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Autopsy Performed on Toddlers Found in Pond; U.S. Came Close to Capturing Zarqawi; Bush Finishing Phase One of Social Security Blitz
Aired April 26, 2005 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CO-HOST: Close, but no Zarqawi. Detail on just how close the American military came to nabbing the most wanted terrorist in Iraq. We're LIVE FROM the Pentagon.
TONY HARRIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Waiting for autopsy results. What happened to two little children found dead in a pond near their home? I'm Tony Harris, live from Warrenton, Georgia.
PHILLIPS: A dangerous drug on the rise. One state's solution to methamphetamine that could affect your next trip to the drugstore.
Citizens on patrol for illegal immigrants. Does the controversial Minuteman Project, guarding America's border, really work? We're going to talk with two men who organized the effort.
From the CNN center in Atlanta, I'm Kyra Phillips. Miles O'Brien is on assignment. CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.
We're following another missing child search this hour. Again, in Florida. Police in Brandenton on the Gulf Coast, just south of Tampa, fear that 12-year-old Margarita Aguilar-Lopez was kidnapped. They say she was last seen yesterday, possibly in the company of a 25- year-old Hispanic man who may have a scar on his forehead. Police say the pair may be traveling in a red Ford minivan with a Florida tag.
We'll bring you more information as soon as we get it.
Well, how did the toddlers end up in the pond? Three days after Nicole and Jonah Payne disappeared from their home near Augusta, Georgia, one day after their algae-covered bodies were found in a so- called sanitation pond nearby, police are hoping that autopsies can tell them how the children died and whether foul play was a factor.
CNN's Tony Harris joins me now from the rural community of Warrenton with more -- Tony.
HARRIS: And good afternoon, Kyra.
So much of this investigation now hinges on the results of those autopsies that are being conducted right now, even as we speak, by the Georgia Bureau of Investigations at the crime lab in Augusta, Georgia, just a short drive from where we are right now.
We don't know, for example, how these children died. What is the cause of death? Did they drown? Was there other sort of trauma that led to death? We can tell you that the search for the children ended tragically yesterday afternoon, just about 12:15 in the afternoon, when their bodies were found in what you rightly described as a sanitation pond, a short distance from the home, just a few hundred yards from their home.
Let's get to some of the news that we can report to you this hour. A short time ago, Warren County coroner Paul Lowe talked to us about the preliminary -- and let me mark that -- the preliminary autopsy findings. Here's what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL LOWE, WARREN COUNTY CORONER: It's a trauma. I think -- and I stress to you, there is no indication that there is any foul play involved in this. But there again, the investigation is ongoing and we'll be talking with the sheriff and GBI later, and we'll be putting the pieces of the puzzle together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: And once again, that was Warren County coroner Paul Lowe. He is waiting for a call right now, we understand, from Dr. Brown, who is conducting the autopsy for the -- for the Georgia Bureau of Investigations. He's waiting for that call on the final findings in the autopsy. That is going on right now. And as soon as we have that information, Kyra, we will pass that along to you.
PHILLIPS: Tony Harris, we'll stay in touch with you. Thank you.
Now to Iraq, early 2003, with a massive U.S. invasion force breathing down the neck of Saddam Hussein. Did the soon to be toppled dictator sneak weapons of mass destruction into Syria?
Unlikely, says the same Iraq survey group that concluded that Saddam had no WMD when the invasion went down. The Syria scenario was floated and long defended by many people in the Bush administration. But the survey group in its final report says 12 year of U.S. sanctions left Iraq with little, if any, capacity for contraband weapons.
Fast forward, February 2005. A new report suggests a very near miss for U.S. forces tracking Iraq's most wanted terrorist.
CNN's Barbara Starr has the latest now from the Pentagon -- Barbara.
BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you, Kyra.
U.S. officials now confirming details of a story that CNN first reported back in March. And that is that U.S. troops had come very close to capturing Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the most wanted man in Iraq.
New details now being confirmed. It was February 20, near the city of Ramadi, which is west of Falluja. U.S. Special Operations Forces had what they believed was a very credible piece of information that Zarqawi would be moving through the area. They chased down a vehicle that they were pretty sure he was traveling in. Somehow, he had escaped from that vehicle shortly before U.S. Forces got to him.
But when they got to the vehicle they still found plenty of things to interest them. They captured a laptop computer that one official says had a treasure trove of information about Zarqawi and his operations. Also, indications of communications with Osama bin Laden.
And a number of people were also detained from that situation. And now U.S. officials say they believe one of the people they captured that day was a trusted lieutenant courier for Osama bin Laden. Very crucial, very critical, because now this begins to underscore the U.S. view that Osama bin Laden and Abu Musab al-Zarqawi have been in two-way communication -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Barbara Starr, LIVE FROM the Pentagon, thank you.
And the search for common ground on Social Security may be at a crossroads. President Bush is wrapping up a 60 day P.R. blitz in support of his partial privatization plan, just as a skeptical Senate Finance Committee opens hearings in Washington.
Mr. Bush is in Galveston, Texas, where he's hoping a controversial lawmaker can help sell a controversial program.
CNN's Suzanne Malveaux is there, too. Hi, Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kyra.
