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Video Released of Saddam Being Questioned; Pentagon Defends Gitmo Interrogation Techniques; Michael Jackson Jury Asks for More Read Backs
Aired June 13, 2005 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, HOST: Dictator grilled. New video of Saddam Hussein being questioned about alleged massacres. We're live from Baghdad.
Did interrogators at Guantanamo go too far? New details about questioning a detainee.
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Ted Rowlands, outside the courthouse in Santa Maria, California. Jurors in the Michael Jackson case are asking for more read backs. We'll have the very latest coming up.
And medical mistakes. One family's nightmare after an error took a mother's life.
From Atlanta, I'm Miles O'Brien. Kyra Phillips off today. CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.
We begin with a legal grilling in Iraq. It's been awhile since the world has seen new video of former Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein. It was his court appearance last summer. And who can forget the images of an unkempt Hussein after the capture in 2003?
Today, he's front and center in another videotape. CNN's Jennifer Eccleston live from Baghdad with details -- Jennifer.
JENNIFER ECCLESTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Miles. An Iraqi judge has questioned former president, Saddam Hussein, about the killing of dozens of men from a Shiite village where he survived an assassination attempt in 1982.
Now, Iraq's special tribunal released film of Saddam Hussein being questioned by an investigative judge of the tribunal who said that the interviewing process is ongoing. He also said that Saddam's chief lawyer was with him.
Now, this follows a string of Iraqi officials making statements that in an effort to expedite Saddam Hussein's prosecution. The former dictator will stand trial in connection with upwards of 12 of the best documented crimes committed by the former president.
Now, a spokesperson for the prime minister and the transitional prime minister, Ibrahim Jafari, said there's no time to waste in preparing for that trial. He also said that the government was confident that the proceedings could begin within two months. Now, Iraq's special tribunal, which is independent of the government, stressing that independence, after that statement from the prime minister was made, said there is no time frame for the beginning of that trial.
Now, just a little bit backgrounder here. By whittling down the charges to 12, perhaps 14, the spokesman for the transitional prime minister said it would help ensure that the former president receives the death sentence, which is available in Iraq's criminal code and which is drafted under the rule of Saddam Hussein.
And as you mentioned earlier, we all recall last July when he was arraigned in Baghdad on several broad counts. Those included the assassination of political opponents, the 1988 gassing of Kurds in Halabja, the invasion of Kuwait, obviously, in 1990, and also, the suppression of the Kurdish and Shiite uprisings that occurred just after the war in 1991 -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Jennifer, how important is it for Iraqis to get this trial underway sooner, rather than later? They've got a lot of other issues to contend with, don't they?
ECCLESTON: Absolutely. With the growing insurgency here, these day-to-day life in Iraq is -- is far less than what they hoped it would be: very dangerous, very stressful.
But putting that into context, whenever they see president -- former president, Saddam Hussein, on television, people stop. They have to listen to this. They have to see it. And that's because he's still -- by and large people still are terrified of the man and, despite the fact that he is in prison, that he'll be tried, there is an emotional leap that has to be made. And I think that leap will come when he's actually on trial and they know that he will no longer be able to negatively affect their lives.
So it is very important, not only to see the video today showing that that special tribunal is working; it is in action; it is following up on interviews and that it will one way come to fruition and he will actually seek justice or he will get justice when that trial actually comes down -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Jennifer Eccleston in Baghdad, thank you very much.
Here in this country, it's becoming a major battle in the war on terror: the fate of 540 men under lock and key at the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. A new article about efforts to get one of them to talk is prompting new calls to close the camp. But lawmakers disagree on how effective that would be.
CNN's senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre joining us now with reaction from the military -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Miles, this article from "TIME" magazine, out this weekend, gives a rare insight into exactly how U.S. interrogators were trying to get information from the man they believe to be possibly the so-called 20th hijacker, Mohammed al-Kahtani, a follower of Osama bin Laden who is under interrogation at the U.S. detention facility in Guantanamo.
The -- the logs that interrogators kept, a minute by minute account in some cases of what Kahtani was doing, included references to strong and coercive methods of interrogation that were used as interrogators were more intent on getting information from him, including things like standing for long periods of time, isolation, shaving of his facial hair, playing on individual phobias such as dogs.
Now, there's no evidence here that he was abused by a dog. But one of the entries from the log is interesting. It shows how they used psychological tactics. And this one says that the detainee told a dog was held in higher esteem than he was, because dogs, quote, "know right from wrong in order to protect innocent people from bad people." They -- it says that they began teaching the detainee lessons such as "stay," "come" and to bark to elevate his social status to that of a dog.
