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Boy Dies on Disney World Ride; Jackson Jury Explains Reasons Behind Verdict; Pentagon Briefing; Helicopter Crash Lands in East River; Korean War Deserter to Return Home

Aired June 14, 2005 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MILES O'BRIEN, HOST: Disney World death. A 4-year-old dies after a thrill ride at Epcot. We're live from Orlando.
Not guilty. What's next for Michael Jackson? A top record producer with some advice.

Missing teen mystery. Two freed security guards reveal what they heard from the other men in custody.

From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Miles O'Brien. Kyra Phillips is off. We're also expecting a live Pentagon briefing just a few minutes from now. CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.

It is a ride so intense that it comes with a warning. Prospective thrill-seekers are advised to be in good health and free from high blood pressure, heart, back, or neck problems, among other things. And now one child's ride on Walt Disney World's Mission: Space has turned deadly.

Josh Einiger from our affiliate, WFTV, joins us now from Orlando with the latest -- Josh.

JOSH EINIGER, WFTV CORRESPONDENT: Well, Miles, at the start of business this morning, Disney decided to reopen the ride here at Epcot center known as Mission: Space, deeming it safe for riders, less than 24 hours after a family vacation turned to tragedy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

EINIGER: At the Mission: Space attraction, the 3:15 p.m. ride had just ended. Disney guests were filing onto the platform when a woman rushed up to an employee, her young son in her arms.

CRYSTAL CANDY, ORANGE COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: They together laid him on a nearby bench and the Disney employee started performing CPR. And also, another Disney employee called 911.

EINIGER: But 4-year-old Daudi Bamuwamye never woke up. An hour and a half later, doctors at Celebration Hospital pronounced him dead. The Orange County Sheriff's Office launched an investigation.

CANDY: Yesterday, they interviewed family. They also interviewed the employees who were there at the time. You know, at this point, the boy has no known medical problems. And so it's going to be up to the medical examiner to determine exactly why this child died.

EINIGER: Detectives say Daudi met the minimum height requirement of 34 inches and have found nothing obviously wrong with the ride.

CANDY: At this point, it's a mystery. And that's why we have to wait for the medical examiner.

EINIGER: An environment so stressful on the body, people with heart conditions are urged not to take part. Disney refuse to comment how many of its staff are trained in things like CPR, saying, only, quote, "We are providing support to the family and are doing everything we can to help them during this difficult time."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

EINIGER: Investigators say it could be several weeks now before they determine for sure how Daudi died.

Now, by the way, this may be the first fatality associated with Mission: Space, but it is far from the first time someone has been hospitalized. Last year in eight months, six different people were treated for cardiac conditions -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right, Josh. It's a pretty rigorous ride, 2 1/2 G's. They have a few warnings out there. But beyond that, what does Disney do to try to discourage people who might not be up to it?

EINIGER: You know, when you walk in and the video you saw there, the promotional video that you saw there from Disney, you don't see these, but you see them when you stand in line. There are signs everywhere saying if you have a heart condition, if you are pregnant, if you are under 44 inches tall. A very young kid, younger than the 4-year-old who died yesterday, they strongly urge you not to ride -- Mile.

O'BRIEN: Josh Einiger in Orlando, thank you very much.

Jurors in the Michael Jackson case say they hope it's something that will never happen in Neverland again: the singer sharing his bed with young boys. The jury is speaking out, a day after acquitting Jackson on all counts in his child molestation trial. Jackson's attorney is also predicting a behavior change.

CNN's Ted Rowlands joins us now live from Los Olivos, California, near Jackson's ranch.

Ted, you were with this trial from the very beginning. Let's start about -- let's talk, first of all, about what's going on right now at the ranch. I realize you're on the outskirts, but what have you been able to see?

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this morning, not much action. We're right outside the gates here at Neverland. Michael Jackson's father, Joe Jackson, left a few moments ago, rolled down his window and said something bad about one of the reporters that's been covering this case and sped off in his car. That's been about it. The private security threatened to arrest all media if they didn't get off the property. So that's where we are. People anticipated that there could be some sort of statement. But nothing is planned at this point. So Michael Jackson, presumably, resting inside his private residence at his ranch.

O'BRIEN: All right. Tell me, Ted, honestly, in your gut, did you expect not guilty on all 10 counts?

ROWLANDS: Well, honestly in my gut, I didn't know what to expect. Clearly, it could have gone either way. Both sides presented compelling closing arguments, depending on which way you saw the evidence. They were clearly different. Either you believed this young man or you didn't. And you thought Michael Jackson was a victim. He was either a monster or a victim.

And it made sense, the jury's verdict. They came back not guilty. And then they explained their decision, and they have explained it during interviews. And it makes sense.

I would not have been surprised it if would have gone either way. It was clearly one of those situations where anything could have happened, depending on which way this jury was bent in terms of what they believed and what they didn't believe.

O'BRIEN: And that's the way I think many of us felt. But that would sort of lead you to the conclusion the jury would be a little more split. This was a fairly -- it was a strong statement. And really what it was a statement about their feelings about the credibility of the victim and really, probably more specifically, the victim's mother.

ROWLANDS: They analyzed the testimony at the trial. That's what they were supposed to do. And one of the jury instructions that really stand out with all jurors is if there are two stories that are both compelling and both believable, you have to go with the one that points towards innocence.

So the two stories concerning the victim, was he not truthful? Well, he had some inconsistencies on the stand. Talking about the mother, did she have a history of making things up? They thought yes. Was she inconsistent? They thought yes.

When you're given that, and you're a juror that's deciding the fate of somebody, and it is a he said/he said, it's completely conceivable and believable that you would go and follow this instruction to point towards innocence.

So the verdict really wasn't a surprise. They did their job, and they explained it well. They went through the evidence. They took their time with it. And I was very impressed by the jury and the way they worked together and -- and they came up with this not guilty verdict, in the way that they did. They didn't just walk in and show a hand and say, "Oh, we don't believe her." They went through the evidence, and that's what they came up with. O'BRIEN: All right. And final thought here, Michael Jackson, one of his web sites, MJJSource.com. There you see it right there, and when you hit on this thing, you get a little introduction. And it basically compares yesterday, June 3, 2005, to some very momentous days in history, among them, the release of Nelson Mandela from prison in South Africa.

I mean, what does that tell you about Michael Jackson and his potential narcissism?

ROWLANDS: Well, you know, I don't think Michael Jackson is up there typing up his web page. I think somebody is doing that.

The -- the feeling around here -- and there are some fans that have been here all night -- is if you're -- if you're one of these people that is a fan of Michael Jackson, that web page makes perfect sense. And that is who the audience is there.

Clearly, you know, I mean it is what it is. I would venture to say that Michael Jackson himself did not create that web page. Probably one of his supporters and the people that are working with him. But it is what it is.

O'BRIEN: He probably doesn't have any problems with it either.

All right, Ted Rowlands. Yes. The trial's over. You're still covering it, Ted. I'm sorry; it won't be long, I think, before you get back to some normalcy in your life. Thank you very much; appreciate it.

ROWLANDS: Thanks, Miles.

O'BRIEN: It's been less than 24 hours since the verdict since the verdict, and Michael Jackson may already have a new gig lined up. Promoters for the series of Live 8 concerts scheduled for next month reportedly say they'd consider adding him to the bill.

So is Michael Jackson on his way to a career comeback?

CNN pop culture correspondent Toure takes a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOURE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): His album "Thriller" is still the planet's best-selling record ever, even though it's more than 20 years old. He was the first black artist played on MTV. Can Michael Jackson get back to being a mega icon or has he left his career behind on the courthouse steps?

Some in the record business believe MJ can be reinvented. Among them, the chairman of Island Def Jam Music, L.A. Reid.

L.A. REID, CHAIRMAN, ISLAND DEF JAM MUSIC: I believe Michael can absolutely come back. He can absolutely come back. And be phenomenal. TOURE: Reid crafted Mariah Carey's recent comeback, and last year he helped Outkast and Usher reach new career highs. Reid gave us the strategy he'd employ if Jackson was his artist.

REID: There's been some damage done. That's the reality of it. I hated saying that. That was painful, but I had to say it.

TOURE: So where to begin? Some say he should leave the country. How about that?

REID: Sound like he's running, and he doesn't have to. You are Michael Jackson. But understand what that means. That means that you're a superstar. You're a legend. I would -- I would honestly start with him touring and getting out and performing for people and really reminding people that he's one of the greats.

TOURE (on camera): Big arenas or more intimate venues?

REID: Intimate. Keep it small.

TOURE (voice-over): After Jackson finishes his reach out to the people tour, Reid advises he change his address.

REID: Absolutely move out of Neverland and move to New York City, you know, and start to really feel some of the concrete. Feel some of the grind, you know?

And I'm not saying become regular, because it's impossible. It's a pipe dream to ever see Michael Jackson just walking up and down the street. But feel it. Go out to the restaurants. Go out and hang, you know. Go to the club and listen to some music.

Guess what, Michael is bordering on normal. You know?

TOURE (on camera): That has to be the headline, "Oh, my God, he's so normal."

REID: He's normal.

TOURE (voice-over): And if Jackson makes a comeback album, this image maker wants it to be very personal.

REID: I would go emotional. I would not go dancy-dancy, try to be too cool, try to be too young, try to be too hip. I would go emotional and try to touch the heart with music.

TOURE: And if Jackson likes Reid's plan, he's free to take him up on it.

(on camera) He sees this piece and calls you: "Let's do a deal." Would you sign him?

REID: I would absolutely sign Michael. Every great artist is one song, one great song, away from being back.

TOURE (voice-over): Toure, CNN, New York. (END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Americans love a comeback, don't they? Tonight on CNN, the man who prosecuted the singer, Santa Barbara D.A. Tom Sneddon. He'll be a guest on "PAULA ZAHN NOW," 8 p.m. Eastern. You'll want to hear that interview.

And at 9:00, Jackson's lead defense attorney, Thomas Mesereau, appears on "LARRY KING LIVE." It would be great to have them on the same show, wouldn't it? Anyway.

Two men connected with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway are now free, and the focus is intensifying on three men who remain in custody. CNN's John Zarrella is in Palm Beach, Aruba.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is unclear whether these latest development will bring authorities any closer to solving the mystery surrounding the disappearance of Natalee, but certainly, it is great relief for two security guard who worked at a nearby hotel.

We had been fully expecting that there would be a hearing today to discuss whether they would be released. But rather than that happening, late last night, authorities decided to go ahead and release the two security guards.

They have maintained since their arrest on June 5 that they did not know the girl, had not seen the girl, and had nothing to do with her disappearance.

Now, they were initially fingered by three young boys, two Surinamese boys and one Dutch boy. Those three boys remain in custody here on the island. And now that the security guards have at least been cleared, the focus now shifts to these three boys.

Now it -- we believe that, formally accused now, the three boys, of murder, manslaughter and the kidnapping with fatal results of Natalee Holloway. But, remember, the formally accused does not mean they are charged. The security guards were never charged either. In fact, no one has been charged in this case.

Now while all this is happening, family members continue to search with volunteers around the island, looking for Natalee Holloway. But again, still no signs of the missing 18-year-old.

John Zarrella, CNN, Palm Beach Aruba.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN (voice-over): Gitmo under fire, deadly insurgent attacks in Iraq. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's live briefing from the Pentagon moments away.

Later on LIVE FROM, an American Army sergeant who deserted to North Korea 40 years ago comes home for the first time.

MICHAEL COOKE, CHARLES JENKINS' BOYHOOD FRIEND: There's not going to be any parades.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was a coward.

O'BRIEN: Ahead on LIVE FROM...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He pushed me in the car.

O'BRIEN: Grabbed at her school bus stop, saved by quick thinking and text messaging.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECY. OF DEFENSE: ... prosecuting terrorists after they strike was an inadequate approach, particularly given the lethal threats posed by violent extremists.

During the operations since September 11th, the military has apprehended thousands of enemy combatants, and several hundred were determined to be particularly dangerous and valuable from an intelligence perspective.

There was no existing set of procedures or facilities to detain these enemies in Afghanistan or elsewhere. After extensive discussions with his senior advisers, the president decided that they were not entitled to formal prisoner-of-war status under the Geneva Conventions and that they were certainly not criminal defendants in the traditional law enforcement sense.

Indeed, faced with this new situation, the president ordered that detained combatants be treated humanely under the laws of war. The detention facility at Guantanamo Bay was established for the simple reason that the United States needed a safe and secure location to detain and interrogate enemy combatants. It was the best option available.

The Department of Defense, working through the National Security Council interagency process, established procedures that would provide appropriate legal process to these detainees, procedures that go beyond what is required even under the Geneva Conventions. These included combatant status review tribunals to confirm that, in fact, each individual is, in fact, an unlawful enemy combatant.

Every detainee currently at Guantanamo has received such a hearing. As a result, some 38 individuals were released.

Military commissions, trials with full representation by defense counsel, for those suspected of committing war crimes. The commissions have been temporarily suspended, pending further review by the U.S. federal court system.

RUMSFELD: And third, administrative review boards that annually assess the remaining potential threat and intelligence value represented by each detainee. These boards are designed to re-examine detainees regularly, in order to identify detainees who can be released.

Our goal as a country is to detain as few people as is possible and is safe. We prefer to return them to their countries of origin, if the country is capable and willing to manage them in an appropriate way.

In some countries -- Iraq and Afghanistan -- we have begun a process of trying to help them develop the proper facilities and the proper trained forces to manage these detainees.

Other countries have not satisfied the U.S. government as yet that they will treat their nationals humanely, were this to be transferred to their countries. Still others don't have laws that permit them to detain individuals of this sort and they're in the process of passing such laws.

One of these detained terrorist at Guantanamo is a man called Mohamed al-Kahtani, believed to be the 20th hijacker on September 11th. He has direct ties to Al Qaida's top leadership, including Osama bin Laden.

While at Guantanamo, Kahtani and other detainees have provided valuable information, including insights into Al Qaida planning for September 11th, including recruiting and logistics, the identities and detailed information of 20 of Osama bin Laden's bodyguards, information leading to the capture of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the architect of the September 11th attacks, and information allowing foreign police to detain 22 suspected terrorists plotting attacks earlier this year.

Detainees are sent to Guantanamo only after a proper screening process that identifies these prisoners who pose a threat to the United States or who have intelligence value. The kind of people held at Guantanamo include terrorist trainers, bombmakers, extremists recruiters and financiers, bodyguards of Osama bin Laden and would-be suicide bombers. They're not common car thieves; they're believed to be determined killers.

RUMSFELD: Arguably, no detention facility in the history of warfare has been more transparent or received more scrutiny than Guantanamo.

Last year, the department declassified highly sensitive memoranda on interrogation techniques. Unfortunately, they were documents that are useful to terrorist operatives. And we posted them on the Internet specifically to set the record straight about U.S. policies and practices.

There have been nearly 400 separate media visits to Guantanamo Bay by more than 1,000 journalists. Additionally, some 180 congressional representatives have visited the facility.

We provide continuous access to the International Committee of the Red Cross, whose representatives meet privately with the detainees.

Allegations of abuse at Guantanamo Bay, as at any other U.S. military facility, have been thoroughly investigated. Any wrongdoers are being held accountable.

The U.S. military has instituted numerous reforms of the conduct of detainee operations, with a renewed emphasis on standards and training.

The U.S. military has also gone to unprecedented lengths to respect the religious sensibilities of these enemies of civil society, including the issuance of detailed regulations governing the handling of the Koran and arranging schedules for detainees around the five daily calls for prayer required by the Muslim faith.

RUMSFELD: In fact, at Guantanamo, the military spends more per meal for detainees to meet their religious dietary requirements than it spends for rations for U.S. troops.

