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Iraq War: What Next?; Eminent Domain; Mississippi Murder Trial; Aruba Disappearance Update

Aired June 23, 2005 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Blasts in Iraq, insurgents attacks and tough questions on Capitol Hill about how the war is going.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: Isn't it time for you to resign?

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Senator, I've offered my resignation to the president twice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Wildfires. The burning season begins out West with blazes threatening homes and scorching thousands of acres.

And emotional reunions. Months after the tsunami struck, a father and daughter finally find each other.

From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Fredricka Whitfield, in for Kyra Phillips. This hour of CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.

Whether the Iraqi insurgency is or isn't in its last throes, as Vice President Cheney declared on CNN on Memorial Day, the unease on Capitol Hill is not, by a long shot. Today, even some Republicans are taking aim at administration spin as attacks on Iraqis and U.S. troops continue and popular support for the war effort wanes.

CNN's Jamie McIntyre has been watching a sometimes ballistic hearing of the Senate Armed Services Committee from his post at the Pentagon -- Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fredricka, the U.S. top military commander for the U.S. Central Command expressed concerns today that the American public is losing confidence in the ability of the United States to win the war, and he also failed to endorse that suggestion by Vice President Cheney that the insurgency is in the last throes. General John Abizaid, testifying along with Defense Secretary Rumsfeld and other top commanders, told the Senate Armed Services Committee that he's never seen confidence higher in the region, but he says back in the United States, he's never seen confidence lower in the prospects for success.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GEN. JOHN ABIZAID, COMMANDER, U.S. CENTRAL COMMANDER: When my soldiers say to me and ask me the question whether or not they've got support from the American people or not, that worries me. And they're starting to do that. And when the people that we're training, Iraqis and Afghans, start asking me whether or not we have the staying power to stick with them that worries me, too.

So I would say we better have a frank discussion with ourselves. I'm not against the debate. We that are fighting the war think it's a war worth fighting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCINTYRE: The message from the Pentagon is that this is a battle of wills and this is the exact wrong time to start sending a message that perhaps the United States is having second thoughts. When Senator Joe Lieberman suggested that public opinion was tipping away from the war, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld launched into an emotional defense, arguing against defeatism.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUMSFELD: It has always been so. George Washington was pounded and pounded and pounded and almost fired. Abraham Lincoln was pouned and pounded. People -- it was not popular.

There were deep divisions, deep disagreements. And our country survived them all.

My goodness, in the first part of World War II, we lost battle after battle after battle. And people said, oh, my goodness isn't it terrible? We're going to lose. In the Cold War, people wanted to toss in the towel in the Cold War.

We've always survived these things. We can do that.

The American people are solid. And I don't mean solid in support of the war. They're solid human beings. And if we tell them the truth and provide the right kind of leadership, by golly, they'll support a worthy noble goal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCINTYRE: Rumsfeld testified the timing in war is, in his words, unpredictable. And he said it was the wrong time to issue any deadlines or timelines for the withdrawal of U.S. troops. But as for critics who say the U.S. is losing, Rumsfeld said flatly, they are wrong -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right. Jamie McIntyre from the Pentagon. Thanks so much.

Enemies of the Iraqi government, Iraqi civilians, law and order, in general, are still causing murder and mayhem seemingly at will.

CNN's Jennifer Eccleston has the latest from Baghdad now. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JENNIFER ECCLESTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The violence shows no sign of abating. Four early morning car bomb blasts in the busy Karada (ph) commercial district in central Baghdad left 17 people dead and 68 wounded. The attacks targeted two Shiite mosques and an Iraqi police patrol where three officer were killed. Another blast took place outside of a public bath house and a fifth car bomb was detected, but it was diffused by Iraqi police.

Now, the explosions come just hours after at least 18 people died on Wednesday in five blasts, all car bombs in mainly Shiite districts of the capital city. Over 46 people were wounded.

Now, the Iraqi police say the attacks were the work of foreign insurgents targeting the majority Shiites, pitting them against the minority Sunnis and increasing the chance of sectarian violence here in Iraq.

Now, also today, the al Qaeda group in Iraq said in an Internet posting that a senior Saudi militant, Abdullah Mohammed al-Rashud (ph), was killed in fighting with U.S. forces in Al Qaim, near the Syrian border. Of course al Qaeda in Iraq is led by Abu Musab al- Zarqawi.

