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Live From...
D.C. Mayor Left in Dark Over Trespassing Plane; F-16 Pilot Who Intercepted Plane Shares Story; Senate Battle Over Bolton Coming to Close
Aired May 12, 2005 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CO-HOST: A LIVE FROM exclusive, he flew one of the F-16s over the nation's capital during the security scare yesterday. Today, he talks about the experience, the training, and the moment he hopes never comes.
MILES O'BRIEN, CO-HOST: And in the other plane, pilots described as task saturated bumbled their way into protected airspace. How are private pilots trained, and should this be a bigger concern?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love the blood. That's -- the blood is...
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: She loves the blood.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love the blood. That's my favorite.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Tour TV's best equipped autopsy table and meet the real crime fighters behind the super hit "CSI Miami." Dr. Sanjay Gupta's series continues today.
O'BRIEN: And what's for dinner tonight, you ask? How about some Chinese? Get the true story of the fortune cookie with a winning set of lotto numbers, this hour.
From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Miles O'Brien, a busy Thursday May 12.
PHILLIPS: Indeed. And I'm Kyra Phillips. CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.
O'BRIEN: Top story now is high above the Atlantic, closing in on Bangor, Maine, instead of its planned destination of Boston, as we are told.
Air France Flight 332, Paris to Boston, being sent to Bangor over a passenger name that apparently raised some red flags with homeland security officials.
Let me just show you what we're seeing here. This is the plane here. These are all the aircraft coming in across the ocean into the Northeastern Corridor. This is the Air France flight right there.
We're getting some conflicting information from our Flight Explorer software as to its destination. For a time, the three-letter identifier was here, "BGR," Bangor. It has now shifted from Bangor back to Boston. So we don't know if that indicates that they are actually flying to Boston or that's just some sort of leftover information on that computer tag release by the FAA. We're trying to work on that right now.
The plane is due to land about two hours from now, whether it's Boston or Bangor. We will keep you posted on this every step of the way.
Meanwhile, still the buzz of the beltway and well beyond. Yesterday's brazen, though apparently inadvertent, apparently innocent penetration of the nation's most tightly restricted airspace and the code red alert that resulted of course.
The White House, homeland security officials, congressional leaders are saluting the breathless evacuations, simultaneous with the scrambling of F-16s, seen here on some amateur video. And clearly, everyone's relieved at the outcome.
But 24 hours later, some in D.C. are dismayed by what they consider a pound of prevention, while others wonder why they and President Bush were in the dark until the all-clear was sounded.
CNN's Kimberly Osias is following the fall-out on all this for us -- Kimberly.
KIMBERLY OSIAS: Miles, one of the people that was in the dark and says that he was not happy about it was D.C. Mayor Anthony Williams.
Of course, we all know, it was 11:58 Wednesday when the evacuation order was given, the White House, Capitol Hill and the Supreme Court. According to the D.C. mayor's office, Mayor Anthony Williams watched it all on television like many of us and didn't get official word until 25 minutes later.
Williams' office says they received an official page from the Office of Homeland Security at 12:23. According to White House press secretary Scott McClellan, there was a representative from metro police that was in the operations center at the time.
Although investigations are being conducted, both at the federal level and at the local level, too, of what went right and what went wrong, Williams says there's supposed to be ample redundancy in place to prevent delays.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR ANTHONY WILLIAMS, WASHINGTON, D.C.: I think that we made a lot of progress. I think this was a little regression, but we need to keep moving forward. And that's what I want to see. That's why I want to do this review, make the changes that have to be made, either at the local level or, I would hope the federal level.
RICHARD FALKENRATH, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: One sad fact we've learned about crisis communication is that you can never make all the people happy all the time. You almost always end up leaving somebody out of the communications system that, in hindsight, you'd rather have in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OSIAS: Although the White House, Capitol Hill and Supreme Court were all evacuated, the decision was made not to evacuate some buildings: the Pentagon, mayor's office and other D.C. council offices. Analysts say the decision to go or to stay falls on the commanding officers in each building. They say the decision not to evacuate the Pentagon was right.
I spoke with the Department of Homeland Security office just a little while ago, and it says that there are different thresholds for federal, state and local entities. The office says the response system was, in fact, appropriate -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Kimberly Osias from Washington, thank you -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Well, the plane was small, but it was also nearer the White House than any unauthorized aircraft had dared to venture since 9/11. It stayed on course, despite repeated attempts to wave it off, forcing an array of first responders to assume the worse.
CNN got an exclusive look at the process a few months back when I chance to go along on a NORAD training mission that was chilling in its authenticity. When an alarm sounded yesterday, I had a chance also to talk to my NORAD contacts once again.
And now we're happy to talk exclusively with Lieutenant Colonel Tim Lehmann, from the 121st Fighter Squadron, one of two Air National Guard F-16 pilots who went eyeball to eyeball with the trespassers.
