Return to Transcripts main page

Live From...

Al Zarqawi Speaks?; Review of Bush's Address

Aired April 29, 2005 - 13:32   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Going with plan B in Santa Maria, California. Prosecutors in the Michael Jackson child molestation case had planned to wind up today, but after testimony from Michael Jackson's ex-wife, Debbie Rowe, turned favorable to the defense, the prosecution team is calling new witnesses. They say they'll finish next Tuesday, maybe.
Police in suburban Atlanta stumped. After three fruitless days of searching, they've suspended the search for Jennifer Carol Wilbanks. The 32-year-old avid runner went out for a jog Tuesday night. Hasn't been seen since. She was to be married tomorrow. Police say the woman's fiance has taken a privately administered lie- detector test. Negotiations continue, however, for a second polygraph test conducted by state law enforcement authorities.

And it's not a budget yet, but it's starting to look a little bit like one. A $2.6 trillion -- with a 't' -- budget resolution for the next year passed both houses of Congress late last night. Written into it, $70 billion in tax cuts, and $35 billion in spending cuts, mostly in Medicaid.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Its authenticity still uncertain, but the purported Al Zarqawi tape, 18 minutes long, is typical in tone and rhetoric. One part is directed specifically at President Bush.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We pledge to God all you Bush, the dog, that you will not have tranquillity, nor will you ever be content and happy as long as we have blood flowing in our veins and beating hearts. We, God willing, are coming.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Well, here to shed a little light on the incendiary words is CNN senior Arab affairs editor Octavia Nasr. All right, is this a message being sent to followers, or perhaps to recruits, potential recruits?

OCTAVIA NASR, CNN SR. ARAB AFFAIRS EDITOR: Both, followers and recruits. He certainly has a clear message. He's telling them to step up the attacks, to stay strong.

As a matter of fact, the tape begins with another male voice announcing Sheikh Abu Musab Zarqawi in a new statement, which they entitled "strength, strength, oh Muslim people." Very interesting. A few things in there that are worthy of note. One is a date. He mentions an article that was published by "The Washington Post" on March 19th, and he, in his speech, mentioned that this is the month of March. So basically that tells us when that audio was taped, between March 19th and the end of March.

And also it sends a message about what Zarqawi likes as far as the attacks on U.S. military is concerned. He certainly likes the suicide attacks. He calls on his followers to step up these suicide attacks, and he specifies against U.S. convoys and checkpoints. Very interesting.

WHITFIELD: Now let's look at the image that we've been looking at, because this is a new image to most folks, but this was not necessarily an image that was associated with this tape. What can we learn about the evolution of his look? Because he seems as though he is a man of many faces.

NASR: Right. As we all know by now, the U.S. was very close to capturing Zarqawi last month, and this picture is an old one. It's a sketch that was drawn based on older pictures of Zarqawi. This is when he was much younger.

When you look at the new pictures that will come up in a second, you will see a Zarqawi that has gained weight, and a Zarqawi that has aged. You see a receding hairline there. Look at him. He's heavier, obviously, he's grown a beard, and look at his hair. It's thinning out.

These pictures were found in Falluja, where he was believed to have been until not long ago, and this is where the U.S. was very close to capturing him.

Now, the interesting thing about today's tape is the message. The message is about stepping up attacks. Messages previous to this one either were either about the Iraqi elections, for example. He was calling on his supporters to interrupt these elections and make sure that everyone who participated in voting or running for elections is an enemy and can be attacked. This one is a bit different in tone. He also talks to his followers about the possibility of the U.S. starting negotiation with them, and he says, if the U.S. is asking to talk to you, it's not because that you're friends, but it's because that they know that you've defeated them.

So basically, on the second anniversary of the fall of Baghdad, he's sending a message that, in his words, that the U.S. has lost so far, and it is because of these Mujahedeen, the suicide bombers, it's because of them and their efforts, and basically he's telling them stay strong and stay the course. What you're doing is right. You just have to do more of the same thing.

WHITFIELD: Octavia Nasr, thanks so much. And all of this of course with the caveat it still has not been authenticated, whether this tape is indeed that of Abu Musab Al Zarqawi.

All right, thanks so much -- Miles. O'BRIEN: Up next, the president's primetime push for his Social Security plan. Will it really make a difference in public opinion?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: President Bush didn't specifically address the budget proposal in last night's primetime televised press conference, but that's about the only thing reporters didn't throw at him. Iraq, education, gas prices, North Korea, the U.N. , all well-explored territory, including the plan he says will solve most of Social Security's funding problems.

