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Police Brief Press on Idaho Triple Murder, Missing Kids

Aired May 19, 2005 - 14:30 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Checking some stories "Now in the News." North and South Korea end talks with no announcement on Pyongyang's nuclear program. Meantime, the State Department discloses it held its own talks with North Korea last week and urged the country to return to six-party negotiations.
A source is telling CNN former Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet has suffered a stroke. He is in the hospital in Santiago. The 89- year-old Pinochet has been accused of human rights abuses during his 17-year dictatorship, but has not been tried. No word on his condition right now.

Staggering statistics about that December earthquake and tsunami in Asia. Experts say the quake shook the entire planet by up to a half an inch and made an 800-mile gash in the floor of the Indian Ocean.

And let's go right now to Coeur D'Alene, Idaho, where we're going to listen to Captain Ben Wolfinger. The latest on the search for the Groene children. Stay with us for that.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

CAPT. BEN WOLFINGER, KOOTENAI CO., IDAHO, SHERIFF'S DEPT: I know you were anticipating the family being here with -- they called us, they're delayed, though we expect them sometime this afternoon. We don't have a definite time yet. When they get here, we'll notify you. They do want to make a plea publicly and so we're going to make sure that happens here. But as soon as they get here, we'll bring them in and set that up for you.

We visited with detectives and the detectives' supervisors this morning and what we learned about Mr. Lutner is this. He turned himself into his probation officer yesterday afternoon. The FBI has been assisting us in the missing childrens part of the case, transported him to our office. There he was investigated, or he was interviewed by investigators. That interview took about seven hours. So that's why we didn't have a lot of information for quite a while yesterday.

Mr. Lutner voluntarily took a polygraph test that confirmed his truthfulness. He had nothing to do with the death scene or the abduction of the children. And we're very comfortable with that. We've -- but, according to Mr. Lutner, we did learn there was a gathering here at the house Sunday evening, friends over, barbecue, like many of us do on a Sunday afternoon. We need anybody who was at that house on Sunday to contact the sheriff's office through the tip line and identify themselves. We're gathering every fingerprint in that house that we can find. We have to eliminate those people who were legitimately here at the house, so we need all those finger -- all those people to come in, so we can get elimination prints off those folks. They need contact the tip line, 208-446-2292 or 2293. And we will arrange that. We'll send that to the investigation so they can contact those people and make those arrangements.

Talking to the evidence technicians. They'll be here all day. They expect to be here at least half a day tomorrow, maybe a full day tomorrow. That -- they've got a lot still to do. It's going to take some time. I just met with the supervisor for the investigations for the state police, for the region one, the North Idaho region. He's told me that in a cooperative agreement with the FBI and in order to maintain consistency, all evidence is going to go to the FBI lab in Quantico. This may delay our return on some evidence by a day or so, but they by far have the best lab in the nation and they also have the quickest overall turnaround.

We're getting an entire forensic team from the FBI dedicated to this project, this case. So that's a great help for us. In the long run, it will be a shorter turnaround in evidence processing. All evidence, though, will be going to the FBI.

Yesterday we drained a sewage pond, or a septic pond, behind the residence. You probably saw the truck come in. We found nothing. Nothing. What we are doing today is dive team. People are here. They're going to be searching the creek, the streams through here, this little marshy, boggy area.

I know several of you want film of that. And as you noticed, as you came off the interstate, there's a pond alongside Frontage (ph) Road. When they go to search that, you are all welcome to film that. OK, there's plenty of room for everybody. We aren't fighting the brush, we're not doing all that. You're more than welcome to do that. They will give me as much notice as possible before they go to that pond so you -- to facilitate that for everybody.

Autopsies. They're wrapping up the last autopsy today. They did the two adults yesterday. They're doing the Slades this morning. They do have a cause and a implement of death, however, the investigators are adamant they cannot release that information. And I have to respect that, that from the investigators.

Last, but not least, and if you guys are live, you might want to take this off. It's just a housekeeping measure. You know, we've had some complaints. I just need you people not to gather at the bus when it's not meal times. We just have too many people and too much confusion. I just ask that we keep everybody away from the bus, except at mealtimes. All right?

Questions? John?

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) WOLFINGER: Nothing that was evident to the investigators. That's why they need to bring those other people in, do the elimination prints and maybe some of those folks saw something. So it's just a good tool for us, just another lead.

QUESTION: Is any evidence that you got that hadn't been cleaned up? (INAUDIBLE) hasn't been cleaned up?

WOLFINGER: I have no idea. I have no idea on that one.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

WOLFINGER: Yes. He was afraid of a probation violation for not turning himself in when his probation officer asked him for -- to come in initially.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

WOLFINGER: No. He didn't. He stayed in the local area.

QUESTION: Have you identified any other people at the gathering Sunday night who might be people of interest?

WOLFINGER: We haven't at this time. We have not at this time, and that's why it's important that we have those people contact the sheriff's office, so we can get their names, get those elimination prints.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

WOLFINGER: We do not have anyone else of interest at this time. No other persons of interest. And Lutner is no longer a person of interest. And that's been a question that many of you have asked this morning, is he still a person of interest? No, he is not.