President Bush, of course, is in Galveston, Texas. That is where there is a program -- the county, really, has a program where they allow some of their employees to invest at least part of their Social Security contributions to conservative bonds. And it's something that President Bush will point out is a possible model for his own plan.
The White House saying that they have seen a recent Gallup poll that shows two-thirds of Americans believe that Congress has been moving too slowly on this issue.
But it has been a tough sell for President Bush. The latest Washington/ABC poll showing that when it comes to private accounts, 51 percent oppose them, 45 percent support them. And when it come to how President Bush is handle the Social Security issue overall, that 31 percent approve the job he's doing, 64 percent disapprove.
Now, Kyra, of course what is also noteworthy on this trip is who is actually attending the event and who will travel back on Air Force One with the president. That is House Majority Leader Tom DeLay. He is, of course, the embattled Texas Republican who is facing numerous ethics questions.
We were asked, of course, whether or not this was a sign of support for the congressman. While everybody certainly doesn't believe that President Bush will reach out his hand and hold his hand like he did to the Crown Prince Abdullah yesterday, they are looking for sign of support.
White House press secretary Scott McClellan was asked about that. And he says, of course, it is typical that members of Congress who represent the district where President Bush is traveling, or neighboring districts, that they travel with the president.
But he also specifically said, as well, when asked about the president's support, he says, "as strongly as he ever had, which is strongly." That is the kind of support that he is giving DeLay. He also went on to say, "that he is someone who is committed to getting things done on our shared priorities."
So Kyra, it is very clear that this White House is sticking by DeLay, despite some of those problems that he's had. Also should let you know, you mentioned this is kind of 60-day, 60-stop campaign-style tour that he's selling the Social Security plan. Don't expect for that to end anytime soon. Officially, that stop date is going to be May 1, when the 60 days runs out. But we're told that's just the end of phase one.
Phase two, of course, not focusing on the problem, but, rather, the solutions. Critics say it certainly is a sign that President Bush has not sold his plan to the American people and that he has a lot more work to do -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Suzanne Malveaux, thank you so much.
Hard drugs in the heartland. If you had to guess which state accounted for most meth lab raids in 2004, would you guess Missouri? Well, new stats from the Drug Enforcement Administration show 1,088 methamphetamine operations were busted in the "Show Me" state, to 895, in the second most popular meth state, Tennessee. California, the nation's most populous state, comes in fifth in the number of meth raids.
Oklahoma didn't make the top five and that's possibly because of what happened on a side road, a country road, in the dark, on the day after Christmas 2003.
CNN's Drew Griffin has that story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Linda Green's perfect family.
LINDA GREEN, WIDOW OF SLAIN TROOPER: Our life in general was just picture-perfect. And just had a wonderful marriage. Three beautiful daughters. And Christmas day was just -- you know, such a picture-perfect day.
GRIFFIN: This is that picture of Christmas Day 2003. But every family photo from that day on would be without Nick Green.
December 26, Trooper Nick Green woke to the sound a knock at his door. A woman delivering newspapers saw a motorist in trouble. It was 6:15, still dark.
(on camera) Was he scheduled to go to work?
GREEN: That day at 9 a.m. in the morning. But he came in there and kissed me good-bye and said, "I'm going to go ahead and go to work."
GRIFFIN (voice-over): What Nick Green found on that rural road was captured on his patrol car's camera. A meth addict was using a car as a mobile meth lab.
Addicts and meth labs were sweeping across Oklahoma that year. Twelve hundred labs had been dismantled. The state patrol had already lost two of its troopers in the fight against meth. And Trooper Green often told his wife of the devastation the drug was leaving in its wake.
GREEN: And now, I realize that his education, his knowledge of the drug, is why he was so fearful of what it was going to do, fearful of the things that it caused, and fearful for our youth, for our society in general.
GRIFFIN: This May, jurors will see the rest of what was caught on this tape, a trooper and a drug addict in a deadly struggle. The voice of Nick Green pleading for his life. The sound of a gunshot. And on the day after a picture-perfect Christmas, the death of a third Oklahoma state trooper.
(on camera) It was the day Oklahoma state lawmakers decided they had had enough. There was already a bill working its way through this capital to deal with meth problem. But now that bill had a new name -- actually, three new names, of each trooper killed, including Trooper Green.
The bill also had the backing of a widow who wasn't about to see a fourth trooper die over meth. That bill became a law almost a year ago. And the results in Oklahoma have been astounding.
MARK WOODWARD, OKLAHOMA BUREAU OF NARCOTICS: The very first month this all passed, last April -- it passed April 6. At the end of April, we had a drop of about 40 percent in meth labs.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): What changed? Mark Woodward of the Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics said it turned out to be simple, in fact, as simple as making meth itself.
This, believe it or not, is all you need to make meth. Typical household products like matches and plastic tubs and household chemicals like drain cleaner. But the key ingredient for all of it is the common cold medicine pseudoephedrine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The rest of the chemicals is worthless if you don't have the pseudoephedrine. They need the pseudoephedrine tablets.
GRIFFIN: And sales of pseudoephedrine were soaring in Oklahoma, products like these being bought or stolen by the cartons. The solution was to take it off the shelves.
(on camera) So where is it now?
DANI LYNCH, PHARMACIST: We keep it behind the counter now, as the law dictates.