Suzanne Malveaux at the White House with more on that. Hello, Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Miles.

Well, of course, President Bush is trying to shift the debate. He is really pivoting the discussion from talking about Social Security problems to Social Security solutions. President Bush today back on the road, earlier before a group of supporters in Falls Church, Virginia. And the president says he is embracing a plan that protects the lowest income workers, those who depend entirely when they retire on that Social Security check.

This plan also means, however, that the middle class and upper class will bear much of the burden for actually making up the shortfall. They will lose some of their benefits. Now, Mr. Bush says this plan, plus the creation of those private accounts, will make up for 40 -- rather 70 percent of the shortfall.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think the country needs to set this goal for future generations: that if you've worked all your life and paid into the Social Security system, you will not retire into poverty. And there's a way to make that happen, and that is to have the benefits for low-income workers, in a future system, grow faster than benefits for those who are better off.

If Congress were to enact that, that would go a long way towards making the system solvent for a younger generation of Americans. I have a duty to put ideas on the table. I'm putting them on the table. And I expect Republicans and Democrats to do the same kind of thing, and so do the American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: It was last night President Bush first introduced the plan that he is endorsing. It is called progressive indexing. And basically, the lowest income workers -- the formula for the benefits would be used with wages. Then the highest income workers, the formula they would use, inflation. That being said, basically their benefits would decrease. While the lower income workers would use the same formula, there would be no change there. But the big effect, of course, is going to be the middle class. They are expected to really take up much of the burden when it comes to that shortfall in Social Security.

Now of course, President Bush issued this challenge to Republicans and Democrats to come up with their own ideas, if they're challenging his. Clearly, Democrats were are not happy with his solution. As long as there are those carve-out accounts, those private accounts, within the Social Security plan, it is a non- starter. The Democratic leadership, rather, releasing a statement, saying, "All the president did was confirm that he will play for his risky privatization scheme by cutting the benefits of middle class seniors."

Republicans also, of course, are motivated by this, particularly moderate Republicans. Congressman Bill Thomas, chair of the House Weighs and Means Committee announced today that there will be a series of hearings. They'll conduct them every week until they've got legislation that's on the table by the beginning of June -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Suzanne Malveaux at the White House. Thank you very much -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right. Thanks, Miles.

Well, the president did reveal a bit more of his retirement reform plan last night. Today we wonder if he managed to change any minds out there.

Ken Rudin is the National Public Radio's political editor and he joins us from Washington. Good to see you, Ken.

KEN RUDIN, NPR POLITICAL EDITOR: Hi, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right, well the timing of this Q and A at a time when the president is seeing his lowest approval rating. You know, he addressed the notion of polls and what he feels about them, and he also, in this sound byte we're about to play, talked a little bit more about an issue he's most passionate about.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: You know, if a president tries to govern based upon polls, you're kind of like a dog chasing your tail. I don't think you can make good, sound decisions based upon polls. And I don't think the American people want a president who relies upon polls and focus groups to make decisions for the American people.

Social Security is a big issue, and it's an issue that we must address now. You see, the longer we wait, the more expensive the solution is going to be for a younger generation of Americans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: So, Ken, did he win any points on popularity or on the issue of Social Security?

RUDIN: Well, you could almost say that he's making his case in spite of the polls, not because of the polls because, after his 60-day barnstorming tour of the country, the poll numbers, or at least support for his Social Security overhaul plan, has even -- fallen even lower. So basically, that plus the problem of the John Bolton nomination, plus the problem of higher gas prices, plus the problem of the nuclear option in the Senate and Tom DeLay, he felt he had to go before the American public.

While, you know, he has always had this confidence in his ability to speak above Congress, directly to the American people. But, again, as you said, these numbers, these polling numbers, are probably the most alarming in his 51 months of his presidency.

WHITFIELD: And he has the ability of refraining from admitting to any mistakes. So he still stands by John Bolton, even though there's been an awful lot criticism. And he's standing by this Social Security pitch, which is also receiving a lot of criticism. You have to wonder -- what do you read into the fact that he is standing by these controversial issues and items on his agenda? What does it say about his presidency, its second term?

