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FBI Assisting Investigation into Triple Murder; Larry King Prevented from Testifying at Jackson Trial; Congress May Tighten Restrictions on Women in Military; New Credit Card Readers Faster, Easier

Aired May 19, 2005 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAPT. BEN WOLFINGER, KOOTENAI COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: There was a gathering here at the house, friends over, barbecue, like many of us do on a Sunday afternoon. We need anybody who was at that house on Sunday to contact the sheriff's office through the tip line and identify themselves.

We're gathering every fingerprint in that house that we can find. We have to eliminate those people who were legitimately here at the house. So we need all those people to come in so we can get elimination prints off those folks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And just to clarify, Lutner did take a polygraph test, which he passed.

Meanwhile, the two children, 9-year-old Dylan and 8-year-old Shasta Groene, are missing. An Amber Alert remains in effect. Divers today are searching area pond lakes for any sort of evidence, and authorities are holding out hope that these two children are still alive.

The bodies of their mother, Brenda Groene, a 13-year-old brother, Slade, and a man believed to be the mother's boyfriend were found Monday night at the home.

All evidence, we should mention, that is being gathered at crime scene is being sent to the FBI processing lab in Quantico, Virginia. They believe that is the best place to send the evidence and that the turnaround ultimately will be quicker. An FBI forensic team is here.

We should also mention that authorities have received more than 200 tips, but they say nothing has panned out. They also say that the autopsy reports have come out today, Fredricka, but they will not release the cause of death because they believe that what will happen, if they do that, is that people will call in with false confessions -- Fredricka.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CO-HOST: A couple questions. An awful lot of questions were thrown at Wolfinger. I wonder if he ever addressed the issue of how many people were believed to be at gathering, at that home on Sunday, and if investigators find it rather odd that no one from that party would have called them before this plea today.

CHO: Well, on the first point, Fredricka, they do not know, or at least they won't be telling us at this point, how many people were at that gathering on Sunday night.

And I did ask Captain Wolfinger the question, you know, are there any other people of interest or possible suspects at this point? And they said -- and he said no.

All he would say is that he wants all of those people who were at that gathering on Sunday night to please call the sheriff's tip line so that they can be eliminated as people of interest or suspects because, as you know, right now, that crime scene is still being processed, and they are gathering fingerprints. They want to eliminate all innocent people, if they can.

WHITFIELD: And now they have the cooperation of the FBI involved as well. Right?

CHO: Yes, they do. As I mentioned, a full FBI forensic team is on the scene here in Coeur D'Alene, Idaho. What they are doing is they are sending all of the evidence to the crime lab in Quantico, Virginia, which seems extraordinary. But Captain Wolfinger said that that is the best place to send all the evidence and ultimately, it will come back quicker and they'll get better information as a result.

WHITFIELD: All right, Alina Cho. Thanks so much for that update -- Miles.

MILES O'BRIEN, CO-HOST: He covers the big stories here on CNN, but today Larry King was part of the news, called by the defense to testify at Michael Jackson's child molestation trial.

Our Ted Rowlands picks up the story from there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Larry King showed up to court ready to testify in front of the jury, but before he was allowed to do that, or would possibly be allowed to do that, the judge wanted to hear what he had to say.

So he was under oath and he testified as to what he claims he heard in a conversation between himself and Larry Feldman, an attorney who had represented an alleged victim in 1993 against Jackson, and who had also consulted with the alleged victim and his mother in this case.

Larry King said to the court that he believed that Larry Feldman did not take the case because he says Feldman called the mom psycho or wacko. King reiterated a few times on the stand saying that this mother was, quote, "wacko."

In the end the judge said that he would not allow the defense to bring on Larry King. So King showed up, told the judge what he was going to say, and the judge said no, and he went home. His appearance, in all, was less than an hour, and he left the courthouse.

For the rest of the day, the defense has called Aja Pryor. This is a woman who had very close relationships with the accuser's family for an extended period of time, and specifically in March of 2003.