Can you hear me OK, sir?
COL. TIM LEHMANN, U.S. AIR NATIONAL GUARD: I'm sorry, Kyra. Could you repeat that, please?
PHILLIPS: You bet. Colonel Lehmann, you can hear me OK, right?
LEHMANN: Yes, I can, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Very good. I know, the little audio pack there on the side of you can be a bit confusing. Want to make sure you can hear me well. An important subject.
First of all, Colonel, great to have you with us. We appreciate you talking to us. Why don't you tell us how it all began yesterday?
LEHMANN: I'd be happy to, Kyra. I actually was just about finishing my lunch when our alert klaxon went off. And we ran to the jet, and all of our F-16s, which you see in the background, are hot- cocked, and that means all their switches are ready to go. So we jumped in the airplane quickly and we rolled very quickly and are in the air. I can tell you that yesterday we were in the air at 11:57, to begin our intercept.
PHILLIPS: And of course, this is exactly what you train for, Colonel. Now you had the real deal. There was a plane apparently headed toward the White House in restricted airspace. What was going through your mind at the time?
LEHMANN: Well, Kyra, first off, as I raised the gear, I was happy to be flying for that day, as most fighter pilots are. So I was -- I was glad to get in the air.
And immediately we had a radar contact with our target of interest, and the FAA, air traffic control here in Washington, D.C., it's in Potomac, they did an excellent job vectoring us on to the target of interest.
As we intercepted it, we were about 12 miles north of Washington, D.C., north of the capital, and the intercept went well. As we intercepted it, there were some customs aircraft already on the wing of this particular aircraft. And we executed procedures, where the customs aircraft will pull away from our target of interest, and then we took over the intercept at that point.
PHILLIPS: Of course, when we talk about target of interest, we're talking about that Cessna, the pilot that was flying that plane into restricted airspace.
When did you finally get the pilot's attention? I know you gave off all the visual signals. You even dropped the flares. At what point did the pilot finally respond to you and you were able to develop communications?
LEHMANN: Well, Kyra, that was a difficult period. We were authorized to dispense flares. And I was the first one to pass that aircraft and dropping flares. When I did so, we did not get a response. The aircraft continued on its southward heading, toward our nation's capital.
We operate as two ships, and while I went past him -- because I can't fly slow enough to stay on the wing of this aircraft, we spin and we have about three miles between myself and the other F-16. So we will orchestrate, if you will, an oval, a rotating oval, around the target of interest.
I went by first, dropped flares. It -- the TOI did not respond. And then the other F-16 went past. He dropped flares, as well. Still, we do not get a response from the TOI.
It wasn't until the third time we went past and dropped flares, that seemed to get his attention. And I believe at that point, the TOI realized, hey, something -- something is definitely wrong here. And that's when he changed his course.
PHILLIPS: And when did you actually talk to him? Was it after you dropped the flares that you were able to engage in conversation on the guard frequency, on the emergency frequency?
LEHMANN: That's exactly right, Kyra. The track of interest had turn to a westbound heading and it was then that we were able to contact him on a VHF guard frequency, and we spoke to the pilot. And other agencies had also just -- are gaining radio contact with him at that time, and he was instructed to proceed to Frederick.
PHILLIPS: So what did you say to him, Colonel, and how did he respond? Did he seem nervous? Did he seem confused? Was he cooperative with you?
LEHMANN: Well, Kyra, it was actually the other F-16 pilot who spoke to him, Major Oxneed (ph), and he said the pilot was very nervous, somewhat shaken, but still able to communicate. And he said, "OK, I understand. We're directed to go to Frederick and land." And he complied with those instructions.
PHILLIPS: All right, Colonel, I want to point something out and be very specific here, because a lot of questions were asked yesterday in the White House briefing, a lot of reporters asking, did you get the shoot down order, you know, were you told to shoot down this aircraft if he didn't respond?
Now it never got to that point. You did not get that call or that instruction from NORAD or from the president, because you deemed that this was not a threat. It was not in the attack profile. Explain to our viewers why you didn't have to shoot that aircraft down.
LEHMANN: Well, Kyra, the national capital region is defended with a layered defense. And as a target of interest turns up on the radar scope, decisions are already being made as to whether we consider this a high threat, medium threat or low threat.
And those decisions are being made at a national command authority level, a very high level of the military chain of command and civilian chain of command. And as they assessed this aircraft, relatively light aircraft, they did not accept it as a high threat- type of environment. So that order was never given to shoot it down.
The one thing I think the American public should understand, that there is a layered defense around our nation's capital. We are not the only ones who can engage and bring down tracks of interest.
And I'd like to assure your listeners that that airplane would not have penetrated -- it would not have hit anything in D.C. And it would have been dropped from the sky before that would have happened.
