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Girls' Bodies Found; Pulpit Politics; Another big Arrest in Iraq
Aired May 09, 2005 - 13:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The bodies of two girls found today in a park near Chicago. We're live with the latest on this investigation.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Miles, "Democrats need to repent or resign." The caught-on-tape words of a pastor under fire for kicking out some of its congregation.
O'BRIEN: Who would abandon this beautiful little baby on a desolate road? Well, not the stray dog who may have saved her life. That is a LIVE FROM must this hour.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To me, I think it -- I think it's -- it's all about America, and it's all about freedom. And it's about how Americans feel about their freedom. It's what these horses represent to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: Ooh.
PHILLIPS: Diners overseas feasting on an icon of the American west courtesy of the U.S. government. Meet the people trying to save wild mustangs from the slaughterhouse.
O'BRIEN: I sure am glad Connery is at school still. From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Miles O'Brien.
PHILLIPS: And I'm Kyra Phillips. CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.
A missing children mystery may be solved in northern Illinois as a homicide investigation opens. The Associated Press now reports the two young girls found dead this morning in a park near the Wisconsin border are the same young girls reported missing last night.
Either way, authorities are looking for a monster. And the town of Zion, population 23,000, is dealing with the tragedy.
CNN's Keith Oppenheim following developments from our Chicago newsroom.
What do we know, starting from the weekend, Keith? KEITH OPPENHEIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, what we're hearing, Kyra, is that The Associated Press reporting that the Lake County coroner -- this is the county well north of Chicago -- the Lake County coroner has identified the two girls, saying that they are friends and that the two victims who had been reported missing Sunday night just before 9:00 are, indeed, these two bodies that were found.
The original report had been that of two 8-year-old -- two 8- year-old girls who disappeared on Sunday. Autopsies are scheduled for this afternoon. Police say they are investigating this as a homicide.
The police say that it was around 6:00 local time this morning that they got a call from someone who found these two bodies in a park. This is a park with a jogging and biking trail, a nature preserve. And the bodies were discovered in the area where you see in these pictures.
The superintendent of the schools in Zion, the Zion elementary school district, declined to identify the girls. But she did say that they are in the same second grade class at Beulah Park Elementary School. She also said that social workers and a crisis intervention team are in place to deal with this tragedy.
The location, again, is in Zion, Illinois. It's about 40 miles north of the city of Chicago right on Lake Michigan, and just near the Wisconsin border.
So more information now connecting the original report of two missing children to the discovery of these bodies in Zion -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Keith, do they believe that they were abducted or taken by someone they might know or a stranger?
OPPENHEIM: That information has not emerged yet as to how they came from being a missing children's case to two homicides.
PHILLIPS: All right. Keith Oppenheim, thanks so much -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: A woman slain, her toddler missing. State police in New Mexico are trying to find a boy, Justin Black -- there he is -- 16 months old. Yesterday afternoon police responded to a domestic dispute at Justin's mother's apartment.
Hours later, the mother was dead, the son gone. A man is being sought. He is 22-year-old Ivan Villa, described as the mother's husband but not the boy's father.
Villa reportedly has connections in Texas and California. He may be driving a grayish Ford Mustang, year 2000, New Mexico license plate, GBN 805. Please call the number on the screen there if you have any information about this man.
PHILLIPS: A wild car chase outside Los Angeles ends in a barrage of gunfire and a deputy shot.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) (GUNFIRE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Police fired on this SUV earlier this morning in Compton just after a pursuit. The suspect inside and a sheriff's deputy were struck by bullets. The deputy was not seriously hurt. The suspect is in stable condition at a local hospital.
Some people reported that bullets even hit their homes. An investigation is under way into that shooting.
O'BRIEN: The highway shootings case in Ohio may be retried in court. That story tops our news "Across America" right now.
A judge in Columbus declared a mistrial in the case against Charles McCoy Jr. The jury could not agree on whether McCoy was insane. McCoy has admitted to the shootings which killed a woman. The defense says he has untreated paranoid schizophrenia. Both sides in the case to meet tomorrow to determine what happens next.
In Liberty, Missouri, a frightening bus ride to school for students. Their bus crashed into two cars, killing the drivers. More than 20 elementary schoolchildren were hurt. The cause of the crash under investigation.
And in Atlanta, the infamous Atlanta child killings case re- opened after more than two decades. An area police chief believes the man blamed for most of the deaths, convicted killer Wayne Williams, is, in fact, innocent.
PHILLIPS: The pastor of a Baptist church in North Carolina denies expelling members who supported Democrat John Kerry for president. But a former deacon calls that denial false.
CNN's Bill Hemmer has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL HEMMER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Nine members of a North Carolina church say they were expelled from their congregation last week, apparently because of their political beliefs. They say the pastor, Chan Chandler, expected them to pledge their support for his political views. And when they refused, they were voted out.
REV. FRANKLIN GRAHAM, BILLY GRAHAM EVANGELICAL ASSN.: For a church to say you have to support one or the other, I don't know where the pastor was coming from on that.
HEMMER: Reverend Chandler denies actions were political. Church members point to comments he made during a sermon last October.