Again, these are techniques they were using to try to shame this detainee into talking, telling him that it was his duty to God to reveal the plot.
Now, these revelations, again, have prompted more calls for Guantanamo to close and more concerns from members of Congress, who believe the perception of abuse, even if it didn't happen, the perception is enough to cause concern when U.S. troops might be themselves taken prisoner.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. CHARLIE RANGEL (D), NEW YORK: I have never been embarrassed for my country in talking with any foreigners, but the things that are happening within those walls should be opened up, not just for the Red Cross or international organizations, but for Americans.
And as a former combat soldier in Korea, I just want you to know that there's no question in my mind that every American that's fighting is worried to death how they're going to be treated because of the way the enemy believes that we're treating their prisoners.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: Now, the Pentagon strongly asserts that these techniques, while may have gone up to the line, didn't cross the line into abuse and torture. A statement saying, "The Department of Defense remains committed to the unequivocal standard of humane treatment for all detainees, and Kahtani's interrogation plan was guided by that strict standard."
The statement goes on to say, "The very fact that an interrogation log exists is evidence his interrogation proceeded according to a very detailed plan and was conducted by trained professionals in a controlled environment, with active supervision and oversight."
And despite all the calls for closing Guantanamo, the Pentagon continues to say it has no good options for handling these people, who it believes could pose a problem to the United States, other than holding them at Guantanamo. It, in some cases can't send them back to the countries they came from. There's no third country to send them to. And bringing them to the United States, it insists, would give them rights and ability to thwart interrogation that they don't have to Guantanamo.
So as of now, the Pentagon say there are no active plans to close Guantanamo or transfer those prisoners someplace else -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Jamie, how specific are the rules on this, and were there specific rules that were at all violated, based on your read of these logs?
MCINTYRE: Well, the rules have very specific. In fact, they were -- back when they were having trouble getting information out of Kahtani, the interrogators asked for basically some expanded capabilities: things, again, more depravation, more stress positions. And 16 of those were approved by Defense Secretary Rumsfeld for a short period of time.
They were later rescinded after some people complained that maybe they were too close to the line, but the Pentagon insists those procedures were followed and properly applied; do not amount to abuse or torture.
O'BRIEN: All right. Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon, thank you very much.
Did interrogators at Guantanamo Bay go too far in their questioning of, as he was called, detainee 063? Or did they just use standard techniques? Coming up next hour, I'll talk about it with our military analyst, Major General Don Shepherd.
An update now on a story CNN brought to you this morning. The New York Police Department earlier had said firefighters stumbled on a Middle Eastern man who possessed various subway maps. The fire department described him as being part of a group of men acting suspiciously.
Now, police are telling us he, in fact, had no such maps and has no link to terrorism. The source calling the whole incident innocuous.
CNN, committed the providing the most reliable coverage of news that affects your security. Stay tuned to CNN for the latest day and night.
Now to Aruba, where the search for Natalee Holloway is hitting the two-week mark now. Efforts are underway to free two of the five men held in connection with her disappearance. Both are security guards who work at a hotel near the one Holloway was staying at when she vanished on May 30.
The teen's mother tells the Associated Press she believes they're innocent, and they should be released. Aruba's government spokesman says that may happen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUBEN TRAPENBERG, ARUBAN GOVERNMENT SPOKESMAN: We don't got the details from the investigation from what we think may be the case, that these three gentlemen are pointing the finger to these two guys. So if they have an alibi, they can substantiate where they've been, they may be released, but that's still ongoing. Today, their lawyer, I have heard, may come with a special appeal so that their case can be considered.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: Young men are also held in connection with this particular case. A senior police source is telling CNN one of them has made some sort of confession, but other Aruban officials are denying that claim. Stay tuned on that one.
This case illustrates how a vacation can turn into a nightmare, to say the least, but there are steps you can take to stay safe while traveling overseas. Check out the list of tips on our web site: CNN.com/world.
Day seven of the Jackson jury deliberations. Some live pictures now at the courthouse, Santa Maria, California. Big crowd there. We'll take you there for more on what the evidence the jurors are asking for additional information on.
Also ahead, a man accused in the killings that inspired the movie "Mississippi Burning" goes on trial 40 years after the deaths of three civil rights workers.
And will driving prices down get you to drive a Chevy? GM makes moves to put you in the driver's seat.
ANNOUNCER: You're watching LIVE FROM on CNN, the most trusted name in news.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: The jury reconvenes in Santa Maria, California. A panel of eight women and four men arrived a short time ago to continue deliberations in the Michael Jackson child molestation case. They met for more than 28 hours over six days so far. No verdict yet.