She talked to the accuser's mother about a number of different things that the defense is bringing out, specifically that this family didn't seem to be under duress while at Neverland Ranch and that Michael Jackson's associates were keeping the children away from Michael Jackson, something she said she was very concerned about.

For the defense, this helps. If indeed Michael Jackson was nowhere near these children, he could not have molested them, as has been alleged. She is expected to be on the stand for most of the rest of the day.

Ted Rowlands, CNN, Santa Maria, California.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Onto Iraq now, more than a dozen people have been killed in a series of attacks across that country today. The victims include a U.S. and an Iraqi soldier in separate incidents, as well as an aide to the country's most influential Shiite cleric.

Gunmen opened fire on an oil ministry official in front of his home in western Baghdad. He was killed in an assassination attempt in the northern city of Mosul, the apparent target a Sunni member of the national assembly. He escaped but at least eight others were killed.

O'BRIEN: The role of women in wartime, it is the subject of heated debate on Capitol Hill. The Pentagon already bars women from direct ground combat, but some lawmakers worry policy and reality are two very different things.

Our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre, joins us with more. We understand there are some new developments to report -- Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Miles, the latest on this is a House committee has backed off a proposal that would have significantly tightened the ban on women in combat, but the battle over the role of women is not over yet.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE (voice-over): There's no question U.S. women are in combat. You could ask Army Sergeant Jennifer Greason (ph), if she wasn't so busy test firing her machine gun on a helicopter patrol over Afghanistan.

But at issue is whether the Pentagon, pressed to fill its ranks, is skirting its own policy, barring women from serving in direct ground combat, especially in Iraq, where there are no front lines.

Take this fire fight, captured in an insurgent video. One of the heroes of the U.S. M.P. unit that killed 26 enemy fighters was a woman, Sergeant Leigh Ann Hester.

SGT. LEIGH ANN HESTER, U.S. ARMY: Immediately, we went to the right side of the convoy and began taking fire. And we lay down suppressive fire, and pushed out the flanks, flanked the insurgents and overcame that day.

MCINTYRE: In fact, there are now some 9,400 female soldiers serving in Iraq and Afghanistan, and so far, 35 have been killed in action.

Some Republicans in the House, led by Armed Services Committee Chairman Duncan Hunter, think too many women have been put in harm's way. Private Jessica Lynch's unit, for example, was never supposed to be on the front lines when it was ambushed after taking a wrong turn.

An amendment passed last week in a House subcommittee would bar women from such forward support units, a move the Army says could close some 22,000 jobs to women.

The Army has been lobbying heavily the full committee to soften the language. And on Capitol Hill, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld isn't conceding there will be any change.

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I'm not sitting around waiting. I'm having meetings with them and discussing them.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE: And it appears that lobbying effort by the Army has paid off. Late last night, the House Armed Services Committee dropped that ban on women in forward units and replaced it with language that more closely mirrors the Pentagon's current policy, banning women from direct combat.

The language still has to go the full floor of the house, and it's not in the Senate version of the bill, so it could still be killed in conference. The Pentagon says it can live with this version but would just as soon as have no legislation on this matter and have a free hand to do what it thinks is best.

O'BRIEN: Well, certainly, in essence, Congress is pretty much rubber stamping what the Pentagon is doing already? Is that pretty much the take away from this?

MCINTYRE: Well, not really. The dispute there is between members of Congress who believe the Pentagon is not following its own policy. And basically the Pentagon is saying, "Yes, we'll follow our policy."

And the Republicans in the House are saying, "OK, well, we're going to put that into law so that you have to follow it, and then you're going to have to report back to us and make sure that you're following it." The Pentagon says it can live with that; it would rather not have to do that.

And again, this language, which is in the House bill now could still be knocked out in conference committee, which would be the Pentagon's preference.

O'REILLY: It's hard to keep clear cut policy in the fog of war as they say, isn't it?

MCINTYRE: Well, that's the whole point, is that these days it's very hard to say that even the women who are in these noncombat units are not in combat. Everybody is -- has dangerous assignments.