PASTOR CHAN CHANDLER, EAST WAYNESVILLE BAPTIST CHURCH: The question then comes in, in the Baptist Church, how do I vote? Let me just say this right now. If you vote for John Kerry this year, you need to repent or resign. You have been holding back God's church way too long. And I know I may get in trouble for saying that, but just pour it on.
HEMMER: Reverend Chandler did not address the issue during a sermon on Sunday. He did release a statement afterward, though, through his attorney, saying, "The church does not care about members' political preferences" and calling the controversy a great misunderstanding.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Former Deacon Frank Lowe tells CNN the church expelled him for supporting John Kerry. The church invited the expelled members back for yesterday's service. Lowe went with his lawyer.
O'BRIEN: Another big arrest, another allied offensive, and the suicide attacks just keep coming. Two more suicide car bombings targeted police at Army checkpoints in Baghdad today. Two officers killed, four civilians, wounding several others. Another bomb in an empty car killed two civilians near a power plant.
Now, the arrest I mentioned is a purported top aide to the terror kingpin Abu Musab al Zarqawi. CNN's Barbara Starr with that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): U.S. Officials now have revealed that last week they captured the man who planned several bomb attacks that hit Baghdad April 29, part of a wave of rising violence. There is hope the arrest will bring them closer to getting Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the Jordanian-born terrorist leader responsible for months of attacks.
The U.S. military estimates nearly 300 Iraqi civilians and security forces have been killed in the last 10 days. But senior officials insist their information is getting better. Each arrest now giving them more intelligence and more tips about Zarqawi.
BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: That intelligence allows you to plan future operations, which after conducting those operations also give you more intelligence. It's a virtuous cycle that's permitted us of late to take down a significant part of the Zarqawi network
STARR: The latest arrest? Mohammed Hamza al-Zubaydi is described by the U.S. as a prominent figure in the Zarqawi organization. Also captured in his home, letters, notes and sketches planning the assassination of a prominent Iraqi government official. The U.S. is not saying the name of that official.
The U.S. military clearly is ratcheting up its own information offensive. A new chart detailing Zarqawi's associates, killed, wanted and captured. And a U.S. military press release with the extraordinary statement that Zarqawi's captured driver told U.S. interrogators that Zarqawi became hysterical, Zarqawi did not know where he was on February 20 when he came close to being captured. The military has said detainee interrogation statements are classified intelligence.
So why now? One military officer told CNN, "We want to show people he is not 10 feet tall." Another said, "It's an effort to influence Iraqis."
(on camera): Even if Zarqawi is captured or killed, U.S. officials largely agree that alone will not end the insurgency. Already, U.S. intelligence is trying to identify the terrorist leaders who some day might take Zarqawi's place.
Barbara Starr, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: U.S. troops acting on so-called significant intelligence from some very brave folks killed at least 75 insurgents in the first day of a new campaign west of Baghdad. That comes from a U.S. commander who says the onslaught started Saturday, aimed largely at foreign fighters still supposedly pouring in from Syria. Coalition casualties so far include two dead Marines.
PHILLIPS: Well, getting all points of view out there is a LIVE FROM tradition.
O'BRIEN: But it's apparently not a big tradition inside the Catholic Church. Is the Vatican putting the chill on ideas? We'll talk about it next.
PHILLIPS: And taking the crime scene investigation deep. Our Dr. Sanjay Gupta kicks off his CSI series with quite a splash.
O'BRIEN: I wonder if there's any cello music down there.
And it's not just another dog story, Kyra. It's about the unwanted taking care of the unwanted, if you can follow my drift here. A stray pooch finds a -- well, you don't call it a stray baby, but an abandoned baby. What happens gets us all verklempt later on LIVE FROM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: The Vatican has lowered the boom on an American Jesuit magazine that published some views that oppose church doctrine. And Catholics around the world are complaining of a chilling effect.
The Reverend Thomas Reese, longtime editor of the New York-based weekly "America," got the heave-ho on Friday. For years he butted heads with the Vatican over hot-button issues such as gay priests, the use of condoms to stem the spread of AIDS, and whether pro-choice politicians should be denied the sacrament of communion. But now the debate has led to a dismissal.
John Allen covers the Vatican for CNN and the independent "National Catholic Reporter." He joins us from Rome.
John, good to have you back with us. JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Hi, Miles.
O'BRIEN: Is Father Reese a flaming liberal?
ALLEN: No, not by any stretch of the imagination. I mean, Tom Reese certainly be seen as on the left, but I think the profile he had in America was somebody who was striving to include all voices in the conversation.
I think America would be seen as pretty centrist. And, again, you know, trying to -- trying to make sure that the discussion went on.
So I think what you've got here, Miles, is a pretty basic difference of opinion about what the role of the Catholic journal of opinion should be. I think Father Reese in America would say it's a platform to let the debate go on. I think on the other side some American bishops and apparently the Vatican feel that if you have a Catholic journal that in this case is sponsored officially by a religious order -- that is, the Jesuits -- then its obligation, its primary obligation is to defend church teaching, not to give voice to criticism...
O'BRIEN: So real fundamental issues at stake here as to what these church organs do. Let's -- I want to share with you a quote. The incoming editor-in-chief of "America," Father Drew Christiansen, said this: "By inviting articles that cover different sides of disputed issues, Father Reese helped make "America" a forum for an intelligent discussion of questions facing the church and the country today."
