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Texas Search Team Joins Hunt for Holloway; A Look Inside Guantanamo Bay

Aired June 24, 2005 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: "Now in the News," smoke above Iraq from a deadly attack against U.S. troops. A military official tells CNN up to six Americans died when a suicide bomber hit a convoy in Fallujah. 13 people were wounded, and women were among the casualties.
We want to take you live now to Camden, New Jersey, where one of the mothers of the three boys missing is speaking to reporters.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please, we just want our kids back. Please, if you're out there, let them go. Danny, you're not -- make it so you could, or Ani, make so where you can be reached. Somebody could grab you. All you got to do is ask for the help, ask for it. We love you. We want you home safe, guys. Please. Thanks.

CHIEF EDWIN FIGUEROA, CAMDEN POLICE DEPT: Let me just again stress that the hotline is 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. And certainly anyone that has any information, no matter what you think it might be, please call that number or call the Camden City Police Department, so that we can continue our investigation and hopefully find these three children.

I would also like to think the law enforcement agencies who have played a vital part in the operation that we've been conducting. Cherry Hill Police Department, the Penn's Hawkin (ph) Police Department, Camden County Prosecutors' Office, along with the New Jersey State Police. Camden City police officers, I'm quite sure you have all seen the effort that has been put forth by the -- all the members of Camden City Police Department and all of the other law enforcement agencies, working in tandem and hopefully to resolve this situation as quickly as possible.

And let me also indicate to you that we are receiving many, many, calls of other individuals that are willing to donate money for the reward and also to help in any way that they can and volunteer in this effort. So, again, I thank you very much.

NGUYEN: That was a live look Camden, New Jersey. You've been listening to a police official and several of the parents of these three missing boys who went missing around 8:00 p.m. Wednesday night. There are their pictures. Anibal Cruz, who is 11; Daniel Agosto, six; Jesstin Pagan, who is five.

Now we learned today that there is a $9,000 cash reward for any information leading to these boys. A search has been underway ever since Wednesday. A three-mile square radius has been set up in this search for the boys. And of course, we'll continue to monitor this and bring you all of the latest developments as they become available to us.

The FBI, speaking of searches, is searching the waters off the coast of Aruba for American Natalee Holloway. The five men held in the teen's disappearance are to be appear in court tomorrow, including the judge arrested yesterday.

And CNN's Alex Quade is in Aruba with the search team from Texas. She joins us by phone to talk about what is happening there. Alex, where is the search crew looking right now?

ALEX QUADE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, hi there, Betty. We are actually embedded with this Texas search team so we can't really give away any exact geographical locations of where they are searching. No specifics or we get kicked away.

But as you can probably see from the video, these -- this search team from Texas, they really hit the ground running here in Aruba. This is their very first full day on the island. And already they've been mapping out the island, they've been scoping possible sites Natalee Holloway may be. And they've been targeting areas for their researches -- their resources and for their volunteers to continue tackling.

NGUYEN: Alex, we were just looking at some video of them digging through some of the dirt there. What kind of tools do they have on site?

QUADE: This -- what you are looking at, this is part of the advanced team. And the full team of volunteers from Texas will be coming in through the course of today. They will actually be bringing in some very specialized equipment. They'll be bringing in the cadaver dogs, they'll be bringing the side-scanning sonar equipment for the dive boats. So at this point, they're waiting for the rest of their troops to arrive and to continue searching for Natalee.

NGUYEN: And tell us about this search team from Texas. Did they come on a volunteer basis? Were they hired by the family? Why did they want to join in this effort?

QUADE: This is really -- it's a very personal mission for each of these volunteers. They are volunteer, nonprofit volunteer organization, Texas EquuSearch. And they really -- they all just want to try to make a difference. They want to try to find Natalee. They have a record in the States of going out on 451 searches, I think, and have a 78 percent record of finding the missing person.

So they're hoping that they will be able to come here and find her. They don't want to go home until they do, but they are also an organization that runs on donations and when their funds run out, they're going to have to go home.