QUESTION: Were the children at the gathering on Sunday?

WOLFINGER: Everybody was at the home on Sunday.

QUESTION: Do you have any confirmation of how many people were there?

WOLFINGER: I don't. I don't have a number. I don't think we got a number out of it.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

WOLFINGER: Nothing. We received more than 200 tips into the tip line. Nothing's panned out yet. I got a call from dispatch a little while ago. They had a tip, in Key West, Florida. So, I mean, we have really gone to it farthest corner of the nation, and it just didn't pan out. It just wasn't the right kids.

QUESTION: I understand that you also received tips from all kinds of people, all wake walks of life, even psychics? WOLFINGER: We have received tips from -- you're right -- all kinds of people, all walks of life. Psychics. We've had people call during the night that dreamed about it and woke up. You know, and that's why we have an FBI analyst helping us sort out those tips and prioritizing them and setting us in the right direction to investigate those.

QUESTION: So far no firm leads?

WOLFINGER: Nothing firm yet.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

WOLFINGER: We don't know yet. Possibly tomorrow, possibly Monday. That's going to depend on the FBI, when they want it shipped into them.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE). How long do you think?

WOLFINGER: Well, it's going to take longer to ship it than it is to ship it to Boise. You know, it's an hour flight to Boise. If we were shipping it to Boise, it's a better part of the day to get it to Quantico. But like I said, they have the best lab in the nation and by far, the quickest turnaround overall.

QUESTION: So what kind of turnaround are you talking about?

WOLFINGER: Well, minimum, 72 hours, anyway, on DNA. We know that. We talked about that yesterday. That's not going to change, doesn't matter what lab you're working.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) reported as saying they were killed execution style, possibly by a gang. Do you have any comment on that?

WOLFINGER: No, I can't confirm anything like that. You saw the gang people here. They're gone. They couldn't put any ties to anything that they've seen in their line of work.

QUESTION: Would you look at multiple killers since all three (INAUDIBLE) were bound?

WOLFINGER: We'll look at anything. We're not ruling anything out at this time. There's no door closed on anything, except Mr. Lutner, at this point.

QUESTION: Captain, one of the big questions remains that why wouldn't the killer or killers come in and kill all five people? Why kill three and leave the two children alive? And so I expect that you have more hope, not less, then, that the children at this point might still be found alive?

WOLFINGER: That's a great point. And you know, and that's -- I don't know if you heard that, but she said, you know, why would the killer come in and kill three people and take two children? And does that give us hope for the children? You bet it does. And that's all we are have to go on at this point, is hope. Without any solid leads, you know, we're going on that hope and those prayers. So...

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) there were multiple killers because it takes a lot to subdue or control a family?

WOLFINGER: Well, and like you said, that was Sheriff Watson's guess and I'm sure that -- you know, he's been in the scene, so he may have more information than I do. But that's strictly a guess at this point, Stephen (ph). And so, you know, we -- once the evidence is processed and we can actually say multiple persons, we'll say that. OK? But we can't confirm that now.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

WOLFINGER: I -- I don't have anything to say on that, at this point.

QUESTION: Profiles -- leading up to (INAUDIBLE)...

WOLFINGER: I don't have anything to say on that, at this point. I don't have anything to say on that. I don't have any information on that.

QUESTION: Can you tell us more specifically why you cannot release the cause of death?

WOLFINGER: Because we have to be able to hold that close to the vest so that when those people call in from those -- sometimes the oddballs call in and want to confess to crimes -- we need to be able to specifically eliminate those folks by us knowing the details, and not the general public. And that's so important to us, to be able to eliminate those people who want to confess for their 15 minutes of fame, that aren't really involved.

QUESTION: How did Mr. Lutner characterize this gathering on Sunday?

WOLFINGER: Just a gathering of friends. It was a common thing. It was a Sunday afternoon gathering, much like we all have on an afternoon, little barbecue-type get-together.

(CROSSTALK)

WOLFINGER: We don't know. We said that.

QUESTION: Nobody else from that gathering has called, or...

WOLFINGER: Nobody yet. No.

QUESTION: Don't you think that's strange, after four days, that no one from the party...

WOLFINGER: Well, I'm not going to speculate on how they're thinking. That would be pretty blatant on my part and assumptive on my part. But that's why we're asking to you put that out, that we want these people to call us. We need to talk to these folks and we need to get their elimination prints so we can figure out who was here legitimately, and who may be involved in this crime.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

WOLFINGER: He did not.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

WOLFINGER: We don't know at this point, Susan.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

WOLFINGER: I think we said yesterday there was no obvious sign of a forced entry, so...

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

WOLFINGER: Well, we've always said that we know that they were seen alive Sunday evening, and Mr. Lutner confirms that. But that's all we've got on it, Sean.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

WOLFINGER: He is. Some of our ground searchers are tired. Remember, they're volunteers. They've got real jobs they have to attend as well, and so he's bringing some more searchers in. We are -- the sheriff, he was concerned that maybe we didn't -- we may have missed one little clue. And so he's bringing in more ground searchers to re-do the ground search. We don't want to miss anything. So, we're going to bring some searchers in, search and rescue, from the neighboring counties. All the Idaho sheriffs have a cooperative agreement to do just exactly that.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)...turned up any kind of leads?