Since September 11th, the military has released tens of thousands of detainees, including some 200 from Guantanamo.

Regrettably, we now know that some of those detainees that were released from Guantanamo have again taken up arms against the United States and our allies and were again attempting to kill innocent men, women and children.

The U.S. government will continue to transfer others to their countries of origin after negotiating appropriate agreements to ensure their humane treatment.

The United States government, let alone the U.S. military, does not want to be in the position of holding suspected terrorists any longer than is absolutely necessary.

But as long as there remains a need to keep terrorists from striking again, a facility will continue to be needed.

The U.S. taxpayers have invested over $100 million in military construction in the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay. And it is spending something like an average of $90 million to $95 million a year to operate that facility to its highest standards.

The real problem is not Guantanamo Bay. The problem is that, to a large extent, we are in unexplored territory with this unconventional and complex struggle against extremism. Traditional doctrines covering criminals and military prisoners do not apply well enough.

As the president has said, we are always looking for ways to improve our procedures. And, of course, we have been looking for better suggestions as to how to manage detainees who pose a lethal threat to the civilized world. And we have already implemented dozens of reforms.

Finally, today is the 230th birthday of the United States Army. RUMSFELD: From this republic's earliest days the American people have depended on our soldiers to protect our freedoms and to stand against those who seek to take our freedoms away.

Theirs is a proud history.

So I want to wish the Army a happy birthday and extend my appreciation to all those who serve in the United States Army around the world and the appreciation of a grateful nation.

General Pace?

GENERAL PETER PACE, VICE CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: Thank you, Mr. Secretary.

I would like to join with the secretary in wishing all the Army family a very, very happy 230th birthday, not only the 1 million men and women who serve on active, Guard and Reserve duty, but especially the million families that are out there who support in a very strong, silent way their soldier. Our country is fortunate to have them all.

Happy birthday.

RUMSFELD: Charlie?

QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, you mentioned today is the Army's birthday. The Army has failed to meet its recruiting goals four months in a row now, and both the Army Reserve and National Guard are behind in their recruiting goals thus far this year.

Is the Army in a recruiting crisis? And is the viability, in fact, of the volunteer U.S. military threatened here?

PACE: I think the Army is taking the right leadership approach to the problems they've had the last couple of months in meeting their recruiting goals.

First of all, we should make note of the fact that they're looking for almost 8,000 more soldiers this year than they were last year because of our desire to grow the Army so it can transform itself and then go back down to its prewar size. But there is an increased number there.

The Army has allocated another 3,000 recruiters and a good deal of leadership time to train those recruiters and getting out to our communities.

Interestingly, those who serve in the Army today who are currently on active duty are reenlisting at historic numbers.

PACE: We have had the goals for reenlistment exceeded, especially by those units who have served in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Why? Because those soldiers have had the opportunity to serve the country the way they volunteered to do. They get it. They understand the tremendous positive impact they're having. So from the standpoint of retention, we're doing very, very well.

From the standpoint of new recruiting, we need to work harder to get the Army message out to our young men and women who are prospective volunteers. And as a country we need to encourage our young people to serve this country in a time of need.

QUESTION: Well, I guess I would ask both of you gentlemen again, the Army has had additional recruiters for almost four months now. And, again, they've fallen short four months in a row. Is there a crisis in Army recruiting, Mr. Secretary?

RUMSFELD: Well, it takes time for these things to take. In other words, you see the indications of a fall-off.

You have to begin with this principle: that we're increasing the size of the Army, so the goals are higher. Therefore, the infrastructure to achieve the goals were lower than they would need to be to achieve the desired goals.

Second, the normal pool you draw from is the people who are coming out, in many instances, for the Guard and the Reserve. And, of course, that pool's down, because more people are being retained on active duty.

I think that General Pace answered the question properly and correctly. And obviously, the Army is renewing their efforts to see that they increase and come up -- the Navy's fine, the Air Force is fine, the Marines are fine and the Army has fallen short.

QUESTION: Neither of you, again, have said whether or not this is a crisis for the Army.

RUMSFELD: Well, because that's a journalist word. It's a headline word.

We're trying to accurately describe precisely what's taking place. And that's what we've done, rather than offer a headline like that for you.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: ... seems to be a major problem.

RUMSFELD: I'm sorry, Charlie.

Well, that's why they've increased recruiters, that's why they've increased their advertising budgets, that's why they've increased their efforts, is because the numbers are short of their increased goal.

QUESTION: Well, can you accurately describe precisely what you're going to do at the end of the year if the Army is not able to meet its goal of 80,000 troops, which every indication is at this point they're not going to be able to do, given the trend line? PACE: There's a difference between what the Army wants to send to recruit training this year and the numbers of new personnel they want to access into their delayed entry program to be able to train them and get them ready to go to next year.

So the Army has capacity in its delayed entry program pool right now to shift enough people into this year to cover this year's numbers if needed.

The real concern is that longer term, as you deplete some of your pool that you have waiting to go in the out-months, that that pool becomes smaller and smaller, and that then becomes a problem.

The Army has taken the leadership decisions they need to make to get the extra recruiters out there. It does take time.

I was on recruiting duty for three years in Buffalo, New York, in 1980 to 1983. It takes time, it takes anywhere from four to six months for a new recruiter, new Sergeant Pace to come on to duty, get trained up and become effective in talking to prospective applicants.

So it will take some time. But the Army has made the right decisions and they're putting the resources toward it.

RUMSFELD: There are other things that are being done in answer to your question.

One is that we are, as you know, under the new National Security Personnel System, moving people who are military people serving in civilian functions out of civilian functions and replacing them with civilians.

That number is not trivial. This has involved already some 10,000 as I recall, and the total universe that one can look at is 200,000 to 300,000, not one service, all services.

RUMSFELD: I wouldn't want to leave the impression that it would be desirable to take that large a number out, but it's a pool of people that can be accessed.

The second thing we're doing is, for many months now, as you know, the Navy and the Air Force have been actually pulling down some numbers, and we have been working with personnel in the Air Force and in the Navy to see if some of the individuals needed for the Army might come from there.

Third, what we've done is we've taken some of the functions that Army people perform where we've had, because of malorganization in the Army, a shortage of certain skill sets. We've been training not only Army people to learn those skill sets, but we've been training some Air Force and Navy people to fulfill those functions by giving them that training.

So there are a variety of things under way, that have been under way for some time to deal with the problem. QUESTION: Can we go back to Guantanamo just for a moment? With your five-minute, I guess, soliloquy about Gitmo, do we take that now as the definitive administration policy? Because the president and the White House press secretary left the door slightly ajar on Guantanamo, saying all options are on the table.

RUMSFELD: Always go with the president.

QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, on that line, it costs a lot of money to keep people at Guantanamo -- flying lawyers in and out...

RUMSFELD: Absolutely.

QUESTION: ... and there appears to be no legal advantage any longer, since the people there have recourse to the U.S. federal courts.

What's the advantage of keeping people in Guantanamo over, say, Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, or another place where we've got infrastructure?

RUMSFELD: I don't know any place where we have infrastructure that's appropriate for that sizable group of people.

The investment's been made.

The second thing, as you know, I'm not a lawyer, but my recollection is that, if you ask the lawyer the question you've just asked they would say that there are some things that are similar, but other things that are dissimilar as between location in the United States versus location at Guantanamo.

And Larry Di Rita can get those precise legal distinctions for you.

And, of course, these things are still being reviewed in the courts now, so who knows what will be the case tomorrow or the next week.

QUESTION: I wonder if you could give us a sense of when you expect to get recommendations from Generals Abizaid and Casey about troop levels in Iraq? And do you expect a decrease in the current 140,000-some odd troops there by the end of the year?

RUMSFELD: Well, they, obviously, are constantly reviewing their circumstance in Afghanistan and Iraq and elsewhere around the world, in the entire CENTCOM area of responsibility.

And we had a meeting this morning, for example, on Afghanistan, and spent -- I don't know, it was a considerable amount of time going over that.

We do this regularly and as they come up with differing proposals, why, we receive them and then discuss them with the president and make announcements as appropriate.

But I wouldn't want to prejudge them or predict them.

QUESTION: Do you have a sense when they might recommend whether or not there'll be decreases?

RUMSFELD: No.

QUESTION: There was some talk early this spring about reducing the size of the U.S. contingent there. Is that possible?

RUMSFELD: I think the talk wasn't by General Abizaid or General Pace or Don Rumsfeld or the president.

What I would say is that, in Afghanistan you've got September 18th elections coming up for the provinces as well as the national parliament. That's a much more complex task than the presidential election because of the thousands -- I believe it's in the thousands of candidates for all of those different offices.

RUMSFELD: So that very likely -- and we've talked at NATO about this, about actually increasing some NATO forces during that period. And General Abizaid would have to make a judgment with General Eichenberry as to how he would want to manage that period. But one has to believe that, just as we found in the presidential election, the Al Qaida and the Taliban are certainly not in favor of success there, and we are. So we have to manage that.

In Iraq, we've got elections coming up -- correction: a referendum on a constitution to be written between now and October. And after the referendum, then there would be elections under the new constitution in December.

So we have those things that we do have to keep in mind, as well as the state of play on the ground.

Excuse me, Pete, go ahead.

PACE: It will be event-driven, not timeline-driven. And to put any kind of a timeline on it really is not a smart way to approach it.

QUESTION: The New York Times has quoted unnamed generals in Iraq saying it could be two years or longer before U.S. troops are reduced there. Is that what you're hearing from the generals in Iraq?

RUMSFELD: No.

QUESTION: What are you hearing from the generals in Iraq?

There have been varied reports about the status of Iraqi security forces, whether they're really getting the job done. Some Iraqi commanders are even doubting their own ability to stand up without U.S. forces backing them up.

General Pace, can you give us a realistic update of what you're looking at now?

PACE: I'll use one example. Let's just use Iraqi army battalions.

In May of 2004, there was one -- count them: one -- Iraqi army battalion that was deployable anywhere inside that country. Today there are over 100 battalions, not all of which are fully capable of independent operations right now.

But we have from the U.S. commanders in the field, who are working side by side with them, a breakdown of readiness capability like we provide for our own troops that tell us how many of each type of battalion are available for country-wide deployment, how many are best still to stay in the local vicinity, how many still need more training.

All of that is very positive.

PACE: And the numbers of battalions that are operating first side by side with us has increased dramatically. Then those that are operating independent, as Iraqi units, under their own country's orders, has increased dramatically. The numbers of Iraqi army brigades has increased.

So everything about the train-and-equip program over this last year, under General Casey and General Petraeus, has gone extremely well. They're at just shy of 200,000 total security forces right now. Just shy of that. All not fully train and equipped...

RUMSFELD: I saw 169,000 this week...

PACE: OK, sir.

RUMSFELD: That could be wrong, but...

PACE: I'll check my number. Thank you, sir.

But the bottom line is one battalion a year ago, over 100 battalions working, not only as battalions, but as brigades, meaning three or more battalions at a time. And the division headquarters that are stood up. Three areas that we had as U.S./coalition bases have in the last month been turned over to Iraqi forces, so they have that now their bases of operation.

So this progress is very good.

QUESTION: Just this past week, the inspector general testified before Congress about his accountability review of the Boeing tanker lease. Last November, you described Darleen Druyun as a criminal who had very little adult supervision.

RUMSFELD: A self-confessed criminal. I wasn't judgmental. I think she pled guilty, and she's now in jail, I think.

QUESTION: She is in jail.

In April, you had said, "If..."

RUMSFELD: A good place to be. QUESTION: "... someone does something wrong, they ought to be punished."

RUMSFELD: Right. QUESTION: And now in his report, Inspector General Schmitz has issued a long list of individuals who were accountable for what went wrong in that case, for not properly following acquisition procedures and for pushing through a deal that would have cost taxpayers an estimated $6 billion more than it should have.

In fact, he said that if the contract had been signed, there would have been criminal violations.

QUESTION: What action do you plan to take to punish those cases of wrongdoing? And what safeguards are you planning to implement to make sure it doesn't happen again?

RUMSFELD: We can give you a list of the safeguards and investigations and studies that have already been implemented since the beginning of this process. And I'm sure the press office will give you that, because there have been a number of things that have been already done.

The short answer is, as with any inspector general's report, it'll be studied and evaluated and judgments would be made about it.

QUESTION: In what time frame do you expect to do that, sir?

RUMSFELD: I don't do time frames.

QUESTION: And can you speak to your role in approving that deal?

There is some contradiction within that report about whether you were actively involved in making the decision to proceed with that deal or whether that decision was left up to Undersecretary Aldridge.

RUMSFELD: And this is in this report?

QUESTION: Yes, and in the testimony, the inspector general's staff said that they interviewed you and Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz and that their impression was, or what they understood from those interviews was that you had let Aldridge make that decision and then supported it.

I'm wondering if you can give us your recollection of this.

RUMSFELD: I'd have to go back and read this and then talk to the people involved to refresh myself.

PACE: If I could correct myself while I'm still on mike here, the secretary is correct: There's 169,000 troops -- thanks, Larry -- 169,000 troops today. My number of 200,000 was a projection by December of this year.

So I'm just...

RUMSFELD: Or by October.

PACE: By December, sir.

RUMSFELD: Is it December?

(LAUGHTER)

RUMSFELD: His number does not include the site protection people, which number something like 70,000 additional people who don't report anymore either, as I understand, certainly not to the Ministry of Defense, and have a different role. They actually physically go out and protect a ministry or they do something else. So there are security people beyond the ones that we report on regularly.

QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, the Iraqi national security minister said the Iraqis are considering an amnesty for the insurgents.

RUMSFELD: Is there such a thing as an national security minister?

QUESTION: There is.

RUMSFELD: You mean adviser to the prime minister or the minister of defense or the minister of interior?

QUESTION: The national security minister.

RUMSFELD: OK. That's a new title for me. What's his name or her name?

QUESTION: His name is Abu -- no, that's a different guy.

(LAUGHTER)

Abdul Karim al-Inizi says that the Iraqis are considering an amnesty program for the insurgents. And I'm wondering what you think about this idea.

RUMSFELD: Well, you know, we've done that in our country. On occasion there have been steps taken that relieve people of responsibilities.

In Afghanistan, a sovereign nation, President Karzai is in the process of trying to find a way to get the lower-level Taliban who don't have blood on their hands brought back into the society and connected, to reduce the support for the insurgency.

Iraq's a sovereign nation, and even though I don't know precisely who that individual is at the moment, it would be a perfectly understandable thing to me for them, a sovereign nation, to say that they would like to find a way to make sure that more people are engaged inside the tent rather than outside the tent.

You say there have been reports and so I can't comment on the anonymous quote, "There have been reports about it." And I hadn't seen his statement. But it would not surprise me at all for discussions of that type of be taking place.

RUMSFELD: If you think about it, you've got tribal relationships in that country that go back decades and decades and decades.

And to the extent you can get a tribe that has a portion of its people opposing the government and a portion of the people supporting the government pulled in, boy, that's a good thing.

You want to constantly try to tip people toward support for the Iraqi government if you're going to have a successful single country at peace with its neighbors that's able to provide the kind of opportunities for its people that everyone knows that country can do.

QUESTION: Would you have a problem if such a program included amnesty for those who have engaged in attacks that have killed American soldiers?

RUMSFELD: You know, I don't want to get into that. It's not our role.

It's a sovereign nation. They've got a parliament, national assembly. They have a government. They're going to have a constitution. These are tough decisions they're going to have to make, and they're going to have to live with the decisions they make.

And that's the way it works. You know, at some moment if you got your hand on the bicycle seat, you have to let it go.

And they're going to have to make that decision. And that's fine. And they'll make a decision that will be an Iraqi decision, not an American decision.

QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, on a broader question -- maybe both of you can take a crack at this.

RUMSFELD: We'll make this the last question, this broader question.

QUESTION: Two years plus since the U.S. invasion, the insurgency seems to be vibrant. Certainly the number of attacks seem to be going up and down, but we're in a period now where they seem to be up.

General Pace, maybe you can give us, kind of, a big-picture assessment of the military operation. How successful has it been? The state of the insurgency, if you will.

And, Mr. Secretary, on the political side, how confident are you that there could be a successful political reconciliation in Iraq between these tribal and ethnic factions you talk about?

QUESTION: Could you try to give us a broad-picture assessment of where we are?

RUMSFELD: OK.

PACE: We're operating against a thinking enemy, clearly. The numbers of attacks countrywide in Iraq each day is about 50 or 60, depending upon the day. That's not a good number. It's also not a terrible number. It just is a fact.

Inside those attacks, the enemy has changed their tactics, techniques and procedures in response to the way we've been doing it.

There's been a tremendous amount of progress, as I've already mentioned in this discussion. But from the standpoint of the Iraqi people, what our armed forces and their armed forces and their police can do is provide a level of security inside of which discussions amongst various tribes, amongst various political leaders, amongst those who have different views of the way ahead for the country, but peacefully, to discuss it. So that they can get together and do what they're doing, which is write a constitution, have a referendum, vote for their next government and get on about having the lives they're capable of having.

So the security situation is very important for that. But I would not chase the spikes and dip in the security situation. If you draw a straight line through the middle of that, it's fairly constant. That's not good or bad. It's fact.

But inside of that fairly constant line, there's plenty of opportunity for the Iraqi people to stand up and vote their own futures.

RUMSFELD: On the political portion of it, that's, obviously, not the business of this department, but I can comment on it.

The general feeling is as follows: that the election was held January 30th. It took a number of weeks to put a government together, not a number of years. But a group of people with no experience in democracy at all took a number of weeks -- a few months -- to put together a government. A lot of tugging and hauling. A lot of negotiating about what it would mean in the assembly. A lot of negotiating about what it might mean with respect to the constitution drafting.

RUMSFELD: A lot of negotiating about what it might mean as to who's in what ministry and for what reasons, and in the presidential council, I believe they call it.

And they came to a conclusion...

O'BRIEN: All right, we apologize for abruptly ending the briefing coverage there, but he was just wrapping it up. Let's go to live pictures right now. Coming to us from our affiliate WABC in New York City, what you're seeing there is the remnants of a helicopter, helicopter crash occurring there in the East River, just off the island of Manhattan.

And as you can see, as you look at that helicopter, it's upside down in the water, and it has some -- what appear to be gray pontoons inflated there. Those are devices which are on all helicopters which fly safely and legally over water, to allow them to make emergency landings on the water if need be. So that indicates that the pilot knew that something was amiss, inflated those bags, those airbags, if you will, that provide them some flotation in the water, and the helicopter now sits upside down in the East River there.

So is it possible there was a safe landing and then it was upset by the rough seas in the East River? That's quite a possibility there.

There are a couple of heliports on the east side of Manhattan, one at 34th Street and one at the lower tip of Manhattan, the battery near pier six. This apparently has happened right around pier 11, I am told. So it's possible that this helicopter was on approach to it could have been either one of those heliports, and ran into some difficulty, causing that pilot to inflate those pontoons, which are there for just such emergencies.

And it appears what they're doing here -- we see, obviously, the rescue workers on the scene there with stretchers. But it appears to be -- seems to be people being escorted off there. Possibly those are passengers onboard. We don't know the full story just yet. Anybody who's visited Manhattan knows it's a very busy place for helicopter up and down the East River and the Hudson River, a lot of executives going to and fro Manhattan to various airports and other destinations, and those heliports are actively used.

It's possible in a situation like this an engine might have failed as the helicopter was on its way to or fro, the pilot deciding -- there you see somebody clearly -- all right, we see somebody there who's in need of some attention, clearly, but appears to be conscious.

On the phone with us now is Patrick Montgomery, with the United States Coast Guard, which is obviously involved in this rescue effort.

Patrick, what can you tell us about this incident? Are you there, Patrick? Can you hear me, sir?

PATRICK MONTGOMERY, U.S. COAST GUARD, SPOKESMAN: Yes, I can.

O'BRIEN: All right, Patrick Montgomery with the coast guard, are you with us?

MONTGOMERY: Yes, I am.

O'BRIEN: All right, you're on the air now with CNN. If you could just tell us what you know about this incident?

MONTGOMERY: Absolutely. The Coast Guard is responding to a helicopter that is down in the East River with approximately six people reported to be onboard. We have Coast Guard cutters responding right now.

O'BRIEN: OK, it appears at least one person is being carried away on a stretcher. Do you know if all six people are out of the helicopter at this point?

MONTGOMERY: We do not know that right now. We have several Coast Guard boats and cutters on the scene right now, trying to assist in the situation.

O'BRIEN: All right, six people on board. Was this a sightseeing helicopter, as far as you know?

MONTGOMERY: I do not know. The reports were a downed helicopter, and we are trying to respond as quickly as possible to help ensure that people are out safely.

O'BRIEN: Tell us what kind of response you have ordered there.

MONTGOMERY: We have several different boat of varying sizes. We have the Coast Guard cutter, Captain Walker (ph), which is a larger Coast Guard cutter, as well as a smaller Coast Guard cutter from Bayon (ph), and several small Coast Guard boats should be responding very shortly.

O'BRIEN: And this happened about what time?

MONTGOMERY: We received word about 15 minutes ago.

O'BRIEN: OK, 15 minutes ago. And it appears -- it's pier 11, is that correct?

MONTGOMERY: It's in the area between pier 11 and the 34th Street pier. I don't have the exact location yet.

O'BRIEN: And 34th Street, of course, the location of one of the heliports in Manhattan. Do you have any indication as to whether the pilot was trying to make it to one of the heliports, perhaps 34th Street?

MONTGOMERY: No, sir, we don't have that yet. We are just acting on the reports of people in the water right now.

O'BRIEN: OK. And so as far as you know -- because what I'm looking at are some pictures which show that the inflatable pontoons on the helicopter were, in fact, deployed, indicating that the pilot probably knew there was some problem. Missing some tape of that. You'll see the helicopter upside down in those gray, cylinder-like things -- are basically air bags. You don't know anything about the circumstances that led to this?

MONTGOMERY: No, sir. The first thing that we're trying to do is help rescue the people in the water.

O'BRIEN: All right. And we'll let you get back to it. Patrick Montgomery with the U.S. Coast Guard. Thank you for your help. I know you're busy there, taking care of this situation. And you can see, obviously, a very impressive response. New York Fire Department, New York Police Department, on the scene. And of course, as you just heard, United States Coast Guard. I think you can see the bow end of one of those Coast Guard cutters just there right now.

as you can see, you have some rescue divers there. It looks like they're wearing maybe a dry suit. Might have inside that helicopter, trying to continue the rescue effort. But as the Coast Guard just told us, unclear right now if any of the six people that were on board this helicopter are still there.

We did, just a few moments ago, as you well know and if you're watching, see somebody carried away on a stretcher. They appeared to be conscious and appeared to be having some kind of conversation with the rescue workers. All right.

And we have with us now, also on the line, is CNN's Kathleen Koch, who may have some additional information for us. Kathleen is always in close contact with the FAA and other authorities -- Kathleen.

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Miles, I did just speak with Laura Brown (ph). She's a spokesman for the FAA. And what the FAA knows at this point is that this helicopter made a hard landing in the Hudson River, near what they're calling the Wall Street Helipad. The only other information is that there were seven people on board and the FAA believes they are all out of the water at this point.

O'BRIEN: OK. So that's slightly conflicting from what we heard. We heard six people from the U.S. Coast Guard. But the key there is the FAA is fairly certain that everybody's out?

KOCH: That's what we heard. Laura with would not say anything about their condition. She also could not say exactly where the helicopter was bound or who was flying what operation. But at this point, the FAA is reporting that all seven passengers are out of the water, though no word on their condition.

O'BRIEN: All right. Seven passengers. We don't know for sure if it was a sightseeing-type of operation or anything like that?

KOCH: Right, we don't. And I guess I should say seven people on board. We don't know that -- if this was -- I assume at least one pilot and then a number of passengers.

O'BRIEN: OK. Kathleen Koch, thank you. Continue working the phones for us, if you would. And that additional information from the FAA, slightly conflicting. Seven people is the number. But the key here, to point out to you, is according to the FAA, everybody's out of the water.

So just to do a little bit of quick supposition here, we had a pilot and six passengers -- let's make that assumption for just a moment -- one pilot would be normal in this situation. Some sort of engine trouble. He deploys those inflatable devices there. A landing without an engine on the helicopter is called an auto rotation. I've experienced one of these right up to the very last moment. And if you land in an auto rotation, you know you've landed, that's for sure. Hard landing. But nevertheless, a survivable one with those flotation devices in the East River.

Watching that and a lot of other things. Back with more in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) O'BRIEN: OK. Here's the story we're tracking. And this is some picture coming into us -- I believe these are WABC pictures. We think -- sorry, WNYW. We shifted gears a little bit. We thank them both for their pictures and their assistance in all of this.

And what you see in the lower part of your screen right there, you can probably make it out, are the treads of an upside down helicopter in the East River. That's Pier 11 in Manhattan. And those gray, sort of cylindrical-like devices there are inflatable air bags that helicopters that fly over water are required to have. And those are there for the possibility of some kind of engine failure over water. And it provides a little bit of flotation, kind of a stop-gap measure, for a helicopter that is in some difficulty with its engine.

And it is apparent -- that's what happened here -- that the pilot had some difficulty with his engine. Perhaps an engine out, inflated those air bags, made a hard landing, what's called an auto rotation, when the engine go out on a helicopter. We're told there were seven aboard, including the pilot. We don't know exactly its mission was. Was it a sight-seeing mission, was it some sort of executive transport mission. In any case, we're told by the FAA that all seven are out.

The Coast Guard is on the scene. They said there were six aboard. We're trying to straighten out that little discrepancy on the numbers. But want to underscore that point, that the FAA indicates that everybody got out. Now, I should point out, that as it -- is upside down right now, it's quite possible that was just overturned by the rough seas of the East River. Those inflatable emergency devices are kind of a stop-gap measure and would not be enough for a helicopter to weather any rough seas.

CNN's Susan Lisovicz, who normally looks at business for us, has had the occasion to fly in and out of some of those heliports in Manhattan, to no less an august place in the Forbes yacht, but that's another story entirely.

Susan, it is a busy helicopter location, Manhattan is. And I've often marveled at the skill of the pilots there negotiating that busy airspace and those tiny little heliports.

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. I mean, you have to remember, when people think, Miles, of New York City, you have to remember that most of the business, most of the activity, is taking place in Manhattan, which is a tiny little island. And lower Manhattan, where I'm speaking to you from now, which is just really a few blocks, a few minutes walk, to the East River.

So these helicopter pilots, when they're navigating, they're either going around the Hudson River -- there's a landing strip there, or on the East River. Donald Trump oftentimes, you see him taking off from, for instance, from the East River.

This is a very congested airspace. Not only do you have three major airports -- Newark Airport, JFK and La Guardia -- you also have a lot of private jet traffic. So for instance, executives who want to get to Teterboro, New Jersey, may, in fact, decide to get into helicopter to get there quickly, because otherwise you just don't know how long it's going to take, if you're going through one of the tunnels, the G.W. Bridge, or what not.

But I can tell you this is a very heavily trafficked area, because you also have the media center of the nation. So you always have a lot of traffic choppers in the air that are monitoring accidents, tie-ups, what have you. So to see helicopters in the air at any given time is a very common sight here.

O'BRIEN: Well, and perhaps because of those sheer numbers, it's not too uncommon to hear about mishaps with helicopters. There have been quite a few incidents over the years with traffic and/or television news-gathering helicopters that have ended up in the drink around Manhattan.

LISOVICZ: Well, one of the most famous ones, actually, Miles, took place decades ago. The building was then called Pan Am, the Pan Am building, right next to Grand Central Station.

There used to be a heliport on top of this skyscraper. And that was a tragic, tragic accident. People died. The helicopter fell down into the streets of Midtown, the congested streets of Midtown. That no longer exists.

But I do recall about a year or two ago one of the local news stations here, WNBC, did have an accident involving a traffic chopper. And thankfully, everyone survived. And, again, it involved tremendous skills for this pilot to land something -- it was on top of a roof, I believe, in one of the outer boroughs, Brooklyn, I believe it was.

O'BRIEN: Now, as you -- do you recall from your flights to these tiny little heliports, it's kind of scary, isn't it?

LISOVICZ: It is. It's very scary. I mean, the ride that you were referring to was actually the -- "Forbes" magazine every now and then has media get-togethers. And they actually have a landing strip, if you can imagine, on a boat. And it took off from the Hudson River.

But the heliports themselves that are on land are not much -- much wider than that, because the one on the west side, for instance, by the Hudson River is very narrow, indeed. So it's a straight shot. It's very different from an airplane which, you know, taxis -- rather, it gathers all this momentum before it takes off, where with a helicopter, it just goes straight up.

O'BRIEN: Yes. And what amazes me -- I've seen this happen many times -- you know, they can only come in from one direction because of the buildings. And if they -- if the wind happens to be blowing them on a tail wind, it can be very challenging. Of course, we're not talking necessarily about what happened here today.

What this looks like, it appear, is a pilot who had some sort of mechanical malfunction, perhaps an engine out, which caused him to inflate those emergency air bags there and caused that hard landing in the East River. Once again, just to reset things for you, about a half an hour ago, this helicopter, on approach, we believe, trying to make it to one of the heliports in the east side of Manhattan, perhaps the one downtown, maybe the one at 34th Street -- it's kind of in between right now, so we don't know for sure -- seven people on board, including the pilot. According to the FAA, made a hard landing, which would lead you do believe it was a so-called auto rotation or an engine-out landing.

All seven people are outside of the aircraft. That's the term the FAA used. That doesn't tell us much about their condition, of course. But the fact they're all out, obviously, would be probably a good sign at this juncture.

As you can see, on Pier 11 there, on the east side of Manhattan, the New York Fire Department, the New York Police Department, the Coast Guard, very well represented as the rescue operation continues.

CNN's Kathleen Koch has been in touch with her sources at the FAA.

Kathleen, what do you know?

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Miles, I'm talking to both the FAA, NTSB, other government transportation officials. And the additional new information that we've gotten is encouraging, obviously, to the families of anyone who was on board this helicopter, and that is, that at this point, there are no life-threatening injuries reported.

Now, for that reason, the NTSB is still trying to decide whether or not it will send investigators from Washington or whether they will handle this crash from their New Jersey office, which is a possibility when it's a small, regional accident that doesn't involve any loss of life, like this one -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right. So just to help people understand that, the NTSB has what's call a go team. And these people are based in Washington. They've got a bag packed, and if there's a serious incident, they're on their way. This one may not rise to that level, Kathleen?

KOCH: Correct. And again, obviously the loved ones of those on board are very happy in that case. And again, the good word from the FAA, also earlier, a few minutes ago, is that they say there were seven people on board this helicopter. All of them are off the helicopter. And again, we're hearing from other transportation officials at this point no life-threatening injuries.

O'BRIEN: All right. So that's -- that's all very good news. No life-threatening injuries, everybody out, seven people aboard. The helicopter upside down right now, but I'm going to take a wild guess that everybody got out before it was upended, probably in the choppy currents of the East River there in Manhattan.