GRIFFIN: Since April 6 of last year, all pseudoephedrine tablets in Oklahoma can be sold only by a licensed pharmacist like Dani Lynch.
(on camera) So if anybody wants these, they can still get them. They can still see them -- but they've got to...
LYNCH: Come in and produce a driver's license, a valid driver's license. We fill out the form with their name, address, the amount of milligrams that they're purchasing, so we can keep track of that because they're only allowed nine grams for the month.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): Before the law, police were busting an average of 92 meth labs a month. Now that number is down to 19. Meth makers are forced to drive to neighboring states like Texas to buy pseudoephedrine. But those states are moving to pass similar laws.
Once Oklahoma's neighbors put pseudoephedrine behind the counter, Mark Woodward expects almost all of his state's meth labs to go out of business.
WOODWARD: What we've said all along is as good as the numbers are, they're only going to get better if these other states pass this law.
GRIFFIN: Linda Green and two of her daughters were there the day Oklahoma's legislature approved the bill. They were there the day the governor signed it.
GREEN: I felt like if there was anything that I could do to help the safety of the next trooper or the next law officer or the next wife or children of a law enforcement officer, that this was it. I had to -- I had to be active in getting something done about the meth problem that we were having statewide and even national.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Wow. Taking down the meth labs doesn't necessarily mean that less people are going to use meth, right?
GRIFFIN: No, and they're not saying that. The meth use is still very high in these areas. But they wanted to get rid of these labs because they are so dangerous, No. 1, to the kids of these meth users.
And No. 2, they take so much time to clean up in neighborhoods, in trailer parks or in the case of Nick Green, this guy was cooking meth in his own car. So they wanted to take away that toxic equation, free up the manpower to try to go after the bulk of the meth, which is still coming up from Mexico by couriers.
PHILLIPS: Let's back up a little bit. And why this is so popular and why so many teens are using meth. I know, even among friends of mine with kids this is something they're talking about -- they're talking about in classrooms more than marijuana and some of the other drugs.
GRIFFIN: Right. It's super cheap, relatively speaking. It's called the rural crack. It's spread quickly through rural areas and basically brought up through -- you know, by immigrants who have come from Mexico and biker gangs. So it's distributed just about everywhere. And like we've seen, it's pretty darn easy to make.
So it has become very popular among young kids, rural areas, economically depressed areas. And it's just infiltrated that whole environment.
PHILLIPS: Drew Griffin, another good in depth report. Thank you so much.
More now, a little bit of developing news on that plane that was grounded in New York. Chris Lawrence joining us with the details.
Is it getting ready to take off, Chris?
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's been grounded. Well, it's been diverted here to Chicago, here at O'Hare Airport in Chicago, Kyra. And we believe that in the next few hours that plane could be released and go on its way to San Francisco.
Right now, what we are hearing is that this was, in all accounts, a false alarm. What happened was the plane was diverted when there were reports of some suspicious materials on board. So it was diverted from its flight from -- heading to San Francisco. It was diverted here to Chicago.
Now what we are hearing is that a couple passengers became concerned when they noticed one of their fellow passengers had a couple vials of homeopathic medicine, an MP3 player and a cord for a laptop. Putting that all together, they thought that was somewhat suspicious. They alerted the flight crew. The plane was then diverted here to Chicago.
All the passengers got off the plane safely. And bomb and arson squad, went through the plane. The FAA was contacted. And they found nothing to indicate there was any kind of threat on that plane. And we believe that very soon that plane will be released to go on to San Francisco.
But it does kind of point out just how concerned people are now, that we are all traveling with a very heightened sense of security. And people are very vigilant in terms of looking at their fellow passengers and looking for things that may be suspicious, as we have all been directed to do by the Department of Homeland Security, by the FAA. We've been told to be more vigilant, and apparently, that's what led to this flight being diverted.
PHILLIPS: OK. Chris Lawrence, thank you so much. And I'm getting word now in just less than 15 minutes or so, we expect a live briefing from the Pentagon, with Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Joint Chiefs Chairman Richard Myers. We're going to bring that to you live as soon as it happens.
Also ahead, guarding America's border. Citizens who call themselves Minutemen go on patrol, but does the project work? We're going to talk with two of the organizers just ahead.
ANNOUNCER: You're watching LIVE FROM on CNN, the most trusted name in news.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Day or night, rain or shine, hundreds of volunteers are keeping watch along a stretch of the Arizona/Mexico border to try to stop illegal immigration dead in its tracks.
The month-long watch is known as the Minuteman Project, and volunteers say it's paying off. So much in fact, the group's founders are going before Congress next hour to deliver an ultimatum.
I'll talk to both of them in just a minute. But first, CNN's Soledad O'Brien explains the group's beef with the border.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CO-HOST, "AMERICAN MORNING" (voice-over): Nearly 900 volunteers have helped capture 315 illegal immigrants along the Mexico/Arizona border. That's what the all-volunteer Minuteman Project says it's accomplished since early April when the group began patrolling a 23-mile stretch of desert between Naco and Douglas.
U.S. border officials have doubts about the group's claims.
MICHAEL NICELY, TUCSON BORDER PATROL CHIEF: As far as them having an effect on stopping illegal immigration, it's been negligible. Any kind of official government presence in the south is a deterrent.