NGUYEN: And quickly, Alex, let me ask you this. Is this still a search and rescue operation at this point?

QUADE: The team is a search and recovery organization, so you can take what you want from that. They are here -- they would love to find Natalee and be able to bring her home, and that is their mission. And this is -- I just want to let you know that this is something that, you know, we are in an embed team.

And tonight on 8:00 p.m. on the "PAULA ZAHN NOW" show, you'll really get to see everything from behind the scenes. And this is stuff that, you know, we'll take you behind the scenes on this concentrated search effort, from Texas all the way following them along to Aruba. We'll show you what they're doing here on the ground today, what they plan to do and really take you there.

NGUYEN: And we're looking forward to that behind-the-scenes look. That's on "PAULA ZAHN NOW," 8:00 p.m. Eastern. Alex, thanks you for that.

Well, joining us now from Philadelphia, international defense attorney Ted Simon. He is defending clients around the world and knows about the laws in Aruba.

Ted, we're going to talk about Paul Van Der Sloot. He has been taken into custody. He is the father of the 17-year-old suspect. Now, in Aruba, it's much different from the U.S. Because you can be taken into custody on just suspicion, correct?

THEODORE SIMON, INTERNATIONAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That's absolutely correct. I mean, the arrest of the father, Paul Van Der Sloot yesterday, was exceedingly dramatic. It may be significant. And the question is whether or not it's going to be effective. But you certainly you put your finger on the point. In Aruba, unlike the United States, all it requires is a reasonable suspicion to arrest someone. There's no need for charges.

In the U.S., you need probable cause, which means facts and circumstances based on reasonably trustworthy information that would warrant a prudent person into believing a crime was committed and the person accused did it. And here, sadly and mysteriously, we really don't -- we don't really know whether or not even a crime has been committed.

NGUYEN: And when it comes to Paul Van Der Sloot, could this be suspicion by association, simply because he is the father of the 17- year-old suspect? Is there a lot of pressure on these investigators to try to come up with something at this point? We're talking a month into the investigation.

SIMON: Without question. I mean, we don't -- even though there's a lower threshold of proof, we don't know if all they have is reasonable suspicion or more. We don't know what the Aruban law enforcement authorities have developed as far as evidence goes and it's very hard to determine what's in their hands, so to speak, without looking at the cards. And I think they're keeping them somewhat close to the vest. We don't know, but I think we should expect that they have looked into the cell phone records of the father, as well as the son and others, from the night that Natalee went missing. That could help them pinpoint where the various people were and whether or not they were awake or talking and whether that's consistent. They've also secured some physical evidence from their home and cars...

NGUYEN: There's some computers taken, correct?

SIMON: ... including two computers. Two computers were taken. One was his business computer. And also, we don't know when they first stopped and questioned these three young men and let them go, was that purposeful? Did they monitor their movements, did they monitor electronically their calls? We'll have to wait and see. Or was the arrest of the father simply based upon inconsistencies in the stories between the son, whose story has been changing, and whatever the father may have said before? This remains to be seen.

And as you just mentioned, the father, as well as some of the others will appear before a judge tomorrow. Because under Aruban law, while you can be interrogated for the first six hours, they have a Miranda warnings down there, they're called cautio (ph) or caution warnings, very similar to Miranda. They have a right to self- incrimination, or to be free from self-incrimination. And they cannot be forced to talk to interrogators.

As well, when they appear before a judge, there will be question of whether or not their detentions can be extended. Initially, a they can be held for two days, extended for eight more to ten. And then two more periods of eight or out to 26, and then thereafter for another 120. So a person can be held for up to 146 days without probable cause, without charge.

NGUYEN: OK, so as we wait to hear tomorrow how all of that plays out in court, I want to ask you one last question. With the father now being arrested, does that put pressure on the son and possibly, are you fearful that it force a false confession, because he's worried about his father now being taken to jail?

