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Pope John Paul II Considered For Sainthood; The CSI Effect
Aired May 13, 2005 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Hurricane dividend. Nine months ago today a string of major storms began battering Florida. Folks were stuck at home without electricity for days, so it stands to reason that now the state is bracing for a baby boom. Some doctors expect to deliver twice as many babies as usual next month. Just like a good snowstorm.
And a Yank invades and British rebel. British soccer fans protesting American billionaire Malcolm Glazer's imminent takeover of their beloved Manchester United. Well, Glazer currently owns the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. They had a good season not long ago. Among other things, fans fear he'll raise prices, sell the stadium and in general, bury the club in debt.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, the final final word has not yet been written on the Cessna-150 that brought Washington, D.C. to a halt just a few days ago. There you see it at the end of its odyssey. As it turns out, the two aboard -- the pilot indicated to some authorities that he had some outdated maps or charts, as pilots like to call them, which led him into a part of the airspace which has since been tightened quite a bit post-9/11.
Well, the FAA has released a track, a radar track, of this particular aircraft's path. And I know that's hard for you to read. So first of all, I'm going to highlight exactly the path, give you a sense of what we're talking about. There's the path of the airplane. Right down there is the mall and Washington. There's the Capitol, that kind of thing. Well, let me zoom in a little bit in here and I'll tell you what this proves to any pilot is that no matter what vintage charts, this pilot was in a place that was not a good place to be.
If you look closely here, you see the track of the airplane takes -- that's Silver Spring, Maryland. And then as he gets down here, that's the V.A. Hospital. And then as you get across here, you'll see he comes very close to the U.S. Naval Observatory. As most Washington-familiar people would know, that's the home of the vice president and that is also a prohibited space.
Now if you extend out that line, this is obviously subsequent to the interception by the F-16s. If you extend out the line he was flying, it would take him right across that prohibited airspace into the mall, U.S. naval observatory and down into areas that were prohibited on charts -- really any charts that I would be aware of.
Also, a couple things on this worth pointing out. It also indicates his altitude. I don't know if you can read this right here, but I'll just highlight it for you. His altitude through most of this was about -- let's see, at this time, about 2,000 feet, anywhere between 2,900 feet and 2,000 feet. That would be above mean sea level, so above the ground it would be a little less than that.
There you see him at this location as he made his way toward Frederick, Maryland. And he was at 2,300 feet at the time. By this time, he had a little company with him as he made his way up to the Frederick. So that explanation about the antiquated charts really doesn't hold water, when you look at the chart and the destination and his direction of flight. No matter what vintage charts -- I suppose if he had charts from the 1930s, maybe they told him that it would be OK to fly right over the mall. But in any case, that has been prohibited long before 9/11 -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Well, they shouted "Saint, saint!" at his funeral. And now those who want the ultimate honor for the late Pope John Paul II are closer to getting their wish. His successor put him on the fast track for sainthood today.
Let's talk more about the process. CNN Vatican analyst Delia Gallagher joining us now live from New York. She got a break from Rome. Relaxing a little bit in New York. Great to see you, Delia.
DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Hi, Kyra
PHILLIPS: All right, well, let's talk about this five-year waiting period. This is not the first time the rules have been bent. The last time was Mother Teresa, right?
GALLAGHER: Yes, that's right. I mean, Pope John Paul II set this in motion, kind of fast-track idea. Now, the five-year waiting period is imposed by the Vatican as a time to see whether the popularity of a candidate for sainthood continues after his death. You know, the Vatican doesn't make saints in the sense of choosing people. The candidate has to be brought to the Vatican by the people. So somebody in a diocese somewhere around the world can say, "I would like to bring the cause of this person to the Vatican. I think he should be made a saint."
So there is this five-year waiting period in which the Vatican says, let's see if the popularity of this person continues after his death, and then we will begin to look at the cause. So the fast track means that the Vatican would begin to look at the cause before the five-year waiting period.
PHILLIPS: All right, let's do a little canonization 101 here for our viewers. And it starts with these letters that are kept in a secret dossier, right? And it concerns, of course, not only how this individual lived his or her life, but also there's a miracle factor. So sort of tell us the process here of how it gets to the point where an individual is even considered to be canonized?