O'BRIEN: Still the project's organizers insist they've been successful. And they say they'll extend the program, which was supposed to end this week, until Congress improves border security.
CHRIS SIMCOX, MINUTEMAN PROJECT: We will not discontinue patrolling the border until the Congress fund and clear the way for the National Guard and/or specially trained military troops to -- to follow our model.
O'BRIEN: Minuteman patrols are now being planned for Texas, New Mexico and California. And discussions are under way to spread the program to northern border states like Michigan and Vermont.
One of the group's founders, Jim Gilchrest, says he'll lead an entirely new phase of the project, which will include protests against employers who use illegal immigrants. (END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Joining me now from Washington are the two group's founders, Jim Gilchrest and Chris Simcox. Gentlemen, thanks for joining me. Before you go before Congress.
Let me start with you, Jim. One of you just turning off your cell phone. I'm glad we won't have any distractions. That's good, unless it's important.
Jim, let's start with you and why you feel so strongly about the Minuteman Project.
JIM GILCHREST, MINUTEMAN PROJECT: After 10 years of pleading with congressional representatives and getting no -- absolutely no response regarding the lack of enforcement of immigration laws, I felt it was necessary to literally take care of the problem myself.
So I launched something called the Minuteman Project, which the primary purpose was to bring national awareness to the illegal alien invasion crisis and, secondarily, to show that physical presence on the border will seal that border, and we've been very successful in both of those.
PHILLIPS: Now, we heard from Michael Nicely, the Tucson border patrol chief. And he said, and I quote, "As far as them having an effect on stopping illegal immigration, it's been negligible." Chris, how do you know it's working?
SIMCOX: Well, we've been actually supported by the border patrol labor union in the Tucson sector, who completely refutes Michael Nicely's claims that we've gotten in the way or we -- that this has been negligent.
The rank and file field agents that I've been working with for 2 1/2 years in that area know that we've assisted them with almost 5,000 apprehensions of people from 26 different countries. And that's what the listeners need to know.
This is not just about poor migrant workers coming for a better life. This is the most glaring gap in national security that both the 9/11 Commission, the FBI, the CIA all admit that this is a clear and present danger. We must do something about it. And the citizens are showing that it can be done.
PHILLIPS: You talk about the threat. Jim, have you reported anybody or turned anyone in that is a known terrorist or someone that is known to have had relationships with a known terrorist?
GILCHREST: Not that we know of. There have been approximately 315 illegal aliens intercepted by border patrol from our observation and reporting activities. Whether they are terrorists, that is yet to be determined.
PHILLIPS: Chris, a number of these volunteers are armed. Why? SIMCOX: Because it's their right, and because we know, and I lived on the -- I've been living on the border in Cochise County for the last three years. You have drug dealers. You have vicious human smugglers, you know, who are engaged in slave trading on this border. It's -- it's immoral. But it's a dangerous place to be.
And we, as citizens, have the right to defend ourselves if attacked with lethal force on that border. Fortunately, no one has during this time. And we hope it continues that way.
PHILLIPS: But Chris it sounds like you're putting yourself even above the law and saying that the border patrol is simply not doing its job...
SIMCOX: No.
PHILLIPS: ... so you've taking it upon yourself to arm yourself. And what are you going to do? You're not supposed to engage in any type of violent, vigilante-type of work. You're just supposed to report them, correct? So what if you come in contact with a violent smuggler. There you are with a gun. What do you do?
SIMCOX: Well, we are aware of the laws of state of Arizona, and we would defend ourselves in an appropriate way within the law.
And so many people have tried to construe this as being above the law. Actually, it's a citizen's duty to assist law enforcement. And this is just a neighborhood watch group, the same as any other community in this country.
After all, the president himself asked Americans to be vigilant, alert and aware and to report suspicious activity to the proper authorities. You can't find any more suspicious activity than what we live with on that border every day. One point one million people walking through our back yards last year. That's unacceptable.
PHILLIPS: Chris, finally, wrap it up. What are you going to tell Congress?
SIMCOX: No compromise. We will continue to grow this effort. We will -- we have over 15,000 volunteers in the queue. We will hold a simultaneous four-southern border state initiative starting in the fall. Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, again, we'll continue over the summer, and California.
We're also moving to the northern border. We have four northern border states.
So it's no compromise. The only way you'll get citizens to leave the border at this point is to relieve us from duty with National Guard troops.
PHILLIPS: Chris Simcox, Jim Gilchrest, I wish we had more to talk about, but we will be doing it more in the next couple of days. We'll follow what happens today, of course, and revisit this tomorrow. Gentlemen, thank you. SIMCOX: Thanks.
GILCHREST: Thank you.
PHILLIPS: CNN is committed to providing the most reliable coverage of news that affects your security. Stay tuned to CNN for the latest information day and night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS (voice-over): Later on LIVE FROM, the prince and the paparazzi. Did the quest for the ultimate photo endanger Harry's life?
Later on LIVE FROM...
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You think you could make more money if you were a bigger jerk?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Probably, yes.
PHILLIPS: ... scientific proof that nice guys do finish last and get paid less than their jerky co-workers.