PHILLIPS: Point well made. And you know, I have to ask you this Colonel. Aside from this incident, you do train specifically to shoot an aircraft down if the command is given. Thank goodness it wasn't given in this case. But if you had to do it, are you ready for that, and mentally, how do you prepare yourself to do that?
LEHMANN: Well, Kyra, we rely on our training. And our training prepares us very well for that moment. And heaven forbid, if that moment ever occurs. I don't -- I certainly never wish for that to occur. But my squadron, we stand ready to defend our nation's capital as necessary whenever it is necessary. So if I am directed by a higher authority, I will execute that mission.
PHILLIPS: Lieutenant Colonel Timothy Lehmann, we commend you, sir, from the 121st Fighter Squadron, based out of Andrews Air Force Base. We watched you yesterday, obviously, for a couple hours. And we appreciate your time today. And thank you so much.
LEHMANN: Thanks for inviting me on, Kyra. It's nice talking with you.
PHILLIPS: It was a pleasure.
CNN is committed to providing the most reliable coverage of news that affects your security. Coming up in about 20 minutes, Miles is going to talk to John and Martha King, leaders in flight training. Among the topics of discussion, are there too many restrictions on private pilots -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: It's not a wayward plane causing shockwaves in the Senate this hour. It's the showdown over the man critics call the undiplomatic diplomat, John Bolton, seemingly poised to survive a committee vote on his nomination to represent the U.S. at the United Nations.
But you should hear that even some Republicans are saying some bad things about him. CNN's Andrea Koppel got an earful -- Andrea.
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Miles. Not about the man that you just saw on the screen there, Norm Coleman, who's a Republican of Minnesota, spoke out very strongly, continuing to do so, in favor of the Bolton nomination.
But the man who did speak out very strongly against the nomination is someone whose name has become well known to people following this story in recent weeks. His name is George Voinovich of Ohio, a Republican who has said even though he will vote against Bolton when this goes to the floor of the Senate, he's going to support the nomination at least to get it out of committee.
What that means is that the vote will be up to all the senators, the 100 of them, to decide whether or not John Bolton will become the next U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. Voinovich's rationale was that even though he liked Voinovich personally, spent a couple hours talking with him in recent weeks, he felt that he was the wrong man for the job at this time. He said if Bolton were in a corporation, rather than working for the U.S. government, he would have been fired.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. GEORGE VOINOVICH (R-OH), FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE: This is not the behavior of a true leader who upholds the kind of democracy that President Bush is seeking to promote globally. This is not the behavior that should be endorsed as the face of the United States to world community in the United Nations. Rather, Mr. Chairman, it is my opinion that John Bolton is the poster child of what someone in the diplomatic corps should not be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KOPPEL: Needless to say, the Bolton nomination has been hotly contested since it first came to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.
On the one hand, Bolton has won a lot of praise from his supporters, some of them Republican, saying that he is eminently qualified. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said that to Larry King just yesterday.
But his detractors have said that he is someone who's hot-headed. There have been all kind of allegations that have been floated in recent weeks. And that's what the committee is looking at that. They've been talking to a variety of current and former U.S. officials.
And Senator Richard Lugar, who's the chairman of this committee, said basically enough is enough. He said, when does the desire for truth turn into partisanship? Here's more of what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. RICHARD LUGAR (R-IN), CHAIR, FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE: The picture is one of an aggressive policymaker who pressed his missions at every opportunity and argued vociferously for his point of view. In the process, his blunt style alienated some colleagues, but there is no evidence that he has broken laws or engaged in serious ethical misconduct.
At the core of any nomination process is the question of whether the nominee is qualified to undertake the task for which he or she is nominated. I have no doubts that Secretary Bolton is extremely well qualified.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KOPPEL: So as for today, there could be another hour and a half, two hours, of debate that remains before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. But in the very near future, Miles, you can expect, most likely, that there will be an up or down vote on the floor of the Senate. Democrats are vowing to fight it -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Andrea Koppel, on Capitol Hill, thank you very much -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: From a fight for a job to the fight of their lives. Taking on the insurgents. Our guest is on the front lines. Find out how the Iraq war is going, next.
And how could those Cessna pilots have made their spectacular mistake yesterday? We're going to talk with some of the best flight trainers in the country this hour for a few clues.
Also ahead, crime scene investigation. The real deal with our Dr. Sanjay Gupta, "Anatomy of Murder," coming up.
ANNOUNCER: You're watching LIVE FROM on CNN, the most trusted name in news.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Suicide bombers set off two separate blasts within hours of each other in Iraq today. The worst one, by far, detonated in a crowded East Baghdad marketplace at midday. Twelve people killed, nearly 60 wounded. It happened in a mostly Shiite part of the city. The other bomb targeted a U.S. military convoy west of the capital. Nobody besides the bomber killed there.