GALLAGHER: Right, well, the process, again, has to begin outside of the Vatican. The Vatican doesn't decide who's going to become a saint. Somebody outside decides that they would like to bring this cause. They go to their bishop. The bishop chooses a sort of postulator, somebody who is in charge of collecting all of the data. And that can take many, many years. You have to go through the entire life of a person and see if they lived a what they call a heroically virtuous life. And so you have to interview all of the people that knew him, et cetera.
So this takes a long time, even before you get to the miracles. So you have to establish, one, that he's lived a virtuous life, two, that he or she has done a miracle after their death. The idea of having a saint is that a saint is a person that intercedes for the living people with God. He has to have done this miracle after his death. A miracle during life -- we've heard about the miracles of Pope John Paul II while he was alive -- do not count in the case of beatification and canonization.
So once all of that material is collected, all of the witnesses, the miracles, the virtuous life, then it is brought to the Vatican. That is the point at which the Vatican opens the dossier and starts to read it. That period can take anywhere from several months to several years. They have to verify all of the information that is in there. And once they have done that, they bring it to the pope and the pope has to approve it. So it is generally a very lengthy process.
Of course, in the case of Pope John Paul II, it is more than likely -- it has already been started at the Vatican, in the sense that they say we will look at the information. But the information still has to be gathered, let's be clear. So we're still looking probably at least a year, I would say.
PHILLIPS: Well, and just to get a sense of what we mean by miracles. Let's explain to our viewers, for example, Mother Teresa. Is it two or three miracles, by the way, now? I remember it used to be three. Now it's -- it's two?
GALLAGHER: Two miracles. Two miracles.
PHILLIPS: OK, two miracles. So what were the two miracles deemed by those that look at the cases that Mother Teresa, indeed, conducted?
DELIA GALLAGHER: Well, again, the miracles only count, as it were, if somebody prays to the saint after their death and thereby, undergoes a scientifically inexplicable cure. In the case of Mother Theresa, I think there were cancer cures. Of course, many miracles are attested to during the life and after the death of a saint, but they have to be scientifically unexplainable. And that is where sometimes there is a bit of controversy, because many people say, well, there could be a sort of spontaneous remission and perhaps other scientifically explainable cures.
But the Vatican is very clear that they have a commission of doctors. They attempt, as much as possible, to ascertain that there was no other explanation for a cure. But the important point about miracles is that they are something which occur after the death of a person, so that the person who undergoes the miracle has to say, "I prayed specifically for this cure to this person." That's an important distinction. It didn't just sort of happen generally, but I prayed to Pope John Paul II to cure this cancer and, within a certain period of time, that occurred. Generally rather quickly.
PHILLIPS: Delia Gallagher. We'll be following it to see what happens. Thank you so much.
GALLAGHER: You're welcome.
O'BRIEN: All right. You like a good medical mystery? Our Sanjay Gupta is the one to call. See how the hit TV show "CSI" is increasing America's appetite for science.
PHILLIPS: Miracles of science?
And later, what are the odds? Fortune cookies bring a lottery fortune to dozens of people.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(WEATHER REPORT)
PHILLIPS: News around the world now.
Only hours after opening, Germany's national Holocaust memorial was desecrated by vandals. Officials say that a swastika was scratched into one of the 27,000 gray slabs that make up the memorial. The structure in Berlin was designed by U.S. architect Peter Eisenman.
Renewed unrest in the eastern Uzbek city of Andijan. Overnight clashes between demonstrators and soldiers have left at least nine protesters dead. That violence was sparked by the trials of a number of leading businessmen who had been charged with Islamic extremism.
A fourth day of violent anti-American protest in Afghanistan has left at least seven dead, 20 wounded. Reuters reports that four policemen and national army soldiers were killed in Ghazni province, just southwest of the capitol of Kabul. Protests began over a report that U.S. interrogators at Guantanamo Bay had defiled the Koran, the Muslim holy book. Well, the chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, Richard Myers, says so far there's no evidence to support those allegations.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. RICHARD MYERS, CHMN., JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: They have looked through the logs -- interrogation logs -- and they cannot confirm yet that there were ever the case of the toilet incident, except for one case, a log entry, which they still have to confirm where a detainee was reported by a guard to be ripping pages out of Koran and putting it in the toilet to stop it up as a protest. But not where the U.S. did it. Now, so it's something we're going to look at. That's still unconfirmed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: In Kenya, police have arrested the mother of this infant girl who was abandoned in a forest. The baby, dubbed Angel, was reportedly rescued by a stray dog. Doctors believe the girl was about two weeks old when she was found. The woman admitted that she was pregnant, but claimed she miscarried.