Tomorrow on LIVE FROM, it debuted with fanfare. But will the world's biggest airliner get off the ground? We'll follow its maiden flight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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Aired April 26, 2005 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CO-HOST: Close, but no Zarqawi. Detail on just how close the American military came to nabbing the most wanted terrorist in Iraq. We're LIVE FROM the Pentagon.
TONY HARRIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Waiting for autopsy results. What happened to two little children found dead in a pond near their home? I'm Tony Harris, live from Warrenton, Georgia.
PHILLIPS: A dangerous drug on the rise. One state's solution to methamphetamine that could affect your next trip to the drugstore.
Citizens on patrol for illegal immigrants. Does the controversial Minuteman Project, guarding America's border, really work? We're going to talk with two men who organized the effort.
From the CNN center in Atlanta, I'm Kyra Phillips. Miles O'Brien is on assignment. CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.
We're following another missing child search this hour. Again, in Florida. Police in Brandenton on the Gulf Coast, just south of Tampa, fear that 12-year-old Margarita Aguilar-Lopez was kidnapped. They say she was last seen yesterday, possibly in the company of a 25- year-old Hispanic man who may have a scar on his forehead. Police say the pair may be traveling in a red Ford minivan with a Florida tag.
We'll bring you more information as soon as we get it.
Well, how did the toddlers end up in the pond? Three days after Nicole and Jonah Payne disappeared from their home near Augusta, Georgia, one day after their algae-covered bodies were found in a so- called sanitation pond nearby, police are hoping that autopsies can tell them how the children died and whether foul play was a factor.
CNN's Tony Harris joins me now from the rural community of Warrenton with more -- Tony.
HARRIS: And good afternoon, Kyra.
So much of this investigation now hinges on the results of those autopsies that are being conducted right now, even as we speak, by the Georgia Bureau of Investigations at the crime lab in Augusta, Georgia, just a short drive from where we are right now.
We don't know, for example, how these children died. What is the cause of death? Did they drown? Was there other sort of trauma that led to death? We can tell you that the search for the children ended tragically yesterday afternoon, just about 12:15 in the afternoon, when their bodies were found in what you rightly described as a sanitation pond, a short distance from the home, just a few hundred yards from their home.
Let's get to some of the news that we can report to you this hour. A short time ago, Warren County coroner Paul Lowe talked to us about the preliminary -- and let me mark that -- the preliminary autopsy findings. Here's what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL LOWE, WARREN COUNTY CORONER: It's a trauma. I think -- and I stress to you, there is no indication that there is any foul play involved in this. But there again, the investigation is ongoing and we'll be talking with the sheriff and GBI later, and we'll be putting the pieces of the puzzle together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: And once again, that was Warren County coroner Paul Lowe. He is waiting for a call right now, we understand, from Dr. Brown, who is conducting the autopsy for the -- for the Georgia Bureau of Investigations. He's waiting for that call on the final findings in the autopsy. That is going on right now. And as soon as we have that information, Kyra, we will pass that along to you.
PHILLIPS: Tony Harris, we'll stay in touch with you. Thank you.
Now to Iraq, early 2003, with a massive U.S. invasion force breathing down the neck of Saddam Hussein. Did the soon to be toppled dictator sneak weapons of mass destruction into Syria?
Unlikely, says the same Iraq survey group that concluded that Saddam had no WMD when the invasion went down. The Syria scenario was floated and long defended by many people in the Bush administration. But the survey group in its final report says 12 year of U.S. sanctions left Iraq with little, if any, capacity for contraband weapons.
Fast forward, February 2005. A new report suggests a very near miss for U.S. forces tracking Iraq's most wanted terrorist.
CNN's Barbara Starr has the latest now from the Pentagon -- Barbara.
BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you, Kyra.
U.S. officials now confirming details of a story that CNN first reported back in March. And that is that U.S. troops had come very close to capturing Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the most wanted man in Iraq.
New details now being confirmed. It was February 20, near the city of Ramadi, which is west of Falluja. U.S. Special Operations Forces had what they believed was a very credible piece of information that Zarqawi would be moving through the area. They chased down a vehicle that they were pretty sure he was traveling in. Somehow, he had escaped from that vehicle shortly before U.S. Forces got to him.
But when they got to the vehicle they still found plenty of things to interest them. They captured a laptop computer that one official says had a treasure trove of information about Zarqawi and his operations. Also, indications of communications with Osama bin Laden.
And a number of people were also detained from that situation. And now U.S. officials say they believe one of the people they captured that day was a trusted lieutenant courier for Osama bin Laden. Very crucial, very critical, because now this begins to underscore the U.S. view that Osama bin Laden and Abu Musab al-Zarqawi have been in two-way communication -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Barbara Starr, LIVE FROM the Pentagon, thank you.
And the search for common ground on Social Security may be at a crossroads. President Bush is wrapping up a 60 day P.R. blitz in support of his partial privatization plan, just as a skeptical Senate Finance Committee opens hearings in Washington.
Mr. Bush is in Galveston, Texas, where he's hoping a controversial lawmaker can help sell a controversial program.
CNN's Suzanne Malveaux is there, too. Hi, Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kyra.