WOLFINGER: The ground searches have not turned up anything, at this point. Margaret?

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

WOLFINGER: I'm sorry. I can't hear you, Margaret.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

WOLFINGER: What about him? He is -- he's been visiting with detectives. He's been -- they're keeping him abreast. I think they met with him this morning again. So, yes, he knows what's going on and they're talking with him again. He's a great resource for them as well, knowing who might have been friends of the family.

QUESTION: And how were you able to -- quickly -- to be able to eliminate him as a suspect?

WOLFINGER: I don't have that information. Detectives met with him late Monday, actually early-hours Tuesday morning, and when we came back in Tuesday morning, they were able to tell us, he has been eliminated. So, I don't have the -- I'm not privy to their methods at that point.

QUESTION: Would you say Mr. Lutner was helpful in knowing any of the other of the...

WOLFINGER: He was not. He didn't identify anybody else at the party.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

WOLFINGER: You know, I don't know what the FBI is doing at this point. I know they're involved in the investigation. They're assisting our investigators, but I'm not privy to that information at this point.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)...identify anybody else...(INAUDIBLE)...drugs, or...

WOLFINGER: I don't have that information. I really don't know.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)...nature of the search...(INAUDIBLE)...bodies, or...

WOLFINGER: Well, we're looking for anything right now, Susan, whether it be the children, children's bodies -- heaven forbid -- or evidence, you know, a scrap of clothing, or something like that. We'll look for anything.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

WOLFINGER: I'm sorry, I...

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

WOLFINGER: Oh, absolutely. You know, our key here -- our ultimate goal is to find the children, and we're going to keep processing the scene, because maybe we get that one piece of evidence that leads us to those children. That's our ultimate goal. We can process crime scenes any day. Our goal is to get those children back here to their remaining family.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

WOLFINGER: Well, they're going to search this whole basin here, and this crick and streams and marsh and ponds, and -- it's quite a quagmire back here. They're going to search all of that. Some of it's fairly shin-deep. Some of it's quite deeper. That's why the dive team's doing it. I mean, ground crews can certainly search the shallow stuff, but they're going to get the rest of it and then they'll search the pond down as you get closer to the freeway, just because that's a pretty confined area. And they have their own way. They do grid searches in a circular grid pattern and they're very good at it. They've done a very good -- unfortunately, quite often.

O'BRIEN: We've been listening to Kootenai County sheriff's Captain Ben Wolfinger, briefing reporters there in Coeur D'Alene, Idaho. Just to bring you up to date, Robert Lutner, who has been described by authorities as a person of interest -- which isn't really a legal term, it's a difficult term for us to get a handle on, but, obviously somebody they wanted to talk to. They have spoken with him -- for seven hours, we were told, he was interviewed, and including a polygraph test, which he passed with flying colors. He has been eliminated, the only door shut on this case is, in fact, Robert Roy Lutner, who is no longer being considered a person of interest and, as it turns out, was not more forthcoming because he was on probation. He had violated probation for a fraud charge some time ago.

Just to bring you up-to-date on what else is going on in the search for these two children, 8-year-old Shasta Green and 9-year-old Dylan Green. They -- I'm sorry, Groene, I apologize. Groene, 8-year- old Shasta Groene and 9-year-old Dylan Groene, the amber alert continues. They are missing, and as one of the reporters pointed out, because of the fact that they were not found at the scene of this triple homicide at the home, perhaps there is some reason for hope they are still alive. It appears, though, the investigation is pretty much back at square one. They will continue to search in ponds, marshes, sewage areas, sewage septic ponds, whatever the case may be, in and around that area. We'll keep you posted on this case as we continue the search for the Groene children. Back with more in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: A "King"-sized witness will not be called to testify in the Michael Jackson trial, after all. CNN's own Larry King, in Santa Maria, California, this morning. The jury was not present as King recounted a conversation with a lawyer for the family of Jackson's accuser. Afterwards, Judge Rodney Melville ruled that King's testimony would not be needed.

Let's get more on the legal ins and outs of today's developments in the Michael Jackson trial. And for that, we go to CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.

Good to see you from New York.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Hi, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Well, it was peculiar enough to hear that Larry King was called to testify. And then he went through a litany of questions, answered them, and then the just said bye-bye. What happened?

TOOBIN: Well, the defense wanted him to testify that the accuser's own lawyer thought that the accuser's mother was a wacko. And in this case only for money. And there was a meal between Larry King and Larry Feldman, the lawyer. And Larry King apparently testified that he heard Larry Feldman say the accuser's mother was a wacko. Earlier, Larry Feldman testified in front of the jury that he said no such thing to Larry King.