What's the matter with a forum for intelligent discussion of questions facing the church and the country?
ALLEN: Well, I think the position that -- that, again, some American bishops who are apparently involved in this and the Vatican would take is the problem is you can create confusion about what the Catholic Church actually stands for. And that by including some of these points of view, you actually legitimize them as, you know, sort of acceptable Catholic -- Catholic positions. And that obviously is what they wanted to stop.
Now, the opposing view to that would be that these positions exist. That is, that, you know, these discussions, the one you ticked off at the top, things like whether or not condoms could be approved in the context of HIV-AIDS, what exactly the church's position on other issues of sexual morality, you know, there are real differences within the Catholic community on some of those questions, and they need to be talked out.
That's what "America" tried to do.
O'BRIEN: All right. Well, is it coincidental that we have a new pontiff in the Vatican now? Or was this all in work prior?
ALLEN: Oh, this goes back a number of years, actually. Apparently, the first concerns were voiced as many as five years ago. And there has been a lengthy sort of tripartite discussion between the American bishops, between the Vatican, and between the Jesuit superiors here in Rome and in the states.
And so -- and apparently, this was all sort of brought to a head in mid-March. That is, before then Cardinal Ratzinger was elected as Pope Benedict XVI.
On the other hand, I think it probably also ought to be said that this was all being handled by the office that then Cardinal Ratzinger led, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, so that presumably he signed off on all of this. And, therefore, I wouldn't expect much change now that he's been elected pope.
O'BRIEN: All right. So you could walk away, many Catholics might walk away from this with this with the impression that the Vatican is afraid of an honest debate over the issues.
ALLEN: Well, I think the Vatican's view, Miles, probably would be that there is going to be an honest debate of the issues in all kinds of places, including on our air, on CNN, in the editorial pages of "The New York Times," and so forth, but that the role of a Catholic publication, first and foremost, is to defend -- that is, present the arguments for -- the teachings of the church.
Now, obviously, you know, the people in America would tell you they never contradicted or challenged the teachings of the church. They simply tried to provide a forum in which those -- those teachings could be discussed.
(CROSSTALK)
O'BRIEN: And thus -- and thus, made it a lot more interesting reading. Don't you think?
ALLEN: Oh, sure. I mean, listen, you know, "America" had an influence, has an influence well beyond its actual readership precisely because it was seen as a place where intelligent, sophisticated, reasonable discussion could go on.
That's what's in the eyes of many people so very sad about this -- that, you know, "America" may no longer be able to do that. Now, obviously, the new editor, Father Drew Christiansen, whom I know, is going to want to try to maintain that reputation and maintain that profile as much as he can. But obviously this does send a bit of a chilling effect.
O'BRIEN: All right. John Allen with the "National Catholic Reporter." He covers the Vatican for us as well. Thank you -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Want to take you straight out to Los Angeles right now. The L.A. County sheriff, Lee Baca, is about to step up to -- that is actually not Lee Baca. But the sheriff is expected to step up to the podium in a minute, along with others, talking about that -- there is Lee Baca -- talking about the shootout that's under controversy now that happened in Compton. Let's listen in.
SHERIFF LEE BACA, LOS ANGELES COUNTY: ... and rather than just recite a scenario, I'm happy to answer any questions you might have.
QUESTION: Was the driver of the SUV armed?
BACA: Apparently not. And have you been told the name of the driver by -- at this point?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not officially.
BACA: A Mr. Winston Hayes (ph) -- is it Hayes (ph)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
BACA: OK. He's 44 years old. And his arrest record is essentially narcotics and some assaults. But we're looking at what extensiveness that might entail.
QUESTION: Do you know if he was under the influence at the time?
BACA: It's likely that he was under the influence because it's an unusual set of circumstances that brought him to our attention. A lady on the scene after the incident that is on tape informed us that he had been driving around the block for about four hours, and that, in effect, it appeared that he might be under the influence of drugs.
QUESTION: How was the deputy injured?
BACA: We're not sure how the deputy was injured. But it could be through friendly fire. And, therefore, we may be the causal part of what that injury is.
QUESTION: So it was a gunshot?
BACA: We believe so.
QUESTION: How many deputies were on the scene responding at that point?
BACA: I'm not sure as to how many deputies were on the scene, but I will say this, that 10 deputies had fired their weapons.
QUESTION: Why did those deputies decide to fire?
BACA: Well, the "why" is really the issue here, and I think that we're going to find out more about the why. At the same time, the activities of Mr. Hayes (ph) while he was driving his vehicle and then when he ironically for 12 minutes was involved in leading us to pursue him, at the same time he circled all the way back to where it all began, where the deputies were there on a prior -- on a prior note investigating the original reason for this call.
QUESTION: Under what circumstances are your deputies allowed to shoot?
BACA: Deputies may shoot in defense of their lives or the lives of their -- of the citizenry. And that's the conditions that are generally set forth.
QUESTION: So at this point do you have any idea why one of your -- 10 of your deputies, why they would all open fire?
BACA: I have the homicide investigative command person here, Captain Peevy (ph). And I have the Office of Independent Review here with me, headed up by Mr. Michael Gennaco. What we're going to look at is, what was the triggering point for the shooting? That's the key question right now.
