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Second Shark Attack in Florida After Weekend Death; BTK Killer Tells All

Aired June 27, 2005 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DENNIS RADER, ALLEGED BTK KILLER: I manually strangled her when she started to scream.

JUDGE GREGORY WALLER: So you used your hands?

RADER: Yes, sir.

WALLER: When you strangled her, did she die?

RADER: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: With surreal calm and chilling clarity, a serial killer describes his crimes in court. We're live from Wichita, Kansas.

Shark attacks in Florida. A new one today in the Gulf of Mexico. New information expected to be released this hour. The death of a 14- year-old girl over the weekend. We should get her autopsy results.

Does God's law belong in the courthouse? Two contradictory Supreme Court rulings on displaying the Ten Commandments.

From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Kyra Phillips. This hour of CNN's LIVE FROM starts right now.

We begin with that second shark attack now we've been reporting in -- or reporting on, rather, outside of Florida. This one happening not far from the first one we heard about over the weekend. This area, Cape San Blas.

Christa Hild from Bay Medical Center in Panama City, Florida, joins us on the phone to tell us about the second victim and his condition.

What can you tell us, Christa?

CHRISTA HILD, BAY MEDICAL CENTER: The patient arrived here shortly before noon. And at this point, our ER reports that the patient is in critical condition with severe injuries, and has currently been transferred up to the OR.

PHILLIPS: So, can we confirm, Christa, that indeed it is a shark attack?

HILD: Yes, we can.

PHILLIPS: Can you tell me where exactly the injuries are?

HILD: Unfortunately, I don't have that information at this time.

PHILLIPS: Can you tell us the age of the boy? We were telling -- or we were told by a reporter there on the scene possibly 16 years old?

HILD: I have only heard this information from other inquiries. Unfortunately, I can't provide that information from the patient file.

PHILLIPS: OK. So Christa, the reporter was telling us it was a 16-year-old boy out there fishing when attacked. Do you know if indeed that the victim was in the water or in a fishing boat, or how exactly this attack went down?

HILD: Unfortunately, I don't have that information. I only know that the patient has arrived here and -- from Cape San Blas in our neighboring Gulf County. And as soon as we've had a chance to speak with the family, we may have more information.

PHILLIPS: And Christa, my final question, when you get a victim, a shark attack victim like this, do you do anything from, I guess, a precautionary standpoint to alert others that are out in the water right now in this same area that they shouldn't be out swimming? Is there any type of special alert that goes out through the EMTs or through medical support?

HILD: Well, from the hospital, usually the EMT works very closely with emergency management operations. This, of course, happened in our neighboring Gulf County. And typically, if it were Bay County, emergency operation might close the beach or warn of marine pests in the water. And I would assume Gulf County would do the same thing.

PHILLIPS: All right. Christa Hild there from the Bay Medical Center in Panama City, Florida. Thank you so much for your time, just updating us there on the second shark -- shark attack victim there in the waters of Florida.

This one happening about 40 miles from the original attack that happened over the weekend. A 14-year-old girl who lost her life after a surfer actually desperately tried to save her when that attack happened.

We are hearing that we could get the autopsy results this hour. They will be coming to us live.

As we look at a live picture here now, I am told that Lieutenant Frank Owens from the Walton County Sheriff's Department, also Captain Danny Glidewell, from the sheriff's department, in addition to Erich Ritter, who's with the Shark Research Institute, these three individuals will be holding a press conference. We will take it live. So there's a number of questions, of course, we'll ask. And that is, in light of the second attack, could this happen again? What's the situation with these sharks out there in the water as a lot of people are heading to the area for their vacations? And, of course, the autopsy results on what type of shark could have attacked that 14- year-old young girl that died over the weekend.

And now another attack, we are told, possibly a 16-year-old boy as he is in critical condition at the Bay Medical Center in Panama City, Florida. We'll continue to update you on these shark attacks as soon as we get more information. And we'll take, of course, that news conference live.

Well, closing the books on BTK the very day jury selection was supposed to begin in the multiple murder case that terrorized the Wichita area for decades. Ten pleas of guilty from the former church elder and Boy Scout leader on trial. But the real drama came after Dennis Rader told Judge Greg Waller that he did it. In chilling detail, yet entirely devoid of emotion, Rader explains how he did it, how and when and where he committed each of 10 cold-blooded murders between 1974 and 1991.

Our coverage begins with CNN's Jonathan Freed. He's in Wichita.

It was pretty chilling -- John.

JONATHAN FREED, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, Kyra.

I can tell you that today Dennis Rader ended that speculation. You are absolutely right. He told this community that has been on pins and needles for four months waiting to find out whether or not he did the crimes that he was accused of said to this community, "I am the BTK strangler. I am the person that had been stalking you for the last three decades."

Now, once they got beyond that, and once the judge was satisfied that Mr. Rader understood what he was doing by pleading guilty to the 10 counts of murder, murders that happened between 1974 and 1991, he wanted to engage Mr. Rader in enough conversation, the judge did, to satisfy him that he was aware, that he could be satisfied that Mr. Rader did, indeed, commit the crimes that he had admitted to.

Now, one of the -- one of the most interesting exchanges -- and a lot of this was very graphic testimony that we heard today -- one of the more interesting ones occurred when Mr. Rader explained to the judge some of his methods of being a serial killer. Let's listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RADER: If you read much about serial killers, they go through what they call different phases. That's one of the phases they go through, is a trolling stage.