President Bush, of course, is in Galveston, Texas. That is where there is a program -- the county, really, has a program where they allow some of their employees to invest at least part of their Social Security contributions to conservative bonds. And it's something that President Bush will point out is a possible model for his own plan.
The White House saying that they have seen a recent Gallup poll that shows two-thirds of Americans believe that Congress has been moving too slowly on this issue.
But it has been a tough sell for President Bush. The latest Washington/ABC poll showing that when it comes to private accounts, 51 percent oppose them, 45 percent support them. And when it come to how President Bush is handle the Social Security issue overall, that 31 percent approve the job he's doing, 64 percent disapprove.
Now, Kyra, of course what is also noteworthy on this trip is who is actually attending the event and who will travel back on Air Force One with the president. That is House Majority Leader Tom DeLay. He is, of course, the embattled Texas Republican who is facing numerous ethics questions.
We were asked, of course, whether or not this was a sign of support for the congressman. While everybody certainly doesn't believe that President Bush will reach out his hand and hold his hand like he did to the Crown Prince Abdullah yesterday, they are looking for sign of support.
White House press secretary Scott McClellan was asked about that. And he says, of course, it is typical that members of Congress who represent the district where President Bush is traveling, or neighboring districts, that they travel with the president.
But he also specifically said, as well, when asked about the president's support, he says, "as strongly as he ever had, which is strongly." That is the kind of support that he is giving DeLay. He also went on to say, "that he is someone who is committed to getting things done on our shared priorities."
So Kyra, it is very clear that this White House is sticking by DeLay, despite some of those problems that he's had. Also should let you know, you mentioned this is kind of 60-day, 60-stop campaign-style tour that he's selling the Social Security plan. Don't expect for that to end anytime soon. Officially, that stop date is going to be May 1, when the 60 days runs out. But we're told that's just the end of phase one.
Phase two, of course, not focusing on the problem, but, rather, the solutions. Critics say it certainly is a sign that President Bush has not sold his plan to the American people and that he has a lot more work to do -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Suzanne Malveaux, thank you so much.
Hard drugs in the heartland. If you had to guess which state accounted for most meth lab raids in 2004, would you guess Missouri? Well, new stats from the Drug Enforcement Administration show 1,088 methamphetamine operations were busted in the "Show Me" state, to 895, in the second most popular meth state, Tennessee. California, the nation's most populous state, comes in fifth in the number of meth raids.
Oklahoma didn't make the top five and that's possibly because of what happened on a side road, a country road, in the dark, on the day after Christmas 2003.
CNN's Drew Griffin has that story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Linda Green's perfect family.
LINDA GREEN, WIDOW OF SLAIN TROOPER: Our life in general was just picture-perfect. And just had a wonderful marriage. Three beautiful daughters. And Christmas day was just -- you know, such a picture-perfect day.
GRIFFIN: This is that picture of Christmas Day 2003. But every family photo from that day on would be without Nick Green.
December 26, Trooper Nick Green woke to the sound a knock at his door. A woman delivering newspapers saw a motorist in trouble. It was 6:15, still dark.
(on camera) Was he scheduled to go to work?
GREEN: That day at 9 a.m. in the morning. But he came in there and kissed me good-bye and said, "I'm going to go ahead and go to work."
GRIFFIN (voice-over): What Nick Green found on that rural road was captured on his patrol car's camera. A meth addict was using a car as a mobile meth lab.
Addicts and meth labs were sweeping across Oklahoma that year. Twelve hundred labs had been dismantled. The state patrol had already lost two of its troopers in the fight against meth. And Trooper Green often told his wife of the devastation the drug was leaving in its wake.
GREEN: And now, I realize that his education, his knowledge of the drug, is why he was so fearful of what it was going to do, fearful of the things that it caused, and fearful for our youth, for our society in general.
GRIFFIN: This May, jurors will see the rest of what was caught on this tape, a trooper and a drug addict in a deadly struggle. The voice of Nick Green pleading for his life. The sound of a gunshot. And on the day after a picture-perfect Christmas, the death of a third Oklahoma state trooper.
(on camera) It was the day Oklahoma state lawmakers decided they had had enough. There was already a bill working its way through this capital to deal with meth problem. But now that bill had a new name -- actually, three new names, of each trooper killed, including Trooper Green.
The bill also had the backing of a widow who wasn't about to see a fourth trooper die over meth. That bill became a law almost a year ago. And the results in Oklahoma have been astounding.
MARK WOODWARD, OKLAHOMA BUREAU OF NARCOTICS: The very first month this all passed, last April -- it passed April 6. At the end of April, we had a drop of about 40 percent in meth labs.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): What changed? Mark Woodward of the Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics said it turned out to be simple, in fact, as simple as making meth itself.
This, believe it or not, is all you need to make meth. Typical household products like matches and plastic tubs and household chemicals like drain cleaner. But the key ingredient for all of it is the common cold medicine pseudoephedrine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The rest of the chemicals is worthless if you don't have the pseudoephedrine. They need the pseudoephedrine tablets.
GRIFFIN: And sales of pseudoephedrine were soaring in Oklahoma, products like these being bought or stolen by the cartons. The solution was to take it off the shelves.
(on camera) So where is it now?
DANI LYNCH, PHARMACIST: We keep it behind the counter now, as the law dictates.