WHITFIELD: Interesting. So, Larry King has interviewed both Larry Feldman and he's also interviewed good friend, defense witness, Macaulay Culkin. So you have to wonder, if Larry King was asked to appear to describe some of the accounts of interviews as well and how unusual is that?

TOOBIN: Well, it's certainly unusual to have any media personality testify at a trial, and he wasn't testifying about any sort of -- anything that was done on his show on "LARRY KING LIVE." All he was supposed to be doing, testifying about this conversation.

The judge ruled that the whole thing was not -- not relevant. That the conversation he was recounting with Larry Feldman was hearsay. It was peripheral, from the whole case. So that's really why the thing was ruled out of order.

WHITFIELD: So this Q and A all taking place without the jurors even present. But might the jurors were privy or somehow know that this kind of conversation took place before the judge and then draw their own conclusions?

TOOBIN: Well, yes. In fact, they do know something about it, because Larry Feldman was cross-examined about it. He denied that the conversation took place the way Larry King said it was. So, they're aware that this controversy exists.

WHITFIELD: So, how might that impact their point of view? Should that be a concern at all for the defense -- I mean, the prosecution?

TOOBIN: It might be a concern. But you know, this is really pretty peripheral from the main issues in this case. Remember, the accuser, it doesn't even relate to the accuser, it related to the accuser's mother, that only really relates to the conspiracy count, not the child molestation count. I can understand the judge's thinking, not to distract this jury with sort of a mini trial of what Larry Feldman said, when the real issue here involves the accuser and the accuser's mother.

WHITFIELD: And now, overall let's look at this. Many witnesses, including former employees, and other young men, testifying that Michael Jackson never touched them inappropriately, never did anything wrong, albeit they may have slept in his bed. So how is the prosecution's case coming along then? Are they having a difficult time trying prove that Michael Jackson indeed molested children, particularly this one accuser?

TOOBIN: I think they are having a hard time. These are persuasive defense witnesses. It's unusual in a criminal trial for the defense to have so many witnesses offering independent proof of their client's innocence.

You know, the prosecution's best hope here I think is twofold. One is, they still have a witness. The accuser who said, look, Michael Jackson did this to me. That may be all the jury needs.

Also, there's a kind of, where there's smoke there's fire issue. All of these accusations, all of this bizarre behavior, sleeping in the same bed. The jury may say, come on, all of this cannot be a coincidence. That's the prosecution's best hope.

WHITFIELD: And bottom line, they have yet to hear from the accuser himself. And that really may determine where this goes.

TOOBIN: Well, no, they have heard from the accuser. He has testified in the trial. They haven't heard from Michael Jackson. And I expect that they won't.

WHITFIELD: All right. Jeffrey Toobin, thanks so much.

O'BRIEN: New study says big brother is not only watching, he's firing.

WHITFIELD; Susan Lisovicz has details.

O'BRIEN: Careful what you do at work, folks!

WHITFIELD: All right. We've going to try to get with Susan Lisovicz in a moment.

O'BRIEN: We'll just do a big brother version of the big board! Looking from where we are right here, we see the Dow Jones Industrial down a little less than, well, down 50 cents. Oh, a buck 4.

WHITFIELD: All right.

Well, adults love their cell phones and their Blackberries. They're kind of like toys, aren't they?

O'BRIEN: You might say that. Just ask Congressman -- cute as he can be. How many times have you given the phone to your kid and said, shh. Just play with the phone. Just play with the phone.

Kids do the darnedest things at this congressional hearings, you know. And there's a breakthrough credit card technology to tell you about. You may or may not like this idea. You just kind of get in the proximity of the cash register and there goes your money. Well, we'll give you the pros and cons in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Checking some stories now in the news. Meeting face to face, the Bush administration confirms it held direct talks last Friday with North Koreans. The U.S. envoy urged North Korea to restart the stalled six-party talks on its nuclear ambitions.

Former Chilean dictator, General Augusto Pinochet now in a military hospital in Santiago. A source close to Pinochet telling CNN the general suffered a stroke. Pinochet, who battles advanced diabetes is now 89.

The search expands for two children who disappeared without a trace the day their mother and older brother were found murdered in their home. The latest live from Idaho just a few moments from now. We'll hear about that. And the force of nature, new data from December devastating tsunami show it was more powerful than first thought. The magnitude of the earthquake that caused it has been raised to at least 9.1 and the energy released vibrated the entire planet.

WHITFIELD: A desperate search is becoming even more so for two missing Idaho children. Police just announced a man once described as a person of interest has been cleared. CNN's Alina Cho is on the scene in Coeur D'Alene -- Alina.

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Fredricka, the local sheriff's office and the captain who is becoming quickly a very well-known figure in this case, Ben Wolfinger, held a news conference just moments ago, and there was lots of good information coming out of that news conference.

First and foremost, we should tell you that the man who they had believed was a quote, person of interest is no longer so. 33-year-old Robert Roy Lutner, authorities questioned him for seven hours. They had believed that he was a person of interest, because they said that they thought that he was the last person, or one of the last people to see the victims alive.

What he did was he gave them details about Sunday night. Apparently there was a gathering at the home. And he also took a test that he passed.