We just got a release from the U.S. military yesterday about a unit that has assigned a convoy protection. It's got three women gunners in vehicles protecting convoys. Well, that's the most dangerous duty in Iraq these days. So you certainly couldn't they're not on the front lines.

O'BRIEN: Right. But not technically. Front lines. All right. Jamie McIntyre, appreciate that.

A month and a half after their private family tragedy became a political and religious phenom, the parents of Terri Schiavo shared a moment with the pope today. Devote Catholics Bob and Mary Schindler were in the weekly public audience of Benedict XVI at the Vatican, after which they spoke to Bill Hemmer CNN's "AMERICAN MORNING."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARY SCHINDLER, TERRI SCHIAVO'S MOTHER: The meeting with the pope was -- when I saw him coming up from the side, and I couldn't believe he was going to come all the way up. I had the picture there, and I told him it was a picture of Terri. And like I said before, he said I know, I know, it's Terri.

But he touched his heart and kept patting his heart like it broke my heart. And then I gave him the picture, and he took it, and it was -- it was so beautiful.

BILL HEMMER, CO-HOST, "AMERICAN MORNING": Also the Vatican, Mr. Schindler, you met with the cardinal. Guinati Retino (ph) is his name. Why this particular cardinal? What did you talk about?

ROBERT SCHINDLER, TERRI SCHIAVO'S FATHER: Essentially, we were explaining to the cardinal what our ambitions are as we further Terri's foundation. It was started originally for Terri, but we will continue our efforts and literally be crusading against any type of euthanasia, wherever we can help.

And essentially the bottom line is that what happened to Terri should never, ever, ever happen to another human being, not only in the United States but throughout the world.

HEMMER: As you look back, as a couple right now fighting for your daughter, in all the legal battles that we all watched play out publicly on every TV set in this country, is there something you would do differently based on the strategy that you carried now the Florida?

I think that we had our legal representation was beyond reproach. We were fortunately blessed with good attorneys, but it was the mind- set of the courts and we view it as judicial homicide. So what could do you different? I really don't know. They were firmly set to do what they were going to do, and nothing would stop them.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: The Schindler family's campaign is chronicled on the web site TerrisFight -- that's one word, no apostrophe -- dot org.

Well, a card company announces a new way to pay with plastic.

WHITFIELD: But will the convenience end up costing you? A demonstration of how the flash and pay card works, straight ahead.

O'BRIEN: And a congressman's kid who knows what we all do at those committee hearings.

WHITFIELD: Isn't he cute?

O'BRIEN: Not quite going to Disney World, is it? We'll have that ahead, as well. Stay with us.

ANNOUNCER: You're watching LIVE FROM on CNN, the most trusted name in news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Just in time for the impending hurricane season, Adrian is out there. It was a tropical storm, but I have a feeling Rob Marciano, you're going to tell us something else.

(WEATHER REPORT)

WHITFIELD: Let's come back to me.

ROB MARCIANO, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Thanks, Fred.

O'BRIEN: Thanks for driving the bus. There you go.

WHITFIELD: I'm taking a turn.

O'BRIEN: When I say the term flash and go, what do you think of? Public indecency and then running away? No, no.

WHITFIELD: Flash and go. Talking to people that are not dressed (ph) properly.

O'BRIEN: Actually, this has to do with credit cards, folks. Major credit card companies are rolling out a new swipeless card. But it's raising some issue, and it has nothing to do with the rain coats.

CNN senior correspondent Allan Chernoff, live from New York with details and a demo of the card, right, Allan?

ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Exactly, Miles. Are you tired of trying to swipe your card and swipe it again, and the transaction simply doesn't go through? Well, soon you'll actually be able to flash your card.

So here at the financier in lower Manhattan if I want some delicious biscotti, all I need to do is actually flash it in front of a reader, and as you can see, there's chip technology embedded right into the card. Here's the little antenna surrounding that chip. That's what makes this technology possible.

American Express has been test marketing this in Phoenix for actually two years, and next month they plan to go nationwide with it. Chase Bank also is planning to do that. Chase is the largest card issuer in the entire country, so this will be a big splash.