Now, al-Rashud (ph) is one of three Saudi fugitives at large from a list of 26 senior al Qaeda militants accused of carrying out attacks in the Saudi kingdom. We know from the U.S. Marines that 50 insurgents were believe killed in Operation Spear in the city of Karabilah, near to Al Qaim. They said that Saudis could have been part of that number. They found a number of non-Iraqi passports, including passports from those from the Saudi kingdom.

Jennifer Eccleston, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Reports out today say the Pentagon is working with a private marketing firm to assemble personal data for drumming up young recruits, according to "The Washington Post." The data collection effort is to include the records of students as young as 16.

With the Iraq war, recruitment has fallen off. Privacy groups say the newly-launched effort skirts established law that limits personal information the government can gather. The data being collected includes Social Security numbers, e-mail addresses, even ethnicity.

Private property owners lost some clout today through a ruling by the U.S. Supreme Court.

Standing by live with that story is CNN's Kimberly Osias at the Supreme Court -- Kimberly.

KIMBERLY OSIAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fredricka, the legal concept here of eminent domain is somewhat complicated, that of taking property by force. However, the issue is really quite simple and one that's really a matter of heart, especially for the seven families immediately effected.

This case originated back in 1978, in New London, Connecticut. Now, some of these people have been in these homes forever, have been born in these homes. One woman, in fact, 87 yeas old, wants to die in that same home.

Now, today, the Supreme Court handed local governments a victory, albeit a very narrow one in a 5-4 ruling, saying essentially that local governments have the power to seize private property. We're talking about homes here and land and the like, in order to benefit private businesses. Now, that is the key verbiage here, private businesses, because historically, of course, government could take by force some property in order to build highways, schools and the like for greater good.

Now, these families that I mentioned, they are saying that they are going to stay put, they are examining other legal avenues. At this juncture, they're not sure what. The attorney that argued this in front of the high court back in February, Scott Bullock, spoke out just a little while ago, calling this an absolute travesty of justice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT BULLOCK, HOMEOWNERS' LAWYER: The people who will be most affected by today's decision are the poor and working, and middle class homeowners, who may now see their neighborhoods and their homes and small businesses targeted by governments and their corporate allies. This battle will continue.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OSIAS: Justice John Paul Stevens wrote the majority opinion, saying, "It is not for the courts to oversee the choice of the boundary line, nor to sit in review on the size of a particular project area."

Justice Sandra Day O'Connor issued a descending opinion, saying, "Any property may now be taken for the benefit of another private party, but the fallout from this decision will not be random. The beneficiaries are likely to be those citizens with disproportionate influence and power in the political process, including large corporations and development firms."

The high court will, of course, be meeting on Monday and Tuesday next week to discuss some other big issues. Among them, of course, The Ten Commandments -- Fredricka..

WHITFIELD: All right. Kimberly Osias, thanks so much, from the Supreme Court.

Four decades after three civil rights workers were slain in Mississippi, justice is served. Eighty-year-old Edgar Ray Killen was sentenced today for masterminding the slayings. He'll spend the rest of his life in prison. CNN's Ed Lavandera has details now from Philadelphia, Mississippi.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Edgar Ray Killen has received the maximum sentence for the 1964 killings of three civil rights workers, Michael Schwerner, Andrew Goodman and James Chaney. Killen was sentenced to 60 years in prison. And under 1964 Mississippi state law, he must serve at least 20 years of that sentence before he's eligible for parole. So many here consider this to be a life sentence.

Edgar Ray Killen had nothing to say as he was wheeled out of the courthouse here in Philadelphia, Mississippi, wearing a yellow prison uniform. He'll remain in the custody of the Neshoba County Jail for the time being.

Meanwhile, his attorneys say they plan to file a motion for a new trial, and they'll also ask the judge to release Edgar Ray Killen on bond while this case is being appealed.

Prosecutors and victims' families celebrated the stiff sentence. The state attorney general of Mississippi who helped prosecute the case had a simple message for the man once known around here as Preacher Killen. He said, "You don't get into heaven unless you admit what you've done."

Ed Lavandera, CNN, Philadelphia, Mississippi.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: In California, the fate of a father. The penalty phase begins today in the trial of a man who committed unthinkable crimes against his own children.

Marcus Wesson was convicted last month of killing nine of his children. He was also found guilty of sexually abusing several of his daughters and nieces. A jury in Fresno begins hearing testimony today to decide whether Wesson will get life in prison or the death penalty.

Wildfires burning homes and spreading fear.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I feel I'm kind of sad because maybe my house is going to burn down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: We'll take you out West, where the fires are burning with a vengeance.

