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Police May be Close to Naming Suspect in Stabbings of Two Girls; Counterfeit Police Badges Seized, Russian National Arrested

Aired May 10, 2005 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MILES O'BRIEN, CO-HOST: The Atlanta courthouse shooter and former fugitive from justice, Brian Nichols, back in court as we speak. We'll be live with the latest.
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Chris Lawrence, live in the small town of Zion, Illinois, where police may be getting closer to naming a suspect in the brutal stabbings of two little girls.

BETTY NGUYEN, CO-HOST: "Security Watch" this hour. They are calling it the mother lode. A huge stash of fake security badges is found. We have new developments live from New York.

O'BRIEN: NASA, the military, and Cisco systems, all expertly hacked. Who was behind it and what's being done to fix the problem? Details coming up.

From the CNN center, our own mission control, I'm Miles O'Brien. It is Tuesday, May 10.

NGUYEN: And I'm Betty Nguyen, in for Kyra Phillips today. CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.

O'BRIEN: And we begin this hour with murder and mourning in Zion and potentially, reportedly, an arrest.

A little more than a day after the bodies of two best friends and second graders were found in a wooded corner of Zion, Illinois, north of Chicago, police confirming to CNN now they consider one of the girls' fathers a person of interest. And there's a newspaper report that charges are being drawn up against an unidentified suspect.

Eight-year-old Laura Hobbs, 9-year-old Krystal Tobias, were last seen alive on Sunday afternoon. Today, their tight-knit community, a city founded as a religious utopia, is shattered, naturally.

CNN's Chris Lawrence is there -- Chris.

LAWRENCE: Miles, everybody is just waiting to find out what's going to happen with the police investigation. As you said, right now, what we believe is that the father of Laura Hobbs, Jerry Hobbs, has been looked as a person of interest in this case. There is a separate report that says a suspect could be named and charged some time today. I spoke with the coroner just a few minutes ago, and he seemed to think that something will happen by the end of the day today. Now, to give you a little background, we've been talking about this story a lot, but to bring you up to date on what's been happening here. These are two little girls, 8 years old, 9 years old. They're second graders, best friends, Krystal Tobias and Laura Hobbs.

They were playing Sunday. A lot of neighbors saw them outside, riding their bikes, swinging on a hammock. They were supposed to be home about 7 p.m. on Sunday. When they didn't show up, their parents called in, said, "Hey, our daughters are missing. Something's wrong."

It didn't take long. By the next morning, someone walking through a thickly wooded section of a park, very close to where they go to school and where they live, he found the bodies of both girls. And the coroner says they were stabbed to death, stabbed multiple times and then left for dead in this part of the park.

Since then, it has just been terrifying for the other parents and kids who live here. A lot of parents kept their kids home from school today. Those that did make it to school were literally walked to the door by their parents. Just so worried about -- wondering if someone is out there who can harm their children.

So everyone will be paying very close attention to see where this investigation goes from here -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Chris, there are some reports out that one of the fathers discovered the bodies. Is that -- have we been able to pin that one down?

LAWRENCE: Yes, we're still trying to confirm that. What we have been hearing is that they have been talking to the father of Laura Hobbs, from very shortly after the bodies were found, around 6 in the morning, on Monday.

So it is possible that that is true. We have not been able to confirm it. What we do know is the police have been in contact with him from shortly after the point where the bodies were found.

O'BRIEN: All right, Chris Lawrence, thank you very much. And we will obviously stay in close contact with him -- Betty.

NGUYEN: Badges of dishonor are being flashed in "CNN Security Watch" today, evidence in what the feds allege was a high-volume operation serving would-be police impersonators and federal agent impersonators and U.S. marshal impersonators.

CNN's Deborah Feyerick, the real deal, joins us now live with all these details. What a wide range.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Incredible, Betty. And as a matter of fact, one homeland security official tells us that hooking at these badges, nine out of 10 would actually pass scrutiny. And now they are very worried that some of these badges may have fallen into the hands of terrorists.

