming foster parents again.
Representative Robert Talton of Pasadena added a last minute amendment to the Child Protective Services Bill that passed Tuesday night. It prohibits gays and lesbians from being foster parents.
REP. ROBERT TALTON, TEXAS STATE REPRESENTATIVE: We do not believe that homosexuals or bisexuals should be raising our children.
RASMUS: Representative Talton says his rationale for the amendment is based on his belief that homosexuality could be passed on from parent to child.
TALTON: Some of us believe they would be better off in orphanages rather than to be raised in a homosexual/bisexual, because that's a learned behavior.
THIBAUDEAU: He clearly doesn't know anything about attachment theory and how important it is for children to be able to attach to a loving primary parent or caregiver.
RASMUS (on camera): While Representative Talton wrote the amendment, more than half the House lawmakers voted to approve it, including 10 Democrats.
HEATH RIDDLE, GAY/LESBIAN LOBBY OF TEXAS: We're disappointed. We had hoped that the vote would have turned out better and that more people would have voted with courage and voted more according to their principles.
RASMUS (voice-over): Rebecca Bigler has researched child psychology at the University of Texas for 15 years.
REBECCA BIGLER, UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS: There's just no evidence whatsoever that being raised by gay and lesbians is harmful to children or puts children at risk.
RASMUS: She says what is harmful is having a child removed from a permanent home. If it becomes law, Talton's amendment would also require current gay and lesbian parents to turn their foster children back over to the state.
BIGLER: It is terribly disrupting for a child's life to be pulled out of their home and out of their family.
RASMUS: The amendment still has a few more steps to go before becoming law. A joint Senate and House committee will work out the final details of the CPS bill in the coming months.
Thibaudeau says in the meantime, she's not giving up hope.
THIBAUDEAU: Our voices are going to be heard.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Our thanks to reporter Allie Rasmus with CNN affiliate New 8 for that, for keeping us up to date on this debate. We'll follow it, that's for sure.
LIN: You bet.
In the meantime, a woman running for a public office in Miami Beach is coming under fire for nursing her baby during a recent speech by the mayor. Sixteen women showed their support of Gabrielle Redford by breast feeding their babies during a Miami Beach commission meeting.
Other people say nursing -- nursing a child is distracting and should be done in private. Redford has apologized to anyone who might have been offended, but she says she will not stop breast feeding her child in public.
PHILLIPS: The price tag is more than $14 billion. Completion is five years overdue and counting. Now the U.S. Congress is digging into problems with Boston's road project known as "The Big Dig." We're going to get to that one just ahead on LIVE FROM.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This week in history, a 51-day stand off between a religious cult and law enforcement end in flames on April 19, 1993. The Branch Davidian compound near Waco, Texas, burned to the ground, claiming the lives of some 80 cult members.
In 1995, a truck containing a bomb exploded at Oklahoma City's Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building. One hundred sixty-eight people were killed, including 19 children.
And in Littleton, Colorado, two teenagers went on a shooting spree at Columbine High School on April 20, 1999. The gunmen, wearing black trench coats, shot and killed 13 people before turning the guns on themselves.
And that is this week in history.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(WEATHER REPORT)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Honoring a fallen Rhode Island police officer, that story tops news across America right now. The funeral was held today in Providence for detective James Allen. He was shot with his own gun this week while questioning a suspect. Thousands of police officers and firefighters from around the nation attended today's funeral.
A tragic story out of Arkansas. Six people were killed in a mobile home fire last night. Investigators say they still don't know how the blaze began or why no one escaped. Among the dead were five little boys and the mother of two of the children.
PHILLIPS: Some say a huge public works project to unsnarl traffic is nothing more than a money pit. The so-called Big Dig in Boston is billions of dollars over budget, years behind schedule and plagued with problems.
More now from CNN's Boston bureau chief Dan Lothian.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): the Big Dig project, tunnels and roadways designed to untangle part of Boston's traffic nightmare, has ballooned into America's most expensive troubled public works project, $12 billion over budget, seven years past due and a mountain of problems, including a big leak in a new total wall opened last September.
CHRISTOPHER TINGUS, BUSINESSMAN/ACTIVIST: Like my Big Dig like this?
LOTHIAN: Critic Christopher Tingus, a businessman and longtime activist, is using humor to draw attention to what he believes are serious safety concerns.
TINGUS: I thought this was a way to at least send a message to government here in New England and Boston, and also down in Washington.
LOTHIAN: He parades around Boston's waterfront in his so-called Big Dig Life Vest, a raincoat and rubber boots, talking about the leak that led to the discovery of other wall defects and the start of his campaign.
TINGUS: Why do we have hundreds of leaks, whether they're small leaks or not? People envision small leaks becoming big leaks.
LOTHIAN: There have been other problems, too. It wasn't water but rocks that rained down on about a half dozen vehicles moving through a newly opened tunnel two weeks ago.
Tim Mahoney was behind the wheel of one car.