And tears of joy. A father reunites with the daughter he feared had been swept away by the tsunami.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: After six months of searching, six months of doubt, a father who lost his daughter has her back again. The daughter disappeared on the day after Christmas when the devastating tsunami swept the coast of Asia. This lost-and-found story from CNN's Ralitza Vassileva.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RALITZA VASSILEVA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): An emotional reunion in Indonesia's Aceh province. Father and daughter united after more than six months apart. The last time Muhammad Ali had seen his teenage daughter, Sri Handayani, she was headed to visit relatives in the coastal town of Molibu (ph).

Then the horrible nightmare of December 26 struck. The massive waves of the tsunami destroyed hundreds of towns, killing tens of thousands of people. This 45-year-old carpenter did not know whether his daughter was alive or dead.

MUHAMMAD ALI, REUNITED WITH DAUGHTER (through translator): I'm very happy because I finally can see my daughter again.

VASSILEVA: The happiness of the moment quickly turned somber. Ali could only nod in silence when Handayani asked whether her mother and sister had been taken by the waves.

SRI HANDAYANI, REUNITED WITH FATHER (through translator): I'm happy that I can meet my family again, even though I lost my mother.

ALI: I thought she was dead, and then only one month ago I got news that she might be alive. Then I got a call through the UNICEF office.

VASSILEVA: In the chaotic aftermath of the tsunami, thousands of children were separated from their families. UNICEF is tracking some 1,900 children who remain separated from their parents. Many of them are living with extended family, but about 100 are staying with foster parents.

Six months later, this reunion is a rare piece of good news in an area that is still struggling to recover from the tsunami.

Ralitsa Vassileva, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: News around the world now.

Lebanon's president is under pressure to resign. The anti-Syrian coalition that won a majority in Lebanon's parliament is demanding Emile Lahoud step down. It's blaming Lahoud's leadership for the assassination of opponents this month.

Campaigning is over in Iran ahead of its presidential runoff election. Voters head to the polls tomorrow to choose either Tehran mayor Mahmoud Ahmadinejad or former president Akbar Rafsanjani.

Iran's current president is voicing concern about irregularities and calling on officials to confront them. Iran says at least 26 people have been arrested for suspected election violations.

The prince is now the graduate. Britain's Prince William graduated from St. Andrews University in Scotland today. His grandmother, Queen Elizabeth, and his father, Prince Charles, attended the ceremony.

Rocket attacks insurgents.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fire.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: CNN takes you on patrol in Afghanistan, where U.S. forces are discovering a disturbing trend.

China's American ambitions. What does a bid to buy a U.S. oil company mean for the future of both countries?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: With oil prices hitting new highs, China is struggling to acquire more of the vital resource. And it's turning to the U.S. A Chinese company is in multibillion-dollar bidding war to buy a U.S. oil company.

CNN's Stan Grant reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STAN GRANT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A booming economy, choking factories, traffic jamming the roads. China is thirsty for oil and will pay dearly to get it. State-controlled China National Offshore Oil Corporation, or CNOOC, setting new corporate records, making an $18.5 billion bid for America's Unocal. It is already ringing alarm bells.

ROBERT MILLER, FINANCIAL JOURNALIST: I think the first thing you're going to see is an outcry from a number of people on the political front and calls for inquiries.

GRANT: There are already cries in Washington for the Bush administration to consider blocking the bid. It marks potentially another flash-point for U.S.-China trade relations, already soured of textile exports and pressure on China to revalue its currency.

And watching on, Chevron. It has an agreement to buy Unocal for $16 billion, a deal approved by U.S. antitrust authorities. Now facing a bidding war as CNOOC launches what would be the biggest overseas corporate buyout by a Chinese firm. JASON FEER, ARGUS MEDIA: There had been talk that they were prepared to go higher than that. And what that says is that they may have left room for a counter-offer if Chevron steps up its bid.

GRANT: CNOOC is China's third biggest oil firm. It wants to boost its standing. It's also eyeing Unocal's extensive assets in Asia.

The corporate muscle joins China's diplomatic offensive to keep the oil pumping. China's oil imports have doubled in the past five years. It ranks only behind the United States as the world's biggest oil customer.

It's ready to begin filling its first strategic oil reserve and stockpile 100 million barrels of oil. It is prepared to do deals with rogue states to get what it needs.

DAVID ZWEIG, POLITICAL ANALYST: Sudan, Iran, states that clearly the United States has said their behavior is inappropriate and should be sanctioned, China is there with good ties with these states and, to a certain extent, protecting them.

