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FBI Analyze Evidence from Idaho Triple Murder; Howard Dean Makes Controversial Remarks

Aired May 23, 2005 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BETTY NGUYEN: Here's a live look at a press conference underway right now in Idaho on those two missing children. Let's take a listen.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

CAPT. BEN WOLFINGER, KOOTENAI CO. SHERIFF'S DEPT: .. to the call center. That's a great thing. Those -- some of those are great tips. you know, I think I saw the children, that type tips. Some are a little lower priority, but they're all getting followed up on. Those are moving along real well.

This afternoon at 3:00, the sheriff and the special agent in charge from the FBI would like to have a press conference here at the fairgrounds, and I believe the topic will be the reward. So that's all I have right now. I'm happy to take any questions.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

WOLFINGER: Yes. The -- understand, though, the lie detector, or polygraph, measures physiological response to an emotional state. And I confirmed that with the polygrapher today, because I am no polygrapher. But Steve Groene is obviously very distraught and he's very upset. Lie detectors are not foolproof. We know that. Otherwise, the courts would accept them whole-heartedly. They're an investigative tool. And there is no evidence linking Steve Groene to this crime to make him a suspect or a person of interest.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE). Do you know anything about that?

WOLFINGER: I don't know anything about that. I hadn't heard that.

QUESTION: Then were reports over the weekend that the younger children were inside of the residence when the homicides happened. Can you touch on that? And also if you guys believe that the victims knew the killer?

WOLFINGER; Sure. We've never denied the fact that we believe the children were in the residence when this incidence occurred. We just -- it never had been asked before. So that wasn't a great revelation to us. We always believed that, that the children were there. As far as known to the family, that statement came from the lead investigator, Detective Maskell (ph). And that was based on the fact that there was no obvious signs of forced entry, that the people had been in -- the suspect or suspects had been invited into the residence. That's where that came from -- John.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

WOLFINGER: I don't know. That information hasn't been shared with me at this point.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

WOLFINGER: Well, our animal control came out and was able to take the animals into custody safely, all but one. And we actually had to humanely trap it later, on a food bait trap. And the animals are all being sheltered at this point. So I don't believe they had any trouble getting into the home because of the dogs.

NGUYEN: You've been listening to Captain Ben Wolfinger in Coeur D'Alene, Idaho in the case of the two missing children, whose mother was found a week ago dead in the home along with their brother and their mother's boyfriend. The captain was just telling us that Steve Groene, the children's father, although reports have come out that he failed a polygraph test by the FBI, that he is not related to this crime, as the investigation is underway.

Of course, 3:00 this afternoon, he mentioned there will be a press conference by the FBI to talk about a reward in this case. So you want to stay tuned for that -- Miles.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, let's talk about politics now. Howard Dean, the Dean N.C., he didn't pull any verbal punches in his first nationally televised interview since being elected to that post of chairman of the DNC. On Sunday's "Meet the Press," Dean knocked Tom DeLay, Rush Limbaugh and the president specifically and the GOP in general. Is Howard Dean, indeed, the voice of the party? Should he be?

Let's kick this one around a little bit with Bill Press and Martha Zoller, both radio talk show hosts. And get this, folks, they have political points of view. So we bring them in.

BILL PRESS, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Hi, Miles.

O'BRIEN: Martha's here in Atlanta.

MARTHA ZOLLER, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Hi, there.

O'BRIEN: Bill's in Washington. Good to have you both with us.

PRESS: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Martha Zoller, since you're here, ladies first, all that stuff, Howard Dean, you know -- when Howard Dean was elected chairman of the DNC, nobody expected it to be boring. Right? This is good for us. We know that in the media, because he's good copy.

ZOLLER: It's good for me, too.

O'BRIEN: Is he actually better for Republicans than Democrats potentially?

ZOLLER: Well, I think that Howard Dean is a guy who says what he thinks and he doesn't think much about what he says before he says it. And to say on the one hand...

O'BRIEN: We love these people in the media.

ZOLLER: We do love that.

O'BRIEN: We do.

ZOLLER: On the one hands, with Tom DeLay, who certainly has ethics issue -- I'll admit that as a conservative. But he hasn't been charged with anything, he hasn't been sent to prison yet. He says that --, you know, he should go to prison, but you all know, Osama bin Laden, two years ago, he's says, well, we should give him the benefit of doubt.

O'BRIEN: All right. Let's put up a full screen, some of the statements that were made by Tom DeLay and we'll walk you through. And Bill, I want you to look at this and read along with me at home with me, viewers, and tell me where the line is.