There's two things that I will be very concerned about, tactics and the intensity of what was going on, particularly at the time where the shooting occurred. And then what preceded it.
QUESTION: Do you think your department needs to revise its policy of shooting at moving vehicles that the LAPD has recently?
BACA: If you look closely at the tape that's on the media side, you will find that the vehicle wasn't really moving when it was being shot at. And the question that we have to ask ourselves is, what were those conditions surrounding that vehicle as it was stopped?
QUESTION: Where was the suspect?
BACA: Driving the vehicle in...
QUESTION: So was he shot in the car?
BACA: He was shot in the car.
QUESTION: And how is the deputy doing?
BACA: The deputy is doing all right. The round hit the vest at the top part of the vest, and on the right side of his chest. And it doesn't appear to be an entry wound at all.
QUESTION: Backing up his vehicle towards the officer (INAUDIBLE)?
BACA: Well, I can't conclude what he was trying to do, obviously, because a man that would drive for four hours around the block obviously isn't very aware of what he's doing. And so the question of what is he intending to do, we don't know.
But we do believe that he was driving that vehicle rather dangerously during the time he was being chased. And in that process, we questioned, you know, what would he do if he were given the further opportunity to do it? I mean, that...
QUESTION: Do you think the policy should be looked at again?
BACA: The policy is not the question here. The pursuit -- this has nothing to do with the pursuit in the sense of the shooting side of it. It has to do with when he was stopped. And that's not a pursuit when a person is stopped.
QUESTION: Is shooting at a car?
BACA: Well, you can shoot at anything if the car is the sourcing of wherever the danger is. And I don't mean the car.
Remember, the original reason for this call was that not him circling around the block. The original reason for the call is the tying of his vehicle or a similar vehicle to a shooting incident and then a confirmation that there could have been someone that was hit.
So we initially, meaning the deputies, initially thought they were responding to what could have been some gang-related gunfire. That's what started this whole thing from their point of view.
Now, obviously people engage in drive-by shootings, don't stop when cops get there. They take off. And so I think there was this intensity level that was evolving here, and the pursuit as to the intensity level.
But the pursuit policy that we have is one of the strongest in America. And as a result, the shooting itself, as I see it, is not shooting at a moving vehicle in the sense of when it all began.
The vehicle did start to move after the shooting started. I saw that on the tape. And I think that maybe the shooting caused the vehicle to move. But it was not a shooting during a pursuit. It was a shooting at a stationary vehicle.
Now, if the person driving the vehicle -- which we later discovered did not have -- but if the person driving the vehicle had a weapon, and the deputies thought he had that weapon, and then the shooting evolved from that, then that's the key point. And that has nothing to do with the pursuit policy.
QUESTION: So what have deputies (INAUDIBLE)?
BACA: Well, the deputies are going to say a lot of things. You know, and it's an interesting way to respond to what did they say.
They haven't really said much to me obviously because they're being interviewed by a variety of detectives from our homicide bureau. And the Office of Independent Review is watching those interviews.
At the same time, each one will tell their own story. And I think that this is going to be another part of a future piece of information that we'll all be interested in listening to.
QUESTION: One of your watch commanders from the station down there said that the reason why the officers fired was because the suspect was trying to run them down...
BACA: No field commander -- and I'm going to say this -- in all of my 40 years in law enforcement, I have interviewed 135 deputies involved in shootings. And no field commander can speak for why a deputy has made that critical decision to shoot. And I'm going to repudiate whatever anybody says about why a deputy would do something such as shoot his weapon until that deputy speaks for himself.
QUESTION: Understood. Accepting that, are you now saying that the officers there didn't think that this guy was trying to run them down?
BACA: I have no idea one way or the other as to why and what the officers were thinking at the time. Suffice it to say, there is an intensity level.
This is a suspect who is leading him on a chase. And then the suspect circles back to the origin of when that suspect was first encountered by the deputies, and there's an intensity level that leads to what decisions subsequently will be made by deputies. That's the key piece of information: what is the intensity and what were the tactics relative to those intensities?
PHILLIPS: L.A. County sheriff Lee Baca there addressing reporters.
Finally finding out more about that shooting that we've been talking about throughout the day. It was a stringer who caught the following videotape of a slow-speed pursuit.
This is what happened in Compton, California. A call came in to police about a possible shooting. They responded to the scene, came across this white SUV. That was the reported car in question when this took place. And when he saw police, a slow chase did take place.
We're finding out now from the sheriff that evidently this same SUV involved in this incident had been circling the block here for four hours. Forty-four-year-old Winston Hayes (ph) is the man that was driving the white SUV that you see here. Police say he does have a rap sheet.
They think possibly he might have been involved in a drive-by shooting. And they also believe he was under the influence of drugs.
The chase took about 12 minutes. Police, once again, cornered him in this neighborhood. Ten deputies opened fire on this car.
Now, probably the most important information that we found out from the sheriff just moments ago, this suspect, this alleged gunman, did not have a gun on him or a gun in this car. An investigation now under way to find out why deputies opened fire on this car, why 10 of them opened fire. And also, that deputy that was shot, the sheriff confirming possibly it was friendly fire.