It certainly is widely anticipated, and it is going to increase the speed of charging. So plastic is going to increase in speed. The only question here, though, is the technology, in fact, secure?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AVI RUBIN, JOHN HOPKINS UNIVERSITY: It's very, very easy to get the security wrong when you do something like this, because you're constrained by the low power in these batteryless devices. The devices -- the cards don't have batteries on them, so the circuits can only compute very simple functions. And so getting security with such a low power environment is quite difficult.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHERNOFF: The card companies say they have actually achieved that, and that their technology is rock solid.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID BONALLE, AMERICAN EXPRESS: Any card member with American Express will never be held liable for any fraudulent charges. Our consumers are protected. What this -- what this new technology allows us to do is to prevent the more sophisticated types of fraud, of stealing the card data directly from the card.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHERNOFF: So Amex is going to be introducing this on their blue card. It won't be offered on the traditional green American Express card, but they are certainly anticipating that this is going to increase the use of credit cards.

So, Miles, as one industry executive said to me earlier today, cash is going to be very boring.

O'BRIEN: I'm still confused. He said it actually increases security by making it harder to get a hold of the data off the card. If it's actually emitting this information, wouldn't it be easier to get it?

CHERNOFF: What they're saying is that the -- when you actually make a transaction, when I flash the card here, that is creating an individual data signature, whereas with a traditional card, every time you use that card, it's the same data encrypted.

So it's easier for a scam artist to actually take a machine. If he were able to actually get your card, he could scan the card and get your number off of that card.

With this type of technology, that can't be done. So that's why they're saying this, in fact, is better technology, is more secure.

There is one problem though, potentially, and that is they're not requiring merchants to take a signature. So you won't be able to verify the card holder. Somebody steals that card, that could be a problem.

O'BRIEN: Allan, tell me the truth, has swiping the card been killing you?

CHERNOFF: Actually, sometimes it does take a few, yes. We've got long lines here in New York.

O'BRIEN: All right.

CHERNOFF: Frustrated New Yorkers.

WHITFIELD: The amount of time this is going to save.

O'BRIEN: No time for swiping. OK. All right, Allan, we'll see you later.

CHERNOFF: And you know, we hate to wait in New York.

O'BRIEN: There you go. It's all about the New Yorkers and not waiting. All right. Thanks a lot, Allan -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: Well, that makes me nervous. But this might make you nervous, too. Imagine you're stuck in traffic, and you see this. It gives a whole new meaning to the term rubber necking. It's developing at LIVE FROM photo mat, straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: All right. You don't want the giraffe truck to hit a low bridge, by the way.

WHITFIELD: Oh, no.

O'BRIEN: Congress yesterday, bonus picture, this one moving. Congressman Lacy Clay today with his son, William "Will" Clay III. He's all of 4. It's Take Your Son to Work Day.

WHITFIELD: Trying to do everything.

O'BRIEN: And you know, play with your Blackberry, please, the games. The hearing goes on.

WHITFIELD: As long as he stays quiet. Dad gave him, you know, the little "shh" sign. Be quiet. Play quietly with that Blackberry. O'BRIEN: I think he took back possession of the Blackberry eventually.

Anyway, it's always fun to take your kids to work. It seems like it's fun for them; it's not. Four-year-olds just don't, you know.

WHITFIELD: It looked like he was having a good time.

O'BRIEN: Even if it's Congress; even if it's television. Even if it's Judy Woodruff.

WHITFIELD: Like in Washington.

O'BRIEN: That would bore them. I'm sorry, Judy.

JUDY WOODRUFF, HOST, "INSIDE POLITICS": We need more young ones like him in Washington. It would solve all of our problems.

O'BRIEN: Babysitting Woodruff (ph), yes.

WOODRUFF: All right, Fredricka, Miles, thank you both.

The war of words, meanwhile, continues on Capitol Hill today as the Senate debates the president's judicial nominees. We'll go live to the Hill for the latest on the Senate showdown.

Plus, it is off to the Middle East for the first lady as Mrs. Bush prepares for her five-day, three-country trip, and a look at her itinerary and its importance.