Basically, you are looking for a victim at that time. And you can trolling for months or years. But once you lock in on a certain person, you become -- stalking. And that might be several of them, but you really hone in on that person.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FREED: Now, Dennis Rader today also admitted to killing one of his neighbors, and that would be one of the 10 counts that he was faced with. And now let's listen to him on how he was keeping an eye on his neighbor leading up to that crime.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALLER: You indicated this woman lived down the street from you. Did she know you?

RADER: Casually. We'd walk by and wave. She liked to work in her yard, as well as I liked to work. It's a neighborly type thing. It wasn't anything personal. I mean, just a neighbor.

WALLER: All right. So she was in her bed when you turned on the lights in the bathroom?

RADER: Yes, the bathroom -- yes, so I could get some light in there.

WALLER: All right. What did you do then?

RADER: Well, I manually strangled her when she started to scream.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FREED: Now, Kyra, I think everybody here today was struck by the graphic nature of the testimony, but also, Kyra, by the very dispassionate way in which Dennis Rader explained what he had been doing in response to the judge's questioning. I've been covering this story for more than a year. I was aware of many of those details myself, and even I was taken aback listening to it, just listening to the calm and methodical way that he laid out what he did -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Jonathan Freed, thank you.

Well, the guilty pleas shocked not only Jonathan, but a lot of people, most of us. But not Rader's lawyers. There wasn't any plea deal with prosecutors, but there was a mountain of evidence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE OSBURN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: From the legal standpoint, we had nothing to work with. And once Mr. Rader understood that, we pretty much became focused on entering his plea this morning. And although the factual basis went beyond what we expected greatly, things went pretty much according to our plan, and now we will proceed to sentencing on the 17th of August.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: And for D.A. Nora Foulston, it's more than just a victory. She says -- and we quote -- "Today we have a resolution, not to mention a peek into the mind of a monster."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NORA FOULSTON, DISTRICT ATTORNEY: I was not surprised by Mr. Rader's presentation. Mr. Rader wants to be in control. But it was obvious that Judge Greg Waller was in control of this courtroom today, and will be and continues to be in control of his courtroom.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Well, over the years, many of BTK's communications, his clues, codes, tauntings and tirades have been directed at Wichita TV station KAKE. Larry Hatteberg is a longtime anchor there, and he joins us with his take on the day's events.

Larry, this must have been amazing after following this case for so many years, receiving these letters, and then sitting in the courtroom and listening to Rader.

LARRY HATTEBERG, ANCHOR, KAKE-TV: It was absolutely amazing. The courtroom was so quiet as Dennis Rader recounted and told in great detail, excruciating detail, how he killed each one of the 10 people. To be in the courtroom and to listen, first of all, it was totally unexpected. But I have to tell you, as he was talking, because he talked like he was talking about things he got at the grocery store, very nonchalant and no apologies nothing like that, no remorse, it did make my blood curl. It was just -- my skin just crawled being in there and listening to that.

PHILLIPS: Were you surprised that this happened, that he stood up and started giving all these details and basically confessing to everything he's done over the past 20 years?

HATTEBERG: Well, I wasn't surprised once the judge started prompting him. You see, the judge acted as a reporter. He basically did our job in the courtroom to bring out Dennis Rader. And Dennis Rader, once he got started, he gave all the details that he possibly could.

And the judge just kept questioning and questioning and questioning on each count. And as he talked, it just became more obvious that Dennis Rader wanted to talk. And this morning he certainly did.

PHILLIPS: Larry Hatteberg, the one that read a number of those letters for many years, and then sitting in the courtroom today listening to it straight out of the horse's mouth. Pretty amazing.

Larry, thank you so much.

HATTEBERG: Sure. Thank you.

PHILLIPS: Well, our other big story that we've been talking about today, we're starting to get in new details right now. So we've got to move on and talk about the victim of today's shark attack battles -- or he battles for his life, rather, as this happened. And an autopsy is being performed -- or an autopsy, rather, has been performed on Jamie Marie Daigle today. You'll remember she's the young woman that was attacked over the weekend and lost her life. And a shark expert is on hand now to lend his expertise about the shark that killed the 14-year-old Louisiana girl. Authorities hope that he'll be able to tell them more about the type and size of the shark involved.

Let's go ahead and listen in. This is Erich Ritter with the Shark Research Institute.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

QUESTION: ... sharks that maybe have not had greater patrol (ph) presence. (INAUDIBLE), what would you say to other counties who are here and some who are here who have never maybe had an attack along their area? What would you say to these folks who are really watching what you are saying today?

ERICH RITTER, SHARK RESEARCH INSTITUTE: (INAUDIBLE) they are too close to piers (INAUDIBLE). I mean, this is something we have to (INAUDIBLE). But on the other hand, frankly, when swimmers are too far out where it cannot be controlled (INAUDIBLE), then definitely it's unsafe. So we really have to change this -- this idea that people can only swim as far out as lifeguards can (INAUDIBLE).

QUESTION: How do you balance this between tourist towns like Destin and other towns all along Florida. This is hot tourist season. The last thing you want is any kind of news saying (INAUDIBLE).

RITTER: Well, you see, the problem is, how do you explain it to the parents? Gee, you know, people would have (INAUDIBLE) a little smart if you would have closed the beach prior to the incident because it was unsafe to swim. So I have to say safety first, no matter how many people lose money in the process.