CNN's Ted Rowlands waiting it out in Santa Maria, California. These jurors are asking more questions, aren't they, Ted?
ROWLANDS: Yes, Miles, sources close to the case say that jurors have asked for more read backs this morning during the time that they have been deliberating. They started at 8:30 Pacific Time.
On Friday, they asked for read backs from the testimony of the accuser, several portions of testimony, according to sources close to the case. They also asked questions of the judge, and the lawyers met three separate times on Friday. So clearly, there's a lot of movement, but clearly there is still no verdict here as we wait. This is the seventh day of deliberation. There were two partial days mixed in there. The first day they got the case they only met for about two hours and elected a foreperson. And then last week, the judge allowed them to leave early so that some jurors could attend a graduation.
But they have been in this jury room all of the other days, putting in full days from 8:30 a.m. to 2:30 Pacific each day. They are able to go home. They are not sequestered. So they spent the weekend, presumably, with loved ones, and then now they're back at it once again.
Meanwhile, getting word as to where Michael Jackson is, and how he is doing is little bit more difficult now, because the Jackson fired its spokesperson, Raymone Bain. This was the person that the 2,000-plus members of the media would call on an hourly basis to see where Michael was and how is Michael doing. Now, there's really nobody to call and no updates to be had whether or not Jackson is still at Neverland remains -- it is not -- we're not able to confirm it one way or another.
We know, though, that he only has one hour from the time that the jury does make it a decision until the judge wants to have this verdict read and, therefore, Jackson is presumed to be at least in the general area -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Ted, my understanding was that Raymone Bain was very close to Michael Jackson. Any indication, any guess as to why she might have been fired?
ROWLANDS: There was a small note on the web site Friday, saying that she was being let go, and they thanked her for her service. One source close to the case said it was, quote, "politics." What that means, who knows?
But clearly, there is some infighting there. Tom Mesereau issued a statement last week, saying that no one had been cleared to talk on Jackson's behalf. There was some discussions of who, if anybody, should be talking for the Jacksons. Jesse Jackson was out here giving daily updates. There's no sign of him, either, here today.
So what happened, we don't know. The bottom line is no updates as to Michael Jackson.
O'BRIEN: So, possibly, Mesereau putting a little discipline into the whole camp and silencing people. All right. Ted Rowlands, thank you very much. Keep us posted. Appreciate it.
The killings happened more than 40 years ago, and the defendant is now a frail octogenarian. Jury selection is underway in the "Mississippi Burning" trial of Edgar Ray Killen, who is charged with the murder in the 1964 deaths of three young, civil rights workers.
CNN's Ed Lavandera is in Philadelphia, Mississippi, where there are strong feelings on both sides of an infamous case -- Ed. ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, Miles.
Well, just a short while ago when Edgar Ray Killen arrived here at the courthouse in Philadelphia, Mississippi, he was greeted at his car by a man who identified himself with the Ku Klux Klan.
A little bit later on, when we asked Killen's attorney about that relationship, he said it's a bald-faced lie to suggest the man was with the Klan. However, the man had handed a reporter there in the group his business card, and it had the Klan logo all over it.
That kind of sets the scene here in Philadelphia, Mississippi, for what will be going on here for the next two weeks.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LAVANDERA (voice-over): It's a chapter of the civil rights struggle that remains incomplete and still haunts Philadelphia, Mississippi.
It was the 1964 Summer of Freedom. Idealistic young people from around the country had come to the South to register black voters. At the center of command among those Freedom Riders, as they were called, were three young men: two white, Andrew Goodman, Michael Schwerner, and one black, James Chaney.
It was June 21. The three men were heading down the Mississippi back roads to investigate a recently torched church. The FBI says after beating several church members, Ku Klux Klan members set fire to the church, leaving it a charred ruin.
But before they reached the church, the group was pulled off the road by local police, arrested for speeding, they were tossed into the Neshoba County Jail. Prosecutors say while the three sat in jail, a gang of about 20 Klan members put a plan in motion to kill them. Accused of leading the effort, part time Baptist preacher Edgar Ray Killen.
Some hours later, the three young civil rights workers were released from jail and drove away in their station wagon. Right behind them were two carloads of Klan members.
After a long chase, the mob forced them off the road. Taken from the cars, the three were killed, shot dead at close range: Schwerner, then Goodman, then Chaney. A bulldozer was brought in to bury them. The bodies disappeared.
The state of Mississippi never charged any of the culprits with murder. There was no federal murder charge then, so instead, the men were brought up on civil rights violations with only seven serving minimal prison sentences.