GRIFFIN: Since April 6 of last year, all pseudoephedrine tablets in Oklahoma can be sold only by a licensed pharmacist like Dani Lynch.
(on camera) So if anybody wants these, they can still get them. They can still see them -- but they've got to...
LYNCH: Come in and produce a driver's license, a valid driver's license. We fill out the form with their name, address, the amount of milligrams that they're purchasing, so we can keep track of that because they're only allowed nine grams for the month.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): Before the law, police were busting an average of 92 meth labs a month. Now that number is down to 19. Meth makers are forced to drive to neighboring states like Texas to buy pseudoephedrine. But those states are moving to pass similar laws.
Once Oklahoma's neighbors put pseudoephedrine behind the counter, Mark Woodward expects almost all of his state's meth labs to go out of business.
WOODWARD: What we've said all along is as good as the numbers are, they're only going to get better if these other states pass this law.
GRIFFIN: Linda Green and two of her daughters were there the day Oklahoma's legislature approved the bill. They were there the day the governor signed it.
GREEN: I felt like if there was anything that I could do to help the safety of the next trooper or the next law officer or the next wife or children of a law enforcement officer, that this was it. I had to -- I had to be active in getting something done about the meth problem that we were having statewide and even national.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Wow. Taking down the meth labs doesn't necessarily mean that less people are going to use meth, right?
GRIFFIN: No, and they're not saying that. The meth use is still very high in these areas. But they wanted to get rid of these labs because they are so dangerous, No. 1, to the kids of these meth users.
And No. 2, they take so much time to clean up in neighborhoods, in trailer parks or in the case of Nick Green, this guy was cooking meth in his own car. So they wanted to take away that toxic equation, free up the manpower to try to go after the bulk of the meth, which is still coming up from Mexico by couriers.
PHILLIPS: Let's back up a little bit. And why this is so popular and why so many teens are using meth. I know, even among friends of mine with kids this is something they're talking about -- they're talking about in classrooms more than marijuana and some of the other drugs.
GRIFFIN: Right. It's super cheap, relatively speaking. It's called the rural crack. It's spread quickly through rural areas and basically brought up through -- you know, by immigrants who have come from Mexico and biker gangs. So it's distributed just about everywhere. And like we've seen, it's pretty darn easy to make.
So it has become very popular among young kids, rural areas, economically depressed areas. And it's just infiltrated that whole environment.
PHILLIPS: Drew Griffin, another good in depth report. Thank you so much.
More now, a little bit of developing news on that plane that was grounded in New York. Chris Lawrence joining us with the details.
Is it getting ready to take off, Chris?
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's been grounded. Well, it's been diverted here to Chicago, here at O'Hare Airport in Chicago, Kyra. And we believe that in the next few hours that plane could be released and go on its way to San Francisco.
Right now, what we are hearing is that this was, in all accounts, a false alarm. What happened was the plane was diverted when there were reports of some suspicious materials on board. So it was diverted from its flight from -- heading to San Francisco. It was diverted here to Chicago.
Now what we are hearing is that a couple passengers became concerned when they noticed one of their fellow passengers had a couple vials of homeopathic medicine, an MP3 player and a cord for a laptop. Putting that all together, they thought that was somewhat suspicious. They alerted the flight crew. The plane was then diverted here to Chicago.
All the passengers got off the plane safely. And bomb and arson squad, went through the plane. The FAA was contacted. And they found nothing to indicate there was any kind of threat on that plane. And we believe that very soon that plane will be released to go on to San Francisco.
But it does kind of point out just how concerned people are now, that we are all traveling with a very heightened sense of security. And people are very vigilant in terms of looking at their fellow passengers and looking for things that may be suspicious, as we have all been directed to do by the Department of Homeland Security, by the FAA. We've been told to be more vigilant, and apparently, that's what led to this flight being diverted.
PHILLIPS: OK. Chris Lawrence, thank you so much. And I'm getting word now in just less than 15 minutes or so, we expect a live briefing from the Pentagon, with Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Joint Chiefs Chairman Richard Myers. We're going to bring that to you live as soon as it happens.
Also ahead, guarding America's border. Citizens who call themselves Minutemen go on patrol, but does the project work? We're going to talk with two of the organizers just ahead.
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PHILLIPS: Day or night, rain or shine, hundreds of volunteers are keeping watch along a stretch of the Arizona/Mexico border to try to stop illegal immigration dead in its tracks.
The month-long watch is known as the Minuteman Project, and volunteers say it's paying off. So much in fact, the group's founders are going before Congress next hour to deliver an ultimatum.
I'll talk to both of them in just a minute. But first, CNN's Soledad O'Brien explains the group's beef with the border.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CO-HOST, "AMERICAN MORNING" (voice-over): Nearly 900 volunteers have helped capture 315 illegal immigrants along the Mexico/Arizona border. That's what the all-volunteer Minuteman Project says it's accomplished since early April when the group began patrolling a 23-mile stretch of desert between Naco and Douglas.
U.S. border officials have doubts about the group's claims.
MICHAEL NICELY, TUCSON BORDER PATROL CHIEF: As far as them having an effect on stopping illegal immigration, it's been negligible. Any kind of official government presence in the south is a deterrent.