Yesterday, agents seized more than 1,300 badges from 3,500 different law enforcement agencies. We are talking the FBI, drug enforcement, Secret Service, customs, also the NYPD and U.S. marshals. Now some badges were so real they even had the imprint of the company that actually makes these badges for real.

And two books were found, along with these badges, showing specifics and dimensions on how to counterfeit these items. The head of immigration and customs enforcement in New York calls these very, very good.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTIN FICKE, IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT: Here you have clearly over 1300 very good counterfeit badges, representing over 35 law enforcement agencies, federal, state and local.

And for someone to have that in their possession and to be able to utilize that to identify themselves as a law enforcement officer could be devastating when it comes to a situation like homeland security, of course, where we're trying to control access to various things and the authority of various people to have access to those particular locations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FEYERICK: Now the badges were shipped from Taiwan, China, to San Francisco. An alert customs agent saw the package, opened it, and then contacted officials in New York, who conducted a raid on a Bronx apartment.

They did arrest a Russian man by the name of Sergio Khorosh. He is actually a permanent U.S. resident here in the United States. He has more than 30 arrests, at least one of them for impersonating an officer.

Right now, federal agents scanning through computer and records to see who he may have shipped some of these badges out to. They're very, very concerned that anybody holding these badges could pass themselves off as a real law enforcement agent -- Betty.

NGUYEN: Deborah, you also mentioned that there's some worry that these badges got in the hands of terrorists. This operation, is it linked to terrorism in any way?

FEYERICK: Right now, they're in the middle of the investigation so they cannot say one way or another. That's a question that I asked them directly. But they really want to know who bought these.

And apparently, this van had a web site that you could go on to, to try to find these badges. And in the criminal complaint, he was actually advertising to get real badges, perhaps even to send them to Taiwan so that they could be duplicated there. But they want to know who bought the real goods. There were packages waiting to be sent.

NGUYEN: A lot of them. All right. CNN's Deborah Feyerick, we thank you for that.

Also coming up later this hour, our Daniel Sieberg will have the latest on a security threat to our nation's computer systems.

CNN is committed to providing the most reliable coverage of news that affects your security, so stay tuned to CNN for the latest information day and night.

O'BRIEN: Two months now after that bloody rampage at the Fulton County Courthouse here in Atlanta, the rape suspect accused of gunning down a judge and three others due back in court any moment. This time, his life is on the line. Brian Nichols to appear for a hearing mandated by the state's intent to execute him if he is convicted. We'll bring you full coverage of this hearing as soon as it happens -- Betty.

NGUYEN: And right now, we are joined once again by a fixture in the Fulton County Courthouse, a longtime attorney and friend of the judge who was killed. Talking about B.J. Bernstein. She joins us today.

Thanks for being with us, first of all. Well, as we talk about this hearing, what exactly is going to happen today as it gets under way right now?

B.J. BERNSTEIN, ATTORNEY: Today is what's called an arraignment. That's when Nichols comes before the judge and he is officially given the charges against him.

In this case, they have indicted him -- the grand jury has indicted him -- with 54 different counts, ranging from murder, what happened in the courthouse, to the kidnappings and the car jackings that happened on his way out of the courthouse.

NGUYEN: Is this where he also gets the word from prosecutors, the official word that they are seeking the death penalty?

BERNSTEIN: That's correct. The state will probably put him on notice today that they are seeking officially the death penalty.

NGUYEN: OK. What about Nichols' defense? Who is representing him?

BERNSTEIN: He is represented by a public defender and a representative of the capital defender's office. So these are attorneys who are, you know -- work for the public defender's office, have experience in these kinds of cases, but specifically have experience with death penalty cases.

NGUYEN: We're looking at some live pictures right now of that hearing. You see Nichols right there in the middle of your screen with those attorneys that we just mentioned.

Now, as you said, he is being represented by public defenders. In a case like this, in today's hearing, does he get an opportunity to ask for maybe some new defenders if he doesn't like the ones who's representing him right now?