RUDIN: We've said from the beginning he's a very resolute man. And unfortunately for the president, the things he fought for in his first term, like tax cuts, were certainly more popular. A lot of Americans are very nervous about private or personal investments in Social Security. They look at what the stock market is doing, they say, do I want to take that risk? So they're very nervous about that.

They go to the gas pump, they see it's approaching $3.00 a gallon, they're nervous about that, too. And the president readily conceded last night that he has no plan, or at least no immediate plan for the lowering of prices. So you know, we always talk about his optimism and that he can always reach above, you know, partisanship and make things happen, but I think his task in this second administration, second term, is far more steeper.

WHITFIELD: NPR's political editor, Ken Rudin. Thanks so much.

RUDIN: Thanks a lot.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: The space shuttle Discovery will not take flight before July 12th and possibly later. That's an eight-week delay at least. This morning, NASA made it official some outstanding concerns about debris striking the orbiter as it hurtles toward space, prompting the NASA administrator to send the shuttle back to the hangar for some repairs.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL GRIFFIN, NASA ADMINISTRATOR: This is consistent with our overall approach to return to flight, which is that we're going to return to flight. We're not going to rush to flight. And we want it to be right. So we're doing what we need to do to ensure that.

(END VIDEO CLIP) O'BRIEN: The specific concern is ice that might form near the external oxygen pipe on the fuel tank. There's a joint there that is not covered by insulating foam. It's kind of an ice magnet. A thimble-sized piece of ice could do an awful lot of damage to a space shuttle.

Take a look at this testing video, which was done in the interim after the Columbia loss. That black area there is enough damage to the leading edge of the wing, the so-called reinforced carbon carbon, that it could be a big deal for the crew. So ice is a big concern.

Joining us for more on this and what's going on in general at the Kennedy Space Center is David Waters of our affiliate News 13 in Orlando.

David, good to have you with us. This is obviously, the new administrator -- this is his first big decision since becoming administrator, and he has erred on the side of caution clearly. The engineers there inside the program, I'm told, are very much in support of this decision, aren't they?

DAVID WATERS, CENTRAL FLORIDA NEWS 13: Yes, they are, miles. But the NASA administrator said, if he could have, he would have launched right now. He would have launched that May 22nd launch date. But what you were talking about there was that thimble-sized piece of ice. What shuttle managers and engineers found was something that was a five-inch long piece of ice that could have formed on this tank, and that could have led to a catastrophic error in the shuttle, something only they've just recently discovered because they've been so focused on foam; they just began looking a little bit more at ice and saw that even in the past the shuttle has been impacted by this.

O'BRIEN: All right. So that's interesting. They were so focused on foam, at this very late date they start looking at ice and say, oh, my goodness, we have a serious problem here.

In addition to this, there are some other problems inside that fuel tank that need to be addressed as well, correct?

WATERS: Right. There is a sensor in there that tells NASA how much fuel is onboard the space shuttle, and that sensor system has been going wrong. Now, engineers figured out it is not in the sensor system itself, but in some other connection. So they're working on that. They have to work on that at the space shuttle launch pad just a couple of miles from here. And then when they're done with that work, they have to roll the whole space shuttle off the launch pad, back into the giant vehicle-assembly building behind me, the shuttle's hangar, where it will get repaired for that problem right there with the fuel tank, and it will get repaired for the heater. Basically, what NASA is planning on doing, Miles, to fix the problem with the ice formation is putting a heater on the tank. So a lot of work to do here.

O'BRIEN: As you say, a lot of work to do. And while they have come up with a heater plan -- as a matter of fact, tanks which are being produced now already have those heaters installed. So this is a retrofit of a design that already exists, it still means a lot of work under some tough circumstances, as the vehicle is stacked.

Is it possible that this particular launch window, mid-July to the end of July, that NASA won't be able to make that one either.

WATERS: We will see, because as you know, Miles, this is a very, very complex vehicle, and this is the first time we would have had a space shuttle launch since Columbia almost two-and-a-half years ago. A lot of problems for them to fix before they can go fly, and the astronauts said today that they're very comfortable with the decision to delay the launch till mid-July. But if more problems crop up, of course, that deem the shuttle unsafe to fly, which it is right now, then NASA would have to delay again. But right now, the rescheduled date for America's return to flight is July 13th through July 31st.

O'BRIEN: All right, David Waters with our affiliate Central Florida New 13. Always appreciate having you drop by. Thanks very much.

WATERS: You bet.