SIMON: It's a perceptive question on your part, and an observation. Because there's no question the son has begun to change his story. Now if he continues to change his story and he goes beyond the fact that he said he was with her on the beach, and he says something more -- and even if it's something untoward or problematic, he very may well later recant that and say, listen I only said it because you unjustly arrested my father. I'm willing to say anything to have him released.

And the question is whether or not this pressure is properly placed or whether not. And do -- and we have experienced in this country the occurrence of false confessions. It's a very, very sad, heartbreaking story. We have dueling nightmares between the families. The Holloway Twitty family, obviously our hearts go out to them. And they have the fear of what may have happened to their daughter.

And on the other side, the Van Der Sloots, their nightmare just got worse with the arrest of the father. And the question is -- their fear is what may yet occur. So it's a very troubling, it's very mysterious, and we have to resist the temptation to perceive the worst and keep an open mind and as other people have said, try to keep hope alive.

NGUYEN: Good point. Yeah. As you mention, the biggest question, keeping hope alive -- where is Natalee Holloway.

Ted Simon, thank you for that.

Up next, seeing for themselves.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're on top of a parking garage. And what they do here using their extra eyes, they peer down there to that bar. And they're close enough to tell when anybody too intoxicated may be heading back to the garage to get in their car. That's when they get them.

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NGUYEN: Some residents in Maryland take matters into their own hands in an effort to stop underaged drinkers and DUI offenders. CNN's Randi Kaye has that story ahead on LIVE FROM.

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NGUYEN: Crack down on alcohol offenders -- police and residents join forces in a Maryland county to keep drunken drivers off the streets. It's a unique effort. And it's called Operation Extra Eye. CNN's Randi Kaye reports.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Come on, we've got one buying.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want you guys to be prepared. Come out (ph) that Georgia University, be ready to go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the car that the X-rays (ph) people called out with.

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's Friday night in Montgomery County, Maryland, and there are extra eyes on the street. Those extra eyes don't belong to police.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Like give you the license plate and you can run it to see who this car belongs to, if he's old enough.

KAYE: The extra eyes that local police depend on to help catch under age drinkers and drunken drivers are citizen volunteers. Armed with walkie-talkies, they're part of a late night sting.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anything going on over there?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, it's quiet.

KAYE: We can't identify them and blow their cover, but they are all average suburbanites with a keen interest in keeping drunks off the roads in their community. They include moms who get their nails done, grandmas who sport reading glasses. Every couple of months they leave their families at home and put their eyes to work. A hobby so unusual even close friends are surprised.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They were totally aghast and just couldn't believe that I would spend the night sitting in a car watching a garage or watching a retail store or watching a hotel. So I guess, no, I don't fit in whatever the mold would be.

KAYE: Operation Extra Eyes is the first program of its kind in the country. Volunteers are trained to spot people who may be involved in alcohol-related crimes. Some nights they work surveillance until 2:00 a.m.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Go ahead and come out because a really young looking kid.

KAYE: Sitting outside the beer and wine store in Wheaton this Friday night, the team thinks they've spotted what they call a Mr. Wouldya. That's someone under age who asks an adult to go in and buy alcohol for them. The police check out the citizen's lead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm 21. I (INAUDIBLE) trying to do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where's your I.D. at? You had an I.D.?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean when I lost it, it was in a club. You know what I'm saying?

KAYE: It turns out this man had just lost his I.D. He's free to go. But the night is young.

(on camera): It's about 9:15 here on this Friday night. We've been in this parking lot here in Wheaton, Maryland now for about three hours. Just to give you an idea of how big this Operation Extra Eyes is, we not only have our ladies in the van, but we have undercover officers keeping an eye on the bus stop, keeping an eye on the liquor stores surrounding the area. There are also sheriff's deputies, all part of Operation Extra Eyes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When he walked into the store, he wasn't very steady.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What I want you to do is I want you to step right on over here for me.

KAYE (voice-over): The volunteers had police tail this man. We watched him buy a case of beer, then, so unsteady, struggle to get it into his trunk.