BERNSTEIN: No, when you asking the judge to appoint you an attorney, it's not the attorney of your choice. The judge selects. And in this particular instance, these will be his attorneys unless he privately hired someone to step forward.

But the attorneys he has, they're known around the courthouse. They're good lawyers. And they've already been doing some very interesting things pre-arraignment that a lot of lawyers wouldn't have done in the case already.

NGUYEN: OK. And today do we expect Nichols to plead either guilty or not guilty?

BERNSTEIN: Today, he'll plead not guilty, which is always -- people scratch their heads and say, how can he plead not guilty?

NGUYEN: With so many witnesses out there who will possibly take the stand in this case.

BERNSTEIN: Right, and what it really means in legal terms, you and I might say, "Oh, you're not guilty because I didn't do anything." What not guilty means in the legal world means is I'm forcing the government now to prove the charges against me. The prosecutor's going to have to go forward and prove it in court.

NGUYEN: But is not guilty also setting up a case for insanity, maybe?

BERNSTEIN: Well, that's going to be a decision made later on. It could be just a regular not guilty verdict like most, you know, 99 percent of the cases at an arraignment, the person pleads not guilty, even though they may later change their plea. And this leaves the opportunity to still raise the insanity defense.

NGUYEN: Quickly, one last thing. So many people in the Atlanta area know about this case. It made national news. Can he get a fair trial here?

BERNSTEIN: It's going to be interesting to see. I mean, they have brought in another judge from another county, because the judges in Fulton County didn't feel comfortable, understandably so, sitting on the case. And they've brought in someone. He's a very fair jurist.

And it's going to be difficult, though, to find a jury in Fulton County. It will be interesting to see what the defense chooses to do.

NGUYEN: We'll be watching to see. B.J. Bernstein, we appreciate your time and information today. Thank you -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right, we're calling on our tech guru for the latest on the computer hacking story in the news today.

DANIEL SIEBERG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm technology correspondent Daniel Sieberg. Thousands of government computer systems have apparently been hacked in the United States. Find out why authorities are focusing on a 16-year-old in Sweden. That's coming up.

O'BRIEN: Thank you, Daniel, see you soon.

Wasting away again -- not. Jimmy Buffet's latest Margaritaville enterprise hits satellite radio.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(WEATHER REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: All right, live feed, that's the Rolling Stones and -- well, that's not the Rolling Stones. Those are some of their fans there. We're about to get a big announcement on a Rolling Stones world tour. Going to be doing it with walkers and wheelchairs this time.

In any case, they're going to be probably coming to a city near you. And if you stay tuned to CNN, stand by for Rolling Stones press conference. We will bring it to you the moment it happens, and let you know when and where you might be able to see the -- I guess you can call them the old gray men of rock 'n' roll -- Betty.

NGUYEN: You are going to get in so much trouble, Miles.

O'BRIEN: Yes.

NGUYEN: All right. Trying to lower your cholesterol? Well, it is no secret that a low-fat diet can help. But it also turns out that not all low-fat diets are created equal. CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta has more on why you should eat more of the right food.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): How's this for a piece of advice: if you want to lower your cholesterol, eat more. Yep, go ahead.

Researchers from Stanford have found that if you switch your diet to more plant-derived foods, you'll be getting a blend of good cholesterol-lowering chemicals, and the more of these chemicals, the better the effect.

(on camera) Well, I really like specifics, so I decided to put this to the test in my own kitchen. You remember, in the mid-'90s, the focus was on a low-fat diet, according to the American Heart Association. So this is what a meal would look like.

For example, for breakfast a plain bagel, one tablespoon of jelly, three tablespoons of cream cheese. You get a cup of coffee. You get eight ounces of grape juice in the morning, as well. For lunch, a turkey baloney sandwich with tomato, as well, a cup and a half of potato chips and a caffeine-free diet Coke.

If you wanted snacks throughout the day, you got a couple of Snackwell cookies. Remember those?

