Return to Transcripts main page

Live From...

Girl's Father Questioned in Zion, Illinois Murders; Nichols in Court; USS Truman Intruder

Aired May 10, 2005 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: This just in to CNN. We are learning that the Riverside County sheriff is confirming that they are working a homicide with multiple victims. Now, this is in Riverside County, California. Very little information is being presented at this time.
Here's a look at a home presumably under investigation where these victims are being housed right now. But according to the Riverside County sheriff, they are working a homicide with several victims.

We don't know who it involves, exactly how many victims. We are working this. But this is the information just coming in to CNN. And we'll bring you the latest when it becomes available to us.

Also in the news today, he found the bodies, he reportedly did time for assault, he is the father of one of the victims. Now Jerry Hobbs is being called a person of interest by police in Zion, Illinois, a small community devastated by the disappearance and murder of two second graders, best friends, who were last seen riding bikes on Mother's Day.

CNN's Chris Lawrence has the latest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Parents in this small town have been terrified since the bodies of those two little girls were discovered in a park very close to where they go to school and where they live. After initially saying they had absolutely no leads, police then said they had identified a person of interest. And now there are reports that a suspect will be charged later today.

Laura Hobbs and Krystal Tobias were second graders at a local elementary school here. Their bodies were found Monday morning after they turned up missing late Sunday afternoon.

The community has been just wrecked with terror and with fear. Many parents keeping their kids home from school. The ones that did go to school were walked to school by their parents. And now many of them say they will have to go further and explain what happened.

This was a brutal murder in that the coroner says these two little girls were stabbed to death. And now the parents have the responsibility of trying to explain that to very young children. And they'll be very interested to see where this investigation goes from here. I'm Chris Lawrence, reporting from Zion, Illinois.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: Now, the school district has mobilized social workers and a crisis intervention team to help classmates cope with the shock and the fear. Earlier today on CNN's "AMERICAN MORNING," the district superintendent said the girl's second grade class had recently discussed the subject of death.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONSTANCE COLLINS, SUPERINTENDENT, ZION SCHOOLS: In talking with the classroom teacher, she shared with me that the children recently read a couple of books on loss, "Charlotte's Web," as well as "The taste of Blackberries." And the children had an opportunity to discuss their feelings and really talk about what it meant to lose someone, and to share with each other.

I think it's wonderful that they have had that experience already. And I think that they will be able to use those books as a tool to help the children to understand what has occurred now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NGUYEN: Collins also said that as a precaution, escorts were assigned to students after school so no child was allowed to go home alone.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The Georgia man accused of killing a judge in his own courtroom, among many, many other offenses, learned today for the record that the state would like to kill him if he's convicted.

CNN's Tony Harris at the Fulton County Courthouse here in Atlanta with more -- Tony.

TONY HARRIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Miles, an interesting afternoon. This was supposed to be pretty routine. A lot of housekeeping actually went on in the courtroom for the 1:00 hearing that got started at about 1:10 this afternoon.

A lot of putting calendars or dates on the calendar for hearings and motions. The surprise, I guess, of the afternoon is there was no arraignment for Brian Nichols. We all expected it. The prosecution was ready to go. The defense needed more time.

Remember, we are dealing with public defenders here with multiple cases. Nichols will be arraigned. The new date is next Tuesday, the 17th of May, with that start time at 10:00 a.m.

Now, Miles, everything was moving along smoothly in the courtroom until the very end of the hearing. At that time, district attorney for Fulton County, Paul Howard, decided that he wanted to walk around the table to the defense table and actually serve Brian Nichols with the motion, the notice of the intent of the state to seek the death penalty in this case.

So he first asked the judge to be allow to do that. The judge says, "Well, you've already stated it on the record. It's on the record that you're seeking the death penalty. Why don't you just hand the piece of paper to defense counsel?"

Howard took the time to walk around the tables and attempted to hand the notice to Brian Nichols himself. There was an objection from Chris Adams, the defense attorney for Brian Nichols. And ultimately, Paul Howard handed the piece of paper, the notice, to Chris Adams, the lead defense attorney for Brian Nichols.

So everything was moving along fine, swimmingly, in fact, if not slowly, throughout the course of the hearing, until this moment of drama at the very end. That's what happened in the courtroom this afternoon -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Tony, do we have any explanation? Was it some sort of Perry Mason moment here?