GRANT: The U.S., the world's super power, and its emerging rival, China, facing off in politics and business for control of one of the world's most precious resources.

Stan Grant, CNN, Beijing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: From one oily situation to the next. Stocks are sliding on Wall Street as oil prices hit record highs. Kathleen Hays has the story live from the New York Stock Exchange right now.

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: A look at our top stories "Now in the New."

Police in New Jersey are searching for three children who went missing in Camden. The three boys, ages 5, 6 and 11, were last seen yesterday afternoon near their home. Police are going door to door and also using helicopters in that search.

U.N. human rights experts say they have reliable information that prisoners at Guantanamo Bay were tortured. They say the U.S. government did not answer a request in January of last year to visit the facility. U.S. officials say that prisoners are visited regularly by the International Red Cross.

Budget woes in the Veteran's Administration. A top official in the Department of Veterans Affairs told a House hearing the VA's healthcare budget faced a $1 billion shortfall this year. He blames the deficit in part on increased medical needs of troops returning from Iraq and Afghanistan. And you can check out CNN's most popular video of the day at CNN.com. Just click on the video link at our Web site. It's a whole new way to experience the power of CNN video, and it's free at CNN.com.

And some new developments in the case of the missing Alabama teen in Aruba. Let's go now to Karl Penhaul with the latest on that -- Karl.

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Fredricka, we've just come from talking to Nadira Ramirez. She's the mother of the two Kalpoe brothers who were arrested as suspects in this case, along with Joran Van Der Sloot and Steve Croes. And what she has told us this morning is that her sons have admitted to her that they lied to police initially to try and cover for Joran Van Der Sloot.

Mrs. Ramirez said that, immediately after Natalee's disappearance, her sons had admitted to her that they had driven away with Natalee from the Carlos and Charlie's Bar. And they told her that they drove past the lighthouse. And initially, they told her that they dropped Natalee off at the Holiday Inn. Now, that was the official version of events for several days.

But they then said -- because Mrs. Ramirez visited Satish in prison in the last few days, and she said to her son Satish, you've been lying to me, son. And what Mrs. Ramirez said was that Satish admitted to her that they did not, in fact, drop Natalee off at the Holiday Inn, but instead, dropped her and Joran off at the beach near the Marriott Hotel.

Now, we've tried to talk to the attorney's for John Van Der Sloot. So far, no answer from them. But of course, we are trying to track them down to see what they have to say about this, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right, still some developing angles there in that story. Thanks so much. Karl Penhaul.

Well, the two major parties in Washington are trading insults again. Today, Democrats are calling on President Bush to repudiate his aide Karl Rove for a blanket attack on liberals. In a speech yesterday, Rove said liberals responded to the carnage of 9/11 by calling for indictments rather than force and of promoting understanding for the attackers. Rove's remarks follow a blanket condemnation of conservatives by Democratic chairman Howard Dean, and other partisan sniping that has gotten unusually personal.

Joining me to look at what's going on here, Bob Barr, former Republican Congressman, now a CNN contributor. Good to see you. And Tom Andrews, a former Democratic Congressman from Maine, now national director of the Win Without War Coalition. Good to see you.

TOM ANDREWS, WIN WITHOUT WAR COALITION: Thank you, Fredricka. Good to see you.

WHITFIELD: All right, well, what is going on, gentleman? It seems like there are an awful lot of apologizes going on inside the beltway these days. That seems unusual. Durbin recently making his apologies in -- about remarks associated with Gitmo. It seems as though a climate is bubbling there in Washington. A lot of apologies. What is happening, Bob?

BOB BARR, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think part of it is we're entering the dog days of summer. It got awfully hard -- hot, it gets awfully humid in Washington. And the congressional schedule is sort of at a low ebb and I think that's really a major problem here. And that is, neither party really seems to have a substantive agenda on track.

The Social Security issue is sort of foundering, we have the -- coming off the Schiavo matter that got Congress off on a track. We have everybody waiting for a Supreme Court vacancy that may or may not occur. So I think a lot of this is simply like a bunch of school kids that don't have a clear assignment, so they start sniping at each other. I think it will quiet down later in the year.

WHITFIELD: Well, Tom, is it as simple as that? It's gotten a little juvenile?