"This gentleman is not an ethical person. He ought not to be leading Congress, period." Is the line there?

ZOLLER: No. I think that's OK.

O'BRIEN: Bill, line there?

PRESS: No.

O'BRIEN: OK. "I don't think it's appropriate for Tom Delay to be in Congress." Line?

ZOLLER: That's fine.

O'BRIEN: Bill Press, line?

ZOLLER: Absolutely correct.

O'BRIEN: OK, final one. "I think there's a reasonable chance that this, and he, might end up in jail." Cross the line?

ZOLLER: I think that crosses the line.

O'BRIEN: Bill Press?

PRESS: I wouldn't go that far.

O'BRIEN: Yes?

ZOLLER: Oh, no, we're agreeing.

PRESS: No, no, no, let me finish.

O'BRIEN: That's not the way it's supposed to be.

PRESS: It's not that big a stretch, given that three of his top aides have been indicted in a case in Florida in which Tom DeLay is involved.

O'BRIEN: Wait. No, wait a minute, Bill. ...

PRESS: But I think we ought to wait for the indictment before we send him to jail.

O'BRIEN: Howard Dean, when he was running for president, said you know, Osama bin Laden is innocent until proven guilty.

PRESS: You know, I'm not going to agree with everything that Howard Dean says...

O'BRIEN: (INAUDIBLE)?

PRESS: I'm not going to agree with anything that Howard Dean says, but let me tell you this. I think that Dr. Dean is just what the doctor ordered for the Democratic party.

O'BRIEN: Really?

PRESS: Because for years they've been afraid of their own shadow, ever since 9/11, and now they've got somebody who's going to stand up and fight back and speak out, and, yes, sometimes he'll make a mistake, but it's better than that robot heading the Republican National Committee.

O'BRIEN: All right, but here's the difference. Yes, here's the difference. And that's a good point, because Howard Dean speaks. He's got that loose cannon kind of appeal, he says all kinds of wild things. And among Democrats, there's this kind of a deafening silence. The Republicans have tremendous discipline with their talking points. They're all like robots, they all say the same thing over and over again. The Democrats don't have that figured out yet, do they?

ZOLLER: Well, and I agree with you. And I think he is the person that's supposed to deliver the message. And I think if he's going to deliver the message, what bothers me -- or makes me happy, depending on -- you know, if I'm on the air or not, is that when he delivers that message it's inconsistent. Really to say the president -- to say the president's Social Security plan is like Enron. Privatization is like Enron. There is nothing to say on that and he didn't offer an alternative. Democrats need to come to the table. That's what people are upset about.

O'BRIEN: All right, well, now, wait a minute now.

PRESS: There go the talking points, Miles.

O'BRIEN: You're not going to hold...

ZOLLER: There's no talking point. O'BRIEN: I think I just heard a -- Bill, let's talk about that, Because it seems like Martha is holding him accountable for his political rhetoric, and that's very unusual in America, to be held accountable for what you say in a political statement.

ZOLLER: No. Enron was the talking point, and it was a Democratic talking point.

O'BRIEN: All right, go ahead, Bill.

PRESS: My turn, Martha. Two quick points. Number one, if we're talking about holding people accountable, Dr. Dean doesn't even make the list. I mean, I remember the president called somebody a major league body part. Dick Cheney said a senator should commit an unnatural act. Rick Santorum last week compared Democrats to Hitler. So I mean, let's get...

ZOLLER: But they apologized and took responsibility.

O'BRIEN: All right, but you know...

PRESS: In context. But secondly, second quick point, the role of a party chairman, and I used to be a party chairman before I came here to CNN for "CROSSFIRE," is to stir up the troops. It's not be Mr. Nice guy. It's to get out there get people excited...

ZOLLER: And to raise money, which he is not doing.

PRESS: ... get people energized. And he's good at that.

O'BRIEN: All right, but the money raising thing we'll talk about in a minute. Bill, that -- money-raising is obviously very important, but to the extent that a guy like Dean plays into the hands of Republicans. Are there some Democrats that are a little concerned about the rhetoric? Would they rather see him move the party toward the center?

PRESS: There are some Democrats, yes, who would rather see him move the party to the center. I think they are wrong. I think hiding under a bushel for the last three years has cost Democrats. It's time to stand up and fight. They need a fighter like Howard Dean.

ZOLLER: But the fact of the matter is, is the country is more center right. It's certainly not far right. And if you're far left to start off with, you've got a lot further to go to become mainstream than Republicans do on the far right to become mainstream.

PRESS: Yes, but just because Howard Dean slipped maybe and said that Tom DeLay belongs in jail, that doesn't mean he's on the extreme...