And news today in the hunt for this man, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. Iraqi security officials released today that a man in custody since last month is a financier for the Zarqawi-led terror network. Al- Zarqawi is the reputed leader of al Qaeda's operatives in Iraq and considered the most wanted fugitive in the country.
In the deadliest of several insurgent attacks yesterday, a car bomb exploded in central Tikrit. More than two dozen killed there, all Iraqis. An extremist group that claimed responsibility posted on a web site said that it is targeting people who work for the American military.
The top American commander for that region joining us now, Army Major General Joseph Taluto, commander of the New York-based 42nd Infantry. General Taluto, good to have you with us.
MAJ. GEN. JOSEPH TALUTO, COMMANDER, 42ST INFANTRY: Hello, Miles.
O'BRIEN: Seems quite clear that the insurgency is gathering steam here. What is going on?
TALUTO: Well, I think they're making an all-out push right now to disrupt the new newly-elected and seated national assembly. They're trying to make headway in here to drive a wedge in between the Shia and the Sunni population. They're trying to take advantage of any political dissent that's going on, which is just normal in a democracy.
So this is an ideal time for them to bring up their attacks and try to have an impact. And as you can see from the attacks we had here yesterday, that was against Shia, poor Shia laborers who were waiting to pick up some work here in the Tikrit area. They were targeted. Unlike what they say on TV about targeting people that work with the coalition, these people just wanted to go out and do some hard work and make some money.
O'BRIEN: General, I know you're a military man. I know that military people tend to steer clear of politics here. But the whole question of the Sunnis is an important and unanswered question politically there, and it obviously is affecting you and your personnel on a daily basis.
What can be done about this? It clearly has to be resolved or you're going to face increased violence, aren't you?
TALUTO: Well, it has to be resolved. And it has to be resolved by the Iraqi government.
This is the process. The process is that they had an election. Unfortunately, for the Sunnis, they didn't participate as fully as they should have and now realize that. Frankly, we -- I talked to a lot of Sunni leaders here in this region. And they tell me that they're going to vote in the referendum and they're going to certainly come out for the next permanent election. So they understand that.
I think the importance of this period of time here is that the government understand -- and I think they do, very clearly -- that the Sunnis have to participate in the process of writing a constitution. And that hard work is going on.
It's not easy. And there's quite a bit of political dissent, but if they can work through this in a good, political process, without resorting to violence, we're going to be fine. The problem is...
O'BRIEN: But, general, that's a huge, huge "if," as you point out there. That is a huge "if." How much help are you able to get from Iraqis at all at this point, given the risks that they face being associated with American troops?
TALUTO: You'd be surprised how much the Iraqi populous has -- is cooperating with us right now. It's very good.
We get -- we have people take us every day to find IEDs that they know exist. They take us to caches where ammunition supplies are, and they call in tips to their own joint coordination centers in all their cities. They cooperate with the Iraqi security police, and they cooperate with the Iraqi army. There's quite a bit of cooperation going on here.
Of course, they're frustrated by these attacks. They certainly want them to stop. But that's the fight. That's the insurgency. And I -- the people are, in many places, are disgusted with it.
O'BRIEN: It must be hard to remain optimistic about the outcome there. Where do you sit?
TALUTO: I'm optimistic. I think, first of all, that this is not a fight that we're going to lose, first and foremost. I do believe that, in addition to helping the Iraqi people find democracy here in the Middle East, that this is the front line on a global war of terrorism. I feel that way very strongly.
I think that al Qaeda and all the extremists that are out there have a lot of -- a lot at stake here. And you can see that they're desperate and that they will, you know, hold nothing back. They're going all out.
But progress continues to be made here. Is it impeded at times? Yes, it is. But progress continues to be made. And it's not going to -- so that's why I remain optimistic. It takes patience and persistence, and we're going to stay with it.
O'BRIEN: Major General Joseph Taluto, commander of the 42nd I.D., thanks for your time.
TALUTO: Thank you. Thanks, Miles.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN (voice-over): Later on LIVE FROM...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's go, folks. Get off your cell phones. Move out of the building, come on.
O'BRIEN: Yesterday's security alert in the capital is sure to be a topic when Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Joint Chiefs Chairman Richard Myers face reporters today at the Pentagon. We will bring it to you live.
Also coming up, the man with three faces. King Tut, back in the news. Which artist rendering do you think is the real boy king? That guy looks familiar.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Looking across America now and looking up, way up. Nine stories up. A Ft. Lauderdale apartment house. That's where a 69-year-old Gloria Jummati was cleaning her balcony yesterday and fell. Now stay with me here. She landed on a canvas awning. She bounced, she bonked, she bruised a bit, but she's fine. And she should have bought a lottery ticket.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired May 12, 2005 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CO-HOST: A LIVE FROM exclusive, he flew one of the F-16s over the nation's capital during the security scare yesterday. Today, he talks about the experience, the training, and the moment he hopes never comes.