The man considered to be one of the key instigators, Edgar Ray Killen, walked free, an 11-1 hung jury verdict. Although the jury was all white, there was only one holdout who said at the time she could never convict a preacher. Killen left the courtroom that day a free man, but for more than 30 years groups of civil rights activists, politicians and journalists refused to accept that ruling as the last word. Killen's murder case is the latest in a series of civil rights cases that have been rekindled, looking to right the wrongs of the past.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LAVANDERA: Now, Edgar Ray Killen is now 80 years old. He says he's innocent, and his attorney told us a little while ago that the day of the murders and the night of the murders, Edgar Ray Killen was at a funeral. Prosecutors wouldn't comment on that allegation. They say that they, however, will present testimony in this case that will be enough to prove his involvement in instigating this plan to kill the three civil rights workers -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Ed, Killen looks pretty frail. How is his health?
LAVANDERA: Well, his attorney says that he's really not capable of handling this kind of trial. At one point, he alluded also to questions of his mental capacity to handle this -- this case. In March, he was -- a tree collapsed on him as he was chopping it down and broke both of his legs.
There are -- a lot of considerations are being put in place during this trial because of his health. In fact, the court will take a break every two hours to allow Mr. Killen to get up and go to a room where he might be able to get physical therapy or to stretch out or do whatever he might need to, to feel comfortable. So the court here going to great lengths to make sure that Mr. Killen will be comfortable as his murder trial continues.
O'BRIEN: Ed Lavandera in Philadelphia, Mississippi, thank you very much.
Live pictures coming in to us right now from the National Press Club in Washington. The vice president of the United States, Dick Cheney there, fielding some questions about Guantanamo. Let's listen.
DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: ... like we've ever known before. But as a by-product, if you will, of that activity, we have from time to time captured individuals who were part of the al Qaeda organization or the Taliban in Afghanistan, who were doing their level best to launch attacks to kill Americans, either on the battlefield or here in the United States. And, many of them now are housed down at Guantanamo.
Given the nature of the conflict that we're involved in, there would need to be some kind of a facility that would allow you to detain people who are enemy combatants, in effect, who, if you put them back on the street, will do their level best to return back to the battlefield or to complete their original mission of trying to kill Americans.
And, what we have at Guantanamo is a facility where we hold today some 540, 545 individuals who are believed to be enemy combatants. There was a process established last year for reviewing the case of every single one of those individuals. And, that review of, I believe, in the last year, roughly 558 folks held at Guantanamo deemed 520 of them to be enemy combatants, based on information that was available with respect to how they were arrested or information that they'd provided and so forth or that others had provided.
Out of 558, that left 38 who have been deemed no longer required to be held at Guantanamo. Five of them have been released, and state is working on arrangements to turn the other 33 others back to their host countries.
Over the course of the conflict, since we began using Guantanamo, over 200 people that were held there have subsequently been released or returned to their home countries.
So there has been a process in place for reviewing and screening the individuals held and making judgments with respect to those that we believe no longer have intelligence value or no longer constitute a threat to the United States.
Of those who have been released, at least 10 have gotten back into the battle on the other side and were subsequently captured or encountered in the ongoing conflict. I've got a list here of six of them. I won't read them all to you, but let me give you just a flavor for a couple of these.
A man named Mulabi Abdul Qafar (ph) was captured in early 2002, released after he'd been held for eight months. After returning to Afghanistan, he became the Taliban's regional commander in Helman (ph) Province, carrying out attacks on U.S. Afghan forces. On September 25, 2004, while planning -- planning an attack against Afghan police, Qafar (ph) and two of his men were killed in a raid by Afghan forces.
O'BRIEN: We have been listening to the vice president of the United States, Dick Cheney. He's at the National Press Club taking some questions about Guantanamo. Lots of calls, both sides of the aisles, to shut down that facility on the island of Cuba. The vice president, of course, defending Guantanamo and it role in the war on terror and holding so-called enemy combatants.
Back with more LIVE FROM in just a moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN (voice-over): Next on LIVE FROM...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was asked to bark like a dog. A female interrogator violated his personal space to the point where he threatened to commit suicide.
O'BRIEN: Did interrogators go too far with prisoners at Guantanamo Bay? A new report raises questions.
Also ahead, should Gitmo be closed? Members of both parties increasingly critical of the prison. We'll go in depth.
Also, later on LIVE FROM, medical mistakes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thirty seconds or less to write down what's toxic, what is not.
O'BRIEN: They kill thousands of people. The story of one family's heart breaking loss.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Well, if you're looking to buy a new car, you could get a break from GM. Susan Lisovicz with that story on the New York Stock Exchange.