O'BRIEN: CSI, three letters that wouldn't have meant much to us just a few years ago. What a difference a hit TV show can make. Now it seems everyone is familiar with crime scene investigation. But there are big differences, of course, between what happens on the small screen and in real life. Now, we want to warn you, this story contains some images that might be disturbing to some viewers.
Here's CNN senior medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a homicide. Not simply was the victim killed, he was bound at the hands, bound at the feet, a sheet wrapped around his head, his bedroom ransacked.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a murder with no witnesses. Miami City homicide detective Freddy Pontes (ph) and Sergeant Moses Velasquez (ph) head up the investigation and immediately call on the team of CSI technicians. They spend the next 10 hours processing the crime scene, finding clues to help detectives piece together what happened the night 60-year-old Thomas Clark was killed.
This is a person that's desperate. He's not concerned with wearing rubber gloves, and you know, making sure he collects his hair samples and everything else. So we got him inside the (INAUDIBLE). So the eyewitness he wasn't counting on is going to be forensic science.
GUPTA: On television's "CSI: Miami," the case would be solved within the hour.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: We never close, ever.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUPTA: In the real world, prosecutors are starting to complain that juries expect too much.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: Some people are calling it the CSI effect, jurors getting demanding about scientific proof of guilt for refusing to produce convictions.
GUPTA: Barry Fisher is director of the Los Angeles County Sheriff's crime lab, one of the biggest and best in the country.
BARRY FISHER, L.A. CO. SHERIFF'S CRIME LAB: What's happened is that courts, jurors, even cops have this expectation that we can constantly pull rabbits out of the hat, and it's just not possible to do that.
GUPTA (on camera): It adds a lot of sex appeal to the profession as well, don't it? FISHER: Oh, we were sexy before.
GUPTA: Yes, you were.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do we have a time of death?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Between 11:00 a.m. and 1:00 p.m.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUPTA: Dr. Satish Chundru is the medical examiner who did the autopsy on Thomas Clark. He estimates that Clark was killed 18 to 33 hours before he was found.
DR. SATISH CHUNDRU, MEDICAL EXAMINER: The shows on TV, they say yes he died between 10:30 p.m. and 11:00 p.m. It's unrealistic, but it makes for a good TV show.
GUPTA: Another myth, fingerprints are not just fed into computers, trained eyes and experience are still needed to make a match.
But what about DNA? In the Clark case, technicians swab every surface, knowing the smallest trace amount could nab a killer.
Unfortunately getting a DNA profile isn't as instant as the CSI: Miami" TV show portrays.
In real life, it requires sending samples to sophisticated labs, in this case the Miami-Dade crime lab. There's a lot of waiting.
WILLIAM STUVER, MIAMI-DADE CRIME LAB: A sample they removed from a crime scene usually takes about a week from the time we first opened the specimens to where we actually have DNA profiles coming off of the machine.
GUPTA: With no witnesses, no suspects, which piece of evidence, if any, will crack this case?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's just like hunting down a ghost. Nobody knows him. Nobody's seen him before, and it's just picking out a face out of millions.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: All right. You may be wondering how the case profiled and this report turned out. I don't have an answer for you. Dr. Gupter -- Gupta -- Gupter? Dr. Gupta.
PHILLIPS: Poor Sanjay.
O'BRIEN: He will have the answer for you this weekend. You have to tune in, folks. "Anatomy of a Murder: A Crime Scene Investigation" airs Sunday, 10:00 p.m. Eastern, right here on CNN. PHILLIPS: So we're talking a lot about base closure recommendations today.
O'BRIEN: The man with the plan, Donald Rumsfeld, the CEO of the Pentagon. How's he doing as a CEO? That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld says his base closings proposal will save the country nearly $50 billion over the next 20 years. The 33 major installations recommended today for closure include some very big bases from coast to coast.
For a closer look at the money and the strategy involved, we turn to CNN's Allan Chernoff in New York. Hi, Allen.
ALLEN CHERNOFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kyra.
Well, when Donald Rumsfeld was a chief executive in corporate America he was known for having a very sharp budget ax. And certainly cost cutting is part of what's going on here.
The secretary and the entire Pentagon expecting to save about, as you said, $50 billion over the next 20 years. But if you factor that out, if you annualize it, it's not all that much. It comes out to about one half of one percent of this year's Pentagon budget.