TIM MAHONEY, MOTORIST: Heard a noise and saw the rocks, and the windshield shattered.
LOTHIAN: The same contractor responsible for defective walls took responsibility for the construction accident and apologized. This all followed a very public debate between engineering experts over the project's soundness and safety.
Officials have vowed to ensure all problems are repaired permanently, insisting that the public has nothing to fear.
MATT AMORELLO, MASSACHUSETTS TURNPIKE AUTHORITY: If there were ever a hint that public safety was in jeopardy, I promise you we would close the tunnels immediately.
LOTHIAN (on camera): The federal government has concluded that the project is safe, that there is no threat of the tunnel collapsing, but with almost weekly problems, some aren't convinced.
(voice-over) Tingus, who will wear his vest until all safety questions are answered to his satisfaction, worries the nearly $15 billion project is mired in mismanagement.
TINGUS: Did the project managers do their job out there?
LOTHIAN: And that American taxpayers have paid a high price for a Big Dig.
Dan Lothian, CNN, Boston.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: The pope had an Internet fan club, even when he was a cardinal. And now the Vatican has gone a step further and given the pontiff, the new pontiff a new e-mail address. In English, the address is BenedictXVI@Vatican.va. Now, no doubt, Pope Benedict XVI's inbox must already be jammed with prayers, problems and, of course, spam.
PHILLIPS: They'll be some requests from us: "May we have an interview?"
LIN: Yes.
PHILLIPS: That's a whole other story.
Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger was elected pope under a vow of secrecy and a shroud of concealment, but CNN's Jim Bittermann has managed to pull back that certain -- or curtain, rather, a bit to reveal what went on behind those closed doors before and after that voting took place.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JIM BITTERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As the new pope inspected his new office and tried out his new desk, a picture has been emerging of how a determined and highly organized Cardinal Ratzinger, with a boost from his predecessor, was able to win election of the papacy after less than 24 hours of voting.
His fellow cardinals began to warm to Ratzinger at John Paul II's funeral. His homily hit just the right notes, some believed.
But then it was John Paul himself who put Ratzinger in the position to deliver that homily, when he approved him as the dean of the College of Cardinals. And that position gave him an even more important platform. As dean, Ratzinger ran the daily meetings of the cardinals to deal with church business and discuss issues. Several cardinals commented that he was masterful at it, calling on each cardinal by name, using his fluency in seven languages to answer them in their own tongue, and repeatedly suggesting pastoral means for solving problems, rather than the legalistic approach he once enforced as head of the church's Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith.
Some were clearly impressed.
CARDINAL KEITH O'BRIEN, ARCHBISHOP OF EDINBURGH: He conducted the meetings in a very orderly manner, in a manner which pleased everyone.
BITTERMANN: But what happened next could have backfired. Just before the cardinals entered the conclave, the German cardinal made his blunt and direct appeal for a return to church fundamentals. Several cardinals, who could have gone one way or another on Ratzinger, found they liked his moral certainty.
Once inside the Sistine Chapel, the veil of secrecy descended. Still, it's known from talking to some present that there were four rounds of voting. The first produced a dozen or more favorites and no winner. Cardinal Ratzinger was out in front, but it's not clear by how much.
The next morning as the cardinals again prayed for the Holy Spirit's help filling out their ballot papers, the result produced what one cardinal described as a handful of names, but again Cardinal Ratzinger had not mustered two thirds of the vote.
Even though there still was no white vote, by the third unsuccessful vote, it's believed Ratzinger had a clear majority. And here, the man who would become pope may have again been helped by his predecessor.
(on camera) John Paul changed the voting rules so that a cardinal could be elected pope after 33 ballots by simple majority, not a two- thirds vote. The cardinals were nowhere near 33 ballots, but Cardinal Ratzinger apparently did have a majority. So it would have been clear to some cardinals that drawing out the process would only bring about the same result as an immediate two-thirds vote.
(voice-over) The fourth ballot carried the day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When he reached 77, everybody applauded, because we all knew then he had the two-thirds vote.
BITTERMANN: Cardinal Ratzinger had won, even though he was splitting the vote with at least two other opponents right to the end. We don't know for the moment who they are.
Jim Bittermann, CNN, Rome.
(END VIDEOTAPE) PHILLIPS: We're going to go straight to the Pentagon right now, Larry DiRita stepping up to the podium. We want to listen in specifically to see if he says anything about the civilian helicopter that crashed with six Americans on board plus three Bulgarians and two Fijian body guards.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did the Pentagon have anything to do with employing those people on the helicopter? I understand they -- did they work for Blackwater?
LAWRENCE DIRITA, DEFENSE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: It's my understanding that that company has put out a statement to that effect. We're still learning some details. There's going to be an investigation by the Iraqi civil authorities, civil aviation authorities that we will -- that the multinational force will assist with.