For dinner, you got two cups of potato chicken casserole. You also got eight ounces of apple juice.

Now, that was going to be your traditional low fat diet of the mid-'90s. By the time 2000 rolled around, there much more of a focus not only on low fat, but also lowering your cholesterol.

The first thing you'll notice here, there's a lot more food. First of all, for breakfast you get two cups of whole grain oatmeal, get some raisins sprinkled on top, half a cup of blueberries, some green tea, as well, 10 ounces of soy milk.

For lunch, a soy burger, a little cheddar cheese, an egg, one egg and some confetti slaw. Also eight ounces of carrot juice.

Now if you want snacks throughout the day on this diet, you get half a cup of seedless grapes, seven pieces of licorice and again, some more sun-dried raisins.

Now, for dinner, big meal here, two cups of garbanzo beans. This is with tomato sauce. A cup and a half of whole grains, two cups of essential salad, more green tea and for dessert, one whole grain fudge cookie.

The big focus here, what they were trying to figure out is which diet would actually lower your cholesterol further.

(voice-over) They found simply that those who ate the diet with more plant products did better. Specifically, those on a regular low- fat diet saw their cholesterol levels drop nearly five percent. But those on the plant-based low-fat diet saw their bad cholesterol drop nearly twice as much, down 9.4 percent.

Now, in full disclosure, neither diet caused much weight loss or weight gain in the long term. But the evidence is clear. With certain foods, you can eat as much as you want and still lower your cholesterol.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: I have got to change my diet. We have more of Dr. Sanjay Gupta coming up in the second hour of LIVE FROM. He takes us behind the scenes of an actual murder investigation to meet the real CSI Miami cops and see the difference between TV gumshoes versus the real deal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) NGUYEN (voice-over): Later on LIVE FROM, prosecutors put him in jail and closed the case of Atlanta missing and murdered children. Hear what Wayne Williams has to say now that the investigation is being reopened.

Also ahead, this couple is having trouble naming their baby. And she's a year and a half old.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's no name out there that's her. Because she's so...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, it would have been easier to name her when we didn't know her.

NGUYEN: Tomorrow on LIVE FROM, gossip, food, and a life spent hobnobbing with celebrities. Does it get any better than this? Get the latest dish from columnist Liz Smith.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: All right, our circle of excellence here on LIVE FROM. Successfully predicted "Start Me Up" would be the song that they would use there at the Julliard School of Music in New York City to announce their new world tour. Sure enough -- I guess you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that one out.

Yes, they look a little road-weary, but they can still belt it out, can't they? Anyway, they're announcing the big world tour. We'll have some details for you very shortly. This happened just a few moments ago. More details forthcoming. Stay with us for more on this, your Rolling Stone program -- Betty.

NGUYEN: I think I placed a bet on that and you owe me, Miles.

O'BRIEN: Did I?

NGUYEN: Yes.

O'BRIEN: I did -- I think I did say "Brown Sugar."

NGUYEN: You did.

O'BRIEN: I was going to take credit for the entire majority of the team.

NGUYEN: But of course.

O'BRIEN: So basically I took credit for your guess.

NGUYEN: You still owe me. You still owe me.

O'BRIEN: All right.

NGUYEN: Cold cash. Going to move on right now, Miles. It looks like U.S. workers are getting better about saving for retirement, but they might not be going about it the right way. Susan Lisovicz joins us live from the New York Stock Exchange to explain this.

So I may not be doing it right, Susan?

(STOCK REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: Right now in the news, the governor of Iraq's al-Anbar province was kidnapped a short time ago. Tribal sources tell CNN the abductors are demanding U.S. forces stop operations in the region. It is the third day of a major U.S. offensive to root insurgents from western al-Anbar, which is near the Syrian border.