And in fact, in the near term, this is going to cost the military because they're going to have to do environmental cleanups and they will also have to move equipment, move personnel, as some bases actually gain people. But what's also happening here is that the military is trying to think strategically.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LOREN THOMPSON, MILITARY ANALYST: He doesn't see his legacy as being a cost cutter. He sees his legacy of preparing America's military for a fundamentally new type of threat that we haven't dealt with in the past. Maybe a threat from China, but definitely a threat of terrorism and of insurgency. And those kinds of dangers are coming from Europe as in the past, they're coming from Asia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHERNOFF: So we see a shift away from the east. In fact, the big losers here are bases in New Jersey, Maine, Connecticut, New York as well. And there is a bit of a gain in the south and in the west. And analysts say certainly the west is where you want to be if your potential threat is over in Asia.
Now, we're also going to be seeing outsourcing. And you're looking at pictures here of Halliburton employees, one of the big companies, as you know, that does plenty of outsourcing. So we're seeing cutbacks in military personnel and the military is certainly moving more towards outsourcing. And that will mean all sorts of supply, logistics. So, as a result, we're seeing bases closed, for example, in Texarkana, Texas, the Red River facility there fixes equipment. That's going to be shut down. That's slated for a shutdown. Also in Maine facility, a naval ship-yard there in Portsmouth, Maine. There they repair submarines. That is also slated for a shutdown.
So it's a shift, certainly, in the way that the military does its business -- Kyra, Miles
PHILLIPS: Well, and of course, you wander about the apparent net loss of the 29,000 civilian and military jobs, Allan?
CHERNOFF: No question it will have an impact in certain communities. But let's also keep in mind, other communities are actually going to be gaining. As I said, in the west and particularly in the south, we are seeing net gains. So it's going to be different depending upon where you are around the country in terms of the economic impact here.
Also, the Pentagon is saying it will help provide some economic incentives for areas where they are going to take big hits.
PHILLIPS: All right. Allan Chernoff, thanks so much.
O'BRIEN: It's almost the top of the hour. We'll check out the headlines for you next
PHILLIPS: And don't toss out that fortune in your next fortune cookie. It might make you rich.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired May 13, 2005 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Hurricane dividend. Nine months ago today a string of major storms began battering Florida. Folks were stuck at home without electricity for days, so it stands to reason that now the state is bracing for a baby boom. Some doctors expect to deliver twice as many babies as usual next month. Just like a good snowstorm.
And a Yank invades and British rebel. British soccer fans protesting American billionaire Malcolm Glazer's imminent takeover of their beloved Manchester United. Well, Glazer currently owns the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. They had a good season not long ago. Among other things, fans fear he'll raise prices, sell the stadium and in general, bury the club in debt.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, the final final word has not yet been written on the Cessna-150 that brought Washington, D.C. to a halt just a few days ago. There you see it at the end of its odyssey. As it turns out, the two aboard -- the pilot indicated to some authorities that he had some outdated maps or charts, as pilots like to call them, which led him into a part of the airspace which has since been tightened quite a bit post-9/11.
Well, the FAA has released a track, a radar track, of this particular aircraft's path. And I know that's hard for you to read. So first of all, I'm going to highlight exactly the path, give you a sense of what we're talking about. There's the path of the airplane. Right down there is the mall and Washington. There's the Capitol, that kind of thing. Well, let me zoom in a little bit in here and I'll tell you what this proves to any pilot is that no matter what vintage charts, this pilot was in a place that was not a good place to be.
If you look closely here, you see the track of the airplane takes -- that's Silver Spring, Maryland. And then as he gets down here, that's the V.A. Hospital. And then as you get across here, you'll see he comes very close to the U.S. Naval Observatory. As most Washington-familiar people would know, that's the home of the vice president and that is also a prohibited space.
Now if you extend out that line, this is obviously subsequent to the interception by the F-16s. If you extend out the line he was flying, it would take him right across that prohibited airspace into the mall, U.S. naval observatory and down into areas that were prohibited on charts -- really any charts that I would be aware of.
Also, a couple things on this worth pointing out. It also indicates his altitude. I don't know if you can read this right here, but I'll just highlight it for you. His altitude through most of this was about -- let's see, at this time, about 2,000 feet, anywhere between 2,900 feet and 2,000 feet. That would be above mean sea level, so above the ground it would be a little less than that.