HEMMER: Well -- well, that's certainly what Chris Adams, lead defense attorney for Brian Nichols, was suggesting, that he didn't want -- that what was happening here was a bit of grandstanding by D.A. Paul Howard. And remember, there are a couple of motions coming up in the next month or so, the beginning of June to be exact, that first week in June. And one of the motions that was placed on the court schedule today was a motion to disqualify the Fulton County district attorney's office from prosecuting this case altogether.

And I'm sure this moment in the courtroom today will serve as part of the example that the defense will use for the granting of that motion.

O'BRIEN: Tony Harris in Atlanta, thank you very much.

HARRIS: Sure.

O'BRIEN: Betty.

NGUYEN: Turning to security news now, U.S. and British navel investigators are try to determine how an intruder was able to breach security and board the aircraft carrier the USS Truman.

Our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr, joins us now live with all these details. Very interesting that this was even allowed to happen.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Betty, it's a story that's still unfolding. Initially reported several weeks ago, with some very sketchy details in the British news media. But now more of those details coming to light.

It was last month off Portsmouth Harbor in southern England the aircraft carrier Harry Truman was anchored offshore, making a port call. And indeed, somehow an intruder got on board. Both U.S. Navy and Royal Navy investigators now looking at this very significant security breach.

The man was determined not to be a terrorist. But that really is beside the point right now because security was indeed breached.

Somehow this man got past British Royal Navy security on the Portsmouth docks, boarded a small ferry boat that was taking members of the Truman back out to sea to their ship, and then got on board the Truman. He was apparently on board for about half an hour before Truman security forces determined he was an intruder and found him.

They conducted an immediate security search on board the ship, determined he had not placed any explosives or caused any damage. But, Betty, the reason this is so significant, of course, it was about five years ago the USS Cole bombed in Yemen, in the harbor in Yemen, 17 sailors killed in that terrorist attack you see here. And ever since the Cole attack, the Navy has had very stringent security standards when its warships are in port.

But apparently last month a serious breach.

This man is said to be of west African descent. He is said to be known to British law enforcement authority. He has attempted to breach security at other British facilities. But now a separate inquiry under way as to how all of this happened on board a U.S. Navy aircraft carrier -- Betty.

NGUYEN: CNN's Barbara Starr, we thank you.

The FBI is investigating a young hacker suspected of compromising the computers controlling the Internet. The teenager has been charged as a juvenile in Sweden. He says he infiltrated systems serving the U.S. military research labs and NASA, but it is unclear if the juvenile can be prosecuted for violating U.S. laws. Now, we will talk more about computer security in just a bit with the notorious ex- hacker Kevin Mitnick.

O'BRIEN: More than a thousand fake IDs designed to look like law enforcement badges have authorities a little bit worried in New York. They say they found the counterfeit badges at Sergio Khorosh's home in the Bronx.

The badges were from 35 agencies, including the FBI, Drug Enforcement Agency, New York Police, the Air Marshals, you name it. Authorities say the badges were being sold over the Internet and there's concern some may have fallen into the hands of terrorists.

Depend on CNN day and nights to keep you updated on all the important news about your security.

Computer security in the spotlight next, the hacker who may have cracked the systems at Cisco, NASA, and some U.S. military sites. Had to be pretty good at it. But master hacker Kevin Mitnick, reformed now, no slouch either, we'll talk with him next.

NGUYEN: And a firefighter lost a winning ticket worth -- get this, Miles -- $800,000. But this Derby day nightmare does have a happy ending.

O'BRIEN: That would be my life, to win and then lose the ticket.

And somebody please name this child. Her parents are stuck, they can't find the perfect name for their one-and-a-half-year-old baby girl, cute as a little button.

What do you think, Betty, Miles?

NGUYEN: For a little girl?

O'BRIEN: Kind of cute for a girl. Millie? I don't know.

NGUYEN: Betty. Let's go with Betty.

O'BRIEN: We'll weigh in with some thoughts after a break.

NGUYEN: OK.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: This just in. We are getting some video out of Iraq. Some of the first video from the raids that are taking place there.

U.S. forces have been on this region here in Iraq which is near the Syrian border. Now, this is the third straight day where U.S. forces have been attacking insurgents in this region which are believed to be taking refuge and planning attacks near the porous border of Syria.