So, once again, this -- what looks like a very scary incident may end up being just quite a harrowing tale to tell for seven people, including, certainly, the pilot, who had to contend with an engine out over the East River. But those inflatable pontoons might very well have saved the day here in New York City as that rescue operation continues.

And I guess now we can safely say, since the seven are safe and sound, and no life-threatening injuries, we'll call this a salvage operation and investigation by the National Transportation Safety Board and others, as they try to figure out what happened in this case.

All right. We have one of the associate medical directors of the New York downtown hospital. I missed his name. Somebody -- Antonio Dajer.

Are you with us, now?

DR. ANTONIO DAJER, NY DOWNTOWN HOSPITAL: Yes, man.

O'BRIEN: Is it doctor or mister?

DAJER: Doctor.

O'BRIEN: OK. Dr. Dajer, can you just tell us, did you receive any people who were onboard this helicopter this afternoon?

DAJER: We received two patients so far.

O'BRIEN: How are they doing?

DAJER: They're doing fine. Apparently fell into the water, some exposure to gasoline fumes and sprayed with some high octane helicopter fuel. But otherwise, they're OK.

O'BRIEN: OK. And did they tell you much about the story? Were they able to tell you what happened?

DAJER: Best we can tell from paramedics on the scene and from the passengers is the helicopter was lifting off apparently very quickly, clipped something that damaged the rotor, and immediately the pilot lost control and pitched into the water.

O'BRIEN: OK. So it was on takeoff and the rotor was damaged. The rotor, which keeps it from spinning around like a top. And very quickly ended up in the drink? That's what you're hearing?

DAJER: That's what we've heard so far, yes.

O'BRIEN: All right. And was it a sightseeing mission of some kind, or do you know?

DAJER: I can say that some of our patients have foreign accents, so I assume it was a sightseeing helicopter. But I can't confirm that.

O'BRIEN: OK. You haven't asked that question necessarily yet. DAJER: It sounds like they were -- it looks like they were tourists visiting New York City.

O'BRIEN: OK. And basically, your understanding is that all of them are in similar condition, which is to say good condition?

DAJER: Yes. And the paramedics on the scene have relayed that they saw no serious injuries or no evidence of serious trauma. So hopefully everybody will be fine.

O'BRIEN: OK. Boy, close call.

DAJER: Very close call.

O'BRIEN: And interesting story to bring back home on their trip.

DAJER: Yes.

O'BRIEN: My trip to Manhattan.

DAJER: That's right. From the water up.

O'BRIEN: Exactly. Dr. Antonio Dajer, thank you very much. We appreciate that.

And we're glad to hear that we're able to tell you that everybody's safe and sound. And a takeoff that didn't go so well on lower Manhattan there, presumably some tourists, maybe a rotor blade clipped, the next thing you know, they're in the East River with quite a story to tell.

We're going to shift gears now and tell you about some other things going on in the world.

In Aruba, a group of men being held in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway considerably smaller today. Two men who spent more than a week in police custody are now free.

Holloway's mother has said she believes they had nothing to do with her daughter's vanishing. But she's not saying that about the other three men that are still in custody.

CNN's John Zarrella joins us live now from Palm Beach, Aruba, with the latest -- John.

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Miles, that's exactly right. The two security guards who were arrested on the 5th of June, who worked at a nearby hotel, were released last night.

Somewhat of a surprise, because they were supposed to have a hearing today, where this possible release would be discussed. But rather than that, late last night, almost midnight here, the authorities, the prosecutors, went ahead and released the two security guards. They had maintained from the very beginning that they were innocent, that they had never seen the girl, had never come in contact with Natalee Holloway. Now, the other three men who are still in -- in police custody and are continuing to be questioned, three young men, they were the ones who originally had fingered the security guards, saying that somebody who looked like a security guard, they said, was last seen with Natalee Holloway. Well, while in prison, while in jail, one of the security guards was just one cell away from one of the two Surinamese youths who were being questioned, and the security guard told us a little while ago that the Surinamese youth admitted to him in a cell-to-cell conversation that he had lied about the security guard's involvement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICKEY JOHN, SECURITY GUARD: He apologized to me. He did apologize. He told me that he was sorry because -- because of his story, we've been held in custody. If he had told the truth from the very start, we would have never been in this mess.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZARRELLA: Now, one Dutch youth and the two Surinamese youths are still being held, are still being questioned. And authorities are telling us today that they have been formally accused with murder, manslaughter and the kidnapping with fatal results. But be very careful there, because that's the same thing that the two security guards were originally accused of.

Formal accusation is not a charge. But under Dutch law, they are formally accused, which means they are basically suspects in the case -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: John, give us a sense of what you can see about how well this investigation is meshing between the Aruban authorities, and I know there's some people there, representatives of the FBI, for example. And it's unclear right now how tightly they're working.

ZARRELLA: Well, the FBI is really here in more of an observing role and a consulting role. If evidence is found that the Aruban authorities want to have analyzed -- for example, they thought there might be some blood found in a Honda. They had the FBI send that to Quantico, to the FBI laboratories, where it was analyzed. It turned up it was not blood at all.

So the FBI is here pretty much in an observing role, answering questions and handling any forensics that may need to be done. But the Aruban authorities are, for the most part, in complete control of this investigation.

And now it appears pretty clearly that it is focused on these three young individuals who were apparently the last three to see Natalee Holloway. They were the ones who supposedly left this bar, Carlos 'N Charlie's here, with Natalee Holloway.

O'BRIEN: John Zarrella, on the island of Aruba. Thank you very much. Appreciate that.

Let's talk about that FBI agent issue. How much can they, how much are they allowed to do?

Lots of questions. John just alluded to some of the issues there. We'll talk about it with a former FBI agent a little later in the program.

Well, a day of fun and fantasy at a Florida theme park turns tragic. A young boy dies after taking an imaginary trip into space. The popular thrill ride at Disney's Epcot Center is up and running again now.

Reporter Josh Einiger of our affiliate WFTV is there.

JOSH EINIGER, REPORTER, WFTV: Disney has now reopened the ride they call Mission: Space here at Epcot Center, deeming it safe for riders less than 24 hours after a family vacation turned tragic. Now, this all happened yesterday at about 3:15 in the afternoon.

A 4-year-old boy traveling on the ride with his mother and older sister. The ride ended, and the mother was seen carrying the boy off of the ride, emotional over the fact that he was not breathing. They performed CPR, called 911, and took him to the hospital, but doctors pronounced him dead less than an hour and a half after that.

At this point, investigators have launched a death investigation into this case.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRYSTAL CANDY, ORANGE COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPT.: Yesterday, they interviewed family. They also interviewed the employees who were there at the time. You know, at this point, the boy has no known medical problems. And so it's going to be up to the medical examiner to determine exactly why this child died.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

EINIGER: Investigators say the boy named Daudi Bamuwamye did meet the minimum height requirement on the ride of 44 inches. He had no pre-existing medical conditions, and he also -- they found there was nothing wrong with the ride itself.

That is why this investigation is ongoing. They say it's now up to the medical examiner to determine for sure the cause of death.

For now, reporting from Orlando, I'm Josh Einiger, CNN.

O'BRIEN: As Josh pointed out to us, the Mission: Space ride at Epcot Center is something that -- well, it's not for the faint of heart. Take a look at this animation which was produced by the company that actually engineered it for Disney.

What this shows is sort of the internal guts of Mission: Space. And as you can see, it's a giant centrifuge, and each of those little pods contains some of the passengers. And it's designed to spin people, give them a sense of High-G, as well -- which means feeling many, many times your own weight -- in this case, two-and-a-half times your own weight.

To put that in perspective, shuttle astronauts feel about 3Gs, or three times your own weight. So this is a pretty rough ride.

And in addition, the -- you'll notice those little cabs on the centrifuge as it spins around there. They also have the ability to pivot along the -- well, space people call it the X and Y axis. It doesn't really matter, but the pivots allows people to get the sensation also of picking up speed, of slowing down, and even, you know, sort of a brief spurt -- you can see how it goes up and down there -- a brief spurt of what appears to be weightlessness.

So the idea is to give people the sensation of taking a ride into space, on to Mars and so forth. And that is the way it works, schematically, at least. Nevertheless, people are advised if they have problems with their heart or back, or if they're just too small, not to go on that particular ride.

CNN's John Zarrella back in Aruba.

We have developments to report there, John?

ZARRELLA: We sure do, Miles. Now, what we can say is that right now, our people down by the Marriott hotel are seeing what appears to be an investigation by authorities. They have the entire area cordoned off about 200 yards up the beach from the Marriott, by the water, in the beach area.

They are apparently searching that area. That is, for the most part, what we know. But, to bring that into full context, what we have been hearing for the last 24 hours or so is that the two Surinamese youths who were two of the three in custody were saying that they had dropped Natalee Holloway off near the Marriott, and that they had dropped her off with the boy from Holland.

And so there may be reason then, clearly, for police to be searching that particular area of the beach. Now, it may well be -- you would assume that that whole area has been combed on many occasions up to now. But perhaps they have some new information now that would have led them out there.

But our people there are saying that a couple hundred yards up from the Marriott hotel, which is just a few blocks from where we are here, at the Holiday Inn, is where this search is now under way. A lot of police cars down by the water, and a lot of people down by the water and along the beach area -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Boy, I've got to admit, I'm a little surprised, John, that this area hadn't been searched. You said it might have been or could have been. There's potentially some new information here, is what we're talking about.

ZARRELLA: Yes. Clearly, this whole area was searched and combed right after the disappearance and within the first few days. They did the massive search of this whole area. So unless some detail has come out in the interrogation of these three young men that would have led the authorities to then go specifically to this area, you know, near the Marriott hotel, which, again, is in agreement with what we are being told the Surinamese youths, young men, have been saying about where they dropped Natalee Holloway off.

O'BRIEN: Of course it's been two weeks now. And so whatever trail might there be is going to be pretty cold.

ZARRELLA: Yes, clearly. And you would certainly suspect that any evidence that might be down by the water or in the water after two weeks, somebody, you know, in a big area like this, a huge tourist area, would have seen something, even if it wasn't discovered during the search.

So, you know, it is somewhat curious as to what they might be looking for right now, down by the water. But that's what we know, that there is some sort of activity, some sort of a search by Aruban authorities going on now within a couple hundred yards of the Marriott hotel, along the beach area -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: And John, do you know off hand if divers are a part of this search or have been a part of this search to this point?

ZARRELLA: Don't know, don't have any indication that divers have been used up to this point. And our people, from what they can see in the limited access that they have so far to the area, are just seeing people along the beach area and along the shoreline. No indication there might be a boat in the area with divers in the vicinity. But we will certainly check into that and see if we can get that information as well.

O'BRIEN: All right. CNN's John Zarrella. It sounds like you have some work to do there in Palm Beach, Aruba.

Appreciate it. Keep us posted as soon as you hear anything on that story, now two weeks old, the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

Well, what did Kofi Annan know and when did he know it? New information about the investigation into the oil-for-food scandal at the United Nations straight ahead for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COOKE: There's not going to be any parades for Robert coming home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: A U.S. Army sergeant deserted his post and defected to North Korea. Forty years later, time to come home. We'll take you to his home town just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) O'BRIEN: Surprising developments in the U.N. Oil-for-Food scandal today. A new memo raising urgent questions about U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan. It seems to contradict earlier findings that had cleared him of any wrongdoing.

Our senior U.N. Correspondent Richard Roth has been following the story all along -- Richard.

RICHARD ROTH, CNN SR. U.N. CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I think it's too soon to say, Miles, whether something has been proven either way based upon this memo, which the Swiss-based company Cotecna says was accidentally discovered in their files now that they're doing major audits. Cotecna was a company which won a $10 million contract to authenticate humanitarian goods going into Iraq before the war.

The question that has been posed and has been investigated, and continues to be investigated, is, did Secretary-General Annan know of Cotecna's interest in winning this contract and influence that process? Now a memo has turned up which has a former vice president of that Swiss company, Michael Wilson, writing, according to the e- mail that we have obtained -- in this e-mail, Wilson writes back to his superiors after a discussion in France, he says -- with the secretary-general and his entourage -- he says, "We had brief discussions with Kofi Annan and his entourage." And later in the e- mail, "We could count on their support."

About a week after this, Cotecna did indeed win the lucrative contract. The spokesman for Kofi Annan was peppered with questions today about what Kofi Annan knew.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRED ECKHARD, U.N. SPOKESMAN: The views attributed to him in this e-mail by Michael Wilson that somehow the secretary would be fully supportive, or whatever he said in his e-mail, of Cotecna's efforts to get this contract, that could not be -- that could not have come from the secretary-general because he had no knowledge that Cotecna was a contender for that contract.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: The spokesman says Secretary-General Kofi Annan, who's in Paris, had no record of any such exchange with Wilson. Now, Wilson is a childhood friend of Kojo Annan, the man you're looking at now, the son of the secretary-general.

Wilson is from Ghana, and in the Ghanaian tradition, according to Paul Volcker's report, the man who's also investigating this, Wilson considered Annan like an uncle. Kojo Annan has not exactly been cooperating in full with the Volcker panel and other congressional branches of the U.S. government looking into this matter.

The U.N. insists there was no quid pro quo. They stand by that. This matter is still being investigated. The Volcker committee, Miles, has been given that e-mail, plus the Annan records of who exactly he met with in Paris back in 1998. O'BRIEN: So for the Volcker committee the case isn't closed, they will continue investigating?

ROTH: They have always been continuing to investigate. They've got a major report coming up in the summer, and they never really closed the case on anyone in this matter.

O'BRIEN: All right. Richard Roth, thank you very much.

The disappearance into -- excuse me, the investigation into the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. The FBI in Aruba. And as we know right now, there's some sort of search going on right now on the beach in front of the Marriott hotel.

Is the FBI involved with that? We'll talk with a former FBI investigator about how the FBI operates in these situations outside the shores of the United States.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: A homecoming 40 years in the making. The last time Charles Jenkins was in the U.S., he was in his mid-20s, in the Army, heading for duty in South Korea. And then he deserted.

He wasn't heard from until last year. And he says all he wants is a quiet reunion with his ailing mother in North Carolina.

Debra Morgan with our affiliate WRAL take us to his home town.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOKE: I've saved picture of my friend Rob when he was in the army.

DEBRA MORGAN, REPORTER, WRAL (voice-over): The man the world knows as Charles Jenkins Michael Cooke knows as Robert, a boy he grew up with in Rich Square.

COOKE: And a lot of our favorite pastimes was playing like we were soldiers, fighting the enemy, which was the communists.

MORGAN: Which is why Cooke found this headline in the "News & Observer" back in 1965 so hard to believe.

COOKE: Defection confirmed for (INAUDIBLE). And I remember the day I was away at school, picking that newspaper up and reading it on the way back to my room, and just unbelievable.

MORGAN: Cooke kept in touch with Jenkins during his time in the Army and collected memorabilia now stored in a museum. They've talked on the phone three times since Jenkins moved to Japan after his court- martial for desertion, but he has yet to ask the big question.

COOKE: I haven't asked him anything heavy or serious, you know, like, "Why did you do it? Why did you do it, Rob?"

MORGAN: It's a question people in Rich Square would like an answer to as well. A Japanese television crew is camped outside Jenkins' boyhood home, hoping to get a glimpse of him. It's been more than 40 years since he left this small town, and many here would rather he never come back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't want him to be a hero. I want him to be what he was. He was a coward.

MORGAN: Cooke knows he may be one of few people who wants to see his old friend.