O'BRIEN: Back with more in just a moment. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired April 29, 2005 - 13:32   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Going with plan B in Santa Maria, California. Prosecutors in the Michael Jackson child molestation case had planned to wind up today, but after testimony from Michael Jackson's ex-wife, Debbie Rowe, turned favorable to the defense, the prosecution team is calling new witnesses. They say they'll finish next Tuesday, maybe.
Police in suburban Atlanta stumped. After three fruitless days of searching, they've suspended the search for Jennifer Carol Wilbanks. The 32-year-old avid runner went out for a jog Tuesday night. Hasn't been seen since. She was to be married tomorrow. Police say the woman's fiance has taken a privately administered lie- detector test. Negotiations continue, however, for a second polygraph test conducted by state law enforcement authorities.

And it's not a budget yet, but it's starting to look a little bit like one. A $2.6 trillion -- with a 't' -- budget resolution for the next year passed both houses of Congress late last night. Written into it, $70 billion in tax cuts, and $35 billion in spending cuts, mostly in Medicaid.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Its authenticity still uncertain, but the purported Al Zarqawi tape, 18 minutes long, is typical in tone and rhetoric. One part is directed specifically at President Bush.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We pledge to God all you Bush, the dog, that you will not have tranquillity, nor will you ever be content and happy as long as we have blood flowing in our veins and beating hearts. We, God willing, are coming.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Well, here to shed a little light on the incendiary words is CNN senior Arab affairs editor Octavia Nasr. All right, is this a message being sent to followers, or perhaps to recruits, potential recruits?

OCTAVIA NASR, CNN SR. ARAB AFFAIRS EDITOR: Both, followers and recruits. He certainly has a clear message. He's telling them to step up the attacks, to stay strong.

As a matter of fact, the tape begins with another male voice announcing Sheikh Abu Musab Zarqawi in a new statement, which they entitled "strength, strength, oh Muslim people." Very interesting. A few things in there that are worthy of note. One is a date. He mentions an article that was published by "The Washington Post" on March 19th, and he, in his speech, mentioned that this is the month of March. So basically that tells us when that audio was taped, between March 19th and the end of March.

And also it sends a message about what Zarqawi likes as far as the attacks on U.S. military is concerned. He certainly likes the suicide attacks. He calls on his followers to step up these suicide attacks, and he specifies against U.S. convoys and checkpoints. Very interesting.

WHITFIELD: Now let's look at the image that we've been looking at, because this is a new image to most folks, but this was not necessarily an image that was associated with this tape. What can we learn about the evolution of his look? Because he seems as though he is a man of many faces.

NASR: Right. As we all know by now, the U.S. was very close to capturing Zarqawi last month, and this picture is an old one. It's a sketch that was drawn based on older pictures of Zarqawi. This is when he was much younger.

When you look at the new pictures that will come up in a second, you will see a Zarqawi that has gained weight, and a Zarqawi that has aged. You see a receding hairline there. Look at him. He's heavier, obviously, he's grown a beard, and look at his hair. It's thinning out.

These pictures were found in Falluja, where he was believed to have been until not long ago, and this is where the U.S. was very close to capturing him.

Now, the interesting thing about today's tape is the message. The message is about stepping up attacks. Messages previous to this one either were either about the Iraqi elections, for example. He was calling on his supporters to interrupt these elections and make sure that everyone who participated in voting or running for elections is an enemy and can be attacked. This one is a bit different in tone. He also talks to his followers about the possibility of the U.S. starting negotiation with them, and he says, if the U.S. is asking to talk to you, it's not because that you're friends, but it's because that they know that you've defeated them.

So basically, on the second anniversary of the fall of Baghdad, he's sending a message that, in his words, that the U.S. has lost so far, and it is because of these Mujahedeen, the suicide bombers, it's because of them and their efforts, and basically he's telling them stay strong and stay the course. What you're doing is right. You just have to do more of the same thing.

WHITFIELD: Octavia Nasr, thanks so much. And all of this of course with the caveat it still has not been authenticated, whether this tape is indeed that of Abu Musab Al Zarqawi.

All right, thanks so much -- Miles. O'BRIEN: Up next, the president's primetime push for his Social Security plan. Will it really make a difference in public opinion?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: President Bush didn't specifically address the budget proposal in last night's primetime televised press conference, but that's about the only thing reporters didn't throw at him. Iraq, education, gas prices, North Korea, the U.N. , all well-explored territory, including the plan he says will solve most of Social Security's funding problems.