ANDREWS: You know, I -- in part. I mean even though Bob is a Republican, he can make sense sometimes. And I think part of what he says is correct. But there's another side to this story and that is, you know, when politics become so expensive, when you have so much time and energy involved in raising money, trying to motivate your base of support, your partisan and ideological base of support, well, then you're going to use what we say in Washington as a technical term, red meat politics. Where you take the red meat and throw it out at your ideological base, motivate them so they'll write more checks, they'll raise more money, they'll go out and organize in the grassroots for your campaign.

And I think a lot of this is the reflection of the power of those narrow interest groups that are very motivated, that those political players in Washington want to appeal to, as opposed to looking at the broad interest of the public.

You know, perfect example yesterday. Here we have runaway gas prices, we have a health crisis, we have a job crisis, we have the Iraq War, and what does the House of Representatives decide is the most important issue to focus on yesterday? A constitutional amendment to ban flag burning. Now, that's not what the American people are waking up and worried about, my God, is our constitution going to change so we can protect the flag? No, not at all. But it's what some narrow interest groups that have a lot at stake in that issue are worried about and so politicians want to play to them...

WHITFIELD: Uh huh.

ANDREWS: ... and score political points so that they can collect those chips when it comes election time. So that's also being...

WHITFIELD: Well, interesting, Tom, I like your analogy using the term red meat. It seems like among the red meat these days seems to be anything military. If anything says anything -- anything remotely disparaging about the military, they are accused of being unpatriotic. In fact, Senator Waxman had this to say on this very topic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. HENRY WAXMAN, (D) CALIFORNIA: It's a form of McCarthyism, where you attack anybody who criticizes, anybody who raises questions, anybody who suggests that maybe Tom Delay is not the only person in the Congress of the United States who has all of the truth.

WHITFIELD: Congressman Waxman. Does he make a very good point at all, Bob?

BARR: Well, I don't think he makes much of a point. I mean, every time one side dislikes what the other side is saying, they always say, oh, that's McCarthyism. It's an overused term that has no meaning. The fact of the matter that the issue, for example, of desecration of the flag, people in Congress -- Tom may not like the issue coming up -- but it is hardly a fringe or extreme issue. About 80 percent of the American people support that amendment.

But the point that he is making, and that is that neither party really seems to have a substantive agenda out there to focus the attention of both its members and the American people, is having an effect on both parties. The figures that we see that congressional approval rates are down in the 30s, for heaven's sake, doesn't do either party proud. And one would hope that both parties would get this thing back on track and get a real substantive agenda out there pretty quick.

WHITFIELD: Well, Tom, does it seem like the party faithful means that you have to react, as some big monolith? I mean, whatever happened to the land of the free, you're able to have an independent thought. And if you perhaps dissent from the majority of your party, I mean, you're un-American?

ANDREWS: Well, I think, Fredricka, the balancing act that we're going to see here is what Bob just alluded to. It's the American people that are really saying, look, a pox on all your houses. We're fed up with this, stop your wrangling and get the work done and do the work that means the most to us, focus on the issues we care about. And I think that is going to help to balance that.

Because, of course, the bottom line is the political interests of these people. And if they see themselves so out of step with the American public, they see both parties being dragged down because of these tactics, you know, they're going to straighten up.

You know, one example of this, what happened last week, when Republican Congressman Walter Jones joined with some -- a very conservative Republican -- joined with some very liberal Democrats, Neil Abercrombie and Dennis Kucinich in introducing a bipartisan resolution to begin to bring the troops home from Iraq. That was a really excellent demonstration of comity, of two sides from the polarized ends of the political spectrum coming together in common cause and joining forces. And I hope that we're going to see more of that kind of cooperation, or it will truly be a pox on everybody's house. WHITFIELD: Well, you know, speaking of the U.S. troops you mentioned, Rahm Emanuel is planning to read off the names of all those U.S. troops with who have died in Iraq and Afghanistan later on today. But somehow, that gesture that's he's proposing is incensing a lot of people. Why is that, Bob?

BARR: Well, here again, I think it's because everybody seems to be pigeonholed by the other side and you can't really say anything about what's going on in Iraq or raise even something that might be impliedly (sic) be a vague criticism of the policies in Iraq without being labeled as unpatriotic. I think that's very unfortunate. I have no idea what Rahm's motivation is in reading those. I would prescribe to him, without any evidence to the contrary, that it's a very patriotic, very appropriate, very honest gesture of concern for the families of those troops and what they have given to this country.

But -- and it's unfortunate that everything seems to be now labeled, as you say, Fredricka either unpatriotic or partisan, when in fact, a lot of this, one, is not unpatriotic, it's not partisan. And one also has to remember that politics in the Congress has always been a contact sport. I mean, it's nothing new to see people going after each other. But the problem now is it seems to be that that's all that's going on. And that hurts both parties.