COOKE: There are not going to be any parades for Robert coming home. He's not going to be honored as a hero.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: All right. And there are some pictures we got recently. This is Charles Jenkins arriving on U.S. soil, Dulles Airport, late this morning, on his way to that homecoming with his ailing mother and in his hometown of North Carolina, where there is divided opinion over what he did some 40 years ago on the Korean peninsula. Back with more in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired June 14, 2005 - 13:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, HOST: Disney World death. A 4-year-old dies after a thrill ride at Epcot. We're live from Orlando.
Not guilty. What's next for Michael Jackson? A top record producer with some advice.

Missing teen mystery. Two freed security guards reveal what they heard from the other men in custody.

From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Miles O'Brien. Kyra Phillips is off. We're also expecting a live Pentagon briefing just a few minutes from now. CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.

It is a ride so intense that it comes with a warning. Prospective thrill-seekers are advised to be in good health and free from high blood pressure, heart, back, or neck problems, among other things. And now one child's ride on Walt Disney World's Mission: Space has turned deadly.

Josh Einiger from our affiliate, WFTV, joins us now from Orlando with the latest -- Josh.

JOSH EINIGER, WFTV CORRESPONDENT: Well, Miles, at the start of business this morning, Disney decided to reopen the ride here at Epcot center known as Mission: Space, deeming it safe for riders, less than 24 hours after a family vacation turned to tragedy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

EINIGER: At the Mission: Space attraction, the 3:15 p.m. ride had just ended. Disney guests were filing onto the platform when a woman rushed up to an employee, her young son in her arms.

CRYSTAL CANDY, ORANGE COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: They together laid him on a nearby bench and the Disney employee started performing CPR. And also, another Disney employee called 911.

EINIGER: But 4-year-old Daudi Bamuwamye never woke up. An hour and a half later, doctors at Celebration Hospital pronounced him dead. The Orange County Sheriff's Office launched an investigation.

CANDY: Yesterday, they interviewed family. They also interviewed the employees who were there at the time. You know, at this point, the boy has no known medical problems. And so it's going to be up to the medical examiner to determine exactly why this child died.

EINIGER: Detectives say Daudi met the minimum height requirement of 34 inches and have found nothing obviously wrong with the ride.

CANDY: At this point, it's a mystery. And that's why we have to wait for the medical examiner.

EINIGER: An environment so stressful on the body, people with heart conditions are urged not to take part. Disney refuse to comment how many of its staff are trained in things like CPR, saying, only, quote, "We are providing support to the family and are doing everything we can to help them during this difficult time."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

EINIGER: Investigators say it could be several weeks now before they determine for sure how Daudi died.

Now, by the way, this may be the first fatality associated with Mission: Space, but it is far from the first time someone has been hospitalized. Last year in eight months, six different people were treated for cardiac conditions -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right, Josh. It's a pretty rigorous ride, 2 1/2 G's. They have a few warnings out there. But beyond that, what does Disney do to try to discourage people who might not be up to it?

EINIGER: You know, when you walk in and the video you saw there, the promotional video that you saw there from Disney, you don't see these, but you see them when you stand in line. There are signs everywhere saying if you have a heart condition, if you are pregnant, if you are under 44 inches tall. A very young kid, younger than the 4-year-old who died yesterday, they strongly urge you not to ride -- Mile.

O'BRIEN: Josh Einiger in Orlando, thank you very much.

Jurors in the Michael Jackson case say they hope it's something that will never happen in Neverland again: the singer sharing his bed with young boys. The jury is speaking out, a day after acquitting Jackson on all counts in his child molestation trial. Jackson's attorney is also predicting a behavior change.

CNN's Ted Rowlands joins us now live from Los Olivos, California, near Jackson's ranch.

Ted, you were with this trial from the very beginning. Let's start about -- let's talk, first of all, about what's going on right now at the ranch. I realize you're on the outskirts, but what have you been able to see?

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this morning, not much action. We're right outside the gates here at Neverland. Michael Jackson's father, Joe Jackson, left a few moments ago, rolled down his window and said something bad about one of the reporters that's been covering this case and sped off in his car. That's been about it. The private security threatened to arrest all media if they didn't get off the property. So that's where we are. People anticipated that there could be some sort of statement. But nothing is planned at this point. So Michael Jackson, presumably, resting inside his private residence at his ranch.

O'BRIEN: All right. Tell me, Ted, honestly, in your gut, did you expect not guilty on all 10 counts?

ROWLANDS: Well, honestly in my gut, I didn't know what to expect. Clearly, it could have gone either way. Both sides presented compelling closing arguments, depending on which way you saw the evidence. They were clearly different. Either you believed this young man or you didn't. And you thought Michael Jackson was a victim. He was either a monster or a victim.

And it made sense, the jury's verdict. They came back not guilty. And then they explained their decision, and they have explained it during interviews. And it makes sense.

I would not have been surprised it if would have gone either way. It was clearly one of those situations where anything could have happened, depending on which way this jury was bent in terms of what they believed and what they didn't believe.

O'BRIEN: And that's the way I think many of us felt. But that would sort of lead you to the conclusion the jury would be a little more split. This was a fairly -- it was a strong statement. And really what it was a statement about their feelings about the credibility of the victim and really, probably more specifically, the victim's mother.

ROWLANDS: They analyzed the testimony at the trial. That's what they were supposed to do. And one of the jury instructions that really stand out with all jurors is if there are two stories that are both compelling and both believable, you have to go with the one that points towards innocence.

So the two stories concerning the victim, was he not truthful? Well, he had some inconsistencies on the stand. Talking about the mother, did she have a history of making things up? They thought yes. Was she inconsistent? They thought yes.

When you're given that, and you're a juror that's deciding the fate of somebody, and it is a he said/he said, it's completely conceivable and believable that you would go and follow this instruction to point towards innocence.

So the verdict really wasn't a surprise. They did their job, and they explained it well. They went through the evidence. They took their time with it. And I was very impressed by the jury and the way they worked together and -- and they came up with this not guilty verdict, in the way that they did. They didn't just walk in and show a hand and say, "Oh, we don't believe her." They went through the evidence, and that's what they came up with. O'BRIEN: All right. And final thought here, Michael Jackson, one of his web sites, MJJSource.com. There you see it right there, and when you hit on this thing, you get a little introduction. And it basically compares yesterday, June 3, 2005, to some very momentous days in history, among them, the release of Nelson Mandela from prison in South Africa.

I mean, what does that tell you about Michael Jackson and his potential narcissism?

ROWLANDS: Well, you know, I don't think Michael Jackson is up there typing up his web page. I think somebody is doing that.

The -- the feeling around here -- and there are some fans that have been here all night -- is if you're -- if you're one of these people that is a fan of Michael Jackson, that web page makes perfect sense. And that is who the audience is there.

Clearly, you know, I mean it is what it is. I would venture to say that Michael Jackson himself did not create that web page. Probably one of his supporters and the people that are working with him. But it is what it is.

O'BRIEN: He probably doesn't have any problems with it either.

All right, Ted Rowlands. Yes. The trial's over. You're still covering it, Ted. I'm sorry; it won't be long, I think, before you get back to some normalcy in your life. Thank you very much; appreciate it.

ROWLANDS: Thanks, Miles.

O'BRIEN: It's been less than 24 hours since the verdict since the verdict, and Michael Jackson may already have a new gig lined up. Promoters for the series of Live 8 concerts scheduled for next month reportedly say they'd consider adding him to the bill.

So is Michael Jackson on his way to a career comeback?

CNN pop culture correspondent Toure takes a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOURE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): His album "Thriller" is still the planet's best-selling record ever, even though it's more than 20 years old. He was the first black artist played on MTV. Can Michael Jackson get back to being a mega icon or has he left his career behind on the courthouse steps?

Some in the record business believe MJ can be reinvented. Among them, the chairman of Island Def Jam Music, L.A. Reid.

L.A. REID, CHAIRMAN, ISLAND DEF JAM MUSIC: I believe Michael can absolutely come back. He can absolutely come back. And be phenomenal. TOURE: Reid crafted Mariah Carey's recent comeback, and last year he helped Outkast and Usher reach new career highs. Reid gave us the strategy he'd employ if Jackson was his artist.

REID: There's been some damage done. That's the reality of it. I hated saying that. That was painful, but I had to say it.

TOURE: So where to begin? Some say he should leave the country. How about that?

REID: Sound like he's running, and he doesn't have to. You are Michael Jackson. But understand what that means. That means that you're a superstar. You're a legend. I would -- I would honestly start with him touring and getting out and performing for people and really reminding people that he's one of the greats.

TOURE (on camera): Big arenas or more intimate venues?

REID: Intimate. Keep it small.

TOURE (voice-over): After Jackson finishes his reach out to the people tour, Reid advises he change his address.

REID: Absolutely move out of Neverland and move to New York City, you know, and start to really feel some of the concrete. Feel some of the grind, you know?

And I'm not saying become regular, because it's impossible. It's a pipe dream to ever see Michael Jackson just walking up and down the street. But feel it. Go out to the restaurants. Go out and hang, you know. Go to the club and listen to some music.

Guess what, Michael is bordering on normal. You know?

TOURE (on camera): That has to be the headline, "Oh, my God, he's so normal."

REID: He's normal.

TOURE (voice-over): And if Jackson makes a comeback album, this image maker wants it to be very personal.

REID: I would go emotional. I would not go dancy-dancy, try to be too cool, try to be too young, try to be too hip. I would go emotional and try to touch the heart with music.

TOURE: And if Jackson likes Reid's plan, he's free to take him up on it.

(on camera) He sees this piece and calls you: "Let's do a deal." Would you sign him?

REID: I would absolutely sign Michael. Every great artist is one song, one great song, away from being back.

TOURE (voice-over): Toure, CNN, New York. (END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Americans love a comeback, don't they? Tonight on CNN, the man who prosecuted the singer, Santa Barbara D.A. Tom Sneddon. He'll be a guest on "PAULA ZAHN NOW," 8 p.m. Eastern. You'll want to hear that interview.

And at 9:00, Jackson's lead defense attorney, Thomas Mesereau, appears on "LARRY KING LIVE." It would be great to have them on the same show, wouldn't it? Anyway.

Two men connected with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway are now free, and the focus is intensifying on three men who remain in custody. CNN's John Zarrella is in Palm Beach, Aruba.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is unclear whether these latest development will bring authorities any closer to solving the mystery surrounding the disappearance of Natalee, but certainly, it is great relief for two security guard who worked at a nearby hotel.

We had been fully expecting that there would be a hearing today to discuss whether they would be released. But rather than that happening, late last night, authorities decided to go ahead and release the two security guards.

They have maintained since their arrest on June 5 that they did not know the girl, had not seen the girl, and had nothing to do with her disappearance.

Now, they were initially fingered by three young boys, two Surinamese boys and one Dutch boy. Those three boys remain in custody here on the island. And now that the security guards have at least been cleared, the focus now shifts to these three boys.

Now it -- we believe that, formally accused now, the three boys, of murder, manslaughter and the kidnapping with fatal results of Natalee Holloway. But, remember, the formally accused does not mean they are charged. The security guards were never charged either. In fact, no one has been charged in this case.

Now while all this is happening, family members continue to search with volunteers around the island, looking for Natalee Holloway. But again, still no signs of the missing 18-year-old.

John Zarrella, CNN, Palm Beach Aruba.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN (voice-over): Gitmo under fire, deadly insurgent attacks in Iraq. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's live briefing from the Pentagon moments away.

Later on LIVE FROM, an American Army sergeant who deserted to North Korea 40 years ago comes home for the first time.

MICHAEL COOKE, CHARLES JENKINS' BOYHOOD FRIEND: There's not going to be any parades.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was a coward.

O'BRIEN: Ahead on LIVE FROM...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He pushed me in the car.

O'BRIEN: Grabbed at her school bus stop, saved by quick thinking and text messaging.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECY. OF DEFENSE: ... prosecuting terrorists after they strike was an inadequate approach, particularly given the lethal threats posed by violent extremists.

During the operations since September 11th, the military has apprehended thousands of enemy combatants, and several hundred were determined to be particularly dangerous and valuable from an intelligence perspective.

There was no existing set of procedures or facilities to detain these enemies in Afghanistan or elsewhere. After extensive discussions with his senior advisers, the president decided that they were not entitled to formal prisoner-of-war status under the Geneva Conventions and that they were certainly not criminal defendants in the traditional law enforcement sense.

Indeed, faced with this new situation, the president ordered that detained combatants be treated humanely under the laws of war. The detention facility at Guantanamo Bay was established for the simple reason that the United States needed a safe and secure location to detain and interrogate enemy combatants. It was the best option available.

The Department of Defense, working through the National Security Council interagency process, established procedures that would provide appropriate legal process to these detainees, procedures that go beyond what is required even under the Geneva Conventions. These included combatant status review tribunals to confirm that, in fact, each individual is, in fact, an unlawful enemy combatant.

Every detainee currently at Guantanamo has received such a hearing. As a result, some 38 individuals were released.

Military commissions, trials with full representation by defense counsel, for those suspected of committing war crimes. The commissions have been temporarily suspended, pending further review by the U.S. federal court system.

RUMSFELD: And third, administrative review boards that annually assess the remaining potential threat and intelligence value represented by each detainee. These boards are designed to re-examine detainees regularly, in order to identify detainees who can be released.

Our goal as a country is to detain as few people as is possible and is safe. We prefer to return them to their countries of origin, if the country is capable and willing to manage them in an appropriate way.

In some countries -- Iraq and Afghanistan -- we have begun a process of trying to help them develop the proper facilities and the proper trained forces to manage these detainees.

Other countries have not satisfied the U.S. government as yet that they will treat their nationals humanely, were this to be transferred to their countries. Still others don't have laws that permit them to detain individuals of this sort and they're in the process of passing such laws.

One of these detained terrorist at Guantanamo is a man called Mohamed al-Kahtani, believed to be the 20th hijacker on September 11th. He has direct ties to Al Qaida's top leadership, including Osama bin Laden.

While at Guantanamo, Kahtani and other detainees have provided valuable information, including insights into Al Qaida planning for September 11th, including recruiting and logistics, the identities and detailed information of 20 of Osama bin Laden's bodyguards, information leading to the capture of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the architect of the September 11th attacks, and information allowing foreign police to detain 22 suspected terrorists plotting attacks earlier this year.

Detainees are sent to Guantanamo only after a proper screening process that identifies these prisoners who pose a threat to the United States or who have intelligence value. The kind of people held at Guantanamo include terrorist trainers, bombmakers, extremists recruiters and financiers, bodyguards of Osama bin Laden and would-be suicide bombers. They're not common car thieves; they're believed to be determined killers.

RUMSFELD: Arguably, no detention facility in the history of warfare has been more transparent or received more scrutiny than Guantanamo.

Last year, the department declassified highly sensitive memoranda on interrogation techniques. Unfortunately, they were documents that are useful to terrorist operatives. And we posted them on the Internet specifically to set the record straight about U.S. policies and practices.

There have been nearly 400 separate media visits to Guantanamo Bay by more than 1,000 journalists. Additionally, some 180 congressional representatives have visited the facility.

We provide continuous access to the International Committee of the Red Cross, whose representatives meet privately with the detainees.

Allegations of abuse at Guantanamo Bay, as at any other U.S. military facility, have been thoroughly investigated. Any wrongdoers are being held accountable.

The U.S. military has instituted numerous reforms of the conduct of detainee operations, with a renewed emphasis on standards and training.

The U.S. military has also gone to unprecedented lengths to respect the religious sensibilities of these enemies of civil society, including the issuance of detailed regulations governing the handling of the Koran and arranging schedules for detainees around the five daily calls for prayer required by the Muslim faith.

RUMSFELD: In fact, at Guantanamo, the military spends more per meal for detainees to meet their religious dietary requirements than it spends for rations for U.S. troops.

Since September 11th, the military has released tens of thousands of detainees, including some 200 from Guantanamo.