Susan, putting a little bit of lipstick on a few road hogs here, huh?
(STOCK REPORT)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired June 13, 2005 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, HOST: Dictator grilled. New video of Saddam Hussein being questioned about alleged massacres. We're live from Baghdad.
Did interrogators at Guantanamo go too far? New details about questioning a detainee.
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Ted Rowlands, outside the courthouse in Santa Maria, California. Jurors in the Michael Jackson case are asking for more read backs. We'll have the very latest coming up.
And medical mistakes. One family's nightmare after an error took a mother's life.
From Atlanta, I'm Miles O'Brien. Kyra Phillips off today. CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.
We begin with a legal grilling in Iraq. It's been awhile since the world has seen new video of former Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein. It was his court appearance last summer. And who can forget the images of an unkempt Hussein after the capture in 2003?
Today, he's front and center in another videotape. CNN's Jennifer Eccleston live from Baghdad with details -- Jennifer.
JENNIFER ECCLESTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Miles. An Iraqi judge has questioned former president, Saddam Hussein, about the killing of dozens of men from a Shiite village where he survived an assassination attempt in 1982.
Now, Iraq's special tribunal released film of Saddam Hussein being questioned by an investigative judge of the tribunal who said that the interviewing process is ongoing. He also said that Saddam's chief lawyer was with him.
Now, this follows a string of Iraqi officials making statements that in an effort to expedite Saddam Hussein's prosecution. The former dictator will stand trial in connection with upwards of 12 of the best documented crimes committed by the former president.
Now, a spokesperson for the prime minister and the transitional prime minister, Ibrahim Jafari, said there's no time to waste in preparing for that trial. He also said that the government was confident that the proceedings could begin within two months. Now, Iraq's special tribunal, which is independent of the government, stressing that independence, after that statement from the prime minister was made, said there is no time frame for the beginning of that trial.
Now, just a little bit backgrounder here. By whittling down the charges to 12, perhaps 14, the spokesman for the transitional prime minister said it would help ensure that the former president receives the death sentence, which is available in Iraq's criminal code and which is drafted under the rule of Saddam Hussein.
And as you mentioned earlier, we all recall last July when he was arraigned in Baghdad on several broad counts. Those included the assassination of political opponents, the 1988 gassing of Kurds in Halabja, the invasion of Kuwait, obviously, in 1990, and also, the suppression of the Kurdish and Shiite uprisings that occurred just after the war in 1991 -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Jennifer, how important is it for Iraqis to get this trial underway sooner, rather than later? They've got a lot of other issues to contend with, don't they?
ECCLESTON: Absolutely. With the growing insurgency here, these day-to-day life in Iraq is -- is far less than what they hoped it would be: very dangerous, very stressful.
But putting that into context, whenever they see president -- former president, Saddam Hussein, on television, people stop. They have to listen to this. They have to see it. And that's because he's still -- by and large people still are terrified of the man and, despite the fact that he is in prison, that he'll be tried, there is an emotional leap that has to be made. And I think that leap will come when he's actually on trial and they know that he will no longer be able to negatively affect their lives.
So it is very important, not only to see the video today showing that that special tribunal is working; it is in action; it is following up on interviews and that it will one way come to fruition and he will actually seek justice or he will get justice when that trial actually comes down -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Jennifer Eccleston in Baghdad, thank you very much.
Here in this country, it's becoming a major battle in the war on terror: the fate of 540 men under lock and key at the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. A new article about efforts to get one of them to talk is prompting new calls to close the camp. But lawmakers disagree on how effective that would be.
CNN's senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre joining us now with reaction from the military -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Miles, this article from "TIME" magazine, out this weekend, gives a rare insight into exactly how U.S. interrogators were trying to get information from the man they believe to be possibly the so-called 20th hijacker, Mohammed al-Kahtani, a follower of Osama bin Laden who is under interrogation at the U.S. detention facility in Guantanamo.
The -- the logs that interrogators kept, a minute by minute account in some cases of what Kahtani was doing, included references to strong and coercive methods of interrogation that were used as interrogators were more intent on getting information from him, including things like standing for long periods of time, isolation, shaving of his facial hair, playing on individual phobias such as dogs.
Now, there's no evidence here that he was abused by a dog. But one of the entries from the log is interesting. It shows how they used psychological tactics. And this one says that the detainee told a dog was held in higher esteem than he was, because dogs, quote, "know right from wrong in order to protect innocent people from bad people." They -- it says that they began teaching the detainee lessons such as "stay," "come" and to bark to elevate his social status to that of a dog.