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Aired May 19, 2005 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Checking some stories "Now in the News." North and South Korea end talks with no announcement on Pyongyang's nuclear program. Meantime, the State Department discloses it held its own talks with North Korea last week and urged the country to return to six-party negotiations.
A source is telling CNN former Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet has suffered a stroke. He is in the hospital in Santiago. The 89- year-old Pinochet has been accused of human rights abuses during his 17-year dictatorship, but has not been tried. No word on his condition right now.

Staggering statistics about that December earthquake and tsunami in Asia. Experts say the quake shook the entire planet by up to a half an inch and made an 800-mile gash in the floor of the Indian Ocean.

And let's go right now to Coeur D'Alene, Idaho, where we're going to listen to Captain Ben Wolfinger. The latest on the search for the Groene children. Stay with us for that.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

CAPT. BEN WOLFINGER, KOOTENAI CO., IDAHO, SHERIFF'S DEPT: I know you were anticipating the family being here with -- they called us, they're delayed, though we expect them sometime this afternoon. We don't have a definite time yet. When they get here, we'll notify you. They do want to make a plea publicly and so we're going to make sure that happens here. But as soon as they get here, we'll bring them in and set that up for you.

We visited with detectives and the detectives' supervisors this morning and what we learned about Mr. Lutner is this. He turned himself into his probation officer yesterday afternoon. The FBI has been assisting us in the missing childrens part of the case, transported him to our office. There he was investigated, or he was interviewed by investigators. That interview took about seven hours. So that's why we didn't have a lot of information for quite a while yesterday.

Mr. Lutner voluntarily took a polygraph test that confirmed his truthfulness. He had nothing to do with the death scene or the abduction of the children. And we're very comfortable with that. We've -- but, according to Mr. Lutner, we did learn there was a gathering here at the house Sunday evening, friends over, barbecue, like many of us do on a Sunday afternoon. We need anybody who was at that house on Sunday to contact the sheriff's office through the tip line and identify themselves. We're gathering every fingerprint in that house that we can find. We have to eliminate those people who were legitimately here at the house, so we need all those finger -- all those people to come in, so we can get elimination prints off those folks. They need contact the tip line, 208-446-2292 or 2293. And we will arrange that. We'll send that to the investigation so they can contact those people and make those arrangements.

Talking to the evidence technicians. They'll be here all day. They expect to be here at least half a day tomorrow, maybe a full day tomorrow. That -- they've got a lot still to do. It's going to take some time. I just met with the supervisor for the investigations for the state police, for the region one, the North Idaho region. He's told me that in a cooperative agreement with the FBI and in order to maintain consistency, all evidence is going to go to the FBI lab in Quantico. This may delay our return on some evidence by a day or so, but they by far have the best lab in the nation and they also have the quickest overall turnaround.

We're getting an entire forensic team from the FBI dedicated to this project, this case. So that's a great help for us. In the long run, it will be a shorter turnaround in evidence processing. All evidence, though, will be going to the FBI.

Yesterday we drained a sewage pond, or a septic pond, behind the residence. You probably saw the truck come in. We found nothing. Nothing. What we are doing today is dive team. People are here. They're going to be searching the creek, the streams through here, this little marshy, boggy area.

I know several of you want film of that. And as you noticed, as you came off the interstate, there's a pond alongside Frontage (ph) Road. When they go to search that, you are all welcome to film that. OK, there's plenty of room for everybody. We aren't fighting the brush, we're not doing all that. You're more than welcome to do that. They will give me as much notice as possible before they go to that pond so you -- to facilitate that for everybody.

Autopsies. They're wrapping up the last autopsy today. They did the two adults yesterday. They're doing the Slades this morning. They do have a cause and a implement of death, however, the investigators are adamant they cannot release that information. And I have to respect that, that from the investigators.

Last, but not least, and if you guys are live, you might want to take this off. It's just a housekeeping measure. You know, we've had some complaints. I just need you people not to gather at the bus when it's not meal times. We just have too many people and too much confusion. I just ask that we keep everybody away from the bus, except at mealtimes. All right?

Questions? John?

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) WOLFINGER: Nothing that was evident to the investigators. That's why they need to bring those other people in, do the elimination prints and maybe some of those folks saw something. So it's just a good tool for us, just another lead.

QUESTION: Is any evidence that you got that hadn't been cleaned up? (INAUDIBLE) hasn't been cleaned up?

WOLFINGER: I have no idea. I have no idea on that one.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

WOLFINGER: Yes. He was afraid of a probation violation for not turning himself in when his probation officer asked him for -- to come in initially.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

WOLFINGER: No. He didn't. He stayed in the local area.

QUESTION: Have you identified any other people at the gathering Sunday night who might be people of interest?

WOLFINGER: We haven't at this time. We have not at this time, and that's why it's important that we have those people contact the sheriff's office, so we can get their names, get those elimination prints.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

WOLFINGER: We do not have anyone else of interest at this time. No other persons of interest. And Lutner is no longer a person of interest. And that's been a question that many of you have asked this morning, is he still a person of interest? No, he is not.