Regrettably, we now know that some of those detainees that were released from Guantanamo have again taken up arms against the United States and our allies and were again attempting to kill innocent men, women and children.

The U.S. government will continue to transfer others to their countries of origin after negotiating appropriate agreements to ensure their humane treatment.

The United States government, let alone the U.S. military, does not want to be in the position of holding suspected terrorists any longer than is absolutely necessary.

But as long as there remains a need to keep terrorists from striking again, a facility will continue to be needed.

The U.S. taxpayers have invested over $100 million in military construction in the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay. And it is spending something like an average of $90 million to $95 million a year to operate that facility to its highest standards.

The real problem is not Guantanamo Bay. The problem is that, to a large extent, we are in unexplored territory with this unconventional and complex struggle against extremism. Traditional doctrines covering criminals and military prisoners do not apply well enough.

As the president has said, we are always looking for ways to improve our procedures. And, of course, we have been looking for better suggestions as to how to manage detainees who pose a lethal threat to the civilized world. And we have already implemented dozens of reforms.

Finally, today is the 230th birthday of the United States Army. RUMSFELD: From this republic's earliest days the American people have depended on our soldiers to protect our freedoms and to stand against those who seek to take our freedoms away.

Theirs is a proud history.

So I want to wish the Army a happy birthday and extend my appreciation to all those who serve in the United States Army around the world and the appreciation of a grateful nation.

General Pace?

GENERAL PETER PACE, VICE CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: Thank you, Mr. Secretary.

I would like to join with the secretary in wishing all the Army family a very, very happy 230th birthday, not only the 1 million men and women who serve on active, Guard and Reserve duty, but especially the million families that are out there who support in a very strong, silent way their soldier. Our country is fortunate to have them all.

Happy birthday.

RUMSFELD: Charlie?

QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, you mentioned today is the Army's birthday. The Army has failed to meet its recruiting goals four months in a row now, and both the Army Reserve and National Guard are behind in their recruiting goals thus far this year.

Is the Army in a recruiting crisis? And is the viability, in fact, of the volunteer U.S. military threatened here?

PACE: I think the Army is taking the right leadership approach to the problems they've had the last couple of months in meeting their recruiting goals.

First of all, we should make note of the fact that they're looking for almost 8,000 more soldiers this year than they were last year because of our desire to grow the Army so it can transform itself and then go back down to its prewar size. But there is an increased number there.

The Army has allocated another 3,000 recruiters and a good deal of leadership time to train those recruiters and getting out to our communities.

Interestingly, those who serve in the Army today who are currently on active duty are reenlisting at historic numbers.

PACE: We have had the goals for reenlistment exceeded, especially by those units who have served in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Why? Because those soldiers have had the opportunity to serve the country the way they volunteered to do. They get it. They understand the tremendous positive impact they're having. So from the standpoint of retention, we're doing very, very well.

From the standpoint of new recruiting, we need to work harder to get the Army message out to our young men and women who are prospective volunteers. And as a country we need to encourage our young people to serve this country in a time of need.

QUESTION: Well, I guess I would ask both of you gentlemen again, the Army has had additional recruiters for almost four months now. And, again, they've fallen short four months in a row. Is there a crisis in Army recruiting, Mr. Secretary?

RUMSFELD: Well, it takes time for these things to take. In other words, you see the indications of a fall-off.

You have to begin with this principle: that we're increasing the size of the Army, so the goals are higher. Therefore, the infrastructure to achieve the goals were lower than they would need to be to achieve the desired goals.

Second, the normal pool you draw from is the people who are coming out, in many instances, for the Guard and the Reserve. And, of course, that pool's down, because more people are being retained on active duty.

I think that General Pace answered the question properly and correctly. And obviously, the Army is renewing their efforts to see that they increase and come up -- the Navy's fine, the Air Force is fine, the Marines are fine and the Army has fallen short.

QUESTION: Neither of you, again, have said whether or not this is a crisis for the Army.

RUMSFELD: Well, because that's a journalist word. It's a headline word.

We're trying to accurately describe precisely what's taking place. And that's what we've done, rather than offer a headline like that for you.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: ... seems to be a major problem.

RUMSFELD: I'm sorry, Charlie.

Well, that's why they've increased recruiters, that's why they've increased their advertising budgets, that's why they've increased their efforts, is because the numbers are short of their increased goal.

QUESTION: Well, can you accurately describe precisely what you're going to do at the end of the year if the Army is not able to meet its goal of 80,000 troops, which every indication is at this point they're not going to be able to do, given the trend line? PACE: There's a difference between what the Army wants to send to recruit training this year and the numbers of new personnel they want to access into their delayed entry program to be able to train them and get them ready to go to next year.

So the Army has capacity in its delayed entry program pool right now to shift enough people into this year to cover this year's numbers if needed.

The real concern is that longer term, as you deplete some of your pool that you have waiting to go in the out-months, that that pool becomes smaller and smaller, and that then becomes a problem.

The Army has taken the leadership decisions they need to make to get the extra recruiters out there. It does take time.

I was on recruiting duty for three years in Buffalo, New York, in 1980 to 1983. It takes time, it takes anywhere from four to six months for a new recruiter, new Sergeant Pace to come on to duty, get trained up and become effective in talking to prospective applicants.

So it will take some time. But the Army has made the right decisions and they're putting the resources toward it.

RUMSFELD: There are other things that are being done in answer to your question.

One is that we are, as you know, under the new National Security Personnel System, moving people who are military people serving in civilian functions out of civilian functions and replacing them with civilians.

That number is not trivial. This has involved already some 10,000 as I recall, and the total universe that one can look at is 200,000 to 300,000, not one service, all services.

RUMSFELD: I wouldn't want to leave the impression that it would be desirable to take that large a number out, but it's a pool of people that can be accessed.

The second thing we're doing is, for many months now, as you know, the Navy and the Air Force have been actually pulling down some numbers, and we have been working with personnel in the Air Force and in the Navy to see if some of the individuals needed for the Army might come from there.

Third, what we've done is we've taken some of the functions that Army people perform where we've had, because of malorganization in the Army, a shortage of certain skill sets. We've been training not only Army people to learn those skill sets, but we've been training some Air Force and Navy people to fulfill those functions by giving them that training.

So there are a variety of things under way, that have been under way for some time to deal with the problem. QUESTION: Can we go back to Guantanamo just for a moment? With your five-minute, I guess, soliloquy about Gitmo, do we take that now as the definitive administration policy? Because the president and the White House press secretary left the door slightly ajar on Guantanamo, saying all options are on the table.

RUMSFELD: Always go with the president.

QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, on that line, it costs a lot of money to keep people at Guantanamo -- flying lawyers in and out...

RUMSFELD: Absolutely.

QUESTION: ... and there appears to be no legal advantage any longer, since the people there have recourse to the U.S. federal courts.

What's the advantage of keeping people in Guantanamo over, say, Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, or another place where we've got infrastructure?

RUMSFELD: I don't know any place where we have infrastructure that's appropriate for that sizable group of people.

The investment's been made.

The second thing, as you know, I'm not a lawyer, but my recollection is that, if you ask the lawyer the question you've just asked they would say that there are some things that are similar, but other things that are dissimilar as between location in the United States versus location at Guantanamo.

And Larry Di Rita can get those precise legal distinctions for you.

And, of course, these things are still being reviewed in the courts now, so who knows what will be the case tomorrow or the next week.

QUESTION: I wonder if you could give us a sense of when you expect to get recommendations from Generals Abizaid and Casey about troop levels in Iraq? And do you expect a decrease in the current 140,000-some odd troops there by the end of the year?

RUMSFELD: Well, they, obviously, are constantly reviewing their circumstance in Afghanistan and Iraq and elsewhere around the world, in the entire CENTCOM area of responsibility.

And we had a meeting this morning, for example, on Afghanistan, and spent -- I don't know, it was a considerable amount of time going over that.

We do this regularly and as they come up with differing proposals, why, we receive them and then discuss them with the president and make announcements as appropriate.

But I wouldn't want to prejudge them or predict them.

QUESTION: Do you have a sense when they might recommend whether or not there'll be decreases?

RUMSFELD: No.

QUESTION: There was some talk early this spring about reducing the size of the U.S. contingent there. Is that possible?

RUMSFELD: I think the talk wasn't by General Abizaid or General Pace or Don Rumsfeld or the president.

What I would say is that, in Afghanistan you've got September 18th elections coming up for the provinces as well as the national parliament. That's a much more complex task than the presidential election because of the thousands -- I believe it's in the thousands of candidates for all of those different offices.

RUMSFELD: So that very likely -- and we've talked at NATO about this, about actually increasing some NATO forces during that period. And General Abizaid would have to make a judgment with General Eichenberry as to how he would want to manage that period. But one has to believe that, just as we found in the presidential election, the Al Qaida and the Taliban are certainly not in favor of success there, and we are. So we have to manage that.

In Iraq, we've got elections coming up -- correction: a referendum on a constitution to be written between now and October. And after the referendum, then there would be elections under the new constitution in December.

So we have those things that we do have to keep in mind, as well as the state of play on the ground.

Excuse me, Pete, go ahead.

PACE: It will be event-driven, not timeline-driven. And to put any kind of a timeline on it really is not a smart way to approach it.

QUESTION: The New York Times has quoted unnamed generals in Iraq saying it could be two years or longer before U.S. troops are reduced there. Is that what you're hearing from the generals in Iraq?

RUMSFELD: No.

QUESTION: What are you hearing from the generals in Iraq?

There have been varied reports about the status of Iraqi security forces, whether they're really getting the job done. Some Iraqi commanders are even doubting their own ability to stand up without U.S. forces backing them up.

General Pace, can you give us a realistic update of what you're looking at now?

PACE: I'll use one example. Let's just use Iraqi army battalions.

In May of 2004, there was one -- count them: one -- Iraqi army battalion that was deployable anywhere inside that country. Today there are over 100 battalions, not all of which are fully capable of independent operations right now.

But we have from the U.S. commanders in the field, who are working side by side with them, a breakdown of readiness capability like we provide for our own troops that tell us how many of each type of battalion are available for country-wide deployment, how many are best still to stay in the local vicinity, how many still need more training.

All of that is very positive.

PACE: And the numbers of battalions that are operating first side by side with us has increased dramatically. Then those that are operating independent, as Iraqi units, under their own country's orders, has increased dramatically. The numbers of Iraqi army brigades has increased.

So everything about the train-and-equip program over this last year, under General Casey and General Petraeus, has gone extremely well. They're at just shy of 200,000 total security forces right now. Just shy of that. All not fully train and equipped...

RUMSFELD: I saw 169,000 this week...

PACE: OK, sir.

RUMSFELD: That could be wrong, but...

PACE: I'll check my number. Thank you, sir.

But the bottom line is one battalion a year ago, over 100 battalions working, not only as battalions, but as brigades, meaning three or more battalions at a time. And the division headquarters that are stood up. Three areas that we had as U.S./coalition bases have in the last month been turned over to Iraqi forces, so they have that now their bases of operation.

So this progress is very good.

QUESTION: Just this past week, the inspector general testified before Congress about his accountability review of the Boeing tanker lease. Last November, you described Darleen Druyun as a criminal who had very little adult supervision.

RUMSFELD: A self-confessed criminal. I wasn't judgmental. I think she pled guilty, and she's now in jail, I think.

QUESTION: She is in jail.

In April, you had said, "If..."

RUMSFELD: A good place to be. QUESTION: "... someone does something wrong, they ought to be punished."

RUMSFELD: Right. QUESTION: And now in his report, Inspector General Schmitz has issued a long list of individuals who were accountable for what went wrong in that case, for not properly following acquisition procedures and for pushing through a deal that would have cost taxpayers an estimated $6 billion more than it should have.

In fact, he said that if the contract had been signed, there would have been criminal violations.

QUESTION: What action do you plan to take to punish those cases of wrongdoing? And what safeguards are you planning to implement to make sure it doesn't happen again?

RUMSFELD: We can give you a list of the safeguards and investigations and studies that have already been implemented since the beginning of this process. And I'm sure the press office will give you that, because there have been a number of things that have been already done.

The short answer is, as with any inspector general's report, it'll be studied and evaluated and judgments would be made about it.

QUESTION: In what time frame do you expect to do that, sir?

RUMSFELD: I don't do time frames.

QUESTION: And can you speak to your role in approving that deal?

There is some contradiction within that report about whether you were actively involved in making the decision to proceed with that deal or whether that decision was left up to Undersecretary Aldridge.

RUMSFELD: And this is in this report?

QUESTION: Yes, and in the testimony, the inspector general's staff said that they interviewed you and Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz and that their impression was, or what they understood from those interviews was that you had let Aldridge make that decision and then supported it.

I'm wondering if you can give us your recollection of this.

RUMSFELD: I'd have to go back and read this and then talk to the people involved to refresh myself.

PACE: If I could correct myself while I'm still on mike here, the secretary is correct: There's 169,000 troops -- thanks, Larry -- 169,000 troops today. My number of 200,000 was a projection by December of this year.

So I'm just...

RUMSFELD: Or by October.

PACE: By December, sir.

RUMSFELD: Is it December?

(LAUGHTER)

RUMSFELD: His number does not include the site protection people, which number something like 70,000 additional people who don't report anymore either, as I understand, certainly not to the Ministry of Defense, and have a different role. They actually physically go out and protect a ministry or they do something else. So there are security people beyond the ones that we report on regularly.

QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, the Iraqi national security minister said the Iraqis are considering an amnesty for the insurgents.

RUMSFELD: Is there such a thing as an national security minister?

QUESTION: There is.

RUMSFELD: You mean adviser to the prime minister or the minister of defense or the minister of interior?

QUESTION: The national security minister.

RUMSFELD: OK. That's a new title for me. What's his name or her name?

QUESTION: His name is Abu -- no, that's a different guy.

(LAUGHTER)

Abdul Karim al-Inizi says that the Iraqis are considering an amnesty program for the insurgents. And I'm wondering what you think about this idea.

RUMSFELD: Well, you know, we've done that in our country. On occasion there have been steps taken that relieve people of responsibilities.

In Afghanistan, a sovereign nation, President Karzai is in the process of trying to find a way to get the lower-level Taliban who don't have blood on their hands brought back into the society and connected, to reduce the support for the insurgency.

Iraq's a sovereign nation, and even though I don't know precisely who that individual is at the moment, it would be a perfectly understandable thing to me for them, a sovereign nation, to say that they would like to find a way to make sure that more people are engaged inside the tent rather than outside the tent.

You say there have been reports and so I can't comment on the anonymous quote, "There have been reports about it." And I hadn't seen his statement. But it would not surprise me at all for discussions of that type of be taking place.

RUMSFELD: If you think about it, you've got tribal relationships in that country that go back decades and decades and decades.

And to the extent you can get a tribe that has a portion of its people opposing the government and a portion of the people supporting the government pulled in, boy, that's a good thing.

You want to constantly try to tip people toward support for the Iraqi government if you're going to have a successful single country at peace with its neighbors that's able to provide the kind of opportunities for its people that everyone knows that country can do.

QUESTION: Would you have a problem if such a program included amnesty for those who have engaged in attacks that have killed American soldiers?

RUMSFELD: You know, I don't want to get into that. It's not our role.

It's a sovereign nation. They've got a parliament, national assembly. They have a government. They're going to have a constitution. These are tough decisions they're going to have to make, and they're going to have to live with the decisions they make.

And that's the way it works. You know, at some moment if you got your hand on the bicycle seat, you have to let it go.

And they're going to have to make that decision. And that's fine. And they'll make a decision that will be an Iraqi decision, not an American decision.

QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, on a broader question -- maybe both of you can take a crack at this.