There you see him at this location as he made his way toward Frederick, Maryland. And he was at 2,300 feet at the time. By this time, he had a little company with him as he made his way up to the Frederick. So that explanation about the antiquated charts really doesn't hold water, when you look at the chart and the destination and his direction of flight. No matter what vintage charts -- I suppose if he had charts from the 1930s, maybe they told him that it would be OK to fly right over the mall. But in any case, that has been prohibited long before 9/11 -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Well, they shouted "Saint, saint!" at his funeral. And now those who want the ultimate honor for the late Pope John Paul II are closer to getting their wish. His successor put him on the fast track for sainthood today.
Let's talk more about the process. CNN Vatican analyst Delia Gallagher joining us now live from New York. She got a break from Rome. Relaxing a little bit in New York. Great to see you, Delia.
DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Hi, Kyra
PHILLIPS: All right, well, let's talk about this five-year waiting period. This is not the first time the rules have been bent. The last time was Mother Teresa, right?
GALLAGHER: Yes, that's right. I mean, Pope John Paul II set this in motion, kind of fast-track idea. Now, the five-year waiting period is imposed by the Vatican as a time to see whether the popularity of a candidate for sainthood continues after his death. You know, the Vatican doesn't make saints in the sense of choosing people. The candidate has to be brought to the Vatican by the people. So somebody in a diocese somewhere around the world can say, "I would like to bring the cause of this person to the Vatican. I think he should be made a saint."
So there is this five-year waiting period in which the Vatican says, let's see if the popularity of this person continues after his death, and then we will begin to look at the cause. So the fast track means that the Vatican would begin to look at the cause before the five-year waiting period.
PHILLIPS: All right, let's do a little canonization 101 here for our viewers. And it starts with these letters that are kept in a secret dossier, right? And it concerns, of course, not only how this individual lived his or her life, but also there's a miracle factor. So sort of tell us the process here of how it gets to the point where an individual is even considered to be canonized?
GALLAGHER: Right, well, the process, again, has to begin outside of the Vatican. The Vatican doesn't decide who's going to become a saint. Somebody outside decides that they would like to bring this cause. They go to their bishop. The bishop chooses a sort of postulator, somebody who is in charge of collecting all of the data. And that can take many, many years. You have to go through the entire life of a person and see if they lived a what they call a heroically virtuous life. And so you have to interview all of the people that knew him, et cetera.
So this takes a long time, even before you get to the miracles. So you have to establish, one, that he's lived a virtuous life, two, that he or she has done a miracle after their death. The idea of having a saint is that a saint is a person that intercedes for the living people with God. He has to have done this miracle after his death. A miracle during life -- we've heard about the miracles of Pope John Paul II while he was alive -- do not count in the case of beatification and canonization.
So once all of that material is collected, all of the witnesses, the miracles, the virtuous life, then it is brought to the Vatican. That is the point at which the Vatican opens the dossier and starts to read it. That period can take anywhere from several months to several years. They have to verify all of the information that is in there. And once they have done that, they bring it to the pope and the pope has to approve it. So it is generally a very lengthy process.
Of course, in the case of Pope John Paul II, it is more than likely -- it has already been started at the Vatican, in the sense that they say we will look at the information. But the information still has to be gathered, let's be clear. So we're still looking probably at least a year, I would say.
PHILLIPS: Well, and just to get a sense of what we mean by miracles. Let's explain to our viewers, for example, Mother Teresa. Is it two or three miracles, by the way, now? I remember it used to be three. Now it's -- it's two?
GALLAGHER: Two miracles. Two miracles.
PHILLIPS: OK, two miracles. So what were the two miracles deemed by those that look at the cases that Mother Teresa, indeed, conducted?
DELIA GALLAGHER: Well, again, the miracles only count, as it were, if somebody prays to the saint after their death and thereby, undergoes a scientifically inexplicable cure. In the case of Mother Theresa, I think there were cancer cures. Of course, many miracles are attested to during the life and after the death of a saint, but they have to be scientifically unexplainable. And that is where sometimes there is a bit of controversy, because many people say, well, there could be a sort of spontaneous remission and perhaps other scientifically explainable cures.