MILES O'BRIEN, CO-HOST: And in the other plane, pilots described as task saturated bumbled their way into protected airspace. How are private pilots trained, and should this be a bigger concern?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love the blood. That's -- the blood is...
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: She loves the blood.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love the blood. That's my favorite.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Tour TV's best equipped autopsy table and meet the real crime fighters behind the super hit "CSI Miami." Dr. Sanjay Gupta's series continues today.
O'BRIEN: And what's for dinner tonight, you ask? How about some Chinese? Get the true story of the fortune cookie with a winning set of lotto numbers, this hour.
From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Miles O'Brien, a busy Thursday May 12.
PHILLIPS: Indeed. And I'm Kyra Phillips. CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.
O'BRIEN: Top story now is high above the Atlantic, closing in on Bangor, Maine, instead of its planned destination of Boston, as we are told.
Air France Flight 332, Paris to Boston, being sent to Bangor over a passenger name that apparently raised some red flags with homeland security officials.
Let me just show you what we're seeing here. This is the plane here. These are all the aircraft coming in across the ocean into the Northeastern Corridor. This is the Air France flight right there.
We're getting some conflicting information from our Flight Explorer software as to its destination. For a time, the three-letter identifier was here, "BGR," Bangor. It has now shifted from Bangor back to Boston. So we don't know if that indicates that they are actually flying to Boston or that's just some sort of leftover information on that computer tag release by the FAA. We're trying to work on that right now.
The plane is due to land about two hours from now, whether it's Boston or Bangor. We will keep you posted on this every step of the way.
Meanwhile, still the buzz of the beltway and well beyond. Yesterday's brazen, though apparently inadvertent, apparently innocent penetration of the nation's most tightly restricted airspace and the code red alert that resulted of course.
The White House, homeland security officials, congressional leaders are saluting the breathless evacuations, simultaneous with the scrambling of F-16s, seen here on some amateur video. And clearly, everyone's relieved at the outcome.
But 24 hours later, some in D.C. are dismayed by what they consider a pound of prevention, while others wonder why they and President Bush were in the dark until the all-clear was sounded.
CNN's Kimberly Osias is following the fall-out on all this for us -- Kimberly.
KIMBERLY OSIAS: Miles, one of the people that was in the dark and says that he was not happy about it was D.C. Mayor Anthony Williams.
Of course, we all know, it was 11:58 Wednesday when the evacuation order was given, the White House, Capitol Hill and the Supreme Court. According to the D.C. mayor's office, Mayor Anthony Williams watched it all on television like many of us and didn't get official word until 25 minutes later.
Williams' office says they received an official page from the Office of Homeland Security at 12:23. According to White House press secretary Scott McClellan, there was a representative from metro police that was in the operations center at the time.
Although investigations are being conducted, both at the federal level and at the local level, too, of what went right and what went wrong, Williams says there's supposed to be ample redundancy in place to prevent delays.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR ANTHONY WILLIAMS, WASHINGTON, D.C.: I think that we made a lot of progress. I think this was a little regression, but we need to keep moving forward. And that's what I want to see. That's why I want to do this review, make the changes that have to be made, either at the local level or, I would hope the federal level.
RICHARD FALKENRATH, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: One sad fact we've learned about crisis communication is that you can never make all the people happy all the time. You almost always end up leaving somebody out of the communications system that, in hindsight, you'd rather have in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OSIAS: Although the White House, Capitol Hill and Supreme Court were all evacuated, the decision was made not to evacuate some buildings: the Pentagon, mayor's office and other D.C. council offices. Analysts say the decision to go or to stay falls on the commanding officers in each building. They say the decision not to evacuate the Pentagon was right.
I spoke with the Department of Homeland Security office just a little while ago, and it says that there are different thresholds for federal, state and local entities. The office says the response system was, in fact, appropriate -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Kimberly Osias from Washington, thank you -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Well, the plane was small, but it was also nearer the White House than any unauthorized aircraft had dared to venture since 9/11. It stayed on course, despite repeated attempts to wave it off, forcing an array of first responders to assume the worse.
CNN got an exclusive look at the process a few months back when I chance to go along on a NORAD training mission that was chilling in its authenticity. When an alarm sounded yesterday, I had a chance also to talk to my NORAD contacts once again.
And now we're happy to talk exclusively with Lieutenant Colonel Tim Lehmann, from the 121st Fighter Squadron, one of two Air National Guard F-16 pilots who went eyeball to eyeball with the trespassers.
Can you hear me OK, sir?