ZOLLER: But it's not the first time, Bill.

PRESS: That doesn't mean he's on the extreme left.

O'BRIEN: Howard Dean did a great job raising money as a presidential candidate. Is he having trouble as a DNC chairman?

ZOLLER: Well, he had a great job raising money and then went $8 million in the hole. He owed $8 million when it was all done.

O'BRIEN: That was a grassroots Internet campaign.

ZOLLER: And didn't win a single primary, though, until he got to Vermont.

O'BRIEN: But, no no. You just said money raising, though. He's good at raising money.

ZOLLER: Not so far. The first quarter, the Democrats have raised half of what the Republicans have.

O'BRIEN: Bill, what's going on with that? Why?

PRESS: Miles, he's only been there three months. Look, Howard Dean totally...

ZOLLER: It's the same three months. Ken Mehlman's only been there three months.

PRESS: Please, please, please. One at a time. Howard Dean totally changed American politics. American politics will never be the same because Howard Dean showed you could use the Internet to raise millions and millions of dollars and millions of volunteers. He's going to do that for the Democratic Party. Just watch.

O'BRIEN: All right. We've got to the leave it there.

ZOLLER: We will. We'll leave it there.

O'BRIEN: Bill Press, Martha Zoller -- they have political opinions.

ZOLLER: Yes, we do.

O'BRIEN: Which is why you frequently see them here on CNN. Bill Press, good to see you especially. Always good to see you, Martha, but, Bill, haven't seen him in a while.

ZOLLER: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Back with more in a moment.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Lawrence Douglas Wilder has earned a reputation exploring uncharted territory, politically as well as racially. He graduated from the private all-black Virginia Union University, after being turned away from all-white schools in his native Virginia.

Doug Wilder went on to become a celebrated criminal lawyer, state senator, lieutenant governor, and in 1990, the first black governor ever elected in the U.S.

DOUGLAS WILDER, FORMER VIRGINIA GOVERNOR: The people of Virginia have spoken tonight!

CORRESPONDENT: To demonstrate distaste for his state's history of slavery, Wilder chose to take his oath of office outside Virginia's capitol, a building that had served as the Confederate capitol during the Civil War.

Now, at 74, he's beginning a new phase of public service. Last November, following a historic change in the city charter, he became the first mayor elected by the people, rather than the council in his hometown, Richmond.

WILDER: What is it that we are to do, and who are you there for? You're there to represent the people.

CORRESPONDENT: Today, Mayor Doug Wilder is a common sight on the streets of Richmond and Virginia Commonwealth University, where he teaches political science.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: Heads up, tennis fans! Put down those rackets and head to our Web site, because Christina Park at the dot.com desk has details on the French Open.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTINA PARK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lots of excitement at this year's French Open. And si.com/tennis is serving you all the highlights online, starting with the number-one seed, 23-year-old wonder, Roger Federer. This powerhouse has reason to believe he can master the thick red clay at Roland Garros. Federer just won a clay tournament in Hamburg, and with a win and the French, could join Andre Agassi as the only active men's player to win all four major titles.

Completing a career Grand Slam is the pinnacle in the tennis world. Talent and versatility are key to winning on grass, hard courts and clay, each requiring a different mix of power, speed, finesse and creativity. Only five men have accomplished this feat.

Now, the women's tournament is just as exciting, and the nearly $6 million prize is up for grabs this year. 2002 French Open champ Serena Williams pulled out Friday due to problems stemming from a left ankle sprain six weeks ago. Many experts favor 10-seed Justine Henin- Hardenne, the 2003 French champion.

At si.com, you'll also get the complete first-round draw, seedings, plus a history of all-time champions and highlights from previous Grand Slams. Si.com/tennis is your online sports headquarters for the 2005 French open.

Reporting from the dot-com desk, I'm Christina Park. Bonchamp. (END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: And now a story that animal lovers will find difficult to watch and that residents of India are calling a national shame. CNN'S Satinder Bindra on a scandal at a prestigious national park that comes even as the world's tiger population is rapidly dwindling.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SATINDER BINDRA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Feast your eyes. This is a rare sight in a country where rampant poaching is endangering the very survival of the royal Bengal tiger. The government says 114 tigers have been killed in India in the past five years. Conservation groups say it's many more.

For poachers, each dead tiger is worth about $140,000. Tiger skins fetch $20,000 each. And the animal's bones and body parts are in great demand for making traditional Chinese medicine.

BELINDA WRIGHT, CONSERVATIONIST: What we're up against is organized wildlife crime. And, you know, we have not been able to get that message across to the government.