Suzanne Malveaux at the White House with more on that. Hello, Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Miles.

Well, of course, President Bush is trying to shift the debate. He is really pivoting the discussion from talking about Social Security problems to Social Security solutions. President Bush today back on the road, earlier before a group of supporters in Falls Church, Virginia. And the president says he is embracing a plan that protects the lowest income workers, those who depend entirely when they retire on that Social Security check.

This plan also means, however, that the middle class and upper class will bear much of the burden for actually making up the shortfall. They will lose some of their benefits. Now, Mr. Bush says this plan, plus the creation of those private accounts, will make up for 40 -- rather 70 percent of the shortfall.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think the country needs to set this goal for future generations: that if you've worked all your life and paid into the Social Security system, you will not retire into poverty. And there's a way to make that happen, and that is to have the benefits for low-income workers, in a future system, grow faster than benefits for those who are better off.

If Congress were to enact that, that would go a long way towards making the system solvent for a younger generation of Americans. I have a duty to put ideas on the table. I'm putting them on the table. And I expect Republicans and Democrats to do the same kind of thing, and so do the American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: It was last night President Bush first introduced the plan that he is endorsing. It is called progressive indexing. And basically, the lowest income workers -- the formula for the benefits would be used with wages. Then the highest income workers, the formula they would use, inflation. That being said, basically their benefits would decrease. While the lower income workers would use the same formula, there would be no change there. But the big effect, of course, is going to be the middle class. They are expected to really take up much of the burden when it comes to that shortfall in Social Security.

Now of course, President Bush issued this challenge to Republicans and Democrats to come up with their own ideas, if they're challenging his. Clearly, Democrats were are not happy with his solution. As long as there are those carve-out accounts, those private accounts, within the Social Security plan, it is a non- starter. The Democratic leadership, rather, releasing a statement, saying, "All the president did was confirm that he will play for his risky privatization scheme by cutting the benefits of middle class seniors."

Republicans also, of course, are motivated by this, particularly moderate Republicans. Congressman Bill Thomas, chair of the House Weighs and Means Committee announced today that there will be a series of hearings. They'll conduct them every week until they've got legislation that's on the table by the beginning of June -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Suzanne Malveaux at the White House. Thank you very much -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right. Thanks, Miles.

Well, the president did reveal a bit more of his retirement reform plan last night. Today we wonder if he managed to change any minds out there.

Ken Rudin is the National Public Radio's political editor and he joins us from Washington. Good to see you, Ken.

KEN RUDIN, NPR POLITICAL EDITOR: Hi, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right, well the timing of this Q and A at a time when the president is seeing his lowest approval rating. You know, he addressed the notion of polls and what he feels about them, and he also, in this sound byte we're about to play, talked a little bit more about an issue he's most passionate about.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: You know, if a president tries to govern based upon polls, you're kind of like a dog chasing your tail. I don't think you can make good, sound decisions based upon polls. And I don't think the American people want a president who relies upon polls and focus groups to make decisions for the American people.

Social Security is a big issue, and it's an issue that we must address now. You see, the longer we wait, the more expensive the solution is going to be for a younger generation of Americans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: So, Ken, did he win any points on popularity or on the issue of Social Security?

RUDIN: Well, you could almost say that he's making his case in spite of the polls, not because of the polls because, after his 60-day barnstorming tour of the country, the poll numbers, or at least support for his Social Security overhaul plan, has even -- fallen even lower. So basically, that plus the problem of the John Bolton nomination, plus the problem of higher gas prices, plus the problem of the nuclear option in the Senate and Tom DeLay, he felt he had to go before the American public.

While, you know, he has always had this confidence in his ability to speak above Congress, directly to the American people. But, again, as you said, these numbers, these polling numbers, are probably the most alarming in his 51 months of his presidency.

WHITFIELD: And he has the ability of refraining from admitting to any mistakes. So he still stands by John Bolton, even though there's been an awful lot criticism. And he's standing by this Social Security pitch, which is also receiving a lot of criticism. You have to wonder -- what do you read into the fact that he is standing by these controversial issues and items on his agenda? What does it say about his presidency, its second term?