Again, these are techniques they were using to try to shame this detainee into talking, telling him that it was his duty to God to reveal the plot.
Now, these revelations, again, have prompted more calls for Guantanamo to close and more concerns from members of Congress, who believe the perception of abuse, even if it didn't happen, the perception is enough to cause concern when U.S. troops might be themselves taken prisoner.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. CHARLIE RANGEL (D), NEW YORK: I have never been embarrassed for my country in talking with any foreigners, but the things that are happening within those walls should be opened up, not just for the Red Cross or international organizations, but for Americans.
And as a former combat soldier in Korea, I just want you to know that there's no question in my mind that every American that's fighting is worried to death how they're going to be treated because of the way the enemy believes that we're treating their prisoners.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: Now, the Pentagon strongly asserts that these techniques, while may have gone up to the line, didn't cross the line into abuse and torture. A statement saying, "The Department of Defense remains committed to the unequivocal standard of humane treatment for all detainees, and Kahtani's interrogation plan was guided by that strict standard."
The statement goes on to say, "The very fact that an interrogation log exists is evidence his interrogation proceeded according to a very detailed plan and was conducted by trained professionals in a controlled environment, with active supervision and oversight."
And despite all the calls for closing Guantanamo, the Pentagon continues to say it has no good options for handling these people, who it believes could pose a problem to the United States, other than holding them at Guantanamo. It, in some cases can't send them back to the countries they came from. There's no third country to send them to. And bringing them to the United States, it insists, would give them rights and ability to thwart interrogation that they don't have to Guantanamo.
So as of now, the Pentagon say there are no active plans to close Guantanamo or transfer those prisoners someplace else -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Jamie, how specific are the rules on this, and were there specific rules that were at all violated, based on your read of these logs?
MCINTYRE: Well, the rules have very specific. In fact, they were -- back when they were having trouble getting information out of Kahtani, the interrogators asked for basically some expanded capabilities: things, again, more depravation, more stress positions. And 16 of those were approved by Defense Secretary Rumsfeld for a short period of time.
They were later rescinded after some people complained that maybe they were too close to the line, but the Pentagon insists those procedures were followed and properly applied; do not amount to abuse or torture.
O'BRIEN: All right. Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon, thank you very much.
Did interrogators at Guantanamo Bay go too far in their questioning of, as he was called, detainee 063? Or did they just use standard techniques? Coming up next hour, I'll talk about it with our military analyst, Major General Don Shepherd.
An update now on a story CNN brought to you this morning. The New York Police Department earlier had said firefighters stumbled on a Middle Eastern man who possessed various subway maps. The fire department described him as being part of a group of men acting suspiciously.
Now, police are telling us he, in fact, had no such maps and has no link to terrorism. The source calling the whole incident innocuous.
CNN, committed the providing the most reliable coverage of news that affects your security. Stay tuned to CNN for the latest day and night.
Now to Aruba, where the search for Natalee Holloway is hitting the two-week mark now. Efforts are underway to free two of the five men held in connection with her disappearance. Both are security guards who work at a hotel near the one Holloway was staying at when she vanished on May 30.
The teen's mother tells the Associated Press she believes they're innocent, and they should be released. Aruba's government spokesman says that may happen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUBEN TRAPENBERG, ARUBAN GOVERNMENT SPOKESMAN: We don't got the details from the investigation from what we think may be the case, that these three gentlemen are pointing the finger to these two guys. So if they have an alibi, they can substantiate where they've been, they may be released, but that's still ongoing. Today, their lawyer, I have heard, may come with a special appeal so that their case can be considered.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: Young men are also held in connection with this particular case. A senior police source is telling CNN one of them has made some sort of confession, but other Aruban officials are denying that claim. Stay tuned on that one.
This case illustrates how a vacation can turn into a nightmare, to say the least, but there are steps you can take to stay safe while traveling overseas. Check out the list of tips on our web site: CNN.com/world.
Day seven of the Jackson jury deliberations. Some live pictures now at the courthouse, Santa Maria, California. Big crowd there. We'll take you there for more on what the evidence the jurors are asking for additional information on.
Also ahead, a man accused in the killings that inspired the movie "Mississippi Burning" goes on trial 40 years after the deaths of three civil rights workers.
And will driving prices down get you to drive a Chevy? GM makes moves to put you in the driver's seat.
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O'BRIEN: The jury reconvenes in Santa Maria, California. A panel of eight women and four men arrived a short time ago to continue deliberations in the Michael Jackson child molestation case. They met for more than 28 hours over six days so far. No verdict yet.
CNN's Ted Rowlands waiting it out in Santa Maria, California. These jurors are asking more questions, aren't they, Ted?