And again, this is the first video that we are receiving here at CNN from the raids that are taking place in Iraq, the third straight day of raids there. We'll continue to update you on this and bring you the latest when it becomes available to us -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Well, the Internet certainly is an astounding phenomenon. And so, in many ways, it mirrors the real world, the good, the bad, and the spam. Many things that make it useful also make it vulnerable to attack. And as it so often goes, the trail to those who try to break into computers on the Internet is leading to a teenager with some time, some brains, a computer and maybe a malicious streak.

Kevin Mitnick knows all about the vulnerabilities of computers. He is an infamous or famous, depending on who you ask, ex-hacker. He's out with a new book called "The Art of Intrusion." That's his second effort.

Kevin, good to have you on the program.

Thank you, Miles. Great to be here.

O'BRIEN: Let's talk about this current attack, what we know about it. Based on what you've heard, is this particular person or persons a particularly clever hacker? KEVIN MITNICK, FMR. COMPUTER HACKER: He could be. Apparently, he was being monitored when he had already hacked into a group of laboratory computers. And they had monitored him retrieving passwords from a program that he installed at Cisco. And he was able to harvest these log-in names and password to gain access to Cisco's systems to steal their source code.

O'BRIEN: All right. And we -- that's a lot of -- for people who don't know much about computers, that's a little bit of gobbledygook. But basically what that does is give you some access to sort of the back doors of computers. I think the term you use is "root," right?

MITNICK: Well, what he did is he modified a program that is part of the operating system of the computer. So it secretly would take people's user names and passwords and store them, and then it would send him those user names and passwords later so he could access those systems.

O'BRIEN: All right. And does this remind you of something you might have done in another day and age?

MITNICK: Yes, absolutely. A decade ago I used to use the same M.O. to gain access to computers as well.

O'BRIEN: All right. And so let's talk for a moment and clarify. Because there's a lot of misunderstanding about this. What was your motive, and what do you suspect the motive was in this particular case?

MITNICK: My motive at the time was the pursuit of knowledge, the intellectual challenge, and being the best at circumventing security. In this case, from what I understand, it could be the bragging rights. He could have peers that were also hackers and he wanted to prove how clever he was to his peers.

O'BRIEN: All right. And based on what you've seen you think he might have actually proven himself to be pretty good at it. We've heard about the possibility he got into some NASA computers, some military computers. But what we're also hearing is -- and of course this is probably not a surprise to people -- is that the most sensitive information at those sites isn't available on the Web at all. It's not online.

And that's an important point, isn't it?

MITNICK: Well, we hope so. Don't forget, DOD contractors that do unclassified work, sometimes information on those systems could lead to information that is sensitive, but not classified. So he certainly...

O'BRIEN: Yes. You know, and I should -- I got to say this video, we shouldn't be showing this, because they didn't hack into mission control in Houston. I apologize for that. It was at Jet Propulsion Lab, a Web site there.

Why don't you finish your point there so we can press on. MITNICK: Yes. The important thing is, is this guy in Sweden allegedly exploited known vulnerabilities. And because these government agencies, because these companies did not -- they were not vigilant in patching their systems, that's what led to this attack. So unfortunately, because he didn't patch, they turned out to be the low-hanging fruit.

O'BRIEN: All right. What's interesting to me about all this is how much this probably goes on and we never hear about it.

You probably hear about a lot more that never gets on to front page of "The New York Times" or on to CNN. How much is this happening every day? How vulnerable really is the Internet?

MITNICK: We're extremely vulnerable. This is happening all the time.

When I wrote my new book, "The Art of Intrusion," I literally interviewed maybe 50 to 75 people that were doing it at the time. And then, of course, I chose the stories that would be most applicable to go in the book. So we really live in an insecure environment, and it's up to us to exercise certain protocols to make us more secure.

O'BRIEN: Yes, but just passwords and firewalls aren't enough, are they?

MITNICK: No, it's -- security is a component -- an information security program has components. It's about training your people. It's about developing processes. It's about using technology. And most importantly, it's configuring that technology correctly.

O'BRIEN: Kevin Mitnick...

MITNICK: A lot of hackers...

O'BRIEN: Yes. Go ahead, finish.

MITNICK: A lot of hackers exploit misconfigurations that system administrators actually end up doing on their systems.