OFC. BILL MORRISON, MONTGOMERY CO., MARYLAND: If you heard his alphabet, that was really bad. KAYE: The driver also fails the balance test and the Breathalyzer.

MORRISON: The gentleman that the civilians just spot had had way too much to drink. He was a .21.

KAYE: Point 21, in Maryland, that's three times the legal limit. Imagine what might have happened if those extra eyes hadn't been watching.

(on camera): Well how do you feel now knowing that you got him off the road?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm happy about that. That's one less person that's on the road tonight.

KAYE (voice-over): Officer Bill Morrison started Extra Eyes three years ago. He had knocked on too many doors, told too many people loved ones had been killed by a drunken driver. His award- winning program helps Montgomery County lead the region in drunken driving arrests.

MORRISON: We're watching one establishment. They're actually watching someplace totally different and we can double our efforts.

KAYE (on camera): Right now it's about 11:00, we've moved to Bethesda, Maryland. We're on top of a parking garage. And what they do here using their extra eyes, they peer right down there to that bar. And they're close enough to tell when anybody too intoxicated might be heading back into this garage to get inside their car, and that's when they get them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This guy in the white shirt, they're walking, but he was drinking out of a beer can and just dropped it in the -- threw it in the garage.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The troopers are going to head that way.

KAYE (voice-over): The troopers have the group identified and surrounded in minutes. Only one of the men owns up to drinking a beer. The citizens saw two.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who had a beer and threw it out on the ground?

KAYE: The volunteers pick up the evidence and identify the men for police. Two citations are given for public intoxication. The volunteers hope that's enough to make these guys think twice about getting behind the wheel.

(on camera): So I have to ask, why do you spend your nights like this, driving around in your own car, using your own gas, and you don't get paid a penny for it?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To make it a safer community. I mean that's what it's for. To get the people, like the one in the white Cougar was a .21, off the street or to make sure that the kids don't buy alcohol and get so intoxicated that they get alcohol poisoning.

KAYE (voice-over): Their time, their eyes, determined to make a difference in their community.

Randi Kaye, CNN, Montgomery County, Maryland.

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NGUYEN: We have just established a line to Guantanamo Bay, to our military analyst General Don Shepperd. He arrived there as part of a trip put together by the Pentagon in wake of that human rights report that criticized conditions at the U.S. prison for war detainees. General Shepperd on the phone with us right now.

General Shepperd, what do you see so far while being there?

MAJ. GEN. DONALD SHEPPERD, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, I tell you what, Betty, I'm seeing a lot of rain right now. I thought Cuba was dry and we're in (INAUDIBLE) rain storm. But I tell you, every American should have a chance to see what our group saw today. The impressions that you're getting from the media and from the various pronouncements being made by people who have not been here, in my opinion, are totally false.

What we're seeing is a modern prison system of dedicated people, interrogators and analysts that know what they are doing. And people being very, very well-treated. We've had a chance to tour the facility, to talk to the guards, to talk to the interrogators and analysts. We've had a chance to eat what the prisoners eat. We've seen people being interrogated. And it's nothing like the impression that we're getting from the media. People need to see this, Betty.

NGUYEN: All right. You said you got to talk to the interrogators and the guards. Let's start with the interrogators. What have they told you so far?

SHEPPERD: The interrogators -- basically we have the opinion from things that we've heard that people down here have been mistreated. Everyone that we've talked to -- and this is consistent with things I've known from the past -- every interrogator will tell you that the key to getting information you need is to establish a personal relationship based upon respect over a long period of time with the people.

People won't talk necessarily at first, but eventually, they will begin to talk and you'll get pieces of information that you can fit together with pieces of information from somewhere else. But they say pressure does not work, disrespect does not work, and torture is absolutely something that is counterproductive.

You need to make to make people feel comfortable and comfortable with you to get the information you need. And that came from everyone, men and women, that were interrogators down here. And again, it's consistent with what I've heard in this past.