WHITFIELD: All right, Tom, how do you see it?

ANDREWS: I was going to say, Bob, you're sounding awfully reasonable. I think it's because you've been away from Washington for a few years.

WHITFIELD: You all are in agreement today?

ANDREWS: You know, it's -- I think that's, you know, that's essentially right. And again, I think it's matter of putting the interests of the American people, all the American people, front and center. And if we -- and if the Congress fails to do that, then they're going to be in very deep trouble.

I think what Congressman Emanuel is doing is the right thing. I mean, the focus needs to be on our troops and those families. They have given the ultimate sacrifice. And I think if the Congress pauses for a minute and recognizes one by one those individuals and the sacrifice they made for this country, I think it's time well spent and I congratulate them.

WHITFIELD: All right. Now, you know, it almost seems as though there is an awful lot of pressure, then, coming from the American public with the president's ratings, approval ratings, going down. Certainly, the American people are saying, you know what, perhaps we're tired of this kind of, you know, party fighting -- these two parties, primary parties fighting. Can we get on with the business of the American people? Bob, what does -- what do congressional leaders need to do to convince people that they are about the business of the American people?

BARR: Well, first of all, they need to focus on key issues. The economy, jobs, taxes, Social Security. But to do it in a way that really provides a meaningful explanation to the American people of what they're actually doing, that takes time, it takes hard work.

WHITFIELD: Sorry about that, Bob, we got some breaking news. We need to go back to Aruba. But thank you very much, gentleman. Bob Barr, Tom Andrews, for this spirited discussion.

Now, back to Karl Penhaul on the latest developments in Aruba. Karl, what is the latest?

PENHAUL: Fredricka, we've just came off the phone from the spokesperson of the prosecution service Marianne Cruz, she tells us that Paul Van Der Sloot, the father of the suspect Joran Van Der Sloot has also been arrested. He was arrested about a half hour ago. And that is confirmation from the prosecution's service.

He is now in custody, we are being told. I'm trying to get new information, as we speak. And police and the prosecution service say that he is being interrogated, as we speak.

Now, Paul Van Der Sloot is a judge on the island. And over the past few days, on Saturday and Sunday, he was questioned by police. At that stage, police say he was a witness, not a suspect, but today, about half an hour ago, he was formally arrested, and the prosecution service say he's now being viewed as a suspect connected with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: And Karl, explain us to now. To be arrested as a suspect there, don't necessarily have to have charges right away, based on Aruban law. Explain to us how long the process could last for the father, Paul Van Der Sloot, him being held for continued questioning as well?

PENHAUL: Of course, there are substantial differences, as you point out, between Dutch law and U.S. law. No formal charges have been brought. And those are not needed to make a formal arrest. But at this stage, what the prosecution does is present a menu of accusations. And this menu of accusations are all linked to Natalee Holloway's disappearance.

Now what will happen from now, from the time the interrogation begins -- and we understand that interrogation is now under way, he will be interrogated for six hours. Once that six hour period comes to a close, the prosecution will have to ask a judge to then keep him in custody a further two days so that the interrogation can continue over that time. And at the end of that two day period, he can be held for another eight days for interrogation to be continued.

Obviously, Paul Van Der Sloot will be very familiar with this procedure himself, because as you know Fredricka, he's a judge on this island. And he's father of the youngest suspect on this case, Joran Van Der Sloot.

WHITFIELD: And Karl, this is interesting too, because it was Mr. Van Der Sloot's wife, who had just recently come on our network and other networks this morning, to talk about the fact that her son should no longer be held, because of his age at this point. If he had something to tell, he would have broken down in interrogations thus far. It's a strange coincidence that now this arrest is taking place on the day that Mrs. Van Der Sloot came out to hammer the point home that her son was innocent.

PENHAUL: Indeed. We talked to Anita Van Der Sloot, Joran Van Der Sloot's mother, about two months ago. And I talked to her by telephone last night as well. But that seems to be since Joran Van Der Sloot's attorney approved this kind of media organization.

And then today, as you say, Paul Van Der Sloot is arrested. They may have known this was in the works. There had been a rumor that this was going to happen for some time. In fact days after Judge Van Der Sloot was questioned at the weekend, the indication at that stage being the judge may have heard or seen something that Joran had been doing in the days after Natalee's disappearance.