We will continue to follow the outcome of this shooting that took place in Compton, California. We'll be back after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired May 9, 2005 - 13:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The bodies of two girls found today in a park near Chicago. We're live with the latest on this investigation.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Miles, "Democrats need to repent or resign." The caught-on-tape words of a pastor under fire for kicking out some of its congregation.
O'BRIEN: Who would abandon this beautiful little baby on a desolate road? Well, not the stray dog who may have saved her life. That is a LIVE FROM must this hour.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To me, I think it -- I think it's -- it's all about America, and it's all about freedom. And it's about how Americans feel about their freedom. It's what these horses represent to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: Ooh.
PHILLIPS: Diners overseas feasting on an icon of the American west courtesy of the U.S. government. Meet the people trying to save wild mustangs from the slaughterhouse.
O'BRIEN: I sure am glad Connery is at school still. From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Miles O'Brien.
PHILLIPS: And I'm Kyra Phillips. CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.
A missing children mystery may be solved in northern Illinois as a homicide investigation opens. The Associated Press now reports the two young girls found dead this morning in a park near the Wisconsin border are the same young girls reported missing last night.
Either way, authorities are looking for a monster. And the town of Zion, population 23,000, is dealing with the tragedy.
CNN's Keith Oppenheim following developments from our Chicago newsroom.
What do we know, starting from the weekend, Keith? KEITH OPPENHEIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, what we're hearing, Kyra, is that The Associated Press reporting that the Lake County coroner -- this is the county well north of Chicago -- the Lake County coroner has identified the two girls, saying that they are friends and that the two victims who had been reported missing Sunday night just before 9:00 are, indeed, these two bodies that were found.
The original report had been that of two 8-year-old -- two 8- year-old girls who disappeared on Sunday. Autopsies are scheduled for this afternoon. Police say they are investigating this as a homicide.
The police say that it was around 6:00 local time this morning that they got a call from someone who found these two bodies in a park. This is a park with a jogging and biking trail, a nature preserve. And the bodies were discovered in the area where you see in these pictures.
The superintendent of the schools in Zion, the Zion elementary school district, declined to identify the girls. But she did say that they are in the same second grade class at Beulah Park Elementary School. She also said that social workers and a crisis intervention team are in place to deal with this tragedy.
The location, again, is in Zion, Illinois. It's about 40 miles north of the city of Chicago right on Lake Michigan, and just near the Wisconsin border.
So more information now connecting the original report of two missing children to the discovery of these bodies in Zion -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Keith, do they believe that they were abducted or taken by someone they might know or a stranger?
OPPENHEIM: That information has not emerged yet as to how they came from being a missing children's case to two homicides.
PHILLIPS: All right. Keith Oppenheim, thanks so much -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: A woman slain, her toddler missing. State police in New Mexico are trying to find a boy, Justin Black -- there he is -- 16 months old. Yesterday afternoon police responded to a domestic dispute at Justin's mother's apartment.
Hours later, the mother was dead, the son gone. A man is being sought. He is 22-year-old Ivan Villa, described as the mother's husband but not the boy's father.
Villa reportedly has connections in Texas and California. He may be driving a grayish Ford Mustang, year 2000, New Mexico license plate, GBN 805. Please call the number on the screen there if you have any information about this man.
PHILLIPS: A wild car chase outside Los Angeles ends in a barrage of gunfire and a deputy shot.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) (GUNFIRE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Police fired on this SUV earlier this morning in Compton just after a pursuit. The suspect inside and a sheriff's deputy were struck by bullets. The deputy was not seriously hurt. The suspect is in stable condition at a local hospital.
Some people reported that bullets even hit their homes. An investigation is under way into that shooting.
O'BRIEN: The highway shootings case in Ohio may be retried in court. That story tops our news "Across America" right now.
A judge in Columbus declared a mistrial in the case against Charles McCoy Jr. The jury could not agree on whether McCoy was insane. McCoy has admitted to the shootings which killed a woman. The defense says he has untreated paranoid schizophrenia. Both sides in the case to meet tomorrow to determine what happens next.
In Liberty, Missouri, a frightening bus ride to school for students. Their bus crashed into two cars, killing the drivers. More than 20 elementary schoolchildren were hurt. The cause of the crash under investigation.
And in Atlanta, the infamous Atlanta child killings case re- opened after more than two decades. An area police chief believes the man blamed for most of the deaths, convicted killer Wayne Williams, is, in fact, innocent.
PHILLIPS: The pastor of a Baptist church in North Carolina denies expelling members who supported Democrat John Kerry for president. But a former deacon calls that denial false.
CNN's Bill Hemmer has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL HEMMER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Nine members of a North Carolina church say they were expelled from their congregation last week, apparently because of their political beliefs. They say the pastor, Chan Chandler, expected them to pledge their support for his political views. And when they refused, they were voted out.
REV. FRANKLIN GRAHAM, BILLY GRAHAM EVANGELICAL ASSN.: For a church to say you have to support one or the other, I don't know where the pastor was coming from on that.
HEMMER: Reverend Chandler denies actions were political. Church members point to comments he made during a sermon last October.
PASTOR CHAN CHANDLER, EAST WAYNESVILLE BAPTIST CHURCH: The question then comes in, in the Baptist Church, how do I vote? Let me just say this right now. If you vote for John Kerry this year, you need to repent or resign. You have been holding back God's church way too long. And I know I may get in trouble for saying that, but just pour it on.