QUESTION: Were the children at the gathering on Sunday?

WOLFINGER: Everybody was at the home on Sunday.

QUESTION: Do you have any confirmation of how many people were there?

WOLFINGER: I don't. I don't have a number. I don't think we got a number out of it.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

WOLFINGER: Nothing. We received more than 200 tips into the tip line. Nothing's panned out yet. I got a call from dispatch a little while ago. They had a tip, in Key West, Florida. So, I mean, we have really gone to it farthest corner of the nation, and it just didn't pan out. It just wasn't the right kids.

QUESTION: I understand that you also received tips from all kinds of people, all wake walks of life, even psychics? WOLFINGER: We have received tips from -- you're right -- all kinds of people, all walks of life. Psychics. We've had people call during the night that dreamed about it and woke up. You know, and that's why we have an FBI analyst helping us sort out those tips and prioritizing them and setting us in the right direction to investigate those.

QUESTION: So far no firm leads?

WOLFINGER: Nothing firm yet.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

WOLFINGER: We don't know yet. Possibly tomorrow, possibly Monday. That's going to depend on the FBI, when they want it shipped into them.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE). How long do you think?

WOLFINGER: Well, it's going to take longer to ship it than it is to ship it to Boise. You know, it's an hour flight to Boise. If we were shipping it to Boise, it's a better part of the day to get it to Quantico. But like I said, they have the best lab in the nation and by far, the quickest turnaround overall.

QUESTION: So what kind of turnaround are you talking about?

WOLFINGER: Well, minimum, 72 hours, anyway, on DNA. We know that. We talked about that yesterday. That's not going to change, doesn't matter what lab you're working.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) reported as saying they were killed execution style, possibly by a gang. Do you have any comment on that?

WOLFINGER: No, I can't confirm anything like that. You saw the gang people here. They're gone. They couldn't put any ties to anything that they've seen in their line of work.

QUESTION: Would you look at multiple killers since all three (INAUDIBLE) were bound?

WOLFINGER: We'll look at anything. We're not ruling anything out at this time. There's no door closed on anything, except Mr. Lutner, at this point.

QUESTION: Captain, one of the big questions remains that why wouldn't the killer or killers come in and kill all five people? Why kill three and leave the two children alive? And so I expect that you have more hope, not less, then, that the children at this point might still be found alive?

WOLFINGER: That's a great point. And you know, and that's -- I don't know if you heard that, but she said, you know, why would the killer come in and kill three people and take two children? And does that give us hope for the children? You bet it does. And that's all we are have to go on at this point, is hope. Without any solid leads, you know, we're going on that hope and those prayers. So...

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) there were multiple killers because it takes a lot to subdue or control a family?

WOLFINGER: Well, and like you said, that was Sheriff Watson's guess and I'm sure that -- you know, he's been in the scene, so he may have more information than I do. But that's strictly a guess at this point, Stephen (ph). And so, you know, we -- once the evidence is processed and we can actually say multiple persons, we'll say that. OK? But we can't confirm that now.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

WOLFINGER: I -- I don't have anything to say on that, at this point.

QUESTION: Profiles -- leading up to (INAUDIBLE)...

WOLFINGER: I don't have anything to say on that, at this point. I don't have anything to say on that. I don't have any information on that.

QUESTION: Can you tell us more specifically why you cannot release the cause of death?

WOLFINGER: Because we have to be able to hold that close to the vest so that when those people call in from those -- sometimes the oddballs call in and want to confess to crimes -- we need to be able to specifically eliminate those folks by us knowing the details, and not the general public. And that's so important to us, to be able to eliminate those people who want to confess for their 15 minutes of fame, that aren't really involved.

QUESTION: How did Mr. Lutner characterize this gathering on Sunday?

WOLFINGER: Just a gathering of friends. It was a common thing. It was a Sunday afternoon gathering, much like we all have on an afternoon, little barbecue-type get-together.

(CROSSTALK)

WOLFINGER: We don't know. We said that.

QUESTION: Nobody else from that gathering has called, or...

WOLFINGER: Nobody yet. No.

QUESTION: Don't you think that's strange, after four days, that no one from the party...

WOLFINGER: Well, I'm not going to speculate on how they're thinking. That would be pretty blatant on my part and assumptive on my part. But that's why we're asking to you put that out, that we want these people to call us. We need to talk to these folks and we need to get their elimination prints so we can figure out who was here legitimately, and who may be involved in this crime.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

WOLFINGER: He did not.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

WOLFINGER: We don't know at this point, Susan.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

WOLFINGER: I think we said yesterday there was no obvious sign of a forced entry, so...

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

WOLFINGER: Well, we've always said that we know that they were seen alive Sunday evening, and Mr. Lutner confirms that. But that's all we've got on it, Sean.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

WOLFINGER: He is. Some of our ground searchers are tired. Remember, they're volunteers. They've got real jobs they have to attend as well, and so he's bringing some more searchers in. We are -- the sheriff, he was concerned that maybe we didn't -- we may have missed one little clue. And so he's bringing in more ground searchers to re-do the ground search. We don't want to miss anything. So, we're going to bring some searchers in, search and rescue, from the neighboring counties. All the Idaho sheriffs have a cooperative agreement to do just exactly that.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)...turned up any kind of leads?