But obviously, the police, in that questioning period have come across something that they think is far more suspicious and now the prosecution service say they are linking the judge himself to Natalee's disappearance.

WHITFIELD: And Karl, if you don't mind just kind of recapping what the variables of this case are so far, as far as we know, investigators do not have any physical evidence, correct? At this point, just suspects?

PENHAUL: The prosecution nor the police have told us of any physical or any forensic evidence that they have. And of course, we don't have any clue as to the whereabouts of Natalee or of her remains. In fact, what investigators are still saying, is that they don't know whether Natalee is alive or dead.

And the four other suspects already in custody are at this point being accused of murder 1, murder two, but also kidnapping, so that does leave open the possibility that it remains unfound that Natalee could be alive. But nevertheless, they don't need those remains to press ahead with this investigation. And obviously, as I say, today, Judge Van Der Sloot being arrested along now with his 17-year-old son Joran and the two Kalpoe brothers, 21-year-old Deepak, 18-year-old Satish and 26-year-old Steve Cruz -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: And again, Karl, if you could please refresh our memories on the confiscation of vehicles in this case? Any of those vehicles come from the Van Der Sloot family household?

PENHAUL: Two of those, we understand. Three vehicles in total, as far as we understand, have now been confiscated and impounded. One was Deepak Kalpoe's vehicle, a silver/gray Honda, the vehicle that they three young suspects and Natalee drove away with from Carlos and Charlie's bar on the morning of May 30. That has been impounded and parts of that car were sent off to an FBI lab in Quantico, Virginia for analysis. The analysis that was suspected of being blood came back negative.

Subsequently to that, two vehicles were seized from a raid on the Van Der Sloot's house as well. But we've had no word from investigators as to any evidence that may have been throw up in the search of those vehicles, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: So now, five in all in custody. Paul Van Der Sloot the father, who's a judge there, and his 17-year-old son, Joran, also in custody, along with three other young men.

PENHAUL: That's correct, five other people in total. Obviously, Judge Paul Van Der Sloot is the oldest of those, a 26-year-old Steve Cruz, and then three friends, Joran and the Kalpoe brothers.

WHITFIELD: And quickly, Karl, before I let you go, do you know how the arrest went down?

PENHAUL: No, we don't. What we do know, is that it was about a half hour ago, now just after 2:00 p.m. we are being told by the prosecution service. We don't know how many agents were involved in that.

I'm not so sure either that Judge Van Der Sloot was at his home when that arrest went down, because I had been trying to contact Anita Van Der Sloot in the course of the morning. And somebody who said they were a friend answered the telephone and said neither the judge nor Anita were home at the time, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right. Karl Penhaul, thanks very much for that update on this breaking story coming out of Palm Beach, Aruba.

So, once again, about 30 minutes ago, as Karl described, now a fifth suspect arrested in connection with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, that Alabama teen. This fifth suspect now, the father and judge there. Paul Van Der Sloot, the father of the 17-year-old Joran suspect who was among the other men in custody. We'll have more on this, as we get it. We'll be right back.

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WHITFIELD: This story we're following for you, the case of that missing Alabama teen, Natalee Holloway. The investigation in Aruba takes a remarkable turn. The father of one of the suspects and an Aruban judge, Paul Van Der Sloot, arrested just about 30 minutes ago. Now this man, Paul Van Der Sloot, joining his son, a 17-year-old, and three other young men in custody in connection with the investigation of that missing Alabama teen.

Let's go to Karl Penhaul, who has the very latest from Palm Beach, Aruba -- Karl.

PENHAUL: The prosecution service have told us that Judge Paul Van Der Sloot was picked up shortly after 2:00. He has been arrested on suspicion of involvement in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. That according to Mariaine Croes, spokesperson for the prosecution's service.

Now this arrest today, Thursday, comes after Judge Van Der Sloot was questioned over the weekend by police. At that stage, police insisted that Judge Van Der Sloot was being interviewed as a witness, not a suspect, to see what he may have heard or seen from his son Joran Van Der Sloot.

Joran Van Der Sloot, of course, as we know, is one of three young suspects, the last three people known to have seen Natalee outside Carlos and Charlie's bar. They were arrested almost two weeks ago now and until today's arrest, they were the three of four suspects arrested in this case. But with the arrest of Judge Van Der Sloot, there are now five suspects in custody in connection with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

Now what the prosectution's service have told is that Judge Van Der Sloot is now in his first hour of six hours of questioning. When that six hour period comes to an end, the prosecution service will have to apply to a judge in order to keep the -- Mr. Van Der Sloot in custody for a further two days so interrogation can continue.