HEMMER: Reverend Chandler did not address the issue during a sermon on Sunday. He did release a statement afterward, though, through his attorney, saying, "The church does not care about members' political preferences" and calling the controversy a great misunderstanding.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Former Deacon Frank Lowe tells CNN the church expelled him for supporting John Kerry. The church invited the expelled members back for yesterday's service. Lowe went with his lawyer.
O'BRIEN: Another big arrest, another allied offensive, and the suicide attacks just keep coming. Two more suicide car bombings targeted police at Army checkpoints in Baghdad today. Two officers killed, four civilians, wounding several others. Another bomb in an empty car killed two civilians near a power plant.
Now, the arrest I mentioned is a purported top aide to the terror kingpin Abu Musab al Zarqawi. CNN's Barbara Starr with that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): U.S. Officials now have revealed that last week they captured the man who planned several bomb attacks that hit Baghdad April 29, part of a wave of rising violence. There is hope the arrest will bring them closer to getting Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the Jordanian-born terrorist leader responsible for months of attacks.
The U.S. military estimates nearly 300 Iraqi civilians and security forces have been killed in the last 10 days. But senior officials insist their information is getting better. Each arrest now giving them more intelligence and more tips about Zarqawi.
BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: That intelligence allows you to plan future operations, which after conducting those operations also give you more intelligence. It's a virtuous cycle that's permitted us of late to take down a significant part of the Zarqawi network
STARR: The latest arrest? Mohammed Hamza al-Zubaydi is described by the U.S. as a prominent figure in the Zarqawi organization. Also captured in his home, letters, notes and sketches planning the assassination of a prominent Iraqi government official. The U.S. is not saying the name of that official.
The U.S. military clearly is ratcheting up its own information offensive. A new chart detailing Zarqawi's associates, killed, wanted and captured. And a U.S. military press release with the extraordinary statement that Zarqawi's captured driver told U.S. interrogators that Zarqawi became hysterical, Zarqawi did not know where he was on February 20 when he came close to being captured. The military has said detainee interrogation statements are classified intelligence.
So why now? One military officer told CNN, "We want to show people he is not 10 feet tall." Another said, "It's an effort to influence Iraqis."
(on camera): Even if Zarqawi is captured or killed, U.S. officials largely agree that alone will not end the insurgency. Already, U.S. intelligence is trying to identify the terrorist leaders who some day might take Zarqawi's place.
Barbara Starr, CNN, Washington.
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O'BRIEN: U.S. troops acting on so-called significant intelligence from some very brave folks killed at least 75 insurgents in the first day of a new campaign west of Baghdad. That comes from a U.S. commander who says the onslaught started Saturday, aimed largely at foreign fighters still supposedly pouring in from Syria. Coalition casualties so far include two dead Marines.
PHILLIPS: Well, getting all points of view out there is a LIVE FROM tradition.
O'BRIEN: But it's apparently not a big tradition inside the Catholic Church. Is the Vatican putting the chill on ideas? We'll talk about it next.
PHILLIPS: And taking the crime scene investigation deep. Our Dr. Sanjay Gupta kicks off his CSI series with quite a splash.
O'BRIEN: I wonder if there's any cello music down there.
And it's not just another dog story, Kyra. It's about the unwanted taking care of the unwanted, if you can follow my drift here. A stray pooch finds a -- well, you don't call it a stray baby, but an abandoned baby. What happens gets us all verklempt later on LIVE FROM.
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O'BRIEN: The Vatican has lowered the boom on an American Jesuit magazine that published some views that oppose church doctrine. And Catholics around the world are complaining of a chilling effect.
The Reverend Thomas Reese, longtime editor of the New York-based weekly "America," got the heave-ho on Friday. For years he butted heads with the Vatican over hot-button issues such as gay priests, the use of condoms to stem the spread of AIDS, and whether pro-choice politicians should be denied the sacrament of communion. But now the debate has led to a dismissal.
John Allen covers the Vatican for CNN and the independent "National Catholic Reporter." He joins us from Rome.
John, good to have you back with us. JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Hi, Miles.
O'BRIEN: Is Father Reese a flaming liberal?
ALLEN: No, not by any stretch of the imagination. I mean, Tom Reese certainly be seen as on the left, but I think the profile he had in America was somebody who was striving to include all voices in the conversation.
I think America would be seen as pretty centrist. And, again, you know, trying to -- trying to make sure that the discussion went on.
So I think what you've got here, Miles, is a pretty basic difference of opinion about what the role of the Catholic journal of opinion should be. I think Father Reese in America would say it's a platform to let the debate go on. I think on the other side some American bishops and apparently the Vatican feel that if you have a Catholic journal that in this case is sponsored officially by a religious order -- that is, the Jesuits -- then its obligation, its primary obligation is to defend church teaching, not to give voice to criticism...
O'BRIEN: So real fundamental issues at stake here as to what these church organs do. Let's -- I want to share with you a quote. The incoming editor-in-chief of "America," Father Drew Christiansen, said this: "By inviting articles that cover different sides of disputed issues, Father Reese helped make "America" a forum for an intelligent discussion of questions facing the church and the country today."