All this and more coming up on "INSIDE POLITICS."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

END

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Aired May 19, 2005 - 15:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAPT. BEN WOLFINGER, KOOTENAI COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: There was a gathering here at the house, friends over, barbecue, like many of us do on a Sunday afternoon. We need anybody who was at that house on Sunday to contact the sheriff's office through the tip line and identify themselves.

We're gathering every fingerprint in that house that we can find. We have to eliminate those people who were legitimately here at the house. So we need all those people to come in so we can get elimination prints off those folks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And just to clarify, Lutner did take a polygraph test, which he passed.

Meanwhile, the two children, 9-year-old Dylan and 8-year-old Shasta Groene, are missing. An Amber Alert remains in effect. Divers today are searching area pond lakes for any sort of evidence, and authorities are holding out hope that these two children are still alive.

The bodies of their mother, Brenda Groene, a 13-year-old brother, Slade, and a man believed to be the mother's boyfriend were found Monday night at the home.

All evidence, we should mention, that is being gathered at crime scene is being sent to the FBI processing lab in Quantico, Virginia. They believe that is the best place to send the evidence and that the turnaround ultimately will be quicker. An FBI forensic team is here.

We should also mention that authorities have received more than 200 tips, but they say nothing has panned out. They also say that the autopsy reports have come out today, Fredricka, but they will not release the cause of death because they believe that what will happen, if they do that, is that people will call in with false confessions -- Fredricka.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CO-HOST: A couple questions. An awful lot of questions were thrown at Wolfinger. I wonder if he ever addressed the issue of how many people were believed to be at gathering, at that home on Sunday, and if investigators find it rather odd that no one from that party would have called them before this plea today.

CHO: Well, on the first point, Fredricka, they do not know, or at least they won't be telling us at this point, how many people were at that gathering on Sunday night.

And I did ask Captain Wolfinger the question, you know, are there any other people of interest or possible suspects at this point? And they said -- and he said no.

All he would say is that he wants all of those people who were at that gathering on Sunday night to please call the sheriff's tip line so that they can be eliminated as people of interest or suspects because, as you know, right now, that crime scene is still being processed, and they are gathering fingerprints. They want to eliminate all innocent people, if they can.

WHITFIELD: And now they have the cooperation of the FBI involved as well. Right?

CHO: Yes, they do. As I mentioned, a full FBI forensic team is on the scene here in Coeur D'Alene, Idaho. What they are doing is they are sending all of the evidence to the crime lab in Quantico, Virginia, which seems extraordinary. But Captain Wolfinger said that that is the best place to send all the evidence and ultimately, it will come back quicker and they'll get better information as a result.

WHITFIELD: All right, Alina Cho. Thanks so much for that update -- Miles.

MILES O'BRIEN, CO-HOST: He covers the big stories here on CNN, but today Larry King was part of the news, called by the defense to testify at Michael Jackson's child molestation trial.

Our Ted Rowlands picks up the story from there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Larry King showed up to court ready to testify in front of the jury, but before he was allowed to do that, or would possibly be allowed to do that, the judge wanted to hear what he had to say.

So he was under oath and he testified as to what he claims he heard in a conversation between himself and Larry Feldman, an attorney who had represented an alleged victim in 1993 against Jackson, and who had also consulted with the alleged victim and his mother in this case.

Larry King said to the court that he believed that Larry Feldman did not take the case because he says Feldman called the mom psycho or wacko. King reiterated a few times on the stand saying that this mother was, quote, "wacko."

In the end the judge said that he would not allow the defense to bring on Larry King. So King showed up, told the judge what he was going to say, and the judge said no, and he went home. His appearance, in all, was less than an hour, and he left the courthouse.

For the rest of the day, the defense has called Aja Pryor. This is a woman who had very close relationships with the accuser's family for an extended period of time, and specifically in March of 2003.

She talked to the accuser's mother about a number of different things that the defense is bringing out, specifically that this family didn't seem to be under duress while at Neverland Ranch and that Michael Jackson's associates were keeping the children away from Michael Jackson, something she said she was very concerned about.