QUESTION: Have you gotten (ph) any information on those new attacks being reported down in Gulf County?

RITTER: Not yet. I do not really have any information. But I was told we have a little -- some updates on it, but I have not investigated that case.

QUESTION: So no word yet as to whether that was a shark as well?

RITTER: Chances are. But again, it would be so nice to say for sure (INAUDIBLE).

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) wondering, is it possible the same shark that attacked another human? Or is that unlikely?

RITTER: No, it's unlikely. I mean, the case that we had two days ago, and the one over there, this is not related. So it's not that one shark would do this. And again, you know, we have to first figure out what is it truly a bull shark, what size was it, and (INAUDIBLE) remote chance (INAUDIBLE). QUESTION: What might the girls have done in terms of how they reacted, including initially seeing the shark, that perhaps may have attracted the shark more towards them and kept that shark in the area?

RITTER: I mean, they were standing, boogie-boarding. So splashing, definitely, increases the chance that you can attract sharks. They were not aware of it. So they maybe frolicking around. They were just having fun. So (INAUDIBLE) some reaction (INAUDIBLE).

QUESTION: What about yesterday, the sightings off of the beach very close by the same proximity where this attack occurred? Any indication that we'll see anymore today?

I mean, obviously, the sharks are still out there. But there were quite graphic pictures of sharks very close into the shoreline yesterday.

RITTER: I mean, I would say we are just more sensitive right now. They have been there the whole week. They've been there year round. But now that we have an accident, all of a sudden 200 people look for it instead of one person. We see more because more people watch, but they're there all the time.

QUESTION: But extremely close into the shoreline?

RITTER: Yes. Some of them come in close. The question, of course, is why do they come that close?

If you have like a change of water temperature, a change of currents, that changes how many fish you have from shore. The shark naturally follows them. And it doesn't matter if it's daytime hours. They feed when they have the food present.

QUESTION: What makes you believe this is a six-foot bull shark? What led you to determine that it was that type of shark or that size?

RITTER: (INAUDIBLE) the bite radius. Again, that I normally compare to regular jaws that we have on file.

QUESTION: Do they tend to leave more multiple bite marks?

RITTER: Normally (INAUDIBLE). Again, this is a very rare case where the shark hits (INAUDIBLE).

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: Dr. Ritter (INAUDIBLE), can you tell us, what are the clues that you look at to tell you that this was a (INAUDIBLE) as opposed to a (INAUDIBLE)? What are the things that you see?

RITTER: You have (INAUDIBLE). Sometimes you have a very superficial wound where the shark just grabs a person. And then you have a secondary wound, where the person is able to pull the leg away.

If you have a competitive bite, you have several bites. It's like when human beings hit each other for a few times, come on, come on, let go.

Then again, you have other bites where you have actually tissue loss. So all these different types of wounds so different motivation.

So again, we're not really done yet with this investigation (INAUDIBLE) scenario to come to a full understanding what truly happened out there.

QUESTION: Do you think this shark thought that the girl might be in competition with him for the big fish? Is that the scenario?

RITTER: That is exactly what I'm saying to you. But again, we have to evaluate all the data (INAUDIBLE).

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)? Did they disrupt the sandbars and maybe making the sharks come in closer to shore?

RITTER: (INAUDIBLE). But, of course, it does affect the entire food chain. So, yes, if you change a sandbar (INAUDIBLE), you change the current, that will bring in other sharks. And if you have some (INAUDIBLE) the hurricane season last year created, you have to (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma'am, you have a question?

QUESTION: I did have a question. I think (INAUDIBLE).

QUESTION: Dr. Ritter, if you could, we were speaking with the folks (INAUDIBLE) there today, who were asking me point blank, "What the hell is going on in Florida?"

And I tried to tell them, "Look, it's not a big deal." You know, you tend to blow things out of perspective. If you (INAUDIBLE) national, international audience who is watching some of this, what would you say? Because the truth is this is a natural occurrence. What happened?

RITTER: Well, so far, we are still within the numbers. Last year we had about 12. This year we have much more already percentage- wise. (INAUDIBLE), the year before we had 30.

So this is Florida. We have the longest beaches in the world. So the (INAUDIBLE) chances are there is a close encounter is greater over here. So unfortunately it is the way it is. But it's not unusual.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) shark attacks along our coastline (INAUDIBLE). So is there any phenomenon that might be happening? You mentioned hurricanes maybe changing the shape of the sandbars and so forth. Do you think that that -- since we now have two shark attacks in a pretty close area, is that what you are leaning towards, is this hurricane?

RITTER: I'm running a project where we actually test the very sensitivity of (INAUDIBLE) reef sharks (INAUDIBLE). So actually, we (INAUDIBLE). So will be working on it as we speak.

QUESTION: Dr. Ritter, there's always been some speculation when people have been attacked by sharks that perhaps they had a wound, an injury, a bleeding wound, perhaps the young lady was menstruating. Is it possible those types of things could have also triggered some type of response from the shark to attack her, make her more likely a victim?

RITTER: No. We have never, ever had actually a case where human blood would have triggered a reaction. And all the recent tests we've done, they haven't (ph) indicated human blood actually is a trigger. So I would not use this as a possibility.

QUESTION: OK.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) big fish around the girls at the time?

RITTER: We assume that the bait fish were there. Very often, when you are swimming in the open water, you (INAUDIBLE) fish at your body, because (INAUDIBLE) actual structure, you create a current, the current brings in food, the fish comes because of (INAUDIBLE). So if you have a feeding shark and you have bait fish, the bait fish will naturally go to the structure, which then takes them to the girls.