But the Vatican is very clear that they have a commission of doctors. They attempt, as much as possible, to ascertain that there was no other explanation for a cure. But the important point about miracles is that they are something which occur after the death of a person, so that the person who undergoes the miracle has to say, "I prayed specifically for this cure to this person." That's an important distinction. It didn't just sort of happen generally, but I prayed to Pope John Paul II to cure this cancer and, within a certain period of time, that occurred. Generally rather quickly.
PHILLIPS: Delia Gallagher. We'll be following it to see what happens. Thank you so much.
GALLAGHER: You're welcome.
O'BRIEN: All right. You like a good medical mystery? Our Sanjay Gupta is the one to call. See how the hit TV show "CSI" is increasing America's appetite for science.
PHILLIPS: Miracles of science?
And later, what are the odds? Fortune cookies bring a lottery fortune to dozens of people.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(WEATHER REPORT)
PHILLIPS: News around the world now.
Only hours after opening, Germany's national Holocaust memorial was desecrated by vandals. Officials say that a swastika was scratched into one of the 27,000 gray slabs that make up the memorial. The structure in Berlin was designed by U.S. architect Peter Eisenman.
Renewed unrest in the eastern Uzbek city of Andijan. Overnight clashes between demonstrators and soldiers have left at least nine protesters dead. That violence was sparked by the trials of a number of leading businessmen who had been charged with Islamic extremism.
A fourth day of violent anti-American protest in Afghanistan has left at least seven dead, 20 wounded. Reuters reports that four policemen and national army soldiers were killed in Ghazni province, just southwest of the capitol of Kabul. Protests began over a report that U.S. interrogators at Guantanamo Bay had defiled the Koran, the Muslim holy book. Well, the chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, Richard Myers, says so far there's no evidence to support those allegations.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. RICHARD MYERS, CHMN., JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: They have looked through the logs -- interrogation logs -- and they cannot confirm yet that there were ever the case of the toilet incident, except for one case, a log entry, which they still have to confirm where a detainee was reported by a guard to be ripping pages out of Koran and putting it in the toilet to stop it up as a protest. But not where the U.S. did it. Now, so it's something we're going to look at. That's still unconfirmed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: In Kenya, police have arrested the mother of this infant girl who was abandoned in a forest. The baby, dubbed Angel, was reportedly rescued by a stray dog. Doctors believe the girl was about two weeks old when she was found. The woman admitted that she was pregnant, but claimed she miscarried.
O'BRIEN: CSI, three letters that wouldn't have meant much to us just a few years ago. What a difference a hit TV show can make. Now it seems everyone is familiar with crime scene investigation. But there are big differences, of course, between what happens on the small screen and in real life. Now, we want to warn you, this story contains some images that might be disturbing to some viewers.
Here's CNN senior medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a homicide. Not simply was the victim killed, he was bound at the hands, bound at the feet, a sheet wrapped around his head, his bedroom ransacked.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a murder with no witnesses. Miami City homicide detective Freddy Pontes (ph) and Sergeant Moses Velasquez (ph) head up the investigation and immediately call on the team of CSI technicians. They spend the next 10 hours processing the crime scene, finding clues to help detectives piece together what happened the night 60-year-old Thomas Clark was killed.
This is a person that's desperate. He's not concerned with wearing rubber gloves, and you know, making sure he collects his hair samples and everything else. So we got him inside the (INAUDIBLE). So the eyewitness he wasn't counting on is going to be forensic science.
GUPTA: On television's "CSI: Miami," the case would be solved within the hour.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: We never close, ever.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUPTA: In the real world, prosecutors are starting to complain that juries expect too much.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: Some people are calling it the CSI effect, jurors getting demanding about scientific proof of guilt for refusing to produce convictions.
GUPTA: Barry Fisher is director of the Los Angeles County Sheriff's crime lab, one of the biggest and best in the country.
BARRY FISHER, L.A. CO. SHERIFF'S CRIME LAB: What's happened is that courts, jurors, even cops have this expectation that we can constantly pull rabbits out of the hat, and it's just not possible to do that.
GUPTA (on camera): It adds a lot of sex appeal to the profession as well, don't it? FISHER: Oh, we were sexy before.
GUPTA: Yes, you were.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do we have a time of death?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Between 11:00 a.m. and 1:00 p.m.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUPTA: Dr. Satish Chundru is the medical examiner who did the autopsy on Thomas Clark. He estimates that Clark was killed 18 to 33 hours before he was found.
DR. SATISH CHUNDRU, MEDICAL EXAMINER: The shows on TV, they say yes he died between 10:30 p.m. and 11:00 p.m. It's unrealistic, but it makes for a good TV show.