WOLFINGER: The ground searches have not turned up anything, at this point. Margaret?

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

WOLFINGER: I'm sorry. I can't hear you, Margaret.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

WOLFINGER: What about him? He is -- he's been visiting with detectives. He's been -- they're keeping him abreast. I think they met with him this morning again. So, yes, he knows what's going on and they're talking with him again. He's a great resource for them as well, knowing who might have been friends of the family.

QUESTION: And how were you able to -- quickly -- to be able to eliminate him as a suspect?

WOLFINGER: I don't have that information. Detectives met with him late Monday, actually early-hours Tuesday morning, and when we came back in Tuesday morning, they were able to tell us, he has been eliminated. So, I don't have the -- I'm not privy to their methods at that point.

QUESTION: Would you say Mr. Lutner was helpful in knowing any of the other of the...

WOLFINGER: He was not. He didn't identify anybody else at the party.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

WOLFINGER: You know, I don't know what the FBI is doing at this point. I know they're involved in the investigation. They're assisting our investigators, but I'm not privy to that information at this point.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)...identify anybody else...(INAUDIBLE)...drugs, or...

WOLFINGER: I don't have that information. I really don't know.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)...nature of the search...(INAUDIBLE)...bodies, or...

WOLFINGER: Well, we're looking for anything right now, Susan, whether it be the children, children's bodies -- heaven forbid -- or evidence, you know, a scrap of clothing, or something like that. We'll look for anything.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

WOLFINGER: I'm sorry, I...

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

WOLFINGER: Oh, absolutely. You know, our key here -- our ultimate goal is to find the children, and we're going to keep processing the scene, because maybe we get that one piece of evidence that leads us to those children. That's our ultimate goal. We can process crime scenes any day. Our goal is to get those children back here to their remaining family.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

WOLFINGER: Well, they're going to search this whole basin here, and this crick and streams and marsh and ponds, and -- it's quite a quagmire back here. They're going to search all of that. Some of it's fairly shin-deep. Some of it's quite deeper. That's why the dive team's doing it. I mean, ground crews can certainly search the shallow stuff, but they're going to get the rest of it and then they'll search the pond down as you get closer to the freeway, just because that's a pretty confined area. And they have their own way. They do grid searches in a circular grid pattern and they're very good at it. They've done a very good -- unfortunately, quite often.

O'BRIEN: We've been listening to Kootenai County sheriff's Captain Ben Wolfinger, briefing reporters there in Coeur D'Alene, Idaho. Just to bring you up to date, Robert Lutner, who has been described by authorities as a person of interest -- which isn't really a legal term, it's a difficult term for us to get a handle on, but, obviously somebody they wanted to talk to. They have spoken with him -- for seven hours, we were told, he was interviewed, and including a polygraph test, which he passed with flying colors. He has been eliminated, the only door shut on this case is, in fact, Robert Roy Lutner, who is no longer being considered a person of interest and, as it turns out, was not more forthcoming because he was on probation. He had violated probation for a fraud charge some time ago.

Just to bring you up-to-date on what else is going on in the search for these two children, 8-year-old Shasta Green and 9-year-old Dylan Green. They -- I'm sorry, Groene, I apologize. Groene, 8-year- old Shasta Groene and 9-year-old Dylan Groene, the amber alert continues. They are missing, and as one of the reporters pointed out, because of the fact that they were not found at the scene of this triple homicide at the home, perhaps there is some reason for hope they are still alive. It appears, though, the investigation is pretty much back at square one. They will continue to search in ponds, marshes, sewage areas, sewage septic ponds, whatever the case may be, in and around that area. We'll keep you posted on this case as we continue the search for the Groene children. Back with more in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: A "King"-sized witness will not be called to testify in the Michael Jackson trial, after all. CNN's own Larry King, in Santa Maria, California, this morning. The jury was not present as King recounted a conversation with a lawyer for the family of Jackson's accuser. Afterwards, Judge Rodney Melville ruled that King's testimony would not be needed.

Let's get more on the legal ins and outs of today's developments in the Michael Jackson trial. And for that, we go to CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.

Good to see you from New York.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Hi, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Well, it was peculiar enough to hear that Larry King was called to testify. And then he went through a litany of questions, answered them, and then the just said bye-bye. What happened?

TOOBIN: Well, the defense wanted him to testify that the accuser's own lawyer thought that the accuser's mother was a wacko. And in this case only for money. And there was a meal between Larry King and Larry Feldman, the lawyer. And Larry King apparently testified that he heard Larry Feldman say the accuser's mother was a wacko. Earlier, Larry Feldman testified in front of the jury that he said no such thing to Larry King.

WHITFIELD: Interesting. So, Larry King has interviewed both Larry Feldman and he's also interviewed good friend, defense witness, Macaulay Culkin. So you have to wonder, if Larry King was asked to appear to describe some of the accounts of interviews as well and how unusual is that?