QUESTION: Dr. Ritter, what do you think of these people -- we saw them last night -- who were out here after dark swimming there in the water, maybe five, six feet out, what would you -- how would you classifies the people? And be honest. I mean, what would you say?

RITTER: Shall I say a nice term or...

QUESTION: No, be honest.

RITTER: Idiots. I mean, why push it?

I mean, we recreate scenarios on a daily basis, and we work at night as well. And -- but sometimes we have to say, we have to draw a line somewhere.

So if you just think, well, I'm doing what I can do, or because I want to be out there, you know, what you create is such a hazardous scenario. If you (INAUDIBLE). You create a frenzy and all of a sudden jaws is back.

QUESTION: In this area where she was swimming apparently did not have lifeguards stationed there. Had there been any there, could you see any change in the outcome? How might things be different?

RITTER: I don't think there would have been a change because, again, if you cannot see that far out to where you can see to the ground, that you actually see shadows, there's nothing you can do. That's why I really wouldn't (INAUDIBLE) if the water is murky, we have to set an outer limit where we actually can see any shadow that moves in.

QUESTION: As Fourth of July weekend is coming up now, and, you know, certainly people across the country are hearing about shark attacks, which generally leads to panic, should people be panicking, should they be cautious? What should people be taking away from this?

RITTER: I think they should -- they should do whatever they like to do. I just think that the Coast Guard should be a little more aware of what's going on.

Nicely put. Very often (INAUDIBLE), but they are not watching what's going out, because (INAUDIBLE). Let them know. Don't swim too far out, if I can't control it.

QUESTION: Would a responsible lifeguard on duty have allowed those girls to go out that far?

RITTER: In my personal opinion, no.

QUESTION: And if a lifeguard had been there urging them to stay back, a life lifeguard could have saved their lives?

RITTER: My personal opinion, they should have called them in. (INAUDIBLE), you are really in their territory. So going out there is risky.

QUESTION: Do you draw any comparisons between this and the Jesse Arbogast attack?

RITTER: No. Jesse Arbogast, I mean, he was bitten in the eating hours, very close to the shore. He had a low tide (INAUDIBLE) going on. So he was riding the (INAUDIBLE) trail. He was playing around.

He created sound. (INAUDIBLE) the shark just bit him in his lower arm and thigh. And the second part was stress, meaning the shark let go of Jesse (INAUDIBLE), and he hit the shark. The shark grabbed him, holding on to the arm, and through that process it ripped off his arm. So these two scenarios are not comparable at all.

QUESTION: Can we be briefed now on the Walton County?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. That's the next thing.

Chief Hallman will tell us what he knows about Gulf County.

CHIEF LES HALLMAN, SOUTH WALTON FIRE DISTRICT: Good afternoon, everyone. I'm Chief Les Hallman, South Walton Fire District.

(INAUDIBLE) has a working relationship (INAUDIBLE) in providing the air medical service to this area called Air Park (ph). Before lunch today, Air Park II (ph), which is based out of (INAUDIBLE) was dispatched to the Gulf County area for what has been reported as a shark attack.

The information we're getting, understand this is second, third- hand information. I urge you to contact Gulf County authorities for specific information, but the information we are getting was there were three approximately 16-year-old males. They were in an area called Cape San Blas in Gulf County. The three males were fishing, and they were in what's been described as chest-deep water. So they weren't that far from shore. But they were fishing with shrimp. And the victim was struck unexpectedly. They did not see the shark before the shark attacked.

QUESTION: Struck where?

HALLMAN: I can't give you specifics on injuries to the patient, but the patient was considered critical. And the patient has been transported to Bay Medical Center in Panama City. And I don't have any additional information or update since the patient was taken to Bay Medical Center.

QUESTION: Do you know how the (INAUDIBLE) got back to shore?

HALLMAN: Again, the doctor might be better at this than I am. Additional (INAUDIBLE) for a 16-year-old. They probably were not past the sandbar that we keep talking about. I would say they were probably close to the sandbar, but not past the sandbar that you keep hearing us referring to in this area.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

HALLMAN: I have no idea. And the information I'm getting is very sketchy.

QUESTION: So any victim account -- or witness accounts as to what kind of shark or how large a shark?

HALLMAN: No, ma'am. Not at all.

QUESTION: Any specific location?

HALLMAN: All I can tell you is the Cape San Blas area is the best I can give you. When we did hear reports of this we immediately notified the sheriff's office to see if there was any information we could get with regard to Walton County.

I have been in contact with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, who has also been assisting us with the information and how we can better protect the public to make sure there's not any correlation between the two incidents. As soon as the U.S. Fish and Wildlife heard that these gentlemen were fishing, they immediately said a whole different situation.

And I hope you understand. They compared it as apples to oranges. And also (INAUDIBLE), Cape San Blas is probably 60 miles- plus away from Walton County.

QUESTION: I don't know how this works when it comes to sharks. Obviously I've read somewhere that you don't know for sure which shark has attacked a human. But if there was a way that you did identify the shark, are they put down or are they -- or do you do any -- is there any protocol against these sharks?

RITTER: Normally -- normally you don't catch the shark. Sometimes, you know, it depends where you are. They are called bounty hunters, but normally the animal is not caught. And if it's caught, yes, then we dissect the animal to see if there is any anomaly, excessive brain damage, malnourished animal. Yes, then we do a complete dissection.