What's the matter with a forum for intelligent discussion of questions facing the church and the country?
ALLEN: Well, I think the position that -- that, again, some American bishops who are apparently involved in this and the Vatican would take is the problem is you can create confusion about what the Catholic Church actually stands for. And that by including some of these points of view, you actually legitimize them as, you know, sort of acceptable Catholic -- Catholic positions. And that obviously is what they wanted to stop.
Now, the opposing view to that would be that these positions exist. That is, that, you know, these discussions, the one you ticked off at the top, things like whether or not condoms could be approved in the context of HIV-AIDS, what exactly the church's position on other issues of sexual morality, you know, there are real differences within the Catholic community on some of those questions, and they need to be talked out.
That's what "America" tried to do.
O'BRIEN: All right. Well, is it coincidental that we have a new pontiff in the Vatican now? Or was this all in work prior?
ALLEN: Oh, this goes back a number of years, actually. Apparently, the first concerns were voiced as many as five years ago. And there has been a lengthy sort of tripartite discussion between the American bishops, between the Vatican, and between the Jesuit superiors here in Rome and in the states.
And so -- and apparently, this was all sort of brought to a head in mid-March. That is, before then Cardinal Ratzinger was elected as Pope Benedict XVI.
On the other hand, I think it probably also ought to be said that this was all being handled by the office that then Cardinal Ratzinger led, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, so that presumably he signed off on all of this. And, therefore, I wouldn't expect much change now that he's been elected pope.
O'BRIEN: All right. So you could walk away, many Catholics might walk away from this with this with the impression that the Vatican is afraid of an honest debate over the issues.
ALLEN: Well, I think the Vatican's view, Miles, probably would be that there is going to be an honest debate of the issues in all kinds of places, including on our air, on CNN, in the editorial pages of "The New York Times," and so forth, but that the role of a Catholic publication, first and foremost, is to defend -- that is, present the arguments for -- the teachings of the church.
Now, obviously, you know, the people in America would tell you they never contradicted or challenged the teachings of the church. They simply tried to provide a forum in which those -- those teachings could be discussed.
(CROSSTALK)
O'BRIEN: And thus -- and thus, made it a lot more interesting reading. Don't you think?
ALLEN: Oh, sure. I mean, listen, you know, "America" had an influence, has an influence well beyond its actual readership precisely because it was seen as a place where intelligent, sophisticated, reasonable discussion could go on.
That's what's in the eyes of many people so very sad about this -- that, you know, "America" may no longer be able to do that. Now, obviously, the new editor, Father Drew Christiansen, whom I know, is going to want to try to maintain that reputation and maintain that profile as much as he can. But obviously this does send a bit of a chilling effect.
O'BRIEN: All right. John Allen with the "National Catholic Reporter." He covers the Vatican for us as well. Thank you -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Want to take you straight out to Los Angeles right now. The L.A. County sheriff, Lee Baca, is about to step up to -- that is actually not Lee Baca. But the sheriff is expected to step up to the podium in a minute, along with others, talking about that -- there is Lee Baca -- talking about the shootout that's under controversy now that happened in Compton. Let's listen in.
SHERIFF LEE BACA, LOS ANGELES COUNTY: ... and rather than just recite a scenario, I'm happy to answer any questions you might have.
QUESTION: Was the driver of the SUV armed?
BACA: Apparently not. And have you been told the name of the driver by -- at this point?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not officially.
BACA: A Mr. Winston Hayes (ph) -- is it Hayes (ph)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
BACA: OK. He's 44 years old. And his arrest record is essentially narcotics and some assaults. But we're looking at what extensiveness that might entail.
QUESTION: Do you know if he was under the influence at the time?
BACA: It's likely that he was under the influence because it's an unusual set of circumstances that brought him to our attention. A lady on the scene after the incident that is on tape informed us that he had been driving around the block for about four hours, and that, in effect, it appeared that he might be under the influence of drugs.
QUESTION: How was the deputy injured?
BACA: We're not sure how the deputy was injured. But it could be through friendly fire. And, therefore, we may be the causal part of what that injury is.
QUESTION: So it was a gunshot?
BACA: We believe so.
QUESTION: How many deputies were on the scene responding at that point?
BACA: I'm not sure as to how many deputies were on the scene, but I will say this, that 10 deputies had fired their weapons.
QUESTION: Why did those deputies decide to fire?
BACA: Well, the "why" is really the issue here, and I think that we're going to find out more about the why. At the same time, the activities of Mr. Hayes (ph) while he was driving his vehicle and then when he ironically for 12 minutes was involved in leading us to pursue him, at the same time he circled all the way back to where it all began, where the deputies were there on a prior -- on a prior note investigating the original reason for this call.
QUESTION: Under what circumstances are your deputies allowed to shoot?
BACA: Deputies may shoot in defense of their lives or the lives of their -- of the citizenry. And that's the conditions that are generally set forth.
QUESTION: So at this point do you have any idea why one of your -- 10 of your deputies, why they would all open fire?
BACA: I have the homicide investigative command person here, Captain Peevy (ph). And I have the Office of Independent Review here with me, headed up by Mr. Michael Gennaco. What we're going to look at is, what was the triggering point for the shooting? That's the key question right now.