O'BRIEN: All right. Kevin Mitnick, who is the author of the book "The Art of Intrusion," his second publication. A man who has long experience on the dark side, if you will, spent a little time in jail as a result. Now telling the world about the world of hackers.

Thank you.

MITNICK: Thank you, Miles. Remember, patch those systems.

O'BRIEN: Patch those systems. Good last words for that interview.

All right. Stick with CNN 24/7. We'll keep you posted about how to protect your computers and, of course, all the other news affecting your security. NGUYEN: Working the mean streets of Miami, there is more to the job than murder investigations. Ride along with a real CSI detective later right here on LIVE FROM.

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Susan Lisovicz at the New York Stock Exchange. A major airline and its workers are squaring off once again. I'll tell you what's behind this latest round up next on LIVE FROM.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: One of the big worries for some expectant parents is coming up with the perfect name for their baby. Well, for a couple in Tucson, Arizona, the task is dragging on more than a year after their baby daughter was born. Terry Gonzalez with our affiliate KGUN explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TERRY GONZALEZ, REPORTER, KGUN (voice-over): When Andrew Heatley and Mary Lane had their second child, a baby girl, they left the hospital without giving her a name.

MARY LANE, MOTHER OF NAMELESS BABY: We decided to wait and see her and see if she had her own personality and see what went with her. So we decided to wait.

GONZALEZ: And wait they did. On her first birthday, her cake read "Happy Birthday, Baby." At the doctor's office, she's known as "Baby Girl Lane." Today, at one and a half, she is still nameless.

LANE: There's no name out there that's her. Because she's so...

ANDREW HEATLEY, FATHER OF NAMELESS BABY: Yes, it would have been easier to name her when we didn't know her.

GONZALEZ: Older sister Mia has a name. But younger sister just goes by "Baby."

LANE: We started calling her "The Baby," "The Babe," and it turned into "The Bobe (ph)," and then we call her Bobie (ph).

GONZALEZ: Andrew and Mary did have some possibilities, but they say there's just no name that really seems to fit.

(on camera): Now, I can empathize with Mary and Andrew to some extent. At 7 months pregnant, my husband and I just cannot decide what to name our baby girl. But I can't imagine being in their situation a year and a half from now?

(voice-over): Mom and dad know some people think they are crazy for not naming their baby yet. They've taken their share of criticism and, Mary says, some people are downright rude about it. Others are just impatient. LANE: So my mom's like -- she used to call me -- she calls me every day and asks me, "Have you named the baby yet?" And I'm just like, "No, I'll do it tomorrow."

GONZALEZ: Since little Bobie (ph) has no legal name, she has no birth certificate, no Social Security number, and she can't even be claimed as a tax deduction. Mary has collected books and even dolls that illustrate her plight. They say they'll pick a name sometime soon. Maybe.

Terry Gonzalez, KGUN 9 News.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: All right. I've got the name. I hope they're listening.

NGUYEN: What is it?

O'BRIEN: Noname, N-O-N-A-M-E, Noname.

NGUYEN: You know what? If they wait long enough, she'll be old enough to name herself. Maybe that's the best choice here.

O'BRIEN: Most kids would rather do that anyway. All right.

NGUYEN: Noname?

O'BRIEN: Noname.

NGUYEN: Miles.

O'BRIEN: Noname.

All right. Let's look at some other news making news all "Across America" right now.

Dealing with your local DMV can require a lot of patience, especially if your name is Jesus Christ. Even though a D.C. man has been going by the name for quite some time, he has several legal documents to prove it, apparently, it's not enough for the man born Peter Robert Phillips Jr. to transfer his driver's license from D.C. to West Virginia. State officials say his given name, the one on his Florida birth certificate, is the one he has to go by.

A Phoenix firefighter figured all was lost when he couldn't find his winning Kentucky Derby Superfecta ticket in the trash. But the clerk who sold it to him came to his rescue. She found it next to her machine and returned it.

NGUYEN: Wow.

O'BRIEN: I hope she gets a little (INAUDIBLE). The payoff? After taxes, he won $604,000.

NGUYEN: That's a lucky man, twice over. O'BRIEN: Wow.

NGUYEN: Yes, wow is right.

Hey, United Airlines and its workers, they are squaring off once again as the carrier tries to cut costs.

O'BRIEN: It's hard being in the airline business. Susan Lisovicz watching that. I was reading about Delta today. They're still talking about bankruptcy. It's tough.