QUESTION: I had another question (INAUDIBLE). Do you know if the beach is still closed and how long it will remain...

HALLMAN: Again, we have not talked to the Gulf County authorities yet. And, you know, More information (INAUDIBLE) specific, I ask that you contact the Gulf County authorities.

QUESTION: Any indication as to what sort of investigation or why they've closed it, what they would be doing now? Is it for their safety purposes, or is it to better understand the events?

HALLMAN: I can tell you from the Walton County standpoint, when the incident occurred here in Walton County, very quickly (INAUDIBLE) sheriff's office decided it was in the public safety's best interest to immediately close the beach. Again, this is such a rare incident. I'm a fourth generation from this area, and as (INAUDIBLE) pointed out, the first time in 100-year history in Walton County such an incident happened. So we immediate said, let's close the beach, reevaluate what's going in, bring in the experts to make sure we are doing everything we can to keep the public safe in Walton County.

QUESTION: Today in Walton County are there purple flags flying?

HALLMAN: Yes. We've (INAUDIBLE) beautiful, but we have added the purple flags to make sure everyone is aware of what's going on.

As (INAUDIBLE) pointed out, the sheriff's beach patrol has doubled their numbers. I know that even our firefighters are on the beaches. And we're making close contact with the public and making them aware of the situation. We're just making them -- sure that they understand that they are swimming in a natural environment, the Gulf of Mexico, and sharks are present there.

QUESTION: Chief Hallman, yesterday I was out on the beach shooting some footage after we spoke, and you just brought up an interesting point. This young man that was attacked in the Gulf County apparently was out in the water fishing with his comrades or fellows. And I happened to be, you know, on the beach near the location of the original attack, and there were gentlemen there fishing from the beach.

How would you address that as a -- I'm a native here in this area, too. That's a no-no, especially when there are kids and people and all kinds of things all around you.

This guy was just casting right off the beach. As a chief, and someone who patrols the beaches regularly, and with the sheriff's office, have they addressed this? Is that going to be something that we're going to see, you know, hey, guys, this is not a smart thing to do? Or will there be fines imposed, you know, some type of (INAUDIBLE)? HALLMAN: I'll (INAUDIBLE), and then (INAUDIBLE) might want to follow up.

You know, at least once a year we are approached by the media on water safety overall, and we always talk about sharks and what a person can do to protect themselves. And we've always had the same, you know, concerns: stay close to shore, don't swim near bait fish, and we've always said don't swim near someone who is fishing.

A step further than that -- and (INAUDIBLE) will correct me -- currently the Walton County ordinance is it is against the law to chum from the beach. And if you're not familiar with chumming -- and I think most of you are and know what I'm talking about -- that is against Walton County ordinances today.

QUESTION: Erich, if you could a little bit, the chief was saying that, you know, the consultation with yourself maybe, do you think that the beach was open too quickly after this little girl died? Do you think there's pressure on communities to open these things up awfully fast because it's the tourist season?

RITTER: I mean, (INAUDIBLE). I mean, you have to serve different parties here. But again, if you have passing bait fish, this bait fish would -- again, would be passed. And if you have at least one (INAUDIBLE) high tide, you can change the scenario completely. So you definitely (INAUDIBLE) have a completely different scenario. So (INAUDIBLE).

QUESTION: Dr. Ritter, can you explain the inherent danger in standing up to your waist in water, fishing with live bait, bringing it toward you in terms of the inherent danger of a shark attack?

RITTER: I actually had a case that I had to investigate, and recreated that case. And we have (INAUDIBLE) video cameras, and of us fishing. And I wasn't even five minutes fishing when a bull shark actually hit me in the side.

So it's definitely not a wise thing to do. People should use more common sense. Even nowadays when everybody is talking about what's going on, it's pushing their luck.

QUESTION: Dr. Ritter, when they were bringing the young lady back in yesterday, the surfer (INAUDIBLE) his nose but did not attack him? What -- why (INAUDIBLE)?

RITTER: It's very hard. I mean, if we rationalize it, we (INAUDIBLE). You know, people say he's so -- he was confused. But I believe that these people were still triggering a reaction. (INAUDIBLE) with the situation. They want to figure out, what is all this? They don't know what human beings are. So we may (INAUDIBLE) creating a sensory overload to the animals. (INAUDIBLE) we have no clue what we're creating. So the animal was -- at that point, which was (INAUDIBLE).

QUESTION: Can we ask a question (INAUDIBLE)? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When Chris (ph) is finished, then we'll dismiss and then if you have any individual questions that you'd like to ask, they'll be happy to stay around.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello. I'm Chris Tuckets (ph). I'm the executive director of the Tourist Development Council of Walton County.

QUESTION: Chris, I was wondering, you know, someone had mentioned lifeguards. What is that (INAUDIBLE) now in re-evaluating whether or not we need the lifeguards along Walton County shoreline?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're in the process of working on that, and we are looking at how we can put lifeguards on the beach (INAUDIBLE).

QUESTION: Did this come about because of the shark attack or is this something...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, this has been worked on for the last year.

QUESTION: And where might the hands be tied as far as getting lifeguards? Is it a financial issue?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't think there's ever a financial issue (INAUDIBLE) safety.