RUDIN: We've said from the beginning he's a very resolute man. And unfortunately for the president, the things he fought for in his first term, like tax cuts, were certainly more popular. A lot of Americans are very nervous about private or personal investments in Social Security. They look at what the stock market is doing, they say, do I want to take that risk? So they're very nervous about that.

They go to the gas pump, they see it's approaching $3.00 a gallon, they're nervous about that, too. And the president readily conceded last night that he has no plan, or at least no immediate plan for the lowering of prices. So you know, we always talk about his optimism and that he can always reach above, you know, partisanship and make things happen, but I think his task in this second administration, second term, is far more steeper.

WHITFIELD: NPR's political editor, Ken Rudin. Thanks so much.

RUDIN: Thanks a lot.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: The space shuttle Discovery will not take flight before July 12th and possibly later. That's an eight-week delay at least. This morning, NASA made it official some outstanding concerns about debris striking the orbiter as it hurtles toward space, prompting the NASA administrator to send the shuttle back to the hangar for some repairs.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL GRIFFIN, NASA ADMINISTRATOR: This is consistent with our overall approach to return to flight, which is that we're going to return to flight. We're not going to rush to flight. And we want it to be right. So we're doing what we need to do to ensure that.

(END VIDEO CLIP) O'BRIEN: The specific concern is ice that might form near the external oxygen pipe on the fuel tank. There's a joint there that is not covered by insulating foam. It's kind of an ice magnet. A thimble-sized piece of ice could do an awful lot of damage to a space shuttle.

Take a look at this testing video, which was done in the interim after the Columbia loss. That black area there is enough damage to the leading edge of the wing, the so-called reinforced carbon carbon, that it could be a big deal for the crew. So ice is a big concern.

Joining us for more on this and what's going on in general at the Kennedy Space Center is David Waters of our affiliate News 13 in Orlando.

David, good to have you with us. This is obviously, the new administrator -- this is his first big decision since becoming administrator, and he has erred on the side of caution clearly. The engineers there inside the program, I'm told, are very much in support of this decision, aren't they?

DAVID WATERS, CENTRAL FLORIDA NEWS 13: Yes, they are, miles. But the NASA administrator said, if he could have, he would have launched right now. He would have launched that May 22nd launch date. But what you were talking about there was that thimble-sized piece of ice. What shuttle managers and engineers found was something that was a five-inch long piece of ice that could have formed on this tank, and that could have led to a catastrophic error in the shuttle, something only they've just recently discovered because they've been so focused on foam; they just began looking a little bit more at ice and saw that even in the past the shuttle has been impacted by this.

O'BRIEN: All right. So that's interesting. They were so focused on foam, at this very late date they start looking at ice and say, oh, my goodness, we have a serious problem here.

In addition to this, there are some other problems inside that fuel tank that need to be addressed as well, correct?

WATERS: Right. There is a sensor in there that tells NASA how much fuel is onboard the space shuttle, and that sensor system has been going wrong. Now, engineers figured out it is not in the sensor system itself, but in some other connection. So they're working on that. They have to work on that at the space shuttle launch pad just a couple of miles from here. And then when they're done with that work, they have to roll the whole space shuttle off the launch pad, back into the giant vehicle-assembly building behind me, the shuttle's hangar, where it will get repaired for that problem right there with the fuel tank, and it will get repaired for the heater. Basically, what NASA is planning on doing, Miles, to fix the problem with the ice formation is putting a heater on the tank. So a lot of work to do here.

O'BRIEN: As you say, a lot of work to do. And while they have come up with a heater plan -- as a matter of fact, tanks which are being produced now already have those heaters installed. So this is a retrofit of a design that already exists, it still means a lot of work under some tough circumstances, as the vehicle is stacked.

Is it possible that this particular launch window, mid-July to the end of July, that NASA won't be able to make that one either.

WATERS: We will see, because as you know, Miles, this is a very, very complex vehicle, and this is the first time we would have had a space shuttle launch since Columbia almost two-and-a-half years ago. A lot of problems for them to fix before they can go fly, and the astronauts said today that they're very comfortable with the decision to delay the launch till mid-July. But if more problems crop up, of course, that deem the shuttle unsafe to fly, which it is right now, then NASA would have to delay again. But right now, the rescheduled date for America's return to flight is July 13th through July 31st.

O'BRIEN: All right, David Waters with our affiliate Central Florida New 13. Always appreciate having you drop by. Thanks very much.

WATERS: You bet.

O'BRIEN: Back with more in just a moment. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com