For the defense, this helps. If indeed Michael Jackson was nowhere near these children, he could not have molested them, as has been alleged. She is expected to be on the stand for most of the rest of the day.

Ted Rowlands, CNN, Santa Maria, California.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Onto Iraq now, more than a dozen people have been killed in a series of attacks across that country today. The victims include a U.S. and an Iraqi soldier in separate incidents, as well as an aide to the country's most influential Shiite cleric.

Gunmen opened fire on an oil ministry official in front of his home in western Baghdad. He was killed in an assassination attempt in the northern city of Mosul, the apparent target a Sunni member of the national assembly. He escaped but at least eight others were killed.

O'BRIEN: The role of women in wartime, it is the subject of heated debate on Capitol Hill. The Pentagon already bars women from direct ground combat, but some lawmakers worry policy and reality are two very different things.

Our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre, joins us with more. We understand there are some new developments to report -- Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Miles, the latest on this is a House committee has backed off a proposal that would have significantly tightened the ban on women in combat, but the battle over the role of women is not over yet.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE (voice-over): There's no question U.S. women are in combat. You could ask Army Sergeant Jennifer Greason (ph), if she wasn't so busy test firing her machine gun on a helicopter patrol over Afghanistan.

But at issue is whether the Pentagon, pressed to fill its ranks, is skirting its own policy, barring women from serving in direct ground combat, especially in Iraq, where there are no front lines.

Take this fire fight, captured in an insurgent video. One of the heroes of the U.S. M.P. unit that killed 26 enemy fighters was a woman, Sergeant Leigh Ann Hester.

SGT. LEIGH ANN HESTER, U.S. ARMY: Immediately, we went to the right side of the convoy and began taking fire. And we lay down suppressive fire, and pushed out the flanks, flanked the insurgents and overcame that day.

MCINTYRE: In fact, there are now some 9,400 female soldiers serving in Iraq and Afghanistan, and so far, 35 have been killed in action.

Some Republicans in the House, led by Armed Services Committee Chairman Duncan Hunter, think too many women have been put in harm's way. Private Jessica Lynch's unit, for example, was never supposed to be on the front lines when it was ambushed after taking a wrong turn.

An amendment passed last week in a House subcommittee would bar women from such forward support units, a move the Army says could close some 22,000 jobs to women.

The Army has been lobbying heavily the full committee to soften the language. And on Capitol Hill, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld isn't conceding there will be any change.

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I'm not sitting around waiting. I'm having meetings with them and discussing them.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE: And it appears that lobbying effort by the Army has paid off. Late last night, the House Armed Services Committee dropped that ban on women in forward units and replaced it with language that more closely mirrors the Pentagon's current policy, banning women from direct combat.

The language still has to go the full floor of the house, and it's not in the Senate version of the bill, so it could still be killed in conference. The Pentagon says it can live with this version but would just as soon as have no legislation on this matter and have a free hand to do what it thinks is best.

O'BRIEN: Well, certainly, in essence, Congress is pretty much rubber stamping what the Pentagon is doing already? Is that pretty much the take away from this?

MCINTYRE: Well, not really. The dispute there is between members of Congress who believe the Pentagon is not following its own policy. And basically the Pentagon is saying, "Yes, we'll follow our policy."

And the Republicans in the House are saying, "OK, well, we're going to put that into law so that you have to follow it, and then you're going to have to report back to us and make sure that you're following it." The Pentagon says it can live with that; it would rather not have to do that.

And again, this language, which is in the House bill now could still be knocked out in conference committee, which would be the Pentagon's preference.

O'REILLY: It's hard to keep clear cut policy in the fog of war as they say, isn't it?

MCINTYRE: Well, that's the whole point, is that these days it's very hard to say that even the women who are in these noncombat units are not in combat. Everybody is -- has dangerous assignments.

We just got a release from the U.S. military yesterday about a unit that has assigned a convoy protection. It's got three women gunners in vehicles protecting convoys. Well, that's the most dangerous duty in Iraq these days. So you certainly couldn't they're not on the front lines.