BINDRA: An estimated 60 percent of the world's tigers are found in India. Thirty years ago, New Delhi won international praise for launching a well administered preservation program call "Project Tiger." But a mixture of complacency, loss of habitat and poaching has led to a shrinking population.

International experts believe the official figure of 3 1/2 thousand tigers in India is wildly exaggerated.

(on camera): Recently, the Indian prime minister's office was embarrassed when it was revealed all tigers living in a prestigious national park had been killed. The official census though still showed several tigers still living there.

(voice-over): In the aftermath of the scandal, India's prime minister set up a special task force to save the tiger. Also underway is a tiger census. Conservationist Belinda Wright shows us the latest methods being used to more accurately gauge the tiger population.

WRIGHT: They're extremely endangered as a species. Their last chance of survival is here in India.

BINDRA: With plenty of food still available for tigers here, the Indian government is now under intense pressure to save its national animal, and one adored around the world.

Satinder Bindra, CNN, New Delhi.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: All right, I'm going to do my best wife here. Honey, you really should see somebody all that black hair on your back. Oh, my gosh, that's not -- honey! Indeed not. It was a 200-pound black bear that decided to beat the California heat in an L.A. backyard pool. After the stunned homeowner called 911, offered up some grisly details, state wildlife officials tranquilized the soggy animal, returned him to the wild, but not before a rousing game of Marco Polo with Lisa Clark (ph). And if you'll bear with us a moment...

NGUYEN: Oh, gosh. Have to show it again.

O'BRIEN: There it goes. One more time.

NGUYEN: Boom.

O'BRIEN: A couple years ago in Missoula, Montana, we saw this tape. And every time we see bear story, we think of this. So in a gratuitous fashion, we like to show it over and over again.

NGUYEN: Over and over again.

O'BRIEN: They slipped him a mickey, tried to catch him with the trampoline. As you can see, he had a bad bounce. But he actually was OK. He just had a swollen schnaz (ph), I think. It does remain, by the way, LIVE FROM's favorite...

NGUYEN: Favorite video.

O'BRIEN: ... all-time backyard bear. And probably our favorite all-time video, bar none -- Betty.

NGUYEN: I think we showed that, what, 12 times now? All right. Let's move on.

Now, when it comes to favorite LIVE FROM's elephants, take a look at this. These are pachyderms we picked. Remember when these renegades ran amok in South Korea at a restaurant there last month? Well, the restaurant owner has now remodeled, reopened and renamed the place to cash in on its history. It is now called restaurant where elephants have been. Did you get that?

O'BRIEN: Brilliant, brilliant.

NGUYEN: A lot of thought went into that one. It has a sign featuring a trio of tramplers and offers a special elephant set, which consists of seven vegetables dishes plus a hot soup, Miles. And since reopening, of course, business has doubled -- or tripled, should we say.

O'BRIEN: Yes. And free peanuts sauce, of course. Right? NGUYEN: Always.

O'BRIEN: All right. When you think of Donald Trump, do you think of raging elephants? No. You might think of you're fired...

NGUYEN: Perhaps.

O'BRIEN: Or you may think of his many wives.

NGUYEN: Or, how about education. That's what we're hearing today.

O'BRIEN: No.

NGUYEN: No. Not working? Susan, what's up with that?

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's got his name all over it, and that is the one consistent thing, Betty and Miles. If you want to learn from the real estate mogul, you don't have to be his apprentice. The Donald's latest venture is Trump University. But don't expect ivy-covered walls. Trump University will consist of online courses, CD-roms, consulting services and learning annex-type seminars. Subjects include, what else? Real estate, as well as other subjects like marketing. The for-profit university will not offer degrees, however, and courses are priced at $300 a piece.

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

O'BRIEN: All right. Signing up for Trump University right now. Need an advanced degree.

NGUYEN: Right now. All right, thank you, Susan.

Coming up on our second hour of LIVE FROM, time to put your money under the mattress. That's right. Because New Jersey bank employees -- they're accused of hocking customers' personal information.

O'BRIEN: Some financial advice on covering your assets and your virtual self. LIVE FROM's "Hour of Power" begins after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Data deception. A scheme to steal information on half a million bank customers uncovered. So, what can you do to protect yourself?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And as I continued looking down, there was what I believed to be a small hand and a small foot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NGUYEN: Dumpster discovery. Police show us how they found an abducted 8-year-old buried alive. O'BRIEN: Defending America from below. CNN takes you on patrol with the divers securing ports from terror attacks.