A hearing for courthouse killing suspect Brian Nichols just getting underway in Atlanta. The hearing is aimed at ensuring Nichols, who faces Georgia's death penalty, is -- or has adequate legal representation. A Fulton County grand jury indicted Nichols on 54 counts stemming from the March 11 shooting spree. Four people were killed during the rampage, including an Atlanta judge.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired May 10, 2005 - 13:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CO-HOST: The Atlanta courthouse shooter and former fugitive from justice, Brian Nichols, back in court as we speak. We'll be live with the latest.
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Chris Lawrence, live in the small town of Zion, Illinois, where police may be getting closer to naming a suspect in the brutal stabbings of two little girls.

BETTY NGUYEN, CO-HOST: "Security Watch" this hour. They are calling it the mother lode. A huge stash of fake security badges is found. We have new developments live from New York.

O'BRIEN: NASA, the military, and Cisco systems, all expertly hacked. Who was behind it and what's being done to fix the problem? Details coming up.

From the CNN center, our own mission control, I'm Miles O'Brien. It is Tuesday, May 10.

NGUYEN: And I'm Betty Nguyen, in for Kyra Phillips today. CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.

O'BRIEN: And we begin this hour with murder and mourning in Zion and potentially, reportedly, an arrest.

A little more than a day after the bodies of two best friends and second graders were found in a wooded corner of Zion, Illinois, north of Chicago, police confirming to CNN now they consider one of the girls' fathers a person of interest. And there's a newspaper report that charges are being drawn up against an unidentified suspect.

Eight-year-old Laura Hobbs, 9-year-old Krystal Tobias, were last seen alive on Sunday afternoon. Today, their tight-knit community, a city founded as a religious utopia, is shattered, naturally.

CNN's Chris Lawrence is there -- Chris.

LAWRENCE: Miles, everybody is just waiting to find out what's going to happen with the police investigation. As you said, right now, what we believe is that the father of Laura Hobbs, Jerry Hobbs, has been looked as a person of interest in this case. There is a separate report that says a suspect could be named and charged some time today. I spoke with the coroner just a few minutes ago, and he seemed to think that something will happen by the end of the day today. Now, to give you a little background, we've been talking about this story a lot, but to bring you up to date on what's been happening here. These are two little girls, 8 years old, 9 years old. They're second graders, best friends, Krystal Tobias and Laura Hobbs.

They were playing Sunday. A lot of neighbors saw them outside, riding their bikes, swinging on a hammock. They were supposed to be home about 7 p.m. on Sunday. When they didn't show up, their parents called in, said, "Hey, our daughters are missing. Something's wrong."

It didn't take long. By the next morning, someone walking through a thickly wooded section of a park, very close to where they go to school and where they live, he found the bodies of both girls. And the coroner says they were stabbed to death, stabbed multiple times and then left for dead in this part of the park.

Since then, it has just been terrifying for the other parents and kids who live here. A lot of parents kept their kids home from school today. Those that did make it to school were literally walked to the door by their parents. Just so worried about -- wondering if someone is out there who can harm their children.

So everyone will be paying very close attention to see where this investigation goes from here -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Chris, there are some reports out that one of the fathers discovered the bodies. Is that -- have we been able to pin that one down?

LAWRENCE: Yes, we're still trying to confirm that. What we have been hearing is that they have been talking to the father of Laura Hobbs, from very shortly after the bodies were found, around 6 in the morning, on Monday.

So it is possible that that is true. We have not been able to confirm it. What we do know is the police have been in contact with him from shortly after the point where the bodies were found.

O'BRIEN: All right, Chris Lawrence, thank you very much. And we will obviously stay in close contact with him -- Betty.

NGUYEN: Badges of dishonor are being flashed in "CNN Security Watch" today, evidence in what the feds allege was a high-volume operation serving would-be police impersonators and federal agent impersonators and U.S. marshal impersonators.

CNN's Deborah Feyerick, the real deal, joins us now live with all these details. What a wide range.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Incredible, Betty. And as a matter of fact, one homeland security official tells us that hooking at these badges, nine out of 10 would actually pass scrutiny. And now they are very worried that some of these badges may have fallen into the hands of terrorists.