TOOBIN: Well, it's certainly unusual to have any media personality testify at a trial, and he wasn't testifying about any sort of -- anything that was done on his show on "LARRY KING LIVE." All he was supposed to be doing, testifying about this conversation.

The judge ruled that the whole thing was not -- not relevant. That the conversation he was recounting with Larry Feldman was hearsay. It was peripheral, from the whole case. So that's really why the thing was ruled out of order.

WHITFIELD: So this Q and A all taking place without the jurors even present. But might the jurors were privy or somehow know that this kind of conversation took place before the judge and then draw their own conclusions?

TOOBIN: Well, yes. In fact, they do know something about it, because Larry Feldman was cross-examined about it. He denied that the conversation took place the way Larry King said it was. So, they're aware that this controversy exists.

WHITFIELD: So, how might that impact their point of view? Should that be a concern at all for the defense -- I mean, the prosecution?

TOOBIN: It might be a concern. But you know, this is really pretty peripheral from the main issues in this case. Remember, the accuser, it doesn't even relate to the accuser, it related to the accuser's mother, that only really relates to the conspiracy count, not the child molestation count. I can understand the judge's thinking, not to distract this jury with sort of a mini trial of what Larry Feldman said, when the real issue here involves the accuser and the accuser's mother.

WHITFIELD: And now, overall let's look at this. Many witnesses, including former employees, and other young men, testifying that Michael Jackson never touched them inappropriately, never did anything wrong, albeit they may have slept in his bed. So how is the prosecution's case coming along then? Are they having a difficult time trying prove that Michael Jackson indeed molested children, particularly this one accuser?

TOOBIN: I think they are having a hard time. These are persuasive defense witnesses. It's unusual in a criminal trial for the defense to have so many witnesses offering independent proof of their client's innocence.

You know, the prosecution's best hope here I think is twofold. One is, they still have a witness. The accuser who said, look, Michael Jackson did this to me. That may be all the jury needs.

Also, there's a kind of, where there's smoke there's fire issue. All of these accusations, all of this bizarre behavior, sleeping in the same bed. The jury may say, come on, all of this cannot be a coincidence. That's the prosecution's best hope.

WHITFIELD: And bottom line, they have yet to hear from the accuser himself. And that really may determine where this goes.

TOOBIN: Well, no, they have heard from the accuser. He has testified in the trial. They haven't heard from Michael Jackson. And I expect that they won't.

WHITFIELD: All right. Jeffrey Toobin, thanks so much.

O'BRIEN: New study says big brother is not only watching, he's firing.

WHITFIELD; Susan Lisovicz has details.

O'BRIEN: Careful what you do at work, folks!

WHITFIELD: All right. We've going to try to get with Susan Lisovicz in a moment.

O'BRIEN: We'll just do a big brother version of the big board! Looking from where we are right here, we see the Dow Jones Industrial down a little less than, well, down 50 cents. Oh, a buck 4.

WHITFIELD: All right.

Well, adults love their cell phones and their Blackberries. They're kind of like toys, aren't they?

O'BRIEN: You might say that. Just ask Congressman -- cute as he can be. How many times have you given the phone to your kid and said, shh. Just play with the phone. Just play with the phone.

Kids do the darnedest things at this congressional hearings, you know. And there's a breakthrough credit card technology to tell you about. You may or may not like this idea. You just kind of get in the proximity of the cash register and there goes your money. Well, we'll give you the pros and cons in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Checking some stories now in the news. Meeting face to face, the Bush administration confirms it held direct talks last Friday with North Koreans. The U.S. envoy urged North Korea to restart the stalled six-party talks on its nuclear ambitions.

Former Chilean dictator, General Augusto Pinochet now in a military hospital in Santiago. A source close to Pinochet telling CNN the general suffered a stroke. Pinochet, who battles advanced diabetes is now 89.

The search expands for two children who disappeared without a trace the day their mother and older brother were found murdered in their home. The latest live from Idaho just a few moments from now. We'll hear about that. And the force of nature, new data from December devastating tsunami show it was more powerful than first thought. The magnitude of the earthquake that caused it has been raised to at least 9.1 and the energy released vibrated the entire planet.

WHITFIELD: A desperate search is becoming even more so for two missing Idaho children. Police just announced a man once described as a person of interest has been cleared. CNN's Alina Cho is on the scene in Coeur D'Alene -- Alina.

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Fredricka, the local sheriff's office and the captain who is becoming quickly a very well-known figure in this case, Ben Wolfinger, held a news conference just moments ago, and there was lots of good information coming out of that news conference.

First and foremost, we should tell you that the man who they had believed was a quote, person of interest is no longer so. 33-year-old Robert Roy Lutner, authorities questioned him for seven hours. They had believed that he was a person of interest, because they said that they thought that he was the last person, or one of the last people to see the victims alive.

What he did was he gave them details about Sunday night. Apparently there was a gathering at the home. And he also took a test that he passed.

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