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired May 10, 2005 - 14:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: This just in to CNN. We are learning that the Riverside County sheriff is confirming that they are working a homicide with multiple victims. Now, this is in Riverside County, California. Very little information is being presented at this time.
Here's a look at a home presumably under investigation where these victims are being housed right now. But according to the Riverside County sheriff, they are working a homicide with several victims.

We don't know who it involves, exactly how many victims. We are working this. But this is the information just coming in to CNN. And we'll bring you the latest when it becomes available to us.

Also in the news today, he found the bodies, he reportedly did time for assault, he is the father of one of the victims. Now Jerry Hobbs is being called a person of interest by police in Zion, Illinois, a small community devastated by the disappearance and murder of two second graders, best friends, who were last seen riding bikes on Mother's Day.

CNN's Chris Lawrence has the latest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Parents in this small town have been terrified since the bodies of those two little girls were discovered in a park very close to where they go to school and where they live. After initially saying they had absolutely no leads, police then said they had identified a person of interest. And now there are reports that a suspect will be charged later today.

Laura Hobbs and Krystal Tobias were second graders at a local elementary school here. Their bodies were found Monday morning after they turned up missing late Sunday afternoon.

The community has been just wrecked with terror and with fear. Many parents keeping their kids home from school. The ones that did go to school were walked to school by their parents. And now many of them say they will have to go further and explain what happened.

This was a brutal murder in that the coroner says these two little girls were stabbed to death. And now the parents have the responsibility of trying to explain that to very young children. And they'll be very interested to see where this investigation goes from here. I'm Chris Lawrence, reporting from Zion, Illinois.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: Now, the school district has mobilized social workers and a crisis intervention team to help classmates cope with the shock and the fear. Earlier today on CNN's "AMERICAN MORNING," the district superintendent said the girl's second grade class had recently discussed the subject of death.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONSTANCE COLLINS, SUPERINTENDENT, ZION SCHOOLS: In talking with the classroom teacher, she shared with me that the children recently read a couple of books on loss, "Charlotte's Web," as well as "The taste of Blackberries." And the children had an opportunity to discuss their feelings and really talk about what it meant to lose someone, and to share with each other.

I think it's wonderful that they have had that experience already. And I think that they will be able to use those books as a tool to help the children to understand what has occurred now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NGUYEN: Collins also said that as a precaution, escorts were assigned to students after school so no child was allowed to go home alone.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The Georgia man accused of killing a judge in his own courtroom, among many, many other offenses, learned today for the record that the state would like to kill him if he's convicted.

CNN's Tony Harris at the Fulton County Courthouse here in Atlanta with more -- Tony.

TONY HARRIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Miles, an interesting afternoon. This was supposed to be pretty routine. A lot of housekeeping actually went on in the courtroom for the 1:00 hearing that got started at about 1:10 this afternoon.

A lot of putting calendars or dates on the calendar for hearings and motions. The surprise, I guess, of the afternoon is there was no arraignment for Brian Nichols. We all expected it. The prosecution was ready to go. The defense needed more time.

Remember, we are dealing with public defenders here with multiple cases. Nichols will be arraigned. The new date is next Tuesday, the 17th of May, with that start time at 10:00 a.m.

Now, Miles, everything was moving along smoothly in the courtroom until the very end of the hearing. At that time, district attorney for Fulton County, Paul Howard, decided that he wanted to walk around the table to the defense table and actually serve Brian Nichols with the motion, the notice of the intent of the state to seek the death penalty in this case.

So he first asked the judge to be allow to do that. The judge says, "Well, you've already stated it on the record. It's on the record that you're seeking the death penalty. Why don't you just hand the piece of paper to defense counsel?"

Howard took the time to walk around the tables and attempted to hand the notice to Brian Nichols himself. There was an objection from Chris Adams, the defense attorney for Brian Nichols. And ultimately, Paul Howard handed the piece of paper, the notice, to Chris Adams, the lead defense attorney for Brian Nichols.

So everything was moving along fine, swimmingly, in fact, if not slowly, throughout the course of the hearing, until this moment of drama at the very end. That's what happened in the courtroom this afternoon -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Tony, do we have any explanation? Was it some sort of Perry Mason moment here?