There's two things that I will be very concerned about, tactics and the intensity of what was going on, particularly at the time where the shooting occurred. And then what preceded it.
QUESTION: Do you think your department needs to revise its policy of shooting at moving vehicles that the LAPD has recently?
BACA: If you look closely at the tape that's on the media side, you will find that the vehicle wasn't really moving when it was being shot at. And the question that we have to ask ourselves is, what were those conditions surrounding that vehicle as it was stopped?
QUESTION: Where was the suspect?
BACA: Driving the vehicle in...
QUESTION: So was he shot in the car?
BACA: He was shot in the car.
QUESTION: And how is the deputy doing?
BACA: The deputy is doing all right. The round hit the vest at the top part of the vest, and on the right side of his chest. And it doesn't appear to be an entry wound at all.
QUESTION: Backing up his vehicle towards the officer (INAUDIBLE)?
BACA: Well, I can't conclude what he was trying to do, obviously, because a man that would drive for four hours around the block obviously isn't very aware of what he's doing. And so the question of what is he intending to do, we don't know.
But we do believe that he was driving that vehicle rather dangerously during the time he was being chased. And in that process, we questioned, you know, what would he do if he were given the further opportunity to do it? I mean, that...
QUESTION: Do you think the policy should be looked at again?
BACA: The policy is not the question here. The pursuit -- this has nothing to do with the pursuit in the sense of the shooting side of it. It has to do with when he was stopped. And that's not a pursuit when a person is stopped.
QUESTION: Is shooting at a car?
BACA: Well, you can shoot at anything if the car is the sourcing of wherever the danger is. And I don't mean the car.
Remember, the original reason for this call was that not him circling around the block. The original reason for the call is the tying of his vehicle or a similar vehicle to a shooting incident and then a confirmation that there could have been someone that was hit.
So we initially, meaning the deputies, initially thought they were responding to what could have been some gang-related gunfire. That's what started this whole thing from their point of view.
Now, obviously people engage in drive-by shootings, don't stop when cops get there. They take off. And so I think there was this intensity level that was evolving here, and the pursuit as to the intensity level.
But the pursuit policy that we have is one of the strongest in America. And as a result, the shooting itself, as I see it, is not shooting at a moving vehicle in the sense of when it all began.
The vehicle did start to move after the shooting started. I saw that on the tape. And I think that maybe the shooting caused the vehicle to move. But it was not a shooting during a pursuit. It was a shooting at a stationary vehicle.
Now, if the person driving the vehicle -- which we later discovered did not have -- but if the person driving the vehicle had a weapon, and the deputies thought he had that weapon, and then the shooting evolved from that, then that's the key point. And that has nothing to do with the pursuit policy.
QUESTION: So what have deputies (INAUDIBLE)?
BACA: Well, the deputies are going to say a lot of things. You know, and it's an interesting way to respond to what did they say.
They haven't really said much to me obviously because they're being interviewed by a variety of detectives from our homicide bureau. And the Office of Independent Review is watching those interviews.
At the same time, each one will tell their own story. And I think that this is going to be another part of a future piece of information that we'll all be interested in listening to.
QUESTION: One of your watch commanders from the station down there said that the reason why the officers fired was because the suspect was trying to run them down...
BACA: No field commander -- and I'm going to say this -- in all of my 40 years in law enforcement, I have interviewed 135 deputies involved in shootings. And no field commander can speak for why a deputy has made that critical decision to shoot. And I'm going to repudiate whatever anybody says about why a deputy would do something such as shoot his weapon until that deputy speaks for himself.
QUESTION: Understood. Accepting that, are you now saying that the officers there didn't think that this guy was trying to run them down?
BACA: I have no idea one way or the other as to why and what the officers were thinking at the time. Suffice it to say, there is an intensity level.
This is a suspect who is leading him on a chase. And then the suspect circles back to the origin of when that suspect was first encountered by the deputies, and there's an intensity level that leads to what decisions subsequently will be made by deputies. That's the key piece of information: what is the intensity and what were the tactics relative to those intensities?
PHILLIPS: L.A. County sheriff Lee Baca there addressing reporters.
Finally finding out more about that shooting that we've been talking about throughout the day. It was a stringer who caught the following videotape of a slow-speed pursuit.
This is what happened in Compton, California. A call came in to police about a possible shooting. They responded to the scene, came across this white SUV. That was the reported car in question when this took place. And when he saw police, a slow chase did take place.
We're finding out now from the sheriff that evidently this same SUV involved in this incident had been circling the block here for four hours. Forty-four-year-old Winston Hayes (ph) is the man that was driving the white SUV that you see here. Police say he does have a rap sheet.
They think possibly he might have been involved in a drive-by shooting. And they also believe he was under the influence of drugs.
The chase took about 12 minutes. Police, once again, cornered him in this neighborhood. Ten deputies opened fire on this car.
Now, probably the most important information that we found out from the sheriff just moments ago, this suspect, this alleged gunman, did not have a gun on him or a gun in this car. An investigation now under way to find out why deputies opened fire on this car, why 10 of them opened fire. And also, that deputy that was shot, the sheriff confirming possibly it was friendly fire.
We will continue to follow the outcome of this shooting that took place in Compton, California. We'll be back after a quick break.
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