O'BRIEN: Right. But not technically. Front lines. All right. Jamie McIntyre, appreciate that.

A month and a half after their private family tragedy became a political and religious phenom, the parents of Terri Schiavo shared a moment with the pope today. Devote Catholics Bob and Mary Schindler were in the weekly public audience of Benedict XVI at the Vatican, after which they spoke to Bill Hemmer CNN's "AMERICAN MORNING."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARY SCHINDLER, TERRI SCHIAVO'S MOTHER: The meeting with the pope was -- when I saw him coming up from the side, and I couldn't believe he was going to come all the way up. I had the picture there, and I told him it was a picture of Terri. And like I said before, he said I know, I know, it's Terri.

But he touched his heart and kept patting his heart like it broke my heart. And then I gave him the picture, and he took it, and it was -- it was so beautiful.

BILL HEMMER, CO-HOST, "AMERICAN MORNING": Also the Vatican, Mr. Schindler, you met with the cardinal. Guinati Retino (ph) is his name. Why this particular cardinal? What did you talk about?

ROBERT SCHINDLER, TERRI SCHIAVO'S FATHER: Essentially, we were explaining to the cardinal what our ambitions are as we further Terri's foundation. It was started originally for Terri, but we will continue our efforts and literally be crusading against any type of euthanasia, wherever we can help.

And essentially the bottom line is that what happened to Terri should never, ever, ever happen to another human being, not only in the United States but throughout the world.

HEMMER: As you look back, as a couple right now fighting for your daughter, in all the legal battles that we all watched play out publicly on every TV set in this country, is there something you would do differently based on the strategy that you carried now the Florida?

I think that we had our legal representation was beyond reproach. We were fortunately blessed with good attorneys, but it was the mind- set of the courts and we view it as judicial homicide. So what could do you different? I really don't know. They were firmly set to do what they were going to do, and nothing would stop them.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: The Schindler family's campaign is chronicled on the web site TerrisFight -- that's one word, no apostrophe -- dot org.

Well, a card company announces a new way to pay with plastic.

WHITFIELD: But will the convenience end up costing you? A demonstration of how the flash and pay card works, straight ahead.

O'BRIEN: And a congressman's kid who knows what we all do at those committee hearings.

WHITFIELD: Isn't he cute?

O'BRIEN: Not quite going to Disney World, is it? We'll have that ahead, as well. Stay with us.

ANNOUNCER: You're watching LIVE FROM on CNN, the most trusted name in news.

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WHITFIELD: Just in time for the impending hurricane season, Adrian is out there. It was a tropical storm, but I have a feeling Rob Marciano, you're going to tell us something else.

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WHITFIELD: Let's come back to me.

ROB MARCIANO, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Thanks, Fred.

O'BRIEN: Thanks for driving the bus. There you go.

WHITFIELD: I'm taking a turn.

O'BRIEN: When I say the term flash and go, what do you think of? Public indecency and then running away? No, no.

WHITFIELD: Flash and go. Talking to people that are not dressed (ph) properly.

O'BRIEN: Actually, this has to do with credit cards, folks. Major credit card companies are rolling out a new swipeless card. But it's raising some issue, and it has nothing to do with the rain coats.

CNN senior correspondent Allan Chernoff, live from New York with details and a demo of the card, right, Allan?

ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Exactly, Miles. Are you tired of trying to swipe your card and swipe it again, and the transaction simply doesn't go through? Well, soon you'll actually be able to flash your card.

So here at the financier in lower Manhattan if I want some delicious biscotti, all I need to do is actually flash it in front of a reader, and as you can see, there's chip technology embedded right into the card. Here's the little antenna surrounding that chip. That's what makes this technology possible.

American Express has been test marketing this in Phoenix for actually two years, and next month they plan to go nationwide with it. Chase Bank also is planning to do that. Chase is the largest card issuer in the entire country, so this will be a big splash.

It certainly is widely anticipated, and it is going to increase the speed of charging. So plastic is going to increase in speed. The only question here, though, is the technology, in fact, secure?