COL. TIM LEHMANN, U.S. AIR NATIONAL GUARD: I'm sorry, Kyra. Could you repeat that, please?
PHILLIPS: You bet. Colonel Lehmann, you can hear me OK, right?
LEHMANN: Yes, I can, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Very good. I know, the little audio pack there on the side of you can be a bit confusing. Want to make sure you can hear me well. An important subject.
First of all, Colonel, great to have you with us. We appreciate you talking to us. Why don't you tell us how it all began yesterday?
LEHMANN: I'd be happy to, Kyra. I actually was just about finishing my lunch when our alert klaxon went off. And we ran to the jet, and all of our F-16s, which you see in the background, are hot- cocked, and that means all their switches are ready to go. So we jumped in the airplane quickly and we rolled very quickly and are in the air. I can tell you that yesterday we were in the air at 11:57, to begin our intercept.
PHILLIPS: And of course, this is exactly what you train for, Colonel. Now you had the real deal. There was a plane apparently headed toward the White House in restricted airspace. What was going through your mind at the time?
LEHMANN: Well, Kyra, first off, as I raised the gear, I was happy to be flying for that day, as most fighter pilots are. So I was -- I was glad to get in the air.
And immediately we had a radar contact with our target of interest, and the FAA, air traffic control here in Washington, D.C., it's in Potomac, they did an excellent job vectoring us on to the target of interest.
As we intercepted it, we were about 12 miles north of Washington, D.C., north of the capital, and the intercept went well. As we intercepted it, there were some customs aircraft already on the wing of this particular aircraft. And we executed procedures, where the customs aircraft will pull away from our target of interest, and then we took over the intercept at that point.
PHILLIPS: Of course, when we talk about target of interest, we're talking about that Cessna, the pilot that was flying that plane into restricted airspace.
When did you finally get the pilot's attention? I know you gave off all the visual signals. You even dropped the flares. At what point did the pilot finally respond to you and you were able to develop communications?
LEHMANN: Well, Kyra, that was a difficult period. We were authorized to dispense flares. And I was the first one to pass that aircraft and dropping flares. When I did so, we did not get a response. The aircraft continued on its southward heading, toward our nation's capital.
We operate as two ships, and while I went past him -- because I can't fly slow enough to stay on the wing of this aircraft, we spin and we have about three miles between myself and the other F-16. So we will orchestrate, if you will, an oval, a rotating oval, around the target of interest.
I went by first, dropped flares. It -- the TOI did not respond. And then the other F-16 went past. He dropped flares, as well. Still, we do not get a response from the TOI.
It wasn't until the third time we went past and dropped flares, that seemed to get his attention. And I believe at that point, the TOI realized, hey, something -- something is definitely wrong here. And that's when he changed his course.
PHILLIPS: And when did you actually talk to him? Was it after you dropped the flares that you were able to engage in conversation on the guard frequency, on the emergency frequency?
LEHMANN: That's exactly right, Kyra. The track of interest had turn to a westbound heading and it was then that we were able to contact him on a VHF guard frequency, and we spoke to the pilot. And other agencies had also just -- are gaining radio contact with him at that time, and he was instructed to proceed to Frederick.
PHILLIPS: So what did you say to him, Colonel, and how did he respond? Did he seem nervous? Did he seem confused? Was he cooperative with you?
LEHMANN: Well, Kyra, it was actually the other F-16 pilot who spoke to him, Major Oxneed (ph), and he said the pilot was very nervous, somewhat shaken, but still able to communicate. And he said, "OK, I understand. We're directed to go to Frederick and land." And he complied with those instructions.
PHILLIPS: All right, Colonel, I want to point something out and be very specific here, because a lot of questions were asked yesterday in the White House briefing, a lot of reporters asking, did you get the shoot down order, you know, were you told to shoot down this aircraft if he didn't respond?
Now it never got to that point. You did not get that call or that instruction from NORAD or from the president, because you deemed that this was not a threat. It was not in the attack profile. Explain to our viewers why you didn't have to shoot that aircraft down.
LEHMANN: Well, Kyra, the national capital region is defended with a layered defense. And as a target of interest turns up on the radar scope, decisions are already being made as to whether we consider this a high threat, medium threat or low threat.
And those decisions are being made at a national command authority level, a very high level of the military chain of command and civilian chain of command. And as they assessed this aircraft, relatively light aircraft, they did not accept it as a high threat- type of environment. So that order was never given to shoot it down.
The one thing I think the American public should understand, that there is a layered defense around our nation's capital. We are not the only ones who can engage and bring down tracks of interest.
And I'd like to assure your listeners that that airplane would not have penetrated -- it would not have hit anything in D.C. And it would have been dropped from the sky before that would have happened.