ROWLANDS: Yes, Miles, sources close to the case say that jurors have asked for more read backs this morning during the time that they have been deliberating. They started at 8:30 Pacific Time.
On Friday, they asked for read backs from the testimony of the accuser, several portions of testimony, according to sources close to the case. They also asked questions of the judge, and the lawyers met three separate times on Friday. So clearly, there's a lot of movement, but clearly there is still no verdict here as we wait. This is the seventh day of deliberation. There were two partial days mixed in there. The first day they got the case they only met for about two hours and elected a foreperson. And then last week, the judge allowed them to leave early so that some jurors could attend a graduation.
But they have been in this jury room all of the other days, putting in full days from 8:30 a.m. to 2:30 Pacific each day. They are able to go home. They are not sequestered. So they spent the weekend, presumably, with loved ones, and then now they're back at it once again.
Meanwhile, getting word as to where Michael Jackson is, and how he is doing is little bit more difficult now, because the Jackson fired its spokesperson, Raymone Bain. This was the person that the 2,000-plus members of the media would call on an hourly basis to see where Michael was and how is Michael doing. Now, there's really nobody to call and no updates to be had whether or not Jackson is still at Neverland remains -- it is not -- we're not able to confirm it one way or another.
We know, though, that he only has one hour from the time that the jury does make it a decision until the judge wants to have this verdict read and, therefore, Jackson is presumed to be at least in the general area -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Ted, my understanding was that Raymone Bain was very close to Michael Jackson. Any indication, any guess as to why she might have been fired?
ROWLANDS: There was a small note on the web site Friday, saying that she was being let go, and they thanked her for her service. One source close to the case said it was, quote, "politics." What that means, who knows?
But clearly, there is some infighting there. Tom Mesereau issued a statement last week, saying that no one had been cleared to talk on Jackson's behalf. There was some discussions of who, if anybody, should be talking for the Jacksons. Jesse Jackson was out here giving daily updates. There's no sign of him, either, here today.
So what happened, we don't know. The bottom line is no updates as to Michael Jackson.
O'BRIEN: So, possibly, Mesereau putting a little discipline into the whole camp and silencing people. All right. Ted Rowlands, thank you very much. Keep us posted. Appreciate it.
The killings happened more than 40 years ago, and the defendant is now a frail octogenarian. Jury selection is underway in the "Mississippi Burning" trial of Edgar Ray Killen, who is charged with the murder in the 1964 deaths of three young, civil rights workers.
CNN's Ed Lavandera is in Philadelphia, Mississippi, where there are strong feelings on both sides of an infamous case -- Ed. ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, Miles.
Well, just a short while ago when Edgar Ray Killen arrived here at the courthouse in Philadelphia, Mississippi, he was greeted at his car by a man who identified himself with the Ku Klux Klan.
A little bit later on, when we asked Killen's attorney about that relationship, he said it's a bald-faced lie to suggest the man was with the Klan. However, the man had handed a reporter there in the group his business card, and it had the Klan logo all over it.
That kind of sets the scene here in Philadelphia, Mississippi, for what will be going on here for the next two weeks.
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LAVANDERA (voice-over): It's a chapter of the civil rights struggle that remains incomplete and still haunts Philadelphia, Mississippi.
It was the 1964 Summer of Freedom. Idealistic young people from around the country had come to the South to register black voters. At the center of command among those Freedom Riders, as they were called, were three young men: two white, Andrew Goodman, Michael Schwerner, and one black, James Chaney.
It was June 21. The three men were heading down the Mississippi back roads to investigate a recently torched church. The FBI says after beating several church members, Ku Klux Klan members set fire to the church, leaving it a charred ruin.
But before they reached the church, the group was pulled off the road by local police, arrested for speeding, they were tossed into the Neshoba County Jail. Prosecutors say while the three sat in jail, a gang of about 20 Klan members put a plan in motion to kill them. Accused of leading the effort, part time Baptist preacher Edgar Ray Killen.
Some hours later, the three young civil rights workers were released from jail and drove away in their station wagon. Right behind them were two carloads of Klan members.
After a long chase, the mob forced them off the road. Taken from the cars, the three were killed, shot dead at close range: Schwerner, then Goodman, then Chaney. A bulldozer was brought in to bury them. The bodies disappeared.
The state of Mississippi never charged any of the culprits with murder. There was no federal murder charge then, so instead, the men were brought up on civil rights violations with only seven serving minimal prison sentences.