NGUYEN: What movies deserve to be on the all-time best list? You can compare your own list to the new ones that are out this week.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired May 23, 2005 - 13:30   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BETTY NGUYEN: Here's a live look at a press conference underway right now in Idaho on those two missing children. Let's take a listen.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

CAPT. BEN WOLFINGER, KOOTENAI CO. SHERIFF'S DEPT: .. to the call center. That's a great thing. Those -- some of those are great tips. you know, I think I saw the children, that type tips. Some are a little lower priority, but they're all getting followed up on. Those are moving along real well.

This afternoon at 3:00, the sheriff and the special agent in charge from the FBI would like to have a press conference here at the fairgrounds, and I believe the topic will be the reward. So that's all I have right now. I'm happy to take any questions.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

WOLFINGER: Yes. The -- understand, though, the lie detector, or polygraph, measures physiological response to an emotional state. And I confirmed that with the polygrapher today, because I am no polygrapher. But Steve Groene is obviously very distraught and he's very upset. Lie detectors are not foolproof. We know that. Otherwise, the courts would accept them whole-heartedly. They're an investigative tool. And there is no evidence linking Steve Groene to this crime to make him a suspect or a person of interest.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE). Do you know anything about that?

WOLFINGER: I don't know anything about that. I hadn't heard that.

QUESTION: Then were reports over the weekend that the younger children were inside of the residence when the homicides happened. Can you touch on that? And also if you guys believe that the victims knew the killer?

WOLFINGER; Sure. We've never denied the fact that we believe the children were in the residence when this incidence occurred. We just -- it never had been asked before. So that wasn't a great revelation to us. We always believed that, that the children were there. As far as known to the family, that statement came from the lead investigator, Detective Maskell (ph). And that was based on the fact that there was no obvious signs of forced entry, that the people had been in -- the suspect or suspects had been invited into the residence. That's where that came from -- John.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

WOLFINGER: I don't know. That information hasn't been shared with me at this point.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

WOLFINGER: Well, our animal control came out and was able to take the animals into custody safely, all but one. And we actually had to humanely trap it later, on a food bait trap. And the animals are all being sheltered at this point. So I don't believe they had any trouble getting into the home because of the dogs.

NGUYEN: You've been listening to Captain Ben Wolfinger in Coeur D'Alene, Idaho in the case of the two missing children, whose mother was found a week ago dead in the home along with their brother and their mother's boyfriend. The captain was just telling us that Steve Groene, the children's father, although reports have come out that he failed a polygraph test by the FBI, that he is not related to this crime, as the investigation is underway.

Of course, 3:00 this afternoon, he mentioned there will be a press conference by the FBI to talk about a reward in this case. So you want to stay tuned for that -- Miles.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, let's talk about politics now. Howard Dean, the Dean N.C., he didn't pull any verbal punches in his first nationally televised interview since being elected to that post of chairman of the DNC. On Sunday's "Meet the Press," Dean knocked Tom DeLay, Rush Limbaugh and the president specifically and the GOP in general. Is Howard Dean, indeed, the voice of the party? Should he be?

Let's kick this one around a little bit with Bill Press and Martha Zoller, both radio talk show hosts. And get this, folks, they have political points of view. So we bring them in.

BILL PRESS, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Hi, Miles.

O'BRIEN: Martha's here in Atlanta.

MARTHA ZOLLER, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Hi, there.

O'BRIEN: Bill's in Washington. Good to have you both with us.

PRESS: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Martha Zoller, since you're here, ladies first, all that stuff, Howard Dean, you know -- when Howard Dean was elected chairman of the DNC, nobody expected it to be boring. Right? This is good for us. We know that in the media, because he's good copy.

ZOLLER: It's good for me, too.

O'BRIEN: Is he actually better for Republicans than Democrats potentially?

ZOLLER: Well, I think that Howard Dean is a guy who says what he thinks and he doesn't think much about what he says before he says it. And to say on the one hand...

O'BRIEN: We love these people in the media.

ZOLLER: We do love that.

O'BRIEN: We do.

ZOLLER: On the one hands, with Tom DeLay, who certainly has ethics issue -- I'll admit that as a conservative. But he hasn't been charged with anything, he hasn't been sent to prison yet. He says that --, you know, he should go to prison, but you all know, Osama bin Laden, two years ago, he's says, well, we should give him the benefit of doubt.

O'BRIEN: All right. Let's put up a full screen, some of the statements that were made by Tom DeLay and we'll walk you through. And Bill, I want you to look at this and read along with me at home with me, viewers, and tell me where the line is.

"This gentleman is not an ethical person. He ought not to be leading Congress, period." Is the line there?