Yesterday, agents seized more than 1,300 badges from 3,500 different law enforcement agencies. We are talking the FBI, drug enforcement, Secret Service, customs, also the NYPD and U.S. marshals. Now some badges were so real they even had the imprint of the company that actually makes these badges for real.

And two books were found, along with these badges, showing specifics and dimensions on how to counterfeit these items. The head of immigration and customs enforcement in New York calls these very, very good.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTIN FICKE, IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT: Here you have clearly over 1300 very good counterfeit badges, representing over 35 law enforcement agencies, federal, state and local.

And for someone to have that in their possession and to be able to utilize that to identify themselves as a law enforcement officer could be devastating when it comes to a situation like homeland security, of course, where we're trying to control access to various things and the authority of various people to have access to those particular locations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FEYERICK: Now the badges were shipped from Taiwan, China, to San Francisco. An alert customs agent saw the package, opened it, and then contacted officials in New York, who conducted a raid on a Bronx apartment.

They did arrest a Russian man by the name of Sergio Khorosh. He is actually a permanent U.S. resident here in the United States. He has more than 30 arrests, at least one of them for impersonating an officer.

Right now, federal agents scanning through computer and records to see who he may have shipped some of these badges out to. They're very, very concerned that anybody holding these badges could pass themselves off as a real law enforcement agent -- Betty.

NGUYEN: Deborah, you also mentioned that there's some worry that these badges got in the hands of terrorists. This operation, is it linked to terrorism in any way?

FEYERICK: Right now, they're in the middle of the investigation so they cannot say one way or another. That's a question that I asked them directly. But they really want to know who bought these.

And apparently, this van had a web site that you could go on to, to try to find these badges. And in the criminal complaint, he was actually advertising to get real badges, perhaps even to send them to Taiwan so that they could be duplicated there. But they want to know who bought the real goods. There were packages waiting to be sent.

NGUYEN: A lot of them. All right. CNN's Deborah Feyerick, we thank you for that.

Also coming up later this hour, our Daniel Sieberg will have the latest on a security threat to our nation's computer systems.

CNN is committed to providing the most reliable coverage of news that affects your security, so stay tuned to CNN for the latest information day and night.

O'BRIEN: Two months now after that bloody rampage at the Fulton County Courthouse here in Atlanta, the rape suspect accused of gunning down a judge and three others due back in court any moment. This time, his life is on the line. Brian Nichols to appear for a hearing mandated by the state's intent to execute him if he is convicted. We'll bring you full coverage of this hearing as soon as it happens -- Betty.

NGUYEN: And right now, we are joined once again by a fixture in the Fulton County Courthouse, a longtime attorney and friend of the judge who was killed. Talking about B.J. Bernstein. She joins us today.

Thanks for being with us, first of all. Well, as we talk about this hearing, what exactly is going to happen today as it gets under way right now?

B.J. BERNSTEIN, ATTORNEY: Today is what's called an arraignment. That's when Nichols comes before the judge and he is officially given the charges against him.

In this case, they have indicted him -- the grand jury has indicted him -- with 54 different counts, ranging from murder, what happened in the courthouse, to the kidnappings and the car jackings that happened on his way out of the courthouse.

NGUYEN: Is this where he also gets the word from prosecutors, the official word that they are seeking the death penalty?

BERNSTEIN: That's correct. The state will probably put him on notice today that they are seeking officially the death penalty.

NGUYEN: OK. What about Nichols' defense? Who is representing him?

BERNSTEIN: He is represented by a public defender and a representative of the capital defender's office. So these are attorneys who are, you know -- work for the public defender's office, have experience in these kinds of cases, but specifically have experience with death penalty cases.

NGUYEN: We're looking at some live pictures right now of that hearing. You see Nichols right there in the middle of your screen with those attorneys that we just mentioned.

Now, as you said, he is being represented by public defenders. In a case like this, in today's hearing, does he get an opportunity to ask for maybe some new defenders if he doesn't like the ones who's representing him right now?