I'm not particularly -- I think the number was something on the order of six, but I would -- I would be careful with those reports, just because I think they'll go in and investigate and learn more in the immediate future and then learn as far as causes in the longer- term future.
But there will be investigation by Iraqi civil authorities, and we'll assist in that investigation. And there's no early indications as to what happened, how it crashed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, because I understand the U.S. military is saying probably an RPG, and a Bulgarian defense minister is saying a missile, of course, which could be anything.
DIRITA: Apparently, the Bulgarian minister of defense -- ministry of defense has made a comment to that effect. I'm not aware that we -- we have not made any official assessments on that, and I don't believe that there's been any officials statements to that effect coming out of theater from the U.S. military.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of course, by a missile could mean anything from an RPG to an actual...
DIRITA: I wouldn't want to speculate. I know -- apparently, the Iraqi -- the Bulgarian defense ministry has made a comment to the effect that they believed it was shot down. But I think we just don't know that, and we're not in a position to make any independent assessment of that yet. Nor are Iraqi civil authorities, as I understand it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Larry, can you sort out this discrepancy in figures that the Iraqi government is saying more than 50 people were found in the Tigris River and most of the people we've talked to have numbers that are quite different from that, if any at all. What happened? And why is there such a difference in the numbers?
DIRITA: First of all, why there's a difference is -- I can't say why there's a difference, but I can say that those kind of differences aren't surprising. People are gathering their own information. We now have an Iraqi government that has its own sources of information, that has its own ability to develop understanding of things that happen.
We have not made -- we don't have any indications that can corroborate the specific numbers involved. Apparently, there have been some number of individuals discovered in the stadium. The causes of their death, the time of their death, the type of -- what they were doing, and whether they were security forces or not remain in question. There have been reports all across the map on that. I don't believe MNFI has said anything yet, because MNFI has no independent ability to validate what is coming out of the Iraqi government.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why don't they have?
DIRITA: Because it's a government that's doing its own -- investigation into what they know. And we're working closely with them, but it's -- we should start to expect this, in the fact, in the sense that we will not be necessarily -- when I say we, the multinational forces -- not necessarily going to be the first or best source of information as we go forward in Iraq, because there's now an Iraqi government with police and with security forces and with intelligence apparatus.
And we're going to -- to some extent like we are in other countries, be dependent on information that we learn from the Iraqi government or in conjunction with the Iraqi government. And at the moment we just have not learned anything independent.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: let's go back. You said the stadium. How about the ones who were found in the river?
DIRITA: It's not clear to me that there's -- we aren't -- there's more about this that we don't know than what we know. And what we know is mostly what we're hearing from the Iraqi government. So we have made no independent assessment of whether there's a difference between the reports that President Talabani made with respect to the river and what we understand is the presence of some corpses at the stadium.
So we'll let this sort itself out and we'll provide such information as we're able to and mostly what we're providing will be coming from the theater.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Excuse me just a second. With all the intel stuff you have, with all the ability to look down and see things, you're not seeing 50 bodies in the river? You're not seeing any bodies in the river?
DIRITA: We're -- we're seeing nothing at the moment. What we're doing is reporting to the best of our understanding what the Iraqi government understands to be the situation. And as that gets clarified, we'll offer additional information.
But at the moment, this kind of uncertainty is -- is going to -- is something we should expect. Because as I said, the Iraqi government is the lead on this kind of activity. They're -- they're trying to understand it better themselves. Obviously, there's going to be clarifications come out as they learn more, and we'll do our best to -- to provide that information.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can't say whether you believe they're accurate or not, though?
DIRITA: I'm in no position to have a judgment on that. I just simply cannot.
PHILLIPS: Still not getting a firm word from Larry DiRita there out of the Pentagon. Two stories that we have been reporting, obviously, in the past couple of days. Most recently, that civilian helicopter crash, from all indications, blasted out of the sky just north of Baghdad, where six Americans, three Bulgarian crew members and two Fijian body guards were killed on board. Not getting any confirmation from the Pentagon. But we're on that story.
We're going to take a quick break. More news straight ahead.
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PHILLIPS: We love Judy Woodruff, don't get us wrong.
LIN: Yes.
PHILLIPS: But Carlos Watson in today on "INSIDE POLITICS."
LIN: Yes.
PHILLIPS: Look at that smile.
LIN: Good to see you on the desk, Carlos.
CARLOS WATSON, HOST, "INSIDE POLITICS": I've got two of my favorite people, but they're not here; they're in Atlanta.
PHILLIPS: The love fest, right here. But we get to talk to you.
WATSON: Well, you guys, thank you.
We have got an amazing show today. I've got an exclusive interview with Ted Kennedy as he talks about rumors of a possible deal with the White House.
I'll also sit down with Senator Judiciary Chairman Arlen Specter to get the real inside scoop on where the battle over judges will go.
And last but not least, our own Bill Schneider is going to tell you today why a lot of political eyes are on Utah. All of that coming up straight ahead on "INSIDE POLITICS."
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