QUESTION: If that's the case, why don't we have lifeguards then?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't think that this area realized that there was a need for lifeguards. We've grown rapidly in the last two or three years, beyond anybody's expectation. And once we realized the importance of lifeguards, we started to take a look at it. The first thing we did is look at safety, education and then, after safety, education, we looked at the possibility of having lifeguards.

QUESTION: At this point, what lifeguards do you have on Walton County beaches?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We don't have lifeguards on Walton County Beaches, but we have our sheriff's department that go up and down the beach. And we also have a boat that the sheriff's department just spoke of. It's a rescue boat that drives up and down -- well, rides up and down the beaches, the 26 miles.

QUESTION: How to you make getting lifeguards a reality? Does somebody have to go to the state board? And how much money do you feel it would take, off the top of your head, to successfully staff 26 miles of beach?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, I don't know what the cost of that would be, but I do know that approximately 26 miles of beach, there are things you have to look at, which is private property. People that own (INAUDIBLE) and how would you put lifeguards on someone's personal property, versus public property of that 26 miles of beach. There's probably only seven of those miles that are public access areas.

PHILLIPS: All right. You've been watching a live press conference there out of Florida on the shark attacks that have been taking place. The first one, as you know, two days ago, the 14-year- old young girl that was killed at Miramar Beach after a shark attacked her. And then just today, we got word of another shark attack that happened about 97 miles away from Miramar, in an area called Cape San Blas. A teenage boy, fishing with his friend, apparently using shrimp while fishing. They're saying that might attracted the sharks to come towards them. This young boy was attacked. He's now in critical condition at Bay Medical Center in Panama Beach, Florida.

Now, a number of things to tell you. First of all, the 14-year- old that was killed over the weekend. They have confirmed that it was a six-foot bull shark that attacked her. And, of course, we're talking about 14-year-old Marie Daigle, who was attacked Saturday by that shark. A surfer actually went out to try and rescue her, got her up on his surfboard, brought her back in, but unfortunately, the injuries were just too grim and took her life.

And then today, just within the past hour or so, we got word about this second shark attack of this young boy that was fishing. And they were saying -- there were a number of reporters asking about why this is happening now, why are we seeing two shark attacks not far from each other, Back-to-back, just within a couple of days? One reporter actually getting pretty feisty and really going after Erich Ritter, who is one of the shark experts at the Shark Research Center saying, why is this happening? Why aren't you talking about it more? Really grilling him on specifics to why this is happening now and in this area specifically.

And basically, this shark expert said, look, these are the largest beaches in the world. This is Florida. This is not unusual. Unfortunately, this is the way it is. And just to give you some numbers with regard to shark attacks, between 1990 and 2004, in Florida, there were 322 shark attacks. That's compared to the rest of the United States, 168.

So this shark expert saying, it's because of this area. It's because of -- there are so many beaches. And then the question was asked, could it have been because of the hurricanes wiping out these sandbars that the sharks were able to come in a little closer and possibly get close with these victims? He was not able to confirm that, but that theory is, indeed, out there.

So right now, we are following what seems to be two shark attacks now in Florida. We'll continue to update you as we get more information, specifically about this young boy who is now in critical condition.

Meanwhile, straight ahead on LIVE FROM, we got a number of other stories that we're talking about.

Gitmo under fire. Members of Congress getting a tour of the military prison. Were they satisfied with what they saw? We're going to talk with two representatives who just got back from Gitmo. And record-high oil prices, rising prices at the gas pump. What's fueling it? We're going to talk about it, straight ahead.

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PHILLIPS: Well, the U.S. detention camp in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, is known as Gitmo. But some critics label it the gulag of our time. Amid calls for a new probe of alleged abuse of terror detainees, a group of lawmakers traveled to Cuba to get a first-hand look at Gitmo.

To talk about what they saw, Republican congressman Michael Conaway of Texas and Democratic Congresswoman Ellen Tauscher of California. They join us both live from Washington. A pleasure to have you both.

REP. ELLEN TAUSCHER, (D) CALIFORNIA: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: Congressman Conaway, let's start with you. And just tell me your first impressions from your trip. Unfortunately, we're having a bit of audio problems with the congressman. Congressman, we're going to try and work out your audio situation. I apologize.

Congresswoman Tauscher, let's start with you. And let me get your immediate impressions from what you saw in your visit at Gitmo.

TAUSCHER: Well, what's clear is the Guantanamo Bay prison that I saw Saturday is not the one that I've heard about. It is full of very, very dangerous people, the elite of al Qaeda, close associates of Osama bin Laden. But I think we have to deal with the fact that there are very serious charges about the former Camp X-Ray, the original camp that we had there.

And while the Pentagon has done a let to build the infrastructure to standards of American prisons, for many people that have been there well over three years, we still have not had any prosecutions, and we need to move forward on that. As I said, there are very dangerous people there and they need to be prosecuted. But we have very high standards as American people. We also have well over a million people wearing our uniform around the world, and we have to hold the high standards of the rule of law, in case they should ever be captured by our enemy.

PHILLIPS: So what you saw there at Gitmo, did it look like it was clean? Did it look like detainees were -- and guards were being civil to each other? I mean, what were your impressions?

TAUSCHER: Well, I didn't expect to be taken down there and not see that. And what I did see was that we had dangerous people that are in state-of-the art prisons guarded by very able Americans that have very significant military policing training, that they have humane treatment, that there's no coercive investigations or interrogations. I witnessed three interrogations. But I think that...

PHILLIPS: You said you witnessed...