ZOLLER: No. I think that's OK.

O'BRIEN: Bill, line there?

PRESS: No.

O'BRIEN: OK. "I don't think it's appropriate for Tom Delay to be in Congress." Line?

ZOLLER: That's fine.

O'BRIEN: Bill Press, line?

ZOLLER: Absolutely correct.

O'BRIEN: OK, final one. "I think there's a reasonable chance that this, and he, might end up in jail." Cross the line?

ZOLLER: I think that crosses the line.

O'BRIEN: Bill Press?

PRESS: I wouldn't go that far.

O'BRIEN: Yes?

ZOLLER: Oh, no, we're agreeing.

PRESS: No, no, no, let me finish.

O'BRIEN: That's not the way it's supposed to be.

PRESS: It's not that big a stretch, given that three of his top aides have been indicted in a case in Florida in which Tom DeLay is involved.

O'BRIEN: Wait. No, wait a minute, Bill. ...

PRESS: But I think we ought to wait for the indictment before we send him to jail.

O'BRIEN: Howard Dean, when he was running for president, said you know, Osama bin Laden is innocent until proven guilty.

PRESS: You know, I'm not going to agree with everything that Howard Dean says...

O'BRIEN: (INAUDIBLE)?

PRESS: I'm not going to agree with anything that Howard Dean says, but let me tell you this. I think that Dr. Dean is just what the doctor ordered for the Democratic party.

O'BRIEN: Really?

PRESS: Because for years they've been afraid of their own shadow, ever since 9/11, and now they've got somebody who's going to stand up and fight back and speak out, and, yes, sometimes he'll make a mistake, but it's better than that robot heading the Republican National Committee.

O'BRIEN: All right, but here's the difference. Yes, here's the difference. And that's a good point, because Howard Dean speaks. He's got that loose cannon kind of appeal, he says all kinds of wild things. And among Democrats, there's this kind of a deafening silence. The Republicans have tremendous discipline with their talking points. They're all like robots, they all say the same thing over and over again. The Democrats don't have that figured out yet, do they?

ZOLLER: Well, and I agree with you. And I think he is the person that's supposed to deliver the message. And I think if he's going to deliver the message, what bothers me -- or makes me happy, depending on -- you know, if I'm on the air or not, is that when he delivers that message it's inconsistent. Really to say the president -- to say the president's Social Security plan is like Enron. Privatization is like Enron. There is nothing to say on that and he didn't offer an alternative. Democrats need to come to the table. That's what people are upset about.

O'BRIEN: All right, well, now, wait a minute now.

PRESS: There go the talking points, Miles.

O'BRIEN: You're not going to hold...

ZOLLER: There's no talking point. O'BRIEN: I think I just heard a -- Bill, let's talk about that, Because it seems like Martha is holding him accountable for his political rhetoric, and that's very unusual in America, to be held accountable for what you say in a political statement.

ZOLLER: No. Enron was the talking point, and it was a Democratic talking point.

O'BRIEN: All right, go ahead, Bill.

PRESS: My turn, Martha. Two quick points. Number one, if we're talking about holding people accountable, Dr. Dean doesn't even make the list. I mean, I remember the president called somebody a major league body part. Dick Cheney said a senator should commit an unnatural act. Rick Santorum last week compared Democrats to Hitler. So I mean, let's get...

ZOLLER: But they apologized and took responsibility.

O'BRIEN: All right, but you know...

PRESS: In context. But secondly, second quick point, the role of a party chairman, and I used to be a party chairman before I came here to CNN for "CROSSFIRE," is to stir up the troops. It's not be Mr. Nice guy. It's to get out there get people excited...

ZOLLER: And to raise money, which he is not doing.

PRESS: ... get people energized. And he's good at that.

O'BRIEN: All right, but the money raising thing we'll talk about in a minute. Bill, that -- money-raising is obviously very important, but to the extent that a guy like Dean plays into the hands of Republicans. Are there some Democrats that are a little concerned about the rhetoric? Would they rather see him move the party toward the center?

PRESS: There are some Democrats, yes, who would rather see him move the party to the center. I think they are wrong. I think hiding under a bushel for the last three years has cost Democrats. It's time to stand up and fight. They need a fighter like Howard Dean.

ZOLLER: But the fact of the matter is, is the country is more center right. It's certainly not far right. And if you're far left to start off with, you've got a lot further to go to become mainstream than Republicans do on the far right to become mainstream.

PRESS: Yes, but just because Howard Dean slipped maybe and said that Tom DeLay belongs in jail, that doesn't mean he's on the extreme...