HEMMER: Well -- well, that's certainly what Chris Adams, lead defense attorney for Brian Nichols, was suggesting, that he didn't want -- that what was happening here was a bit of grandstanding by D.A. Paul Howard. And remember, there are a couple of motions coming up in the next month or so, the beginning of June to be exact, that first week in June. And one of the motions that was placed on the court schedule today was a motion to disqualify the Fulton County district attorney's office from prosecuting this case altogether.

And I'm sure this moment in the courtroom today will serve as part of the example that the defense will use for the granting of that motion.

O'BRIEN: Tony Harris in Atlanta, thank you very much.

HARRIS: Sure.

O'BRIEN: Betty.

NGUYEN: Turning to security news now, U.S. and British navel investigators are try to determine how an intruder was able to breach security and board the aircraft carrier the USS Truman.

Our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr, joins us now live with all these details. Very interesting that this was even allowed to happen.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Betty, it's a story that's still unfolding. Initially reported several weeks ago, with some very sketchy details in the British news media. But now more of those details coming to light.

It was last month off Portsmouth Harbor in southern England the aircraft carrier Harry Truman was anchored offshore, making a port call. And indeed, somehow an intruder got on board. Both U.S. Navy and Royal Navy investigators now looking at this very significant security breach.

The man was determined not to be a terrorist. But that really is beside the point right now because security was indeed breached.

Somehow this man got past British Royal Navy security on the Portsmouth docks, boarded a small ferry boat that was taking members of the Truman back out to sea to their ship, and then got on board the Truman. He was apparently on board for about half an hour before Truman security forces determined he was an intruder and found him.

They conducted an immediate security search on board the ship, determined he had not placed any explosives or caused any damage. But, Betty, the reason this is so significant, of course, it was about five years ago the USS Cole bombed in Yemen, in the harbor in Yemen, 17 sailors killed in that terrorist attack you see here. And ever since the Cole attack, the Navy has had very stringent security standards when its warships are in port.

But apparently last month a serious breach.

This man is said to be of west African descent. He is said to be known to British law enforcement authority. He has attempted to breach security at other British facilities. But now a separate inquiry under way as to how all of this happened on board a U.S. Navy aircraft carrier -- Betty.

NGUYEN: CNN's Barbara Starr, we thank you.

The FBI is investigating a young hacker suspected of compromising the computers controlling the Internet. The teenager has been charged as a juvenile in Sweden. He says he infiltrated systems serving the U.S. military research labs and NASA, but it is unclear if the juvenile can be prosecuted for violating U.S. laws. Now, we will talk more about computer security in just a bit with the notorious ex- hacker Kevin Mitnick.

O'BRIEN: More than a thousand fake IDs designed to look like law enforcement badges have authorities a little bit worried in New York. They say they found the counterfeit badges at Sergio Khorosh's home in the Bronx.

The badges were from 35 agencies, including the FBI, Drug Enforcement Agency, New York Police, the Air Marshals, you name it. Authorities say the badges were being sold over the Internet and there's concern some may have fallen into the hands of terrorists.

Depend on CNN day and nights to keep you updated on all the important news about your security.

Computer security in the spotlight next, the hacker who may have cracked the systems at Cisco, NASA, and some U.S. military sites. Had to be pretty good at it. But master hacker Kevin Mitnick, reformed now, no slouch either, we'll talk with him next.

NGUYEN: And a firefighter lost a winning ticket worth -- get this, Miles -- $800,000. But this Derby day nightmare does have a happy ending.

O'BRIEN: That would be my life, to win and then lose the ticket.

And somebody please name this child. Her parents are stuck, they can't find the perfect name for their one-and-a-half-year-old baby girl, cute as a little button.

What do you think, Betty, Miles?

NGUYEN: For a little girl?

O'BRIEN: Kind of cute for a girl. Millie? I don't know.

NGUYEN: Betty. Let's go with Betty.

O'BRIEN: We'll weigh in with some thoughts after a break.

NGUYEN: OK.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: This just in. We are getting some video out of Iraq. Some of the first video from the raids that are taking place there.

U.S. forces have been on this region here in Iraq which is near the Syrian border. Now, this is the third straight day where U.S. forces have been attacking insurgents in this region which are believed to be taking refuge and planning attacks near the porous border of Syria.