GUPTA: Another myth, fingerprints are not just fed into computers, trained eyes and experience are still needed to make a match.
But what about DNA? In the Clark case, technicians swab every surface, knowing the smallest trace amount could nab a killer.
Unfortunately getting a DNA profile isn't as instant as the CSI: Miami" TV show portrays.
In real life, it requires sending samples to sophisticated labs, in this case the Miami-Dade crime lab. There's a lot of waiting.
WILLIAM STUVER, MIAMI-DADE CRIME LAB: A sample they removed from a crime scene usually takes about a week from the time we first opened the specimens to where we actually have DNA profiles coming off of the machine.
GUPTA: With no witnesses, no suspects, which piece of evidence, if any, will crack this case?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's just like hunting down a ghost. Nobody knows him. Nobody's seen him before, and it's just picking out a face out of millions.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: All right. You may be wondering how the case profiled and this report turned out. I don't have an answer for you. Dr. Gupter -- Gupta -- Gupter? Dr. Gupta.
PHILLIPS: Poor Sanjay.
O'BRIEN: He will have the answer for you this weekend. You have to tune in, folks. "Anatomy of a Murder: A Crime Scene Investigation" airs Sunday, 10:00 p.m. Eastern, right here on CNN. PHILLIPS: So we're talking a lot about base closure recommendations today.
O'BRIEN: The man with the plan, Donald Rumsfeld, the CEO of the Pentagon. How's he doing as a CEO? That's next.
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PHILLIPS: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld says his base closings proposal will save the country nearly $50 billion over the next 20 years. The 33 major installations recommended today for closure include some very big bases from coast to coast.
For a closer look at the money and the strategy involved, we turn to CNN's Allan Chernoff in New York. Hi, Allen.
ALLEN CHERNOFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kyra.
Well, when Donald Rumsfeld was a chief executive in corporate America he was known for having a very sharp budget ax. And certainly cost cutting is part of what's going on here.
The secretary and the entire Pentagon expecting to save about, as you said, $50 billion over the next 20 years. But if you factor that out, if you annualize it, it's not all that much. It comes out to about one half of one percent of this year's Pentagon budget.
And in fact, in the near term, this is going to cost the military because they're going to have to do environmental cleanups and they will also have to move equipment, move personnel, as some bases actually gain people. But what's also happening here is that the military is trying to think strategically.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LOREN THOMPSON, MILITARY ANALYST: He doesn't see his legacy as being a cost cutter. He sees his legacy of preparing America's military for a fundamentally new type of threat that we haven't dealt with in the past. Maybe a threat from China, but definitely a threat of terrorism and of insurgency. And those kinds of dangers are coming from Europe as in the past, they're coming from Asia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHERNOFF: So we see a shift away from the east. In fact, the big losers here are bases in New Jersey, Maine, Connecticut, New York as well. And there is a bit of a gain in the south and in the west. And analysts say certainly the west is where you want to be if your potential threat is over in Asia.
Now, we're also going to be seeing outsourcing. And you're looking at pictures here of Halliburton employees, one of the big companies, as you know, that does plenty of outsourcing. So we're seeing cutbacks in military personnel and the military is certainly moving more towards outsourcing. And that will mean all sorts of supply, logistics. So, as a result, we're seeing bases closed, for example, in Texarkana, Texas, the Red River facility there fixes equipment. That's going to be shut down. That's slated for a shutdown. Also in Maine facility, a naval ship-yard there in Portsmouth, Maine. There they repair submarines. That is also slated for a shutdown.
So it's a shift, certainly, in the way that the military does its business -- Kyra, Miles
PHILLIPS: Well, and of course, you wander about the apparent net loss of the 29,000 civilian and military jobs, Allan?
CHERNOFF: No question it will have an impact in certain communities. But let's also keep in mind, other communities are actually going to be gaining. As I said, in the west and particularly in the south, we are seeing net gains. So it's going to be different depending upon where you are around the country in terms of the economic impact here.
Also, the Pentagon is saying it will help provide some economic incentives for areas where they are going to take big hits.
PHILLIPS: All right. Allan Chernoff, thanks so much.
O'BRIEN: It's almost the top of the hour. We'll check out the headlines for you next
PHILLIPS: And don't toss out that fortune in your next fortune cookie. It might make you rich.
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