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AVI RUBIN, JOHN HOPKINS UNIVERSITY: It's very, very easy to get the security wrong when you do something like this, because you're constrained by the low power in these batteryless devices. The devices -- the cards don't have batteries on them, so the circuits can only compute very simple functions. And so getting security with such a low power environment is quite difficult.

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CHERNOFF: The card companies say they have actually achieved that, and that their technology is rock solid.

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DAVID BONALLE, AMERICAN EXPRESS: Any card member with American Express will never be held liable for any fraudulent charges. Our consumers are protected. What this -- what this new technology allows us to do is to prevent the more sophisticated types of fraud, of stealing the card data directly from the card.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHERNOFF: So Amex is going to be introducing this on their blue card. It won't be offered on the traditional green American Express card, but they are certainly anticipating that this is going to increase the use of credit cards.

So, Miles, as one industry executive said to me earlier today, cash is going to be very boring.

O'BRIEN: I'm still confused. He said it actually increases security by making it harder to get a hold of the data off the card. If it's actually emitting this information, wouldn't it be easier to get it?

CHERNOFF: What they're saying is that the -- when you actually make a transaction, when I flash the card here, that is creating an individual data signature, whereas with a traditional card, every time you use that card, it's the same data encrypted.

So it's easier for a scam artist to actually take a machine. If he were able to actually get your card, he could scan the card and get your number off of that card.

With this type of technology, that can't be done. So that's why they're saying this, in fact, is better technology, is more secure.

There is one problem though, potentially, and that is they're not requiring merchants to take a signature. So you won't be able to verify the card holder. Somebody steals that card, that could be a problem.

O'BRIEN: Allan, tell me the truth, has swiping the card been killing you?

CHERNOFF: Actually, sometimes it does take a few, yes. We've got long lines here in New York.

O'BRIEN: All right.

CHERNOFF: Frustrated New Yorkers.

WHITFIELD: The amount of time this is going to save.

O'BRIEN: No time for swiping. OK. All right, Allan, we'll see you later.

CHERNOFF: And you know, we hate to wait in New York.

O'BRIEN: There you go. It's all about the New Yorkers and not waiting. All right. Thanks a lot, Allan -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: Well, that makes me nervous. But this might make you nervous, too. Imagine you're stuck in traffic, and you see this. It gives a whole new meaning to the term rubber necking. It's developing at LIVE FROM photo mat, straight ahead.

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O'BRIEN: All right. You don't want the giraffe truck to hit a low bridge, by the way.

WHITFIELD: Oh, no.

O'BRIEN: Congress yesterday, bonus picture, this one moving. Congressman Lacy Clay today with his son, William "Will" Clay III. He's all of 4. It's Take Your Son to Work Day.

WHITFIELD: Trying to do everything.

O'BRIEN: And you know, play with your Blackberry, please, the games. The hearing goes on.

WHITFIELD: As long as he stays quiet. Dad gave him, you know, the little "shh" sign. Be quiet. Play quietly with that Blackberry. O'BRIEN: I think he took back possession of the Blackberry eventually.

Anyway, it's always fun to take your kids to work. It seems like it's fun for them; it's not. Four-year-olds just don't, you know.

WHITFIELD: It looked like he was having a good time.

O'BRIEN: Even if it's Congress; even if it's television. Even if it's Judy Woodruff.

WHITFIELD: Like in Washington.

O'BRIEN: That would bore them. I'm sorry, Judy.

JUDY WOODRUFF, HOST, "INSIDE POLITICS": We need more young ones like him in Washington. It would solve all of our problems.

O'BRIEN: Babysitting Woodruff (ph), yes.

WOODRUFF: All right, Fredricka, Miles, thank you both.

The war of words, meanwhile, continues on Capitol Hill today as the Senate debates the president's judicial nominees. We'll go live to the Hill for the latest on the Senate showdown.

Plus, it is off to the Middle East for the first lady as Mrs. Bush prepares for her five-day, three-country trip, and a look at her itinerary and its importance.

All this and more coming up on "INSIDE POLITICS."

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