And again, this is the first video that we are receiving here at CNN from the raids that are taking place in Iraq, the third straight day of raids there. We'll continue to update you on this and bring you the latest when it becomes available to us -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Well, the Internet certainly is an astounding phenomenon. And so, in many ways, it mirrors the real world, the good, the bad, and the spam. Many things that make it useful also make it vulnerable to attack. And as it so often goes, the trail to those who try to break into computers on the Internet is leading to a teenager with some time, some brains, a computer and maybe a malicious streak.

Kevin Mitnick knows all about the vulnerabilities of computers. He is an infamous or famous, depending on who you ask, ex-hacker. He's out with a new book called "The Art of Intrusion." That's his second effort.

Kevin, good to have you on the program.

Thank you, Miles. Great to be here.

O'BRIEN: Let's talk about this current attack, what we know about it. Based on what you've heard, is this particular person or persons a particularly clever hacker? KEVIN MITNICK, FMR. COMPUTER HACKER: He could be. Apparently, he was being monitored when he had already hacked into a group of laboratory computers. And they had monitored him retrieving passwords from a program that he installed at Cisco. And he was able to harvest these log-in names and password to gain access to Cisco's systems to steal their source code.

O'BRIEN: All right. And we -- that's a lot of -- for people who don't know much about computers, that's a little bit of gobbledygook. But basically what that does is give you some access to sort of the back doors of computers. I think the term you use is "root," right?

MITNICK: Well, what he did is he modified a program that is part of the operating system of the computer. So it secretly would take people's user names and passwords and store them, and then it would send him those user names and passwords later so he could access those systems.

O'BRIEN: All right. And does this remind you of something you might have done in another day and age?

MITNICK: Yes, absolutely. A decade ago I used to use the same M.O. to gain access to computers as well.

O'BRIEN: All right. And so let's talk for a moment and clarify. Because there's a lot of misunderstanding about this. What was your motive, and what do you suspect the motive was in this particular case?

MITNICK: My motive at the time was the pursuit of knowledge, the intellectual challenge, and being the best at circumventing security. In this case, from what I understand, it could be the bragging rights. He could have peers that were also hackers and he wanted to prove how clever he was to his peers.

O'BRIEN: All right. And based on what you've seen you think he might have actually proven himself to be pretty good at it. We've heard about the possibility he got into some NASA computers, some military computers. But what we're also hearing is -- and of course this is probably not a surprise to people -- is that the most sensitive information at those sites isn't available on the Web at all. It's not online.

And that's an important point, isn't it?

MITNICK: Well, we hope so. Don't forget, DOD contractors that do unclassified work, sometimes information on those systems could lead to information that is sensitive, but not classified. So he certainly...

O'BRIEN: Yes. You know, and I should -- I got to say this video, we shouldn't be showing this, because they didn't hack into mission control in Houston. I apologize for that. It was at Jet Propulsion Lab, a Web site there.

Why don't you finish your point there so we can press on. MITNICK: Yes. The important thing is, is this guy in Sweden allegedly exploited known vulnerabilities. And because these government agencies, because these companies did not -- they were not vigilant in patching their systems, that's what led to this attack. So unfortunately, because he didn't patch, they turned out to be the low-hanging fruit.

O'BRIEN: All right. What's interesting to me about all this is how much this probably goes on and we never hear about it.

You probably hear about a lot more that never gets on to front page of "The New York Times" or on to CNN. How much is this happening every day? How vulnerable really is the Internet?

MITNICK: We're extremely vulnerable. This is happening all the time.

When I wrote my new book, "The Art of Intrusion," I literally interviewed maybe 50 to 75 people that were doing it at the time. And then, of course, I chose the stories that would be most applicable to go in the book. So we really live in an insecure environment, and it's up to us to exercise certain protocols to make us more secure.

O'BRIEN: Yes, but just passwords and firewalls aren't enough, are they?

MITNICK: No, it's -- security is a component -- an information security program has components. It's about training your people. It's about developing processes. It's about using technology. And most importantly, it's configuring that technology correctly.

O'BRIEN: Kevin Mitnick...

MITNICK: A lot of hackers...

O'BRIEN: Yes. Go ahead, finish.

MITNICK: A lot of hackers exploit misconfigurations that system administrators actually end up doing on their systems.

O'BRIEN: All right. Kevin Mitnick, who is the author of the book "The Art of Intrusion," his second publication. A man who has long experience on the dark side, if you will, spent a little time in jail as a result. Now telling the world about the world of hackers.