PHILLIPS: Point well made. And you know, I have to ask you this Colonel. Aside from this incident, you do train specifically to shoot an aircraft down if the command is given. Thank goodness it wasn't given in this case. But if you had to do it, are you ready for that, and mentally, how do you prepare yourself to do that?
LEHMANN: Well, Kyra, we rely on our training. And our training prepares us very well for that moment. And heaven forbid, if that moment ever occurs. I don't -- I certainly never wish for that to occur. But my squadron, we stand ready to defend our nation's capital as necessary whenever it is necessary. So if I am directed by a higher authority, I will execute that mission.
PHILLIPS: Lieutenant Colonel Timothy Lehmann, we commend you, sir, from the 121st Fighter Squadron, based out of Andrews Air Force Base. We watched you yesterday, obviously, for a couple hours. And we appreciate your time today. And thank you so much.
LEHMANN: Thanks for inviting me on, Kyra. It's nice talking with you.
PHILLIPS: It was a pleasure.
CNN is committed to providing the most reliable coverage of news that affects your security. Coming up in about 20 minutes, Miles is going to talk to John and Martha King, leaders in flight training. Among the topics of discussion, are there too many restrictions on private pilots -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: It's not a wayward plane causing shockwaves in the Senate this hour. It's the showdown over the man critics call the undiplomatic diplomat, John Bolton, seemingly poised to survive a committee vote on his nomination to represent the U.S. at the United Nations.
But you should hear that even some Republicans are saying some bad things about him. CNN's Andrea Koppel got an earful -- Andrea.
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Miles. Not about the man that you just saw on the screen there, Norm Coleman, who's a Republican of Minnesota, spoke out very strongly, continuing to do so, in favor of the Bolton nomination.
But the man who did speak out very strongly against the nomination is someone whose name has become well known to people following this story in recent weeks. His name is George Voinovich of Ohio, a Republican who has said even though he will vote against Bolton when this goes to the floor of the Senate, he's going to support the nomination at least to get it out of committee.
What that means is that the vote will be up to all the senators, the 100 of them, to decide whether or not John Bolton will become the next U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. Voinovich's rationale was that even though he liked Voinovich personally, spent a couple hours talking with him in recent weeks, he felt that he was the wrong man for the job at this time. He said if Bolton were in a corporation, rather than working for the U.S. government, he would have been fired.
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SEN. GEORGE VOINOVICH (R-OH), FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE: This is not the behavior of a true leader who upholds the kind of democracy that President Bush is seeking to promote globally. This is not the behavior that should be endorsed as the face of the United States to world community in the United Nations. Rather, Mr. Chairman, it is my opinion that John Bolton is the poster child of what someone in the diplomatic corps should not be.
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KOPPEL: Needless to say, the Bolton nomination has been hotly contested since it first came to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.
On the one hand, Bolton has won a lot of praise from his supporters, some of them Republican, saying that he is eminently qualified. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said that to Larry King just yesterday.
But his detractors have said that he is someone who's hot-headed. There have been all kind of allegations that have been floated in recent weeks. And that's what the committee is looking at that. They've been talking to a variety of current and former U.S. officials.
And Senator Richard Lugar, who's the chairman of this committee, said basically enough is enough. He said, when does the desire for truth turn into partisanship? Here's more of what he had to say.
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SEN. RICHARD LUGAR (R-IN), CHAIR, FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE: The picture is one of an aggressive policymaker who pressed his missions at every opportunity and argued vociferously for his point of view. In the process, his blunt style alienated some colleagues, but there is no evidence that he has broken laws or engaged in serious ethical misconduct.
At the core of any nomination process is the question of whether the nominee is qualified to undertake the task for which he or she is nominated. I have no doubts that Secretary Bolton is extremely well qualified.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KOPPEL: So as for today, there could be another hour and a half, two hours, of debate that remains before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. But in the very near future, Miles, you can expect, most likely, that there will be an up or down vote on the floor of the Senate. Democrats are vowing to fight it -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Andrea Koppel, on Capitol Hill, thank you very much -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: From a fight for a job to the fight of their lives. Taking on the insurgents. Our guest is on the front lines. Find out how the Iraq war is going, next.
And how could those Cessna pilots have made their spectacular mistake yesterday? We're going to talk with some of the best flight trainers in the country this hour for a few clues.
Also ahead, crime scene investigation. The real deal with our Dr. Sanjay Gupta, "Anatomy of Murder," coming up.
ANNOUNCER: You're watching LIVE FROM on CNN, the most trusted name in news.
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PHILLIPS: Suicide bombers set off two separate blasts within hours of each other in Iraq today. The worst one, by far, detonated in a crowded East Baghdad marketplace at midday. Twelve people killed, nearly 60 wounded. It happened in a mostly Shiite part of the city. The other bomb targeted a U.S. military convoy west of the capital. Nobody besides the bomber killed there.