ZOLLER: But it's not the first time, Bill.

PRESS: That doesn't mean he's on the extreme left.

O'BRIEN: Howard Dean did a great job raising money as a presidential candidate. Is he having trouble as a DNC chairman?

ZOLLER: Well, he had a great job raising money and then went $8 million in the hole. He owed $8 million when it was all done.

O'BRIEN: That was a grassroots Internet campaign.

ZOLLER: And didn't win a single primary, though, until he got to Vermont.

O'BRIEN: But, no no. You just said money raising, though. He's good at raising money.

ZOLLER: Not so far. The first quarter, the Democrats have raised half of what the Republicans have.

O'BRIEN: Bill, what's going on with that? Why?

PRESS: Miles, he's only been there three months. Look, Howard Dean totally...

ZOLLER: It's the same three months. Ken Mehlman's only been there three months.

PRESS: Please, please, please. One at a time. Howard Dean totally changed American politics. American politics will never be the same because Howard Dean showed you could use the Internet to raise millions and millions of dollars and millions of volunteers. He's going to do that for the Democratic Party. Just watch.

O'BRIEN: All right. We've got to the leave it there.

ZOLLER: We will. We'll leave it there.

O'BRIEN: Bill Press, Martha Zoller -- they have political opinions.

ZOLLER: Yes, we do.

O'BRIEN: Which is why you frequently see them here on CNN. Bill Press, good to see you especially. Always good to see you, Martha, but, Bill, haven't seen him in a while.

ZOLLER: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Back with more in a moment.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Lawrence Douglas Wilder has earned a reputation exploring uncharted territory, politically as well as racially. He graduated from the private all-black Virginia Union University, after being turned away from all-white schools in his native Virginia.

Doug Wilder went on to become a celebrated criminal lawyer, state senator, lieutenant governor, and in 1990, the first black governor ever elected in the U.S.

DOUGLAS WILDER, FORMER VIRGINIA GOVERNOR: The people of Virginia have spoken tonight!

CORRESPONDENT: To demonstrate distaste for his state's history of slavery, Wilder chose to take his oath of office outside Virginia's capitol, a building that had served as the Confederate capitol during the Civil War.

Now, at 74, he's beginning a new phase of public service. Last November, following a historic change in the city charter, he became the first mayor elected by the people, rather than the council in his hometown, Richmond.

WILDER: What is it that we are to do, and who are you there for? You're there to represent the people.

CORRESPONDENT: Today, Mayor Doug Wilder is a common sight on the streets of Richmond and Virginia Commonwealth University, where he teaches political science.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: Heads up, tennis fans! Put down those rackets and head to our Web site, because Christina Park at the dot.com desk has details on the French Open.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTINA PARK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lots of excitement at this year's French Open. And si.com/tennis is serving you all the highlights online, starting with the number-one seed, 23-year-old wonder, Roger Federer. This powerhouse has reason to believe he can master the thick red clay at Roland Garros. Federer just won a clay tournament in Hamburg, and with a win and the French, could join Andre Agassi as the only active men's player to win all four major titles.

Completing a career Grand Slam is the pinnacle in the tennis world. Talent and versatility are key to winning on grass, hard courts and clay, each requiring a different mix of power, speed, finesse and creativity. Only five men have accomplished this feat.

Now, the women's tournament is just as exciting, and the nearly $6 million prize is up for grabs this year. 2002 French Open champ Serena Williams pulled out Friday due to problems stemming from a left ankle sprain six weeks ago. Many experts favor 10-seed Justine Henin- Hardenne, the 2003 French champion.

At si.com, you'll also get the complete first-round draw, seedings, plus a history of all-time champions and highlights from previous Grand Slams. Si.com/tennis is your online sports headquarters for the 2005 French open.

Reporting from the dot-com desk, I'm Christina Park. Bonchamp. (END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: And now a story that animal lovers will find difficult to watch and that residents of India are calling a national shame. CNN'S Satinder Bindra on a scandal at a prestigious national park that comes even as the world's tiger population is rapidly dwindling.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SATINDER BINDRA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Feast your eyes. This is a rare sight in a country where rampant poaching is endangering the very survival of the royal Bengal tiger. The government says 114 tigers have been killed in India in the past five years. Conservation groups say it's many more.

For poachers, each dead tiger is worth about $140,000. Tiger skins fetch $20,000 each. And the animal's bones and body parts are in great demand for making traditional Chinese medicine.

BELINDA WRIGHT, CONSERVATIONIST: What we're up against is organized wildlife crime. And, you know, we have not been able to get that message across to the government.