WHITFIELD: And Karl, what about Beth Twitty, Beth Holloway Twitty? She is staying there, very involved with the investigation, has apparently hired an attorney and has also helped to be a part of bringing in investigative crews from the state, at least outside of the island. What is her reaction to this news?

PENHAUL: Well, we know that Beth Twitty has been informed of this development. So far, no official reaction from her or the rest of the family. That news still soaking in. But what Beth Twitty was telling us last night and also Natalee's father, Dave Holloway, is that they expected more arrests to come in the case, because the FBI had informed them in one of daily briefings that other witnesses were being questioned. So it will come to them as no surprise that more arrests have been made.

I think, though, it will come as some surprise that the judge himself, Paul Van Der Sloot, and father of Joran Van Der Sloot, has been arrested. Although, of course, Natalee's stepfather, George Twitty, for several days now has been voicing sharp criticism of Paul Van Der Sloot, suggesting that he may even have helped Joran or heard something from Yoran in the days after Natalee's disappearance and may have coached him not to say too much to police. That was the view of Natalee's father. He believed that the boys were covering up what had happened.

WHITFIELD: And, Karl, Beth Twitty had most recently met with the Van Der Sloots, right? Talk -- refresh our memories about what her conversation, what her meeting with them was like.

PENHAUL: That, in fact, was a couple of days ago now. Beth Twitty initially characterized that first as a chance meeting, as she was handing out prayer slips in the neighborhood where the Van Der Sloots live. And at that stage, Paul Van Der Sloot and Joran Van Der Sloot's mother Anita invited her in for a chat. They spent about 90 minutes chatting, in fact.

What seems to have actually happened is that Beth Twitty went to the house and was shouting a little bit over the gate, but that meeting did take place about 90 minutes. Beth didn't disclose what went on there for privacy's sake, but she did come out of that meeting looking somewhat drained.

And then yesterday, I talked to Anita Van Van Der Sloot, Joran Van Der Sloot's mother, by telephone. And she said since Joran's arrest that she felt that she was living some kind of crazy nightmare. Obviously, today, with thew news of her husband Paul Van Der Sloot's arrest, that nightmare for Anita Van Der Sloot seems to be deepening.

WHITFIELD: Obviously, the prosecutors for very good reason -- they thought they had very good reason to keep Joran and Judge Paul Van Der Sloot away from one another, banning the judge from being able to visit his son, whereas, in other circumstances, the other four young men, their family members were allowed to visit with them, weren't they?

PENHAUL: It's more to do with Joran's age. As a minor, he's only 17 years old, he is technically allowed and legally allowed a visit from his parents. His mother Anita had been visiting him while he was in the police jail, but his father, by judge's order, was not allowed. Now Paul Van Der Sloot did file a motion to be allowed to see his son in jail. The judge denied that motion. So you're correct there. Paul Van Der Sloot had no contact with his son since his son's arrest.

The other suspects, because they're all adults, aren't legally allowed visits from their parents or family members until they get sent to the correctional institute, the island's prison. And what we do know from a talk this morning to -- with the mother of the Kalpoe brothers and Nadira Ramirez, she has seen her younger son, Satish, since he's been in the correctional institute.

WHITFIELD: And still no charges, however -- refresh our memories -- based on law there, they're allowed to keep them in custody for quite a few days. Is it up to 100 days or something like that?

PENHAUL: Indeed, in fact, they can be held in custody for 146 days, we understand, before the trial. And it's only shortly before the trial that those formal charges need to be lodged, because under Dutch law, once those formal charges are lodged, they can't be modified. But the formal accusation which faces them now is enough to keep them in custody, providing that periodically, the prosecution presents sufficient evidence to the judge.

WHITFIELD: OK, but, of course, the headline here, given that the Judge Paul Van Der Sloot, the father of 17-year-old Joran Van Der Sloot, who is among the four young men being held in connection with this case, has now since been arrested just within the past hour. He will be interrogated for another five hours or so by investigators there. As Karl was explaining to us out of Palm Beach, Aruba.

There, you're seeing the picture of Anita Van Der Sloot, the wife. It was a few days ago, in fact over the weekend, that the judge was being questioned as a witness, is how Karl is describing the prosecutor's language to be. Now, he is a suspect and he is being held, where he is also being interrogated now in connection with the disappearance of Alabama teen, Natalee Holloway.

We'll be right back right after this.

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