And news today in the hunt for this man, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. Iraqi security officials released today that a man in custody since last month is a financier for the Zarqawi-led terror network. Al- Zarqawi is the reputed leader of al Qaeda's operatives in Iraq and considered the most wanted fugitive in the country.
In the deadliest of several insurgent attacks yesterday, a car bomb exploded in central Tikrit. More than two dozen killed there, all Iraqis. An extremist group that claimed responsibility posted on a web site said that it is targeting people who work for the American military.
The top American commander for that region joining us now, Army Major General Joseph Taluto, commander of the New York-based 42nd Infantry. General Taluto, good to have you with us.
MAJ. GEN. JOSEPH TALUTO, COMMANDER, 42ST INFANTRY: Hello, Miles.
O'BRIEN: Seems quite clear that the insurgency is gathering steam here. What is going on?
TALUTO: Well, I think they're making an all-out push right now to disrupt the new newly-elected and seated national assembly. They're trying to make headway in here to drive a wedge in between the Shia and the Sunni population. They're trying to take advantage of any political dissent that's going on, which is just normal in a democracy.
So this is an ideal time for them to bring up their attacks and try to have an impact. And as you can see from the attacks we had here yesterday, that was against Shia, poor Shia laborers who were waiting to pick up some work here in the Tikrit area. They were targeted. Unlike what they say on TV about targeting people that work with the coalition, these people just wanted to go out and do some hard work and make some money.
O'BRIEN: General, I know you're a military man. I know that military people tend to steer clear of politics here. But the whole question of the Sunnis is an important and unanswered question politically there, and it obviously is affecting you and your personnel on a daily basis.
What can be done about this? It clearly has to be resolved or you're going to face increased violence, aren't you?
TALUTO: Well, it has to be resolved. And it has to be resolved by the Iraqi government.
This is the process. The process is that they had an election. Unfortunately, for the Sunnis, they didn't participate as fully as they should have and now realize that. Frankly, we -- I talked to a lot of Sunni leaders here in this region. And they tell me that they're going to vote in the referendum and they're going to certainly come out for the next permanent election. So they understand that.
I think the importance of this period of time here is that the government understand -- and I think they do, very clearly -- that the Sunnis have to participate in the process of writing a constitution. And that hard work is going on.
It's not easy. And there's quite a bit of political dissent, but if they can work through this in a good, political process, without resorting to violence, we're going to be fine. The problem is...
O'BRIEN: But, general, that's a huge, huge "if," as you point out there. That is a huge "if." How much help are you able to get from Iraqis at all at this point, given the risks that they face being associated with American troops?
TALUTO: You'd be surprised how much the Iraqi populous has -- is cooperating with us right now. It's very good.
We get -- we have people take us every day to find IEDs that they know exist. They take us to caches where ammunition supplies are, and they call in tips to their own joint coordination centers in all their cities. They cooperate with the Iraqi security police, and they cooperate with the Iraqi army. There's quite a bit of cooperation going on here.
Of course, they're frustrated by these attacks. They certainly want them to stop. But that's the fight. That's the insurgency. And I -- the people are, in many places, are disgusted with it.
O'BRIEN: It must be hard to remain optimistic about the outcome there. Where do you sit?
TALUTO: I'm optimistic. I think, first of all, that this is not a fight that we're going to lose, first and foremost. I do believe that, in addition to helping the Iraqi people find democracy here in the Middle East, that this is the front line on a global war of terrorism. I feel that way very strongly.
I think that al Qaeda and all the extremists that are out there have a lot of -- a lot at stake here. And you can see that they're desperate and that they will, you know, hold nothing back. They're going all out.
But progress continues to be made here. Is it impeded at times? Yes, it is. But progress continues to be made. And it's not going to -- so that's why I remain optimistic. It takes patience and persistence, and we're going to stay with it.
O'BRIEN: Major General Joseph Taluto, commander of the 42nd I.D., thanks for your time.
TALUTO: Thank you. Thanks, Miles.
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O'BRIEN (voice-over): Later on LIVE FROM...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's go, folks. Get off your cell phones. Move out of the building, come on.
O'BRIEN: Yesterday's security alert in the capital is sure to be a topic when Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Joint Chiefs Chairman Richard Myers face reporters today at the Pentagon. We will bring it to you live.
Also coming up, the man with three faces. King Tut, back in the news. Which artist rendering do you think is the real boy king? That guy looks familiar.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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PHILLIPS: Looking across America now and looking up, way up. Nine stories up. A Ft. Lauderdale apartment house. That's where a 69-year-old Gloria Jummati was cleaning her balcony yesterday and fell. Now stay with me here. She landed on a canvas awning. She bounced, she bonked, she bruised a bit, but she's fine. And she should have bought a lottery ticket.
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