BERNSTEIN: No, when you asking the judge to appoint you an attorney, it's not the attorney of your choice. The judge selects. And in this particular instance, these will be his attorneys unless he privately hired someone to step forward.

But the attorneys he has, they're known around the courthouse. They're good lawyers. And they've already been doing some very interesting things pre-arraignment that a lot of lawyers wouldn't have done in the case already.

NGUYEN: OK. And today do we expect Nichols to plead either guilty or not guilty?

BERNSTEIN: Today, he'll plead not guilty, which is always -- people scratch their heads and say, how can he plead not guilty?

NGUYEN: With so many witnesses out there who will possibly take the stand in this case.

BERNSTEIN: Right, and what it really means in legal terms, you and I might say, "Oh, you're not guilty because I didn't do anything." What not guilty means in the legal world means is I'm forcing the government now to prove the charges against me. The prosecutor's going to have to go forward and prove it in court.

NGUYEN: But is not guilty also setting up a case for insanity, maybe?

BERNSTEIN: Well, that's going to be a decision made later on. It could be just a regular not guilty verdict like most, you know, 99 percent of the cases at an arraignment, the person pleads not guilty, even though they may later change their plea. And this leaves the opportunity to still raise the insanity defense.

NGUYEN: Quickly, one last thing. So many people in the Atlanta area know about this case. It made national news. Can he get a fair trial here?

BERNSTEIN: It's going to be interesting to see. I mean, they have brought in another judge from another county, because the judges in Fulton County didn't feel comfortable, understandably so, sitting on the case. And they've brought in someone. He's a very fair jurist.

And it's going to be difficult, though, to find a jury in Fulton County. It will be interesting to see what the defense chooses to do.

NGUYEN: We'll be watching to see. B.J. Bernstein, we appreciate your time and information today. Thank you -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right, we're calling on our tech guru for the latest on the computer hacking story in the news today.

DANIEL SIEBERG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm technology correspondent Daniel Sieberg. Thousands of government computer systems have apparently been hacked in the United States. Find out why authorities are focusing on a 16-year-old in Sweden. That's coming up.

O'BRIEN: Thank you, Daniel, see you soon.

Wasting away again -- not. Jimmy Buffet's latest Margaritaville enterprise hits satellite radio.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(WEATHER REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: All right, live feed, that's the Rolling Stones and -- well, that's not the Rolling Stones. Those are some of their fans there. We're about to get a big announcement on a Rolling Stones world tour. Going to be doing it with walkers and wheelchairs this time.

In any case, they're going to be probably coming to a city near you. And if you stay tuned to CNN, stand by for Rolling Stones press conference. We will bring it to you the moment it happens, and let you know when and where you might be able to see the -- I guess you can call them the old gray men of rock 'n' roll -- Betty.

NGUYEN: You are going to get in so much trouble, Miles.

O'BRIEN: Yes.

NGUYEN: All right. Trying to lower your cholesterol? Well, it is no secret that a low-fat diet can help. But it also turns out that not all low-fat diets are created equal. CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta has more on why you should eat more of the right food.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): How's this for a piece of advice: if you want to lower your cholesterol, eat more. Yep, go ahead.

Researchers from Stanford have found that if you switch your diet to more plant-derived foods, you'll be getting a blend of good cholesterol-lowering chemicals, and the more of these chemicals, the better the effect.

(on camera) Well, I really like specifics, so I decided to put this to the test in my own kitchen. You remember, in the mid-'90s, the focus was on a low-fat diet, according to the American Heart Association. So this is what a meal would look like.

For example, for breakfast a plain bagel, one tablespoon of jelly, three tablespoons of cream cheese. You get a cup of coffee. You get eight ounces of grape juice in the morning, as well. For lunch, a turkey baloney sandwich with tomato, as well, a cup and a half of potato chips and a caffeine-free diet Coke.

If you wanted snacks throughout the day, you got a couple of Snackwell cookies. Remember those?

For dinner, you got two cups of potato chicken casserole. You also got eight ounces of apple juice.