RUMSFELD: We'll make this the last question, this broader question.

QUESTION: Two years plus since the U.S. invasion, the insurgency seems to be vibrant. Certainly the number of attacks seem to be going up and down, but we're in a period now where they seem to be up.

General Pace, maybe you can give us, kind of, a big-picture assessment of the military operation. How successful has it been? The state of the insurgency, if you will.

And, Mr. Secretary, on the political side, how confident are you that there could be a successful political reconciliation in Iraq between these tribal and ethnic factions you talk about?

QUESTION: Could you try to give us a broad-picture assessment of where we are?

RUMSFELD: OK.

PACE: We're operating against a thinking enemy, clearly. The numbers of attacks countrywide in Iraq each day is about 50 or 60, depending upon the day. That's not a good number. It's also not a terrible number. It just is a fact.

Inside those attacks, the enemy has changed their tactics, techniques and procedures in response to the way we've been doing it.

There's been a tremendous amount of progress, as I've already mentioned in this discussion. But from the standpoint of the Iraqi people, what our armed forces and their armed forces and their police can do is provide a level of security inside of which discussions amongst various tribes, amongst various political leaders, amongst those who have different views of the way ahead for the country, but peacefully, to discuss it. So that they can get together and do what they're doing, which is write a constitution, have a referendum, vote for their next government and get on about having the lives they're capable of having.

So the security situation is very important for that. But I would not chase the spikes and dip in the security situation. If you draw a straight line through the middle of that, it's fairly constant. That's not good or bad. It's fact.

But inside of that fairly constant line, there's plenty of opportunity for the Iraqi people to stand up and vote their own futures.

RUMSFELD: On the political portion of it, that's, obviously, not the business of this department, but I can comment on it.

The general feeling is as follows: that the election was held January 30th. It took a number of weeks to put a government together, not a number of years. But a group of people with no experience in democracy at all took a number of weeks -- a few months -- to put together a government. A lot of tugging and hauling. A lot of negotiating about what it would mean in the assembly. A lot of negotiating about what it might mean with respect to the constitution drafting.

RUMSFELD: A lot of negotiating about what it might mean as to who's in what ministry and for what reasons, and in the presidential council, I believe they call it.

And they came to a conclusion...

O'BRIEN: All right, we apologize for abruptly ending the briefing coverage there, but he was just wrapping it up. Let's go to live pictures right now. Coming to us from our affiliate WABC in New York City, what you're seeing there is the remnants of a helicopter, helicopter crash occurring there in the East River, just off the island of Manhattan.

And as you can see, as you look at that helicopter, it's upside down in the water, and it has some -- what appear to be gray pontoons inflated there. Those are devices which are on all helicopters which fly safely and legally over water, to allow them to make emergency landings on the water if need be. So that indicates that the pilot knew that something was amiss, inflated those bags, those airbags, if you will, that provide them some flotation in the water, and the helicopter now sits upside down in the East River there.

So is it possible there was a safe landing and then it was upset by the rough seas in the East River? That's quite a possibility there.

There are a couple of heliports on the east side of Manhattan, one at 34th Street and one at the lower tip of Manhattan, the battery near pier six. This apparently has happened right around pier 11, I am told. So it's possible that this helicopter was on approach to it could have been either one of those heliports, and ran into some difficulty, causing that pilot to inflate those pontoons, which are there for just such emergencies.

And it appears what they're doing here -- we see, obviously, the rescue workers on the scene there with stretchers. But it appears to be -- seems to be people being escorted off there. Possibly those are passengers onboard. We don't know the full story just yet. Anybody who's visited Manhattan knows it's a very busy place for helicopter up and down the East River and the Hudson River, a lot of executives going to and fro Manhattan to various airports and other destinations, and those heliports are actively used.

It's possible in a situation like this an engine might have failed as the helicopter was on its way to or fro, the pilot deciding -- there you see somebody clearly -- all right, we see somebody there who's in need of some attention, clearly, but appears to be conscious.

On the phone with us now is Patrick Montgomery, with the United States Coast Guard, which is obviously involved in this rescue effort.

Patrick, what can you tell us about this incident? Are you there, Patrick? Can you hear me, sir?

PATRICK MONTGOMERY, U.S. COAST GUARD, SPOKESMAN: Yes, I can.

O'BRIEN: All right, Patrick Montgomery with the coast guard, are you with us?

MONTGOMERY: Yes, I am.

O'BRIEN: All right, you're on the air now with CNN. If you could just tell us what you know about this incident?

MONTGOMERY: Absolutely. The Coast Guard is responding to a helicopter that is down in the East River with approximately six people reported to be onboard. We have Coast Guard cutters responding right now.

O'BRIEN: OK, it appears at least one person is being carried away on a stretcher. Do you know if all six people are out of the helicopter at this point?

MONTGOMERY: We do not know that right now. We have several Coast Guard boats and cutters on the scene right now, trying to assist in the situation.

O'BRIEN: All right, six people on board. Was this a sightseeing helicopter, as far as you know?

MONTGOMERY: I do not know. The reports were a downed helicopter, and we are trying to respond as quickly as possible to help ensure that people are out safely.

O'BRIEN: Tell us what kind of response you have ordered there.

MONTGOMERY: We have several different boat of varying sizes. We have the Coast Guard cutter, Captain Walker (ph), which is a larger Coast Guard cutter, as well as a smaller Coast Guard cutter from Bayon (ph), and several small Coast Guard boats should be responding very shortly.

O'BRIEN: And this happened about what time?

MONTGOMERY: We received word about 15 minutes ago.

O'BRIEN: OK, 15 minutes ago. And it appears -- it's pier 11, is that correct?

MONTGOMERY: It's in the area between pier 11 and the 34th Street pier. I don't have the exact location yet.

O'BRIEN: And 34th Street, of course, the location of one of the heliports in Manhattan. Do you have any indication as to whether the pilot was trying to make it to one of the heliports, perhaps 34th Street?

MONTGOMERY: No, sir, we don't have that yet. We are just acting on the reports of people in the water right now.

O'BRIEN: OK. And so as far as you know -- because what I'm looking at are some pictures which show that the inflatable pontoons on the helicopter were, in fact, deployed, indicating that the pilot probably knew there was some problem. Missing some tape of that. You'll see the helicopter upside down in those gray, cylinder-like things -- are basically air bags. You don't know anything about the circumstances that led to this?

MONTGOMERY: No, sir. The first thing that we're trying to do is help rescue the people in the water.

O'BRIEN: All right. And we'll let you get back to it. Patrick Montgomery with the U.S. Coast Guard. Thank you for your help. I know you're busy there, taking care of this situation. And you can see, obviously, a very impressive response. New York Fire Department, New York Police Department, on the scene. And of course, as you just heard, United States Coast Guard. I think you can see the bow end of one of those Coast Guard cutters just there right now.

as you can see, you have some rescue divers there. It looks like they're wearing maybe a dry suit. Might have inside that helicopter, trying to continue the rescue effort. But as the Coast Guard just told us, unclear right now if any of the six people that were on board this helicopter are still there.

We did, just a few moments ago, as you well know and if you're watching, see somebody carried away on a stretcher. They appeared to be conscious and appeared to be having some kind of conversation with the rescue workers. All right.

And we have with us now, also on the line, is CNN's Kathleen Koch, who may have some additional information for us. Kathleen is always in close contact with the FAA and other authorities -- Kathleen.

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Miles, I did just speak with Laura Brown (ph). She's a spokesman for the FAA. And what the FAA knows at this point is that this helicopter made a hard landing in the Hudson River, near what they're calling the Wall Street Helipad. The only other information is that there were seven people on board and the FAA believes they are all out of the water at this point.

O'BRIEN: OK. So that's slightly conflicting from what we heard. We heard six people from the U.S. Coast Guard. But the key there is the FAA is fairly certain that everybody's out?

KOCH: That's what we heard. Laura with would not say anything about their condition. She also could not say exactly where the helicopter was bound or who was flying what operation. But at this point, the FAA is reporting that all seven passengers are out of the water, though no word on their condition.

O'BRIEN: All right. Seven passengers. We don't know for sure if it was a sightseeing-type of operation or anything like that?

KOCH: Right, we don't. And I guess I should say seven people on board. We don't know that -- if this was -- I assume at least one pilot and then a number of passengers.

O'BRIEN: OK. Kathleen Koch, thank you. Continue working the phones for us, if you would. And that additional information from the FAA, slightly conflicting. Seven people is the number. But the key here, to point out to you, is according to the FAA, everybody's out of the water.

So just to do a little bit of quick supposition here, we had a pilot and six passengers -- let's make that assumption for just a moment -- one pilot would be normal in this situation. Some sort of engine trouble. He deploys those inflatable devices there. A landing without an engine on the helicopter is called an auto rotation. I've experienced one of these right up to the very last moment. And if you land in an auto rotation, you know you've landed, that's for sure. Hard landing. But nevertheless, a survivable one with those flotation devices in the East River.

Watching that and a lot of other things. Back with more in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) O'BRIEN: OK. Here's the story we're tracking. And this is some picture coming into us -- I believe these are WABC pictures. We think -- sorry, WNYW. We shifted gears a little bit. We thank them both for their pictures and their assistance in all of this.

And what you see in the lower part of your screen right there, you can probably make it out, are the treads of an upside down helicopter in the East River. That's Pier 11 in Manhattan. And those gray, sort of cylindrical-like devices there are inflatable air bags that helicopters that fly over water are required to have. And those are there for the possibility of some kind of engine failure over water. And it provides a little bit of flotation, kind of a stop-gap measure, for a helicopter that is in some difficulty with its engine.

And it is apparent -- that's what happened here -- that the pilot had some difficulty with his engine. Perhaps an engine out, inflated those air bags, made a hard landing, what's called an auto rotation, when the engine go out on a helicopter. We're told there were seven aboard, including the pilot. We don't know exactly its mission was. Was it a sight-seeing mission, was it some sort of executive transport mission. In any case, we're told by the FAA that all seven are out.

The Coast Guard is on the scene. They said there were six aboard. We're trying to straighten out that little discrepancy on the numbers. But want to underscore that point, that the FAA indicates that everybody got out. Now, I should point out, that as it -- is upside down right now, it's quite possible that was just overturned by the rough seas of the East River. Those inflatable emergency devices are kind of a stop-gap measure and would not be enough for a helicopter to weather any rough seas.

CNN's Susan Lisovicz, who normally looks at business for us, has had the occasion to fly in and out of some of those heliports in Manhattan, to no less an august place in the Forbes yacht, but that's another story entirely.

Susan, it is a busy helicopter location, Manhattan is. And I've often marveled at the skill of the pilots there negotiating that busy airspace and those tiny little heliports.

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. I mean, you have to remember, when people think, Miles, of New York City, you have to remember that most of the business, most of the activity, is taking place in Manhattan, which is a tiny little island. And lower Manhattan, where I'm speaking to you from now, which is just really a few blocks, a few minutes walk, to the East River.

So these helicopter pilots, when they're navigating, they're either going around the Hudson River -- there's a landing strip there, or on the East River. Donald Trump oftentimes, you see him taking off from, for instance, from the East River.

This is a very congested airspace. Not only do you have three major airports -- Newark Airport, JFK and La Guardia -- you also have a lot of private jet traffic. So for instance, executives who want to get to Teterboro, New Jersey, may, in fact, decide to get into helicopter to get there quickly, because otherwise you just don't know how long it's going to take, if you're going through one of the tunnels, the G.W. Bridge, or what not.

But I can tell you this is a very heavily trafficked area, because you also have the media center of the nation. So you always have a lot of traffic choppers in the air that are monitoring accidents, tie-ups, what have you. So to see helicopters in the air at any given time is a very common sight here.

O'BRIEN: Well, and perhaps because of those sheer numbers, it's not too uncommon to hear about mishaps with helicopters. There have been quite a few incidents over the years with traffic and/or television news-gathering helicopters that have ended up in the drink around Manhattan.

LISOVICZ: Well, one of the most famous ones, actually, Miles, took place decades ago. The building was then called Pan Am, the Pan Am building, right next to Grand Central Station.

There used to be a heliport on top of this skyscraper. And that was a tragic, tragic accident. People died. The helicopter fell down into the streets of Midtown, the congested streets of Midtown. That no longer exists.

But I do recall about a year or two ago one of the local news stations here, WNBC, did have an accident involving a traffic chopper. And thankfully, everyone survived. And, again, it involved tremendous skills for this pilot to land something -- it was on top of a roof, I believe, in one of the outer boroughs, Brooklyn, I believe it was.

O'BRIEN: Now, as you -- do you recall from your flights to these tiny little heliports, it's kind of scary, isn't it?

LISOVICZ: It is. It's very scary. I mean, the ride that you were referring to was actually the -- "Forbes" magazine every now and then has media get-togethers. And they actually have a landing strip, if you can imagine, on a boat. And it took off from the Hudson River.

But the heliports themselves that are on land are not much -- much wider than that, because the one on the west side, for instance, by the Hudson River is very narrow, indeed. So it's a straight shot. It's very different from an airplane which, you know, taxis -- rather, it gathers all this momentum before it takes off, where with a helicopter, it just goes straight up.

O'BRIEN: Yes. And what amazes me -- I've seen this happen many times -- you know, they can only come in from one direction because of the buildings. And if they -- if the wind happens to be blowing them on a tail wind, it can be very challenging. Of course, we're not talking necessarily about what happened here today.

What this looks like, it appear, is a pilot who had some sort of mechanical malfunction, perhaps an engine out, which caused him to inflate those emergency air bags there and caused that hard landing in the East River. Once again, just to reset things for you, about a half an hour ago, this helicopter, on approach, we believe, trying to make it to one of the heliports in the east side of Manhattan, perhaps the one downtown, maybe the one at 34th Street -- it's kind of in between right now, so we don't know for sure -- seven people on board, including the pilot. According to the FAA, made a hard landing, which would lead you do believe it was a so-called auto rotation or an engine-out landing.

All seven people are outside of the aircraft. That's the term the FAA used. That doesn't tell us much about their condition, of course. But the fact they're all out, obviously, would be probably a good sign at this juncture.

As you can see, on Pier 11 there, on the east side of Manhattan, the New York Fire Department, the New York Police Department, the Coast Guard, very well represented as the rescue operation continues.

CNN's Kathleen Koch has been in touch with her sources at the FAA.

Kathleen, what do you know?

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Miles, I'm talking to both the FAA, NTSB, other government transportation officials. And the additional new information that we've gotten is encouraging, obviously, to the families of anyone who was on board this helicopter, and that is, that at this point, there are no life-threatening injuries reported.

Now, for that reason, the NTSB is still trying to decide whether or not it will send investigators from Washington or whether they will handle this crash from their New Jersey office, which is a possibility when it's a small, regional accident that doesn't involve any loss of life, like this one -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right. So just to help people understand that, the NTSB has what's call a go team. And these people are based in Washington. They've got a bag packed, and if there's a serious incident, they're on their way. This one may not rise to that level, Kathleen?

KOCH: Correct. And again, obviously the loved ones of those on board are very happy in that case. And again, the good word from the FAA, also earlier, a few minutes ago, is that they say there were seven people on board this helicopter. All of them are off the helicopter. And again, we're hearing from other transportation officials at this point no life-threatening injuries.

O'BRIEN: All right. So that's -- that's all very good news. No life-threatening injuries, everybody out, seven people aboard. The helicopter upside down right now, but I'm going to take a wild guess that everybody got out before it was upended, probably in the choppy currents of the East River there in Manhattan.

So, once again, this -- what looks like a very scary incident may end up being just quite a harrowing tale to tell for seven people, including, certainly, the pilot, who had to contend with an engine out over the East River. But those inflatable pontoons might very well have saved the day here in New York City as that rescue operation continues.