BINDRA: An estimated 60 percent of the world's tigers are found in India. Thirty years ago, New Delhi won international praise for launching a well administered preservation program call "Project Tiger." But a mixture of complacency, loss of habitat and poaching has led to a shrinking population.

International experts believe the official figure of 3 1/2 thousand tigers in India is wildly exaggerated.

(on camera): Recently, the Indian prime minister's office was embarrassed when it was revealed all tigers living in a prestigious national park had been killed. The official census though still showed several tigers still living there.

(voice-over): In the aftermath of the scandal, India's prime minister set up a special task force to save the tiger. Also underway is a tiger census. Conservationist Belinda Wright shows us the latest methods being used to more accurately gauge the tiger population.

WRIGHT: They're extremely endangered as a species. Their last chance of survival is here in India.

BINDRA: With plenty of food still available for tigers here, the Indian government is now under intense pressure to save its national animal, and one adored around the world.

Satinder Bindra, CNN, New Delhi.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: All right, I'm going to do my best wife here. Honey, you really should see somebody all that black hair on your back. Oh, my gosh, that's not -- honey! Indeed not. It was a 200-pound black bear that decided to beat the California heat in an L.A. backyard pool. After the stunned homeowner called 911, offered up some grisly details, state wildlife officials tranquilized the soggy animal, returned him to the wild, but not before a rousing game of Marco Polo with Lisa Clark (ph). And if you'll bear with us a moment...

NGUYEN: Oh, gosh. Have to show it again.

O'BRIEN: There it goes. One more time.

NGUYEN: Boom.

O'BRIEN: A couple years ago in Missoula, Montana, we saw this tape. And every time we see bear story, we think of this. So in a gratuitous fashion, we like to show it over and over again.

NGUYEN: Over and over again.

O'BRIEN: They slipped him a mickey, tried to catch him with the trampoline. As you can see, he had a bad bounce. But he actually was OK. He just had a swollen schnaz (ph), I think. It does remain, by the way, LIVE FROM's favorite...

NGUYEN: Favorite video.

O'BRIEN: ... all-time backyard bear. And probably our favorite all-time video, bar none -- Betty.

NGUYEN: I think we showed that, what, 12 times now? All right. Let's move on.

Now, when it comes to favorite LIVE FROM's elephants, take a look at this. These are pachyderms we picked. Remember when these renegades ran amok in South Korea at a restaurant there last month? Well, the restaurant owner has now remodeled, reopened and renamed the place to cash in on its history. It is now called restaurant where elephants have been. Did you get that?

O'BRIEN: Brilliant, brilliant.

NGUYEN: A lot of thought went into that one. It has a sign featuring a trio of tramplers and offers a special elephant set, which consists of seven vegetables dishes plus a hot soup, Miles. And since reopening, of course, business has doubled -- or tripled, should we say.

O'BRIEN: Yes. And free peanuts sauce, of course. Right? NGUYEN: Always.

O'BRIEN: All right. When you think of Donald Trump, do you think of raging elephants? No. You might think of you're fired...

NGUYEN: Perhaps.

O'BRIEN: Or you may think of his many wives.

NGUYEN: Or, how about education. That's what we're hearing today.

O'BRIEN: No.

NGUYEN: No. Not working? Susan, what's up with that?

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's got his name all over it, and that is the one consistent thing, Betty and Miles. If you want to learn from the real estate mogul, you don't have to be his apprentice. The Donald's latest venture is Trump University. But don't expect ivy-covered walls. Trump University will consist of online courses, CD-roms, consulting services and learning annex-type seminars. Subjects include, what else? Real estate, as well as other subjects like marketing. The for-profit university will not offer degrees, however, and courses are priced at $300 a piece.

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

O'BRIEN: All right. Signing up for Trump University right now. Need an advanced degree.

NGUYEN: Right now. All right, thank you, Susan.

Coming up on our second hour of LIVE FROM, time to put your money under the mattress. That's right. Because New Jersey bank employees -- they're accused of hocking customers' personal information.

O'BRIEN: Some financial advice on covering your assets and your virtual self. LIVE FROM's "Hour of Power" begins after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Data deception. A scheme to steal information on half a million bank customers uncovered. So, what can you do to protect yourself?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And as I continued looking down, there was what I believed to be a small hand and a small foot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NGUYEN: Dumpster discovery. Police show us how they found an abducted 8-year-old buried alive. O'BRIEN: Defending America from below. CNN takes you on patrol with the divers securing ports from terror attacks.

NGUYEN: What movies deserve to be on the all-time best list? You can compare your own list to the new ones that are out this week.

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