Now, that was going to be your traditional low fat diet of the mid-'90s. By the time 2000 rolled around, there much more of a focus not only on low fat, but also lowering your cholesterol.

The first thing you'll notice here, there's a lot more food. First of all, for breakfast you get two cups of whole grain oatmeal, get some raisins sprinkled on top, half a cup of blueberries, some green tea, as well, 10 ounces of soy milk.

For lunch, a soy burger, a little cheddar cheese, an egg, one egg and some confetti slaw. Also eight ounces of carrot juice.

Now if you want snacks throughout the day on this diet, you get half a cup of seedless grapes, seven pieces of licorice and again, some more sun-dried raisins.

Now, for dinner, big meal here, two cups of garbanzo beans. This is with tomato sauce. A cup and a half of whole grains, two cups of essential salad, more green tea and for dessert, one whole grain fudge cookie.

The big focus here, what they were trying to figure out is which diet would actually lower your cholesterol further.

(voice-over) They found simply that those who ate the diet with more plant products did better. Specifically, those on a regular low- fat diet saw their cholesterol levels drop nearly five percent. But those on the plant-based low-fat diet saw their bad cholesterol drop nearly twice as much, down 9.4 percent.

Now, in full disclosure, neither diet caused much weight loss or weight gain in the long term. But the evidence is clear. With certain foods, you can eat as much as you want and still lower your cholesterol.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: I have got to change my diet. We have more of Dr. Sanjay Gupta coming up in the second hour of LIVE FROM. He takes us behind the scenes of an actual murder investigation to meet the real CSI Miami cops and see the difference between TV gumshoes versus the real deal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) NGUYEN (voice-over): Later on LIVE FROM, prosecutors put him in jail and closed the case of Atlanta missing and murdered children. Hear what Wayne Williams has to say now that the investigation is being reopened.

Also ahead, this couple is having trouble naming their baby. And she's a year and a half old.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's no name out there that's her. Because she's so...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, it would have been easier to name her when we didn't know her.

NGUYEN: Tomorrow on LIVE FROM, gossip, food, and a life spent hobnobbing with celebrities. Does it get any better than this? Get the latest dish from columnist Liz Smith.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: All right, our circle of excellence here on LIVE FROM. Successfully predicted "Start Me Up" would be the song that they would use there at the Julliard School of Music in New York City to announce their new world tour. Sure enough -- I guess you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that one out.

Yes, they look a little road-weary, but they can still belt it out, can't they? Anyway, they're announcing the big world tour. We'll have some details for you very shortly. This happened just a few moments ago. More details forthcoming. Stay with us for more on this, your Rolling Stone program -- Betty.

NGUYEN: I think I placed a bet on that and you owe me, Miles.

O'BRIEN: Did I?

NGUYEN: Yes.

O'BRIEN: I did -- I think I did say "Brown Sugar."

NGUYEN: You did.

O'BRIEN: I was going to take credit for the entire majority of the team.

NGUYEN: But of course.

O'BRIEN: So basically I took credit for your guess.

NGUYEN: You still owe me. You still owe me.

O'BRIEN: All right.

NGUYEN: Cold cash. Going to move on right now, Miles. It looks like U.S. workers are getting better about saving for retirement, but they might not be going about it the right way. Susan Lisovicz joins us live from the New York Stock Exchange to explain this.

So I may not be doing it right, Susan?

(STOCK REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: Right now in the news, the governor of Iraq's al-Anbar province was kidnapped a short time ago. Tribal sources tell CNN the abductors are demanding U.S. forces stop operations in the region. It is the third day of a major U.S. offensive to root insurgents from western al-Anbar, which is near the Syrian border.

A hearing for courthouse killing suspect Brian Nichols just getting underway in Atlanta. The hearing is aimed at ensuring Nichols, who faces Georgia's death penalty, is -- or has adequate legal representation. A Fulton County grand jury indicted Nichols on 54 counts stemming from the March 11 shooting spree. Four people were killed during the rampage, including an Atlanta judge.

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