And I guess now we can safely say, since the seven are safe and sound, and no life-threatening injuries, we'll call this a salvage operation and investigation by the National Transportation Safety Board and others, as they try to figure out what happened in this case.

All right. We have one of the associate medical directors of the New York downtown hospital. I missed his name. Somebody -- Antonio Dajer.

Are you with us, now?

DR. ANTONIO DAJER, NY DOWNTOWN HOSPITAL: Yes, man.

O'BRIEN: Is it doctor or mister?

DAJER: Doctor.

O'BRIEN: OK. Dr. Dajer, can you just tell us, did you receive any people who were onboard this helicopter this afternoon?

DAJER: We received two patients so far.

O'BRIEN: How are they doing?

DAJER: They're doing fine. Apparently fell into the water, some exposure to gasoline fumes and sprayed with some high octane helicopter fuel. But otherwise, they're OK.

O'BRIEN: OK. And did they tell you much about the story? Were they able to tell you what happened?

DAJER: Best we can tell from paramedics on the scene and from the passengers is the helicopter was lifting off apparently very quickly, clipped something that damaged the rotor, and immediately the pilot lost control and pitched into the water.

O'BRIEN: OK. So it was on takeoff and the rotor was damaged. The rotor, which keeps it from spinning around like a top. And very quickly ended up in the drink? That's what you're hearing?

DAJER: That's what we've heard so far, yes.

O'BRIEN: All right. And was it a sightseeing mission of some kind, or do you know?

DAJER: I can say that some of our patients have foreign accents, so I assume it was a sightseeing helicopter. But I can't confirm that.

O'BRIEN: OK. You haven't asked that question necessarily yet. DAJER: It sounds like they were -- it looks like they were tourists visiting New York City.

O'BRIEN: OK. And basically, your understanding is that all of them are in similar condition, which is to say good condition?

DAJER: Yes. And the paramedics on the scene have relayed that they saw no serious injuries or no evidence of serious trauma. So hopefully everybody will be fine.

O'BRIEN: OK. Boy, close call.

DAJER: Very close call.

O'BRIEN: And interesting story to bring back home on their trip.

DAJER: Yes.

O'BRIEN: My trip to Manhattan.

DAJER: That's right. From the water up.

O'BRIEN: Exactly. Dr. Antonio Dajer, thank you very much. We appreciate that.

And we're glad to hear that we're able to tell you that everybody's safe and sound. And a takeoff that didn't go so well on lower Manhattan there, presumably some tourists, maybe a rotor blade clipped, the next thing you know, they're in the East River with quite a story to tell.

We're going to shift gears now and tell you about some other things going on in the world.

In Aruba, a group of men being held in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway considerably smaller today. Two men who spent more than a week in police custody are now free.

Holloway's mother has said she believes they had nothing to do with her daughter's vanishing. But she's not saying that about the other three men that are still in custody.

CNN's John Zarrella joins us live now from Palm Beach, Aruba, with the latest -- John.

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Miles, that's exactly right. The two security guards who were arrested on the 5th of June, who worked at a nearby hotel, were released last night.

Somewhat of a surprise, because they were supposed to have a hearing today, where this possible release would be discussed. But rather than that, late last night, almost midnight here, the authorities, the prosecutors, went ahead and released the two security guards. They had maintained from the very beginning that they were innocent, that they had never seen the girl, had never come in contact with Natalee Holloway. Now, the other three men who are still in -- in police custody and are continuing to be questioned, three young men, they were the ones who originally had fingered the security guards, saying that somebody who looked like a security guard, they said, was last seen with Natalee Holloway. Well, while in prison, while in jail, one of the security guards was just one cell away from one of the two Surinamese youths who were being questioned, and the security guard told us a little while ago that the Surinamese youth admitted to him in a cell-to-cell conversation that he had lied about the security guard's involvement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICKEY JOHN, SECURITY GUARD: He apologized to me. He did apologize. He told me that he was sorry because -- because of his story, we've been held in custody. If he had told the truth from the very start, we would have never been in this mess.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZARRELLA: Now, one Dutch youth and the two Surinamese youths are still being held, are still being questioned. And authorities are telling us today that they have been formally accused with murder, manslaughter and the kidnapping with fatal results. But be very careful there, because that's the same thing that the two security guards were originally accused of.

Formal accusation is not a charge. But under Dutch law, they are formally accused, which means they are basically suspects in the case -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: John, give us a sense of what you can see about how well this investigation is meshing between the Aruban authorities, and I know there's some people there, representatives of the FBI, for example. And it's unclear right now how tightly they're working.

ZARRELLA: Well, the FBI is really here in more of an observing role and a consulting role. If evidence is found that the Aruban authorities want to have analyzed -- for example, they thought there might be some blood found in a Honda. They had the FBI send that to Quantico, to the FBI laboratories, where it was analyzed. It turned up it was not blood at all.

So the FBI is here pretty much in an observing role, answering questions and handling any forensics that may need to be done. But the Aruban authorities are, for the most part, in complete control of this investigation.

And now it appears pretty clearly that it is focused on these three young individuals who were apparently the last three to see Natalee Holloway. They were the ones who supposedly left this bar, Carlos 'N Charlie's here, with Natalee Holloway.

O'BRIEN: John Zarrella, on the island of Aruba. Thank you very much. Appreciate that.

Let's talk about that FBI agent issue. How much can they, how much are they allowed to do?

Lots of questions. John just alluded to some of the issues there. We'll talk about it with a former FBI agent a little later in the program.

Well, a day of fun and fantasy at a Florida theme park turns tragic. A young boy dies after taking an imaginary trip into space. The popular thrill ride at Disney's Epcot Center is up and running again now.

Reporter Josh Einiger of our affiliate WFTV is there.

JOSH EINIGER, REPORTER, WFTV: Disney has now reopened the ride they call Mission: Space here at Epcot Center, deeming it safe for riders less than 24 hours after a family vacation turned tragic. Now, this all happened yesterday at about 3:15 in the afternoon.

A 4-year-old boy traveling on the ride with his mother and older sister. The ride ended, and the mother was seen carrying the boy off of the ride, emotional over the fact that he was not breathing. They performed CPR, called 911, and took him to the hospital, but doctors pronounced him dead less than an hour and a half after that.

At this point, investigators have launched a death investigation into this case.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRYSTAL CANDY, ORANGE COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPT.: Yesterday, they interviewed family. They also interviewed the employees who were there at the time. You know, at this point, the boy has no known medical problems. And so it's going to be up to the medical examiner to determine exactly why this child died.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

EINIGER: Investigators say the boy named Daudi Bamuwamye did meet the minimum height requirement on the ride of 44 inches. He had no pre-existing medical conditions, and he also -- they found there was nothing wrong with the ride itself.

That is why this investigation is ongoing. They say it's now up to the medical examiner to determine for sure the cause of death.

For now, reporting from Orlando, I'm Josh Einiger, CNN.

O'BRIEN: As Josh pointed out to us, the Mission: Space ride at Epcot Center is something that -- well, it's not for the faint of heart. Take a look at this animation which was produced by the company that actually engineered it for Disney.

What this shows is sort of the internal guts of Mission: Space. And as you can see, it's a giant centrifuge, and each of those little pods contains some of the passengers. And it's designed to spin people, give them a sense of High-G, as well -- which means feeling many, many times your own weight -- in this case, two-and-a-half times your own weight.

To put that in perspective, shuttle astronauts feel about 3Gs, or three times your own weight. So this is a pretty rough ride.

And in addition, the -- you'll notice those little cabs on the centrifuge as it spins around there. They also have the ability to pivot along the -- well, space people call it the X and Y axis. It doesn't really matter, but the pivots allows people to get the sensation also of picking up speed, of slowing down, and even, you know, sort of a brief spurt -- you can see how it goes up and down there -- a brief spurt of what appears to be weightlessness.

So the idea is to give people the sensation of taking a ride into space, on to Mars and so forth. And that is the way it works, schematically, at least. Nevertheless, people are advised if they have problems with their heart or back, or if they're just too small, not to go on that particular ride.

CNN's John Zarrella back in Aruba.

We have developments to report there, John?

ZARRELLA: We sure do, Miles. Now, what we can say is that right now, our people down by the Marriott hotel are seeing what appears to be an investigation by authorities. They have the entire area cordoned off about 200 yards up the beach from the Marriott, by the water, in the beach area.

They are apparently searching that area. That is, for the most part, what we know. But, to bring that into full context, what we have been hearing for the last 24 hours or so is that the two Surinamese youths who were two of the three in custody were saying that they had dropped Natalee Holloway off near the Marriott, and that they had dropped her off with the boy from Holland.

And so there may be reason then, clearly, for police to be searching that particular area of the beach. Now, it may well be -- you would assume that that whole area has been combed on many occasions up to now. But perhaps they have some new information now that would have led them out there.

But our people there are saying that a couple hundred yards up from the Marriott hotel, which is just a few blocks from where we are here, at the Holiday Inn, is where this search is now under way. A lot of police cars down by the water, and a lot of people down by the water and along the beach area -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Boy, I've got to admit, I'm a little surprised, John, that this area hadn't been searched. You said it might have been or could have been. There's potentially some new information here, is what we're talking about.

ZARRELLA: Yes. Clearly, this whole area was searched and combed right after the disappearance and within the first few days. They did the massive search of this whole area. So unless some detail has come out in the interrogation of these three young men that would have led the authorities to then go specifically to this area, you know, near the Marriott hotel, which, again, is in agreement with what we are being told the Surinamese youths, young men, have been saying about where they dropped Natalee Holloway off.

O'BRIEN: Of course it's been two weeks now. And so whatever trail might there be is going to be pretty cold.

ZARRELLA: Yes, clearly. And you would certainly suspect that any evidence that might be down by the water or in the water after two weeks, somebody, you know, in a big area like this, a huge tourist area, would have seen something, even if it wasn't discovered during the search.

So, you know, it is somewhat curious as to what they might be looking for right now, down by the water. But that's what we know, that there is some sort of activity, some sort of a search by Aruban authorities going on now within a couple hundred yards of the Marriott hotel, along the beach area -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: And John, do you know off hand if divers are a part of this search or have been a part of this search to this point?

ZARRELLA: Don't know, don't have any indication that divers have been used up to this point. And our people, from what they can see in the limited access that they have so far to the area, are just seeing people along the beach area and along the shoreline. No indication there might be a boat in the area with divers in the vicinity. But we will certainly check into that and see if we can get that information as well.

O'BRIEN: All right. CNN's John Zarrella. It sounds like you have some work to do there in Palm Beach, Aruba.

Appreciate it. Keep us posted as soon as you hear anything on that story, now two weeks old, the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

Well, what did Kofi Annan know and when did he know it? New information about the investigation into the oil-for-food scandal at the United Nations straight ahead for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COOKE: There's not going to be any parades for Robert coming home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: A U.S. Army sergeant deserted his post and defected to North Korea. Forty years later, time to come home. We'll take you to his home town just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) O'BRIEN: Surprising developments in the U.N. Oil-for-Food scandal today. A new memo raising urgent questions about U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan. It seems to contradict earlier findings that had cleared him of any wrongdoing.

Our senior U.N. Correspondent Richard Roth has been following the story all along -- Richard.

RICHARD ROTH, CNN SR. U.N. CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I think it's too soon to say, Miles, whether something has been proven either way based upon this memo, which the Swiss-based company Cotecna says was accidentally discovered in their files now that they're doing major audits. Cotecna was a company which won a $10 million contract to authenticate humanitarian goods going into Iraq before the war.

The question that has been posed and has been investigated, and continues to be investigated, is, did Secretary-General Annan know of Cotecna's interest in winning this contract and influence that process? Now a memo has turned up which has a former vice president of that Swiss company, Michael Wilson, writing, according to the e- mail that we have obtained -- in this e-mail, Wilson writes back to his superiors after a discussion in France, he says -- with the secretary-general and his entourage -- he says, "We had brief discussions with Kofi Annan and his entourage." And later in the e- mail, "We could count on their support."

About a week after this, Cotecna did indeed win the lucrative contract. The spokesman for Kofi Annan was peppered with questions today about what Kofi Annan knew.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRED ECKHARD, U.N. SPOKESMAN: The views attributed to him in this e-mail by Michael Wilson that somehow the secretary would be fully supportive, or whatever he said in his e-mail, of Cotecna's efforts to get this contract, that could not be -- that could not have come from the secretary-general because he had no knowledge that Cotecna was a contender for that contract.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: The spokesman says Secretary-General Kofi Annan, who's in Paris, had no record of any such exchange with Wilson. Now, Wilson is a childhood friend of Kojo Annan, the man you're looking at now, the son of the secretary-general.

Wilson is from Ghana, and in the Ghanaian tradition, according to Paul Volcker's report, the man who's also investigating this, Wilson considered Annan like an uncle. Kojo Annan has not exactly been cooperating in full with the Volcker panel and other congressional branches of the U.S. government looking into this matter.

The U.N. insists there was no quid pro quo. They stand by that. This matter is still being investigated. The Volcker committee, Miles, has been given that e-mail, plus the Annan records of who exactly he met with in Paris back in 1998. O'BRIEN: So for the Volcker committee the case isn't closed, they will continue investigating?

ROTH: They have always been continuing to investigate. They've got a major report coming up in the summer, and they never really closed the case on anyone in this matter.

O'BRIEN: All right. Richard Roth, thank you very much.

The disappearance into -- excuse me, the investigation into the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. The FBI in Aruba. And as we know right now, there's some sort of search going on right now on the beach in front of the Marriott hotel.

Is the FBI involved with that? We'll talk with a former FBI investigator about how the FBI operates in these situations outside the shores of the United States.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: A homecoming 40 years in the making. The last time Charles Jenkins was in the U.S., he was in his mid-20s, in the Army, heading for duty in South Korea. And then he deserted.

He wasn't heard from until last year. And he says all he wants is a quiet reunion with his ailing mother in North Carolina.

Debra Morgan with our affiliate WRAL take us to his home town.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOKE: I've saved picture of my friend Rob when he was in the army.

DEBRA MORGAN, REPORTER, WRAL (voice-over): The man the world knows as Charles Jenkins Michael Cooke knows as Robert, a boy he grew up with in Rich Square.

COOKE: And a lot of our favorite pastimes was playing like we were soldiers, fighting the enemy, which was the communists.

MORGAN: Which is why Cooke found this headline in the "News & Observer" back in 1965 so hard to believe.

COOKE: Defection confirmed for (INAUDIBLE). And I remember the day I was away at school, picking that newspaper up and reading it on the way back to my room, and just unbelievable.

MORGAN: Cooke kept in touch with Jenkins during his time in the Army and collected memorabilia now stored in a museum. They've talked on the phone three times since Jenkins moved to Japan after his court- martial for desertion, but he has yet to ask the big question.

COOKE: I haven't asked him anything heavy or serious, you know, like, "Why did you do it? Why did you do it, Rob?"

MORGAN: It's a question people in Rich Square would like an answer to as well. A Japanese television crew is camped outside Jenkins' boyhood home, hoping to get a glimpse of him. It's been more than 40 years since he left this small town, and many here would rather he never come back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't want him to be a hero. I want him to be what he was. He was a coward.

MORGAN: Cooke knows he may be one of few people who wants to see his old friend.

COOKE: There are not going to be any parades for Robert coming home. He's not going to be honored as a hero.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: All right. And there are some pictures we got recently. This is Charles Jenkins arriving on U.S. soil, Dulles Airport, late this morning, on his way to that homecoming with his ailing mother and in his hometown of North Carolina, where there is divided opinion over what he did some 40 years ago on the Korean peninsula. Back with more in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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