NGUYEN: Now, this leads me to my next question. Of course, this was a trip organized by the Pentagon. So do you feel like you're getting full access to everything there? Are you seeing a true picture of how it is?

SHEPPERD: Yes, that's always a good question. But I tell you that they are proud to have people down here, including the press, to see what we are seeing. Obviously, they're going to put their best foot forward, And obviously, no matter where you are, there will be from time to time abuses or people misusing or disobeying the regulations, no matter where you are in the process.

But I tell you, I have been in prisons and I have been in jails in the United States, and this is by far the most professionally-run and dedicated force I've ever seen in any correctional institution anywhere.

NGUYEN: You also mentioned that you have spoken with guards. What are they saying?

SHEPPERD: Very interesting. I had lunch with a -- one of the female guards and then I talked to a group of male guards as well. I said, do you ever see anything go on here that resembles mistreatment of the prisoners or mistreatment by the prisoners of guard? And they say, we're on alert all the time. They're not armed when they're around the guards for obvious reasons. You don't do that because weapons can be taken and used against you.

But basically, they treat the prisoners firmly, with respect. They don't engage in a lot of banter with them. And they say that the prisoners do things that we've heard about in the media. They sometimes get riled and they'll throw feces, they'll throw urine at the guards. But this entire system is based upon compliance. In other words, if you comply with the rules, you're going to be treated well, you're going to be given more privileges, just like any detention facility. And if you don't, your life is going to be much more miserable than those who do.

So all of the guards seem to be very professional. None of them that I talked to have observed anything in the way of mistreatment or any really bad incidents. So the biggest thing, they say, is the violence between the prisoners themselves. A lot of the prisoners don't like each other. They're from different countries.

NGUYEN: On the flip side, have you had access to the prisoners themselves and what are their conditions?

SHEPPERD: We have not had access to the prisoners themselves. We are told what they are and we have seen all the facilities and we have watched interrogations. We just watched interrogations of two high-value prisoners -- what they can determine is high-value targets or high-value prisoners that have been here for a considerable amount of time. The facilities are basic of prisoners anywhere.

We've seen the cells. They're seven-by-eight foot cells. They're clean. They have a toilet in the facility, they have and a water fountain in the facility. They have a bed. They're given the Koran, they're given a mattress, they're given clothes, recreational things such as playing cards, chess, checkers, that type of things.

We have not had access to talk to the prisoners. And again, that's one thing that you've got to be very careful of. You want to establish a prisoner relationship with the interrogators and not have that proliferated with other people.

NGUYEN: Let's back up for just a moment, because you said you said watched an interrogation.

SHEPPERD: Yes.

NGUYEN: Kind of explain to us how that played out. And were there any instances of abuse or possible abuse?

SHEPPERD: Absolutely not. These -- when I sat and watched them, I want to be very careful in describing them. And I don't want to describe how we watched or anything of that sort. But basically, you're able to observe interrogations. They have various ways of monitoring the interrogations and what have you and letting you see what's going on. With the interrogations that we watched were interrogators, there were translators that translated for the detainee and there were also intelligence people in there.

And they're basically asking questions. They just ask the same questions over a long period of time. They get information about the person's family, where they're from, other people they knew. All the type of things that you would want in any kind of criminal investigation. And these were all very cordial, very professional. There was laughing in two of them that we...

NGUYEN: Laughing in an interrogation?

SHEPPERD: ... in the two of them that we watched. Yes, indeed. It's not -- it's not like the impression that you and I have of what goes on in an interrogation, where you bend people's arms and mistreat people. They're trying to establish a firm professional relationship where they have respect for each other and can talk to each other. And yes, there were laughing and humor going on in a couple of these things. And I'm talking about a remark made where someone will smirk or laugh or chuckle.

NGUYEN: All right. General Don Shepperd, we appreciate your time and that look inside Gitmo, with you being there on this tour. Thank you for that.

And of course, we invite you to stay tuned, because there's much more LIVE FROM coming up.

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