The man considered to be one of the key instigators, Edgar Ray Killen, walked free, an 11-1 hung jury verdict. Although the jury was all white, there was only one holdout who said at the time she could never convict a preacher. Killen left the courtroom that day a free man, but for more than 30 years groups of civil rights activists, politicians and journalists refused to accept that ruling as the last word. Killen's murder case is the latest in a series of civil rights cases that have been rekindled, looking to right the wrongs of the past.
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LAVANDERA: Now, Edgar Ray Killen is now 80 years old. He says he's innocent, and his attorney told us a little while ago that the day of the murders and the night of the murders, Edgar Ray Killen was at a funeral. Prosecutors wouldn't comment on that allegation. They say that they, however, will present testimony in this case that will be enough to prove his involvement in instigating this plan to kill the three civil rights workers -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Ed, Killen looks pretty frail. How is his health?
LAVANDERA: Well, his attorney says that he's really not capable of handling this kind of trial. At one point, he alluded also to questions of his mental capacity to handle this -- this case. In March, he was -- a tree collapsed on him as he was chopping it down and broke both of his legs.
There are -- a lot of considerations are being put in place during this trial because of his health. In fact, the court will take a break every two hours to allow Mr. Killen to get up and go to a room where he might be able to get physical therapy or to stretch out or do whatever he might need to, to feel comfortable. So the court here going to great lengths to make sure that Mr. Killen will be comfortable as his murder trial continues.
O'BRIEN: Ed Lavandera in Philadelphia, Mississippi, thank you very much.
Live pictures coming in to us right now from the National Press Club in Washington. The vice president of the United States, Dick Cheney there, fielding some questions about Guantanamo. Let's listen.
DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: ... like we've ever known before. But as a by-product, if you will, of that activity, we have from time to time captured individuals who were part of the al Qaeda organization or the Taliban in Afghanistan, who were doing their level best to launch attacks to kill Americans, either on the battlefield or here in the United States. And, many of them now are housed down at Guantanamo.
Given the nature of the conflict that we're involved in, there would need to be some kind of a facility that would allow you to detain people who are enemy combatants, in effect, who, if you put them back on the street, will do their level best to return back to the battlefield or to complete their original mission of trying to kill Americans.
And, what we have at Guantanamo is a facility where we hold today some 540, 545 individuals who are believed to be enemy combatants. There was a process established last year for reviewing the case of every single one of those individuals. And, that review of, I believe, in the last year, roughly 558 folks held at Guantanamo deemed 520 of them to be enemy combatants, based on information that was available with respect to how they were arrested or information that they'd provided and so forth or that others had provided.
Out of 558, that left 38 who have been deemed no longer required to be held at Guantanamo. Five of them have been released, and state is working on arrangements to turn the other 33 others back to their host countries.
Over the course of the conflict, since we began using Guantanamo, over 200 people that were held there have subsequently been released or returned to their home countries.
So there has been a process in place for reviewing and screening the individuals held and making judgments with respect to those that we believe no longer have intelligence value or no longer constitute a threat to the United States.
Of those who have been released, at least 10 have gotten back into the battle on the other side and were subsequently captured or encountered in the ongoing conflict. I've got a list here of six of them. I won't read them all to you, but let me give you just a flavor for a couple of these.
A man named Mulabi Abdul Qafar (ph) was captured in early 2002, released after he'd been held for eight months. After returning to Afghanistan, he became the Taliban's regional commander in Helman (ph) Province, carrying out attacks on U.S. Afghan forces. On September 25, 2004, while planning -- planning an attack against Afghan police, Qafar (ph) and two of his men were killed in a raid by Afghan forces.
O'BRIEN: We have been listening to the vice president of the United States, Dick Cheney. He's at the National Press Club taking some questions about Guantanamo. Lots of calls, both sides of the aisles, to shut down that facility on the island of Cuba. The vice president, of course, defending Guantanamo and it role in the war on terror and holding so-called enemy combatants.
Back with more LIVE FROM in just a moment.
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O'BRIEN (voice-over): Next on LIVE FROM...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was asked to bark like a dog. A female interrogator violated his personal space to the point where he threatened to commit suicide.
O'BRIEN: Did interrogators go too far with prisoners at Guantanamo Bay? A new report raises questions.
Also ahead, should Gitmo be closed? Members of both parties increasingly critical of the prison. We'll go in depth.
Also, later on LIVE FROM, medical mistakes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thirty seconds or less to write down what's toxic, what is not.
O'BRIEN: They kill thousands of people. The story of one family's heart breaking loss.
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O'BRIEN: Well, if you're looking to buy a new car, you could get a break from GM. Susan Lisovicz with that story on the New York Stock Exchange.
Susan, putting a little bit of lipstick on a few road hogs here, huh?
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