TAUSCHER: ... we still have to deal with this lingering issue.

PHILLIPS: Let me ask you. You witnessed interrogations?

TAUSCHER: Yes.

PHILLIPS: And what exactly did you get to see? I mean, interrogations are highly classified. So how do you know this wasn't something that was sort of staged for your review?

TAUSCHER: Well, we all have top security clearance, so we can watch interrogations. That's why I'm not telling you specifically what we saw. I didn't get the sense that it was staged, but I was only there for seven hours. But I think what's clear is that the Pentagon understands that it is better to have these relationships built between the interrogators and detainees and to try to use time, as opposed to coercive efforts, to get information. But we need to prosecute these people. Many of them have blood on their hands, American blood on their hands.

PHILLIPS: Did they confess anything as you watched these interrogations? Did you get any interesting information? Did you see any sort of alleged terrorists come forward and admit to any intense crime during these interrogations?

TAUSCHER: No. What we saw was really the treatment that they were getting and the methods and sources that the interrogators were being used to kind of make sure that we understood that dogs weren't being used, that the Koran was not being desecrated, the kinds of typical kind of folklore that's out there about what happened in the past.

But we need a commission, and I hope the president moves forward with that, because we still are operating under the legacy of the accusations, very serious accusations, about Camp X-Ray, which was the original camp down at Guantanamo. And we can't have that be a recruiting poster for jihadists. We need to prosecute these very, very dangerous people and hold them to the rule of law and have a determination for how long they'll be held and what kind of punishment they'll get, as we still attempt to work intelligence out of them.

PHILLIPS: All right, Congresswoman, I understand we got the audio fixed with Congressman Michael Conaway of Texas. Congressman Conaway, can you hear me OK now?

REP. MICHAEL CONAWAY, (R) TEXAS: I can now.

PHILLIPS: OK, I do apologize for that situation there with the audio. We've got you up live. Your impressions. Were you also at Gitmo for seven hours like the congresswoman?

CONAWAY: Yes, we were both on the same trip. It was -- it was a bipartisan trip.

PHILLIPS: Tell me what you observed.

CONAWAY: Well, I observed -- I was an M.P. when I was in the service back in the '70s. What I observed a professional cadre of officers and enlisted people that are doing the job they've been tasked with. They've got two jobs -- one, keep the detainees safe and two, glean from them whatever intelligence may be gathered to help us with the war on terror.

They're being held in facilities that are more than adequate. They're being fed properly. Their healthcare needs are being met in an exemplary manner. And then secondly, the interrogations, I believe, are being conducted according to the standard operating procedures that are in place, the guidelines that are in place for the interrogators to use.

PHILLIPS: Well, that's what I was talking with Congresswoman Tauscher, with regard to interrogations. I mean, these are highly classified -- interrogations are highly classified, and there are things that we just cannot know under military law. So how do you know you were seeing an actual interrogation and did you -- did these detainees release any information that was highly valuable?

CONAWAY: Well, of course, we saw -- I saw four different interrogations. And unlike the TV shows where all of a sudden the accused confesses to all crimes, that's not the way these interrogations work. They are long-term processes where the interrogators begin to try to build up a repoire with the detainees.

PHILLIPS: Did you get a chance to talk to any of the detainees with interpreters?

CONAWAY: No, that's not allowed and that would have been inappropriate to do that. Also, they were not taking pictures of the detainees. That's against the rules, as well. What I did see were two extremes. We saw one detainee who was in an animated conversation with his interrogators. They were laughing, they were cutting up. He was writing information on a board. The other extreme was a detainee who has sat in the same chair for three hours listening to a Harry Potter book being read to him and not saying one word, stared specifically at the wall until the interrogator finished the session. As she left the cell, then he began to stretch and -- as you'd expect. So I don't believe these were staged interrogations at all.

PHILLIPS: Congressman Michael Conaway and Congresswoman Ellen Tauscher. Sorry about the little audio issue there, but evidently, by listening to both of you and getting your details, a far cry from Abu Ghraib or anything close to it.

CONAWAY: Absolutely.

PHILLIPS: We appreciate your time.

CONAWAY: Thank you.

TAUSCHER: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: All right, thank you both. We're going to take a quick break. More LIVE FROM right after this.

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PHILLIPS: This video just in. This is the second shark attack victim that we've been talking to you about today. We just got this video in from our affiliate. The young teenage boy that was fishing out in the Florida waters, not far from where that first attack happened. You can see Bay medical crews -- well, the good sign is, it looks like they're talking to him. He did open up his eyes. I'm trying to see if -- it looks like, yes, he's moving his head, he's moving his eyes.

This is actually pretty awesome to see because this is one of the most important parts of a life-flight or a scenario where you're trying to get a victim under severe trauma to a medical facility and that is the communication process between the medics and the victim. You want to try and keep the victim alert, communicate with them, make sure they're OK, try to keep them calm, because of -- that takes a tremendous impact on the injuries that he or her is suffering.

So, pretty incredible video of that young teenage boy now at Bay Medical Center, we are told, in critical condition now at this point after this shark attack. We're going to continue to follow his condition also -- and also the conditions of the waters and what authorities there are advising, with regard to anybody that is wanting to go into the beaches there along Florida; specifically Miramar Beach and the area where this young boy was attacked, Cape San Blas, just 96 miles from that first attack that happened on Saturday. All right, we'll keep you updated on that young boy's condition.