O'BRIEN: Still the project's organizers insist they've been successful. And they say they'll extend the program, which was supposed to end this week, until Congress improves border security.
CHRIS SIMCOX, MINUTEMAN PROJECT: We will not discontinue patrolling the border until the Congress fund and clear the way for the National Guard and/or specially trained military troops to -- to follow our model.
O'BRIEN: Minuteman patrols are now being planned for Texas, New Mexico and California. And discussions are under way to spread the program to northern border states like Michigan and Vermont.
One of the group's founders, Jim Gilchrest, says he'll lead an entirely new phase of the project, which will include protests against employers who use illegal immigrants. (END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Joining me now from Washington are the two group's founders, Jim Gilchrest and Chris Simcox. Gentlemen, thanks for joining me. Before you go before Congress.
Let me start with you, Jim. One of you just turning off your cell phone. I'm glad we won't have any distractions. That's good, unless it's important.
Jim, let's start with you and why you feel so strongly about the Minuteman Project.
JIM GILCHREST, MINUTEMAN PROJECT: After 10 years of pleading with congressional representatives and getting no -- absolutely no response regarding the lack of enforcement of immigration laws, I felt it was necessary to literally take care of the problem myself.
So I launched something called the Minuteman Project, which the primary purpose was to bring national awareness to the illegal alien invasion crisis and, secondarily, to show that physical presence on the border will seal that border, and we've been very successful in both of those.
PHILLIPS: Now, we heard from Michael Nicely, the Tucson border patrol chief. And he said, and I quote, "As far as them having an effect on stopping illegal immigration, it's been negligible." Chris, how do you know it's working?
SIMCOX: Well, we've been actually supported by the border patrol labor union in the Tucson sector, who completely refutes Michael Nicely's claims that we've gotten in the way or we -- that this has been negligent.
The rank and file field agents that I've been working with for 2 1/2 years in that area know that we've assisted them with almost 5,000 apprehensions of people from 26 different countries. And that's what the listeners need to know.
This is not just about poor migrant workers coming for a better life. This is the most glaring gap in national security that both the 9/11 Commission, the FBI, the CIA all admit that this is a clear and present danger. We must do something about it. And the citizens are showing that it can be done.
PHILLIPS: You talk about the threat. Jim, have you reported anybody or turned anyone in that is a known terrorist or someone that is known to have had relationships with a known terrorist?
GILCHREST: Not that we know of. There have been approximately 315 illegal aliens intercepted by border patrol from our observation and reporting activities. Whether they are terrorists, that is yet to be determined.
PHILLIPS: Chris, a number of these volunteers are armed. Why? SIMCOX: Because it's their right, and because we know, and I lived on the -- I've been living on the border in Cochise County for the last three years. You have drug dealers. You have vicious human smugglers, you know, who are engaged in slave trading on this border. It's -- it's immoral. But it's a dangerous place to be.
And we, as citizens, have the right to defend ourselves if attacked with lethal force on that border. Fortunately, no one has during this time. And we hope it continues that way.
PHILLIPS: But Chris it sounds like you're putting yourself even above the law and saying that the border patrol is simply not doing its job...
SIMCOX: No.
PHILLIPS: ... so you've taking it upon yourself to arm yourself. And what are you going to do? You're not supposed to engage in any type of violent, vigilante-type of work. You're just supposed to report them, correct? So what if you come in contact with a violent smuggler. There you are with a gun. What do you do?
SIMCOX: Well, we are aware of the laws of state of Arizona, and we would defend ourselves in an appropriate way within the law.
And so many people have tried to construe this as being above the law. Actually, it's a citizen's duty to assist law enforcement. And this is just a neighborhood watch group, the same as any other community in this country.
After all, the president himself asked Americans to be vigilant, alert and aware and to report suspicious activity to the proper authorities. You can't find any more suspicious activity than what we live with on that border every day. One point one million people walking through our back yards last year. That's unacceptable.
PHILLIPS: Chris, finally, wrap it up. What are you going to tell Congress?
SIMCOX: No compromise. We will continue to grow this effort. We will -- we have over 15,000 volunteers in the queue. We will hold a simultaneous four-southern border state initiative starting in the fall. Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, again, we'll continue over the summer, and California.
We're also moving to the northern border. We have four northern border states.
So it's no compromise. The only way you'll get citizens to leave the border at this point is to relieve us from duty with National Guard troops.
PHILLIPS: Chris Simcox, Jim Gilchrest, I wish we had more to talk about, but we will be doing it more in the next couple of days. We'll follow what happens today, of course, and revisit this tomorrow. Gentlemen, thank you. SIMCOX: Thanks.
GILCHREST: Thank you.
PHILLIPS: CNN is committed to providing the most reliable coverage of news that affects your security. Stay tuned to CNN for the latest information day and night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS (voice-over): Later on LIVE FROM, the prince and the paparazzi. Did the quest for the ultimate photo endanger Harry's life?
Later on LIVE FROM...
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You think you could make more money if you were a bigger jerk?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Probably, yes.
PHILLIPS: ... scientific proof that nice guys do finish last and get paid less than their jerky co-workers.
Tomorrow on LIVE FROM, it debuted with fanfare. But will the world's biggest airliner get off the ground? We'll follow its maiden flight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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