Thank you.

MITNICK: Thank you, Miles. Remember, patch those systems.

O'BRIEN: Patch those systems. Good last words for that interview.

All right. Stick with CNN 24/7. We'll keep you posted about how to protect your computers and, of course, all the other news affecting your security. NGUYEN: Working the mean streets of Miami, there is more to the job than murder investigations. Ride along with a real CSI detective later right here on LIVE FROM.

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Susan Lisovicz at the New York Stock Exchange. A major airline and its workers are squaring off once again. I'll tell you what's behind this latest round up next on LIVE FROM.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: One of the big worries for some expectant parents is coming up with the perfect name for their baby. Well, for a couple in Tucson, Arizona, the task is dragging on more than a year after their baby daughter was born. Terry Gonzalez with our affiliate KGUN explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TERRY GONZALEZ, REPORTER, KGUN (voice-over): When Andrew Heatley and Mary Lane had their second child, a baby girl, they left the hospital without giving her a name.

MARY LANE, MOTHER OF NAMELESS BABY: We decided to wait and see her and see if she had her own personality and see what went with her. So we decided to wait.

GONZALEZ: And wait they did. On her first birthday, her cake read "Happy Birthday, Baby." At the doctor's office, she's known as "Baby Girl Lane." Today, at one and a half, she is still nameless.

LANE: There's no name out there that's her. Because she's so...

ANDREW HEATLEY, FATHER OF NAMELESS BABY: Yes, it would have been easier to name her when we didn't know her.

GONZALEZ: Older sister Mia has a name. But younger sister just goes by "Baby."

LANE: We started calling her "The Baby," "The Babe," and it turned into "The Bobe (ph)," and then we call her Bobie (ph).

GONZALEZ: Andrew and Mary did have some possibilities, but they say there's just no name that really seems to fit.

(on camera): Now, I can empathize with Mary and Andrew to some extent. At 7 months pregnant, my husband and I just cannot decide what to name our baby girl. But I can't imagine being in their situation a year and a half from now?

(voice-over): Mom and dad know some people think they are crazy for not naming their baby yet. They've taken their share of criticism and, Mary says, some people are downright rude about it. Others are just impatient. LANE: So my mom's like -- she used to call me -- she calls me every day and asks me, "Have you named the baby yet?" And I'm just like, "No, I'll do it tomorrow."

GONZALEZ: Since little Bobie (ph) has no legal name, she has no birth certificate, no Social Security number, and she can't even be claimed as a tax deduction. Mary has collected books and even dolls that illustrate her plight. They say they'll pick a name sometime soon. Maybe.

Terry Gonzalez, KGUN 9 News.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: All right. I've got the name. I hope they're listening.

NGUYEN: What is it?

O'BRIEN: Noname, N-O-N-A-M-E, Noname.

NGUYEN: You know what? If they wait long enough, she'll be old enough to name herself. Maybe that's the best choice here.

O'BRIEN: Most kids would rather do that anyway. All right.

NGUYEN: Noname?

O'BRIEN: Noname.

NGUYEN: Miles.

O'BRIEN: Noname.

All right. Let's look at some other news making news all "Across America" right now.

Dealing with your local DMV can require a lot of patience, especially if your name is Jesus Christ. Even though a D.C. man has been going by the name for quite some time, he has several legal documents to prove it, apparently, it's not enough for the man born Peter Robert Phillips Jr. to transfer his driver's license from D.C. to West Virginia. State officials say his given name, the one on his Florida birth certificate, is the one he has to go by.

A Phoenix firefighter figured all was lost when he couldn't find his winning Kentucky Derby Superfecta ticket in the trash. But the clerk who sold it to him came to his rescue. She found it next to her machine and returned it.

NGUYEN: Wow.

O'BRIEN: I hope she gets a little (INAUDIBLE). The payoff? After taxes, he won $604,000.

NGUYEN: That's a lucky man, twice over. O'BRIEN: Wow.

NGUYEN: Yes, wow is right.

Hey, United Airlines and its workers, they are squaring off once again as the carrier tries to cut costs.

O'BRIEN: It's hard being in the airline business. Susan Lisovicz watching that. I was reading about Delta today. They're still talking about bankruptcy. It's tough.

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com