PHILLIPS: Now, amid speculation over the future of Chief Justice William Rehnquist, the Supreme Court, today, issued a pair of rulings on displaying the Ten Commandments on government property. By a 5-4 vote, the high court ruled that Ten Commandments displays at two Kentucky courthouses are both unconstitutional. The ruling does not bar the commandments, however, from courts altogether, but it mandates a context that doesn't promote religion. In the other decision, the court OKed the Ten Commandments monument displayed at the Texas capitol as a legitimate tribute to legal and religious history.

Joining us, now, from Washington, our legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.

Now, Jeff, I sort of understand it, but I kind of don't understand it. It's a bit of mixed messages going on here, with this decision.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, you have a lot of company in that, Kira. I mean, it may simply be impossible to harmonize these two opinions. Only one justice, Steven Briar, was in the majority in both cases. So, you know, there really is a long- standing split on these kind of issues in the Supreme Court.

But to try to make sense of it, I think the two things you have to think about are: Purpose and context. That, what the court focused on in the Kentucky case, based on the evolution of the Ten Commandments posted in that courthouse, was that, clearly, the purpose was to promote religion. If you saw how they had acted and the different ways they posted the Ten Commandments, the purpose was religious.

The context of the monument in Texas was very much secular. It was not -- it's been there for 40 years, no one complained about it. It's not -- doesn't appear to have an explicitly religious purpose. So, the context there was very different, according to the court. So, that's how they could harmonize one Ten Commandments being not OK, the other being OK.

PHILLIPS: Meanwhile, correct me if I'm wrong, but there at the Supreme Court, where you're standing, isn't there a sculpture of Moses holding the Ten Commandments?

TOOBIN: Absolutely and in fact, Justice Souter, when he was announcing his opinion today in the Kentucky case, said, " well, here in the Supreme Court we have a freeze." It's actually a freeze around the ceiling of the courthouse of Moses holding the Ten Commandments. But he said if you look at the freeze, it's with historic law givers like Hammurabi and all these ancient law givers all throughout history. So, it was not a religious context there, but a historical law-givers purpose. That's what he said. You can believe it or not, if you want. But that's how he justified one Ten Commandments being OK in the Supreme Court.

PHILLIPS: OK. Purpose and context; I'm just figuring out the language I'm going to use the next time I have to convince somebody of something, whether at work or at home, Jeffrey.

TOOBIN: There you go.

PHILLIPS: Purpose and context. OK....

TOOBIN: Well, home is always OK.

PHILLIPS: Yes, that's true.

No replacements announced today. Are you surprised? We've been talk so much about William Rehnquist. Who could fill his shoes?

TOOBIN: Well, you know, it was so dramatic in the court today, because, you know, everybody was looking at the chief justice to see how he looked and frankly, you know, I've seen him a lot in recent months and I thought he looked very sick. His voice was very weak. He is obviously a deeply ill man, but he's not going anywhere and at least for now, although an announcement could come any time, any day.

But I, you know, count me among the surprised. I thought we would get a resignation today but doesn't mean we couldn't get one later today or tomorrow or sometime this summer.

PHILLIPS: You're absolutely right. We'll be on it. Legal Analyst Jeffrey Toobin, live, there, in front of the Supreme Court. Thanks, Jeffrey.

TOOBIN: OK, Kira. See you.

PHILLIPS: Well, Wolf Blitzer will bring you more on today's Supreme Court rulings and the buzz surrounding Chief Justice Rehnquist. That's afternoon on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS," 5:00 p.m. Eastern, 2:00 Pacific.

Well, in financial news: Double, double oil and trouble. Oil prices are setting new records. A barrel of crude has been trading above $60 today and consumer concern is growing as we reach the peak of the summer travel season.

CNN's Susan Lisovicz, live from the New York Stock Exchange with more. Hi, Susan.

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kyra. You know, we've had such a busy news day today, but we have news coming out of New York as well. Oil prices had never closed above $60 a barrel. That is, until today. The New York Mercantile Exchange closed about 20 minutes ago and it looks like we have hit another new record. The price per barrel: $60.40, up 56 cents today.

That means oil prices have soared by more than 60% over the past year. The main culprit continues to be strong global demand, investors worried that there won't be enough oil and gas later, so they are buying now and that's pushing prices higher.

In addition, there are new concerns that already strained relations between Iran and the U.S. could get worse, after Iran elected a nationalistic government over the weekend. Iran, of course, is a major producer of oil and a member of OPEC.

And they are also some reports that Saudi Prince Bandar, a long- time American ally, is set to resign his post as ambassador to the U.S. Oil traders aren't sure how the changing political ties between those countries could affect oil exports. The big rise in crude is being felt at the pump. Gas prices jumped an average of eight cents a gallon, over the past two weeks.

According to the Lundberg Survey, the average retail price for all three grades of gas hit $2.24 a gallon on Friday, but just to keep things in perspective, the American Petroleum Institute says when adjusted for inflation, the average price at the pump in 1981, when we had a very big oil shock, would have been $2.89 a gallon and the average price for a barrel of crude in 1981, again adjusted in today's dollars, would be $75 a barrel. So, at $60 a barrel, it's a record high, but not the worst we've seen and that's what has so many people worried that it's not stopping here -- Kira?

PHILLIPS: All right. Susan Lisovicz, live from the New York Stock Exchange. We'll see you again, the next half hour.

Stay with us. More LIVE FROM, right after this.

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